Dont take this the wrong way

[oudavid1]

But why is it you never heard about Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) before Nam. Was it taboo then? Or is it just because society has changed? I'm just trying to learn, and I always apperciate your guy's input.

[sooner59]

Probably more taboo. Maybe psychologists didn't realize it yet.

[GKeeper316]

it was called shell shock before it was studied as a psychological disorder

[SoonerBread]

I could be wrong, but...

PTSD is what the afflicted suffer from after the fact, as a chronic affect of the stresses of battle.

Shell Shock, or Combat Stress Reaction (CSR), is what happens during the heat of battle.

I'm sure someone with military background can prove or dispell my own little theories.

[Sooner_Tuf]

As a subject it is way too complex to address on a message board. But as a brief answer combat stress disorders have been noted and treated far longer than the US has been in existence.

[jk the sooner fan]

it was very prevalent after World War II (and i suspect WWI as well) - it was just a different time - they came home after a popular war and were treated like heroes.......the Vietnam Vets - not so much- so they have even more **** to deal with internally

one of the BEST WWII books i've ever read about the invasion of Normandy and the campaign to liberate France - by Anthony Beevor - "D-Day"- speaks about the number of troops that suffered breakdowns on the battle field - it was so overwhelming that it became a logistical nightmare - they had to create a hospital for them to all go to

[MsProudSooner2]

Read Unbroken: A World War II Story of Survival, Resilience, and Redemption by Laura Hillenbrand.

PTSD existed but it had no name. I think that the only people who knew the veterans suffered from it were their spouses or parents. Generally, the public was very supportive of the veterans. Perhaps this helped them recover somewhat. But many WWII veterans have spoken about nightmares and flashbacks that stayed with them the rest of their lives.

[Breadburner]

It was called battle fatigue......

[walkoffsooner]

Back in the old days even kids would have had Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. It was a hard life

[lexsooner]

Read Unbroken: A World War II Story of Survival, Resilience, and Redemption by Laura Hillenbrand.

PTSD existed but it had no name. I think that the only people who knew the veterans suffered from it were their spouses or parents. Generally, the public was very supportive of the veterans. Perhaps this helped them recover somewhat. But many WWII veterans have spoken about nightmares and flashbacks that stayed with them the rest of their lives.

That was one of the most amazing true life stories I have ever read about, before, during, and after the war. I thought of Zamperini when I saw this thread. He suffered immensely after the war from PTSD, undiagnosed then, because of the torture and terrible hardships he endured during the war.

[yermom]

as was brought up in other threads, the methods of war/deployments have changed as well. less down time would have to make things worse.

there is also the fact that medical technology has improved a lot. what would have killed someone or sent them home in the past might not now.

[StoopTroup]

Gen. George Patton believed he had a cure for it.

XZJcAeJ8YRo

[SoCaliSooner]

as was brought up in other threads, the methods of war/deployments have changed as well. less down time would have to make things worse.

there is also the fact that medical technology has improved a lot. what would have killed someone or sent them home in the past might not now.

When my grandfather was a tailgunner in WWII he'd rarely seen a plane and then flew 42 missions and saw guys in his crew get blown up and out of the plane, shot down several times, had to kill people up close behind enemy lines to keep from being captured all before he was even 19.

Kids now see people blown up on tv or do half the stuff my grandfather did in a few hours of Call of Duty, Halo or Grand Theft Auto, or just one episode of CSI and many are desensitized to violence well before their teens.

Different times....

[yermom]

i'm not saying it didn't happen before, but why it might happen more now

i guess i'm also adding to the point that it's more recognized now as opposed to countering it

[stoopified]

Combat fatigue is another term from yesteryear

[goingoneight]

I would guess the same reason that back in the day, Sam Bradford woulda been told to rub some dirt on it and get back in the game in Lubbock back in 2007.

[bonkuba]

Gen. George Patton believed he had a cure for it.

XZJcAeJ8YRo

The man was a genius.

If only he were alive today........

[swardboy]

The man was a genius.

If only he were alive today........

He'd be 120 years old, or, something....I got nuthin'.

Except I would love to hear his feelings about Obama Man!

[KantoSooner]

If the topic interests you deeply, try looking through the PDR and DSM (I think I got the two right) which are diagnostic references used to categorize medical conditions. They are periodically updated and the definitions change.
a mundane example is diabetes where what was once clearly a 'non-diabetic' reading on the A1C blood test is now within the range of 'diabetic'.
I do not know, but would suspect that Drs are now more sensitive to more subtle long-term effects of trauma and that the definition of PTSD is more inclusive than it might have been 25, 50 or more years ago. Just as in the case of concussion.

[lexsooner]

The man was a genius.

If only he were alive today........

Yes he was a brilliant commander, as well as a senseless brute with the young American heroes he slapped. The soldiers he slapped (two of them) were not cowards and were not suffering from shell shock or PTSD. If I recall, one had a high grade fever and was quite ill, and the other was dehydrated and suffering from physical fatigue after being in combat in the front. One of the two soldiers had been sent to the field hospital over his protests and wishes to stay with his unit. Someone should have told Patton it is possible to need medical attention even if you do not have visible wounds on your body. All he did was hit two brave young American heroes.

[soonerchk]

it was called shell shock before it was studied as a psychological disorder

This.

[olevetonahill]

The Hells Angles were originaly a group of WW2 vets who couldnt assimilate back into society

[proud gonzo]

They had it back then, but it didn't have the same name.

My grandfather was a paratrooper in the 101st Airborne during WWII--they were the first ones in on D-Day. He didn't talk about the war much, but he had night terrors. I remember once when I was maybe eight or nine, we were visiting on vacation. He woke up the whole house, screaming in his sleep, swearing in Polish.

My grandma usually had to sleep in a different room, because if he had a night terror and you tried to wake him up, or if he woke up and didn't know immediately where he was, he would think you were attacking him. He definitely had PTSD.

[fadada1]

as told by my old man - who had friends that "visited" the jungle - one of the things that was so devastating psychologically during vietnam, was the constant "on edge" needed during their time there. while out on ops, our guys could never see their enemy - had no idea where they hid, and the guerilla warfare the vc employed was maddening... literally. out of the jungle, the enemy was still present and could strike at any time. definitely a very scary way to fight a war - as if it wasn't scary enough.

[olevetonahill]

They had it back then, but it didn't have the same name.

My grandfather was a paratrooper in the 101st Airborne during WWII--they were the first ones in on D-Day. He didn't talk about the war much, but he had night terrors. I remember once when I was maybe eight or nine, we were visiting on vacation. He woke up the whole house, screaming in his sleep, swearing in Polish.

My grandma usually had to sleep in a different room, because if he had a night terror and you tried to wake him up, or if he woke up and didn't know immediately where he was, he would think you were attacking him. He definitely had PTSD.

Yup


as told by my old man - who had friends that "visited" the jungle - one of the things that was so devastating psychologically during vietnam, was the constant "on edge" needed during their time there. while out on ops, our guys could never see their enemy - had no idea where they hid, and the guerilla warfare the vc employed was maddening... literally. out of the jungle, the enemy was still present and could strike at any time. definitely a very scary way to fight a war - as if it wasn't scary enough.

Its really no different with our troops now. The enemy looks and talks and acts like the civilians.
While on patrol we had to be on the look out for Vc, NVA,Plus the local civilians that had their families held hostage .
War is HELL

Heres the deal ok? during the Civil war it had the name of " Irritable heart, Those who served in WW1 It was called "Shell Shock" in WW2 it was called " Battle Fatigue" or " War Neurosis"
AFTER Nam it was 1st called "Post- Viet Nam Syndrome" then they changed to its current term and called it PTSD. In the final analysis Our Troops are STILL being hung out to dry on their own:mad:

[olevetonahill]

Read this, If ya really want to know.


http://wings.buffalo.edu/epc/ezines/treehome/tree05/curr_cro.html

[2121Sooner]

The only reason it is called PTSD now is there is just a better understanding of the human mind

My dad was a door gunner for 6 months in Vietnam and like most folks he doesn't talk much about it. But he is one strong mother F'er and my hero who never complained or whined about how he felt. Most of that generation were that way, which is why they probably had a hard time diagnosing it.

I flip sh!t to Olevet but I wouldn't want to see some of the crap my dad and that generation had to deal with. Not sure I would want anyone to

[C&CDean]

The only reason it is called PTSD now is there is just a better understanding of the human mind

My dad was a door gunner for 6 months in Vietnam and like most folks he doesn't talk much about it. But he is one strong mother F'er and my hero who never complained or whined about how he felt. Most of that generation were that way, which is why they probably had a hard time diagnosing it.

I flip sh!t to Olevet but I wouldn't want to see some of the crap my dad and that generation had to deal with. Not sure I would want anyone to

Quite possibly your best post. EVAR.

[2121Sooner]

I am gonna go back to being an a$$ now if that is ok with you

[3rdgensooner]

My grandfather was a paratrooper in the 101st Airborne during WWII--they were the first ones in on D-Day. He didn't talk about the war much, but he had night terrors. I remember once when I was maybe eight or nine, we were visiting on vacation. He woke up the whole house, screaming in his sleep, swearing in Polish.

My grandma usually had to sleep in a different room, because if he had a night terror and you tried to wake him up, or if he woke up and didn't know immediately where he was, he would think you were attacking him. He definitely had PTSD.
One of my favorite relatives ever, my great uncle Charles, had night terrors after WWII. He was also among the troops who first came up on the concentration camps and the sights and sounds of that war never left him.