Is anyone REALLY anti-child-vaccination?

[OUMallen]

:confused:

[Mongo]

uh oh.....

[Mississippi Sooner]

I actually met a woman from Georgia who was. She was 100% convinced that childhood vaccinations were dangerous and hadn't been properly tested.

She worked on an egg farm, so I guess she'd know.

[NormanPride]

This thread is going places.

[The]

http://www.topnews.in/light/files/images/Jenny-McCarthy7.jpg

"But I found out my kid wasn't really autistic, but I was making a butt load of money shilling for this crap that is endangering lives, so I keep it up because no one wants to pay to look at my tits anymore."

[Jammin']

My wife used to teach in a small town in OK and there was a church, I think "First Born" or something that didn't believe in doctors at all. Several very young ladies died in child birth because of it. My wife had to be tested for several weird things while she was pregnant just because she was around them and they hadn't had any vaccinations.

[OUMallen]

I'm not even talking the autism/thimerosal(sp?) thing (which was recently debunked).

I jsut had a convergument on FB with someone that apparently is against them. he was super misinformed (he said the state can't require them prior to enrolling in public school), but then I thought: holy cripes- are there people out there like this??

[My Opinion Matters]

More importantly, is there a genetic test for people that are against childhood vaccination? So they can be aborted?

[DIB]

Is there a vaccination for gayness?

[achiro]

I'm not even talking the autism/thimerosal(sp?) thing (which was recently debunked).

No it wasn't, in fact there have been several things happen recently that seem to be showing more of a link.

I jsut had a convergument on FB with someone that apparently is against them. he was super misinformed (he said the state can't require them prior to enrolling in public school), He's basically right on this in most states

but then I thought: holy cripes- are there people out there like this??

Yes

[Mongo]

and we're off..... :D

[My Opinion Matters]

Is there a vaccination for gayness?

If a gay person is called "fag" at least 1,000,000 times in their life they will stop pretending to not be straight. True story.

[DIB]

If a gay person is called "fag" at least 1,000,000 times in their life they will stop pretending to not be straight. True story.

Can you replace some of the name calling with beatings? What would be the ratio? 1 beating can replace 100 "fags"?

[My Opinion Matters]

Can you replace some of the name calling with beatings? What would be the ratio? 1 beating can replace 100 "fags"?

That sounds about right.

[dynersooner]

neighbor has a littel girl who stopped breathing twice, both times after rec'ing vaccinations.

the first time no one put 2 and 2 together. the 2nd time, they ended vaccines.

so to answer your question, are you coming out of the closet as well???

[OUMallen]

Lancet retracts paper linking vaccine to autism

By Kate Kelland
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, February 3, 2010
The Lancet medical journal formally retracted a paper Tuesday that caused a 12-year international battle over links between autism and the childhood vaccine for measles, mumps and rubella.

The paper, written by British doctor Andrew Wakefield, suggests that the combined shot might be linked to autism and bowel disease.

His assertion, now widely discredited, caused one of the biggest medical rows in a generation and led to a steep drop in vaccinations in the United States, Britain and other parts of Europe, prompting a rise in measles cases.

"It has become clear that several elements of the 1998 paper by Wakefield . . . are incorrect," the British journal said in a statement.






But hey, you guys will be happy to hear that measles is on the rise thanks to the specious autism scare.

[OUMallen]

No it wasn't, in fact there have been several things happen recently that seem to be showing more of a link.
He's basically right on this in most states


Yes

What has happened recently, and it's not that states CAN'T, it would seem. OK does.

[northspeter]

my sister is anti-vaccinations... she's worked in the medical field for 15 plus years... whatever that means...

just fyi... my kid has all her shots...

[Mongo]

This thread is going places.

hell yeah it is:D

[NormanPride]

Next step is for OUDoc to chime in. He's the ONLY person I listen to on threads like this.

[Mongo]

Next step is for OUDoc to chime in. He's the ONLY person I listen to on threads like this.

then Homey...

[DIB]

I would like to hear from Stu. He is an expert on children.

[The]

I would like to hear from Stu. He is an expert on children.

Lawyer up, bro,

[Breadburner]

My dyke neighbor won't allow her dog to be vacinated...

[pphilfran]

A small amount of people don't react well to any medication/vaccination ...

[soonerscuba]

If you listen to what a chiro has to say about your kids vaccine schedule you might as well not get them and just go whole hog on terrible parenting decisions.

[The Maestro]

Me and my wife just try to spread them out for our kids over time...we aren't the biggest fans of the medical community--I trust doctors like I trust mechanics...they have all the knowledge so the more I come in the more they can charge and find **** wrong with me or my family.

But, if you want your kids in public schools, you don't really have much of a choice.

[Viking Kitten]

My wife used to teach in a small town in OK and there was a church, I think "First Born" or something that didn't believe in doctors at all. Several very young ladies died in child birth because of it. My wife had to be tested for several weird things while she was pregnant just because she was around them and they hadn't had any vaccinations.

Was the small town Lahoma? About 10 miles west of Enid? My dad was in his first year as an Enid PD juvenile detective around 1982, that's when he had to assist in the investigation of a family who belonged to that church. It was the case of a little kid who died because his appendix burst and his parents refused to seek medical treatment. My dad always thought it weird that this boy died a horrible, painful death, meanwhile the kid's dad was wearing eye glasses. Eye doctors are hunky dory apparently. I ended up later working at the mall with some members of the church. Their beliefs are just bats**t crazy.

[pphilfran]

Me and my wife just try to spread them out for our kids over time...we aren't the biggest fans of the medical community--I trust doctors like I trust mechanics...they have all the knowledge so the more I come in the more they can charge and find **** wrong with me or my family.

But, if you want your kids in public schools, you don't really have much of a choice.

I would probably do the same thing...I would also try to limit the amount of cocktails, of possible...

[Jammin']

Was the small town Lahoma? About 10 miles west of Enid? My dad was in his first year as an Enid PD juvenile detective around 1982, that's when he had to assist in the investigation of a family who belonged to that church. It was the case of a little kid who died because his appendix burst and his parents refused to seek medical treatment. My dad always thought it weird that this boy died a horrible, painful death, meanwhile the kid's dad was wearing eye glasses. Eye doctors are hunky dory apparently. I ended up later working at the mall with some members of the church. Their beliefs are just bats**t crazy.

Sounds like the same church/situations. It was ripley though.

[soonerchk]

I'm not even talking the autism/thimerosal(sp?) thing (which was recently debunked).

I jsut had a convergument on FB with someone that apparently is against them. he was super misinformed (he said the state can't require them prior to enrolling in public school), but then I thought: holy cripes- are there people out there like this??

Yes. My sister in law's sister has decided that vaccinations do more harm than good and will not be vaccinating her kids. I think the bat poop doesn't fall far from the tree.

[thecynic]

our daughter was 5 weeks premature, so she was little for her age for a long time. At one of the vaccinations the pediatrician said they had a new vaccine to replace one that they had been using, and it had only been out for a few months. We said no. we'll wait. We kind of picked and chose what vaccines we would let them give our kids. Ultimately I'm responsible for my kids health. I don't claim to know more than doctors, but everything they say or know isn't always what's in your best interest. Medicine is always a fluid situation, so we read everything we could about things and tried to make the most informed decision based on what we felt from that.

[StoopTroup]

You were born with all the vaccinations you need but I chose to have the smallpox injection, the oral polio dose and the measles/mumps deal just to make sure.

[Breadburner]

Me and my wife just try to spread them out for our kids over time...we aren't the biggest fans of the medical community--I trust doctors like I trust mechanics...they have all the knowledge so the more I come in the more they can charge and find **** wrong with me or my family.

But, if you want your kids in public schools, you don't really have much of a choice.

You know what you call a guy that graduates last in his class in medical school.........Doctor...:D

[BajaOklahoma]

Every state has a provision for admitting unvaccinated children to public schools. It is a parent's right to refuse to vaccinate their children for religious or other reasons. And there are medical exemptions that can be permanent or shortterm. Proof of disease or a titer showing an acceptable level of antibodies is also accepted in lieu of vaccines for several of the diseases.

In case of a local outbreak of any of the diseases preventable by vaccines, the State/County/City/School District is required to prevent children not vaccinated for that disease from attending school. The length of time varies with each disease. And the way the laws are currently written, the schools are not required to provide homebound services for those kept home for not being vaccinated.

We've rarely had more than 10 students a year with incomplete immunizations, in a population of 450 students.

As for giving a single vaccine at a time, I would be very concerned about the effects of all of the preservatives that entails. My children were immunized with the vaccines available at the time.

[Sooner_Tuf]

I have known several people that were against them. Whether or not they actually vaccinated their kids or not I don't know.

Vici has a large "Church of the First Born" congregation. They don't go to the doctor but I thought the law prohibited them from withholding medical care from their children. I don't know any of them well enough to really say what they are like. But I know on Sunday Mornings that parking lot is full.

[MsProudSooner2]

Church of the First Born has been around for a long time. There was a Church of the First Born congregation near my home town. The childhood mortality rate among Church of the First Born children was very high. They didn't vaccinate or take their children to the doctor. My grandfather owned a funeral home in the area. In the 1940's, he told them that he wasn't going to bury any more children who didn't have to die and invited them to take their business elsewhere.

[ouflak]

I'm against mandated vaccinations, especially those that assume that all of our children will be sexually by the age of ten. But that's probably a separate topic.

I have had my daughter get all of her vaccinations except any flu vaccinations. I consider flu vaccinations a bit of a gimmick and I always know several people during that time of the year who have gotten one, and then promptly been sick for a week or so (perhaps proving that atleast they aren't placebos). I will never let my daughter have a flu vaccination.

[OUMallen]

I'm against mandated vaccinations, especially those that assume that all of our children will be sexually by the age of ten. But that's probably a separate topic.



While I disagree with you, I don't think that's an unreasonable opinion at all. I'm pretty pro-HPV vaccination for the ladies.

[soonerchk]

I can honestly say that I've had all of my shots.




And if you had my job, you would get a flu shot as well. I work with a bunch of sickos.

[jk the sooner fan]

i stood in a long line my first day in the army - and got injected with who knows what

now i have a twitch

i guess i dont get all the "anti-vac" angst - the numbers seem to support that they're fine

[OutlandTrophy]

i stood in a long line my first day in the army - and got injected with who knows what

now i have a twitch

i guess i dont get all the "anti-vac" angst - the numbers seem to support that they're fine

They had the first guy in line wear his hat so they knew when to change out the meds in the air gun. I bet we walked out that back door, around the building, in through the frontdoor and back out the back door a half dozen times that day.

[jk the sooner fan]

They had the first guy in line wear his hat so they knew when to change out the meds in the air gun. I bet we walked out that back door, around the building, in through the frontdoor and back out the back door a half dozen times that day.

:D

they told me not to flinch, so i did just the opposite of what they told me - because if it didnt hurt, why would they warn me

so i got a nice cut from that and a good stream of blood

bleeding in basic training gives you street cred - big time

[OutlandTrophy]

:D

Thos air guns could leave a nice gash. I heard they don't use them anymore, probably for that reason.

[jk the sooner fan]

i do remember my gamma-globulin shot before going to Honduras

imagine a nice cold glob of peanut butter being injected into your *** and then settling there like a hardened tennis ball for a few days

[OutlandTrophy]

yep, everyone had a nice limp for a few days. Those damned Anthrax shots were the freaking worst when we were getting ready for Iraq. Either that or the combo of the other shots we got that day in the armory. My arm was dead for hours.

[jk the sooner fan]

fortunately i never had to get one of those

[Viking Kitten]

I'm against mandated vaccinations, especially those that assume that all of our children will be sexually by the age of ten. But that's probably a separate topic.



I don't believe the HPV vaccine assumes early sexual activity, however for it to be effective, it must be administered BEFORE activity begins and MAY be administered as early as age 9. My 12-year-old got the vaccine with all his other routine pre-middle school vaccinations and so will my daughter when she is old enough.

I look at it this way: What if my daughter does everything right... avoids high school and college sex, gets married a virgin and remains monogamous. Then lets say her husband goes to an insurance convention, gets drunk, has one lapse in judgments, boinks a skank and exposes my daughter to HPV and its potential to cause cervical cancer. Wouldn't we be glad then that we got her a shot at age 12 gives her some degree of protection?

And as far as mandatory vaccinations go, ask someone who works at the state Health Dept. about all the genital warts turning up in the throats of girls who live in many of Oklahoma's small towns.

As far as vaccinations in general, put me firmly in the "pro" camp. Yes, I understand there is always a slight risk of adverse reaction. But statistics tell us there is a far greater risk of getting sick or dying unnecessarily from something horrible like whooping cough or bacterial meningitis. So guess what kiddos? You're getting stuck.

[jk the sooner fan]

every now and then a liberal woman says something fairly eloquently that i agree with

makes me feel icky

[achiro]

Wouldn't we be glad then that we got her a shot at age 12 gives her some degree of protection?
Unless of course she is one of the many that ended up dying, having a severe stroke, or any of the other significant(and well known) side effects to the vaccine.



But statistics tell us there is a far greater risk of getting sick or dying unnecessarily from something horrible like whooping cough or bacterial meningitis.
I'm sorry but this is just not completely true.

[jk the sooner fan]

Unless of course she is one of the many that ended up dying, having a severe stroke, or any of the other significant(and well known) side effects to the vaccine.




how many? what percentage of those vaccinated experience that side effect?

[OutlandTrophy]

I look at it this way: What if my daughter does everything right... avoids high school and college sex, gets married a virgin and remains monogamous. Then lets say her husband goes to an insurance convention, gets drunk, has one lapse in judgments, boinks a skank and exposes my daughter to HPV and its potential to cause cervical cancer. Wouldn't we be glad then that we got her a shot at age 12 gives her some degree of protection?

she could probably just go in for an adjustment to rid her of HPV or cervical cancer!

[jk the sooner fan]

Outland Trophy is ON FIRE today

[soonerchk]

Unless of course she is one of the many that ended up dying, having a severe stroke, or any of the other significant(and well known) side effects to the vaccine.



I'm sorry but this is just not completely true.

What well known side effects? I haven't heard of any, nor do I know anyone who has had any side effects.

[My Opinion Matters]

What well known side effects? I haven't heard of any, nor do I know anyone who has had any side effects.

Are you sure they're not dead and you just haven't noticed?

[OUMallen]

I look at it this way: What if my daughter does everything right... avoids high school and college sex, gets married a virgin and remains monogamous. Then lets say her husband goes to an insurance convention, gets drunk, has one lapse in judgments, boinks a skank and exposes my daughter to HPV and its potential to cause cervical cancer. Wouldn't we be glad then that we got her a shot at age 12 gives her some degree of protection?



How common are HPV and related diseases?
HPV (the virus). Approximately 20 million Americans are currently infected with HPV. Another 6 million people become newly infected each year. HPV is so common that at least 50% of sexually active men and women get it at some point in their lives.





So really, all it takes is for your little girl to marry a dude that slept with one person before her for there to be a STRONG chance that he's HPV carrying. It's much, much, MUCH more likely. And really, almost a statistical certainty in this day and age unless both partners are virgins.


That's why I'm pretty pro-HPV vaccine for the ladies. They will almost certainly be exposed to it at some point unless they are as chaste as the day is long.

[OUMallen]

Unless of course she is one of the many that ended up dying, having a severe stroke, or any of the other significant(and well known) side effects to the vaccine.




Do tell.



HPV--Cervarix vaccine side-effects
(Human Papillomavirus Cervarix vaccine)
What are the risks from HPV--Cervarix vaccine?

The HPV Cervarix® vaccine has been in use around the world for several years and has been very safe.

However, any medicine could possibly cause a serious problem, such as a severe allergic reaction. The risk of any vaccine causing a serious injury, or death, is extremely small.

Life-threatening allergic reactions from vaccines are very rare. If they do occur, it would be within a few minutes to a few hours after the vaccination.

Several mild to moderate problems are known to occur with this HPV vaccine. These do not last long and go away on their own.

Reactions where the shot was given
Pain (about 9 people in 10)
Redness or swelling (about 1 person in 2)
Other mild reactions
Fever of 99.5 or higher degrees Fahrenheit (about 1 person in 8)
Headache or fatigue (about 1 person in 2)
Nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, or abdominal pain (about 1 person in 4)
Muscle or joint pain (up to 1 person in 2)
Fainting
Brief fainting spells and related symptoms (such as jerking movements) can happen after any medical procedure, including vaccination. Sitting or lying down for about 15 minutes after a vaccination can help prevent fainting and injuries caused by falls. Tell your doctor if the patient feels dizzy or light-headed, or has vision changes or ringing in the ears.
Like all vaccines, HPV vaccines will continue to be monitored for unusual or severe problems.

This information was taken directly from the HPV-Cervarix VIS [PDF - 60KB]
(This information taken from HPV VIS dated 5/3/11. If the actual VIS is more recent than this date, the information on this page needs to be updated.)



HPV--Gardasil vaccine side-effects
(Human Papillomavirus Gardasil vaccine)
What are the risks from HPV--Gardasil vaccine?

The HPV-Gardasil® vaccine has been used in the U.S. and around the world for several years and has been very safe.

However, any medicine could possibly cause a serious problem, such as a severe allergic reaction. The risk of any vaccine causing a serious injury, or death, is extremely small.

Life-threatening allergic reactions from vaccines are very rare. If they do occur, it would be within a few minutes to a few hours after the vaccination.

Several mild to moderate problems are known to occur with this HPV vaccine. These do not last long and go away on their own.

Reactions in the arm where the shot was given
Pain (about 8 people in 10)
Redness or swelling (about 1 person in 4)
Fever
Mild (100° F) (about 1 person in 10)
Moderate (102° F) (about 1 person in 65)
Other problems
Headache (about 1 person in 3)
Fainting. Brief fainting spells and related symptoms (such as jerking movements) can happen after any medical procedure, including vaccination. Sitting or lying down for about 15 minutes after a vaccination can help prevent fainting and injuries caused by falls. Tell your doctor if the
patient feels dizzy or light-headed, or has vision changes or ringing in the ears.
Like all vaccines, HPV vaccines will continue to be monitored for unusual or severe problems.

This information was taken directly from the HPV-Gardasil VIS [PDF - 65KB]
(This information taken from HPV VIS dated 5/3/11. If the actual VIS is more recent than this date,

[soonerchk]

Are you sure they're not dead and you just haven't noticed?

Good question. Let me go check the passenger seat and I'll get back to you.

[Viking Kitten]

Unless of course she is one of the many that ended up dying, having a severe stroke, or any of the other significant(and well known) side effects to the vaccine.

***

I'm sorry but this is just not completely true.

Sorry dude. The medical and research community says it is. Why should I believe you over them?

[The]

Sorry dude. The medical and research community says it is. Why should I believe you over them?

Because Jesus. That's why.

[achiro]

Sorry dude. The medical and research community says it is.
You're talking about the ones that are the 3rd leading cause of death in our country? Yeah, I thought those were the ones you were talking about.


Why should I believe you over them?
You shouldn't believe anyone over anyone else. What you should do is become informed about the topics and not just be a lemming.

[OutlandTrophy]

You're talking about the ones that are the 3rd leading cause of death in our country? Yeah, I thought those were the ones you were talking about.


You shouldn't believe anyone over anyone else. What you should do is become informed about the topics and not just be a lemming.

Could you maybe give us a link to go to to read up on the things you are talking about?

[OhU1]

Could you maybe give us a link to go to to read up on the things you are talking about?

Try tinfoilhat.com

[jk the sooner fan]

Try tinfoilhat.com

or chirosknowbest.com

[OUMallen]

or chirosknowbest.com

or occamsrazorisalie.com

(Too far of a reach?)

[Jacie]

Could you maybe give us a link to go to to read up on the things you are talking about?

Does this help?

http://www.cervicalcancercampaign.org/ccfacts/vaccine.html

[soonerinabilene]

Im taking the word of a back popping google reader over my kids 35 year of experience pediatrician immediately. We dont even need doctors anymore. Ill just read webmd and keep stocked up on gauze

[Mongo]

hey NP!!!! this thread is awesome and went just like we thought it would:D

[My Opinion Matters]

While you jokers are in this thread making light of it, another several million children have died as an (unwanted?) side effect of vaccinations. Some are walking around right now without even realizing they're dead.

[The]

While you jokers are in this thread making light of it, another several million children have died as an (unwanted?) side effect of vaccinations. Some are walking around right now without even realizing they're dead.

Oh gawd, vacci-zombies.

[picasso]

While you jokers are in this thread making light of it, another several million children have died as an (unwanted?) side effect of vaccinations. Some are walking around right now without even realizing they're dead.

Hey, don't give your kids shots if you don't want to.

Reminds me of folks who think they got the flu from flu shots.

[My Opinion Matters]

Oh gawd, vacci-zombies.

What if, like, we're all zombies?

[The]

Hey, don't give your kids shots if you don't want to.

Reminds me of folks who think they got the flu from flu shots.


You do get the flu from flu shots. That's kinda what it is...

[soonerchk]

While you jokers are in this thread making light of it, another several million children have died as an (unwanted?) side effect of vaccinations. Some are walking around right now without even realizing they're dead.

If they've been injured or killed as a result of their vaccination, then I've got just the lawyer for them

[picasso]

You do get the flu from flu shots. That's kinda what it is...

You're brilliant.

[Mongo]

Hey, don't give your kids shots if you don't want to.

Reminds me of folks who think they got the flu from flu shots.

I will give your finger painting *** a knuckle sammich if you talk bad about that group:D

[My Opinion Matters]

Hey, don't give your kids shots if you don't want to.

Reminds me of folks who think they got the flu from flu shots.

http://i51.tinypic.com/2rqived.jpg

[jk the sooner fan]

You do get the flu from flu shots. That's kinda what it is...

umm no, you dont - its not a live virus

[My Opinion Matters]

umm no, you dont - its not a live virus

If you want a live virus, PM ME.

SRSLY, pm me.

[The]

umm no, you dont - its not a live virus

It's still the flu, Mister Mister.

[achiro]

Could you maybe give us a link to go to to read up on the things you are talking about?

http://jama.ama-assn.org/

[OUMallen]

http://jama.ama-assn.org/

You peruse JAMA in your spare time?

OK, is there a specific article or.... :confused:

[achiro]

BTW, I like how everyone likes to just start with the attacks. Find anything I have said and prove me wrong. Problem is, you can't and so you call me names. Whatever.

[Fraggle145]

umm no, you dont - its not a live virus

I'm not sure about the flu, but in some cases. Ya it is. Its just a "weakened" for lack of a better term virus. At least I think they still do that.

[Mongo]

BTW, I like how everyone likes to just start with the attacks. Find anything I have said and prove me wrong. Problem is, you can't and so you call me names. Whatever.

I have not attacked you one bit. I keep my opinions about your voodoo/witchcraft stuff to myself:D

[The]

BTW, I like how everyone likes to just start with the attacks. Find anything I have said and prove me wrong. Problem is, you can't and so you call me names. Whatever.


I'd tell you but we're not in a locker room. Besides, it might ruin my chances of being POTUS some day.:D

I have proof that you were indeed in a locker room.

[Fraggle145]

BTW, I like how everyone likes to just start with the attacks. Find anything I have said and prove me wrong. Problem is, you can't and so you call me names. Whatever.

Other people in this thread on the other side have been providing a lot more directly linked evidence than you have. Just sayin'

Also I didnt see anyone call you names? :confused:

[achiro]

You peruse JAMA in your spare time?

Yes I do. That's the point here. People can call me names, make fun of chiropractic all they want, whatever but the point I am making is that I'm willing to bet that I'm the only one thats posted in this thread that has spent any time at all with my head in medical journals.

OK, is there a specific article or.... :confused:

He wanted a link to read up on the things I'm talking about, thats one of them.

[achiro]

Other people in this thread on the other side have been providing a lot more directly linked evidence than you have. Just sayin'

Also I didnt see anyone call you names? :confused:

But unless I missed it, none of those dispute anything I've said.

[OUMallen]

Yes I do. That's the point here. People can call me names, make fun of chiropractic all they want, whatever but the point I am making is that I'm willing to bet that I'm the only one thats posted in this thread that has spent any time at all with my head in medical journals.


He wanted a link to read up on the things I'm talking about, thats one of them.

Well, I can't just link to the Bible next time we're having a religious discussion. A direct link to something that bolsters your posts would be helpful.

[saucysoonergal]

Achiro needs a dip-tet shot stat!

[achiro]

What well known side effects? I haven't heard of any, nor do I know anyone who has had any side effects.

Well, I can't just link to the Bible next time we're having a religious discussion. A direct link to something that bolsters your posts would be helpful.

Directly from the CDC:

As of June 22, 2011 there have been a total 68 VAERS reports of death among those who have received Gardasil® . There were 54 reports among females, 3 were among males, and 11 were reports of unknown gender.
It is also very well documented that VAERS numbers are low due to lack of reporting from the hospitals/doctors.

[OutlandTrophy]

But unless I missed it, none of those dispute anything I've said.

What if I posted that in your 20s you liked to experiment with hobosexuality?

What would you post to dispute that?

That's an extreme way to say that since you're posting claims that are against the norm that it's not unreasonable to ask for some factual substance to back up your claims.

[OutlandTrophy]

Directly from the CDC:

It is also very well documented that VAERS numbers are low due to lack of reporting from the hospitals/doctors.

from the CDC

In 2007 (the most recent year numbers are available)—

12,280 women in the United States were diagnosed with cervical cancer.*2
4,021 women in the United States died from cervical cancer.*2


http://www.cdc.gov/cancer/cervical/statistics/

[OutlandTrophy]

from the CDC

How many adverse events have been reported to VAERS in people who have gotten the HPV vaccine?
Gardasil: As of February 14, 2011, approximately 33 million doses of Gardasil were distributed in the U.S. Since February 14, 2011, VAERS received a total of 18,354 reports of adverse events following Gardasil vaccination in the U.S. Of these reports, 92% were reports of events considered to be non-serious, and 8% were reports of events considered serious.*

Cervarix: Additionally, VAERS has received 12 adverse event reports (all non-serious) occurring in the U.S. following vaccination with Cervarix.



http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Vaccines/HPV/hpv_faqs.html

[OutlandTrophy]

What sorts of serious adverse events have been reported?
Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS), which is a rare disorder that causes muscle weakness, has been reported. To date, there is no evidence that Gardasil has increased the rate of GBS above that expected in the population.

People have reported blood clots after getting Gardasil. These clots have occurred in the heart, lungs, and legs. Most of these people had a risk of getting blood clots, such as taking oral contraceptives (the birth control pill).

Fifty six deaths in the U.S. have been reported to VAERS as of September 30, 2010. Each of these deaths has been reviewed and there was not a common pattern to the deaths that would suggest they were caused by the vaccine. In cases where there was an autopsy, death certificate, or medical records, the cause of death was explained by factors other than the vaccine. Some reported causes of death received to date include illicit drug use, diabetes, viral illness, and heart failure.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Vaccines/HPV/hpv_faqs.html

[SpankyNek]

Directly from the CDC:

It is also very well documented that VAERS numbers are low due to lack of reporting from the hospitals/doctors.

Those numbers given by the CDC do not claim that Gardasil was the CAUSE of their death...is that somewhere else in the information you got that quotation from.

Anaphylaxis would be the likely culprit if so, and there are plenty of people that are allergic to many things.

[Viking Kitten]

Directly from the CDC:

It is also very well documented that VAERS numbers are low due to lack of reporting from the hospitals/doctors.

Among how many who received the shot, and of those, how many will not die of cervical cancer because they received the shot?

From the American Academy of Pediatrics: (http://www.aap.org/immunization/families/VaccineSafety_parenthandout.pdf)


Vaccines save lives and protect against the spread of disease. If you decide not to immunize your child, you put your child at risk. Your child could catch a disease that is dangerous or deadly. Getting vaccinated is much better than getting the disease.No one called you any names, even though you are comfortable tossing around words like "lemming." Please don't for one second make the assumption I don't take my kids' health seriously.

[OutlandTrophy]

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Vaccines/HPV/jama.html


The study's main findings include the following:
More than 23 million doses were administered nationally since the HPV vaccine was licensed in June 2006. There were a total of 12,424 reports to VAERS of adverse events following HPV vaccination through December 2008.
Since the HPV vaccine was approved, the vast majority (94%) of adverse events reported to VAERS after receiving this vaccine have not been serious. An adverse event is considered serious if it is life threatening, or results in death, permanent disability, abnormal conditions at birth, hospitalization or prolonged hospitalization.
The most common events reported were:
Syncope (or fainting)–common after need injections, especially in pre-teens and teens
Local reactions at the site of immunization (pain and redness)
Dizziness
Nausea
Headache
Of the 12,424 reports of adverse events, 772 (6% of all reports) described serious adverse events, including 32 reports of deaths.
The 32 death reports were reviewed and there as no common pattern to the deaths that would suggest they were caused by the vaccine. In cases where there was an autopsy, death certificate, or medical records, the cause of death could be explained by factors other than the vaccine. Some causes of death determined to date include diabetes, viral illness, illicit drug use, and heart failure.
There were two reports of unusual neurological illness (per autopsy, probable variants of Amytrophic Lateral Sclerosis (ALS) often referred to as “Lou Gehrig's Disease”) that resulted in the death of two young females. There is no current evidence suggesting that the HPV vaccine caused these illnesses, but researchers from several highly regarded academic centers are studying the cases.
There was increased reporting of syncope and pulmonary emboli (blood clots of the lungs) compared with what has been found for other vaccines given to females of the same age. Of the people who had blood clots 90% had a known risk factor for blood clots, such as taking oral contraceptives (birth control pills). VAERS reports cannot prove the vaccine caused the adverse event in women with these risk factors. However, this finding needs further investigation.

[SpankyNek]

Outland beat me to it.

[saucysoonergal]

You gotta get that baby his dip-tet!

[jk the sooner fan]

I'm not sure about the flu, but in some cases. Ya it is. Its just a "weakened" for lack of a better term virus. At least I think they still do that.

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/keyfacts.htm


The “flu shot” — an inactivated vaccine (containing killed virus) that is given with a needle, usually in the arm. The flu shot is approved for use in people older than 6 months, including healthy people and people with chronic medical conditions.

[Viking Kitten]

"You hear that Hi? We gotta get the baby his dip tet!"

[OutlandTrophy]

Sooooooo 0.05401% of the people that have recieved the shot have had an adverse reaction to it.

[jk the sooner fan]

somebody has their head buried in the wrong journal

[I Am Right]

There are a bunch of em!

[OUMallen]

Sooooooo 0.05401% of the people that have recieved the shot have had an adverse reaction to it.

Compared to numbers that range from 50% to 75% of all people having HPV, which makes it practically a statistical certainty that any girl that doesn't marry a virgin will be exposed at some point.

[jk the sooner fan]

Sooooooo 0.05401% of the people that have recieved the shot have had an adverse reaction to it.

that seems to be an awfully low % to be the third leading cause of deaths

[OutlandTrophy]

Compared to numbers that range from 50% to 75% of all people having HPV, which makes it practically a statistical certainty that any girl that doesn't marry a virgin will be exposed at some point.

when you talk like that it kinds makes me want to expose you

[Mississippi Sooner]

Is dip-tet a marinating sauce?

[soonerchk]

I am anti-child-dying-needlessly-from-a-disease-that-is-preventable

[The]

I am anti-child-dying-needlessly-from-a-disease-that-is-preventable

But Jesus.

[DIB]

I am anti-child-dying-needlessly-from-a-disease-that-is-preventable

Quit trying to push your lifestyle choice on good, God-fearing 'Mericans.

[picasso]

I'm not sure about the flu, but in some cases. Ya it is. Its just a "weakened" for lack of a better term virus. At least I think they still do that.

You get some symptoms but you don't actually get the flu of the day.

So, you don't get the flu from a flu shot.:)

[Mississippi Sooner]

You want a good case of flu-like symptoms without having the flu? Who doesn't, really? Just give yourself and injection of Interferon, the old Hepatitis C drug. For anywhere from 6 - 10 hours you'll be shaking like a dog ****ting a peach seed.

[Mongo]

you'll be shaking like a dog ****ting a peach seed.

holy **** that is awesome:D

[soonerchk]

But Jesus.


Quit trying to push your lifestyle choice on good, God-fearing 'Mericans.

Jesus helps those who help themselves instead of sitting around whining.

Merica, **** yeah.

[Mongo]

Jesus helps those who help themselves instead of sitting around whining.

Merica, **** yeah.

does he help people who poop peach seeds?

[soonerchk]

does he help people who poop peach seeds?

Only if they know that peaches have pits, not seeds.

[NormanPride]

:les: THE PIT IS THE SEED!!

[soonerchk]

:les: THE PIT IS THE SEED!!

Which sounds worse - pooping a seed or pooping a pit????? More importantly, which one gives you a better visual when you think of a dog pooping it?

[SpankyNek]

Which sounds worse - pooping a seed or pooping a pit????? More importantly, which one gives you a better visual when you think of a dog pooping it?

I think the seed is actually located within the pit.

[soonerchk]

I think the seed is actually located within the pit.

THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE VISUALS!!!!!!!

[Mississippi Sooner]

I think the seed is actually located within the pit.

Therefore, if he's pooping a pit, he's still pooping a seed.

I think.

[achiro]

Compared to numbers that range from 50% to 75% of all people having HPV, which makes it practically a statistical certainty that any girl that doesn't marry a virgin will be exposed at some point.

The numbers are something like 12,000 may contract cancer correlated to HPV and 4,000 may die from that.
Those are certainly still scary numbers, I've never argued that, but the idea of giving a 9 year old a vaccine that has a chance of killing her for an std doesn't seem asinine to anyone else?

[achiro]

Sooooooo 0.05401% of the people that have recieved the shot have had an adverse reaction to it.

Would that number matter to you if it were your 9 year old daughter that died?

[soonerchk]

The numbers are something like 12,000 may contract cancer correlated to HPV and 4,000 may die from that.
Those are certainly still scary numbers, I've never argued that, but the idea of giving a 9 year old a vaccine that has a chance of killing her for an std doesn't seem asinine to anyone else?

Leaving the house has a chance of killing you. So no, I think it's a reasonable precaution.

[SpankyNek]

The numbers are something like 12,000 may contract cancer correlated to HPV and 4,000 may die from that.
Those are certainly still scary numbers, I've never argued that, but the idea of giving a 9 year old a vaccine that has a chance of killing her for an std doesn't seem asinine to anyone else?

If the vaccine is, at all, more effective at that age, then it would be asinine to wait to do it.

[achiro]

somebody has their head buried in the wrong journal
JAMA is a good one, I also never said it was the only one I read. :rolleyes:

that seems to be an awfully low % to be the third leading cause of deaths
Yeah, I never said that the vaccination was the 3rd leading cause of death. To think I said that is just stupid.

[achiro]

If the vaccine is, at all, more effective at that age, then it would be asinine to wait to do it.

It's not any more effective at 9 than it is at 29.

[NormanPride]

Would that number matter to you if it were your 9 year old daughter that died?
Not if she died of something unrelated to the vaccine, like the CDC states. Then I would be mad at whatever the cause of death was.

[Viking Kitten]

As has been repeatedly pointed out, the vaccination has to be given BEFORE any sexual contact happens, to a child who will almost certainly have sex at SOME point in their lives. Kinda seems like a no brainer.

Tell you what. You take whatever chances you want with YOUR kids' health. I'll take my chances with the 0.00whatever percent chance that there may be an adverse reaction that may or may or be directly attributable to the vaccination.

You'll think I'm being stupid, I'll think you're being stupid and we'll be even. (But my kid won't get HPV.)

[OUMallen]

The numbers are something like 12,000 may contract cancer correlated to HPV and 4,000 may die from that.
Those are certainly still scary numbers, I've never argued that, but the idea of giving a 9 year old a vaccine that has a chance of killing her for an std doesn't seem asinine to anyone else?

Oh, yeah, and genital warts too, and they spread it to whomever every time they spread their legs. All preventable.


We all just think you're asinine because you think 0.05% of a chance of an adverse reaction (NOT death, just reaction) is worth almost ensuring that your little girl will get HPV, possibly warts, possibly cancer.

And then when they can't link death to the vaccine in any meaningful way, 0.05% isn't a chance at all. Do you let your little girl out of her bubble to get in a car or fly in a plane? :pop:

[soonerchk]

It's not any more effective at 9 than it is at 29.

Well that's true if she either has sex at 8 or is a virgin at 29.

[Fraggle145]

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/keyfacts.htm

Cool so they use dead ones for the flu. Maybe I was just talking out my ***, but I thought that remembered for some vaccines that they dont use completely killed virus. Maybe that was an old-timey thing that went by the wayside.

[Fraggle145]

You get some symptoms but you don't actually get the flu of the day.

So, you don't get the flu from a flu shot.:)

Right.

[achiro]

Leaving the house has a chance of killing you. So no, I think it's a reasonable precaution.

Fine, if you have weighed the risks and that is your decision, I have no issue with it. You are the only one that can make those decision for your child. If the child has a vaccine related problem, you are the one that has to live with it. The only thing I want is that people are informed on what can happen. You yourself have already said in this thread that you didn't know about any side effects to the HPV vaccine. That tells me that nobody ever told you. If you have had the vaccine without knowing then that is a problem.

[SpankyNek]

It's not any more effective at 9 than it is at 29.

But it is also no more "harmful" at 9 than at 29, right?

I don't think my daughter will be "active" at 10, but if something in the worst-case-scenario were to happen, beyond her will/ability to control, I would be thankful that she might have one less thing to worry about later in life.

Are you worried that it is being pushed as some sort of "intercourse license?"

[soonerchk]

Fine, if you have weighed the risks and that is your decision, I have no issue with it. You are the only one that can make those decision for your child. If the child has a vaccine related problem, you are the one that has to live with it. The only thing I want is that people are informed on what can happen. You yourself have already said in this thread that you didn't know about any side effects to the HPV vaccine. That tells me that nobody ever told you. If you have had the vaccine without knowing then that is a problem.

I am quite careless with my health and the health of those around me.

[jk the sooner fan]

You're talking about the ones that are the 3rd leading cause of death in our country? Yeah, I thought those were the ones you were talking about.


You shouldn't believe anyone over anyone else. What you should do is become informed about the topics and not just be a lemming.

i could have sworn i read 3rd leading cause of death in one of your posts..

[OutlandTrophy]

Would that number matter to you if it were your 9 year old daughter that died?

so your plan is to just outlive your kid?

32 people that have died since 2006 from possible complications from the vaccine but 4,021 women that died from cervical cancer in 2010.

You can agree with those numbers can't you?

I'm not the smartest guy in the room unless I'm the only one in it but I think I'd rather my kid be in the group where only 32 kids possibly died because of the vaccine in 5 years as opposed to the 20,105 that died because they didn't get the vaccine in the same period.

[achiro]

Not if she died of something unrelated to the vaccine, like the CDC states. Then I would be mad at whatever the cause of death was.

So an otherwise healthy 9 year old gets the vaccine and dies 3 days later, was the death related or not? Your call.
Guess what, that's pretty much how the cdc gets their info.

[OutlandTrophy]

32< 20,105

FYI

[soonerchk]

i could have sworn i read 3rd leading cause of death in one of your posts..

I remember that as well. We are obviously blind or memory impaired from vaccines.

[OutlandTrophy]

I think he meant that real doctors are the 3rd leading cause of death in the US.

[soonerchk]

You're talking about the ones that are the 3rd leading cause of death in our country? Yeah, I thought those were the ones you were talking about.


You shouldn't believe anyone over anyone else. What you should do is become informed about the topics and not just be a lemming.

oh hai, here it is!!!

[OUMallen]

Fine, if you have weighed the risks and that is your decision, I have no issue with it. You are the only one that can make those decision for your child. If the child has a vaccine related problem, you are the one that has to live with it. The only thing I want is that people are informed on what can happen. You yourself have already said in this thread that you didn't know about any side effects to the HPV vaccine. That tells me that nobody ever told you. If you have had the vaccine without knowing then that is a problem.

This assumes that there's a realistic chance of severe problems with the vaccine, but the government just doesn't care and promotes its use anyway.

It's a CONSPIRACY!

[The]

DON'T GIVE UP ACHIRO! YOU'VE GOT 'EM ON THE ROPES NOW!

[NormanPride]

So an otherwise healthy 9 year old gets the vaccine and dies 3 days later, was the death related or not? Your call.
Guess what, that's pretty much how the cdc gets their info.
They were all 9? Every single one? All the whole 32 deaths over five years were 9 year olds and not older people with other health problems? And all of these nine year olds were pictures of perfect health?

This is utterly ridiculous.

[NormanPride]

oh hai, here it is!!!
To be fair, I think this was a reply to VK's mentioning of vaccines for whooping cough and stuff. Hold on, I'll find it.

Edit: Here it is:


But statistics tell us there is a far greater risk of getting sick or dying unnecessarily from something horrible like whooping cough or bacterial meningitis.

[soonerchk]

They were all 9? Every single one? All the whole 32 deaths over five years were 9 year olds and not older people with other health problems? And all of these nine year olds were pictures of perfect health?

This is utterly ridiculous.

Ignore the part where it mentions underlying health problems and/or illicit drug use in those that died. Completely irrelevant!!!




Difference between illicit drug use and illegal drug use? Bueller?

[dynersooner]

DON'T GIVE UP ACHIRO! YOU'VE GOT 'EM ON THE ROPES NOW!

AAAAAAAAACHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOO!!!

[NormanPride]

Ignore the part where it mentions underlying health problems and/or illicit drug use in those that died. Completely irrelevant!!!




Difference between illicit drug use and illegal drug use? Bueller?
Yeah, that's the thing. Even if it was all healthy 9 year olds that mysteriously died three days after getting the vaccine... There's only 32 of them over 5 years. That's less than are killed by vending machines, I think.

[achiro]

Yeah, that's the thing. Even if it was all healthy 9 year olds that mysteriously died three days after getting the vaccine... There's only 32 of them over 5 years. That's less than are killed by vending machines, I think.

You keep saying 32. The CDC says 68 so you are eliminating the ones that didn't come in with a name? Remember that VEARS data is provided by doctors so I have a real problem with you trying to eliminate the other 36.
Also the FDA has said that doctors under report adverse vaccine reactions by more than 90%. The number of deaths is much higher than 32.

[soonerchk]

You keep saying 32. The CDC says 68 so you are eliminating the ones that didn't come in with a name? Remember that VEARS data is provided by doctors so I have a real problem with you trying to eliminate the other 36.
Also the FDA has said that doctors under report adverse vaccine reactions by more than 90%. The number of deaths is much higher than 32.

An adverse reaction can be something as simple as soreness or redness at the injection site. I'm sure that is underreported, because what kind of ninny is going to call their doctor because they have an owie where they got a shot?


I'm going to the other thread and see if I can get The naked. NP, OT - take over for me. I would leave VK in charge but she wandered off.

[NormanPride]

You keep saying 32. The CDC says 68 so you are eliminating the ones that didn't come in with a name? Remember that VEARS data is provided by doctors so I have a real problem with you trying to eliminate the other 36.
Also the FDA has said that doctors under report adverse vaccine reactions by more than 90%. The number of deaths is much higher than 32.
God forbid we forget the other 36 druggies that ODed after getting ther HPV vaccine. I'm done here, you've got nothing.

[achiro]

God forbid we forget the other 36 druggies that ODed after getting ther HPV vaccine.
That's a hell of a stretch.

I'm done here, you've got nothing.
I'm not sure what you want exactly. I've had a pretty busy day here at the office and spending time going through my research articles and typing them up just for you...well, just not going to happen. I'm also not real sure how we got so focused on one specific vaccine instead of the whole idea of vaccinations in general. A few points you have to think about with vaccines.

1. Do the benefits outweigh the risks? Most of you seem to think they do, that's what we've all been told...for years. The problem is not one study has ever been done comparing vaccinated/non-vaccinated. I've got studies that suggest a higher rate of the diseases after mass vaccinations started. Also, many of the vaccines don't seem to really work. In one group that had a pertussis outbreak, 98% had been vaccinated against it. In two separate measles outbreaks, 99% of the victims had been vaccinated. Basically, you take the risk with no benefit.
Regarding Gardasil(the HPV vaccine), from the New England Journal of Med:
"Despite great expectations and promising results of clinical trials, we still lack sufficient evidence of an effective vaccine against cervical cancer. Several strains of human papillomavirus (HPV) can cause cervical cancer, and two vaccines directed against the currently most important oncogenic strains (i.e., the HPV-16 and HPV-18 serotypes) have been developed. That is the good news. The bad news is that the overall effect of the vaccines on cervical cancer remains unknown. As Kim and Goldie1 point out in this issue of the Journal, the real impact of HPV vaccination on cervical cancer will not be observable for decades."
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe0804638
It states this in the article above but did you know that most HPV infections are cleared up by your own immune system? Do we really know what the vaccine does to our natural immunity? I'll answer that, nope!
A decent blog refering to the New England JoM listed above to make you think about a few more things:
http://www.wallstreetweather.net/2008/08/mercks-gardasil-risky-and-unneeded.html
Continued later(maybe);)

[OutlandTrophy]

You keep saying 32. The CDC says 68 so you are eliminating the ones that didn't come in with a name? Remember that VEARS data is provided by doctors so I have a real problem with you trying to eliminate the other 36.
Also the FDA has said that doctors under report adverse vaccine reactions by more than 90%. The number of deaths is much higher than 32.

the CDC says 32, as shown in the links I have provided. Please provide data that says otherwise.

Even if your number of 68 is true and one tenth of the real number, would you agree with me that 680 is much smaller than 20,105?

20,105 being the number of women that have died from cervical cancer per the CDC link I have provided?

Would you agree with me that if 68 was the actual number and it only represented 1% of the real number of deaths caused by the vaccine that 6800 is a smaller number than 20,105?

Thank you,

[achiro]

the CDC says 32, as shown in the links I have provided. Please provide data that says otherwise.

Even if your number of 68 is true and one tenth of the real number, would you agree with me that 680 is much smaller than 20,105?

20,105 being the number of women that have died from cervical cancer per the CDC link I have provided?

Would you agree with me that if 68 was the actual number and it only represented 1% of the real number of deaths caused by the vaccine that 6800 is a smaller number than 20,105?

Thank you,
Your argument would have more validity if you could show me proof that the 20,000 number would go away with mass vaccinations. The problem is that you can't because it's not there.