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SoonerHoops
5/10/2011, 11:43 PM
NEW YORK – After decades of debate, the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) on Tuesday struck down a barrier to ordaining gays, ratifying a proposal that removes the celibacy requirement for unmarried clergy, in the latest mainline Protestant move toward accepting gay relationships.

The change was endorsed last year by the Presbyterian national assembly, but required approval by a majority of the denomination's 173 presbyteries, or regional church bodies.

The Presbytery of the Twin Cities Area, based in Minneapolis and St. Paul, Minn., cast the deciding 87th vote Tuesday night. Sixty-two presbyteries have voted against the measure and balloting will continue, but the majority needed for ratification was secured in Minnesota.

"It's a thrilling day," said Sylvia Thorson-Smith, an elder at St. Mark's Presbyterian Church in Tucson, Ariz., whose family advocates for gays and lesbians in the church. She invited 40 people to her house for a party after the vote was announced. "I can't help but think of those who have worked and suffered and endured and hoped for this. Some have not lived to see it."

Differences over the Bible and homosexuality have split Protestant groups nationally and worldwide for years. Within the Presbyterian Church, about 100 of the 11,000 congregations had already broken away ahead of the vote, but a group of large theologically conservative congregations, which calls itself Fellowship, has decided to remain in the denomination for now.

Top Presbyterian executives issued a statement to the church acknowledging that "some will rejoice while others will weep," at the decision.

"However, as Presbyterians, we believe that the only way we will find God's will for the church is by seeking it together — worshipping, praying, thinking and serving alongside one another," the executives wrote.

The measure approved Tuesday eliminates language in the church constitution requiring that clergy live "in fidelity within the covenant of marriage between a man and a woman, or chastity in singleness." The new provision instead requires ministers to "submit joyfully to the Lordship of Jesus Christ in all aspects of life."

Each regional body will decide who it should ordain, and some districts are expected to continue to reject gay and lesbian candidates.

Highland Park Presbyterian Church in Dallas will send a letter to its nearly 5,000 members reaffirming the congregation's commitment to traditional marriage and celibacy for unmarried clergy. The church has formed a task force to study the impact of the new policy.

"While this change is deeply troubling, it does not change (Highland Park church)," the Highland Park senior pastor and elders wrote in the letter. "We have the freedom and the responsibility to continue upholding biblical standards for church officers."

The 2.1 million-member denomination, based in Louisville, Ky., is the latest mainline Protestant group to move toward accepting same-gender relationships.

In 2003, The Episcopal Church caused an uproar in the global Anglican fellowship by consecrating the first openly gay bishop, V. Gene Robinson of New Hampshire. The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, the largest Lutheran group in the country, liberalized its policy toward gay clergy two years ago. The United Church of Christ started ordaining openly gay clergy in 1972, and more recently endorsed same-sex marriage.

The nation's largest mainline group, the United Methodist Church, which has just under 8 million U.S. members, retains its celibacy mandate for unmarried clergy.

In the Presbyterian Church, regional bodies had rejected similar amendments in three previous votes on ordaining gays since 1998. In this latest round of balloting, 19 presbyteries switched their vote in favor of ordaining openly gay and lesbian candidates for ministry.

Among the reasons cited by activists on all sides of the issue: the change in broader American society toward accepting same-sex relationships, weariness of the debate, and the departure of some conservative churches from presbyteries, which changed the balance of votes in some regions.

The new policy will take effect on July 10, after all presbyteries complete their voting.

The much smaller Presbyterian Church in America, a separate denomination, bars ordination for women and openly gay clergy candidates.

SoonerBread
5/10/2011, 11:51 PM
Les-byterians.

:eek: :rolleyes:

SoonerStud615
5/11/2011, 12:19 AM
Proud to be PCA and not PCUSA.

olevetonahill
5/11/2011, 12:25 AM
So? are YOU Presbyterian?
If Not why do YOU care?:rolleyes:

thecynic
5/11/2011, 12:29 AM
seems weird knowing your pastor is porking some other dude.

StoopTroup
5/11/2011, 12:33 AM
Ain't that a kick in the ***.

Wonder when the Jehovah Witnesses are coming out?

olevetonahill
5/11/2011, 12:34 AM
seems weird knowing your pastor is porking some other dude.

So YOU are a Member ?

olevetonahill
5/11/2011, 12:35 AM
Ain't that a kick in the ***.

Sounds to me like its a dick in the ***:eek:

StoopTroup
5/11/2011, 12:35 AM
So YOU are a Member ?
This ain't a pick up joint Vet. Calm down. :D

yermom
5/11/2011, 12:40 AM
Ain't that a kick in the ***.

Wonder when the Jehovah Witnesses are coming out?

Yeah, not the most progressive group...

yankee
5/11/2011, 12:56 AM
ELCA did the same thing, or something very similar. It didn't take long for my church to take a vote to GTFO of the ELCA. See ya...

StoopTroup
5/11/2011, 01:08 AM
ELCA did the same thing, or something very similar. It didn't take long for my church to take a vote to GTFO of the ELCA. See ya...

So it started with the Lutherans?

MsProudSooner
5/11/2011, 07:26 AM
Proud to be PCUSA.

The Profit
5/11/2011, 08:17 AM
I am a proud Presbyterian. It doesn't mean every church has to have a gay pastor. Unlike some churches (e.g. Methodists, Catholics, etc.), each Presbyterian Church session (board of elders) chooses its own pastor. A conservative church, more than likely, will not choose a gay pastor.

Aldebaran
5/11/2011, 08:29 AM
seems weird knowing your pastor is porking some other dude.

Well... You can't have him all to yourself. That is just selfish.

thecynic
5/11/2011, 08:40 AM
Well... You can't have him all to yourself. That is just selfish.



ssiiiiiicckkk burrrrrn!!!!11!!!111

Soonerwake
5/11/2011, 09:00 AM
This is the part that bothers me "Among the reasons cited by activists on all sides of the issue: the change in broader American society toward accepting same-sex relationships".

So, we are to accept something in the church that is specifically sinful just because American society is more accepting of it?? Additionally, it's acceptable to have a minister, the leader of the congregation, preaching every Sunday, all the while knowing that he or she is not only sinning like the rest of us, but is advocating that his or her particular sin, practicing homosexuality, is OK??? I don't get it.. :confused:

AlboSooner
5/11/2011, 09:08 AM
The deceiving of the Church is something the Bible has warned us about.

Aldebaran
5/11/2011, 09:13 AM
Sufficiently vague, but enough to act on if you are prone to "act"

The
5/11/2011, 09:15 AM
This thread is why christianity is a hate group.

AlboSooner
5/11/2011, 09:17 AM
http://www.airbornegamer.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/troll-face-funny.png

yermom
5/11/2011, 09:17 AM
This is the part that bothers me "Among the reasons cited by activists on all sides of the issue: the change in broader American society toward accepting same-sex relationships".

So, we are to accept something in the church that is specifically sinful just because American society is more accepting of it?? Additionally, it's acceptable to have a minister, the leader of the congregation, preaching every Sunday, all the while knowing that he or she is not only sinning like the rest of us, but is advocating that his or her particular sin, practicing homosexuality, is OK??? I don't get it.. :confused:

it worked for divorce, amiright?

soonercruiser
5/11/2011, 09:31 AM
This is the part that bothers me "Among the reasons cited by activists on all sides of the issue: the change in broader American society toward accepting same-sex relationships".

So, we are to accept something in the church that is specifically sinful just because American society is more accepting of it?? Additionally, it's acceptable to have a minister, the leader of the congregation, preaching every Sunday, all the while knowing that he or she is not only sinning like the rest of us, but is advocating that his or her particular sin, practicing homosexuality, is OK??? I don't get it.. :confused:

<This>
I agree. Is there no "Truth" that changes with the whims & sins of society.
A "conscience" must be "informed". By what? The "Word".
There must be some moral truths that do not change, just because we "feel" like it's right.
That means both the Bible and what has been passed down by word or authority over the ages.
*Have noted many other church congregations rejoining the Catholic Church for this reason. (Yes, with all its warts and sins too)
This is where a married minister can become a priest and bring his whole congregation.
As time goes along, there will be more of this - maybe even to the point of eventually returning to one, universal church.

No use discussing the moral "slippery slope" with most of you.

Aldebaran
5/11/2011, 09:36 AM
That looks borderline sociopathic.

Chuck Bao
5/11/2011, 09:37 AM
<This>
I agree. Is there no "Truth" that changes with the whims & sins of society.
A "conscience" must be "informed". By what? The "Word".
There must be some moral truths that do not change, just because we "feel" like it's right.
That means both the Bible and what has been passed down by word or authority over the ages.
*Have noted many other church congregations rejoining the Catholic Church for this reason. (Yes, with all its warts and sins too)
This is where a married minister can become a priest and bring his whole congregation.
As time goes along, there will be more of this - maybe even to the point of eventually returning to one, universal church.

No use discussing the moral "slippery slope" with most of you.

Just so long as the slippery slope is lubricated, then okay and...lock the door.

The Profit
5/11/2011, 09:48 AM
<This>
I agree. Is there no "Truth" that changes with the whims & sins of society.
A "conscience" must be "informed". By what? The "Word".
There must be some moral truths that do not change, just because we "feel" like it's right.
That means both the Bible and what has been passed down by word or authority over the ages.
*Have noted many other church congregations rejoining the Catholic Church for this reason. (Yes, with all its warts and sins too)
This is where a married minister can become a priest and bring his whole congregation.
As time goes along, there will be more of this - maybe even to the point of eventually returning to one, universal church.

No use discussing the moral "slippery slope" with most of you.





I don't know of any church congregations rejoining the Roman Catholic Church. Please name a couple to refresh my memory. I, for one, believe the Roman church would have been much better off allowing priests to get married. It certainly would have reduced the amount of choirboy molestations that have occurred in that particular denomination.

Churches are like clubs. They each have their own rules. In some churches, woman are welcome to serve important roles. In other churches, woman are relegated to cooking and cleaning up after a meal. In some churches, musical instruments, while other churches allow Fender Stratocasters and drums.

There was once a universal Christian church, but corruption and mistreatment of its congregation allowed Martin Luther the avenue to begin the reformation. Since the reformation, even more churches (clubs) have evolved.

Everyone (gay, straight, woman, man, music lover, etc.) has the opportunity to worship. The vast array of churches (clubs) makes it possible for everyone to enjoy fellowship. That is so much better than having one big, ugly, cold and dominating church.

The
5/11/2011, 09:49 AM
while other churches allow Fender Stratocasters



Proof of Devil worship. If it ain't a Les Paul, it's just a toy.

Aldebaran
5/11/2011, 10:23 AM
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e118/Ald3baran/gifs/1158519799533.gif