So what exactly [Archive] - SoonerFans.com Message Boards

OU_Sooners75

5/24/2011, 11:27 PM

What is wrong with Obamacare? Sorry I'm not a political analyst by any means. I just hate hearing this guy talk about him.

Think Romneycare first.

If you think the national debt is bad now, wait til Obamacare takes affect.

The more the federal government gets away from entitlement programs and socialistic programs the better.

Seriously, look up Romneycare and do a little research by using google if you are tired of hearing him slobber all over Obama. I bring up the Romneycare from Mass. because Obama modeled his plan after it with some slight changes.

There have been some things he has flat out failed at doing and some things that he shouldnt have done.

You can always start with the very first bill he signed into law as President about women....That was a joke of a bill and many women opposed it!

OU_Sooners75

5/24/2011, 11:27 PM

You might not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, but you seem to be coming along. It was most definitely Bush's fault.

3 budgets later it is still Bush's fault? really?

OU_Sooners75

5/24/2011, 11:31 PM

And Rez, don't forget that Obama has never turned in his budget by the due date...which is suppose to be sometime in October (i believe) the year before.

Yes, the dance and agreement they had about a month or so ago...that budget was suppose to be passed and signed last October.

Obama thinks he is king and can have his cake and eat it too. His budget purposals have been the highest of any president...even more so than W's. And every year his budget plan keeps getting bigger and bigger.

Then lets talk about appointing czars that do not have to get congressional approval.

Want more? Just google it...youll be amazed at how easy it is to find his screw ups and mistakes.

AlboSooner

5/24/2011, 11:31 PM

Sure, here are a few things. Firstly I hope we don't have the illusion that Obama has been faultless whilst in office.

He broke many campaign promises, which by default strikes him off the "faultless" list. He promised that his tenure would be transparent, yet his tenure has been secretive, closed, and absurdly thin-skinned. Only more person is more thin-skinned than Obama, and that is StoopTroup.

I will not get into the ineffective foreign policy and the ineffective bailout plan. I hear the banks we bailed out, need moar money now.

MR2-Sooner86

5/25/2011, 12:20 AM

He signed Obamacare which is so great he couldn't burden the American taxpayer so he exempted himself, his family, and members of Congress.

He had a 9/11 Truther, Van Jones, in his cabinet.

His "safe school czar" Kevin Jennings didn't report sexual activity between a 15 year old, underage, boy and a grown man.

He has pissed off our biggest ally, the United Kingdom, several times.

He made New Yorkers think they were under attack again by flying Air Force One around the Statue of Liberty, which was a publicity stunt gone bad.

He wants to "spread the wealth around" and is for raising taxes yet several in his cabinet, Tim Geithner, are tax cheats.

He supports bringing back the Assault Weapons Ban and he's very anti-second amendment.

He talks about working together but he invites Paul Ryan to talk about his plan, slams it, but offers up no ideas of his own.

After the gulf oil spill he hasn't renewed licenses causing us to import more oil.

He is friends with a known Marxist and terrorist, Bill Ayers.

I could go on and on but the big thing is he's an egotistical ***hole that thinks government is the greatest thing ever which is why he's trying to expand it. I know this because I'm an ***hole myself. ***holes can detect other ***holes and Obama is one in spades.

ouwasp

5/25/2011, 12:36 AM

He picked Florida & St. Tebow in the 2009 MNC game!

Actually, he seems like he'd be an enjoyable guy to watch a game with. But as a politician BHO is too liberal for my tastes. Wants to be too friendly with the mooslems, homosexuals, illegal immigrants, Red Chinese, etc.

And he spends TOO MUCH!

Of course, a poster with "wasp" in his screen name probably isn't an Obama fan... :D

But I don't care that he's black (kinda proud of him in a sense) and wish him good health and pray that he be granted wisdom...

StoopTroup

5/25/2011, 12:44 AM

OU_Sooners75

5/25/2011, 01:28 AM

He personally kicked everyone in this thread in the junk and they lost their ever loving minds about it and have decided to hang his *** the next time they see him and possibly tar and feather his entire Family.

Other than the same tired BS that so far has nothing to do with the mess we are in....everyone waits around waiting to add anything they can to the list of things that have absolutely nothing to do with him being an awful President and await the possibility that Congress can hang his *** for their decades of out of control spending that has never been mentioned like it is now until a black guy became POTUS. This week...everything he said about Israel and Palestine was blown out of portion and full of so much hate that to get rid of him....starting WWIII would be worth it.

Also he's not supposed to get credit for the decision to send in Navy Seals to kill Osama Bin Laden but it is his fault that he didn't personally take his limo into Pakistan with the Secret Service and retrieve the tail rotor section that he personally left behind.

Also....He might be a legal American but there is no way he can have a family tree because he's 1/2 Black.

I think I added some stuff there captain.

Not to mention he has ****ty foreign policy.

And this is coming from a guy that voted for him and helped at some rallies in central Kansas. So, at one point I believed the hype....why do you still believe it? After 3 years, he has not done anything but spend us into more debt, in which we are very close at defaulting on.

He wants to make government larger with more socialist views.

And he wants to have the trickle down effect instead of people earning it!

What makes this guy a bad president? There are a few reasons right there.

So I ask, what makes him a good president? He ordered the raid that killed Bin Laden...okay what else?

BTW...you do know who makes the Budget Purposal that the entire federal government runs on, right? Damn sure not the congress...they just approve it!

sooner59

5/25/2011, 01:32 AM

sooner59

5/25/2011, 01:34 AM

I think I added some stuff there captain.

Not to mention he has ****ty foreign policy.

And this is coming from a guy that voted for him and helped at some rallies in central Kansas. So, at one point I believed the hype....why do you still believe it? After 3 years, he has not done anything but spend us into more debt, in which we are very close at defaulting on.

He wants to make government larger with more socialist views.

And he wants to have the trickle down effect instead of people earning it!

What makes this guy a bad president? There are a few reasons right there.

So I ask, what makes him a good president? He ordered the raid that killed Bin Laden...okay what else?

BTW...you do know who makes the Budget Purposal that the entire federal government runs on, right? Damn sure not the congress...they just approve it!

"Hey, that was me!" -Ronald Reagan (republican God)

StoopTroup

5/25/2011, 01:35 AM

Not to mention he has ****ty foreign policy.

I know this is difficult to understand as many folks think we should wipe the Muslim Countries off the face of the Earth....which I don't believe the GWB Policy was....but it might have been Dick Cheney's if GWB would have been stupid enough to listen to DC.

Folks throw stuff out like this and don't really say what exactly makes them think it really is. Now if you are going to try and say it has to do with Israel and Pakistan Statement he made this week....I think we need to have a separate discussion about that part of his Foreign Policy. If it's something else he's done that has you concerned....I can work with you on it as long as it's more than "He just sucks".

OU_Sooners75

5/25/2011, 01:37 AM

"Hey, that was me!" -Ronald Reagan (republican God)

I think you and I both are way to young to really comment on whatever Reagan did or purposed as President.

However, I think Reagan did not try to expand government...and he damn sure didnt have a blank check at his disposal like Obama thinks he has. Bt then again. I am not totally sure, because he was first eleceted POTUS when I was a lil kid and had no understanding of what he ws doing.

BTW, I am not a republican.

StoopTroup

5/25/2011, 01:41 AM

Same ****, different POTUS. No matter who is prez, the other side will crucify them.

Bush:

Repub: We don't agree with some things he did, but he did a decent job.
Dems: Everything he did was the worst any POTUS has ever done.

Obama:

Repub: Everything he did was the worst any POTUS has ever done.
Dems: We don't agree with some things he did, but he has done a decent job.

And continue from now until the rapture in October.

End thread.

Yeah...I didn't think about that approach either. i was going with the "Let's discuss these things one at a time then. Who's approach in the last 30 years was better and would work right now as a way to rebuild or even start with Europe/Asia/ Indonesia/ Africa/ South America/ North America?

sooner59

5/25/2011, 01:43 AM

OU_Sooners75

5/25/2011, 02:03 AM

I know this is difficult to understand as many folks think we should wipe the Muslim Countries off the face of the Earth....which I don't believe the GWB Policy was....but it might have been Dick Cheney's if GWB would have been stupid enough to listen to DC.

Folks throw stuff out like this and don't really say what exactly makes them think it really is. Now if you are going to try and say it has to do with Israel and Pakistan Statement he made this week....I think we need to have a separate discussion about that part of his Foreign Policy. If it's something else he's done that has you concerned....I can work with you on it as long as it's more than "He just sucks".

What makes his foreign policy suck?

- The Afghanistan war is going in the wrong direction.
- Pro-Obama European governments have declined to send more troops to Afghanistan.
- Diplomatic outreach to Iran was slapped away. While concessions to Russia and China on the issue failed to bring meaningful sanctions.
- Obama's personal relationships with France, the UK, and Germany could not be any more tense than they are right now.
- Due to the failure of Obama's outreach to the Muslim world, more anti-American terrorist plots were launched in 2009 than any year since 2001.
- When a Pro-Hugo Chavez president tried to hold power illegally in Honduras, the Obama Administration backed the lawless president over a unanimous Hunduran Supreme Court ruling.
- Hezbollah is rearming in Lebanon and Obama does nothing.
- The US seems to have no trade policy or no plan to hold Iraq together after our troops leave.
- Then you have this past week as you mentioned.

Lets not stop there shall we?

He is a hands off president here on domestic issue:

- The bank rescue was designed and overseen by Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke.

- The big economic stimulus was written by Democrats in Congress for their own purposes, discarding signature Obama themes such as upgrades to the electrical grid.

- Healthcare plan? Again written in Congress, negotiated between House liberals and more conservative Democrats in the Senate. On the key issues in negotiation, including the famous public option, Obama took no position at all.

- Energy and environment: The big decisions on climate change legislation are being made in Henry Waxman’s committee in the House of Representatives, with only notional White House input.

More international affairs:

He decided to send 30,000 less troops to Afghanistan than his Generals requested, all the while announcing to the Taliban when we were going to withdrawl from there.

It was Obama that decided to do nothing about Iran cracking down on protesters, in hopes to entice Iran to the negotiating table.

It was Obama that cancelled the European Missle defense program in hope to get Russian support of UN Sanctions against Iran.

It was Obama that cold shouldered Israel.

What more can this guy suck at when it comes to being president?

OU_Sooners75

5/25/2011, 02:05 AM

I wrote a 10 page paper on Reaganomics for a forecasting and budgeting professor who worked in the White House when George H. Bush was in office. He was a Ph.D. and actually was an expert on the Reagan administration. I wrote quite a bit on Reagan's "trickle-down" economics, which he made famous as he was really big on the idea. I made an A on that paper. If Obama supported "trickle-down" economics, he followed Reagan's lead. That is a fact. Very googleable.

Good for you.

I don't see Reagan wanting socialist healthcare and other entitlement programs.

I dont see Reagan as wanting the rich to lose their money so that the lazy people can stay lazy and get free money. I dont see Reagan as a guy that shunned our allies while trying to appease those that hate us.

But, I could be naive too. ;)

Curly Bill

5/25/2011, 02:13 AM

He personally kicked everyone in this thread in the junk and they lost their ever loving minds about it and have decided to hang his *** the next time they see him and possibly tar and feather his entire Family.

Other than the same tired BS that so far has nothing to do with the mess we are in....everyone waits around waiting to add anything they can to the list of things that have absolutely nothing to do with him being an awful President and await the possibility that Congress can hang his *** for their decades of out of control spending that has never been mentioned like it is now until a black guy became POTUS. This week...everything he said about Israel and Palestine was blown out of portion and full of so much hate that to get rid of him....starting WWIII would be worth it.

Also he's not supposed to get credit for the decision to send in Navy Seals to kill Osama Bin Laden but it is his fault that he didn't personally take his limo into Pakistan with the Secret Service and retrieve the tail rotor section that he personally left behind.

Also....He might be a legal American but there is no way he can have a family tree because he's 1/2 Black.

Really now? Come on, you know better than that. There are many of us on here, including many of the Republican persusasion who have excoriated both the former POTUS and the congress for it's drunken sailor spending, and not just the former POTUS and congress, but POTUS's and congresses before that.

I get that you've become an Obama superfan, but quit making stuff up.

And damn dude: playing the race card? Wow!!

sooner59

5/25/2011, 02:14 AM

Good for you.

I don't see Reagan wanting socialist healthcare and other entitlement programs.

I dont see Reagan as wanting the rich to lose their money so that the lazy people can stay lazy and get free money. I dont see Reagan as a guy that shunned our allies while trying to appease those that hate us.

But, I could be naive too. ;)

I don't think you understood what I was saying exactly. Trickle-down economics is anti-socialist healthcare and entitlement. I am speaking strictly from an economics perspective. I did not say that Reagan did those things. Reagan absolutely did NOT want the rich to lose their money. In fact, Reagan was all about tax breaks for the rich and making sure the rich kept their money, regardless of the welfare of the poor.

OU_Sooners75

5/25/2011, 02:19 AM

I don't think you understood what I was saying exactly. Trickle-down economics is anti-socialist healthcare and entitlement. I am speaking strictly from an economics perspective. I did not say that Reagan did those things. Reagan absolutely did NOT want the rich to lose their money. In fact, Reagan was all about tax breaks for the rich and making sure the rich kept their money, regardless of the welfare of the poor.

My understanding of trickle down effect is to take from the rich and give it to the poor type of thing, like entitlements and socialist programs...so maybe my trickle down defition was/is a little off.

:texan:

sooner59

5/25/2011, 02:27 AM

My understanding of trickle down effect is to take from the rich and give it to the poor type of thing, like entitlements and socialist programs...so maybe my trickle down defition was/is a little off.

:texan:

Its actually providing tax breaks to big businesses in theory that it will eventually "trickle down" to help out the general population. Here is the Wiki that references Reagan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trickle-down_economics

StoopTroup

5/25/2011, 02:31 AM

I get that you've become an Obama superfan, but quit making stuff up.

And damn dude: playing the race card? Wow!!

First of all....i don't know how a white dude plays the race card....Oh yeah....he's 1/2 white....lol

2nd of all....you can be as big a **** stirrer as anyone Bill. Obama Superfan....LMAO.

I continue to beg for someone who can actually explain to me how the hell a GOP Candidate is going to deal with the debt Ceiling or Not deal with it when they aren't going to be in office come 8-2-2011.

I really am baffled that Republicans like Coburn have quit the gang of 6. Even though he's not my favorite Senator....I was starting to come around that he really was willing to help fix what is ailing America and push to cut spending but it's getting clear that he too isn't going to do anything unless he gets something out of it too. He probably does deserve something but just as Obama said we should get Israel to start negotiating somewhere....I'm hoping he'll do the same and our Country can get past the debt ceiling and concentrate on cutting spending. I don't believe Ron Paul has America's best interest at heart and he and others like Ryan are holding Obama and America Hostage due to their political careers possibly being ruined. I think they need to bite the bullet and trust their constituents to understand and put them back in Office so that they can get the White House back in 2016 and actually do something to continue to improve our financial and economic health as a Country. Yeah it's a huge debt but they just refuse to raise taxes even though it's evident they and the democrats have gotten to this point. Neither President had the balls to declare a draft so that we didn't have to buy private sector help to complete the cluster**** of Bush and Cheney's attempt to nation Build a Muslim Country.

If I'm making that up....and you know I'm not because nobody will believe it except for maybe folks who still think Obama wasn't born in Hawaii.

Blue

5/25/2011, 02:43 AM

First of all....i don't know how a white dude plays the race card....Oh yeah....he's 1/2 white....lol

2nd of all....you can be as big a **** stirrer as anyone Bill. Obama Superfan....LMAO.

I continue to beg for someone who can actually explain to me how the hell a GOP Candidate is going to deal with the debt Ceiling or Not deal with it when they aren't going to be in office come 8-2-2011.

I really am baffled that Republicans like Coburn have quit the gang of 6. Even though he's not my favorite Senator....I was starting to come around that he really was willing to help fix what is ailing America and push to cut spending but it's getting clear that he too isn't going to do anything unless he gets something out of it too. He probably does deserve something but just as Obama said we should get Israel to start negotiating somewhere....I'm hoping he'll do the same and our Country can get past the debt ceiling and concentrate on cutting spending. I don't believe Ron Paul has America's best interest at heart and he and others like Ryan are holding Obama and America Hostage due to their political careers possibly being ruined. I think they need to bite the bullet and trust their constituents to understand and put them back in Office so that they can get the White House back in 2016 and actually do something to continue to improve our financial and economic health as a Country. Yeah it's a huge debt but they just refuse to raise taxes even though it's evident they and the democrats have gotten to this point. Neither President had the balls to declare a draft so that we didn't have to buy private sector help to complete the cluster**** of Bush and Cheney's attempt to nation Build a Muslim Country.

If I'm making that up....and you know I'm not because nobody will believe it except for maybe folks who still think Obama wasn't born in Hawaii.

Debt ceiling? Who gives a F? Keep raising it. Kick the can down the road. We're going belly up one way or the other. The Debt ceiling argument is irrelevant.

Paul and Ryan don't have "Americas" best interests at heart? But the globalist UN asskisser Obama does?

Raise taxes? No thanks. Stop spending maybe? (Both parties).

As for the rest of that stream of consciousness...lol wut?

Curly Bill

5/25/2011, 02:45 AM

A white dude plays the race card when they become a white aplogist, or perhaps when they become so invested in someone of a minority race they play it to defend their chosen person, or to cast aspersions on "the enemy." I'll leave it to you to answer where you fit into that. :D

Any republican who pledges to raise taxes will not be elected. A donk can get away with that because most of their constituents don't pay taxes, but stand to gain from other people paying more. ;)

Same thing with a draft - not gonna happen. And I'm glad that Brack has made so much effort to end Bush and Cheney's war of world domination, or whatever evil motives the left assigns to them.

Bush sucked, the congress sucked and does suck, but Brack has taken it to a whole new level...but I'm sure he only sucks because of residual suckitude from Bush. ;)

StoopTroup

5/25/2011, 02:46 AM

Debt ceiling? Who gives a F? Keep raising it. Kick the can down the road. We're going belly up one way or the other. The Debt ceiling argument is irrelevant.

Paul and Ryan don't have "Americas" best interests at heart? But the globalist UN asskisser Obama does?

Raise taxes? No thanks. Stop spending maybe? (Both parties).

As for the rest of that stream of consciousness...lol wut?

I agree....raise it!

WTH are they waiting for?

That's what I'm saying. Congress needs to raise it. They aren't going to do it until the POTUS forces them though. Just wait. This is going to turn political. Finally....you possibly see what I'm saying. The 1st thing that has to happen is raise the debt ceiling before they can stop spending. We default on 8-2-2011. Why wait until then to raise the ceiling? Once they raise it they can begin to start negotiating the cuts.

Blue....

I still don't understand though....

Herman Cain is touting a Fair Tax. If he's got a great idea....why wait? Raise the debt ceiling. Employ the Fair tax which puts everyone equally responsible in helping to pay FAIR TAXES to pay off this huge national Debt. It's going to raise taxes on someone though.

Hell......if they do this....I might consider voting for him. Thing is....I don't believe even if we were to get to 2012 elections and he was elected.....that he would actually get the fair tax implemented. I think it's a ploy by Cain and i think that Cain is a ploy and the GOP has no real intention to make him their Candidate for 2012's run for the White House. It's a sham.

SoonerBread

5/25/2011, 02:53 AM

I really am baffled that Republicans like Coburn have quit the gang of 6. Even though he's not my favorite Senator....I was starting to come around that he really was willing to help fix what is ailing America and push to cut spending but it's getting clear that he too isn't going to do anything unless he gets something out of it too.

Link (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0511/55266.html)

Republicans? Or one, because it was made apperant to him that no progress would be made?

On Monday evening in Sen. Mark Warner’s office in the Russell Building, tensions finally boiled over between Majority Whip Dick Durbin and Oklahoma Republican Sen. Tom Coburn.

The spat over a deficit-reduction package had been building for weeks, and Coburn had grown frustrated that the Gang of Six wouldn’t get specific enough about where it would cut domestic spending — and he wanted some $130 billion more in cuts out of Medicare.

Believing that the demands were unreasonable, an irritated Durbin engaged in what one source said was a “loud and passionate” argument with the combative conservative Republican, prompting the Illinois Democrat to ultimately tell Coburn that they had reached an “impasse.” Coburn said he slept on it and called Durbin the next morning to tell him, “You’re right.”

Etc., Etc..........

Blue

5/25/2011, 03:13 AM

First of all....i don't know how a white dude plays the race card....Oh yeah....he's 1/2 white....lol

2nd of all....you can be as big a **** stirrer as anyone Bill. Obama Superfan....LMAO.

I continue to beg for someone who can actually explain to me how the hell a GOP Candidate is going to deal with the debt Ceiling or Not deal with it when they aren't going to be in office come 8-2-2011.

I really am baffled that Republicans like Coburn have quit the gang of 6. Even though he's not my favorite Senator....I was starting to come around that he really was willing to help fix what is ailing America and push to cut spending but it's getting clear that he too isn't going to do anything unless he gets something out of it too. He probably does deserve something but just as Obama said we should get Israel to start negotiating somewhere....I'm hoping he'll do the same and our Country can get past the debt ceiling and concentrate on cutting spending. I don't believe Ron Paul has America's best interest at heart and he and others like Ryan are holding Obama and America Hostage due to their political careers possibly being ruined. I think they need to bite the bullet and trust their constituents to understand and put them back in Office so that they can get the White House back in 2016 and actually do something to continue to improve our financial and economic health as a Country. Yeah it's a huge debt but they just refuse to raise taxes even though it's evident they and the democrats have gotten to this point. Neither President had the balls to declare a draft so that we didn't have to buy private sector help to complete the cluster**** of Bush and Cheney's attempt to nation Build a Muslim Country.

If I'm making that up....and you know I'm not because nobody will believe it except for maybe folks who still think Obama wasn't born in Hawaii.

The more I read this and your other posts, the more I have come to this conclusion.

You are a brilliant troll or you are seriously mentally ill.

I think it's the former bc I never remembered you being so completely bat**** crazy.

Blue

5/25/2011, 03:18 AM

I agree....raise it!

WTH are they waiting for?

That's what I'm saying. Congress needs to raise it. They aren't going to do it until the POTUS forces them though. Just wait. This is going to turn political. Finally....you possibly see what I'm saying. The 1st thing that has to happen is raise the debt ceiling before they can stop spending. We default on 8-2-2011. Why wait until then to raise the ceiling? Once they raise it they can begin to start negotiating the cuts.

Blue....

I still don't understand though....

Herman Cain is touting a Fair Tax. If he's got a great idea....why wait? Raise the debt ceiling. Employ the Fair tax which puts everyone equally responsible in helping to pay FAIR TAXES to pay off this huge national Debt. It's going to raise taxes on someone though.

Hell......if they do this....I might consider voting for him. Thing is....I don't believe even if we were to get to 2012 elections and he was elected.....that he would actually get the fair tax implemented. I think it's a ploy by Cain and i think that Cain is a ploy and the GOP has no real intention to make him their Candidate for 2012's run for the White House. It's a sham.

Well yeah. Some would say voting is a sham. Look what happened to H Clinton. She won nearly every state that actually voted in the dem primary, but King O won some bogus caucuses in N Dakota and Wyoming and got the nod. The choice is you have no choice.

Big money, big media, big dbags running the show. Thats what it's come down to and thats why America is fed up. It's time to get past the partisan bickering and realize we are all getting owned by Neo-LiberalCons (yeah I made that up :D).

tcrb

5/25/2011, 08:12 AM

Has Obama done wrong?

This guy I know (African American) likes to think this guy is amazing and has an answer for damn near every negative comment about Obama. Now could so of you please tell me exactly some of the things he has done wrong.

For starters, how about telling him to take a look at the price on the gas pump next time he fills up. The price of gas before BHO imposed his moratorium on drilling in the gulf was ~ $1.80.....now, ~ $3.80. And he committed to send American tax $ to Brazil to assist them in drilling for the same oil in the gulf and then promised to make the US their best customer.

Mississippi Sooner

5/25/2011, 08:20 AM

He has pissed off our biggest ally, the United Kingdom, several times.

Eh, I'm not sure I have a problem with this. I'm tired of wars with foreign looking, foreign talking people. We need a war with some English speaking folks. Canada would be the obvious first choice, but they'd only agree to fight in the NHL off-season. The NHL off-season, for those who don't know, is about three months out of the year. I say we stir it up with the limeys just for old times sake.

Position Limit

5/25/2011, 08:32 AM

What makes his foreign policy suck?

- The Afghanistan war is going in the wrong direction.
- Pro-Obama European governments have declined to send more troops to Afghanistan.
- Diplomatic outreach to Iran was slapped away. While concessions to Russia and China on the issue failed to bring meaningful sanctions.
- Obama's personal relationships with France, the UK, and Germany could not be any more tense than they are right now.
- Due to the failure of Obama's outreach to the Muslim world, more anti-American terrorist plots were launched in 2009 than any year since 2001.
- When a Pro-Hugo Chavez president tried to hold power illegally in Honduras, the Obama Administration backed the lawless president over a unanimous Hunduran Supreme Court ruling.
- Hezbollah is rearming in Lebanon and Obama does nothing.
- The US seems to have no trade policy or no plan to hold Iraq together after our troops leave.
- Then you have this past week as you mentioned.

Lets not stop there shall we?

He is a hands off president here on domestic issue:

- The bank rescue was designed and overseen by Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke.

- The big economic stimulus was written by Democrats in Congress for their own purposes, discarding signature Obama themes such as upgrades to the electrical grid.

- Healthcare plan? Again written in Congress, negotiated between House liberals and more conservative Democrats in the Senate. On the key issues in negotiation, including the famous public option, Obama took no position at all.

- Energy and environment: The big decisions on climate change legislation are being made in Henry Waxman’s committee in the House of Representatives, with only notional White House input.

More international affairs:

He decided to send 30,000 less troops to Afghanistan than his Generals requested, all the while announcing to the Taliban when we were going to withdrawl from there.

It was Obama that decided to do nothing about Iran cracking down on protesters, in hopes to entice Iran to the negotiating table.

It was Obama that cancelled the European Missle defense program in hope to get Russian support of UN Sanctions against Iran.

It was Obama that cold shouldered Israel.

What more can this guy suck at when it comes to being president?

your're reaching pal and you know it. if you dont know it, you're a dunce. i think either way, you need to research your talking points. beyond silly.

Position Limit

5/25/2011, 08:35 AM

pphilfran

5/25/2011, 08:55 AM

what have equities done since obama took office? what have treasuries done since obama took office?

When he took office a 30 year treasury yielded 2.97%
Today a 30 year yields 4.26%

So people that bought a treasury on 1/20/09 are losing money, and if they try to sell they will lose some of the principle they have invested...and where would the yield be if QE2 was not in place?

Position Limit

5/25/2011, 09:00 AM

When he took office a 30 year treasury yielded 2.97%
Today a 30 year yields 4.26%

So people that bought a treasury on 1/20/09 are losing money, and if they try to sell they will lose some of the principle they have invested...and where would the yield be if QE2 was not in place?

investing can be a kick in the nuts cant it? my question was aimed at the faux outrage toward the debt. i was under the impression that treasury markets had dried up. good thing i didnt call my boys at the CME.
so now that you got nowhere with your reply to the debt market, can to take a stab at equities too? prolly best you just not reply. you not gonna like what you see after you look at the 2.5 year chart on the s&p 500. cheers mate. life is good. enjoy.

Position Limit

5/25/2011, 09:03 AM

oh yeah, and thanks for the novice bond primer. i'll keep that in mind.

pphilfran

5/25/2011, 09:05 AM

investing can be a kick in the nuts cant it? my question was aimed at the faux outrage toward the debt. i was under the impression that treasury markets had dried up. good thing i didnt call my boys at the CME.
so now that you got nowhere with your reply to the debt market, can to take a stab at equities too? prolly best you just not reply. you not gonna like what you see after you look at the 2.5 year chart on the s&p 500. cheers mate. life is good. enjoy.

I do admit the market is higher than I expected...but that is my fault...after pouring trillions into the markets by either bailing out companies/sectors or by the use of QE1/2 I should have expected a better business climate...

We will know the results of his fiscal planning in a few more years...I have concerns about long term interest rates...

pphilfran

5/25/2011, 09:06 AM

oh yeah, and thanks for the novice bond primer. i'll keep that in mind.

No need to be a friggin jerk...

Position Limit

5/25/2011, 09:15 AM

No need to be a friggin jerk...

my fault. it was a little rude. it just gets tiresome listening to the same tripe with no dynamic thought to back it up. just the same talking points over and over. qe2 does indeed end in the next few months. it could get very interesting. although no real volatility buying to speak of yet. if it comes and goes smoothly, it's cruise control for obama's economy. if you want to call it that.

pphilfran

5/25/2011, 09:20 AM

my fault. it was a little rude. it just gets tiresome listening to the same tripe with no dynamic thought to back it up. just the same talking points over and over. qe2 does indeed end in the next few months. it could get very interesting. although no real volatility buying to speak of yet. if it comes and goes smoothly, it's cruise control for obama's economy. if you want to call it that.

It is hard to say what will happen when the buy back ends...

I am afraid there might not be enough worldwide capital to take up the slack...

I don't see Japan increasing their appetite for US bonds...they have to rebuild the country...

Europe...hell, they are struggling to keep from going under as it is...I don't see much European capital moving into US bonds...

China...who knows...we scratch each other back...they have made some waves in the past, just don't know if they got the nutz to pull the trigger and decrease buying...

It is going to be interesting...

pphilfran

5/25/2011, 09:29 AM

sappstuf

5/25/2011, 09:37 AM

For starters, how about telling him to take a look at the price on the gas pump next time he fills up. The price of gas before BHO imposed his moratorium on drilling in the gulf was ~ $1.80.....now, ~ $3.80. And he committed to send American tax $ to Brazil to assist them in drilling for the same oil in the gulf and then promised to make the US their best customer.

Obama was actually pretty clear that he wanted gas prices to go up. He just thought they went up too fast in 2008. He preferred a "gradual adjustment".

5M1WlV7vafk

It has taken him about two years to make his adjustment...

pphilfran

5/25/2011, 09:39 AM

We should have higher gas prices...I would be bumping the gas tax up gradually...

JohnnyMack

5/25/2011, 09:54 AM

Position Limit

5/25/2011, 10:37 AM

I don't know about the dynamic thoughts...but I don't usually post the some tiresome tripe...

Hell, I'm the guy that says raise income taxes if you want...cause it won't make a nats azz difference in the revenue stream....

Did you know that when Clinton raised income taxes that income tax revenue as a % of GDP actually went down? The years where he "balanced" the budget was due to a large increase in cap gains revenue...raising taxes won't do chit...getting rid of loopholes will make a difference...

yeah but loopholes are where the theoretical edge to make billions exist. get rid of that then were left with hard work and brains!!!! there's pleantly out there that can be done, but nobody want to do it and only the the uber wealthy can avoid it. the rest is just conversation.

lexsooner

5/25/2011, 10:43 AM

Has Obama done wrong?

This guy I know (African American) likes to think this guy is amazing and has an answer for damn near every negative comment about Obama. Now could so of you please tell me exactly some of the things he has done wrong.

The worst thing he has not done is letting Wall Street get away with nearly destroying the world's economy through its fraudulent and illegal practices. Nobody involved with that mess has been prosecuted, and these slime balls are back to business as usual after our money bailed them out. I am not sure the regulation of their practices is much better than before. Perhaps Obama could justify not initially having the U.S. Attorney's Office go after them because of the extremely fragile state of the economy, but thing are more normal now but no action has been taken. Now it's all politics.

sappstuf

5/25/2011, 10:44 AM

We should have higher gas prices...I would be bumping the gas tax up gradually...

You will never get voted into office running on that.. :)

pphilfran

5/25/2011, 10:45 AM

You will never get voted into office running on that.. :)

Good thing I ain't running...

Position Limit

5/25/2011, 10:46 AM

Here are the things Obama has done that I think are wrong:

-Campaigning to bring change to Washington and immediately filling his cabinet with Goldman-Sachs goons. Then telling us he'd work at reforming Wall Street and implementing almost nothing with any teeth.

-Using his super-majority as an excuse to ram home a healthcare bill instead of focusing on creating jobs.

-Failed to push Congress on the closing of Gitmo after he signed an order almost immediately after his inaguration. Ultimately it was Congress who ****-blocked the closure, but BHO didn't put up much of a fight.

Ultimately I feel Obama should be judged on how he dealt with the economy and job creation and I personally don't feel that right now he's earned a second term.

-yes banks wrote the reform. didnt suprise me one bit. would they have it any other way?

-the other problem with raming a healthcare bill through was that it didnt address the problem of rising costs.

-employment isnt coming back for awhile. not until the next bubble is created. can really put it on obama. we're just a bubble economy and have been for 30 years. once goldman finds something to finance with qe money other than risk, we'll be there.

The Profit

5/25/2011, 10:49 AM

I am wondering if republicans now wish they wouldn't have threatened Medicare with a voucher system. The issue has already cost them one election, and promises to cost them more. Perhaps it will cost them the white house and congress. Even Paul Ryan, the architect of the gop plan, could be in danger of losing his seat.

JohnnyMack

5/25/2011, 10:54 AM

-employment isnt coming back for awhile. not until the next bubble is created. can really put it on obama. we're just a bubble economy and have been for 30 years. once goldman finds something to finance with qe money other than risk, we'll be there.

I don't blame the collapse and recession on him, I just felt like at the onset of his presidency he was solely focused on health care because he knew he had a supermajority in Congress and could get it done. If I was campaigning against him I would pound over and over the point that he was focused on Obamacare and not focused on jobs. Pictures of Pelosi and Reid that fade into shots of empty factories and boarded up houses that fade into shots of graphs showing unemployment numbers would make for effective campaign ads.

The Profit

5/25/2011, 10:58 AM

Interesting movie on HBO about the collapse. I think its called "too big to fail." It makes the banks (especially large investment banks) look bad. At the end, after the banks were given huge low interest loans), Bernake says to Paulson, "they will use to money to make loans, won't they." Of course, the greedy banks did not, which is one of the reasons why the economy didn't recover more quickly.

Position Limit

5/25/2011, 11:04 AM

OU_Sooners75

5/25/2011, 12:42 PM

your're reaching pal and you know it. if you dont know it, you're a dunce. i think either way, you need to research your talking points. beyond silly.

Okay Einstein, tell me and show me where anything I said was wrong and a reach.

I'll be waiting.

:pop:

virginiasooner

5/25/2011, 01:01 PM

Has Obama done wrong?

First, he's a black man, which should automatically disqualifty him to be the most powerful person in the world. Second, he's restoring the positive reputation of the United States as an honest broker for peace. Third, he's a black man, which should automatically disqualify him to be the most powerful person in the world. Forth, he killed Osama bin Laden, making George W. Bush look like an idiot. Fifth, he's a black man, which should automatically disqualify him to be the most powerful person in the world. Sixth, he saved the American auto industry, making blue collar workers happy from coast to coast. Seventh, he's a black man, which should automatically disqualify him to be the most powerful person in the world.

In other words, Obama isn't perfect. He's done things I've not been pleased with, just as he's done things that have made me do a happy dance. And teabaggers need to face facts that he's an American Citizen, and is smarter than you or me.

OU_Sooners75

5/25/2011, 01:19 PM

First, he's a black man, which should automatically disqualifty him to be the most powerful person in the world. Second, he's restoring the positive reputation of the United States as an honest broker for peace. Third, he's a black man, which should automatically disqualify him to be the most powerful person in the world. Forth, he killed Osama bin Laden, making George W. Bush look like an idiot. Fifth, he's a black man, which should automatically disqualify him to be the most powerful person in the world. Sixth, he saved the American auto industry, making blue collar workers happy from coast to coast. Seventh, he's a black man, which should automatically disqualify him to be the most powerful person in the world.

In other words, Obama isn't perfect. He's done things I've not been pleased with, just as he's done things that have made me do a happy dance. And teabaggers need to face facts that he's an American Citizen, and is smarter than you or me.

How did he save the American Auto industry? If memory serves correctly, that bailout came before he was sworn into office, because I was all up in arms saying Bush is a socialist for wanting to buy the American Auto industry.

Position Limit

5/25/2011, 01:20 PM

Okay Einstein, tell me and show me where anything I said was wrong and a reach.

I'll be waiting.

:pop:

What makes his foreign policy suck?

- The Afghanistan war is going in the wrong direction.

wars in afghanistan never go in the right direction. but you seem new to this so i wouldnt expect you to know that. but he did manage to do something your boy wonder failed at. kill the evil bin laden. reaching...

- Pro-Obama European governments have declined to send more troops to Afghanistan.

oh no!!! he's failed miserably. can you blame them? reaching...

- Diplomatic outreach to Iran was slapped away. While concessions to Russia and China on the issue failed to bring meaningful sanctions.

i bet you would just love a jingoistic approch to this, but it wont work. so once again your really reaching here.

- Obama's personal relationships with France, the UK, and Germany could not be any more tense than they are right now.

obama could do a tour of any of those countries and still maintain his rock star status. anything, and i mean anything, is better than the status of the last guy in office. speaking of foreign policy.... once again you are embarassingly wrong here.

- Due to the failure of Obama's outreach to the Muslim world, more anti-American terrorist plots were launched in 2009 than any year since 2001.

but nothing worse than what happend on your boy bush's watch. remember that thing on sept. 11? how many major terrorist attacks have occured domestically since obama took office? dude, now you're giving a reach around. your're definitely new to this. who is feeding you this garbage. i really want to know.

- When a Pro-Hugo Chavez president tried to hold power illegally in Honduras, the Obama Administration backed the lawless president over a unanimous Hunduran Supreme Court ruling.

i got nothing here except obama is a socialist lovin commie pinko blah blah blah blah... im sure this honduras thing will be a huge topic come election season.

- Hezbollah is rearming in Lebanon and Obama does nothing.

jingoism. we need more of it. we also need more involvement in that region. more reaching. you starting to get idea?

- The US seems to have no trade policy or no plan to hold Iraq together after our troops leave.

trade policy for what? sand? oh yeah oil. get the f*ck outta here with your nonsense.

if you want more you can read some of my above posts about debt and equities. enjoy.

TitoMorelli

5/25/2011, 01:24 PM

First, he's a black man, which should automatically disqualifty him to be the most powerful person in the world. Second, he's restoring the positive reputation of the United States as an honest broker for peace. Third, he's a black man, which should automatically disqualify him to be the most powerful person in the world. Forth, he killed Osama bin Laden, making George W. Bush look like an idiot. Fifth, he's a black man, which should automatically disqualify him to be the most powerful person in the world. Sixth, he saved the American auto industry, making blue collar workers happy from coast to coast. Seventh, he's a black man, which should automatically disqualify him to be the most powerful person in the world.

In other words, Obama isn't perfect. He's done things I've not been pleased with, just as he's done things that have made me do a happy dance. And teabaggers need to face facts that he's an American Citizen, and is smarter than you or me.

This post should automatically disqualify you from being taken seriously on such topics.

Position Limit

5/25/2011, 01:25 PM

This post should automatically disqualify you from being taken seriously on such topics.

why? cause he took it to a level you might understand?

virginiasooner

5/25/2011, 01:30 PM

why? cause he took it to a level you might understand?

"He?" I'm not a "he."

OU_Sooners75

5/25/2011, 01:30 PM

What makes his foreign policy suck?

- The Afghanistan war is going in the wrong direction.

wars in afghanistan never go in the right direction. but you seem new to this so i wouldnt expect you to know that. but he did manage to do something your boy wonder failed at. kill the evil bin laden. reaching...

- Pro-Obama European governments have declined to send more troops to Afghanistan.

oh no!!! he's failed miserably. can you blame them? reaching...

- Diplomatic outreach to Iran was slapped away. While concessions to Russia and China on the issue failed to bring meaningful sanctions.

i bet you would just love a jingoistic approch to this, but it wont work. so once again your really reaching here.

- Obama's personal relationships with France, the UK, and Germany could not be any more tense than they are right now.

obama could do a tour of any of those countries and still maintain his rock star status. anything, and i mean anything, is better than the status of the last guy in office. speaking of foreign policy.... once again you are embarassingly wrong here.

- Due to the failure of Obama's outreach to the Muslim world, more anti-American terrorist plots were launched in 2009 than any year since 2001.

but nothing worse than what happend on your boy bush's watch. remember that thing on sept. 11? how many major terrorist attacks have occured domestically since obama took office? dude, now you're giving a reach around. your're definitely new to this. who is feeding you this garbage. i really want to know.

- When a Pro-Hugo Chavez president tried to hold power illegally in Honduras, the Obama Administration backed the lawless president over a unanimous Hunduran Supreme Court ruling.

i got nothing here except obama is a socialist lovin commie pinko blah blah blah blah... im sure this honduras thing will be a huge topic come election season.

- Hezbollah is rearming in Lebanon and Obama does nothing.

jingoism. we need more of it. we also need more involvement in that region. more reaching. you starting to get idea?

- The US seems to have no trade policy or no plan to hold Iraq together after our troops leave.

trade policy for what? sand? oh yeah oil. get the f*ck outta here with your nonsense.

if you want more you can read some of my above posts about debt and equities. enjoy.

Lets set one record straight here son, I am not a republican, I am in fact a registered Democrat....I just dont go licking Obama's ******* like all other Democrats do because I can actually think for myself.

Now then, Mr. Genius...if you learn to read the entire post I made, I made a reference as to why the war in Afghanistan is not going right. Read much?

Maybe if Obama had good personal relationships with the UK, France, and Germany, they would be willing to send in more troops. Pro-Obama does not mean they like him personally, just more of his stances than they did Bush's.

Iran: Yeah, giving concessions that fail to reach desired result is a reach...by Obama. Why give concessions when both Russia and China would never follow America on the Iran issue. Failure by Obama of the highest degree.

Uk, France, and Germany: Rockstar status of the public individuals, not the governments. So see answer above.

Muslim outreach: Again, Bush is not my boy. The guy was a clueless, arogant *******. At least he was not as clueless as our current President when it came to Foreign policy. He (Bush) may be a dunce but he got countries in the Middle East to follow us, unlike Obama seems to be able to do.

virginiasooner

5/25/2011, 01:32 PM

3rdgensooner

5/25/2011, 01:33 PM

.I just dont go licking Obama's *******like all other Democrats do because I can actually think for myself.I know a lot of Democrats who do not lick Obama's [whatever your multiple asterisks replace].

StoopTroup

5/25/2011, 01:35 PM

Is a Registered Democrat like a AKC Cocker Spaniel?

TitoMorelli

5/25/2011, 01:35 PM

- When a Pro-Hugo Chavez president tried to hold power illegally in Honduras, the Obama Administration backed the lawless president over a unanimous Hunduran Supreme Court ruling.

i got nothing here except obama is a socialist lovin commie pinko blah blah blah blah... im sure this honduras thing will be a huge topic come election season.

IN other words whether we act in our own or another country's best interest should depend on whether people will remember it come election season?

(not that that's not how it works already)

C&CDean

5/25/2011, 01:35 PM

This post should automatically disqualify you from being taken seriously on such topics.

Agreed.

It would have a lot more merit without the stupid "black man" bull****. Just sayin'.

TitoMorelli

5/25/2011, 01:37 PM

why? cause he took it to a level you might understand?

No, because he/she/it kept it at the only level at which such supporters can continue to make excuses for some of the crap that this administration has pulled. Bet that went sailing over your head.

OU_Sooners75

5/25/2011, 01:37 PM

What makes his foreign policy suck?

- The Afghanistan war is going in the wrong direction.

wars in afghanistan never go in the right direction. but you seem new to this so i wouldnt expect you to know that. but he did manage to do something your boy wonder failed at. kill the evil bin laden. reaching...

- Pro-Obama European governments have declined to send more troops to Afghanistan.

oh no!!! he's failed miserably. can you blame them? reaching...

- Diplomatic outreach to Iran was slapped away. While concessions to Russia and China on the issue failed to bring meaningful sanctions.

i bet you would just love a jingoistic approch to this, but it wont work. so once again your really reaching here.

- Obama's personal relationships with France, the UK, and Germany could not be any more tense than they are right now.

obama could do a tour of any of those countries and still maintain his rock star status. anything, and i mean anything, is better than the status of the last guy in office. speaking of foreign policy.... once again you are embarassingly wrong here.

- Due to the failure of Obama's outreach to the Muslim world, more anti-American terrorist plots were launched in 2009 than any year since 2001.

but nothing worse than what happend on your boy bush's watch. remember that thing on sept. 11? how many major terrorist attacks have occured domestically since obama took office? dude, now you're giving a reach around. your're definitely new to this. who is feeding you this garbage. i really want to know.

- When a Pro-Hugo Chavez president tried to hold power illegally in Honduras, the Obama Administration backed the lawless president over a unanimous Hunduran Supreme Court ruling.

i got nothing here except obama is a socialist lovin commie pinko blah blah blah blah... im sure this honduras thing will be a huge topic come election season.

- Hezbollah is rearming in Lebanon and Obama does nothing.

jingoism. we need more of it. we also need more involvement in that region. more reaching. you starting to get idea?

- The US seems to have no trade policy or no plan to hold Iraq together after our troops leave.

trade policy for what? sand? oh yeah oil. get the f*ck outta here with your nonsense.

if you want more you can read some of my above posts about debt and equities. enjoy.

Honduras: I highly doubt the issue will be made big. But you cannot dispute the fact that he was backing an illegal (by their own highest court) President of a country, that also backed Chavez. And in case you don't know, Chavez hates American Government, but loves our money! Sound very similar to Bill Ayres (sp?).

Lebanon: I tend to agree, let them sort it out themselves. But when it comes to public veiw and our backing of Israel, Hezbollah rearming to kill more innocent people in Israel, we should help do something. Doesn't have to be troops or bombs.

Iraq: Obviously you can't read very well. We have no trade policy or no plan in place to keep that country from going into civil war after we leave. And yes, their biggest commodity is Oil...Oil is afterall the United State's biggest import...so why not have a trade plan to lower the cost and higher production? No, that is a bad idea, right? Get over yourself tool!

OU_Sooners75

5/25/2011, 01:38 PM

why? cause he took it to a level you might understand?

You just a dick, or do you like to pretend to be one?

Are you compensating for something?

StoopTroup

5/25/2011, 01:39 PM

I've done things Obama isn't exactly pleased with me about.

virginiasooner

5/25/2011, 01:42 PM

Agreed.

It would have a lot more merit without the stupid "black man" bull****. Just sayin'.

Let me explain something to you: there are some people in this country (and probably members of this community) who will deny this President any sort of achievement, because of his race. So, even though Obama saved the American auto industry and snuffed bin Laden, he's not good enough to be President of the United States, for the SOLE REASON that he's black. I've actually had conversations with people who hold this view. And because of my personal relationship to these people, I can't call them a bunch of racist troglodytes.

OU_Sooners75

5/25/2011, 01:44 PM

Is a Registered Democrat like a AKC Cocker Spaniel?

Is a troll like a smart guy? :D

OU_Sooners75

5/25/2011, 01:48 PM

virginiasooner

5/25/2011, 01:49 PM

Well, in this thread, you are the only one hating on Obama because he is a Negro.

You don't understand sarcasm, do you?

OU_Sooners75

5/25/2011, 01:50 PM

You don't understand sarcasm, do you?

Neither do you, do you?

:pop:

Position Limit

5/25/2011, 01:51 PM

[QUOTE=OU_Sooners75;3242009]Lets set one record straight here son, I am not a republican, I am in fact a registered Democrat....I just dont go licking Obama's ******* like all other Democrats do because I can actually think for myself.

Now then, Mr. Genius...if you learn to read the entire post I made, I made a reference as to why the war in Afghanistan is not going right. Read much?

QUOTE]

i can only read so much horsesh*t before i tune you out. your self aggrandizing comment of thinking for yourself is further proof of your horsesh*t. i'd bet you could'nt find an original thought with 2 hands and a flashlight.

TitoMorelli

5/25/2011, 01:54 PM

Let me explain something to you: there are some people in this country (and probably members of this community) who will deny this President any sort of achievement, because of his race. So, even though Obama saved the American auto industry and snuffed bin Laden, he's not good enough to be President of the United States, for the SOLE REASON that he's black. I've actually had conversations with people who hold this view. And because of my personal relationship to these people, I can't call them a bunch of racist troglodytes.

Understood. But that doesn't mean that anyone who dislikes our president or disagrees with his actions/policies is a racist for doing so, or that racism is the only reason that anyone could possibly dislike or disagree with him.

People on this board and in public discourse have made many valid observations as to why they are dissatisfied with the current administration, yet the left's increasingly common rebuttal is to accuse its opposition of being racist, with little or no attention to the actual argument made. Despite your unfortunate experiences with those around you, those with whom you're interacting here aren't necessarily cut from the same cloth.

virginiasooner

5/25/2011, 01:55 PM

Honduras: I highly doubt the issue will be made big. But you cannot dispute the fact that he was backing an illegal (by their own highest court) President of a country, that also backed Chavez. And in case you don't know, Chavez hates American Government, but loves our money! Sound very similar to Bill Ayres (sp?).

Lebanon: I tend to agree, let them sort it out themselves. But when it comes to public veiw and our backing of Israel, Hezbollah rearming to kill more innocent people in Israel, we should help do something. Doesn't have to be troops or bombs.

Iraq: Obviously you can't read very well. We have no trade policy or no plan in place to keep that country from going into civil war after we leave. And yes, their biggest commodity is Oil...Oil is afterall the United State's biggest import...so why not have a trade plan to lower the cost and higher production? No, that is a bad idea, right? Get over yourself tool!

Honduras -- who cares? And why bring Bill Ayres into this?

Lebanon -- perhaps if Dubya didn't take his eyes off the ball in Afghanistan, things on the Israel-Lebanon border would be different. But we'll never know.

Iraq -- never should have gone in. Trillions of dollars wasted, 4400+ dead Americans soldiers, countless more injured, and no WMDs. Should have thought about the aftereffects before invading in the first place.

OU_Sooners75

5/25/2011, 01:56 PM

i can only read so much horsesh*t before i tune you out. your self aggrandizing comment of thinking for yourself is further proof of your horsesh*t. i'd bet you could'nt find an original thought with 2 hands and a flashlight.

You're right, I couldnt...at least in the attempt to try, I wouldnt accidently stick my tongue up Obama's bunghole.

How does his *** taste anyway?

The man has less accomplishments than failures so far in office. The guy was far from being ready to be President. His entire campaign was lie and one of the greatest misleadings of all-time.

Now that he is in office, the guy would rather play basketball and golf, or go on vacation every 3 weeks than to do his job.

And as far you go...You seem to try hard at being a pompous little dickmunch...Don't stop, it works well and is fun to deal with.

Position Limit

5/25/2011, 01:58 PM

Honduras -- who cares? And why bring Bill Ayres into this?

Lebanon -- perhaps if Dubya didn't take his eyes off the ball in Afghanistan, things on the Israel-Lebanon border would be different. But we'll never know.

Iraq -- never should have gone in. Trillions of dollars wasted, 4400+ dead Americans soldiers, countless more injured, and no WMDs. Should have thought about the aftereffects before invading in the first place.

stop it. you're not allowed to bring bush into this. that's not fair. obama should have a very easy fix for these massive fu*k ups. but he doesnt because he's a socialist.

OU_Sooners75

5/25/2011, 01:59 PM

Honduras -- who cares? And why bring Bill Ayres into this?

If you would follow the discussion, then maybe you would understand where it is relevant.

Lebanon -- perhaps if Dubya didn't take his eyes off the ball in Afghanistan, things on the Israel-Lebanon border would be different. But we'll never know.

Perhaps you are correct. But Obama not doing anything doesn't make it better nor corrects the issue.

Iraq -- never should have gone in. Trillions of dollars wasted, 4400+ dead Americans soldiers, countless more injured, and no WMDs. Should have thought about the aftereffects before invading in the first place.

I agree, we never should have went into Iraq. Like I said before I am no Bush Supporter, and I damn sure wasn't when he was in office.

Position Limit

5/25/2011, 02:01 PM

[quote=Position Limit;3242062]

You're right, I couldnt...at least in the attempt to try, I wouldnt accidently stick my tongue up Obama's bunghole.

How does his *** taste anyway?

The man has less accomplishments than failures so far in office. The guy was far from being ready to be President. His entire campaign was lie and one of the greatest misleadings of all-time.

Now that he is in office, the guy would rather play basketball and golf, or go on vacation every 3 weeks than to do his job.

And as far you go...You seem to try hard at being a pompous little dickmunch...Don't stop, it works well and is fun to deal with.

guy, i'm pissing in your mouth and you think it's fun to deal with. now that's original.

OU_Sooners75

5/25/2011, 02:01 PM

stop it. you're not allowed to bring bush into this. that's not fair. obama should have a very easy fix for these massive fu*k ups. but he doesnt because he's a socialist.

Honduras, that had nothing to do with Bush...soooo...

Hezbollah, Bush was not in office when they decided it was best to rearm to attack Israel. But I do think Bush did take his eyes of that minor problem.

So now what son?

OU_Sooners75

5/25/2011, 02:02 PM

guy, i'm pissing in my pants.

:gary:

The Profit

5/25/2011, 02:08 PM

Honduras, that had nothing to do with Bush...soooo...

Hezbollah, Bush was not in office when they decided it was best to rearm to attack Israel. But I do think Bush did take his eyes of that minor problem.

So now what son?

Are you for real? The war between Hezbollah (i.e. Iran) and Israel took place in Lebanon in 2006. George W. Bush was president, as he had been for the previous 6 years. You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to create your own facts.

OU_Sooners75

5/25/2011, 02:21 PM

Are you for real? The war between Hezbollah (i.e. Iran) and Israel took place in Lebanon in 2006. George W. Bush was president, as he had been for the previous 6 years. You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to create your own facts.

Read much?
From July 2009 through 2010, there were reports that Hezbollah was rearming themselves. Hell, some of the reports blame Israel for the rearmament.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/report-hezbollah-rearming-for-imminent-conflict-with-israel-1.4575

http://undhimmi.com/2010/07/04/hebollah-re-arming-in-lebanon-un-finds-way-to-blame-israel/

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/16/world/middleeast/16mideast.html

Yeah, that war you want to bring up was when Bush was in office. This rearming I am bringing up has been happening with Obama in office.

So instead of telling people they should not create their own facts, maybe you should actually learn the facts?

The Profit

5/25/2011, 02:28 PM

Read much?
From July 2009 through 2010, there were reports that Hezbollah was rearming themselves. Hell, some of the reports blame Israel for the rearmament.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/report-hezbollah-rearming-for-imminent-conflict-with-israel-1.4575

http://undhimmi.com/2010/07/04/hebollah-re-arming-in-lebanon-un-finds-way-to-blame-israel/

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/16/world/middleeast/16mideast.html

Yeah, that war you want to bring up was when Bush was in office. This rearming I am bringing up has been happening with Obama in office.

So instead of telling people they should not create their own facts, maybe you should actually learn the facts?

According to one of your own articles, US authorities (Obama administration) brought this matter up to the UN. This goes against your notion that our President has not done anything related to either Hezbollah or Israel. Personally,I think both Hamas and Hezbollah are Israel's problems. They (Israel) should learn to fight their own battles. They should need no more help from us.

MR2-Sooner86

5/25/2011, 02:41 PM

Sixth, he saved the American auto industry, making blue collar workers happy from coast to coast.

Yeah...you really don't know what you're talking about. Obama didn't save anything. What he did is he saved a company that made very, very, very, very poor decisions and instead of learning from their mistakes, he bailed them out.

How poor of decisions did GM make? Where do I begin?
- the made the exact same car under different company names (Camaro/Firebird, Sky/Solstice, Chevy truck/GMC truck, etc.)
- they had too many companies over-saturating the market (Chevy, GMC, Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac, Saturn, GEO, Oldsmobile, Hummer, Saab) with similar cars and dealerships
- they made a multi-billion dollar mistake to buy part of Fiat
- they did no R&D on the small car market in the 90's and invested heavily in their SUV and truck lines
- their small car firm, Saturn, received little in help in terms of money or resources when Toyota and Honda were afraid it could really push them out of the American market
- they had a small electric car, EV1 out in the 90's that you could only lease and despite it being very successful they pulled it
- the UAW healthcare and pension plans, they also did not help in making crappy cars and was a reason for so many recalls
- they royally screwed up the merger they tried with Nissan
- they ignored Jerry York

So what do we do with a company that ran itself into the ground? We give them taxpayer money, tell them "don't do that," and let them try to do it all over again. While the companies that made the hard choices, Ford, get no help. Correct me if I'm wrong but that's not capitalism.

What Obama did was give the people who came in 2nd and 3rd in the 100 meter dash steroids to try to "even" the playing field.

What would've happened had Obama done nothing? GM and Dodge would've A. shut down, B. massively downsize, or B. been bought out. We would still have Chevrolete but it might be owned by Honda, Toyota, or possibly Ford. Either that or it could've broken off into it's own, smaller, company.

In case you didn't know, Ford didn't receive a bailout. As for the jobs, Toyota, Honda, and Nissan have factories here in the United States.

Think before you speak. It makes the world so much better.

The Profit

5/25/2011, 02:51 PM

Yeah...you really don't know what you're talking about. Obama didn't save anything. What he did is he saved a company that made very, very, very, very poor decisions and instead of learning from their mistakes, he bailed them out.

How poor of decisions did GM make? Where do I begin?
- the made the exact same car under different company names (Camaro/Firebird, Sky/Solstice, Chevy truck/GMC truck, etc.)
- they had too many companies over-saturating the market (Chevy, GMC, Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac, Saturn, GEO, Oldsmobile, Hummer, Saab) with similar cars and dealerships
- they made a multi-billion dollar mistake to buy part of Fiat
- they did no R&D on the small car market in the 90's and invested heavily in their SUV and truck lines
- their small car firm, Saturn, received little in help in terms of money or resources when Toyota and Honda were afraid it could really push them out of the American market
- they had a small electric car, EV1 out in the 90's that you could only lease and despite it being very successful they pulled it
- the UAW healthcare and pension plans, they also did not help in making crappy cars and was a reason for so many recalls
- they royally screwed up the merger they tried with Nissan
- they ignored Jerry York

So what do we do with a company that ran itself into the ground? We give them taxpayer money, tell them "don't do that," and let them try to do it all over again. While the companies that made the hard choices, Ford, get no help. Correct me if I'm wrong but that's not capitalism.

What Obama did was give the people who came in 2nd and 3rd in the 100 meter dash steroids to try to "even" the playing field.

What would've happened had Obama done nothing? GM and Dodge would've A. shut down, B. massively downsize, or B. been bought out. We would still have Chevrolete but it might be owned by Honda, Toyota, or possibly Ford. Either that or it could've broken off into it's own, smaller, company.

In case you didn't know, Ford didn't receive a bailout. As for the jobs, Toyota, Honda, and Nissan have factories here in the United States.

Think before you speak. It makes the world so much better.

Good post, but you really didn't tell the entire story. All 3 of the big American automakers were offered low interest loans and other assistance. Two of them (GM and Chrysler) accepted, while Ford did not. It was not so different than when, under the Bush administration, all of the major US banks were offered huge low interest loans.

You are spot on with your assessment of some of GM's problems. For instance, GM would have had a huge head start with electric cars had it not been influenced by the dirty stinking corrupt oil industry to abandon the project.

What might be a surprise to many is the fact that both GM and Chrysler have joined Ford as success stories. They are paying back their loans. The government's ownership will be sold in stock purchases, and we taxpayers will actually benefit. It was a clear example of how government can help business.

tcrb

5/25/2011, 03:00 PM

Obama was actually pretty clear that he wanted gas prices to go up. He just thought they went up too fast in 2008. He preferred a "gradual adjustment".

5M1WlV7vafk

It has taken him about two years to make his adjustment...

So should I assume that you feel that since he wanted gas prices to go up that you think it was a good thing? That his only mistake was that it did not occur gradually as he intended? I really hope that I'm mis-interpreting your point.

virginiasooner

5/25/2011, 03:02 PM

. . .
- the UAW healthcare and pension plans, they also did not help in making crappy cars and was a reason for so many recalls

. . .

What would've happened had Obama done nothing? GM and Dodge would've A. shut down, B. massively downsize, or B. been bought out. We would still have Chevrolete but it might be owned by Honda, Toyota, or possibly Ford. Either that or it could've broken off into it's own, smaller, company.

In case you didn't know, Ford didn't receive a bailout. As for the jobs, Toyota, Honda, and Nissan have factories here in the United States.

Think before you speak. It makes the world so much better.

Let me address a few points:

The reason the car companies couldn't compete was the cost of health care for their employees (something else Obama fixed). Korea, Japan, Germany, Sweden, and the rest of the countries that we import cars from have UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE. Their cars are cheaper. Even the auto companies admit that health care costs were killing them.

Chevrolet is owned by General Motors.

I don't care what anyone says, it is not the fault of the guys on the line that the car companies screwed up. Those workers just did what they were told. How is it not the fault of the chairman of the board, the board of directors, the company president, the marketing people, the financial people, the design people, and the engineers, but the people who put the car together, who have NO SAY in any aspect of how things are run, it is all their fault that the company goes into the crapper. I think all parties can have a nice slice of this pie.

I have waxed rhapsodic on this board on my Ford Fusion Hybrid. And one reason we bought it was it was the best American made hybrid, according to Consumer Reports. But we were unhappy to learn that the car was actually assembled in Mexico. And yes, we know that Ford didn't take a bailout, BECAUSE IT DIDN'T NEED ONE.

And GM did massively downsize. And I would not want an iconic American car brand owned by a foreign company.

pphilfran

5/25/2011, 03:03 PM

How did he save the American Auto industry? If memory serves correctly, that bailout came before he was sworn into office, because I was all up in arms saying Bush is a socialist for wanting to buy the American Auto industry.

The auto bailout happened in 2009...

Even with the bailout both GM and Chrysler filed bankruptcy...Chrysler is now foreign owned...

In mid to late 2008 just about everyone knew both companies were on the ropes...instead of filing bk at that time they elected to hold on as long as possible and hope for fed help...both Bush and Obama were willing to hand them money...during those 6 months both companies burned through all available cash causing the crappy bk filing for bondholders...

pphilfran

5/25/2011, 03:06 PM

Let me address a few points:

The reason the car companies couldn't compete was the cost of health care for their employees (something else Obama fixed). Korea, Japan, Germany, Sweden, and the rest of the countries that we import cars from have UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE. Their cars are cheaper. Even the auto companies admit that health care costs were killing them.

Chevrolet is owned by General Motors.

I don't care what anyone says, it is not the fault of the guys on the line that the car companies screwed up. Those workers just did what they were told. How is it not the fault of the chairman of the board, the board of directors, the company president, the marketing people, the financial people, the design people, and the engineers, but the people who put the car together, who have NO SAY in any aspect of how things are run, it is all their fault that the company goes into the crapper. I think all parties can have a nice slice of this pie.

I have waxed rhapsodic on this board on my Ford Fusion Hybrid. And one reason we bought it was it was the best American made hybrid, according to Consumer Reports. But we were unhappy to learn that the car was actually assembled in Mexico. And yes, we know that Ford didn't take a bailout, BECAUSE IT DIDN'T NEED ONE.

And GM did massively downsize. And I would not want an iconic American car brand owned by a foreign company.

It was not necessarily healthcare costs that drove both companies under...benefits for retirees was more of a problem....their business model was based on growth and more workers...once growth stopped due to import competition the ability to fund those liabilities was nearly impossible...

MR2-Sooner86

5/25/2011, 03:19 PM

Good post, but you really didn't tell the entire story. All 3 of the big American automakers were offered low interest loans and other assistance. Two of them (GM and Chrysler) accepted, while Ford did not. It was not so different than when, under the Bush administration, all of the major US banks were offered huge low interest loans.

The Bush administrations bailout, I was against that too.

Businesses are just like people. If you make a good move and make money, that's awesome. If you make a poor decisions and lose money, hope you learned your lesson.

You are spot on with your assessment of some of GM's problems. For instance, GM would have had a huge head start with electric cars had it not been influenced by the dirty stinking corrupt oil industry to abandon the project.

I wouldn't say it was that. Many like to think so but their board and CEO were just idiots. It was the 90's and gas was cheap so, to them, an electric car was a 'niche' car. They wanted to keep making the trucks and SUVs thinking that's where the future of their company was. They were dead wrong.

Yes if they would've kept on that road they would've been so far ahead of Toyota and everybody else. That's what happens when you have a company that doesn't think five years out.

What might be a surprise to many is the fact that both GM and Chrysler have joined Ford as success stories. They are paying back their loans. The government's ownership will be sold in stock purchases, and we taxpayers will actually benefit. It was a clear example of how government can help business.

I don't know about helping. If GM disappeared tomorrow there's only one car I'd truly miss, the Corvette, and I'm sure one of the automakers would gladly buy that up. If not, there are other alternatives out there.

The Profit

5/25/2011, 03:26 PM

The Bush administrations bailout, I was against that too.

Businesses are just like people. If you make a good move and make money, that's awesome. If you make a poor decisions and lose money, hope you learned your lesson.

I wouldn't say it was that. Many like to think so but their board and CEO were just idiots. It was the 90's and gas was cheap so, to them, an electric car was a 'niche' car. They wanted to keep making the trucks and SUVs thinking that's where the future of their company was. They were dead wrong.

Yes if they would've kept on that road they would've been so far ahead of Toyota and everybody else. That's what happens when you have a company that doesn't think five years out.

I don't know about helping. If GM disappeared tomorrow there's only one car I'd truly miss, the Corvette, and I'm sure one of the automakers would gladly buy that up. If not, there are other alternatives out there.

As much as I detest banks, without the Bush administration led bailout, we would still be in the 2nd Great Depression. The economy was going to fail.

pphilfran

5/25/2011, 03:30 PM

GM got all the info they needed from the EV1 project and then did the right thing and pulled the plug...

The car was at least a decade ahead of its time..it cost em upwards of 100k to produce each vehicle and they leased it like it cost 40k....

The public was not going to pay that type price for the vehicle...hell, 10 years later with much better motor and battery tech they still can't make an electric that is really viable without subsidies...

pphilfran

5/25/2011, 03:32 PM

As much as I detest banks, without the Bush administration led bailout, we would still be in the 2nd Great Depression. The economy was going to fail.

Yep...but they just gave em the money with few strings attached...

MR2-Sooner86

5/25/2011, 03:33 PM

Let me address a few points:

You can try.

The reason the car companies couldn't compete was the cost of health care for their employees (something else Obama fixed). Korea, Japan, Germany, Sweden, and the rest of the countries that we import cars from have UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE. Their cars are cheaper. Even the auto companies admit that health care costs were killing them.

If you really think it was healthcare cost that killed GM, other than their poor business model, you're taking something illegal.

As for Obamacare, I'm glad he fixed it. I like seeing cost go up and quality go down.

How come Ford was able to do it? How come Honda, Toyota, and Nissan do it with their factories over here that are not unionized? Could it possible be it was those union pensions and expensive healthcare cost that did it? I mean Toyota, Honda, and Nissan don't have unions in their factories here yet they're doing fine. Not only that, they make a better car.

Chevrolet is owned by General Motors.

No sh*t!?

I don't care what anyone says, it is not the fault of the guys on the line that the car companies screwed up. Those workers just did what they were told. How is it not the fault of the chairman of the board, the board of directors, the company president, the marketing people, the financial people, the design people, and the engineers, but the people who put the car together, who have NO SAY in any aspect of how things are run, it is all their fault that the company goes into the crapper. I think all parties can have a nice slice of this pie.

Except allot of those workers were part of the UAW, which shares part of the blame for killing the American automobile industry the past 40 years. Maybe if they would've made a better car their public image wouldn't be bad and people would've paid for more of their cars.

Again, Toyota and others are making cars over here with American workers, without unions, facing the same healthcare cost, yet their cars are cheaper and better made.

That's not healthcare, that's the company, it's unions, and it's business practices.

I have waxed rhapsodic on this board on my Ford Fusion Hybrid. And one reason we bought it was it was the best American made hybrid, according to Consumer Reports. But we were unhappy to learn that the car was actually assembled in Mexico. And yes, we know that Ford didn't take a bailout, BECAUSE IT DIDN'T NEED ONE.

GM didn't need one either. GM could've done like Ford and massively downsized before it was too late but they didn't.

As I showed, GM made very, very poor decisions. As I said, their biggest stockholder brought in Jerry York to tell them they had to change yet they wouldn't listen and they threw away the chance to merge with Nissan. They had plenty of chances to help themselves and didn't.

As for the workers, the UAW didn't help things much either.

And GM did massively downsize. And I would not want an iconic American car brand owned by a foreign company.

Kind of like Fiat buying Chrysler?

pphilfran

5/25/2011, 03:36 PM

You can try.

If you really think it was healthcare cost that killed GM, other than their poor business model, you're taking something illegal.

As for Obamacare, I'm glad he fixed it. I like seeing cost go up and quality go down.

How come Ford was able to do it? How come Honda, Toyota, and Nissan do it with their factories over here that are not unionized? Could it possible be it was those union pensions and expensive healthcare cost that did it? I mean Toyota, Honda, and Nissan don't have unions in their factories here yet they're doing fine. Not only that, they make a better car.

No sh*t!?

Except allot of those workers were part of the UAW, which shares part of the blame for killing the American automobile industry the past 40 years. Maybe if they would've made a better car their public image wouldn't be bad and people would've paid for more of their cars.

Again, Toyota and others are making cars over here with American workers, without unions, facing the same healthcare cost, yet their cars are cheaper and better made.

That's not healthcare, that's the company, it's unions, and it's business practices.

GM didn't need one either. GM could've done like Ford and massively downsized before it was too late but they didn't.

As I showed, GM made very, very poor decisions. As I said, their biggest stockholder brought in Jerry York to tell them they had to change yet they wouldn't listen and they threw away the chance to merge with Nissan. They had plenty of chances to help themselves and didn't.

As for the workers, the UAW didn't help things much either.

Kind of like Fiat buying Chrysler?

Yep...Ford saw the handwriting on the wall and sold off assets...hell, they actually mortgaged the Ford logo so they boost the available credit lines...

AlboSooner

5/25/2011, 06:43 PM

Here are the things Obama has done that I think are wrong:

-Campaigning to bring change to Washington and immediately filling his cabinet with Goldman-Sachs goons. Then telling us he'd work at reforming Wall Street and implementing almost nothing with any teeth.

-Using his super-majority as an excuse to ram home a healthcare bill instead of focusing on creating jobs.

-Failed to push Congress on the closing of Gitmo after he signed an order almost immediately after his inaguration. Ultimately it was Congress who ****-blocked the closure, but BHO didn't put up much of a fight.

Ultimately I feel Obama should be judged on how he dealt with the economy and job creation and I personally don't feel that right now he's earned a second term.

Agree 100%. I'd add that he will be reelected because the GOP will run some turd against him. 2008 Obama in a blow out win against 2012 Obama.