Why Oklahoma roads suck

[badger]

They transfer gas tax funds to other areas.

link (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=336&articleid=20110621_336_0_OKLAHO853886)


An attorney for the state said the transfer of just more than $100 million from a state transportation fund that was used to help balance Oklahoma's state budget this year is "perfectly constitutional" and that he expects the state Supreme Court will agree.

I know that the state has other priorities right now other than keeping our cars in one piece as they traverse the potholes, but I wonder if this lawsuit has any chance of success and what the consequences for that might be.

[OhU1]

It's all a big shell game right now.

[NormanPride]

Well if they don't divert the funds from there then something else takes a hit. Which would you rather it be?

[Position Limit]

i almost went "falling down" on 3 road workers today at forest & utica ave. in tulsa. these idiots held me and a long line of cars up through 5 redlight cycles to move a goddamn truck. they had zero idea what they were doing. i'm not sure more horn is working properly anymore. retards. made me late. seems like every other road in tulsa has been under construction forever.

[NormanPride]

I try to have patience for the workers themselves. It's not their fault that the projects are horribly mismanaged.

[yankee]

Oklahoma roads are right near the top of my sucky things about Oklahoma list. Quite a long list I might add!

[delhalew]

I see your point badge, but I am in Louisiana...so I would blow a DOT for an Oklahoma road at this moment.

[Position Limit]

I try to have patience for the workers themselves. It's not their fault that the projects are horribly mismanaged.

i usually do, but this was 3 stooges road work crew. i cant even describe what i sat through.

[pphilfran]

If I am using this thing correctly Oklahoma received 538 million in recovery funds to be used in transportation related projects...freed up money to use in other areas...smart move...

http://www.recovery.gov/Transparency/Pages/DataExplorer.aspx?bk=42dc6109-514b-4c8c-ac9f-20a29c55cac3&t=RnVuZHMgQXdhcmRlZCBieSBTdGF0ZSBieSBDYXRlZ29yeQ==

[87sooner]

i'm not sure diverting funds is the only problem...

hwy 412 east of enid has to be resurfaced every 5 years....why?
shouldn't roads last longer than that?

[delhalew]

i'm not sure diverting funds is the only problem...

hwy 412 east of enid has to be resurfaced every 5 years....why?
shouldn't roads last longer than that?

Oil field traffic.
/thread.

[KantoSooner]

i'm not sure diverting funds is the only problem...

hwy 412 east of enid has to be resurfaced every 5 years....why?
shouldn't roads last longer than that?

Ding ding ding!

I watched a very interesting program a couple of years ago that highlighted the bidding process. In the USA, we generally pretty much follow a low bidder wins approach. Whereas in Germany, the 'low bidder' has to not only build the road, but maintain it for ten years.
Who do you think gets roads that last in decent condition for a while?

[OutlandTrophy]

Ding ding ding!

I watched a very interesting program a couple of years ago that highlighted the bidding process. In the USA, we generally pretty much follow a low bidder wins approach. Whereas in Germany, the 'low bidder' has to not only build the road, but maintain it for ten years.
Who do you think gets roads that last in decent condition for a while?

that's not even close to telling the whole story.

the contractor bids to the specs the State engineers put in the contract documents. The State opts for the cheapest specs, not the specs that will make roads last 40 years.

[NormanPride]

I don't think the point was that the contractors are being lazy, I think it's that they're bidding as cheap as possible like they should and the state is too stupid to think ahead.

The system of making the bidder maintain the roads for 10 years is nice, since it builds maintenance into the bid and lays the cost upfront.

[KantoSooner]

that's not even close to telling the whole story.

the contractor bids to the specs the State engineers put in the contract documents. The State opts for the cheapest specs, not the specs that will make roads last 40 years.

I think we're in violent agreement.

[MsProudSooner]

Here's another road question.

We've all seen the retrofit they have done on many of our highways that added supports that you could see on the roads. They are on 169 in Tulsa and they work - the road is much smoother. My question is why the heck did these roads have to be retrofitted to make them smooth? Why didn't they build them better to begin with? Aren't we spending more in the long run than if it had been done correctly from the start?

[yermom]

our gas taxes are also lower in the first place

[Jammin']

At least the money isn't going to improve Oklahoma's educational system.

[OutlandTrophy]

our gas taxes are also lower in the first place

what would that matter?

Instead of taking over $100 million out they would take over $120 million out.

silly boy ;)

[delhalew]

At least the money isn't going to improve Oklahoma's educational system.

For real. We could get another humanities class, and further behind in math and science.:D

[bigfatjerk]

Would anyone really trust that the money is going into good use if it went into the education system anyway? Same with the highway system really. We are better off letting private companies try and run these things.

[Jammin']

Would anyone really trust that the money is going into good use anyway? We are better off letting private companies try and run everything.

fixed and approved.

[Mississippi Sooner]

Well, Oklahoma is one of the national leaders in the amount of toll roads. A lot of states are considering the viability of turning to company owned toll roads.

[bigfatjerk]

Indiana did this and it's worked pretty good. Toll roads would be a little more expensive. But more efficient and a lot fewer bumps.

[Sooner5030]

ok roads rock!!

the condition might suck but the availability compared to the population is pretty good.

Try driving on I-5 from northern Seattle to Tacoma on a friday. Compare that with going from say NW highway to downtown OKC on 240>40 on a friday and ok roads rock!

[delhalew]

ok roads rock!!

the condition might suck but the availability compared to the population is pretty good.

Try driving on I-5 from northern Seattle to Tacoma on a friday. Compare that with going from say NW highway to downtown OKC on 240>40 on a friday and ok roads rock!

People who complain about OK roads, don't get out much. The only really bad spots are I40 Through OKC, and US 69 south of I 40. As I said before, given oil field traffic, that ain't bad.

[Turd_Ferguson]

The problem with OK roads is by the time they get it updated, it's all ready outdated...

[SpankyNek]

Indiana did this and it's worked pretty good. Toll roads would be a little more expensive. But more efficient and a lot fewer bumps.

Except when they run into legal issues regarding citations and accidents on private property.

If I were there, I'd drive 120 mph all of the time.

[WE ARE dirtburglars]

I know in Tulsa, the roads are horrendous, yet no matter where you go it seems like they are always working on the roads. I dont get it? :confused:

[oulucas]

Answer: Because Oklahoma is full of unintelligent, short-sighted conservative politicians who don't invest in infrastructure but insist on pushing their own social agenda instead.

Am I right? What do I win?

[WE ARE dirtburglars]

Answer: Because Oklahoma is full of unintelligent, short-sighted conservative politicians who don't invest in infrastructure but insist on pushing their own social agenda instead.

Am I right? What do I win?

you need to chill dude, for your information, im not a conservative by any means.

[oulucas]

No need to get your panties in a bunch. I didn't even read your post before I posted mine. Looks like it was a perfect storm: I gave you neg spek for something in another thread and then made this post (which happened to come directly after a post you made). I honestly didn't make my post in this thread in reaction to you. No need for a pissing match.

[WE ARE dirtburglars]

No need to get your panties in a bunch. I didn't even read your post before I posted mine. Looks like it was a perfect storm: I gave you neg spek for something in another thread and then made this post (which happened to come directly after a post you made). I honestly didn't make my post in this thread in reaction to you. No need for a pissing match.

Believe me i dont want one, youll win in politics haha. I just thought your neg in the other thread was bogus and thought your last comment was directed at me.

[oulucas]

Can't even remember why I neg spekked you but I'm sure I had a good reason ;-} Honestly, my post in this thread had nothing to do with you. Peace.

[WE ARE dirtburglars]

WHY DO YOU HATE ME?? ;) haha nah, its cool.

[Condescending Sooner]

A big reason for our crappy roads is all the oil field traffic combined with a lack of weigh stations. They know they can grossly exceed the weight limit and never get caught. The weight stations north of Edmond finally reopened, but their hours are 8-5 Monday through Friday. What a joke.

[Ike]

It's not just that the conditions are bad in some spots. It's also that we have many many miles of poorly traffic-engineered highways in OKC. The whole I-35/I-40/Broadway ext interchange is a traffic engineering cluster****.

[sappstuf]

Except when they run into legal issues regarding citations and accidents on private property.

If I were there, I'd drive 120 mph all of the time.

Is that you Ryan?

[delhalew]

A big reason for our crappy roads is all the oil field traffic combined with a lack of weigh stations. They know they can grossly exceed the weight limit and never get caught. The weight stations north of Edmond finally reopened, but their hours are 8-5 Monday through Friday. What a joke.

That's pretty irrelevant. Oil field equipment is permitted to be grossly overweight.

[OutlandTrophy]

and they pay big bucks for their permits

[The Profit]

No need to get your panties in a bunch. I didn't even read your post before I posted mine. Looks like it was a perfect storm: I gave you neg spek for something in another thread and then made this post (which happened to come directly after a post you made). I honestly didn't make my post in this thread in reaction to you. No need for a pissing match.




I actually thought you were correct.

[Mississippi Sooner]

Since the statute of limitations has expired, I'll admit that I used to run overweight sometimes when I was hauling sand between Mill Creek, OK and Wichita Falls. The way the sand plants work is that you get on the scale and get and empty weight, and then after you get loaded you go and weigh again. If you are overweight you are supposed to go to a special area and blow some of it off. Since this one particular scale was unmanned, and because we got paid by the ton, if I wasn't so overweight that my trailer tires were bulging, I'd just go with it. Never got hassled about it once.

[87sooner]

Since the statute of limitations has expired, I'll admit that I used to run overweight sometimes when I was hauling sand between Mill Creek, OK and Wichita Falls. The way the sand plants work is that you get on the scale and get and empty weight, and then after you get loaded you go and weigh again. If you are overweight you are supposed to go to a special area and blow some of it off. Since this one particular scale was unmanned, and because we got paid by the ton, if I wasn't so overweight that my trailer tires were bulging, I'd just go with it. Never got hassled about it once.

how long ago?
now days....the business is held responsible for overloading you....
dolese won't let you off their property if you're overweight...
same with farmers' co-ops....
farmers otoh...who load in the fields...that's a different story....
in 6 years....i've never been stopped..

i've also been told that the bridge laws are only for interstate highways...not state highways...wrt farm products...
i haven't bothered to look it up to verify.

[Mississippi Sooner]

how long ago?
now days....the business is held responsible for overloading you....
dolese won't let you off their property if you're overweight...
same with farmers' co-ops....
farmers otoh...who load in the fields...that's a different story....
in 6 years....i've never been stopped..

i've also been told that the bridge laws are only for interstate highways...not state highways...wrt farm products...
i haven't bothered to look it up to verify.

Ah, this has been 15+ years ago. And most all other sand plants wouldn't let you leave overloaded. This one in particular, the name escapes me now, had an unmanned scale where you just went into a little house, pressed a button and it would spit out your weight ticket. It was like an honor system. I didn't do it often because I was pretty good at timing the silo to know just when to shut it off before it gave me too much. Every once in a while, though, it would run faster than usual.

[Midtowner]

Re: the original subject, Jerry Fent is a guy I have a lot of respect for. That he even does this instead of the Attorney General should be an absolute embarrassment to the Attorney General's office. The Oklahoma Constitution explicitly forbids diverting funds collected for one purpose to other purposes or the general fund. Numerous recent cases support this, for example, one recently won by Fent alleging the improper collection of court filing fees being used for things that had nothing to do with the administration of the courts.