Wisconsin Supreme Court reinstates Walker’s collective bargaining law

[sappstuf]

Acting with unusual speed, the state Supreme Court on Tuesday reinstated Gov. Scott Walker's plan to all but end collective bargaining for tens of thousands of public workers.

The court found a committee of lawmakers was not subject to the state's open meetings law, and so did not violate that law when they hastily approved the measure and made it possible for the Senate to take it up. In doing so, the Supreme Court overruled a Dane County judge who had struck down the legislation, ending one challenge to the law even as new challenges are likely to emerge.

The majority opinion was by Justices Michael Gableman, David Prosser, Patience Roggensack and Annette Ziegler. The other three justices - Chief Justice Shirley Abrahamson and Justices Ann Walsh Bradley and N. Patrick Crooks - concurred in part and dissented in part.

...

In its ruling Tuesday, the Supreme Court said it took up the case because the lower court had "usurped the legislative power which the Wisconsin Constitution grants exclusively to the Legislature."

From the ruling:


As the court has explained when legislation was challenged based on allegations that the legislature did not follow the relevant procedural statutes, “this court will not determine whether internal operating rules or procedural statutes have been complied with by the legislature in the course of its enactments.

[The Profit]

It will cost the good governor his job, and that is a good thing.

[Whet]

No, it will not cost the governor his job! He was voted in to rein in the out of control union, leftist run state.

[XingTheRubicon]

I'm sure those 100k/yr bus drivers are devastated.




Time to earn your money, and quit being a ****ing leech.

[Whet]

Wisconsin is finally turning the corner! The state senate just passed Conceal and Carry, leaving only one state that does not have some form of C&C. Can anyone guess which state?
hints: Blago, Barack, Rahm, Daley.

[hawaii 5-0]

No, it will not cost the governor his job! He was voted in to rein in the out of control union, leftist run state.



The recall petitions for Gov. Walker's job got out in November. Stay tuned.......



5-0



Trump/ Walker 2012

[REDREX]

Ed Schultz's head will probably blow up tonight on live TV---I can't wait

[Caboose]

A victory for the tax payer.

[soonercruiser]

It will cost the good governor his job, and that is a good thing.

Duh!
It will CEMENT his poularity with the taxpayers of the state - to have won over the LW labor & Education thugs!

What say you BADGER?

[REDREX]

Ed Schultz is an idiot

[hawaii 5-0]

It's really pretty simple-----

The Koch brothers, international corporations and insurance companies have the best interest of Americans at heart; while teachers, policemen and firemen are trying to destroy the American economy.



5-0



Trump/ Wheezer 2012

[SpankyNek]

I'm sure those 100k/yr bus drivers are devastated.




Time to earn your money, and quit being a ****ing leech.

What do you do to "earn" your money?

I thought capitalism was about getting all you can?

Your quote is more appropriately aimed at CEO's of all the companies that took stimulus funds to fund their 7 figure salaries and bonuses.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Wonder how the MSM is covering this. Someone pls report here. Thnx.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I just saw/heard Greta Van Sustern passionately condemn the WI Supreme Court, calling them a most dysfunctional court, and saying "just wait" til the 9 republican legislators that are being targeted for recall elections are voted upon. She is apparently really looking forward to the D's getting back into power again, not surprisingly.

[TheLadiesMike]

It's really pretty simple-----

The Koch brothers, international corporations and insurance companies have the best interest of Americans at heart; while teachers, policemen and firemen are trying to destroy the American economy.

Excellent appeal to emotion but the law did not apply to police or firemen. Leave that kind of whiffing to tejas.

[EnragedOUfan]

Excellent appeal to emotion but the law did not apply to police or firemen. Leave that kind of whiffing to tejas.

Of course it didn't. Because if it included them, that would cost them votes. Politics at its finest!

[EnragedOUfan]

Gov. Walker is done! Stick a fork in him...........And with the massive amounts of people I see on the tube protesting over this, in 2 months the Democrats will have back Wisconsin. I strongly believe this will happen. What I'm kind of in awe about is this whole "fake Democrats" thing. Man that's really dirty politics.......

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Gov. Walker is done! Stick a fork in him...........And with the massive amounts of people I see on the tube protesting over this, in 2 months the Democrats will have back Wisconsin. I strongly believe this will happen. What I'm kind of in awe about is this whole "fake Democrats" thing. Man that's really dirty politics.......Hard to argue with a guy who is in favor of economic collapse.

[hawaii 5-0]

Excellent appeal to emotion but the law did not apply to police or firemen. Leave that kind of whiffing to tejas.




If you knew anything about what's happening up there, you'd know the police and firemen are solidly behind the protesters. They're out there protesting as well.


5-0



Trump/ Fitz 2012

[hawaii 5-0]

Gov. Walker is done! Stick a fork in him...........And with the massive amounts of people I see on the tube protesting over this, in 2 months the Democrats will have back Wisconsin. I strongly believe this will happen. What I'm kind of in awe about is this whole "fake Democrats" thing. Man that's really dirty politics.......



The Repubs might lose control of the legislature but the Dems wouldn't have enough votes to override a Walker veto.

The real battle will take place later when Walker's own Recall petitions go out.


5-0



Trump/ Randall 2012

[SoCaliSooner]

If you knew anything about what's happening up there, you'd know the police and firemen are solidly behind the protesters. They're out there protesting as well.


5-0



Trump/ Fitz 2012

Unions stick together. Unions make huge donations to the dems and in return the dems give them sweet deals.

There are more regular joes than cops, firefighters and teachers. Most nonunion people pay for their health care and retirement and do without pay increases in hard times. If unions would make some concessions in usually slight 2% to 3% out of their own members pockets, things would quietly just plug along and everybody would be happy.

[Whet]

the only way Walker loses is if the Dems bus in more of their voters, like they did in Ohio in 2008. In Ohio, the convicted felon, George Soros supported Secretary of Elections rules people without permenant addresses can register and vote absentee the same day. Bus loads of Dem activists came into Ohio to take advantage of this ruling.

Otherwise, Walker keeps his job. The unions will go all out to try and defeat him, with all means necessary, because they se the handwriting on the wall that the general public have caught on to their sweet deal at taxpayers expense. why shouldn't the public sector unions pay part of their healthcare costs and contribute to their own pensions?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

the only way Walker loses is if the Dems bus in more of their voters, like they did in Ohio in 2008. In Ohio, the convicted felon, George Soros supported Secretary of Elections rules people without permenant addresses can register and vote absentee the same day. Bus loads of Dem activists came into Ohio to take advantage of this ruling.
You do expect this, or something as abhorrent to happen, don't you?

[sappstuf]

The Repubs might lose control of the legislature but the Dems wouldn't have enough votes to override a Walker veto.

The real battle will take place later when Walker's own Recall petitions go out.

5-0

Trump/ Randall 2012

I thought the real battle was knocking Prosser out of the Supreme Court..... Oh wait, you lost that battle. Badly.

[XingTheRubicon]

What do you do to "earn" your money?

I thought capitalism was about getting all you can?

Your quote is more appropriately aimed at CEO's of all the companies that took stimulus funds to fund their 7 figure salaries and bonuses.


Witness these things with your own eyes, then develop an opinion. I remember a short visit to an auto plant in Woodhaven, MI (and several other union shops over the years) workers sitting on their *ss, basically looked like an adult day care center. After you see something like that, go visit a non union shop and let me know what you think.

I know everyone here hates WalMart, but it's not just coincidence that they are one of the largest, most successful businesses in modern US history. Go to one of their distribution centers and see if anyone is sitting on their *ss.

[soonerscuba]

the only way Walker loses is if the Dems bus in more of their voters, like they did in Ohio in 2008. In Ohio, the convicted felon, George Soros supported Secretary of Elections rules people without permenant addresses can register and vote absentee the same day. Bus loads of Dem activists came into Ohio to take advantage of this ruling.So, George Soros convinced, financed and set up the logistics for thousands of people to cross state lines and commit a felony while having each and everyone of these people keep quiet and elude the FEC? That makes perfect sense.

[pphilfran]

So, George Soros convinced, financed and set up the logistics for thousands of people to cross state lines and commit a felony while having each and everyone of these people keep quiet and elude the FEC? That makes perfect sense.

I doubt if he pulled it off....but if he thought he could have and keep it quiet I wouldn't put it past him....:)

All the distaste everyone has for oil speculators....yet somehow Soros gets a pass even though he made billions speculating in the currency markets...hell, he made a billion betting against the pound....

You deal with this guy and you will come out with the short side of the stick...

[The Profit]

I doubt if he pulled it off....but if he thought he could have and keep it quiet I wouldn't put it past him....:)

All the distaste everyone has for oil speculators....yet somehow Soros gets a pass even though he made billions speculating in the currency markets...hell, he made a billion betting against the pound....

You deal with this guy and you will come out with the short side of the stick...




How do any of you have the audacity to bring up George Soros, when everyone knows that the Nazis from Wichita, the Koch Brothers, are leading the anti-union charge.

[OutlandTrophy]

Nazis, nice.

[pphilfran]

How do any of you have the audacity to bring up George Soros, when everyone knows that the Nazis from Wichita, the Koch Brothers, are leading the anti-union charge.

Small potatoes..they have only invested 100 mill or so over 20 years....

[sappstuf]

Looking up Koch Brothers on Google is a great.. It isn't hard to tell where all the leftist "Truthers" went...

[The Profit]

Nazis, nice.




Oh, I don't use the word loosely. They are Nazis.

[soonerscuba]

You deal with this guy and you will come out with the short side of the stick...I doubt investors in the Quantum Fund agree with you. There are two sides to every trade.

I totally agree with your premise though regarding speculation gnashing of teeth.

[sappstuf]

Oh, I don't use the word loosely. They are Nazis.

Considering the two brothers that are affliated with Koch Industries, David and Charles, were born in 1935 and 1940.. in Kansas no less, I would love to hear your explaination.

[pphilfran]

Oh, I don't use the word loosely. They are Nazis.

I don't think they liked Bush...they are libertarian and free market radicals...

[pphilfran]

I doubt investors in the Quantum Fund agree with you. There are two sides to every trade.

I totally agree with your premise though regarding speculation gnashing of teeth.

He and Rogers made a ton of money with the Quantum fund and his investors were very, very, happy....

I'm just saying I wouldn't want to be on the other side of a security contract...

[The Profit]

Considering the two brothers that are affliated with Koch Industries, David and Charles, were born in 1935 and 1940.. in Kansas no less, I would love to hear your explaination.



They are obviously not members of the Nazi Party, but they operate like Nazis.

[OutlandTrophy]

oh.

how do they operate like Nazis? what do they operate like Nazis?

[REDREX]

They are obviously not members of the Nazi Party, but they operate like Nazis.---No ----They operate like Capitalists and employee over 50,000 people

[pphilfran]

---No ----They operate like Capitalists and employee over 50,000 people

In Profit's eyes they had one strike against them when they were born...they inherited the business and unlimited wealth....

[REDREX]

In Profit's eyes they had one strike against them when they were born...they inherited the business and unlimited wealth....---They started with a company worth $40 Million----Now it is probably worth $40 Billion---I think they worked for their money

[pphilfran]

---They started with a company worth $40 Million----Now it is probably worth $40 Billion---I think they worked for their money

They have grown the business...but they were born into huge money....

[Position Limit]

---They started with a company worth $40 Million----Now it is probably worth $40 Billion---I think they worked for their money

getting hit by a tidal wave in tulsa and landing in chicago alive doesnt make me a good swimmer.

[REDREX]

They have grown the business...but they were born into huge money....---They were born into big money----They made it in to huge money

[The Profit]

---No ----They operate like Capitalists and employee over 50,000 people



Yeah, good old red-blooded Americans, huh?


Notorious Nazis Ilse Koch, her husband Karl Otto Koch and Erich Koch are the ghosts of Koch Industries, who seized the U.S. conservative political agenda years ago and seem capable of seizing the government in total through the Tea Party. Ilse Koch was the Nazi’s specialist in making objects from human skin; was the only woman charged with war crimes; and along with her husband was in charge of one of the most horrific horror camps in Nazi Germany.

Koch Industries is the child of the violence of Buchenwald, widely regarded as one of wartime Germany’s most notorious “death camps”.

Information connecting Ilse and Koch Industries is hard to find but is a string of fragments, pieces of information that connects the American and German Kochs and this connection gives us a clear image of the sentiment behind the Tea Party and conservative American politics since the 1950s. Where is the connection between the German Koch’s and Fred Koch? Besides evidence the American Koch was related to Ilse’s family, Erich Koch (a high level Nazi official in charge of Prussia) invites Fred Koch to sell his oil in Nazi Germany when he is banned from doing business in the US. After the fall of Nazi Germany, Erich Koch and Fred expand the oil empire to the Soviet Union. Erich Koch had been in charge of Prussia for Hitler so his ties to the Soviet Union ran deep. A few years later the Soviets took Fred Koch’s oil and prosecuted Erich for war crimes – Fred Koch returned to the US, became anti-communist, and was allowed to do business in the States again.

American Fred Koch, and through association the Kochs from Germany, establish the John Birch Society in the 1950s in NY, which becomes the policy center for American conservatives. The society was built on Fred Koch’s oil money in the 1950s and can be thought of as the center of neo-conservative politics as well as the Tea Party movement. The ideologies of each are not the same – but the Tea Party fits into the neo-conservative put for colonial corporate police state as a sort of consumer citizen of the neo-conservative strategy mad as hell at the government and the legacy of liberalism, postmodernism, multiculturalism, taxes….etc.

Ilse and her husband Karl were tried by the SS before the war ended, accused of corruption. Her husband Karl Otto Koch was tried and sentenced to death in Nazi Germany. After the war, Ilse was arrested in the German American Zone, tried in front of a tribunal and sentenced, but was quickly pardoned by the American general appointed leader of the zone.


Erich Koch

Koch reported to Hitler that unemployment had been banished entirely from East Prussia, a feat that gained admiration throughout the Reich.

On September 1, Koch became Reichskommissar of Reichskommissariat Ukraine with control of the Gestapo and the police. His domain was extended from the Baltic Sea to the Black Sea; he captured ethnic German, Polish, Belarus and Ukrainian’s declaring that “Ukraine children need no schools. What they’ll have to learn will be taught them by their German masters” and “If I meet a Ukrainian worthy of being seated at my table, I must have him shot..”.

Koch worked together with the General Plenipotentiary for Labour Deployment, providing the Reich with forced labor. Due to his brutal actions, Nazi rule in Ukraine was disturbed by a growing number. Before once more getting away himself, by escaping through this Baltic Sea port on April 23, 1945, on the icebreaker Ostpreußen. He faced charges of war crimes for the extermination of 400,000 Poles, but was never indicted for his crimes in Ukraine. He was sentenced to death on March 9, 1959 by the district court in Warsaw for having planned, prepared and organised the mass murder of civilians. Russians thought he possessed information about art looted by the Nazis during the war.

Years after the war, Koch stood trial in Poland and was convicted in 1959 of war crimes and sentenced to death. The sentence was commuted to life imprisonment a year later.

Brother of Erich Koch, Karl Otto Koch

….(August 2, 1897 – April 5, 1945), a Standartenführer (Colonel) in the German Schutzstaffel (SS), was the first commandant of the Nazi concentration camps at Buchenwald. On August 1, 1937 he was given command of the new concentration camp at Buchenwald. Investigation into his improper conduct at Buchenwald included corruption, fraud, embezzlement, drunkenness, sexual offences and a murder. Koch’s orders to kill prisoners at the camp were revealed, as well as embezzlement of property stolen from prisoners.

Ilse Koch

Koch married Ilse Köhler with whom he had a son and two daughters. Köhler later became known as “The ***** of Buchenwald. She was accused of taking souvenirs from the skin of murdered inmates with distinctive tattoos. She built an indoor sports arena, which cost over 250,000 marks, most of which were taken from the inmates arrested by the Gestapo for embezzlement of SS funds and the murder of certain inmates in an attempt to cover up these crimes.

She was tried for war crimes by an American military tribunal in 1947. Prosecuting her was future United States Court of Claims Judge Robert L. Kunzig. She was charged with ”participating in a criminal plan for aiding, abetting and participating in the murders at Buchenwald.” The tribunal found Koch guilty and sentenced her to life imprisonment.
After she had served two years, General Lucius D. Clay, the interim military governor of the American Zone in Germany, pardoned her. Owing to international condemnation, however, Koch was re-arrested in 1949 and tried before a West German court for instigation to murder in 135 cases. She was sentenced to life imprisonment on January 15, 1951. She committed suicide by hanging herself at Aichach women’s prison on September 1, 1967

Fred Chase Koch

….(September 23, 1900 – November 17, 1967) chemical engineer and founded the TEXACO oil refinery firm that later became Koch Industries (Chevron). Koch and its customers were sued for patent infringement, process for turning crude oil into gasoline. Litigation effectively put Winkler-Koch out of business in the U.S. for several years. Koch turned his focus to foreign markets, including the Soviet Union and NAZI GERMANY, reportedly with the help of ERICH KOCH.

During his time in the Soviet Union, Fred Koch came to despise communism and Josef Stalin’s regime “a land of hunger, misery and terror”.

Fred C. Koch married Mary Robinson in Kansas City, Missouri in 1932. They had four sons, Frederick (b. 1933), Charles (b. 1935), David (b. 1940) and William (b. 1940). His sons are Charles de Ganahl Koch and David H. Koch.

The New York Times on Charles and David:

“Koch Industries began with oil in the 1930s and now also spews an array of industrial products, from Dixie cups to Lycra, not unlike DuPont’s portfolio of paint and plastics. Sometimes the biological DNA persists as well. The Koch brothers’ father, Fred, was among the select group chosen to serve on the Birch Society’s top governing body. In a recorded 1963 speech that survives in a University of Michigan archive, he can be heard warning of “a takeover” of America in which Communists would “infiltrate the highest offices of government in the U.S. until the president is a Communist, unknown to the rest of us”. That rant could be delivered as is at any Tea Party rally today.

Last week the Kochs were shoved unwillingly into the spotlight by the most comprehensive journalistic portrait of them yet, written by Jane Mayer of The New Yorker. Her article caused a stir among those in Manhattan’s liberal elite who didn’t know that David Koch, widely celebrated for his cultural philanthropy, is not merely another rich conservative Republican but the founder of the Americans for Prosperity Foundation, which, as Mayer writes with some understatement, “has worked closely with the Tea Party since the movement’s inception”. To New Yorkers who associate the David H. Koch Theater at Lincoln Center with the New York City Ballet, it’s startling to learn that the Texas branch of that foundation’s political arm, known simply as Americans for Prosperity, gave its Blogger of the Year Award to an activist who had called President Obama “cokehead in chief.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/opinion/29rich.html

The John Birch Society

The foundation is financed via the oil and gas fortunes of Fred G. Koch, a founding member of the John Birch Society. Koch ”wrote admiringly of Benito Mussolini’s suppression of Communists in Italy, and disparagingly of the American civil-rights movement.

http://www.jbs.org/

_________________

The depth of influence the Koch’s exert over the US conservative agenda

Sons Charles G. Koch and David H. Koch run the company as well as Koch Family Foundations, one of the largest single sources of funding for conservative organizations in the United States. Organizations and think tanks supported by the foundation include Citizens for a Sound Economy, the libertarian Cato Institute, Reason Magazine, the Manhattan Institute, the Heartland Institute and the Democratic Leadership Council. David H. Koch ran for president on the Libertarian Party ticket in 1980. Author Thomas Frank wrote in ”What’s the Matter with Kansas?” that ”Koch money flowed through Triad Management Services”, an advisory service to conservative donors groups and candidates, for the 1996 Senate campaign of Sam Brownback. Other sources only hint at a connection of Koch family members and Triad.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Koch_Industries

_________________

Koch outspends Exxon on climate and clean energy disinformation

Although Koch intentionally stays out of the public eye, it is now playing a quiet but dominant role in a high-profile national policy debate on global warming. Koch Industries has become a financial kingpin of climate science denial and clean energy opposition. This private, out-of-sight corporation is now a partner to Exxon Mobil, the American Petroleum Institute and other donors that support organizations and front-groups opposing progressive clean energy and climate policy. In fact, Koch has out-spent Exxon Mobil in funding these groups in recent years.

http://climateprogress.org/2010/03/31/report-koch-industries-outspends-exxon-mobil-on-climate-and-clean-energy-disinformation/

_________________


Another example of Republican ties to Koch Industries

(…) If convicted, the company faced fines of up to $352 million, plus possible jail time for company executives. After George W. Bush became president, however, the U.S. Justice Departmentdropped 88 of the charges. Two days before the trial, John Ashcroft settled for a plea bargain, in which Koch pled guilty to falsifying documents. All major charges were dropped, and Koch and Ashcroft settled the lawsuit for a fraction of that amount. Koch had contributed $800,000 to the Bush election campaign and other Republican candidates.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Koch_Industries


A new article on Nazi skin lamps – NY Magazine

Ilse Koch was the most notorious for, among other things, her objects made from the skin of murdered prisoners.

http://nymag.com/news/features/67963/

_________________

Also from yahoo answers:

From yahoo questions – College Park, Maryland, has identified ”a human skin lampshade, or part of one, from the Nazi concentration camp at Buchenwald. The National Museum of Health and Medicine holds three pieces of tattooed human skin, also from Buchenwald. Ilse Koch is the most famous of all Germans accused of having committed atrocities during the war. She was the wife of the commandant of the Buchenwald camp. She was twice convicted in post-war trials, once by an international court and once by her own country. The chief charges against her were cruelty to inmates, including murder, but what she is best-known for is the making of human-skin ornaments, including the lampshades of which we’ve all heard.

Neo-conservatives:

“Neoconservatism… originated in the 1970s as a movement of anti-Soviet liberals and social democrats in the tradition of Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, Humphrey and Henry (‘Scoop’) Jackson, many of whom preferred to call themselves ‘paleoliberals.’ [After the end of the Cold War]… many ‘paleoliberals’ drifted back to the Democratic center… Today’s neocons are a shrunken remnant of the original broad neocon coalition. Nevertheless, the origins of their ideology on the left are still apparent.

In his semi-autobiographical book, Neoconservatism: The Autobiography of an Idea, Irving Kristol cited a number of influences on his own thought, including not only Max Shachtman and Leo Strauss but also the skeptical liberal literary critic Lionel Trilling. The influence of Leo Strauss and his disciples on neoconservatism has generated some controversy, with Lind asserting:

“For the neoconservatives, religion is an instrument of promoting morality. Religion becomes what Plato called a noble lie. It is a myth which is told to the majority of the society by the philosophical elite in order to ensure social order… In being a kind of secretive elitist approach, Straussianism does resemble Marxism. These ex-Marxists, or in some cases ex-liberal Straussians, could see themselves as a kind of Leninist group, you know, who have this covert vision which they want to use to effect change in history, while concealing parts of it from people incapable of understanding it.”

William Kristol defends his father by noting that the criticism of an instrumental view of politics misses the point. When the context is a discussion of religion in the public sphere in a secular nation, religion is inevitably dealt with instrumentally. Apart from that, it should be born in mind that the majority of neoconservatives believe in the truth, as well as the utility, of religion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism

THE WAR ON MULTIPLICITY

The Tea Party is not radical. The Tea Party is the deadly anger in the populace that has always been there….has always driven Republicans. The strange part is we on the left sometimes believe their hatred is new or frame it in the media as ‘new’. Although the anti-government sentiment seems at odd with the colonial policies and oppressive intelligence strategies of a neoconservative agenda, the neo-cons want nothing more than to dismantle government and install corporations. The neocons also explicitly incorporate the usefulness of right wing movements such as religious groups.

The media, the right wing media, is not playing a game: they are serious. On the left we have recently argued and collectively seem to have decided to believe right wing media is not serious - is only manipulating fears for profit. This is a mistake: this collective belief. There is a chink in the logic – right wing media does actually believes its message at the level of the populace, those who deliver and receive the message - and powerful right wing advocates are also manipulating fears for profit we cannot even imagine: global domination in total. I think in our current collective summary of these political battles, we (on the left) are not fully recognizing the reality.

To refuse to protest this hatred is a strange choice by the left – to me. Does it imply a deep complicity with the right’s xenophobia? There are many Reagan democrats who never admitted it, democrats who wanted a return to the colonial policies of Kennedy.

Politics and war are the deadly mixtures of extremists on both sides – their target is a postmodern world. Humanity is faced with the problem that America’s true colors are appearing, are not hiding.

And the left in America is faced with the result of 30 years on inaction, of refusing to get dirty. Worse, the left has to admit Obama so far is just a friendlier neoconservative. We know his real politics are more left, but Obama seems to have abandoned his own ethic.

In the Koch family’s alliance with American Republicans: conservatives, constitutionalists, racists, tea partiers, military hawks, drooling fearful populists… the Koch family has found an alliance in the continued homogenization of society. Republicans gain purity in a world they have always viewed as a dirty, impure space and corporate empires like Koch Industries, built under the care of Nazi Germany and Stalin’s Soviet Union, rise to lead the police state.

[hawaii 5-0]

It's a long read but I think you proved your point about the Koch/ Nazi and the Koch/ John Birch Society connection.

They spread a wealth of dis-information.

Oh, but their minions love the money the Kochs put in their pockets.



5-0



Trump/ Stumped 2012

[REDREX]

That is weak Profit---The Koch family is Dutch--- The family came here in the 1880's---But who cares about facts

[OutlandTrophy]

I missed the part where it says the Koch Brothers from Wichita, Kansas are Nazis.

could you bold that part for me?

[dwarthog]

How do any of you have the audacity to bring up George Soros, when everyone knows that the Nazis from Wichita, the Koch Brothers, are leading the anti-union charge.

Audacty huh....




Soros Eyes Secretaries

By Matthew Vadum on 12.4.09 @ 6:08AM

History's most notorious Georgian-turned-Russian, the politically astute Joseph Stalin once remarked, "The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything."

The lesson has not been lost on the increasingly notorious Hungarian-cum-American George Soros.

A group backed by Soros is gearing up to steal the 2012 election for President Obama and congressional Democrats by installing left-wing Democrats as secretaries of state across the nation. From such posts, secretaries of state can help tilt the electoral playing field.

This is, of course, the same Soros, the same hyperpolitical left-wing philanthropist who makes no secret of his intention to destroy capitalism. In an interview with Der Spiegel last year, Soros said European-style socialism "is exactly what we need now. I am against market fundamentalism. I think this propaganda that government involvement is always bad has been very successful -- but also very harmful to our society."

The vehicle for this planned hijacking of democracy is a below-the-radar non-federal "527" group called the Secretary of State Project. The entity can accept unlimited financial contributions and doesn't have to disclose them publicly until well after the election.

It was revealed during a panel discussion at the Democratic Party's convention last year that the Democracy Alliance, a financial clearinghouse created by Soros and Progressive insurance magnate Peter B. Lewis, approved the Secretary of State Project as a grantee. The Democracy Alliance aspires to create a permanent political infrastructure of nonprofits, think tanks, media outlets, leadership schools, and activist groups -- a kind of "vast left-wing conspiracy" to compete with the conservative movement. It has brokered more than $100 million in grants to liberal nonprofits, including ACORN.

The latest fundraising appeal from the SoS Project warns:

In the 2000 and 2004 elections, we saw the results of extreme Republican tactics to intimidate voters and steal the presidential election -- the disastrous presidency of George W. Bush. Today, we watch as Republicans go to even greater extremes -- even carrying guns to town hall meetings. If they are willing to go to such extremes now, how far will they go on November 6, 2012 to steal the election from President Barack Obama? [emphasis added]

At the top of the SoS Project's slate of candidates for state-level secretary of state positions in 2010 is Minnesota's radically left-wing Mark Ritchie, a former community organizer whose cavalier attitude toward electoral fraud and whose shamelessly partisan conduct during the recount process cleared the way for Al Franken to steal last year's U.S. Senate election from then-Sen. Norm Coleman (R-Minn.). Ritchie was first elected Minnesota secretary of state in 2006. Franken and Obama, by the way, were endorsed last year by ACORN Votes, ACORN's federal political action committee.

In 2006, the Minnesota ACORN PAC endorsed Ritchie, a longtime ACORN ally, and donated to his campaign. According to the Minnesota Campaign Finance and Public Disclosure Board, contributors to Ritchie's campaign included liberal philanthropists Soros, Drummond Pike, and Deborah Rappaport, along with veteran community organizer Heather Booth, a Saul Alinsky disciple who co-founded the Midwest Academy, a radical ACORN clone that breeds Marxist agitators. One article on Ritchie's 2006 campaign website brags about the fine work ACORN did in Florida to pass a constitutional amendment to raise that state's minimum wage.

The 2010 slate also includes California Secretary of State Debra Bowen, whom the group describes as "one of the most progressive Secretaries of State in the nation." Bowen was endorsed in her previous run by California ACORN PAC.

SoS Project is also endorsing Jocelyn Benson, candidate for secretary of state in Michigan, whom it lauds as an "[e]lection law scholar and community organizer."

Benson is a candidate ACORN would love. The bio SoS Project provides credits Benson with running a 2004 "voter protection campaign in 21 states, deploying 17,000 trained election law lawyers." Last year in Michigan, she helped to lead the fight to stop the Republican secretary of state "from disenfranchising voters who were victims of home foreclosures."

Assuming the desperately mismanaged Michigan continues to exist through Election Day next year, count on the desperately evil ACORN endorsing Benson.

To the Secretary of State Project, Republican secretaries of state are always Snidely Whiplashes trying to undermine progressive Dudley Do-Rights. SoS claims to advance "election protection" but only backs Democrats, religiously believe that right-leaning secretaries of state helped the GOP steal the presidential elections in Florida in 2000 (Katherine Harris) and in Ohio in 2004 (Ken Blackwell).

[sappstuf]

It's a long read but I think you proved your point about the Koch/ Nazi and the Koch/ John Birch Society connection.

They spread a wealth of dis-information.

Oh, but their minions love the money the Kochs put in their pockets.

5-0

Trump/ Stumped 2012

Yes he proved he can copy a story from:

http://unknownjournal.wordpress.com/2010/10/06/%E2%96%BC-report-the-kochs-their-nazi-past-american-oil-the-foundation-of-republican-ideology/

:rolleyes:

All the crap at the top isn't linked to NYTimes or anywhere else. Clever blog tactic to make it appear all their claims are backed up by legit media when it isn't.

[soonerscuba]

Audacty huh....Hey, you guys were the ones who wanted the Citizens United decision.

The idea that a hedge fund manager and founder of the Open Society Institute wants to destroy capitalism takes a mend-bending amount of mental gymnastics. I fail to see a fundamental difference between the Koch brothers and Soros in terms of political involvement.

[The Profit]

Hey, you guys were the ones who wanted the Citizens United decision.

The idea that a hedge fund manager and founder of the Open Society Institute wants to destroy capitalism takes a mend-bending amount of mental gymnastics. I fail to see a fundamental difference between the Koch brothers and Soros in terms of political involvement.




I could agree with that.

[pphilfran]

Hey, you guys were the ones who wanted the Citizens United decision.

The idea that a hedge fund manager and founder of the Open Society Institute wants to destroy capitalism takes a mend-bending amount of mental gymnastics. I fail to see a fundamental difference between the Koch brothers and Soros in terms of political involvement.

yep...

[RACHEL MADDOW is my clone]

Yes he proved he can copy a story from:

http://unknownjournal.wordpress.com/2010/10/06/%E2%96%BC-report-the-kochs-their-nazi-past-american-oil-the-foundation-of-republican-ideology/

:rolleyes:

All the crap at the top isn't linked to NYTimes or anywhere else. Clever blog tactic to make it appear all their claims are backed up by legit media when it isn't.

That blogger apparently proved that they can copy and paste too. EVERYTHING there is a copy/paste from THE LINKED SOURCE!!!

[sappstuf]

That blogger apparently proved that they can copy and paste too. EVERYTHING there is a copy/paste from THE LINKED SOURCE!!!

I admit, I was wrong, after following one of the links, I am convinced...


I didn’t put much stock in the possibility that a Dominican spiritualist working out of a basement in Union City, New Jersey, would have much to say about a lampshade that might have been made from human skin in a Nazi concentration camp.

Doña Argentina had her devotees. If the lampshade had truly once been part of a person, “the spirit” would still be present within it, people said. If so, Doña Argentina would bring its secrets to light.

The session began auspiciously. Doña Argentina took the lampshade from its box, took one look at it, and said, “Oh, they kill him.” This was possibly accurate, since the Nazis murdered upward of 11 million people, 6 million Jews among them, during their twelve-year reign of terror. On the other hand, spiritualists have their tricks. They like to impress their needy supplicants. I did not know what Doña Argentina had been told about the lampshade before I’d arrived.

A few moments later, the medium placed a candle beside the lampshade. The flame grew higher.

“¡Mira! The spirit is strong,” Doña Argentina said, taking a chug of rum. There was a pause now, as she stiffened in her velveteen chair. Her eyelids were fluttering. “He says … He says they are all bad to him. They cut him. Stab him with knives. They throw him in the closet. But you are kind to him.”

The flame shot higher. Doña Argentina swigged more rum. “He says he feels safe with you. He wants to stay with you.”

“What?”

“He says he wants to stay with you. He never wants to leave you.”

:rolleyes:

[dwarthog]

Yeah, good old red-blooded Americans, huh?


Notorious Nazis Ilse Koch, her husband Karl Otto Koch and Erich Koch are the ghosts of Koch Industries, who seized the U.S. conservative political agenda years ago and seem capable of seizing the government in total through the Tea Party. Ilse Koch was the Nazi’s specialist in making objects from human skin; was the only woman charged with war crimes; and along with her husband was in charge of one of the most horrific horror camps in Nazi Germany.

Koch Industries is the child of the violence of Buchenwald, widely regarded as one of wartime Germany’s most notorious “death camps”.

snip....

Good grief, what a complete joke.

[The Profit]

Good grief, what a complete joke.




Not a joke if the skin of one of your relatives ended up as a lampshade.

[dwarthog]

Not a joke if the skin of one of your relatives ended up as a lampshade.

Oh, you mean like Ed Gein from Wisconsin?


Perhaps you would care to provide some actual FACTUAL evidence there is a family relationship between the Koch's of Germany, and the Dutch Koch's, which are the roots of the Koch Industries family here in the states.

[SCOUT]

The Illuminati aside...A politician was voted into office for a pretty specific, although not overtly stated, purpose. That is to reign in the budget and unions. He gets elected, follows through on his promise and is upheld by the SC. How is he the one in trouble?

[REDREX]

Oh, you mean like Ed Gein from Wisconsin?


Perhaps you would care to provide some actual FACTUAL evidence there is a family relationship between the Koch's of Germany, and the Dutch Koch's, which are the roots of the Koch Industries family here in the states.

---Don't hold your breath

[badger]

Duh!
It will CEMENT his poularity with the taxpayers of the state - to have won over the LW labor & Education thugs!

What say you BADGER?

Sorry I'm late to the thread. :D

For most of my childhood, in fact, as far back as I can remember till Tommy Thompson was appointed to a W. secretary job after the 2000 election, he was governor. And he was a Republican. And he was quite popular, even with the two big population epicenters of Milwaukee and Madison being staunchly liberal compared with the rest of the rural, farming state area.

The senators have usually been Democrats, but respected by Republicans for different reasons. Herb Kohl is respected by Republicans in the state because he's a businessman and a philanthropist. And, since he's very wealthy, no other candidate usually stands a chance against him anyway :P Russ Feingold was a fun guy, because he got elected through interesting campaign means (he painted his garage door with his campaign pledges) and came out of nowhere in (I think 1992? I was in elementary school at the time) to beat a Republican incumbent.

Wisconsin is not a leftist, liberal state. It is a coveted battleground state that has been popular for candidates of both parties every presidential election. Conversely, it will never be a bright red state like Oklahoma, because any redness from rural areas is next to blueness of the Illinois border areas (yes, Milwaukee and Madison).

Thus, as a registered Republican and even with that bias, I can say that what Gov. Walker has done will not please Wisconsin's Republicans or Democrats. Compromise is expected in a state as moderate as Wisconsin, and what Walker did was equivalent to what the Democrats did at a national level in forcing their "big fuggin deal" Obamacare through when they had a big majority and ignored the other side.

I don't disagree with the reasons Walker did it - the state budget was in a tough spot and cuts needed to be made - but I disagree with how he carried it out. There's hurt feelings, angry voters and now a big national audience that will ensure that this will not just go away after the state Supreme Court decision.

Poor Wisconsin. I still have family up there, and while they complain about their high tax rates, they still love their state and what it offers (unrivaled fishing, lakes, forests, roadways, the Packers, good schools and services, you name it). I worry about what will happen next with all of this recall mess.

[SCOUT]

Sorry I'm late to the thread. :D

For most of my childhood, in fact, as far back as I can remember till Tommy Thompson was appointed to a W. secretary job after the 2000 election, he was governor. And he was a Republican. And he was quite popular, even with the two big population epicenters of Milwaukee and Madison being staunchly liberal compared with the rest of the rural, farming state area.

The senators have usually been Democrats, but respected by Republicans for different reasons. Herb Kohl is respected by Republicans in the state because he's a businessman and a philanthropist. And, since he's very wealthy, no other candidate usually stands a chance against him anyway :P Russ Feingold was a fun guy, because he got elected through interesting campaign means (he painted his garage door with his campaign pledges) and came out of nowhere in (I think 1992? I was in elementary school at the time) to beat a Republican incumbent.

Wisconsin is not a leftist, liberal state. It is a coveted battleground state that has been popular for candidates of both parties every presidential election. Conversely, it will never be a bright red state like Oklahoma, because any redness from rural areas is next to blueness of the Illinois border areas (yes, Milwaukee and Madison).

Thus, as a registered Republican and even with that bias, I can say that what Gov. Walker has done will not please Wisconsin's Republicans or Democrats. Compromise is expected in a state as moderate as Wisconsin, and what Walker did was equivalent to what the Democrats did at a national level in forcing their "big fuggin deal" Obamacare through when they had a big majority and ignored the other side.

I don't disagree with the reasons Walker did it - the state budget was in a tough spot and cuts needed to be made - but I disagree with how he carried it out. There's hurt feelings, angry voters and now a big national audience that will ensure that this will not just go away after the state Supreme Court decision.

Poor Wisconsin. I still have family up there, and while they complain about their high tax rates, they still love their state and what it offers (unrivaled fishing, lakes, forests, roadways, the Packers, good schools and services, you name it). I worry about what will happen next with all of this recall mess.

Thank you for a thorough rational answer!

[badger]

Thank you for a thorough rational answer!

Another thing that makes the political scene interesting up in Wisconsin are that there are varying degrees of Republicaness and Democratness. As such, incumbents might also be at risk of getting usurped by their own parties. We saw this in county sheriff elections a lot. First, the incumbent Republican would lose the primary. Then, the incumbent Republican would wage a write-in campaign. Then, they'd lose the write-in campaign too, kicking and screaming their way out the door. I also saw this happen in a state house election. LOL-worthy how that one went down.

So please understand, this is a very different political environment than the national scene or the Oklahoma scene. Wisconsin will likely never be a blue or a red state (but then again, Oklahoma might have thought it would never be a red state 50 years ago, I dunno).

[dwarthog]

---Don't hold your breath


I'm not.

Just seeing if he has the guts to admit he was wrong and that tripe he posted was a complete fabrication.

[Whet]

so, it is agreed that progressives are demons and rule by mob actions?

[soonerscuba]

so, it is agreed that progressives are demons and rule by mob actions?Poe's Law'd.

[badger]

so, it is agreed that progressives are demons and rule by mob actions?

I am taking screen shots of all your sf.com posts and stapling them to telephone poles around town, shoving an audio recorder in front of you to catch the next words you say out loud, and the next time you exit your residence, there will be a video camera pointing directly at you.

:P of course I'm not actually gonna do any of the following, but this was the reality for Wisconsin elected officials and unions for the earlier part of the year. They were under a national microscope and every action was being judged. Were the unions fighting hard enough to protect all unions, not just their own? Were Republicans standing their ground firm enough to ensure that they wouldn't be viewed as weak? Were Democrats hiding well enough that the Internet and media couldn't find them hiding in their Illinois hotel rooms?

I was very embarrassed for my birth state for all of the above, but I know how different people can act when they have an audience, especially a big, public audience :(

[The Profit]

Oh, you mean like Ed Gein from Wisconsin?


Perhaps you would care to provide some actual FACTUAL evidence there is a family relationship between the Koch's of Germany, and the Dutch Koch's, which are the roots of the Koch Industries family here in the states.



I disagree with your premise.

[badger]

I would be interested to see if the Supreme Court decides to hear this case, because that would be the next and final level of appeals on this. I am guessing that they would not, as this is currently a one state issue (although I know there was other Midwest state squabbles over similar matters, but not on the level it was in Wisconsin)

As for the Koch bros, there's tons of rich people trying to influence politics in their favor out there. Not to stereotype the wealthy, but I always take everything they advocate with a grain of salt, because it is 99.9 percent of the time self serving, even if it seems at first like it's not. I'm still trying to figure out why Bill Gates and son were trying to get a rich tax passed in Washington state... it is a head scratcher. The Koch bros, on the other hand, not so much.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Compromise is expected in a state as moderate as Wisconsin, and what Walker did was equivalent to what the Democrats did at a national level in forcing their "big fuggin deal" Obamacare through when they had a big majority and ignored the other side.
People elected Walker and other conservatives in WI to cut state spending and make fiscal sense with the state govt.

Nationally, lots of folks voted for the democrats under false or vague pretenses. "End cowwuption by those wascally wepubwicans", and "Hope" and "Change". Lots of Americans certainly didn't expect all the expropriations, extremely unpopular introduction to Socialized Medicine, broadening the number of overseas wars(not even those on the Left wanted that), unapologetic high gas prices, etc. IOW, inaccurate analogy.

The rest of your post was up to your usual high standard.

[badger]

People elected Walker and other conservatives in WI to cut state spending and make fiscal sense with the state govt.

Rush dear, I'm not naive enough to think that Walker didn't get a little bit lucky in getting elected. I'm not trying to take away from his victory -- you really need independent support to get elected there and you can't rely on your party support --- he definitely earned that job.

If he had defeated the incumbent, I'd credit voter anger at spending and taxation, but the incumbent, who himself defeated an incumbent (even if that incumbent was a career lt-gov that just got lucky himself when the actual elected governor went to Washington with W.), decided he was retiring. The incumbent was in his mid 60s and had served eight years as governor, 12 years as attorney general for the state. I am not 100 percent convinced (perhaps 43-48 percent convinced, in honor of his approval/disapproval numbers) that Walker would have defeated incumbent Gov. Jim Doyle had he decided to run for a third term.


Nationally, lots of folks voted for the democrats under false or vague pretenses. "End cowwuption by those wascally wepubwicans", and "Hope" and "Change". Lots of Americans certainly didn't expect all the expropriations, extremely unpopular introduction to Socialized Medicine, broadening the number of overseas wars(not even those on the Left wanted that), unapologetic high gas prices, etc. IOW, inaccurate analogy.

Again, another reason why I question Walker et al's method for passing legislation. After seeing how angry Obamacare was force-fed to Americans (with opt out clauses for a select few?!?!), it was probably very unwise to forcefully take collective bargaining from Wisconsin.


The rest of your post was up to your usual high standard.

I know I'm not as Republican as you. (slaps self) bad badger! ;)

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Rush dear, I'm not naive enough to think that Walker didn't get a little bit lucky in getting elected. I'm not trying to take away from his victory -- you really need independent support to get elected there and you can't rely on your party support --- he definitely earned that job.

If he had defeated the incumbent, I'd credit voter anger at spending and taxation, but the incumbent, who himself defeated an incumbent (even if that incumbent was a career lt-gov that just got lucky himself when the actual elected governor went to Washington with W.), decided he was retiring. The incumbent was in his mid 60s and had served eight years as governor, 12 years as attorney general for the state. I am not 100 percent convinced (perhaps 43-48 percent convinced, in honor of his approval/disapproval numbers) that Walker would have defeated incumbent Gov. Jim Doyle had he decided to run for a third term.



Again, another reason why I question Walker et al's method for passing legislation. After seeing how angry Obamacare was force-fed to Americans (with opt out clauses for a select few?!?!), it was probably very unwise to forcefully take collective bargaining from Wisconsin.



I know I'm not as Republican as you. (slaps self) bad badger! ;)It is imperative that the public sector participate in the downsizing of the economy. Otherwise, civil unrest is inevitable. It's up to the public sector to come to their senses. They either participate, or the economy continues grinding to a halt, and probable civil unrest. I am not at all convinced that many on the Left don't want civil unrest.

[badger]

It is imperative that the public sector participate in the downsizing of the economy. Otherwise, civil unrest is inevitable. It's up to the public sector to come to their senses. They either participate, or the economy continues grinding to a halt, and probable civil unrest. I am not at all convinced that many on the Left don't want civil unrest.

Agree, but there has to be a feasible way to implement said downsizing. For example...

I usually love reading about New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, but apparently trying to get limits on public workers getting cash for unused sick leave has resulted in mass-retirements that government can't afford to payoff all at once :(

Trying to get this massive change enacted immediately in Wisconsin resulted in people turning the Wisconsin capitol into a campground, media circus and doctor's note distribution site all rolled into one. :(

[soonercoop1]

No, it will not cost the governor his job! He was voted in to rein in the out of control union, leftist run state.

Another confused liberal....:)

[TitoMorelli]

Uh, who is the real Nazi, Profit?



George’s father changed the family name to something less Jewish-sounding (Soros). As a teenager George went to work for the Judenrat (the name is self explanatory). This was a council of Jewish collaborators set up by the Nazis to aide them in their extermination efforts.

Then his father found him an even better gig:

Theodore hatched a better plan for his son. He bribed a non-Jewish official at the agriculture ministry to let George live with him. George helped the official confiscate property from Jews.

By collaborating with the Nazis, George survived the Holocaust. He turned on other Jews to spare himself.

After the war, George moved to London and then New York where he became a stockbroker and a billionaire. He’s the 35th richest man in the world to be exact.

You could say that young George was just doing what he had to in order to survive, right? Fair enough, but the fact that he aided in the near extermination of his own people probably still haunts him to this day, right?

Not so much.

Steve Kroft of 60 Minutes asked him that. Was it difficult? “Not at all,” Soros answered.

“No feeling of guilt?” asked Kroft. “No,” said Soros. “There was no sense that I shouldn’t be there. If I wasn’t doing it, somebody else would be taking it away anyhow. Whether I was there or not. So I had no sense of guilt.”



Read more: http://www.thehotjoints.com/2010/09/07/george-soros-not-sorry-he-helped-nazis-kill-his-fellow-jews-in-wwii/#ixzz1PPoIVCT9

[soonerscuba]

Uh, who is the real Nazi, Profit?



George’s father changed the family name to something less Jewish-sounding (Soros). As a teenager George went to work for the Judenrat (the name is self explanatory). This was a council of Jewish collaborators set up by the Nazis to aide them in their extermination efforts.

Then his father found him an even better gig:

Theodore hatched a better plan for his son. He bribed a non-Jewish official at the agriculture ministry to let George live with him. George helped the official confiscate property from Jews.

By collaborating with the Nazis, George survived the Holocaust. He turned on other Jews to spare himself.

After the war, George moved to London and then New York where he became a stockbroker and a billionaire. He’s the 35th richest man in the world to be exact.

You could say that young George was just doing what he had to in order to survive, right? Fair enough, but the fact that he aided in the near extermination of his own people probably still haunts him to this day, right?

Not so much.

Steve Kroft of 60 Minutes asked him that. Was it difficult? “Not at all,” Soros answered.

“No feeling of guilt?” asked Kroft. “No,” said Soros. “There was no sense that I shouldn’t be there. If I wasn’t doing it, somebody else would be taking it away anyhow. Whether I was there or not. So I had no sense of guilt.”



Read more: http://www.thehotjoints.com/2010/09/07/george-soros-not-sorry-he-helped-nazis-kill-his-fellow-jews-in-wwii/#ixzz1PPoIVCT9You do realize that Soros was 13 when the Nazis came into Hungary in 1944, so he was in the occupied territory for two years, and was 14 when he assumed an identity to survive? Are we really accusing 13 year-old Jews of being Nazis because we don't like their politics?

[The Profit]

You do realize that Soros was 13 when the Nazis came into Hungary in 1944, so he was in the occupied territory for two years, and was 14 when he assumed an identity to survive? Are we really accusing 13 year-old Jews of being Nazis because we don't like their politics?




I certainly get your point, but you have never seen me defend Soros. It seems that Soros acted like a NAZI when he was a pubescent boy. The Koch Brothers of Wichita act like NAZI's still. That is the difference.

[SoCaliSooner]

I certainly get your point, but you have never seen me defend Soros. It seems that Soros acted like a NAZI when he was a pubescent boy. The Koch Brothers of Wichita act like NAZI's still. That is the difference.

I don't see them putting people in ovens, so I can't really say for sure if they are nazi's.

[soonerscuba]

I'm not the world's biggest Koch brothers fan, but they aren't Nazis, they're not even playing the same sport.

[I Am Right]

It will cost the good governor his job, and that is a good thing.

Nope

[StoopTroup]

I am not at all convinced that many on the Left don't want civil unrest.

Great Sentence

[badger]

I'm not the world's biggest Koch brothers fan, but they aren't Nazis, they're not even playing the same sport.

Yeah ---- I'm fairly young, but I imagine people that had to experience the Holocaust would never use that word lightly when referring to someone like that. There's a reason they make such great movie villains --- everyone hates them universally. As disturbing as it should have been to see Magneto remove an ex-Nazi tooth, did it really make him look like a villain to get his Holocaust revenge?