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CrimsonCream
6/21/2011, 07:57 AM
Let's be clear on this: OBAMA did NOT kill Bin Laden. An American sailor, who Obama, just a few weeks ago, was debating on whether or not to PAY, did.

In fact, if you remember a little less than two years ago, his administration actually charged and attempted to court-martial 3 Navy Seals from Seal Team Six, when a terrorist suspect they captured, complained they had punched him during the take down and bloodied his nose.

His administration further commented how brutal they were. The left were calling them Nazi's and Baby Killers. Now all of a sudden, the very brave men they vilified are now heroes when they make his administration look good in the eyes of the public.

Obama just happened to be the one in office when the CIA finally found the b...... And our sailors took him out. Essentially, Obama only gave an answer. Yes or No, to him being taken out. This is NOT an Obama victory, but an AMERICAN victory!!

Ed Schreiber
Col. USMC (Ret.)
"Semper Fi"

OBAMA'S OWN WORDS TRAP HIM:

2008: "Navy Seal Team 6 is Cheney's private assassination team."

2011: "I put together Seal Team 6 to take out Bin Laden."

2008: "Bin Laden is innocent until proven guilty, and must be captured alive and given a fair trial."

2011: "I authorized Seal Team 6 to kill Bin Laden."

2008: "Guantanamo is entirely unnecessary, and the detainees should not be interrogated."

2011: "Vital intelligence was obtained from Guantanamo detainees that led to our locating Bin Laden."

Once again, "Sleaze" will say or do anything to cast himself in a favorable light.

How can anyone continue to support this unethical, arrogant, lying, corrupt sh!head?

royalfan5
6/21/2011, 08:01 AM
Because none of the other politicians are materially different?

SoonerHoops
6/21/2011, 08:02 AM
Facepalm

JohnnyMack
6/21/2011, 08:03 AM
Cut and paste, wheee!!!!

I got this spam about 4 weeks ago. Thanks.

Mississippi Sooner
6/21/2011, 08:04 AM
It's funny how chain emails get longer and longer as time goes by.

JohnnyMack
6/21/2011, 08:08 AM
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/jun/07/chain-email/chain-e-mail-accuses-barack-obama-hypocrisy-raid-o/

Midtowner
6/21/2011, 08:27 AM
Generally speaking, it's not hard to fool folks who believe the President is a Muslim, that the world is 6,000 years old and that Jesus rode around on t-rexes.

KantoSooner
6/21/2011, 08:30 AM
Why is it that we are unable to see shades of grey anymore? George 'W' (for whom I voted, twice) was vilified by 'the left' for anything he did above and beyond breathing (and that was a close call for many). Now Obama (for whom I have voted once and may have to again unless the GOP pulls its collective thumb out of its collective *** and nominates someone with an IQ above double digits who is NOT a bible thumping ideologue) gets the same treatment.
Surely we all realize that a skinny 50 year old president was not fast ropiing into Osama's compound. Yes? Can we give him credit, however, for green lighting a mission that very well might have blown up in his face politiically? (Not the same 'downside risk' that the SEALS faced, but real enough in the political world.)
If we can do that, I believe it frees us up to have the real debates that truly shape our world: like whether our government should have a central or subsidiary role in our economy. And whether we need another pile of securities regulation....or should just try and enforce what we already had ... and ignored. And with whom and how we should interact in the broader world. And about 9000 other issues that are far more important than the endless stream of vitriol we seem to want to squirt on each other.

thecynic
6/21/2011, 08:32 AM
Why is it that we are unable to see shades of grey anymore? George 'W' (for whom I voted, twice) was vilified by 'the left' for anything he did above and beyond breathing (and that was a close call for many). Now Obama (for whom I have voted once and may have to again unless the GOP pulls its collective thumb out of its collective *** and nominates someone with an IQ above double digits who is NOT a bible thumping ideologue) gets the same treatment.
Surely we all realize that a skinny 50 year old president was not fast ropiing into Osama's compound. Yes? Can we give him credit, however, for green lighting a mission that very well might have blown up in his face politiically? (Not the same 'downside risk' that the SEALS faced, but real enough in the political world.)
If we can do that, I believe it frees us up to have the real debates that truly shape our world: like whether our government should have a central or subsidiary role in our economy. And whether we need another pile of securities regulation....or should just try and enforce what we already had ... and ignored. And with whom and how we should interact in the broader world. And about 9000 other issues that are far more important than the endless stream of vitriol we seem to want to squirt on each other.

please, this board has no place for reason or common sense. please refrain from posting this kind of stuff ever again.

pphilfran
6/21/2011, 08:35 AM
Why is it that we are unable to see shades of grey anymore? George 'W' (for whom I voted, twice) was vilified by 'the left' for anything he did above and beyond breathing (and that was a close call for many). Now Obama (for whom I have voted once and may have to again unless the GOP pulls its collective thumb out of its collective *** and nominates someone with an IQ above double digits who is NOT a bible thumping ideologue) gets the same treatment.
Surely we all realize that a skinny 50 year old president was not fast ropiing into Osama's compound. Yes? Can we give him credit, however, for green lighting a mission that very well might have blown up in his face politiically? (Not the same 'downside risk' that the SEALS faced, but real enough in the political world.)
If we can do that, I believe it frees us up to have the real debates that truly shape our world: like whether our government should have a central or subsidiary role in our economy. And whether we need another pile of securities regulation....or should just try and enforce what we already had ... and ignored. And with whom and how we should interact in the broader world. And about 9000 other issues that are far more important than the endless stream of vitriol we seem to want to squirt on each other.

Kanto, Obama had no real choice on how to react to Bin Laden...

He had three choices to pick from...

1. Do nothing and risk a massive backlash if the info was released to the public...

2. Bomb the compound and risk not having a body as proof of his death...

3. Go in with the Seals...

It was a no brainer...

soonerscuba
6/21/2011, 08:43 AM
I would assume that people like the OP have always existed. You know for a fact that someone in this country thought Adams was a secret British imperialist or something, and it's a real shame that nut didn't get a forum to voice his nonsense.

After our intelligence adventures the last few decades and the actions of former presidents, I would say the green light to raid that compound wasn't quite as cut and dry as it would appear. Don't get me wrong, the SEALs were the obvious choice, but doing nothing would have been the easy choice.

Midtowner
6/21/2011, 08:43 AM
Why all of these threads about people?

Eleanor Roosevelt put it best:

"Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people."

(and yes, the attribution of the quote is questionable before anyone goes off and politifacts me)

pphilfran
6/21/2011, 08:45 AM
I would assume that people like the OP have always existed. You know for a fact that someone in this country thought Adams was a secret British imperialist or something, and it's a real shame that nut didn't get a forum to voice his nonsense.

After our intelligence adventures the last few decades and the actions of former presidents, I would say the green light to raid that compound wasn't quite as cut and dry as it would appear. Don't get me wrong, the SEALs were the obvious choice, but doing nothing would have been the easy choice.

So you think there was no political risk in doing nothing?

pphilfran
6/21/2011, 08:46 AM
Why all of these threads about people?

Eleanor Roosevelt put it best:

"Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people."

(and yes, the attribution of the quote is questionable before anyone goes off and politifacts me)

Excellent, as usual...

Jammin'
6/21/2011, 08:46 AM
Why all of these threads about people?

Eleanor Roosevelt put it best:

"Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people."

(and yes, the attribution of the quote is questionable before anyone goes off and politifacts me)

That Eleanor Roosevelt was one fine piece of ***.

soonerscuba
6/21/2011, 08:48 AM
So you think there was no political risk in doing nothing?Not really, not for the fact as they existed before the raid. Assuming that what is coming out of the government is true, they simply could have said they had it as a possible target but did not have solid enough intelligence to carry out a mission.

3rdgensooner
6/21/2011, 08:51 AM
WHAAAAAT?!?! I thought Obama went into that compound and popped a clip into Bin Laden's eye.


I'm so disappointed.

Midtowner
6/21/2011, 08:58 AM
Excellent, as usual...

To expand on that concept, perhaps this phenomenon exists because some people (OP, for example) like to make conclusions without knowing all (or any) of the facts.

Bringing us further away from the topic, I listened to KTOK (talk radio in OKC) on the day of the Jerome Ersland verdict knowing full well what a hot mess the evening drive show would be. As predicted, the callers had formed conclusions, and to a person, none of them actually knew what happened, and that is still the case.

I blame our society for turning out a bunch of lazy thinkers who are more interested in letting someone else analyze facts, they'll just form conclusions which are loosely based on their values.

Essentially, ITT, we see a fine example of, then discuss confirmation bias.

pphilfran
6/21/2011, 09:02 AM
Not really, not for the fact as they existed before the raid. Assuming that what is coming out of the government is true, they simply could have said they had it as a possible target but did not have solid enough intelligence to carry out a mission.

He would have been blistered to not take the risk....hell, he has hundreds of thousands of troops in harms way each and every day...20 somethings are making life and death decisions in the field every day...

Obama has stated since day one he wanted to take the sob out...the facts they found by various methods promised something like a 70% chance he was in the compound... to miss out on a chance to take him out would have been political suicide if the info was released...

He had little logical choice in the decision that was made...

caseysooner
6/21/2011, 09:21 AM
DFTT

OhU1
6/21/2011, 09:36 AM
I'm not an Obama guy but if there was a video tape of Obama cutting Bin Laden's head off Zarqawi-style some would still complain that someone else handed him the knife.

KantoSooner
6/21/2011, 09:46 AM
Kanto, Obama had no real choice on how to react to Bin Laden...

He had three choices to pick from...

1. Do nothing and risk a massive backlash if the info was released to the public...

2. Bomb the compound and risk not having a body as proof of his death...

3. Go in with the Seals...

It was a no brainer...



Oh, there were other options that would have been more to the liking of a number of his constituents:

Inform the Paki's and request they 'do something'.

Form a multinational force to 'do something'.

Try to capture rather than kill him.

Etc. He could have ****ed this up in any of a number of ways.

I agree that the SEAL option was the best, but it risked a lot (failure and massive casualties for two). I'm not advocating sainthood for the guy, but giving him a brief, muted round of applause will not hurt any of us.

lexsooner
6/21/2011, 10:09 AM
I'm not an Obama guy but if there was a video tape of Obama cutting Bin Laden's head off Zarqawi-style some would still complain that someone else handed him the knife.

LOL! If some folks truly looked upon the killing of Bin Laden as an American victory first and foremost, why would they be looking for stuff which discredits Obama's role? It's really irrelevant - we got Bin Laden, so be glad about it.

Midtowner
6/21/2011, 10:14 AM
Inform the Paki's and request they 'do something'.

This probably carried the least political risk of any of the alternatives. If the Pakistanis were tipped off and then found nothing (hid Osama), we'd have been none the wiser. And even if there was a leak, most would have probably still doubted that the Pakistanis were hiding Osama. Or the Pakistanis could have captured him and turned him over and then who knows?

The Maestro
6/21/2011, 10:40 AM
GWB already made a big announcement himself...

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/4b3afc5c2f/president-bush-reacts-to-osama-bin-laden-s-death-with-will-ferrell?playlist=hall_of_fame

Fraggle145
6/21/2011, 11:11 AM
http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lm7bh06ANY1qznpo0o1_500.gif

BU BEAR
6/21/2011, 12:38 PM
Because none of the other politicians are materially different?

I do not know of many politicians who believed that Osama bin Laden was innocent until proven guilty and should have been given a fair trial. Obama is the only one coming to mind at the moment who I have heard say that.

batonrougesooner
6/21/2011, 12:47 PM
FWIW I doubt there's really a Col. Schreiber. Or if there is he isn't the author of this chain letter.

A USMC Colonel would know it's SEAL, not seal. It seems like a small detail but within the military it's a real distinction. Regarding the quotes, I don't think anyone in the government, including Obama has referred to the SEALs who reportedly took down Bin Laden as belonging to SEAL team 6. There is no SEAL team 6. There is a Naval Special Warfare Development Group which is responsible for testing and developing new NSW tactics and equipment AMONG OTHER THINGS, but there is no SEAL team 6 currently in existence.

CrimsonCream
6/21/2011, 01:25 PM
FWIW I doubt there's really a Col. Schreiber. Or if there is he isn't the author of this chain letter.

A USMC Colonel would know it's SEAL, not seal. It seems like a small detail but within the military it's a real distinction.

Good point.

However, it actually is the F.B.I. and not FBI. Might be the same thing.

pphilfran
6/21/2011, 01:26 PM
Oh, there were other options that would have been more to the liking of a number of his constituents:

Inform the Paki's and request they 'do something'.

Form a multinational force to 'do something'.

Try to capture rather than kill him.

Etc. He could have ****ed this up in any of a number of ways.

I agree that the SEAL option was the best, but it risked a lot (failure and massive casualties for two). I'm not advocating sainthood for the guy, but giving him a brief, muted round of applause will not hurt any of us.

Good point...those would have been options....

I would think the capture option was more the choice of the Seals...if you are against torture for info than ordering a hit on anyone would not be an option...

The other options would have given the political reward to others....

I never said that Obama shouldn't get some credit for taking the guy out...my only thoughts are that there were many more people involved in the operation over the last decade that should get far more credit than the current administration...namely the intelligence community and the Seals...

soonerscuba
6/21/2011, 01:35 PM
Good point.

However, it actually the F.B.I. and not FBI. Might be the same thing.In case you missed on the first page.

A link for gullible people (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/jun/07/chain-email/chain-e-mail-accuses-barack-obama-hypocrisy-raid-o/)

lexsooner
6/21/2011, 01:47 PM
In case you missed on the first page.

A link for gullible people (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/jun/07/chain-email/chain-e-mail-accuses-barack-obama-hypocrisy-raid-o/)

The truth has got nothing to do with it, scuba.

CrimsonCream
6/21/2011, 02:15 PM
In case you missed on the first page.

A link for gullible people (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/jun/07/chain-email/chain-e-mail-accuses-barack-obama-hypocrisy-raid-o/)

Can't open it but it probably is the same for those that voted for Obama and still support him.

Pricetag
6/21/2011, 02:19 PM
FWIW I doubt there's really a Col. Schreiber. Or if there is he isn't the author of this chain letter.
Col. George Carlin really wrote it, I think.

StoopTroup
6/21/2011, 02:29 PM
Let's be clear on this: OBAMA did NOT kill Bin Laden. An American sailor, who Obama, just a few weeks ago, was debating on whether or not to PAY, did.

In fact, if you remember a little less than two years ago, his administration actually charged and attempted to court-martial 3 Navy Seals from Seal Team Six, when a terrorist suspect they captured, complained they had punched him during the take down and bloodied his nose.

His administration further commented how brutal they were. The left were calling them Nazi's and Baby Killers. Now all of a sudden, the very brave men they vilified are now heroes when they make his administration look good in the eyes of the public.

Obama just happened to be the one in office when the CIA finally found the b...... And our sailors took him out. Essentially, Obama only gave an answer. Yes or No, to him being taken out. This is NOT an Obama victory, but an AMERICAN victory!!

Ed Schreiber
Col. USMC (Ret.)
"Semper Fi"



No....I don't remember any of it. I think the Retired Col should write a book about it though....I'm sure it would be a best seller if any of it was true.

Isn't the internet wonderful. So much BS to keep hate rolling.

Why don't Marines who know that some of this isn't true defend their good name? Is this guy even alive or does he truly exist? Has he had some sort of mental breakdown?

cccasooner2
6/21/2011, 02:31 PM
Good point.

However, it actually is the F.B.I. and not FBI. Might be the same thing.


I'm somewhat surprised the baseball nerds at least don't use the term Fib-ease for FBI personnel much like they use Rib-ease for RBIs. Naw, not really. :)

soonerscuba
6/21/2011, 02:40 PM
Can't open it but it probably is the same for those that voted for Obama and still support him.When you get a chance, you should check it out. It pretty much lays out why it's another swing and a miss for chain mail believers. Republican or Democrat there is literally no section of population dumber than people who believe what they read in a forward.

batonrougesooner
6/21/2011, 02:58 PM
In fact, if you remember a little less than two years ago, his administration actually charged and attempted to court-martial 3 Navy Seals from Seal Team Six, when a terrorist suspect they captured, complained they had punched him during the take down and bloodied his nose.

This part is true however. They weren't necessarily from "SEAL team 6" however. They were thankfully acquitted. Obama was a complete asshat for letting those charges stand. I suspect Obama is like most other liberals. He loaths the military until it's politically expedient to cloak himself in the flag.

StoopTroup
6/21/2011, 03:00 PM
http://www.marines.com/main/search?s=Ed+Schreiber+Col.+USMC+%28Ret.%29&x=13&y=9

StoopTroup
6/21/2011, 03:12 PM
In fact, if you remember a little less than two years ago, his administration actually charged and attempted to court-martial 3 Navy Seals from Seal Team Six, when a terrorist suspect they captured, complained they had punched him during the take down and bloodied his nose.

This part is true however. They weren't necessarily from "SEAL team 6" however. They were thankfully acquitted. Obama was a complete asshat for letting those charges stand. I suspect Obama is like most other liberals. He loaths the military until it's politically expedient to cloak himself in the flag.

It's pretty sad that Obama's lack of service comes to bear such huge criticism when there seems to be only one GOP Candidate that has anything legitimate when it comes to serving.

http://2012.presidential-candidates.org/Military.php

StoopTroup
6/21/2011, 03:17 PM
(and yes, the attribution of the quote is questionable before anyone goes off and politifacts me)

Even so....it doesn't really matter who made the quote or got credit for it if it has some credence as a well thought out Quote. There are many Quotes that are excellent that are attributed to an Unknown Author. The fact that it isn't good because Elenore might not have said it doesn't make it any less of a really good quote....it seems to make it even more legitimate.

StoopTroup
6/21/2011, 03:24 PM
T-Paws big move is coming anyway....You will soon have your next potential GOP Candidate....:D

dwarthog
6/21/2011, 03:28 PM
To expand on that concept, perhaps this phenomenon exists because some people (OP, for example) like to make conclusions without knowing all (or any) of the facts.

Bringing us further away from the topic, I listened to KTOK (talk radio in OKC) on the day of the Jerome Ersland verdict knowing full well what a hot mess the evening drive show would be. As predicted, the callers had formed conclusions, and to a person, none of them actually knew what happened, and that is still the case.

I blame our society for turning out a bunch of lazy thinkers who are more interested in letting someone else analyze facts, they'll just form conclusions which are loosely based on their values.

Essentially, ITT, we see a fine example of, then discuss confirmation bias.

But they know why Billy has two Dads, Sally has two Moms and why Pat has a pecker, (not for long), but is really a girl inside.

Maybe we should consider using the time kids are in school to actually teach them some critical thinking skills instead of pushing social agendas, left or right.

batonrougesooner
6/21/2011, 03:29 PM
It's pretty sad that Obama's lack of service comes to bear such huge criticism when there seems to be only one GOP Candidate that has anything legitimate when it comes to serving.

http://2012.presidential-candidates.org/Military.php

Didn't mention his lack of service.

I don't like how he tried to throw these guys under the bus as the saying goes.

StoopTroup
6/21/2011, 03:48 PM
Didn't mention his lack of service.

I don't like how he tried to throw these guys under the bus as the saying goes.

There are so many links to help verify your accusations.....

http://wbff88.blogspot.com/2011/06/remember-obama-tried-to-courtmartial.html

What you are saying is merely other people's opinions in the matter....and since the President didn't interfere....some are convinced he threw them under the bus....


The commander of the special ops is the person who is responsible for bringing these men to trial, but Puckett does not blame him, but rather his attorneys who probably swayed him to go ahead with the charges. The attorney would most likely be someone in the JAG core, probably a Colonel in the Army or Captain in the Navy who is a senior advisor.


Maybe he did...maybe he didn't....but your accusation is about as valid as that Email

pphilfran
6/21/2011, 03:49 PM
There are so many links to help verify your accusations.....

http://wbff88.blogspot.com/2011/06/remember-obama-tried-to-courtmartial.html

Sounds like I wrote part of that thing....

Midtowner
6/21/2011, 04:31 PM
But they know why Billy has two Dads, Sally has two Moms and why Pat has a pecker, (not for long), but is really a girl inside.

Maybe we should consider using the time kids are in school to actually teach them some critical thinking skills instead of pushing social agendas, left or right.

Maybe if we funded schools like they were a priority rather than an afterthought...

Condescending Sooner
6/21/2011, 04:42 PM
Even so....it doesn't really matter who made the quote or got credit for it if it has some credence as a well thought out Quote. There are many Quotes that are excellent that are attributed to an Unknown Author. The fact that it isn't good because Elenore might not have said it doesn't make it any less of a really good quote....it seems to make it even more legitimate.

And yet, others are wondering if the Colonel exists and dismiss the entire post because they don't think he does.

Condescending Sooner
6/21/2011, 04:44 PM
Maybe if we funded schools like they were a priority rather than an afterthought...

A weak and false observation. Schools are funded at a rate far away more than they were in the past.

cccasooner2
6/21/2011, 04:54 PM
It's pretty sad that Obama's lack of service comes to bear such huge criticism when there seems to be only one GOP Candidate that has anything legitimate when it comes to serving.

http://2012.presidential-candidates.org/Military.php


My money's on Sarah in a gunfight though.

soonercruiser
6/21/2011, 04:57 PM
Cut and paste, wheee!!!!

I got this spam about 4 weeks ago. Thanks.

Crimson!
Please continue to cut and paste the TRUTH about the sleeze!
:D

soonercruiser
6/21/2011, 04:59 PM
Why all of these threads about people?

Eleanor Roosevelt put it best:

"Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people."

(and yes, the attribution of the quote is questionable before anyone goes off and politifacts me)

Midtowner, please share this with The Profit!
:rolleyes:

soonercruiser
6/21/2011, 05:01 PM
Excellent, as usual...

Sorry Phil!
But when discussing our current President, he has no personal creative ideas to share.
Ceptin' the socialistic ones...:rolleyes:

StoopTroup
6/21/2011, 05:10 PM
And yet, others are wondering if the Colonel exists and dismiss the entire post because they don't think he does.

There's a huge difference between a good quote and a misleading statement that is easily disputed. One will hold the test of time and the other won't last 10 minutes before it hits most peoples trashcan

StoopTroup
6/21/2011, 05:13 PM
Wouldn't it be cool if Fox or even someone from 20-20, 48 hours or maybe even the Daily Show would interview the Col. about this....

soonercruiser
6/21/2011, 11:36 PM
Maybe if we funded schools like they were a priority rather than an afterthought...

Midtown!
Do you own property?
Do you look at the tax statements?
Max tax increases every year! And schrools (not msp) get over 51% of that!

No pay raises here in 3 years!
Get real! Public schrools are (in general) a waste basket.

WE ARE dirtburglars
6/21/2011, 11:40 PM
This is what Ive been saying the whole time. Obama is making it seem like he pulled the damn trigger, he merely gave a seemingly no brainer answer.

StoopTroup
6/22/2011, 06:49 AM
This is what Ive been saying the whole time. Obama is making it seem like he pulled the damn trigger, he merely gave a seemingly no brainer answer.

I think that's a complete whacked out perception. I mean how many times do you have to go back and read and look at the pictures of all the top administration and military brass sitting in the Presidents "Ready Room" to realize that he and everyone in the room had kept Pakistan out of the know and that he was ready to accept complete responsibility for the operation should it not have panned out to have caught OBL. As they stated the Intel they had was solid and they kept the operation hush hush and later either took advice or made the decision to bury the guy at Sea in front of the ones that they took alive. They did it to eliminate the physical place for martyrdom and to make sure survivors and Military Brass understood that it was a respectable Muslim Burial at Sea and not some dragging his dead *** through the streets as would happen if one of us was killed by them.

Yeah those of you who can't stand the fact that the guy that was behind the 9-11-01 attacks was brought to justice by the next administration instead of the GOP Administration were robbed of the glory because GWB wasn't able to make it happen on his watch and McCain got hammered in the 2008 election...

But...I'm happier than I've been in 10 years that OBL and many others responsible for 9-11-01 no longer walk the face of this Earth.

StoopTroup
6/22/2011, 07:04 AM
Sorry Phil!
But when discussing our current President, he has no personal creative ideas to share.
Ceptin' the socialistic ones...:rolleyes:

Amazingly one of the new Front Running Conservatives in the 2012 Election has now stepped into the race and now is trying to do exactly what needs to be done and is changing this type of misconception by stating that there are many things he disagrees with President Obama on and instead of trying to smear his name he's trying to wake up the GOP and take a much different approach that has been needed for around a decade and it talking about what needs to be done post War.

The guys continuing to go with quotes Like yours will not stand a chance even if you are right that all Obama is doing is spreading a Socialist Agenda. It's a tired ideal as a way to gain strength against the current administration as most Americans see what transpired prior to his watch as a cluster**** of Epic Porportions.

I like Huntsman but I wonder if he's a little too late coming to the Party and I wonder if he's going to weather the attacks that he is to close to Obama to be considered as nothing more than a distraction.

Midtowner
6/22/2011, 07:05 AM
Midtown!
Do you own property?
Do you look at the tax statements?
Max tax increases every year! And schrools (not msp) get over 51% of that!

No pay raises here in 3 years!
Get real! Public schrools are (in general) a waste basket.

I absolutely do look at my tax statements. And I know how Oklahoma spends less per student than all but one state and we've since cut funding double digits.

Our schools get decent results considering how they are resourced, but they should and could be a lot better. In Oklahoma, the biggest problem with the tax structure is not property taxes, but all of the tax credits passed out to corporations and likely rampant tax credit fraud that no one investigates.

StoopTroup
6/22/2011, 07:07 AM
I absolutely do look at my tax statements. And I know how Oklahoma spends less per student than all but one state and we've since cut funding double digits.

Our schools get decent results considering how they are resourced, but they should and could be a lot better. In Oklahoma, the biggest problem with the tax structure is not property taxes, but all of the tax credits passed out to corporations and likely rampant tax credit fraud that no one investigates.

Boom goes the dynamite!

Condescending Sooner
6/22/2011, 08:51 AM
I absolutely do look at my tax statements. And I know how Oklahoma spends less per student than all but one state and we've since cut funding double digits.

Our schools get decent results considering how they are resourced, but they should and could be a lot better. In Oklahoma, the biggest problem with the tax structure is not property taxes, but all of the tax credits passed out to corporations and likely rampant tax credit fraud that no one investigates.

Be careful believing the funding per student b.s. The people (Dept. of Ed.) who release those stats only include state funding and omit property taxes, county and city funding, and well head taxes that the schools receive. The education budget just keeps increasing with no results. Last year the dept. of Ed. received a 2.9% cut from what they were promised compared to 22% for other state agencies. They still received more than the year before. Don't believe all the crap they release to the media. Take a look at their overall budgets.

OhU1
6/22/2011, 08:56 AM
This is what Ive been saying the whole time. Obama is making it seem like he pulled the damn trigger, he merely gave a seemingly no brainer answer.

Example of what I posted yesterday: ^^^^^^
if there was a video tape of Obama cutting Bin Laden's head off Zarqawi-style some would still complain that someone else handed him the knife.

lexsooner
6/22/2011, 09:28 AM
Example of what I posted yesterday: ^^^^^^
if there was a video tape of Obama cutting Bin Laden's head off Zarqawi-style some would still complain that someone else handed him the knife.

People impute imaginary actions upon political figures they dislike, so nonsense like the OP tend to pop up on a regular basis. I recall Obama gave full credit to everyone involved - W, the military, the intelligence community. There is not one credible source indicating Obama tried to hog the credit for getting Bin Laden. I can only conclude that some people are truly irked that it happened on Obama's watch and he was involved at all, so they are trying to make something negative out of something which was first and foremost an American victory. You have to really wonder about the patriotism of people whose main reaction to the killing of Bin Laden is to look for ways to bash the President rather than be glad Bin Laden was taken out.

dwarthog
6/22/2011, 09:29 AM
Be careful believing the funding per student b.s. The people (Dept. of Ed.) who release those stats only include state funding and omit property taxes, county and city funding, and well head taxes that the schools receive. The education budget just keeps increasing with no results. Last year the dept. of Ed. received a 2.9% cut from what they were promised compared to 22% for other state agencies. They still received more than the year before. Don't believe all the crap they release to the media. Take a look at their overall budgets.

Maybe this will help with the discussion re stated expenditures on education. FY2012 budget is approximately 6.3 billion.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k19/dwarthog/Oklahoma_2012_budget_pie_chart.jpg

WE ARE dirtburglars
6/22/2011, 09:41 AM
I think that's a complete whacked out perception. I mean how many times do you have to go back and read and look at the pictures of all the top administration and military brass sitting in the Presidents "Ready Room" to realize that he and everyone in the room had kept Pakistan out of the know and that he was ready to accept complete responsibility for the operation should it not have panned out to have caught OBL. As they stated the Intel they had was solid and they kept the operation hush hush and later either took advice or made the decision to bury the guy at Sea in front of the ones that they took alive. They did it to eliminate the physical place for martyrdom and to make sure survivors and Military Brass understood that it was a respectable Muslim Burial at Sea and not some dragging his dead *** through the streets as would happen if one of us was killed by them.

Yeah those of you who can't stand the fact that the guy that was behind the 9-11-01 attacks was brought to justice by the next administration instead of the GOP Administration were robbed of the glory because GWB wasn't able to make it happen on his watch and McCain got hammered in the 2008 election...

But...I'm happier than I've been in 10 years that OBL and many others responsible for 9-11-01 no longer walk the face of this Earth.

Oh my opinion had nothing to do with which administration "brought him down." Im well aware that we had intell on his wherabouts for some time before we finally took him out.

My comment was in response to Obamas speech the night we killed Osama. He tries to make it seem like he was actually there pulling the trigger. Congrats to him for being the one to get it done, its a victory for AMERICA no matter what party youre associated with, but he got a little carried away I think. Yes I know his decision to finally go through with the operation was more complicated than I made it seem as well.

WE ARE dirtburglars
6/22/2011, 09:43 AM
Example of what I posted yesterday: ^^^^^^
if there was a video tape of Obama cutting Bin Laden's head off Zarqawi-style some would still complain that someone else handed him the knife.

Nah, if I saw that, Id think hes the most badazz President Ive ever seen.

OhU1
6/22/2011, 09:44 AM
I can only conclude that some people are truly irked that it happened on Obama's watch and he was involved at all, so they are trying to make something negative out of something which was first and foremost an American victory. You have to really wonder about the patriotism of people whose main reaction to the killing of Bin Laden is to look for ways to bash the President rather than be glad Bin Laden was taken out.

What irks me about most political discourse I read and hear is people don't care about what is actually true - they only want to defend "their guy/party" and bash the other side. Too many people have their self worth wrapped up vicariously with their political parties the way some do with the success of their favorite sports team.

What is worse is these political fans "root" for the economy to fail and for other failures so "their guy" will have a better chance down the road. Just as important for these people is that their world view is confirmed as correct and that other people are reminded that they were correct.

lexsooner
6/22/2011, 10:05 AM
What irks me about most political discourse I read and hear is people don't care about what is actually true - they only want to defend "their guy/party" and bash the other side. Too many people have their self worth wrapped up vicariously with their political parties the way some do with the success of their favorite sports team.

What is worse is these political fans "root" for the economy to fail and for other failures so "their guy" will have a better chance down the road. Just as important for these people is that their world view is confirmed as correct and that other people are reminded that they were correct.

Agreed, 100%. People who support both parties are guilty of this, although there seem to be a lot more far right Republicans on this board. I have long ago lost interest in partisan bickering and pettiness - it's all meaningless and solves nothing. The most serious issues facing this country greatly transcend the issue of whether someone is liberal, conservative, GOP, Democrat. The greatest irony is that in reality (something many cannot or do not want to grasp), the biggest divide and where people's attention ought to be placed is the widening gulf between the very wealth/powerful and the rest of us. Both parties are in bed with the very rich and butter their bread. I wish some folks would realize this. I can only imagine how the super wealthy laugh at common folks and how stupid they are, with their partisan bickering, MSNBC or Fox, retard radio shows.

The Profit
6/22/2011, 10:10 AM
Midtowner, please share this with The Profit!
:rolleyes:





You are like a floating turd. You pop up every once in a while and are irritating as hell.

Fish&Game
6/22/2011, 10:15 AM
I can't wait for the pics to come out right before the next presidential election! Then we'll get to see ole' osama with the extra holes in his melon!

[hairGel]

The Profit
6/22/2011, 10:17 AM
I can't wait for the pics to come out right before the next presidential election! Then we'll get to see ole' osama with the extra holes in his melon!

[hairGel]




You are someone, who knows how politics is played. You remember the 9/11 photos that were released prior to gwb's reelection, and the fake terrorist warnings.

Fish&Game
6/22/2011, 10:21 AM
I'm just here to stir the pot! ;)

pphilfran
6/22/2011, 10:23 AM
I'm just here to stir the pot! ;)

It's a fun game to play...

Midtowner
6/22/2011, 10:50 AM
Be careful believing the funding per student b.s. The people (Dept. of Ed.) who release those stats only include state funding and omit property taxes, county and city funding, and well head taxes that the schools receive. The education budget just keeps increasing with no results. Last year the dept. of Ed. received a 2.9% cut from what they were promised compared to 22% for other state agencies. They still received more than the year before. Don't believe all the crap they release to the media. Take a look at their overall budgets.

Who told you that? Your information as to the methodology is just wrong. And 22%? Which agency was that?

As for current local, state and federal data, the latest we have is 2009. 2010 won't even be compiled until some time in July of next year (as '09 data was only released today), but I assure you, they track education revenue from all sources, except, I assume they would exclude bond money as that's not technically income since it has to be repaid.

According to the Oklahoma Educators Association, education has been cut 10% over the last three years and will be cut an additional 4.1% in the coming year.

CrimsonCream
6/22/2011, 02:48 PM
What irks me about most political discourse I read and hear is people don't care about what is actually true - they only want to defend "their guy/party" and bash the other side. Too many people have their self worth wrapped up vicariously with their political parties the way some do with the success of their favorite sports team.

This certainly is true.

Chris Wallace had some Obama flack on and he made some outrageous claim. Chris Wallace asked him if he could prove what he said. The flack asked Wallace if he could prove that it wasn't true what he just said.

John Kennedy once said that politics was an honorably profession. Don't believe that is the case anymore.

Condescending Sooner
6/22/2011, 04:50 PM
Who told you that? Your information as to the methodology is just wrong. And 22%? Which agency was that?

As for current local, state and federal data, the latest we have is 2009. 2010 won't even be compiled until some time in July of next year (as '09 data was only released today), but I assure you, they track education revenue from all sources, except, I assume they would exclude bond money as that's not technically income since it has to be repaid.

According to the Oklahoma Educators Association, education has been cut 10% over the last three years and will be cut an additional 4.1% in the coming year.

I, unlike you obviously, work with state budgets on a regular basis. There were several agenices whose funding FY 2010 was 22% less than 08. I assure you they do NOT track funding from all sources if they are listing a 10% cut for education. We are finishing FY 2010, and the funding received has been known for a year. Believe it or not, there are some subjects that some people know more about than you. Getting your info from OEA is not a good idea.

Blue
6/22/2011, 05:05 PM
Two "condescending" Sooners...:pop:

pphilfran
6/22/2011, 05:06 PM
Two "condescending" Sooners...:pop:

I was thinking along similar lines...

SoonerStormchaser
6/23/2011, 08:42 AM
I opened this thread thinking there would be a sensational story about Obama clubbing baby Harp seals...now I'm disappointed...
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/photos/uncategorized/2009/03/19/seal_pup2_4.jpg