AFL-CIO Costa Mesa-gate [Archive] - SoonerFans.com Message Boards

soonercruiser

5/19/2011, 11:15 AM

Will we hear this story from the Lame Stream Media????

Why did the afl-cio admit to intercepting emails at democrat convention?
Lefties were against the government using warrentless wiretapping to fight terrorism, are you now outraged at unions stealing personal data just to further their agenda. by the way, this is a FELONY.

VIDEO: AFL-CIO Leader Admits To ‘Intercepting’ Emails In Dispute With Costa Mesa City Council Berardino”GATE”
by Ari David
A recurring theme at the California Democrat Convention in Sacramento two weeks ago was the idea that the full weight of the state’s organized labor apparatus must come together to battle “Union Busting Wisconsin” tactics in the small Orange County City of Costa Mesa. You see, the Costa Mesa City Council has put labor on notice it intends to outsource city functions in an effort to dig out of their $221 million CalPERS pension deficit and avoid insolvency due to historic bloated pensions & benefits. Bloomberg News has even called Costa Mesa “Ground Zero on Costs of Pensions.”
To see the video tapes....
http://biggovernment.com/adavid/2011/05/17/video-afl-cio-leader-admits-to-intercepting-emails-in-dispute-with-costa-mesa-city-council-berardinogate/

http://gulagbound.com/16465/video-afl-cio-leader-admits-to-‘intercepting’-emails-in-dispute-with-costa-mesa-city-council-berardino”gate”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/t/video-aflcio-leader-admit_70856334693769216.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watergate_scandal

delhalew

5/19/2011, 11:25 AM

Everybody knows there are few on this earth more crooked than a union boss.

I do have a friend that will probably find a way to defend the union, even in this case. I'm going to hope I am wrong.

Midtowner

5/19/2011, 03:43 PM

Unions are out to protect their members benefits?

Isn't that kind of their job?

Caboose

5/19/2011, 03:52 PM

Unions are out to protect their members benefits?

Isn't that kind of their job?

It is their job to commit felonies if it protects their members' benefits?

Midtowner

5/19/2011, 03:56 PM

It is their job to commit felonies if it protects their members' benefits?

It depends how these emails were intercepted as to whether it's a felony. If these are public employees, most likely, their emails can be 'intercepted' with a request for public records, 'cuz in most cases, that's exactly what they are.

KantoSooner

5/19/2011, 04:24 PM

Midtowner

5/19/2011, 04:28 PM

The Profit

5/19/2011, 04:38 PM

It depends how these emails were intercepted as to whether it's a felony. If these are public employees, most likely, their emails can be 'intercepted' with a request for public records, 'cuz in most cases, that's exactly what they are.

You always add sanity to a thread. Thank you.

KantoSooner

5/19/2011, 04:40 PM

Hitler was bad.

Falling into live volcanoes hurts.

Having no money reduces your options in life.

<citation omitted>

Midtowner

5/19/2011, 04:41 PM

Hitler was bad.

Falling into live volcanoes hurts.

Having no money reduces your options in life.

<citation omitted>

Add to the list:

Union jobs are one of the last ways for blue collar workers to earn a middle class living in the United States.

Union jobs are one of the last jobs blue collar workers can receive decent benefits and retirement options.

KantoSooner

5/19/2011, 05:01 PM

Midtowner

5/19/2011, 05:07 PM

And to THAT list: union jobs are one of the last ways for blue collar Americans to remain locked in the same job for their entire career. Unions care about as much for their members as do the 'Human Resources' departments of your typical company.

Some say locked, others would say loyal to. Folks stay in union jobs because they're usually really good jobs.

Sooner_Tuf

5/19/2011, 06:47 PM

Add to the list:

Union jobs are one of the last ways for blue collar workers to earn a middle class living in the United States.

Union jobs are one of the last jobs blue collar workers can receive decent benefits and retirement options.

You don't get out of the house much do you? You live in a state that has a whole bunch of nonunion blue collar jobs that pay pretty damn well. Geez

soonercruiser

5/19/2011, 08:44 PM

[citation omitted]

None required for an opinion based on experience.

soonercruiser

5/19/2011, 08:47 PM

Add to the list:

Union jobs are one of the last ways for blue collar workers to earn a middle class living in the United States.

Union jobs are one of the last jobs blue collar workers can receive decent benefits and retirement options.

Really dumb post!
The blue collar guys with get up an go start their own businesses.
(thousands every day)
They do not waste their lifetime workin' for the man.
Lemmings follow the LW over the cliff.

pphilfran

5/19/2011, 09:16 PM

Really dumb post!
The blue collar guys with get up an go start their own businesses.
(thousands every day)
They do not waste their lifetime workin' for the man.
Lemmings follow the LW over the cliff.

Come on Cruiser...there are a lot of people that bust their azz working for the man...some don't want the risk or uncertainty of their own business...

Tiptonsooner

5/19/2011, 09:32 PM

Come on Cruiser...there are a lot of people that bust their azz working for the man...some don't want the risk or uncertainty of their own business...

Therein lies the risk and reward......

picasso

5/19/2011, 09:40 PM

Pension pimps.

Midtowner

5/20/2011, 07:51 AM

You don't get out of the house much do you? You live in a state that has a whole bunch of nonunion blue collar jobs that pay pretty damn well. Geez

Sounds like pension envy.

soonercruiser

5/20/2011, 11:08 AM

Come on Cruiser...there are a lot of people that bust their azz working for the man...some don't want the risk or uncertainty of their own business...

Then....they should accept their fate and SU!

Tulsa_Fireman

5/20/2011, 11:11 AM

UNIONS GOT MY DOG PREGNANT

KantoSooner

5/20/2011, 11:14 AM

How dastardly!

REDREX

5/20/2011, 11:29 AM

Why is Union membership in the Private sector at such a low level ?---Could it be that they make companies uncompetitive?

soonercoop1

5/20/2011, 07:06 PM

Unions were either taken over by or surrendered themselves to the mafia in the 1940's.

There are no straight unions or union bosses left and haven't been for three generations.

The only reason they still exist is that they donate so much money to the democratic party that there will never be a consensus to eliminate them and lock the bosses up.

They're up front criminal organizations.

Exactly but liberal/progressives will never allow anything to hurt the unions as that is the main way their ideology is funded and enforced....without the unions liberal progressivism is dead...

bluedogok

5/20/2011, 08:30 PM

Come on Cruiser...there are a lot of people that bust their azz working for the man...some don't want the risk or uncertainty of their own business...
If it isn't "The Man" screwin' ya it's Uncle Sam....the only constant is either way you are screwed.

Midtowner

5/22/2011, 04:13 PM

Why is Union membership in the Private sector at such a low level ?---Could it be that they make companies uncompetitive?

Could it be that businesses have been waging a constant war against workers' ability to obtain reasonable compensation, a fair pension package and benefits?

We're part of this huge race to the bottom, where businesses expect us to pay for their tax breaks and receive lower wages to boot. And there are plenty of folks out there who are inexplicably willing to help them. Karl Marx used to refer to those sorts as "useful idiots" (meant in the historical sense of the term, google it and and you'll be amused)... well not RedRex, but non-useful idiots :)

diverdog

5/22/2011, 04:29 PM

Really dumb post!
The blue collar guys with get up an go start their own businesses.
(thousands every day)
They do not waste their lifetime workin' for the man.
Lemmings follow the LW over the cliff.

Coming from a life time government employee that is almost laughable!

REDREX

5/22/2011, 04:38 PM

Could it be that businesses have been waging a constant war against workers' ability to obtain reasonable compensation, a fair pension package and benefits?

We're part of this huge race to the bottom, where businesses expect us to pay for their tax breaks and receive lower wages to boot. And there are plenty of folks out there who are inexplicably willing to help them. Karl Marx used to refer to those sorts as "useful idiots" (meant in the historical sense of the term, google it and and you'll be amused)... well not RedRex, but non-useful idiots :)---If you ever have to employ Union Labor you will understand the meaning of the word WASTE -------- P.S. ---I can't think of the last time I had a tax break

StoopTroup

5/22/2011, 05:01 PM

What's funny is that these pensions and funds that had huge amounts of money in them were mis-used as some folks couldn't stand the fact that people would one day actually grow old and expect them to pay them the money. Now that they have a shortfall....it's a damn crisis?

They have known for years that they weren't going to pay out any of the money.

Wouldn't it be cool to be able to promise folks that if they worked really hard for you for say 20-30 years....they would receive $1200-3600 per month once they retired? Then when they actually are at the age they should begin to receive the benefits....anyone who would support them in receiving the dough they were promised are suddenly scum bags.

Talk about Schadenfreude at it's finest.

The real scum bags are the ones that misused or knowingly promised things they knew they wouldn't have to deliver on.

Remember Enron?

I rest my case. Is it any wonder nobody trusts these CEOs or politicians who suddenly have a Budget crisis?

SoCaliSooner

5/22/2011, 05:22 PM

Wouldn't it be cool to be able to promise folks that if they worked really hard for you for say 20-30 years....they would receive $1200-3600 per month once they retired? Then when they actually are at the age they should begin to receive the benefits....anyone who would support them in receiving the dough they were promised are suddenly scum bags.

Talk about Schadenfreude at it's finest.

The real scum bags are the ones that misused or knowingly promised things they knew they wouldn't have to deliver on.

Remember Enron?

I know firefighters and lifeguards getting $12,000-$18,000 per month once retired. If everybody was getting that...states would be Enrons.

Or are states already becoming Enron because of overgenerous union promises made to garner votes?

Midtowner

5/22/2011, 05:25 PM

---If you ever have to employ Union Labor you will understand the meaning of the word WASTE -------- P.S. ---I can't think of the last time I had a tax break

If you run a business, it's probably a small one. Small businesses don't have lobbyists for the most part, so they don't get the benefit of government largess.

But if you don't remember the last time you personally received a tax break, then quite simply, you have a pretty short memory. The state legislature has passed several breaks this session, and of course, Obama extended the Bush tax cuts.

And as a small businessman, if that's what you are, I'm sure you never write off personal expenses as business expenses or anything like that.

StoopTroup

5/22/2011, 05:34 PM

I know firefighters and lifeguards getting $12,000-$18,000 per month once retired. If everybody was getting that...states would be Enrons.

Or are states already becoming Enron because of overgenerous union promises made to garner votes?

Well see....that's where you are wrong....

If everybody hadn't offered up that money to begin with as a way to negotiate an end to labor problems....maybe they wouldn't have been paying out that crap.

Honestly....I will never see numbers like that and it very difficult to sit here and take abuse about it from folks who freak out about some really huge mistakes others made years ago. Everyone learns from their mistakes in business. It's not paying for your mistakes and trying to reap benefits from both sides that keeps people confused and not trusting each other. Bad Management and giving in to demands like that when they never had intentions of paying it is why they got themselves in that mess.

Now you want to blame people who were never a part of it.

It makes you look like a pretty ugly person to some of us. I've been lied to and I hate liars. You I guess are going to spend the rest of your life defending them....and getting nothing in return for your efforts?

StoopTroup

5/22/2011, 05:44 PM

Therein lies the risk and reward......

Plus some folks are hell bent on selective hatred....

I mean...what does this mean?

Then this guy goes on some conspiracy rant...?

When asked about the “intercepted” emails comment made on video, Costa Mesa City Councilman Jim Righeimer said, “Someone gave me a copy of the video and I immediately gave it to the Orange County District Attorney’s office for investigation. People have a right to privacy that we need to ensure is not being violated here.”

SoCaliSooner

5/22/2011, 05:56 PM

If everybody hadn't offered up that money to begin with as a way to negotiate an end to labor problems....maybe they wouldn't have been paying out that crap.

Honestly....I will never see numbers like that and it very difficult to sit here and take abuse about it from folks who freak out about some really huge mistakes others made years ago.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/21/california-prison-guards-_n_852075.html

Correctional officers are now allowed to bank unlimited vacation time, some guards are cashing out over $100K when they retire. Governor Jerry Brown, elected with the CCPOA union backing, just lifted the cap. Most officers are making well over $100K with overtime and my father is going to retire with a sizable income and pension.

There's over 30,000 correctional officers, 2,000 parole agents and nearly another 700 investigators.

Wall Street Journal just listed a correctional officer in California is a better choice and makes more money...than a Harvard grad.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704132204576285471510530398.html

How do you think that has happened that so many union employees make so much money? Now the "mistakes made years ago" are coming to fruition, and as states, counties and cities struggle with the cost of pensions, fixing them in the way of scaling them back and making employees pay in for their own health care makes the libs and dems scurry to the unions and promise not to let any reform happen.

StoopTroup

5/22/2011, 06:05 PM

SoCaliSooner

5/22/2011, 06:11 PM

Maybe You guys should elect Arnold's Housekeeper to take care of things.

I mean....why is any of this suddenly the Union's Fault. I'm not sure but it seems to me that California has had trouble for decades.

Now suddenly it's a freaking conspiracy.....lol

I'm pretty sure Area 51 is probably to blame it you aren't able to convict someone....lol

It's not "suddenly" their fault, it's always been their fault and those that cater to them.

California has been in trouble for decades, and the far left policies that people have rightly mocked California for are now in national power (Pelosi, Feinstein) yet you libs on one hand want to talk about how screwed up California is, then pontificate on how your ideas, the same ones that screwed California for decades, are the ways to make America great.

That's funny.

GKeeper316

5/22/2011, 06:38 PM

Really dumb post!
The blue collar guys with get up an go start their own businesses.
(thousands every day)
They do not waste their lifetime workin' for the man.
Lemmings follow the LW over the cliff.

and herein lies the logical fallacy that is the american dream.

StoopTroup

5/22/2011, 06:41 PM

I wouldn't even think about moving out there. The problems they have and the price of real estate alone are so off the mark that it just doesn't merit taking a decent job there.

The percentage of unions in this Country are down so low that what's really laughable is the outrage that some people have about them. Again....the outrage is that they now have to pay and can't get out of it. The folks coming into Union's aren't getting these types of promises. They are all being sold out by the folks of the past that are retiring and expecting to receive what was promised. Again....you think it's outrageous to pay and try to get out of it with weak stories of emails.

Pay up bitches and learn from the past. I know you wish you could reverse the thuggery....but that's not the solution either. Now if you were getting a finder's fee for every dollar saved....I guess I'd be outraged too....

Hell....move out of that place. Save yourself. life is to short...

SoCaliSooner

5/22/2011, 06:50 PM

Pay up bitches and learn from the past. I know you wish you could reverse the thuggery....but that's not the solution either. Now if you were getting a finder's fee for every dollar saved....I guess I'd be outraged too....

Hell....move out of that place. Save yourself. life is to short...

It's about stopping the thuggery from continuing and starting in other areas. Do you think I could pay towards my own retirement or healthcare? I think I could and should, I think teachers should, cops and anybody in a union should, just like those who aren't in unions have to pay their health care costs.

I like the high cost of housing and real estate, there are some places the bottom feeders can't contaminate because they are priced out. That's a nice thing....also...I like the beach and surfing..and the mountains, and snow and the sierras and wine country, good private education, and lake fishing in clear water and ocean fishing...all within a few hours from me.

You can't find many places with all those things I enjoy...and the worse the state gets, and more people leave, the less crowded for my enjoyment.

StoopTroup

5/22/2011, 07:01 PM

It's about stopping the thuggery from continuing and starting in other areas. Do you think I could pay towards my own retirement or healthcare? I think I could and should, I think teachers should, cops and anybody in a union should, just like those who aren't in unions have to pay their health care costs.

I like the high cost of housing and real estate, there are some places the bottom feeders can't contaminate because they are priced out. That's a nice thing....also...I like the beach and surfing..and the mountains, and snow and the sierras and wine country, good private education, and lake fishing in clear water and ocean fishing...all within a few hours from me.

You can't find many places with all those things I enjoy...and the worse the state gets, and more people leave, the less crowded for my enjoyment.

You are just replacing thuggery with thuggery. The Working guy didn't do anything wrong....if the Unions did....go after them. And of course that's not going to happen because all the money that was supposed to be paid was stolen already and to cover it up....you start with the idea that the current workers are to blame....

It's ashamed that there is so many like you wanting to see this happen that have no reason to feel this way....

Honestly....where did the freaking money go that was supposed to be there? That's what some really don't want to answer...

It's like this commercial....

FrtSVyXjKv4

REDREX

5/22/2011, 07:17 PM

If you run a business, it's probably a small one. Small businesses don't have lobbyists for the most part, so they don't get the benefit of government largess.

But if you don't remember the last time you personally received a tax break, then quite simply, you have a pretty short memory. The state legislature has passed several breaks this session, and of course, Obama extended the Bush tax cuts.

And as a small businessman, if that's what you are, I'm sure you never write off personal expenses as business expenses or anything like that.---You are right I NEVER write-off personal expenses as a business expense----And Yes My partners and I are small about 120 employees and guess what every one of them has health insurance and 401K matching---Come and talk to my employees and explain to them how they are going to be taxed on insurance because our plan is considered a "Cadillac" plan. Are all those business in Pelosi's district that received waivers large companies?--- Nope tell me how fair that is?

bluedogok

5/22/2011, 08:01 PM

I've been lied to and I hate liars. You I guess are going to spend the rest of your life defending them....and getting nothing in return for your efforts?
Then you should have issues with your union bosses as well as the corporate types, they are all professional liars. Face it, the local leaders may have your interests in mind but the national leaders are no different than any other corporate management because that's all a union is, another corporation acting as a middle man and skimming their cut off the backs of the workers.

I do agree that California is a special case and a complete mess and governmental unions are especially cumbersome and a little different than the private sector unions.

StoopTroup

5/22/2011, 08:06 PM

Then you should have issues with your union bosses as well as the corporate types, they are all professional liars.

I do...everyone does.

StoopTroup

5/22/2011, 08:08 PM

Mongo

5/22/2011, 08:10 PM

BTW...The gov't is talking about not allowing folks to withdraw the funds of their 401Ks.

what are they going to pay them with? IOU's?

bluedogok

5/22/2011, 08:15 PM

I do...everyone does.
I know some who do and then I know some fools who think the union leaders are the white knights in their corners and can do no wrong.

REDREX

5/22/2011, 08:23 PM

BTW...The gov't is talking about not allowing folks to withdraw the funds of their 401Ks.---What a joke---Whose money is it?----not the Gov'ts

StoopTroup

5/22/2011, 08:25 PM

I know some who do and then I know some fools who think the union leaders are the white knights in their corners and can do no wrong.

So....why do the good guys have to suffer? We have families and we plan for the future just like anyone else. When you get there and you've played by the rules for 20-30 years...would you side with someone like Cali who is just pissed off about the game?

Some of of are real people who worked hard for our pensions. If I knew it was going to cure cancer and not just to fill up some a-holes yacht or G5...I guess I'd maybe lighten up. Everyone knows it's not. Every dollar we get is taxable and will be spent and returned to the market. We aren't going to off-shore it all to some account in some 3rd World Country.

Seriously....We the people are getting flamed for **** we didn't do. The money Union Bosses are making is a drop in the bucket compared to like say....The Doosh at GE? Remember when his Wife tried to sue for divorce and wanted to be reimbursed for the perks he got as CEO?

Seriously....get off the working man's ***.....

StoopTroup

5/22/2011, 08:29 PM

Bernie Madoff is still laughing at how gullible people are...

Union Bosses are the trouble....LMFAO....

Micheal Milken....

Mongo

5/22/2011, 08:30 PM

someone needs to smoke a doob and chill the eff out

StoopTroup

5/22/2011, 08:31 PM

What's funny is that this mask will be unrecognizable and people won't even know who he is or what he did....

http://www.costumzee.com/view/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/bernard-madoff-mask.png

StoopTroup

5/22/2011, 08:32 PM

someone needs to smoke a doob and chill the eff out

You damn right Mongo....

Freaking emails worse than Nixon....ROTFLMFAO....

Mongo

5/22/2011, 08:35 PM

ST, take a deep breath, go rub one out, and go night night.

This is great for, well, just about any damn situation

StoopTroup

5/22/2011, 08:37 PM

ST, take a deep breath, go rub one out, and go night night.

This is great for, well, just about any damn situation

Quit coming on to me....Dallas will be pissed.

SoCaliSooner

5/22/2011, 08:54 PM

So....why do the good guys have to suffer? We have families and we plan for the future just like anyone else. When you get there and you've played by the rules for 20-30 years...would you side with someone like Cali who is just pissed off about the game?

Seriously....get off the working man's ***.....

I am saying the game, even my game is unsustainable at some point (https://spreadsheets.google.com/lv?key=t-PtlywzhCV6otslGq-hQoA&type=view&gid=0&f=false&colid0=2&filterstr0=LA%20COUNTY%20FIRE%20DEPARTMENT&sortcolid=1&sortasc=true&rowsperpage=250) . At some point changes have to be made. I know how much I make, I know how much I and others could and should contribute but our union demands we fight any initiative that even suggest we pay anything for our pensions, retirement or health care.

I am in it and don't think it's entirely fair, considering what others in the private sector aren't getting and working harder for.

StoopTroup

5/22/2011, 08:59 PM

I am saying the game, even my game is unsustainable at some point (https://spreadsheets.google.com/lv?key=t-PtlywzhCV6otslGq-hQoA&type=view&gid=0&f=false&colid0=2&filterstr0=LA%20COUNTY%20FIRE%20DEPARTMENT&sortcolid=1&sortasc=true&rowsperpage=250) . At some point changes have to be made. I know how much I make, I know how much I and others could and should contribute but our union demands we fight any initiative that even suggest we pay anything for our pensions, retirement or health care.

I am in it and don't think it's entirely fair, considering what others in the private sector aren't getting and working harder for.

Man...you are out of your mind. There's nothing fair in this World. You'd best take what you can get and if you feel you got to much....go help someone in the private sector with some of it. Management is responsible for what's sustainable. They will turn things around as soon as you feel sorry for them. I'd say to you just what I told Leroid....if you don't like the way it's all going down....why are you still a part of it? Get out. Join the private sector. I can't really understand why you guys play this game....I know...you hate the Democrats and don't like being told what to do. Or you hate the fact that they will take your guns. There is always some crazy reason but as soon as you need the Union....you use them. Now...maybe not you...but a good portion of the folks whining about them are. You cut off your hands because you feel bad taking their extra coin?

You make my head spin. Even these Union jobs are American Jobs....paying into the American System. If they could outsource your job somewhere for $3 per hour...they would....

Midtowner

5/22/2011, 09:24 PM

---You are right I NEVER write-off personal expenses as a business expense----And Yes My partners and I are small about 120 employees and guess what every one of them has health insurance and 401K matching---Come and talk to my employees and explain to them how they are going to be taxed on insurance because our plan is considered a "Cadillac" plan. Are all those business in Pelosi's district that received waivers large companies?--- Nope tell me how fair that is?

Well congratulations. Either your employees are skilled and educated, and that's what it costs to get 'em, or you're just a hell of a guy. Either way, your employees probably don't need to organize in order to even out the bargaining power.

If you believe in free markets, you should also believe in the freedom of laborers to organize.

As it stands in most medium to large sized companies, employment is very much a take it or leave it proposition where employees are generally fairly interchangeable. They don't have much bargaining power at all. Employers, generally speaking, will pay as little as they think they can get away with and still keep decent employees. Employers may not like it, but organized labor can make those cogs in their machine a little less interchangeable, and a little bit more expensive, but it's part of the free market and part of the bargaining process.

Now, do I deny that unions have had their excesses? No I don't, no one does. But if you're going to vilify them, what say you regarding corporate types who pack their golden parachutes while running companies into the ground, taking absurd bonuses?

Both sides have their problems, their focus isn't on the long game. That's more a function of the system and the way we've set up the risk/reward aspects of it, with things tied to short term performance rather than long-term viability. And that's one of the disadvantages of our system.

REDREX

5/22/2011, 09:41 PM

Well congratulations. Either your employees are skilled and educated, and that's what it costs to get 'em, or you're just a hell of a guy. Either way, your employees probably don't need to organize in order to even out the bargaining power.

If you believe in free markets, you should also believe in the freedom of laborers to organize.

As it stands in most medium to large sized companies, employment is very much a take it or leave it proposition where employees are generally fairly interchangeable. They don't have much bargaining power at all. Employers, generally speaking, will pay as little as they think they can get away with and still keep decent employees. Employers may not like it, but organized labor can make those cogs in their machine a little less interchangeable, and a little bit more expensive, but it's part of the free market and part of the bargaining process.

Now, do I deny that unions have had their excesses? No I don't, no one does. But if you're going to vilify them, what say you regarding corporate types who pack their golden parachutes while running companies into the ground, taking absurd bonuses?

Both sides have their problems, their focus isn't on the long game. That's more a function of the system and the way we've set up the risk/reward aspects of it, with things tied to short term performance rather than long-term viability. And that's one of the disadvantages of our system.---We have a lot more truck drivers than engineers it is always such a joke to hear about greed and how a business should be run from poeple that have never had to meet a payroll

soonercruiser

5/22/2011, 09:43 PM

Well congratulations. Either your employees are skilled and educated, and that's what it costs to get 'em, or you're just a hell of a guy. Either way, your employees probably don't need to organize in order to even out the bargaining power.

If you believe in free markets, you should also believe in the freedom of laborers to organize.

As it stands in most medium to large sized companies, employment is very much a take it or leave it proposition where employees are generally fairly interchangeable. They don't have much bargaining power at all. Employers, generally speaking, will pay as little as they think they can get away with and still keep decent employees. Employers may not like it, but organized labor can make those cogs in their machine a little less interchangeable, and a little bit more expensive, but it's part of the free market and part of the bargaining process.

Now, do I deny that unions have had their excesses? No I don't, no one does. But if you're going to vilify them, what say you regarding corporate types who pack their golden parachutes while running companies into the ground, taking absurd bonuses?

Both sides have their problems, their focus isn't on the long game. That's more a function of the system and the way we've set up the risk/reward aspects of it, with things tied to short term performance rather than long-term viability. And that's one of the disadvantages of our system.

If you really believe in free markets, and FREEDOM, employess have the right to a job WITHOUT JOINING A UNION!
AND, THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO A SECRET VOTE - Not having Obama and the union thugs watching over their shoulders.....just like any other election in the voting booth.

SCOUT

5/22/2011, 09:53 PM

Sadly...

Employees, generally speaking, will work as little as they think they can get away with and still keep decent jobs.

To ignore that two way street is to be biased.

Midtowner

5/22/2011, 09:53 PM

---We have a lot more truck drivers than engineers it is always such a joke to hear about greed and how a business should be run from poeple that have never had to meet a payroll

I do have to meet a payroll.

Midtowner

5/22/2011, 09:54 PM

Sadly...

To ignore that two way street is to be biased.

You apparently didn't read the whole post.

Midtowner

5/22/2011, 09:55 PM

If you really believe in free markets, and FREEDOM, employess have the right to a job WITHOUT JOINING A UNION!

Except, if they do join, they generally enjoy much greater bargaining power.

AND, THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO A SECRET VOTE - Not having Obama and the union thugs watching over their shoulders.....just like any other election in the voting booth.

Obama? What does that have to do with anything?