View Full Version : US Unfunded Liabilities 61.6 Trillion
sappstuf
6/7/2011, 12:40 PM
Can someone on the left please explain how we can tax our way out of that?
For some perspective, the world GDP is $58.2 Trillion...
We can print billions of million dollar bills and call it even.
TheHumanAlphabet
6/7/2011, 12:56 PM
Going to pot... Congress and the pres. needs to step up, kill "entitlements" because no one is entitled to anything, you need to earn it and expectations really need to be lowered for the Baby Boomers and SS.
I now more than ever, think my money has been stolen and I will not get benefit of what has been taken from me.
Jammin'
6/7/2011, 12:57 PM
Going to pot... Congress and the pres. needs to step up, kill "entitlements" because no one is entitled to anything, you need to earn it and expectations really need to be lowered for the Baby Boomers and SS.
I now more than ever, think my money has been stolen and I will not get benefit of what has been taken from me.
Whew, I thought you were going to say legalize weed there for a minute.
lexsooner
6/7/2011, 12:57 PM
We can print billions of million dollar bills and call it even.
Great idea! Also, can the U.S. Treasury make some fake "mistake" coins or bills and then claim they are extremely rare like that stamp of the upside down airplane, and then sell it to some rich collectors? That should put a dent into our liabilities.
You people don't seem to understand how finance works at the higher end of the spectrum.
Budgets of billions or trillions don't operate like household numbers. They are so interwoven with thousands and thousands of financial instruments, they cease being "real" numbers, and are more accurately thought of as abstractions of "real" (read:household) money. In essence, when money reaches a certain level, it transubstatiates into a philosophical entity, and operates under rules that have no meaning for money that is lower than it's level.
lexsooner
6/7/2011, 01:10 PM
You people don't seem to understand how finance works at the higher end of the spectrum.
Budgets of billions or trillions don't operate like household numbers. They are so interwoven with thousands and thousands of financial instruments, they cease being "real" numbers, and are more accurately thought of as abstractions of "real" (read:household) money. In essence, when money reaches a certain level, it transubstatiates into a philosophical entity, and operates under rules that have no meaning for money that is lower than it's level.
So you are saying the phony mistake coins and stamps would not work?
soonerscuba
6/7/2011, 01:10 PM
Can someone on the left please explain how we can tax our way out of that?
For some perspective, the world GDP is $58.2 Trillion...We can't, we will have to inflate our way out of it. On the flip, you don't think tax cuts have figured into that number?
So you are saying the phony mistake coins and stamps would not work?
Probably just as well as anything else our house of cards style global finance market can do.
You people don't seem to understand how finance works at the higher end of the spectrum.
Budgets of billions or trillions don't operate like household numbers. They are so interwoven with thousands and thousands of financial instruments, they cease being "real" numbers, and are more accurately thought of as abstractions of "real" (read:household) money. In essence, when money reaches a certain level, it transubstatiates into a philosophical entity, and operates under rules that have no meaning for money that is lower than it's level.
http://catholicphoenix.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Dials.jpg
By the way, who came up with these numbers? Because if it was Dr. Evil we need to take it with a grain of salt.
Wow, and by coincidence Dr. Evil posted above me! I smell a plot!
Wow, and by coincidence Dr. Evil posted above me! I smell a plot!
Does it smell like cabbage?
Bourbon St Sooner
6/7/2011, 01:18 PM
Inflation. It's not just for Weimar Germany anymore.
I said Weimar, not Weiner, so no tweets please.
delhalew
6/7/2011, 01:52 PM
Let it Ride!...
GKeeper316
6/7/2011, 02:11 PM
Going to pot... Congress and the pres. needs to step up, kill "entitlements" because no one is entitled to anything, you need to earn it and expectations really need to be lowered for the Baby Boomers and SS.
I now more than ever, think my money has been stolen and I will not get benefit of what has been taken from me.
the gi bill is an entitlement program. disability is an entitlement program. id love to be there when you tell some wheelchair bound MS patient that he isn't entitled to some government assistence to pay his rent so he isn't forced out on the street because he suffers from a medical condition that prevents his body from working, which prevents him from being able to earn a living on his own.
what we need to do is revert to the clinton tax brackets
Penguin
6/7/2011, 02:17 PM
We'll probably just have to create a new financial system. Scrap the Federal Reserve system. Right now, the only reason that a dollar is worth a dollar is because you and I agree that it is worth a dollar. That's about as solid as our financial system is. So, why don't we just agree that we no longer have debt? It sounds as reasonable as our current system.
Plan B: We need to concentrate on building space-faring warships and make conquering wealthy planets our number one goal.
Plan B: We need to concentrate on building space-faring warships and make conquering wealthy planets our number one goal.
Now this idea has legs
TheLadiesMike
6/7/2011, 02:32 PM
what we need to do is revert to the clinton tax brackets
That would not solve the problem at all, these programs were doomed when he was President, too.
Jammin'
6/7/2011, 02:34 PM
Now this idea has legs
That's too bad. If it didn't have legs it would get federal assistance.
TheHumanAlphabet
6/7/2011, 02:36 PM
the gi bill is an entitlement program. disability is an entitlement program. id love to be there when you tell some wheelchair bound MS patient that he isn't entitled to some government assistence to pay his rent so he isn't forced out on the street because he suffers from a medical condition that prevents his body from working, which prevents him from being able to earn a living on his own.
what we need to do is revert to the clinton tax brackets
Way to go and distort the message.
You know what I mean and you troll out that I am against the GI bill, this was earned by the soldiers and sailors, not given freely like food stamps and 100 week + unemployment. Congressional leaders already suspect shenigans with SSI and Disability and are calling for investigations. These programs need to be reviewed for fraud.
GKeeper316
6/7/2011, 02:39 PM
That would not solve the problem at all, these programs were doomed when he was President, too.
uh-huh, right, right...
thats why the united states experience one of its greatest periods of prosperity in the last hundred years under clinton. yes, the rise of the internet played a large part in that, but the internet was funded by federal dollars loaned to private corporations.
what we need to do first is put the banking regulations back in place so the commercial banks start loaning money to the people instead of the investment banks. the deregulation of the banks has only worked out well for the banks.
Not everything has to do with politics, morans.
Politics are the reflection of the will of money, not vice versa.
GKeeper316
6/7/2011, 02:41 PM
Way to go and distort the message.
You know what I mean and you troll out that I am against the GI bill, this was earned by the soldiers and sailors, not given freely like food stamps and 100 week + unemployment. Congressional leaders already suspect shenigans with SSI and Disability and are calling for investigations. These programs need to be reviewed for fraud.
i agree, but thats not what you said. you said get rid of entitlements. that isnt possible, nor is it at all rational or moral.
if you had said tighter restrictions on the availability of entitlement funds, i dont think anyone would disagree with you, but you just lumped all entitlement programs together as the root cause of our current economic problems.
if you don't want your message "distorted" then be accurate with the message in the first damn place.
Right now, the only reason that a dollar is worth a dollar is because you and I agree that it is worth a dollar.
This may be being picky, but isn't that how the value of everything is determined?
pphilfran
6/7/2011, 02:46 PM
uh-huh, right, right...
thats why the united states experience one of its greatest periods of prosperity in the last hundred years under clinton. yes, the rise of the internet played a large part in that, but the internet was funded by federal dollars loaned to private corporations.
what we need to do first is put the banking regulations back in place so the commercial banks start loaning money to the people instead of the investment banks. the deregulation of the banks has only worked out well for the banks.
The internet had little to do with the 90's economy...
The driving force was the pc and its use to help productivity in the workplace...
Toss in excessively low interest rates....a dash of loose regulations that allowed home sales and prices to escalate to unsustainable levels...
And you have the foundation for the current fiscal problems...
GKeeper316
6/7/2011, 02:46 PM
This may be being picky, but isn't that how the value of everything is determined?
yes, it is.
its the fractional reserve system that modern banks use to create money.
The internet had little to do with the 90's economy...
The driving force was the pc and its use to help productivity in the workplace...
Toss in excessively low interest rates....a dash of loose regulations that allowed home sales and prices to escalate to unsustainable levels...
And you have the foundation for the current fiscal problems...
Why do you hate the FREE MARKET, SOCIALIST???!!!!!!
TheHumanAlphabet
6/7/2011, 02:48 PM
i agree, but thats not what you said. you said get rid of entitlements. that isnt possible, nor is it at all rational or moral.
if you had said tighter restrictions on the availability of entitlement funds, i dont think anyone would disagree with you, but you just lumped all entitlement programs together as the root cause of our current economic problems.
if you don't want your message "distorted" then be accurate with the message in the first damn place.
I'll be sure to parse my words better in the future.
GKeeper316
6/7/2011, 02:51 PM
Why do you hate the FREE MARKET, SOCIALIST???!!!!!!
republicans dont really care about free markets. if they did, we could all buy whatever drugs we wanted and i'd have an elle macpherson circa 1992 clone chained up in my basement.
republicans only like free markets they aren't morally opposed to.
pphilfran
6/7/2011, 03:07 PM
Why do you hate the FREE MARKET, SOCIALIST???!!!!!!
Dat me...and proud of it...
soonercruiser
6/7/2011, 04:39 PM
Can someone on the left please explain how we can tax our way out of that?
For some perspective, the world GDP is $58.2 Trillion...
It IS THEIR PLAN!
No warning the people....just say everything is OK, like Harry Reid.
When the economy, the dollar, and social programs fail...the whole country will collapse into chaos! This is what the statists want!
This is what Obama, Soros, and his minions want!
:mad:
JohnnyMack
6/7/2011, 04:42 PM
Plan B: We need to concentrate on building space-faring warships and make conquering wealthy planets our number one goal.
**** it. I'm joining the Space Marines!
diverdog
6/7/2011, 06:01 PM
Can someone on the left please explain how we can tax our way out of that?
For some perspective, the world GDP is $58.2 Trillion...
Over what period of time?
BTW your government retirement is part of that unfunded liability. Just say'in.
diverdog
6/7/2011, 06:02 PM
The internet had little to do with the 90's economy...
The driving force was the pc and its use to help productivity in the workplace...
Toss in excessively low interest rates....a dash of loose regulations that allowed home sales and prices to escalate to unsustainable levels...
And you have the foundation for the current fiscal problems...
Oh I would say there was more than a "dash" of loose regulations. I think a chit load would be more like it.
Al Gore
6/7/2011, 06:21 PM
Maybe Wiener can sell pics of his wiener?
jkjsooner
6/7/2011, 06:47 PM
We'll probably just have to create a new financial system. Scrap the Federal Reserve system. Right now, the only reason that a dollar is worth a dollar is because you and I agree that it is worth a dollar. That's about as solid as our financial system is. So, why don't we just agree that we no longer have debt? It sounds as reasonable as our current system.
.
Show me a single monetary system in the history of the world that does not fit this paradigm. Even if it's backed by gold, gold is only worth what agree that it is worth.
OUinFLA
6/7/2011, 06:55 PM
.... i'd have an elle macpherson circa 1992 clone chained up in my basement....................
where can I order one of those?
Ill help stimulate the economy with a few bucks.
soonercoop1
6/7/2011, 06:56 PM
The internet had little to do with the 90's economy...
The driving force was the pc and its use to help productivity in the workplace...
Toss in excessively low interest rates....a dash of loose regulations that allowed home sales and prices to escalate to unsustainable levels...
And you have the foundation for the current fiscal problems...
Thought I saw an article where some in congress are pushing the same bad loans again...hope I was wrong...
AlboSooner
6/7/2011, 07:47 PM
I hope are past the point where we think there are easy fixes, and one side has the answer.
GKeeper316
6/7/2011, 07:54 PM
where can I order one of those?
Ill help stimulate the economy with a few bucks.
thats what im sayin!
call your congressmen and tell em we want the ban on human cloning lifted so we can have our elle macpherson circa 1992 sex slave clones!!!!
the only objection anyone could have is a moral objection, right?
soonercruiser
6/7/2011, 08:56 PM
**** it. I'm joining the Space Marines!
"PIGS IN SPAAAAAAAAACE"!
:D
diverdog
6/7/2011, 09:19 PM
Thought I saw an article where some in congress are pushing the same bad loans again...hope I was wrong...
coop:
I am not aware of congress pushing any bad loans. The requirement to buy a home is much stricter now.
EnragedOUfan
6/7/2011, 10:55 PM
Dropping money everyday to Iraq, Afghanistan, and aid to Pakistan would be a start. It just amazes me, this country has been at war for over 10 years now, the country is broke as sh#t, and it seems the funding of these wars is still overlooked by our politicians. It has become so normal, that no one seems concerned anymore on how much money is spent to support the troops, missions, government contractors, and daily operations over there. It has been brainwashed effectively into our heads that cutting everything is the answer. I always hear it, and I'm tired of hearing it, when people say that our troops our fighting for our "freedom" over there. Our mission in Afghanistan is not about our freedom folks, nor was the Iraq war.
TheLadiesMike
6/8/2011, 10:46 AM
uh-huh, right, right...
thats why the united states experience one of its greatest periods of prosperity in the last hundred years under clinton. yes, the rise of the internet played a large part in that, but the internet was funded by federal dollars loaned to private corporations.
what we need to do first is put the banking regulations back in place so the commercial banks start loaning money to the people instead of the investment banks. the deregulation of the banks has only worked out well for the banks.
We had lot's of economic growth but the entitlement programs were still doomed. This is really not a complex idea. When Social Security started there were about 15 workers to every retiree. We're down to a 3 to 1 ratio or so. People are living longer and having fewer kids. Those people that live longer also continue to use Medicare longer. This really is not complicated, but you deny basic facts and change the subject to banks, when the issue is that these entitlement programs are on course to pay out trillions more than they take in over the next few decades. Simply raising taxes on everyone by a couple of percent won't solve the problem.
pphilfran
6/8/2011, 10:54 AM
We had lot's of economic growth but the entitlement programs were still doomed. This is really not a complex idea. When Social Security started there were about 15 workers to every retiree. We're down to a 3 to 1 ratio or so. People are living longer and having fewer kids. Those people that live longer also continue to use Medicare longer. This really is not complicated, but you deny basic facts and change the subject to banks, when the issue is that these entitlement programs are on course to pay out trillions more than they take in over the next few decades. Simply raising taxes on everyone by a couple of percent won't solve the problem.
SS is a simple fix...you gots two choices...raise the limit by 20 or 30 k and raise the age where you get SS...do both slowly and it will be relatively painless..we get through the next 40 years and us Baby Boomers will be worm food and things will be golden...
Medicare... I ain't got a clue how to reign in costs....this will be a nightmare to resolve...
sappstuf
6/8/2011, 11:03 AM
SS is a simple fix...you gots two choices...raise the limit by 20 or 30 k and raise the age where you get SS...do both slowly and it will be relatively painless..we get through the next 40 years and us Baby Boomers will be worm food and things will be golden...
Medicare... I ain't got a clue how to reign in costs....this will be a nightmare to resolve...
Three choices.. Let Medicare go bankrupt by doing nothing and with all the old people dying early SS takes care of itself.
The Democrats plan is brilliant in its simplicity and is the reason I have switched over recently. It is the better choice for myself and my children. Of course my parents may not like it, but this is about "Winning the Future"!
soonerscuba
6/8/2011, 11:05 AM
Medicare... I ain't got a clue how to reign in costs....this will be a nightmare to resolve...Authorizing collective bargaining for it is a start.
JohnnyMack
6/8/2011, 11:13 AM
Medicare... I ain't got a clue how to reign in costs....this will be a nightmare to resolve...
You need a healthier population. Something neither side has figured out in their slapfest.
pphilfran
6/8/2011, 11:16 AM
You need a healthier population. Something neither side has figured out in their slapfest.
I am going to bust your bubble on this one...
Many, many studies have shown that healthier people live longer and develop very costly disabilities...
It is actually cheaper to have fat and sick people that die young than slim, trim, healthy folks that live to a ripe old age...
Do a search....
Jammin'
6/8/2011, 11:28 AM
Dropping money everyday to Iraq, Afghanistan, and aid to Pakistan would be a start. It just amazes me, this country has been at war for over 10 years now, the country is broke as sh#t, and it seems the funding of these wars is still overlooked by our politicians. It has become so normal, that no one seems concerned anymore on how much money is spent to support the troops, missions, government contractors, and daily operations over there. It has been brainwashed effectively into our heads that cutting everything is the answer. I always hear it, and I'm tired of hearing it, when people say that our troops our fighting for our "freedom" over there. Our mission in Afghanistan is not about our freedom folks, nor was the Iraq war.
I like some of this. Some of you smarter people, tell me why we have to continue to pour money into the middle east while our economy, ss, schools, etc... go to ****. Seems we should be trying to fix us and not them. TIA.
pphilfran
6/8/2011, 11:32 AM
I like some of this. Some of you smarter people, tell me why we have to continue to pour money into the middle east while our economy, ss, schools, etc... go to ****. Seems we should be trying to fix us and not them. TIA.
You can't just pull everybody out all at once and leave the country on it's own...the quicker we can pull it off the better....but we must be sensible in our expectations....
Then you would have to cut spending to the war machine....cut too deep and you have a bunch of military folks/war machine employees laid off and looking for a job...we must be sensible in our expectations....
Jammin'
6/8/2011, 11:33 AM
You can't just pull everybody out all at once and leave the country on it's own...the quicker we can pull it off the better....but we must be sensible in our expectations....
Then you would have to cut spending to the war machine....cut too deep and you have a bunch of military folks/war machine employees laid off and looking for a job...we must be sensible in our expectations....
I'm good with your suggestions on our military. Why do we continue to give billions of dollars to countries over there though?
pphilfran
6/8/2011, 11:35 AM
I'm good with your suggestions on our military. Why do we continue to give billions of dollars to countries over there though?
Uhhhhhhh......
Jammin'
6/8/2011, 11:45 AM
Uhhhhhhh......
I see.
JohnnyMack
6/8/2011, 01:14 PM
I am going to bust your bubble on this one...
Many, many studies have shown that healthier people live longer and develop very costly disabilities...
It is actually cheaper to have fat and sick people that die young than slim, trim, healthy folks that live to a ripe old age...
Do a search....
I'm sure there are countless studies paid for by countless groups that all argue the merits of the people that paid them to do the study in the first place.
I have a hard time believing that level of education and overall health aren't directly correlated.
Tulsa_Fireman
6/8/2011, 01:31 PM
I have a hard time believing that level of education and overall health aren't directly correlated.
They aren't.
I'm healthy and stupid. STUDIES HAVE PROVED IT.
Jammin'
6/8/2011, 01:32 PM
They aren't.
I'm healthy and stupid. STUDIES HAVE PROVED IT.
And I'm educated and fat.
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