View Full Version : Chronic unemployment worse than Great Depression
soonercruiser
6/7/2011, 04:55 PM
From CBS News, of all places!
Sooooooo the economy is recovering, is it???
Why can't our politicians speak the truth?
HomeCBS Evening News .June 5, 2011
Chronic unemployment worse than Great Depression
The unemployed have, on average, remained unemployed longer than in the 1930s; Employers wary of job gaps in resumes
(CBS News) There is an unfortunate adage for the unemployed: The longer folks are out of a job, the longer it takes them to find a new one.
CBS News correspondent Ben Tracy reports that the chronically unemployed face the hardest road back to recovery, and that while the jobs picture may be improving statistically on a national level, it is not for them.
Tinong Nwachan, for example, has far too much time on his hands. When CBS News met the former truck driver he had been out of work for two years.
"I don't really tell too many people this but I'm not ashamed or nothing, I'm homeless," Nwachan said.
Summer job bummer: Teen unemployment 24 percent
Nearly 14 million Americans are looking for work
His day job is looking for work at a jobs center in Hollywood. He has plenty of company, including Fabian Lambrecht, who wonders when the economy's improvement will affect them.
"They're saying there are more jobs. I'm just wondering where those jobs are," Lambrecht said.
About 6.2 million Americans, 45.1 percent of all unemployed workers in this country, have been jobless for more than six months - a higher percentage than during the Great Depression.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/06/05/eveningnews/main20069136.shtml
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/06/06/982607/-Long-term-unemployment-worse-now-than-during-Great-Depression
http://oneminutenews.com/channel/trending-news/38191/chronic-unemployment-worse-now-than-during-great-depression
http://www.mlive.com/jobs/index.ssf/2011/06/long-term_unemployment_worse_now_than_in.html
delhalew
6/7/2011, 05:55 PM
Obama did it!
Well...yeah.
He has more important things to worry about than the economy.
Can you guys direct me to the weiner thread? I hear it's relevant and important. TIA.
sooner59
6/8/2011, 01:56 AM
They are hiring at Subway. But people would rather suck the government teet and collect unemployment than work for their money during their search for a new job. There are jobs available, but people's pride keeps them from taking them. They aren't as good as what they are looking for, but they are out there.
GKeeper316
6/8/2011, 04:04 AM
They are hiring at Subway. But people would rather suck the government teet and collect unemployment than work for their money during their search for a new job. There are jobs available, but people's pride keeps them from taking them. They aren't as good as what they are looking for, but they are out there.
ever been on unemployment? if your unemployment check is bigger than a paycheck from subway, why should anyone take the job at subway?
people cant live off minimum wage jobs at fast food places and cleaning hotel rooms.
as long as business refuses to accept a smaller profit margin in order to pay its employees a sustainable income, there will be very little economic recovery.
stop blaming the politicians and blame the giant corporations that create most of the jobs, but dont pay enough to live on.
olevetonahill
6/8/2011, 04:21 AM
ever been on unemployment? if your unemployment check is bigger than a paycheck from subway, why should anyone take the job at subway?
people cant live off minimum wage jobs at fast food places and cleaning hotel rooms.
as long as business refuses to accept a smaller profit margin in order to pay its employees a sustainable income, there will be very little economic recovery.
stop blaming the politicians and blame the giant corporations that create most of the jobs, but dont pay enough to live on.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_QgcIP-pa2II/SUbQw9KAJcI/AAAAAAAAAX8/TygI4OQWl-E/s400/GomerPyle.jpg
You just get dumber by the day:rolleyes:
jumperstop
6/8/2011, 08:35 AM
ever been on unemployment? if your unemployment check is bigger than a paycheck from subway, why should anyone take the job at subway?
people cant live off minimum wage jobs at fast food places and cleaning hotel rooms.
as long as business refuses to accept a smaller profit margin in order to pay its employees a sustainable income, there will be very little economic recovery.
stop blaming the politicians and blame the giant corporations that create most of the jobs, but dont pay enough to live on.
Agree. It doesn't take a genius to realize that they would rather not work and keep looking while getting paid more by the government than they would busting their *** in the fast food industry...
Condescending Sooner
6/8/2011, 08:46 AM
Didn't Obama request several extensions of unemployment? At some point, the benefits need to stop. People are saying we need illegal immigrants to cover labor shortages, and we have millions sitting around collecting unemployment for over a year. It just doesn't make sense.
The Profit
6/8/2011, 08:53 AM
It really shows what a terrible position that George W. Bush left this country in after 8 years of complete incompetence.
Condescending Sooner
6/8/2011, 08:58 AM
It really shows what a terrible position that George W. Bush left this country in after 8 years of complete incompetence.
You really need to get your nose out of Obama's *** for just a second.
GKeeper316
6/8/2011, 10:03 AM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_QgcIP-pa2II/SUbQw9KAJcI/AAAAAAAAAX8/TygI4OQWl-E/s400/GomerPyle.jpg
You just get dumber by the day:rolleyes:
its basic macroeconomics, vet.
if the working class has no disposable income, they aren't buying stuff.
sappstuf
6/8/2011, 10:15 AM
It really shows what a terrible position that George W. Bush left this country in after 8 years of complete incompetence.
The recession officially ended in June of 2009.
pphilfran
6/8/2011, 10:17 AM
its basic macroeconomics, vet.
if the working class has no disposable income, they aren't buying stuff.
What kinda stuff are those lower wage earners gonna buy...how many new cars? How many new houses?
Let's look at Wal Mart...
About 15 billion in yearly profit....4% profit margin...
For all the chit they do....the money they have invested....the headaches running a massive company...the make 4 f'n %....
Now let's divide up the massive 15 bill in profit...
2.1 million employees.....7.5 thou in profit per employee....
They paid out a buck twenty per share in dividend...3.7 billion shares outstanding...so 4 billion dividends...
You are the CEO...how much are you going to move around...you gonna cut the dividend? You gonna slow expansion? You gonna raise prices to increase the 4%? How much of a raise per hour are you going to give your employees....
Your call...I eagerly await your reply....
TheLadiesMike
6/8/2011, 10:38 AM
It really shows what a terrible position that George W. Bush left this country in after 8 years of complete incompetence.
Well, except in 2009 our current President said if we pass his stimulus unemployment would not rise over 8%. It has since gone up over 9% and that does not count people that have given up looking for jobs. Something tells me if the Obama administration had done something in January 2009 that made the economy better you would give him the credit. He did something that made it worse but your personal biases prevent you from giving him the blame. How cliche.
pphilfran
6/8/2011, 10:49 AM
Well, except in 2009 our current President said if we pass his stimulus unemployment would not rise over 8%. It has since gone up over 9% and that does not count people that have given up looking for jobs. Something tells me if the Obama administration had done something in January 2009 that made the economy better you would give him the credit. He did something that made it worse but your personal biases prevent you from giving him the blame. How cliche.
They didn't do anything to make the current economy any worse...without the stimulus/bailouts from Bush and Obama we would be in chit up to our ears...
I damn sure disagree with the way we handled things...I didn't like the way the money was given out without any real expectations of how that money was to be used...or how we failed to reign in salaries at the companies that took bailouts...too much bs in the stimulus and not enough infrastructure rebuilding...
The way it was handled was far from perfect...but a hell of a lot better than doing nuttin....
GKeeper316
6/8/2011, 10:55 AM
What kinda stuff are those lower wage earners gonna buy...how many new cars? How many new houses?
Let's look at Wal Mart...
About 15 billion in yearly profit....4% profit margin...
For all the chit they do....the money they have invested....the headaches running a massive company...the make 4 f'n %....
Now let's divide up the massive 15 bill in profit...
2.1 million employees.....7.5 thou in profit per employee....
They paid out a buck twenty per share in dividend...3.7 billion shares outstanding...so 4 billion dividends...
You are the CEO...how much are you going to move around...you gonna cut the dividend? You gonna slow expansion? You gonna raise prices to increase the 4%? How much of a raise per hour are you going to give your employees....
Your call...I eagerly await your reply....
cars and houses? those are the 2 largest investments the average american will get in...
im talking a pair of jeans for their kids and a night at the movies with the family. lots of little purchases > 1 or 2 large investments.
and with 2.1 million employees and a 15 billion dollar annual profit, i find it hard to believe that wal-mart cant give thier employees an extra 50-100 bucks per paycheck. especially considering the ****ty working conditions wal-mart is notorious for.
for a class, i had to go listen to some dried up crusty ol hag of a freelance investigative journalist talk about women in the workplace. as part of her research, she spent 6 months working as a cashier for wal-mart. according to her, the checkers at the store she was working in had all started to wear adult diapers because they weren't allowed enough breaks to even go to the ****ing bathroom.
sappstuf
6/8/2011, 11:00 AM
They didn't do anything to make the current economy any worse...without the stimulus/bailouts from Bush and Obama we would be in chit up to our ears...
I damn sure disagree with the way we handled things...I didn't like the way the money was given out without any real expectations of how that money was to be used...or how we failed to reign in salaries at the companies that took bailouts...too much bs in the stimulus and not enough infrastructure rebuilding...
The way it was handled was far from perfect...but a hell of a lot better than doing nuttin....
Phil,
I disagree in part. TARP was absolutely neccessary and most certainly saved us from total collapse.
The stimulus plan was passed in late February of 2009. It was supposed to be full of "shovel ready projects". Of course it took awhile, but Obama finally admitted there was no such thing as "shovel ready jobs". So if they never existed, I think the recession would have ended at the same exact time with or without the stimulus.
VTRHkRqIjs4&
pphilfran
6/8/2011, 11:03 AM
cars and houses? those are the 2 largest investments the average american will get in...
im talking a pair of jeans for their kids and a night at the movies with the family. lots of little purchases > 1 or 2 large investments.
and with 2.1 million employees and a 15 billion dollar annual profit, i find it hard to believe that wal-mart cant give thier employees an extra 50-100 bucks per paycheck. especially considering the ****ty working conditions wal-mart is notorious for.
for a class, i had to go listen to some dried up crusty ol hag of a freelance investigative journalist talk about women in the workplace. as part of her research, she spent 6 months working as a cashier for wal-mart. according to her, the checkers at the store she was working in had all started to wear adult diapers because they weren't allowed enough breaks to even go to the ****ing bathroom.
Jeans and movies ain't where the money is made...those both employ low skill workers at low pay...we don't need more of those type jobs...
What ****ty work conditions? They work in a sweatbox? They work 20 hours a day? Unsafe conditions?
Oh, you probably mean they have little tolerance for attendance...or little tolerance for people f'n off...or not following rules...and they ARE a stickler for rules...I don't like Wal Mart but I make a ton of money wholesaling to em and they want my company jumping through hoops...so we do...
You wanna give each employee a 100 bucks....5k a year...you just sucked up 2/3rds of the total company profit...fine...
Where do you cut?
Dividends to those that have invested in your company?
Expansion of the company?
Upkeep of your current stores?
Pound your suppliers into lower costs?
Or are you going to raise prices....
I eagerly await your reply....
pphilfran
6/8/2011, 11:13 AM
Phil,
I disagree in part. TARP was absolutely neccessary and most certainly saved us from total collapse.
The stimulus plan was passed in late February of 2009. It was supposed to be full of "shovel ready projects". Of course it took awhile, but Obama finally admitted there was no such thing as "shovel ready jobs". So if they never existed, I think the recession would have ended at the same exact time with or without the stimulus.
VTRHkRqIjs4&
In a way I agree with ya...you can see in the following chart that the unemployment curve climb started to slow in April/May of 2009...that was probably due to the bank bailouts....hell, no stimulus had reached the economy by that point in time....the GDP charts show the same things...
I realize that they were far too optimistic in regards to stimulus time lines...most people with any sense knew it would take some time for the projects to get underway....the problem is common sense is in short supply in DC...
But the stimulus money is a lot of the reason we have continued to rebound...look at the bottoms on the electrical usage graph...they have stair stepped their way up....I hope they continue to move higher but I have doubts...past recession failed to have industrial energy use climb back to earlier levels...I don't have a chart for that date range...you gonna have to take me at my word...
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii187/pphilfran/unemply81-200912-2.jpg
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii187/pphilfran/indelecusage112.jpg
Chuck Bao
6/8/2011, 12:25 PM
In my opinion, it is a no-brainer. Unemployment will remain high for the foreseeable future. regardless of who is president or which party controls Congress. We are still very far from the tipping point in which manufacturing jobs start coming back to the US. We have a service-based economy and that's about it.
This unemployment crisis had been building for a very long time so it is unfair to blame President GW Bush. Still, he AND CONGRESS didn't do anything to help fix the problem for 8 years.
Another thing that I keep mentioning is that the official GDP numbers are a bit wonky and not a true reflection of the economic life for the average American. An ever increasing part of the GDP calculation, on the production side, is through returns on capital (financial), capital-intensive industries (energy and petrochems), hi-tech (electronics, media) and health care.
The unemployed definitely shouldn't believe the politicians and hold out thinking that their job opportunities will improve. It won't.
My advise to young people today is to get your college degree, preferably in something like petroleum engineering or medical science.
But even those going into medical science field will have their day of reckoning coming soon. The system can't support the current costs. Whether it is Obamacare or another program, it has to change.
How is Keynesian Economics working for everyone?
3rdgensooner
6/8/2011, 01:14 PM
cruiser, you are our own little ray of sunshine.
RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
6/8/2011, 01:18 PM
You really need to get your nose out of the Democrats' *** for just a second.FIFY
I wish I could personally do something to help. Is there something the average joe (or average badger) can do to help with this unemployment mess?
I vote.
I pay taxes.
I don't have outstanding debts and don't spend beyond my means.
I live healthy-like.
I carpool to work.
Hmmm...
RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
6/8/2011, 01:27 PM
How is Keynesian Economics working for everyone?It's always worked well before... It worked for H Hooverand FDR, didn't it? How about LBJ and Jimma Carter?...no?
It works so well because it's so in-tune with human nature. It says, "give us even more of your money, til you decide to quit producing, fail in business, or send your manufacturing out of the country. We'll show you fat cats, because we're the govt. and WE GOTS THE POWA, MOFOS. SUCK IT!"
soonercruiser
6/8/2011, 01:45 PM
It really shows what a terrible position that George W. Bush left this country in after 8 years of complete incompetence.
Doesn't this post really tell you something????
Lemming!
:rolleyes:
soonercruiser
6/8/2011, 01:47 PM
Well, except in 2009 our current President said if we pass his stimulus unemployment would not rise over 8%. It has since gone up over 9% and that does not count people that have given up looking for jobs. Something tells me if the Obama administration had done something in January 2009 that made the economy better you would give him the credit. He did something that made it worse but your personal biases prevent you from giving him the blame. How cliche.
If Obama had been honest and just said..." I'm a community organizer! I'm clueless, and no idea what the heck to do"!
That would have been believable.
soonercruiser
6/8/2011, 01:50 PM
I wish I could personally do something to help. Is there something the average joe (or average badger) can do to help with this unemployment mess?
I vote.
I pay taxes.
I don't have outstanding debts and don't spend beyond my means.
I live healthy-like.
I carpool to work.
Hmmm...
YOU, Badger, are an enigma to the American population!
Even Obama's cabinet doesn't pay their taxes!
3rdgensooner
6/8/2011, 01:52 PM
YOU, Badger, are an enigma to the American population!
Even Obama's cabinet doesn't pay their taxes!Is the IRS aware of this?
If Obama had been honest and just said..." I'm a community organizer! I'm clueless, and no idea what the heck to do"!
That would have been believable.---BUT BUT He went to Harvard he must have all the answers
RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
6/8/2011, 01:58 PM
Is the IRS aware of this?Why did you ask that question?
3rdgensooner
6/8/2011, 01:59 PM
Why did you ask that question?
Because it would surprise me that the entire cabinet could get away with not paying any taxes (per cruiser).
Why do you ask?
SpankyNek
6/8/2011, 02:03 PM
I wish I could personally do something to help. Is there something the average joe (or average badger) can do to help with this unemployment mess?
I vote.
I pay taxes.
I don't have outstanding debts and don't spend beyond my means.
I live healthy-like.
I carpool to work.
Hmmm...
Don't buy any products not manufactured in the USA....this can be rather costly and takes a LOT of research to accomplish, but if just 15% of us would do it, it would make a HUGE difference.
soonercruiser
6/8/2011, 02:06 PM
Because it would surprise me that the entire cabinet could get away with not paying any taxes (per cruiser).
Why do you ask?
Did anyone say "all his cabinet"??
I merely used the "generalization" tactic, that works sooooo well for the LW posters.
:D
soonercruiser
6/8/2011, 02:07 PM
Don't buy any products not manufactured in the USA....this can be rather costly and takes a LOT of research to accomplish, but if just 15% of us would do it, it would make a HUGE difference.
Wiffie and I do that, as much as possible.
Even if a little more $$.
MsProudSooner
6/8/2011, 02:09 PM
ever been on unemployment? if your unemployment check is bigger than a paycheck from subway, why should anyone take the job at subway?
people cant live off minimum wage jobs at fast food places and cleaning hotel rooms.
as long as business refuses to accept a smaller profit margin in order to pay its employees a sustainable income, there will be very little economic recovery.
stop blaming the politicians and blame the giant corporations that create most of the jobs, but dont pay enough to live on.
You left out the fact that they lay off people willy-nilly so the can send their jobs overseas. The folks who were laid off made between $40 - $70K a year. If they find a job at all, it probably pays about $20K a year - $10 and hour. If they are lucky, they can barely get by and are able to keep their house, but many of them lose their homes.
But the politicians of both parties are to blame to a certain extent because too many of them take money from these corporations and then vote the way the corporations want - not the way their constituents want.
Don't buy any products not manufactured in the USA....this can be rather costly and takes a LOT of research to accomplish, but if just 15% of us would do it, it would make a HUGE difference.
Any products you'd recommend?
A lot of local stores sell Okie grown veggies, herbs and even mulch here in Tulsa and I buy it when I can. I have about a half dozen "Red Dirt" brand tomatoes in the backyard now :)
3rdgensooner
6/8/2011, 02:15 PM
Did anyone say "all his cabinet"??
I merely used the "generalization" tactic, that works sooooo well for the LW posters.
It doesn't make sense to blame others for your own behavior.
But thanks for the clarification.
SpankyNek
6/8/2011, 02:18 PM
Any products you'd recommend?
A lot of local stores sell Okie grown veggies, herbs and even mulch here in Tulsa and I buy it when I can. I have about a half dozen "Red Dirt" brand tomatoes in the backyard now :)
Try this link (http://www.madeinusa.org) for a start.
Still have to do some independent research though, thanks to guys like Tom Delay allowing items that are made in sweatshops in the Mariana Islands to be labelled "Made in the USA."
I have bought Vizio TV's as of late...not the greatest, but manufactured in the USA (albeit with some foreign components)...every little bit helps.
Also I don't buy any produce from non US origin.
Also I don't buy any produce from non US origin.
So you gave up bananas?
Chuck Bao
6/8/2011, 02:40 PM
Am I the only one who finds it really, really weird that the right wing republicans on this board refuse to accept that we live in a new age with a new global economy and very different rules?
I guess I shouldn't be too harsh in my posts because a lot of US economists really don't know what to do unless they use their historic data. In effect, the basis of their science has crashed and burned, unless they are based on a global economy.
Many still seem so locked into the idea that a tax cut is a cure-all for all economies all the time every time. That is almost as bad as when they demonize social programs and continually trot out "welfare mom" as exhibit "A". Good story to get the blood pumping and needed ramped up outrageage. The very sad thing is that in between there a lot of good folk suffering. Never you mind that, I have a job.
Position Limit
6/8/2011, 02:45 PM
Am I the only one who finds it really, really weird that the right wing republicans on this board refuse to accept that we live in a new age with a new global economy and very different rules?
I guess I shouldn't be too harsh in my posts because a lot of US economists really don't know what to do unless they use their historic data. In effect, the basis of their science has crashed and burned, unless they are based on a global economy.
Many still seem so locked into the idea that a tax cut is a cure-all for all economies all the time every time. That is almost as bad as when they demonize social programs and continually trot out "welfare mom" as exhibit "A". Good story to get the blood pumping and needed ramped up outrageage. The very sad thing is that in between there a lot of good folk suffering. Never you mind that, I have a job.
it's not just on this board. it's pervasive in that party. it's a truely regressive group of people. and i truely get tired of listening to tax breaks as a cure all. republicans have never gotten it right when it comes to taxes. the "welfare mom" is just one in a long list of bogey men that they use. there is zero ability to think outside the box.
SpankyNek
6/8/2011, 03:20 PM
Am I the only one who finds it really, really weird that the right wing republicans on this board refuse to accept that we live in a new age with a new global economy and very different rules?
I guess I shouldn't be too harsh in my posts because a lot of US economists really don't know what to do unless they use their historic data. In effect, the basis of their science has crashed and burned, unless they are based on a global economy.
Many still seem so locked into the idea that a tax cut is a cure-all for all economies all the time every time. That is almost as bad as when they demonize social programs and continually trot out "welfare mom" as exhibit "A". Good story to get the blood pumping and needed ramped up outrageage. The very sad thing is that in between there a lot of good folk suffering. Never you mind that, I have a job.
It is a strange dynamic. Capitalism always takes from the low class and gives it to the higher class...it always ends in an inverted funnel. The funny part about this, is if they continue to cling to this ideal, they have to hope for globalization, and at the same time firmly entrench our country as the top of the funnel...the gravy train can only continue when there is a lower class of people to skim from.
I don't see how "welfare mom" can ever trump "starving baby," but such is the case of the cold hearted morally ambiguous.
SpankyNek
6/8/2011, 03:20 PM
So you gave up bananas?
Was never a big fan anyway....at least I can get Hawaiian pineapples.
TheLadiesMike
6/8/2011, 04:45 PM
Am I the only one who finds it really, really weird that the right wing republicans on this board refuse to accept that we live in a new age with a new global economy and very different rules?
I guess I shouldn't be too harsh in my posts because a lot of US economists really don't know what to do unless they use their historic data. In effect, the basis of their science has crashed and burned, unless they are based on a global economy.
Many still seem so locked into the idea that a tax cut is a cure-all for all economies all the time every time. That is almost as bad as when they demonize social programs and continually trot out "welfare mom" as exhibit "A". Good story to get the blood pumping and needed ramped up outrageage. The very sad thing is that in between there a lot of good folk suffering. Never you mind that, I have a job.
And the left wing acts like taxing the rich and increased spending is going to fix the economy and society despite never working anywhere. Oh, things may seem fine for a while but eventually society becomes unbalanced with more taking than contributing.
pphilfran
6/8/2011, 05:00 PM
Both sides take far off center stances and dig in their heels...
Nancy has made her stance very clear...she ain't gonna give up any benefits...nada...never...
The most successful plans take parts from all parties and in compromise using the best of both...
Our DC employees fail to realize this simple fact...
They also have a total and complete disregard for deadlines...
Chuck Bao
6/8/2011, 05:14 PM
And the left wing acts like taxing the rich and increased spending is going to fix the economy and society despite never working anywhere. Oh, things may seem fine for a while but eventually society becomes unbalanced with more taking than contributing.
In a classical sense, I would have to agree. Theoretically, we should lower taxes and deficit spend during a recession and raise taxes and reduce spending during the boom periods. But, nobody ever does that.
The other problem is that so much leaks out of the system, such as US corporations investing overseas and transplanting jobs. There is very little that we can do about that. A rational person should conclude that the best and probably most efficient use of fiscal policy would be to slash corporate income taxes and substantially raise personal income taxes. Jobs can very easily be transferred overseas, but people not so much. Okay, that would be a very tough sell on election day.
pphilfran
6/8/2011, 05:19 PM
In a classical sense, I would have to agree. Theoretically, we should lower taxes and deficit spend during a recession and raise taxes and reduce spending during the boom periods. But, nobody ever does that.
The other problem is that so much leaks out of the system, such as US corporations investing overseas and transplanting jobs. There is very little that we can do about that. A rational person should conclude that the best and probably most efficient use of fiscal policy would be to slash corporate income taxes and substantially raise personal income taxes. Jobs can very easily be transferred overseas, but people not so much. Okay, that would be a very tough sell on election day.
You are correct...but the part that fails to get mentioned is that in good times you should be putting some back for the bad times...you can't spend everything you get during the good times and then go massively in debt during the bad....
pphilfran
6/8/2011, 05:20 PM
In a classical sense, I would have to agree. Theoretically, we should lower taxes and deficit spend during a recession and raise taxes and reduce spending during the boom periods. But, nobody ever does that.
The other problem is that so much leaks out of the system, such as US corporations investing overseas and transplanting jobs. There is very little that we can do about that. A rational person should conclude that the best and probably most efficient use of fiscal policy would be to slash corporate income taxes and substantially raise personal income taxes. Jobs can very easily be transferred overseas, but people not so much. Okay, that would be a very tough sell on election day.
Why are they investing overseas?
JohnnyMack
6/8/2011, 05:21 PM
Both sides take far off center stances and dig in their heels...
Nancy has made her stance very clear...she ain't gonna give up any benefits...nada...never...
The most successful plans take parts from all parties and in compromise using the best of both...
I totally agree. I will also add in that beyond Ron Paul you won't find a Republican POTUS candidate who'll even discuss reductions in military spending.
SpankyNek
6/8/2011, 05:24 PM
Why are they investing overseas?
Because their only concern is profit, and the new advent of e-trading over values the short term gain. Long term incremental dividends are often overlooked, and infrastructure investment takes too long to reap benefit when a person can make a mint leveraging yuan against purchases of Indian technology stocks.
pphilfran
6/8/2011, 05:25 PM
I totally agree. I will also add in that beyond Ron Paul you won't find a Republican POTUS candidate who'll even discuss reductions in military spending.
It is a shame...living in Lawton I reap big benefit from Sill...we also get quite a few articles about military costs and possible reductions...I think the military brass understand what is going to happen in the future...
I actually think they are ahead of our leaders in DC in working in that direction...it is too early to tell but I see some positive signs...
pphilfran
6/8/2011, 05:28 PM
Because their only concern is profit, and the new advent of e-trading over values the short term gain. Long term incremental dividends are often overlooked, and infrastructure investment takes too long to reap benefit when a person can make a mint leveraging yuan against stock purchases of Indian technology stocks.
You think US corp should not use lower cost manufacturing facilities that are being used by the offshore competition?
Doesn't that give the offshore boys a leg up on price?
Could that not lead to less profitability and lower market share?
Could than not lead to slower expansion or even contraction?
Why is it cheaper to manufacture off shore and ship to store shelves than it to manufacture it in the US?
RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
6/8/2011, 05:29 PM
Because it would surprise me that the entire cabinet could get away with not paying any taxes (per cruiser).
Why do you ask?You don't realize the true nature of the Obear Regime, do you?
pphilfran
6/8/2011, 05:30 PM
Stay out of this clone...you will gum up the works.... ;)
RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
6/8/2011, 05:31 PM
Don't buy any products not manufactured in the USA....this can be rather costly and takes a LOT of research to accomplish, but if just 15% of us would do it, it would make a HUGE difference.Better yet, don't buy any USA products produced by unionized businesses. That would help even more.
One of our liberal neighbors yesterday said that Obama was acting Republican. I giggled, thinking what Republicans would think about such a statement :D
So, lowering and raising taxes is not the answer. If the answer doesn't involve taxes, what does the answer involve?
RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
6/8/2011, 05:39 PM
Stay out of this clone...you will gum up the works.... ;)RLIMC. He doesn't ever post here.
SpankyNek
6/8/2011, 05:43 PM
You think US corp should not use lower cost manufacturing facilities that are being used by the offshore competition?
Doesn't that give the offshore boys a leg up on price?
Could that not lead to less profitability and lower market share?
Could than not lead to slower expansion or even contraction?
Why is it cheaper to manufacture off shore and ship to store shelves than it to manufacture it in the US?
It is largely due to unfair trade deals done with countries that use government subsidized industry.
Do you think Nixon would have nixed his champagne with Mao if he had known we would become addicted to their products and incur debt equivalent to a decade of production?
Anything that comes into a port should be taxed heavily, regardless of what that might do to the future of McDonald's franchises in Beijing.
RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
6/8/2011, 05:57 PM
Anything that comes into a port should be taxed heavily, regardless of what that might do to the future of McDonald's franchises in Beijing.Unghhh!
pphilfran
6/8/2011, 06:06 PM
It is largely due to unfair trade deals done with countries that use government subsidized industry.
Do you think Nixon would have nixed his champagne with Mao if he had known we would become addicted to their products and incur debt equivalent to a decade of production?
Anything that comes into a port should be taxed heavily, regardless of what that might do to the future of McDonald's franchises in Beijing.
So...it is not actually big business being at fault...actually stupid leadership over the decades...
SpankyNek
6/8/2011, 06:23 PM
So...it is not actually big business being at fault...actually stupid leadership over the decades...
Stupid leadership is the root cause (although the trade decisions at the time were a boon to American business interests, I am sure that big business had a lot of heft in those decisions, and therefore should shoulder some of the blame), but there has been little done by the elected officials in Washington that represent (supposedly) local interests, even less of an effort by business to do what is right by the country that made them successful, and also very little by consumers to reward companies that abide ethically even though their products cost more or their stocks give smaller returns.
BP is probably a solid investment....but I think a person that would give them money is an a$$hole.
JohnnyMack
6/9/2011, 07:49 AM
It is a shame...living in Lawton I reap big benefit from Sill...we also get quite a few articles about military costs and possible reductions...I think the military brass understand what is going to happen in the future...
I actually think they are ahead of our leaders in DC in working in that direction...it is too early to tell but I see some positive signs...
http://www.wilsoncenter.org/events/docs/A%20National%20Strategic%20Narrative.pdf
I thought this was interesting. Came out several weeks ago.
SanJoaquinSooner
6/9/2011, 08:58 AM
It is largely due to unfair trade deals done with countries that use government subsidized industry.
Do you think Nixon would have nixed his champagne with Mao if he had known we would become addicted to their products and incur debt equivalent to a decade of production?
Anything that comes into a port should be taxed heavily, regardless of what that might do to the future of McDonald's franchises in Beijing.
I'm not sure how a barrel of imported oil is already taxed, but I don't favor taxing it heavily - if that means it's costing the American consumer and businesses more than it already is.
Also, if imported materials are heavily taxed, American manufacturers using those products would suffer.
And as far as finished products, to get a gauge what you mean by "heavily taxed" - how much would you tax a $1000 imported TV?
SpankyNek
6/9/2011, 10:45 AM
I'm not sure how a barrel of imported oil is already taxed, but I don't favor taxing it heavily - if that means it's costing the American consumer and businesses more than it already is.
Also, if imported materials are heavily taxed, American manufacturers using those products would suffer.
And as far as finished products, to get a gauge what you mean by "heavily taxed" - how much would you tax a $1000 imported TV?
I think that we should be taxing gasoline at a much higher rate, taxing the oil as it is imported would help deflect some of the end market taxes, but the result would be the same...we should not be burning up non renewable oil as a fuel. We should be using it to make materials which can then be recycled and used again. Imagine if all of the plastic in our landfills had been used as construction materials...or if we hadn't decided to just burn a bunch of it. Everyone agrees that we should stop being dependent on foreign oil...this is the only way to do it.
American manufacturing should be rewarded for using American made supply. Letting those companies that use only American parts and labor have an advantage in the market is beneficial to everyone in the long run. Inflation is imminent no matter what...why not keep the money at home?
I would say about 25% on the TV question. This increases the amount in our coffers (via the tariff), and at the same time gives US mfg a leg up. End result is that the consumer will have to pay 1100 dollars when he could have had one for 1000 dollars, however, the baseline would continue to fall.
Tulsa_Fireman
6/9/2011, 10:51 AM
But wouldn't american manufacturers, seeing the discrepancy in consumer end pricing because of the tariffs, simply increase price to match what the market holds in imported goods?
I would. If a $1000 imported TV is now $1250 because of tariffs and I as a business owner/CEO had trouble competing at the $1000 price point, my TV would now be a $1250 american TV with the added benefit of being able to say, "Made in the USA".
I wish I could personally do something to help. Is there something the average joe (or average badger) can do to help with this unemployment mess?
I vote.
I pay taxes.
I don't have outstanding debts and don't spend beyond my means.
I live healthy-like.
I carpool to work.
Hmmm...
Stop doing the last 3 things.
SpankyNek
6/9/2011, 11:00 AM
But wouldn't american manufacturers, seeing the discrepancy in consumer end pricing because of the tariffs, simply increase price to match what the market holds in imported goods?
I would. If a $1000 imported TV is now $1250 because of tariffs and I as a business owner/CEO had trouble competing at the $1000 price point, my TV would now be a $1250 american TV with the added benefit of being able to say, "Made in the USA".
Just because you would go in an unethical direction does not mean everyone would.
A Vizio TV (for example) is priced under the equivalent Sony product already. The discount pricing model has proven more and more effective over time. Wal-Mart, 99cents only stores.
I don't think that you would see a company decide not to use the price advantage along with the Made in the USA advantage. If you were having trouble competing at the $1k price point, why would you dissolve your advantage, only to (obviously) have trouble competing at the $1250 price point?
bigfatjerk
6/9/2011, 11:03 AM
Anything that comes into a port should be taxed heavily, regardless of what that might do to the future of McDonald's franchises in Beijing.
That really worked in the early 30s.
Tulsa_Fireman
6/9/2011, 11:06 AM
Just because you would go in an unethical direction does not mean everyone would.
A Vizio TV (for example) is priced under the equivalent Sony product already. The discount pricing model has proven more and more effective over time. Wal-Mart, 99cents only stores.
I don't think that you would see a company decide not to use the price advantage along with the Made in the USA advantage. If you were having trouble competing at the $1k price point, why would you dissolve your advantage, only to (obviously) have trouble competing at the $1250 price point?
$1150, then. Point being, what incentive does the American manufacturer have to remain ethical? There's an opportunity to increase profit AND secure increased sales, the very premise of their business. And while it sounds great for US manufacturing and jobs, the ultimate brunt of the tariffs are laid on the consumer.
bigfatjerk
6/9/2011, 11:10 AM
Tarriffs only work if the US makes good products. And I don't see the US going back to making good products with or without tarriffs all it will do is hurt the very job market it's meant to protect. There needs to be a cultural change in politics to not vilify making money the right way. That's the only way to help the manufacturing sector. Taxing more never really works because we just won't raise it enough.
Bourbon St Sooner
6/9/2011, 12:49 PM
as long as GKeeper refuses to pay more for his subs so that Subway can pay its employees a sustainable income, there will be very little economic recovery.
FIFY scrooge!
SpankyNek
6/9/2011, 02:14 PM
Tarriffs only work if the US makes good products. And I don't see the US going back to making good products with or without tarriffs all it will do is hurt the very job market it's meant to protect. There needs to be a cultural change in politics to not vilify making money the right way. That's the only way to help the manufacturing sector. Taxing more never really works because we just won't raise it enough.
Mind telling me which products are you concerned with?
There is a decent American alternative for nearly every purchase..might be more expensive, or (more likely) less sexy....bu they're out there.
We have created a society of consumers....people are far too concerned with price...quality doesn't matter to most Americans, convenience does.
bigfatjerk
6/9/2011, 02:59 PM
Mind telling me which products are you concerned with?
There is a decent American alternative for nearly every purchase..might be more expensive, or (more likely) less sexy....bu they're out there.
We have created a society of consumers....people are far too concerned with price...quality doesn't matter to most Americans, convenience does.
If we are a consumer nation we need to be taxed that way. Let everyone keep their income tax and tax only based on consumption.
RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
6/9/2011, 03:01 PM
We have created a society of consumers....people are far too concerned with price...quality doesn't matter to most Americans, convenience does.People shouldn't worry about how our own people are sticking it to us? You agree with the Obear. Big Surprise! haha
Tulsa_Fireman
6/9/2011, 03:02 PM
You're an idiot.
Big surprise! haha
RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
6/9/2011, 03:10 PM
You're an idiot.
Big surprise! hahaHere, creative one, take an oxycontin.
Tulsa_Fireman
6/9/2011, 03:12 PM
I can't!
Rush Limbaugh stole my prescription.
RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
6/9/2011, 03:14 PM
I can't!
Rush Limbaugh stole my prescription.STRIKE 2, creative one!
JohnnyMack
6/9/2011, 03:16 PM
People shouldn't worry about how our own people are sticking it to us? You agree with the Obear. Big Surprise! haha
What does the "Obear" reference mean? I honestly don't know.
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