View Full Version : Good News!!!!!!!!!!!
Agriculture industry faces labor woes as immigration overhaul stalls again in Washington
06-04-2011 10:08 AM CDT |By ALICIA A. CALDWELL, Associated Press
WASHINGTON (Associated Press) --
The agriculture industry fears a disaster is on the horizon if the one bit of new immigration policy that Congress seems to agree on becomes law.
A plan to require all American businesses to run their employees through E-Verify, a program that confirms each is legally entitled to work in the U.S., could wreak havoc on an industry where 80 percent of the field workers are illegal immigrants. So could the increased paperwork audits already under way by the Obama administration.
"We are headed toward a train wreck," said Rep. Zoe Lofgren, a California Democrat whose district includes agriculture-rich areas. "The stepped up (workplace) enforcement has brought this to a head."
FILE - In this Dec. 10, 2008, file photo Shawn Coburn, a farmer who grows thousands of acres of almonds on the west side of Central California's Fresno County, and his foreman, Juan Guadian, right, inspect an almond orchard in Mendota, Calif. Coburn, who is politically active, said the mandatory E-Verify plan, which would require all American businesses to confirm their employees are legally entitled to work in the U.S., would be disastrous. "I don't think it's going to happen, but if it does it would throw the California economy for a loop," he said of an industry where 80 percent of the field workers are illegal immigrants. (AP Photo/Marcio Jose Sanchez, File)
http://ww2.cox.com/myconnection/oklahomacity/today/news/national/article.cox?articleId=D9NL4L182&moduleType=apNews
Outstanding!!!!
http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af24/okie54/hsipaniccrying.jpg
.
XingTheRubicon
6/4/2011, 11:17 AM
E-Verify or GTFO
pphilfran
6/4/2011, 11:18 AM
What a damn shame...hate to hear it....
i'm not really sure how that's good news, but listening to businesses whine about not being able to illegally exploit illegal workers is a little comical
hawaii 5-0
6/4/2011, 11:24 AM
Great Republican Stimulus Plan !
I just don't see the part where they give massive tax breaks to Corporations and the wealthy. It's gotta be there somewhere.
5-0
Trump/Juan 2012
pphilfran
6/4/2011, 11:29 AM
i'm not really sure how that's good news, but listening to businesses whine about not being able to illegally exploit illegal workers is a little comical
It would drop unemployment...
it would give a raise to lower income workers....
Could lead to auto picking machines instead of manual labor....
Produce costs would not increase significantly...there is a good labor report out of Florida that give the labor cost of various fruits and veggies...if I get motivated I will look it up and post the link....
XingTheRubicon
6/4/2011, 12:25 PM
I imagine there's a few million people on their 88th week of sitting on their *ss collecting unemployment that could fill that void.
Well, I bet they'd take those jobs if they got a little hungry.
Great Republican Stimulus Plan !
I just don't see the part where they give massive tax breaks to Corporations and the wealthy. It's gotta be there somewhere.
5-0
Trump/Juan 2012
Apparently you (like Obama) support employers that hire illegals.
Have the tax codes changed in the last decade on the marginal rates?
Are you still getting your "massive" tax break?
OULenexaman
6/4/2011, 01:06 PM
so Obama has been lying to all the messicans all this time....no surprise.
Breadburner
6/4/2011, 01:27 PM
Pay now or pay later......
Sooner_Tuf
6/4/2011, 01:36 PM
Baby steps, maybe we should just get them a hand washing station so we don't get e-coli from our veggies.
soonercoop1
6/5/2011, 07:11 AM
Easy answer...prison labor
SanJoaquinSooner
6/5/2011, 09:42 AM
It would drop unemployment...
it would give a raise to lower income workers....
Could lead to auto picking machines instead of manual labor....
Produce costs would not increase significantly...there is a good labor report out of Florida that give the labor cost of various fruits and veggies...if I get motivated I will look it up and post the link....
Phil, you're usually a bit more business savvy than this.
It's a world market. For example, here in San Joaquin County, cherries are in season. A third of the crop is exported to Asia. They are premium cherries that bring top dollar and cannot be auto-picked, as they bruise. They are picked ripe and flown on commercial flights.
Food products, like many things, can have elastic demand. It the price goes up enough people will find an alternative or do without. A business can't just raise prices to cover production costs without the risk of going out of business.
It's not as simple as offering a higher wage to attract those who otherwise won't take the job. You need workers who are productive and reliable. If you bring in workers who can harvest only 50% as much as your best workers, per unit time, you may extend harvest beyond the peak harvest window. Or you may need twice as many workers. Or if your employment turnover rate quadruples (as it did in the Swift meatpacking situation a few years ago) because your new set of employees decide working for a living isn't as fun as they thought, then your business suffers immeasurably.
Having lived in San Joaquin County for many years, I've heard the same stories many times. The college student shows up to pick onions the Monday morning in the summer, goes to lunch after a few hours in the fields, and never returns. Same story for welfare moms, teachers who need summer money, etc. And none of them starve as a result.
And soonercoop1 offers the ultimate suggestion:
"Let's take the best workers and, by gov't mandate, replace them with society's most dysfunctional, most unreliable, least productive people." Now that's a business plan that gives old Soviet burearcrats wet dreams.
E-verify does not assure the workers are legal. It assures the social security number being used is an eligible number that matches the name given. There is a 5% false negative rate and a 50% false positive rate. Instead of making e-verify mandatory, the gov't should set up biometric g-verify kiosks at every port of entry so that guest workers can pick up their worker visas to allow them to work legally.
Phil, as you mentioned in another thread, businesses aren't in business to create jobs but to make a profit. If we are going to have any chance of competing with China and India in the world markets, we can't overregulate businesses and force them out of business through increased production costs. Exports are our best hope for continued economic dominance.
olevetonahill
6/5/2011, 09:57 AM
jaun. hate to say it but I agree with you some what.
I dont mind the Migrant workers, BUT lets make sure they GO home after the season is over and any kids born while they are here go with them as citizens of Mexico.;)
I agree the Folks who say Let the welfare moms and the Bums do this work aint ever done this kind of labor. Can you imagine THIS on a ladder? Oh yea sompun gonna get bruised.:eek:
http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Business/images-3/fat-woman.jpg
Ole Juan is afraid a lot of his relatives are going to be sent packing. No more migrant night school for kids that just crawled under the fence.
Juan isn't big on talking about the external costs to taxpayers for illegals being in this country....you know, hospitals, schools, government benefits, etc....
Evirify isn't foolproof but it is a he11 of a lot better than just submitting a W9 with a bogus SS#. Obviously it has some illegal employers as well as illegal supporters scared because they are certainly squawking about it.
Juan is right about most businesses...their bottom line is profits and they don't care if it is good or bad for the country or environment. Any business is going to salivate at the idea of paying a labor force a minimal wage and having the tax payers pick up the rest of the costs for their illegal stay here.
Wages will most definitely go up and the ag industry will definitely have to employ more American citizens....not a bad thing except to those that want their relatives from down south to live here at America's expense.
SanJoaquinSooner
6/5/2011, 11:40 AM
Ole Juan is afraid a lot of his relatives are going to be sent packing. No more migrant night school for kids that just crawled under the fence.
Juan isn't big on talking about the external costs to taxpayers for illegals being in this country....you know, hospitals, schools, government benefits, etc....
Evirify isn't foolproof but it is a he11 of a lot better than just submitting a W9 with a bogus SS#. Obviously it has some illegal employers as well as illegal supporters scared because they are certainly squawking about it.
Juan is right about most businesses...their bottom line is profits and they don't care if it is good or bad for the country or environment. Any business is going to salivate at the idea of paying a labor force a minimal wage and having the tax payers pick up the rest of the costs for their illegal stay here.
Wages will most definitely go up and the ag industry will definitely have to employ more American citizens....not a bad thing except to those that want their relatives from down south to live here at America's expense.
Well, Okie ...
t3GnWTy8Ebg
I am not defending the present system that led to illegal immigration. I am anti-illegal immigration. I advocate a free and LEGAL movement of labor. See my g-verify comment. It should be as easy for Mexicans to come to work in the fields as it is for Canadians to work on Saturday Night Live.... As if by paying poor unemployed US citizen comedians more money, SNL would be funnier.
I have no problem with kicking people who don't work out of the country.
Well, Okie ...
t3GnWTy8Ebg
I am not defending the present system that led to illegal immigration. I am anti-illegal immigration. I advocate a free and LEGAL movement of labor. See my g-verify comment. It should be as easy for Mexicans to come to work in the fields as it is for Canadians to work on Saturday Night Live.... As if by paying poor unemployed US citizen comedians more money, SNL would be funnier.
I have no problem with kicking people who don't work out of the country.
I know, I know....you are a true libertarian.
If those from south of the border did just that.....worked, returned home, no citizenship for them or their offspring, no benefits, I would be less opposed to such a program.
Immigration should be about bringing the brightest minds, skilled labor, etc...to this country rather than embracing an uneducated burden for posterity.
Besides, I want our country to shrink in size (as I do the world) rather than grow. The highest breeders in the country are the illegals (by far). 1 billion is better than 9 billion for the world and 150,000,000 is better than 300,000,000 for the US.
soonercruiser
6/5/2011, 12:48 PM
I know, I know....you are a true libertarian.
If those from south of the border did just that.....worked, returned home, no citizenship for them or their offspring, no benefits, I would be less opposed to such a program.
Immigration should be about bringing the brightest minds, skilled labor, etc...to this country rather than embracing an uneducated burden for posterity.
Besides, I want our country to shrink in size (as I do the world) rather than grow. The highest breeders in the country are the illegals (by far). 1 billion is better than 9 billion for the world and 150,000,000 is better than 300,000,000 for the US.
Good News???
More like bad news if the population really goes down; you ain't seen nothing yet on bankruptcy of federal social programs!
:rolleyes:
Good News???
More like bad news if the population really goes down; you ain't seen nothing yet on bankruptcy of federal social programs!
:rolleyes:
Ponzi schemes should bite the dust anyway.
The world's natural resources are much better equipped 1 billion rather than 9 or 20 billion.
AlboSooner
6/5/2011, 01:43 PM
The world's natural resources are much better equipped 1 billion rather than 9 or 20 billion.
I think there's plenty to go around even for 9 billion.
soonercruiser
6/5/2011, 01:55 PM
Ponzi schemes should bite the dust anyway.
The world's natural resources are much better equipped 1 billion rather than 9 or 20 billion.
I agree!
But, it ain't gonna happen!
And, my second point (made several times in the past)....we've been wasting too much time on this ball of rock!
:D
I think there's plenty to go around even for 9 billion.
Simple math would say that we would have 9 times as much to go around for a billion or, more importantly, last 9 times longer.
which 5 billion would you like to get rid of?
which 5 billion would you like to get rid of?
Don't have to get rid of anyone. Just have less births worldwide...like 1 per couple for the next 2-3 generations. Quit subsidizing large families by removing deductions for more than 1 child....maybe even punishing households that exceed 1. Education. Education. Education. Birth control, Birth control, Birth control.
you know that is probably less likely than converting them all to Christianity, right?
you know that is probably less likely than converting them all to Christianity, right?
Unlikely, now, yes. But 40 years ago who thought gay marriage would even be a topic for debate in this country?
olevetonahill
6/5/2011, 03:18 PM
Don't have to get rid of anyone. Just have less births worldwide...like 1 per couple for the next 2-3 generations. Quit subsidizing large families by removing deductions for more than 1 child....maybe even punishing households that exceed 1. Education. Education. Education. Birth control, Birth control, Birth control.
That MIGHT work here, But wont in the rest of the world.
That MIGHT work here, But wont in the rest of the world.
Well you would have to educate the illegals so that they won't think more is better.
It is working in Europe....better than the US. ABout 0 growth rate there. Virtually any growth they have there is....you guessed it...immigrants.
Chuck Bao
6/5/2011, 03:36 PM
Don't have to get rid of anyone. Just have less births worldwide...like 1 per couple for the next 2-3 generations. Quit subsidizing large families by removing deductions for more than 1 child....maybe even punishing households that exceed 1. Education. Education. Education. Birth control, Birth control, Birth control.
I like that a lot, okie52. Of course, neither pubs or dems will go for it.
Hell, I would vote for you if you could simplify the tax laws and eliminate all of the exclusions.
There was a British program I watched several days ago where this one couple had had their two children and didn't want anymore. They decided on a new procedure that effectively permanently plugs a woman's uterus. They said that it was a very simple procedure and the woman felt only slight discomfort. Painless. Simple. Easy. Quick. Cheap.
texaspokieokie
6/5/2011, 03:58 PM
Ponzi schemes should bite the dust anyway.
The world's natural resources are much better equipped 1 billion rather than 9 or 20 billion.
At some point, over-population becomes the biggest problem. i fear that the world & possibly the US have reached that point.
it has if they all live like Americans :D
texaspokieokie
6/5/2011, 04:02 PM
Chinese had been restricting number of children, but i think they gave up. no one has a bigger problem than China.
I like that a lot, okie52. Of course, neither pubs or dems will go for it.
Hell, I would vote for you if you could simplify the tax laws and eliminate all of the exclusions.
There was a British program I watched several days ago where this one couple had had their two children and didn't want anymore. They decided on a new procedure that effectively permanently plugs a woman's uterus. They said that it was a very simple procedure and the woman felt only slight discomfort. Painless. Simple. Easy. Quick. Cheap.
No, unfortunately, no mainstream politician is going to come out against large families. At least not now. But there will be a point in the future when people will recognize it is not so much about a carbon footprint but rather how many footprints there are.
I don't mind a deduction for 1 child but after that there should be negative tax consequences.
If it were possible to temporarily sterilize minors until they hit 18 (or older) I would support it....same for people while they are on welfare.
Curly Bill
6/5/2011, 04:11 PM
Yep, in our modern times I've never understood why peeps are rewarded with tax breaks for having more kids. If anything they should have to pay more taxes to support the little bastages! :D
Chinese had been restricting number of children, but i think they gave up. no one has a bigger problem than China.
Yep, they did restrict or try to restrict births for a while. But China at that time was almost totally agrarian with crude technology so they literallly needed the manpower per family to make it. They were killing girls at birth so as not exceed their limit until they had a boy. Now China is at 1.4 billion people or roughly 5 times the population of the US in a country that has about the same area as the US. I sure don't want the US to end up that way.
Problem is, China wants to be reimbursed for going green by the US and other developed countries but no one is challenging them on their overpopulation which is the much bigger crime.
Yep, in our modern times I've never understood why peeps are rewarded with tax breaks for having more kids. If anything they should have to pay more taxes to support the little bastages! :D
Some traditions/mindsets are hard to let go.
it has if they all live like Americans :D
Most people will live like "Americans" if they can afford to do so.
India-
1/3 the area of the US and 4 times the population. It will eventually pass China as the most populous country on earth.
Now there is something for the US to shoot for.
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