For the grammar Nazis...

[rainiersooner]

and those whom bemoan the writing in the Daily Oklahoman; a funny article mourning the death of the English language.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/13/AR2010091304476.html

[delhalew]

I can see that sort of thing being acceptable, if not commonplace, on blogs and message boards. It is the way the language has been abused in newspapers and television news that I find incredible.

When posting on my cellphone, I am satisfied if auto correct doesn't change my words entirely. I abandon all hope of being grammatically correct. That said, if I need be, I can get pretty close to proper English. I get the feeling that is becoming a rare ability.

[picasso]

Colourfully done.

[BudSooner]

Shyte I sea that aul the tyme hear in the lokal papur, tits prettey comnonplayce.

[Chuck Bao]

Agreeance. I am supposed to be a grammar Nazi now that I four months under my belt as an editor for Deutsche Bank Securities in Thailand. I am clearly not cut out for that. I am constantly being scolded by the senior editor for some report that is not following their "conventions for uniform use of the English language" that really make no sense to me. I guess that I just need toughen up and go along with the evolving English language.

Proper English language usage should be getting better now that we have ability to edit and rewrite on a computer screen. But, technology seems to be leading us the other way. I can not imagine what it was like even 20 years ago in rewriting and editing by hand. I would get writers' cramp before I could finish a single page.

[opksooner]

How about this for a sticky....ya know....something subtle?

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/229110_1861250783732_1614837391_1753786_3429156_n. jpg

[silverwheels]

I'll pour some out for the English language later.

[rainiersooner]

I found this article because I was reading Nate Robinson's "tweets" that caused so much hand wringing up here in Seattle. I really had a difficult time understanding what he was saying - so I googled "death of the English language". I don't understand why one can't use twitter while still writing in English. I'm only 37 and I sound like a curmudgeonly geriatric, but still....

[cccasooner2]

Most of the grammar/spelling errors on the internet are caused by haste. It's not a "biggie" in an informal setting because English is pretty forgiving; one can butcher it pretty well and still get the message across. (I have seen examples on here that did escape me though. :) )
In a formal setting, the errors are financially motivated or veiled as such under the “no value added” excuse for laziness. Look at any of the big pharmaceutical judgments for unapproved usages and one has a hard time disagreeing with the logic. Set aside a few billion for the legal expenses, amortize, push the losses into price increases for the legal usages and everything is “just swell”.

My favorite mathematical lost cause was the attempt to make substitutions into equations instead of plugging something into them. I have noticed that from MIT to The Teaching Company, the professors nearly always "plug in".

[delhalew]

The advent of the touch screen phone has pretty much sunk me, but I still make an effort.

[GDC]

Who cares. Languages evolve over time.

[delhalew]

Who cares. Languages evolve over time.

Or devolved as the case may be.

[GDC]

I can't put apostrophe's wherever's I's want's to's put's them's?

[Chuck Bao]

I can't put apostrophe's wherever's I's want's to's put's them's?

That is comedy gold right there. Okay, comedy gold for the grammar nazi in me.

[rainiersooner]

Who cares. Languages evolve over time.

I generally agree with that, because language is a tool for communication and expression. But what if the tools dilute and weaken the communication itself? Isn't that the problem with Twitter? People no longer have to think before they speak, because there are no rules to the communication?

My knickers certainly are not in a wad, and there are bigger problems...but I do think they being held to a certain standard in your writing and speech actually forces the speaker to count to 10 before they communicate, which, in my humble opinion, is better for the whole "art of communication thang #talk it up #grammar nazi #yo beyonce." etc., etc.

[StoopTroup]

So which way are we going? Americanized English, The Kings English or whatever the hell Jenny is using?

[SanJoaquinSooner]

http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af80/sanjoaquinsooner/speling.jpg

[oudavid1]

Being a spelling Nazi is just something people use to get out of stupid arguments they cant win. And yes, im looking at The when i say this.

Because we all know i hate him. Her. Whatever the F*** that thing is.

[proud gonzo]

Most of the grammar/spelling errors on the internet are caused by haste. It's not a "biggie" in an informal setting because English is pretty forgiving; one can butcher it pretty well and still get the message across. (I have seen examples on here that did escape me though. :) )
That is the worst excuse I've ever heard.

[MR2-Sooner86]

I saw this on Facebook and thought if fit in perfectly here.



I'm going to play Fallout 3 on my PC.Dam I dident even kno they made it on pc learn somin new every day

You can try to pull that "evolving language" B.S. but it's you refusing to admit you're an idiot.

Talking like you're butchering ebonics isn't cool or awesome in any way, shape, or form.

[Ctina]

I was in class and my teacher kept getting tongue tied. The loud mouth girl who annoys the hell out of me thought she'd be helpful and told her she needs to "pronunciate her words." I wonder if my laughter confused her.

[Chuck Bao]

I saw this on Facebook and thought if fit in perfectly here.



You can try to pull that "evolving language" B.S. but it's you refusing to admit you're an idiot.

Talking like you're butchering ebonics isn't cool or awesome in any way, shape, or form.

I don't know. I use contractions when posting on SF and I cannot in more formal writing. I use more of my own voice and words here, such as "gonna" instead of "going to". It just seems a little more personable, friendly and down to earth which is really my intent. Obviously, there is a limit to it when it becomes such a distraction from the main point of the post.

[MR2-Sooner86]

I don't know. I use contractions when posting on SF and I cannot in more formal writing. I use more of my own voice and words here, such as "gonna" instead of "going to". It just seems a little more personable, friendly and down to earth which is really my intent. Obviously, there is a limit to it when it becomes such a distraction from the main point of the post.

I agree there are things that can be change the language. For example the word "fixin" which confuses people not from the area.

I don't mean to attack you or anybody else who speaks their mind in their own voice like you with "gonna" or Vet with "pay tention." Again, what gets me is people who speak so badly it hurts to read it. As I said, it's like they're trying to butcher ebonics because for some reason, they think it's cool or an effective way to communicate.

[WichitaSooner]

Yeah, it would be more than refreshing if even half of our country were fluent in at least ONE language.

My favorite bit of irony is that the same person that usually says things like, "They are in our country, they should speak our language" is usually someone that would type the same sentence as, "There in are country..."

But hey, as a professional writer, I guess I can consider it job security. I will officially thank twitter for my next raise.

[1890MilesToNorman]

I'm still waiting for the definition of "is".

One president was questioning the term so I sit here wondering and waiting?

[MR2-Sooner86]

ya it be more than refreshin if half of are country were fluent n at least 1 language

my fav bit of irony are that the same person that usually sayz thingz like they is in our country, they should speek our lingo are usually onez that would type the same sentence as their in r country

but hay as a profesional writer I gues I can sider it job security I will official thank twitter for my next raize

Translated

[3rdgensooner]

I'll pour some out for the English language later.Werd



My favorite bit of irony is that the same person who usually says things like, "They are in our country, they should speak our language" is usually someone that would type the same sentence as, "There in are country..."

But hey, as a professional writer, I guess I can consider it job security. I will officially thank twitter for my next raise.Gosh, I get a kick out of correcting you.

[soonerchk]

I agree there are things that can be change the language. For example the word "fixin" which confuses people not from the area.

I don't mean to attack you or anybody else who speaks their mind in their own voice like you with "gonna" or Vet with "pay tention." Again, what gets me is people who speak so badly it hurts to read it. As I said, it's like they're trying to butcher ebonics because for some reason, they think it's cool or an effective way to communicate.

If they don't understand "fixin to", then it's unlikely they would be my friend.

[proud gonzo]

I don't know. I use contractions when posting on SF and I cannot in more formal writing. I use more of my own voice and words here, such as "gonna" instead of "going to". It just seems a little more personable, friendly and down to earth which is really my intent. Obviously, there is a limit to it when it becomes such a distraction from the main point of the post.
But in essence that just means that you're typing your posts here as dialogue. Slang, phoenetic spellings, and common rather than proper usage is acceptable in that context. But even dialogue should be spelled and punctuated properly.

I don't think the watering down of the language is even just about spelling or where to put a comma. It's more that people have no idea how to structure their sentences or their thoughts. Sure, we could all understand Doleo's misspellings. He sucked at typing, but the sentences usually still made sense if you corrected them in your head. Some people don't even have a clue how to convey their ideas, though. You should read some of the things I have to edit at work. It's sad how many working adults are functionally illiterate.

[C&CDean]

It's sad how many working adults are functionally illiterate.

And 87% of them post here...

[StoopTroup]

Why is it such a huge deal when women have contractions?

[cccasooner2]

And 87% of them post here...

And the rest of them work for the US Postal Service.

[Chuck Bao]

Why is it such a huge deal when women have contractions?

I have no idea either. Maybe, and I am just throwing this out there, you should ask your wife!??!! After all, she is a very smart woman. I asked her to leave you and come stay with me in Bangkok and she refused. I bet you didn't know that. Ha! She probably knows more about contractions than anyone here.

[StoopTroup]

I have no idea either. Maybe, and I am just throwing this out there, you should ask your wife!??!! After all, she is a very smart woman. I asked her to leave you and come stay with me in Bangkok and she refused. I bet you didn't know that. Ha! She probably knows more about contractions than anyone here.

I KNOW YOU DID....YOU WERE TALKING TO MY TROLL YOU BASTID!

[WichitaSooner]

Gosh, I get a kick out of correcting you.


It's a big deal, and you should be proud. ;)

Consider it an Easter egg.

[cccasooner2]

I KNOW YOU DID....YOU WERE TALKING TO MY TROLL YOU BASTID!

Just curious, does she refuse kok often?

[C&CDean]

And the rest of them work for the US Postal Service.

Wrong again. You actually have to pass some tests and **** to get hired there.

[StoopTroup]

Just curious, does she refuse kok often?

She is me. You just aren't getting it huh?

[soonerchk]

It's a big deal, and you should be proud. ;)

Consider it an Easter egg.

Is "half" singular or plural?

[Chuck Bao]

But in essence that just means that you're typing your posts here as dialogue. Slang, phoenetic spellings, and common rather than proper usage is acceptable in that context. But even dialogue should be spelled and punctuated properly.

I don't think the watering down of the language is even just about spelling or where to put a comma. It's more that people have no idea how to structure their sentences or their thoughts. Sure, we could all understand Doleo's misspellings. He sucked at typing, but the sentences usually still made sense if you corrected them in your head. Some people don't even have a clue how to convey their ideas, though. You should read some of the things I have to edit at work. It's sad how many working adults are functionally illiterate.

Gosh, that is just a little bit harsh, Mrs PG, but it is not a bad idea to get people worked up about it. I think the average American has the thought, but the communication is just getting more and more abbreviated.

You are at least consistent, PG. Your views here mirror perfectly your preference for paper text instead of the new electronic versions. Well, I agree with that. I am very old school, like you.

I work with only second-language English speakers and, if truth be told, they have a much higher standard of English than the average American. Some are actually tremendous writers with standards far better than my own.

Americans really should brace for that and not feel all cocky because their tech help line was connected to someone with a heavy accent in India or the Philippines. Some of them can actually write and write quite well.

[WichitaSooner]

Is "half" singular or plural?

half of what?

[3rdgensooner]

I guess my experience is different than many of you. The people with whom I am typically in day-to-day contact have a solid grasp of proper English.

And yes, conversational language is going to be more lax than proper written language.

[soonerchk]

I believe it was our country, but I'm too lazy to go back and look.

[C&CDean]

I guess my experience is different than many of you. The people with whom I am typically in day-to-day contact have a solid grasp of proper English.

And yes, conversational language is going to be more lax than proper written language.

Da **** you say?

[StoopTroup]

Gosh, that is just a little bit harsh, Mrs PG, but it is not a bad idea to get people worked up about it. I think the average American has the thought, but the communication is just getting more and more abbreviated.

You are at least consistent, PG. Your views here mirror perfectly your preference for paper text instead of the new electronic versions. Well, I agree with that. I am very old school, like you.

I work with only second-language English speakers and, if truth be told, they have a much higher standard of English than the average American. Some are actually tremendous writers with standards far better than my own.

Americans really should brace for that and not feel all cocky because their tech help line was connected to someone with a heavy accent in India or the Philippines. Some of them can actually write and write quite well.
Lots of abbreviations are in the dictionary now.

[Chuck Bao]

Lots of abbreviations are in the dictionary now.

NTTIAWWT

[3rdgensooner]

NTTIAWWTIKR

[Chuck Bao]

IKR

I kick some rocks too!

[The]

http://i.imgur.com/E3rxy.jpg

[jkjsooner]

My favorite mathematical lost cause was the attempt to make substitutions into equations instead of plugging something into them. I have noticed that from MIT to The Teaching Company, the professors nearly always "plug in".

I don't get your point. Are you saying we can't use common jargon? As long as the MIT guy knows why he can "plug" one result into another equation then I don't see what you should bitch about - unless you never use similar jargon yourself. I have a feeling you (and everyone else) does but you may not think about it because it isn't one of your pet peeves.

This reminds me of a guy who bitched about the phrase "point in time." He argued that a point is a spacial quantity so using it to refer to a moment in time is wrong. I pointed out to him that both a point on a line and a moment in time are infinitely small quantities and in fact time is often represented graphically by a time line so I see no problem with the term "point in time."


And this brings me to my biggest point. We see writers or journalists complain about the misuse of the English language all of the time. Somehow they expect perfection out of others when it comes to language yet 90% of them have the mathematical background of a 7th grader. I don't go throwing stones at the mathematically illiterate masses and I expect that the people who are in the language fields should not expect perfection out of me.

We all have our strengths and weaknesses and from my experience the ones doing the most complaining have more than their share of weaknesses.

[proud gonzo]

Gosh, that is just a little bit harsh, Mrs PG, but it is not a bad idea to get people worked up about it. I think the average American has the thought, but the communication is just getting more and more abbreviated.

You are at least consistent, PG. Your views here mirror perfectly your preference for paper text instead of the new electronic versions. Well, I agree with that. I am very old school, like you.

I work with only second-language English speakers and, if truth be told, they have a much higher standard of English than the average American. Some are actually tremendous writers with standards far better than my own.

Americans really should brace for that and not feel all cocky because their tech help line was connected to someone with a heavy accent in India or the Philippines. Some of them can actually write and write quite well.
I'm not talking just about abbreviated communication. I understand that the media we use now sometimes requires truncated speech and that becomes habit. As much as that irritates me, that isn't the basis of my objections.

I also understand that language evolves and changes. I don't expect everyone to write like Chaucer or Dickens. I mean that most people don't understand that a basic sentence requires a subject and predicate. They take some nouns, some verbs (or, quite often, nouns used incorrectly as verbs), throw in some other related phrases, and none of the elements have a direct connection to each other. It's like a guessing game. To interpret the sentence you have to guess how those seemingly random elements are supposed to relate to each other.

I'm not just talking out my *** here, either. As a graduate assistant I graded essays from freshman classes as well as undergrad upper classmen. These were mass communication majors. They have to pass a language skills test to get into the program, yet they had no idea how to write papers. The fact that they were above average was frightening.

Here at work I edit about 15 manuscripts a month. That's 2.2 million words so far this year--about 10,000 pages. Of those 62 manuscripts, there are only five that I would actually recommend--and one of those was a book of paintings with captions, so it doesn't really count. In addition to those there were another four authors who could write english well but whose stories sucked. So that's 13% who can actually write. The others weren't just bad; some of them were indecipherable.

And I agree with you. Usually people who speak English as a second (or third) language are more proficient and grammatically correct than native english speakers. They also often have a better vocabulary.

[cccasooner2]

I don't get your point. Are you saying we can't use common jargon? As long as the MIT guy knows why he can "plug" one result into another equation then I don't see what you should bitch about - unless you never use similar jargon yourself. I have a feeling you (and everyone else) does but you may not think about it because it isn't one of your pet peeves.

This reminds me of a guy who bitched about the phrase "point in time." He argued that a point is a spacial quantity so using it to refer to a moment in time is wrong. I pointed out to him that both a point on a line and a moment in time are infinitely small quantities and in fact time is often represented graphically by a time line so I see no problem with the term "point in time."


And this brings me to my biggest point. We see writers or journalists complain about the misuse of the English language all of the time. Somehow they expect perfection out of others when it comes to language yet 90% of them have the mathematical background of a 7th grader. I don't go throwing stones at the mathematically illiterate masses and I expect that the people who are in the language fields should not expect perfection out of me.

We all have our strengths and weaknesses and from my experience the ones doing the most complaining have more than their share of weaknesses.

LOL. My communication skills are definity lacking. My intent was to convey the gripe of a grade school teacher of mine that got all anal (the meaning of that usage had not been discovered yet) on this plug-in but shortened the story too much. Oh well.

[Ctina]

I KNOW YOU DID....YOU WERE TALKING TO MY TROLL YOU BASTID!

Wait.. I thought you were the troll! I'm confused now.