Our state budget

[badger]

Cuts to higher ed, public ed and transportation.

Link (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=336&articleid=20110510_336_0_OKLAHO669155)

I know that we had to have budget cuts. A big "thank you" in advance to OU donors that will subsidize the state budget cut.

[AlboSooner]

education is overrated, imo.

[soonercruiser]

That translates into no pay raise for me in 4 YEARS!
But, I'm OK with that until the economy improves.

[NormanPride]

As our bridges crumble...

[delhalew]

US 69 south of I 40 could use some work, but I can wait

[AlboSooner]

pay raises and good roads are overrated, imo

[Whet]

Cuts to higher ed, public ed and transportation.

Link (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=336&articleid=20110510_336_0_OKLAHO669155)

I know that we had to have budget cuts. A big "thank you" in advance to OU donors that will subsidize the state budget cut.

Can't see the article because I am not buying a subscription to the TW. If anyone wants to PM their log in, or TW home delivery account number to me, I can sign in to read it. :mad:

[cccasooner2]

Can't see the article because I am not buying a subscription to the TW. If anyone wants to PM their log in, or TW home delivery account number to me, I can sign in to read it. :mad:

I don't have an account but I can cut and paste.

By WAYNE GREENE World Senior Writer
Published: 5/10/2011 1:12 PM
Last Modified: 5/10/2011 5:42 PM


OKLAHOMA CITY -- Gov. Mary Fallin and legislative leaders announced a $6.5 billion state budget deal for fiscal year 2012 on Tuesday.


The overall budget is $217.9 million -- or 3.2 percent -- less than the current budget, including a $97.4 million cut to public school funding and a $58.2 million cut to higher education.

State leaders said they plan supplemental appropriations for public schools, vo-tech schools, and higher education later in the budget year to ease the current budget cuts.

"At the beginning of the legislative session, I asked lawmakers to send me a plan that accomplishes three things: balance the budget without raising taxes; prioritize spending to protect core government agencies like education, public safety, transportation and health and human services; and pass legislation to make the state government smaller, smarter and more efficient," Fallin said. "This budget accomplishes all of those goals."

The budget includes a 7 percent cut to transportation funding, but that money will be made up with a $70 million bond issue that will allow the state road program to continue as planned.

[Memtig14]

If Oklahoma only pays $8,000 per student.....and there are 25 students per class.....that is $200,000 per class. So if a teacher costs somewhere about $50,000 to $60,000 per year........That is a pretty darn big overhead per class. Especially since building are generally paid for by bond issues.

Makes you wonder where it all goes.

[AlboSooner]

The average teacher salary in OK is $38,772 (http://teacherportal.com/teacher-salaries-by-state), which ranks OK near the bottom in teacher salaries. Some websites have OK's average at $42k (http://dcjobsource.com/teachersalaries.html), which is still ranked towards the bottom nationally.

Teacher salaries for schools smaller than 4A are probably lower than OK average. I personally know 5 teachers in 2A and A schools, whose annual salary is around 30K.

On the other hand, we will give out more than $10 Billion to foreign governments around the world.

[Whet]

thanks!

[MsProudSooner2]

pay raises and good roads are overrated, imo

For everyone but CEOs etc.

[mgsooner]

That translates into no pay raise for me in 4 YEARS!
But, I'm OK with that until the economy improves.

4 years? Try 6 for me. By the time this is all over with I am planning on working for the same salary for a decade.

[soonercruiser]

OK genuises!
Anybody (currently living in OKlahoma) got any good ideas?

How about diverting all the MAPS for sports $$ into the state budget?
:O

[mgsooner]

OK genuises!
Anybody (currently living in OKlahoma) got any good ideas?

How about diverting all the MAPS for sports $$ into the state budget?
:O

I have some ideas, but nothing you'll want to hear.

[StoopTroup]

The average teacher salary in OK is $38,772 (http://teacherportal.com/teacher-salaries-by-state), which ranks OK near the bottom in teacher salaries. Some websites have OK's average at $42k (http://dcjobsource.com/teachersalaries.html), which is still ranked towards the bottom nationally.

Teacher salaries for schools smaller than 4A are probably lower than OK average. I personally know 5 teachers in 2A and A schools, whose annual salary is around 30K.

On the other hand, we will give out more than $10 Billion to foreign governments around the world.

What about the bridges?

[Romulus]

Consolidate districts and get rid of 80% of the superintendents

[StoopTroup]

Consolidate districts and get rid of 80% of the superintendents

Didn't Hitler do that?

[badger]

Most small-town superintendents will argue that they do a lot of work, filling multiple admin roles that would be filled by multiple people at larger districts. Some will serve as athletic director, principal and super, all for less than admins of larger districts that only fill one of those roles.

On the other hand, even if they're doing a lot of work, and nobody's questioning how much they all very likely care for the kids and families and well being of their district and state education as a whole, should they be doing it if it would more efficient to just bus a bunch of kids to one centralized location rather than smaller schools closer to certain areas?

I hear that argument whenever there's someone questioning an admin position at a small school and just wanted to throw it out there on here. I don't agree with it. Small schools need consolidation, not administrators.

[soonercruiser]

$6.5 billion Oklahoma budget deal calls for deeper cuts to education
Oklahoma legislators and Gov. Mary Fallin hammer out $6.5 billion deal, which calls for using cash reserves and several revolving funds. Education overall got a 4.7 percent cut, while health and human services were cut 1.2 percent overall.

Public schools and higher education will face their biggest cuts in years in a state budget agreement announced Tuesday by legislative leaders and Gov. Mary Fallin.

Budget cuts for agencies range from less than 1 percent to 9 percent as the Republican leadership, who control the Legislature and the governor's office at the same for the first time in history, wrestled with a $500 million shortfall for the 2012 fiscal year beginning July 1.
House Appropriations and Budget Committee Chairman Earl Sears said leaders aren't upset with public education.
“It wasn't that they fell out of favor,” said Sears, R-Bartlesville. “It's just at this particular time that their cuts were not as small as they have been in the previous years.”
The $6.5 billion package, which has yet to win legislative approval, is 3.2 percent less than this fiscal year's budget of $6.7 billion.

Unlike last year's budget framers, legislative leaders and Fallin had no state savings or federal stimulus funds to shore up the budget. State officials last year used about $1.2 billion of one-time funds to balance the current fiscal year budget.

http://newsok.com/6.5-billion-oklahoma-budget-deal-calls-for-deeper-cuts-to-education/article/3566607


If anyone remembers that far back, there was a lot of discussion last year about the gyrations being done in the Henry budget, that would make this year's harder - if the economy stayed stagnant.

[oudavid1]

education is overrated, imo.

.

[The Profit]

OK genuises!
Anybody (currently living in OKlahoma) got any good ideas?

How about diverting all the MAPS for sports $$ into the state budget?
:O




Maps is a small voluntary tax (sales tax) creating facilities that end up producing revenue of their own. The Maps program has transformed Oklahoma City from a cow town to a respected American city.

I have some ideas. Raise taxes on all Oklahomans making more than $200K per year,and there will be plenty of money for education. Reduce the prison population by releasing anyone that is in prison solely for drug possession, and don't put any new drug abusers in the penal system. That will save millions.

[Jammin']

legalize it.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Maps is a small voluntary tax (sales tax)

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Nice to know putting groceries in my family's belly is considered voluntary participation. Failspin.

[saucysoonergal]

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Nice to know putting groceries in my family's belly is considered voluntary participation. Failspin.

When did you move to OKC?

[Tulsa_Fireman]

The question is when did I move FROM the OKC area.

[saucysoonergal]

The question is when did I move FROM the OKC area.

You must have a long commute to Tulsa.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Nice distracting argument.

I've paid quite a bit into MAPS so keep your feigned indignation hat on the rack.

[saucysoonergal]

feigned indignation hat

What color is it, does it look good on me?

[saucysoonergal]

If you live in OKC I can see you having a beef with MAPS, if you are against it, but if you live outside of OKC and voluntarily come here and spend your money, thanks for that extra penny of sales tax. Don't hate the OKC playerz

[The Profit]

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Nice to know putting groceries in my family's belly is considered voluntary participation. Failspin.




That is a different matter. Normal states do not put a tax on groceries. There should be zero tax on essential food items (they can tax soft drinks and crap like that all they want to).

By the way, unless you live in Oklahoma City, you don't pay a Maps tax anyway. Those in Oklahoma City can voluntarily pay their Maps tax by shopping at a local grocery, or they can go to the suburbs and purchase groceries without the voluntary tax.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

EARTH TO YOU.

I WAS BORN AND RAISED AND USED TO LIVE IN THE OKC METRO.

THAT IS ALL.

[saucysoonergal]

EARTH TO YOU.

I WAS BORN AND RAISED AND USED TO LIVE IN THE OKC METRO.

THAT IS ALL.

USED TOO? WHEN DID YOU MOVE? DO YOU LIKE YELLING?

[The Profit]

EARTH TO YOU.

I WAS BORN AND RAISED AND USED TO LIVE IN THE OKC METRO.

THAT IS ALL.



You still could have purchased your food in Edmond, Moore, Midwest City, Yukon, Mustang, etc. without a single quarter of a cent toward maps. Funny thing, firemen in general, seem to be opposed to Maps.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

YES.

BY THE WAY, THERE'S AN ECHO.

[The Profit]

YES.

BY THE WAY, THERE'S AN ECHO.




Yeah, I think most everyone disagrees with you. We all like what Maps has done for our area. Maybe Tulsa can figure out a way to make a similar program work there.

[Fraggle145]

I don't have an account but I can cut and paste.

By WAYNE GREENE World Senior Writer
Published: 5/10/2011 1:12 PM
Last Modified: 5/10/2011 5:42 PM


OKLAHOMA CITY -- Gov. Mary Fallin and legislative leaders announced a $6.5 billion state budget deal for fiscal year 2012 on Tuesday.


The overall budget is $217.9 million -- or 3.2 percent -- less than the current budget, including a $97.4 million cut to public school funding and a $58.2 million cut to higher education.

State leaders said they plan supplemental appropriations for public schools, vo-tech schools, and higher education later in the budget year to ease the current budget cuts.

"At the beginning of the legislative session, I asked lawmakers to send me a plan that accomplishes three things: balance the budget without raising taxes; prioritize spending to protect core government agencies like education, public safety, transportation and health and human services; and pass legislation to make the state government smaller, smarter and more efficient," Fallin said. "This budget accomplishes all of those goals."

The budget includes a 7 percent cut to transportation funding, but that money will be made up with a $70 million bond issue that will allow the state road program to continue as planned.

Yet arent those the things that got cut the most? :confused:

Why does our state government war against creating an educated populace?

[saucysoonergal]

MAPS 1 passed in December of 1993, so, if you lived here then and were against it, I can see your gripe, but it has done wonderful things for the OKC economy and has made the City a much more wonderful place to live.

[The]

Yet arent those the things that got cut the most? :confused:

Why does our state government war against creating an educated populace?

Because the prisons need customers.

[The Profit]

Yet arent those the things that got cut the most? :confused:

Why does our state government war against creating an educated populace?





Because most of the legislators are lightly educated farmers from rural counties. Education to them means the pig judging at the county and state fair.

[OUmillenium]

Can't see the article because I am not buying a subscription to the TW. If anyone wants to PM their log in, or TW home delivery account number to me, I can sign in to read it. :mad:

Same here. Newsok.com hits have probably skyrocketed since so many of us don't pay for online news when most of it is free. TW did that a few years back also.

PM me a password also if you don't mind, I won't abuse it.

[OUmillenium]

Consolidate districts and get rid of 80% of the superintendents

Winner.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

You still could have purchased your food in Edmond, Moore, Midwest City, Yukon, Mustang, etc. without a single quarter of a cent toward maps. Funny thing, firemen in general, seem to be opposed to Maps.

See, now this is a statement that can be worked with.

Firemen, as an organized body, were against the most recent implementation of MAPS, not MAPS as offered in previous incarnations that I'm aware of. This was based solely in existing manpower shortages, increased demands of service, services provided, and additional departmental cuts required from city leaders from one hand while offering MAPS3 and the ongoing general fund liability unaccounted for in the plan from the other.

It's a legitimate beef. Whether you agree with MAPS3 or not, there are some including myself that find essential municipal core services mandated by our state constitution as priority above streetcars and the world's finest kayak course. But to each his own. Having friends and family that receive these services, I want them to be as viable and effective as they can be.

[The]

Fire departments are socialism.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Yeah, I think most everyone disagrees with you. We all like what Maps has done for our area. Maybe Tulsa can figure out a way to make a similar program work there.

46% of the election results say otherwise.

And that's where the issue lies. When MAPS3 was up for vote, I gnawed the bone with a few folks here and it threatened to degrade into the classic, "you're not from here, go eat a turd" debacle. But I AM from Oklahoma City. I actively supported MAPS the first and second times around and there is no argument whatsoever of the amazing impact it has had. This isn't Joe Tulsa trying to throw darts at his brother down the turnpike.

Given the economy at the time, given the package, given the unfunded general fund liabilities, given the existing and ongoing public safety concerns, and given the fact that I still have people I love who are directly impacted by the current state of affairs in OKC, I didn't believe MAPS3 was the right fit at the right time. To me and mine, shoring up critical public safety services should have taken precedent and MAPS3 as offered would negatively affect funding for these basic functions from the unaccounted general fund liabilities that will come from the operational and maintenance budgets from MAPS3 funded projects.

Does that mean MAPS was stupid or that folks should oppose MAPS? Hell no. But to me, this most recent round could've either waited or been pared down to ensure the stability of existing city functions.

[pphilfran]

You do realize that without MAPS city revenue would be down and there would be even more pressure to cut spending...

You have tunnel vision...

[AlboSooner]

taxing the people in order to improve downtown okc, is socialist

[pphilfran]

taxing the people in order to improve downtown okc, is socialist

Only if it were mandated...the populace voted...

[AlboSooner]

we vote for our elected officials too. it would take a long time for anything to get done if we voted on every single bill

[The Profit]

Only if it were mandated...the populace voted...



And again, the Maps tax itself is a voluntary tax. It taxes only those, who spend their money in Oklahoma City proper.

[saucysoonergal]

And many people now venture into OKC to enjoy the amenities and add more tax dollars into the mix. Tulsa should really try to pass something similar, oh, yeah, they have. ;)

[Tulsa_Fireman]

You do realize that without MAPS city revenue would be down and there would be even more pressure to cut spending...

You have tunnel vision...

Wow.

MAPS does not equal the MAPS extension which also does not equal MAPS3. You're such a knowledgable soul and I'm such a tunnel visioned fool so I'll let you guys talk amongst yourselves.

Wow.

[Condescending Sooner]

Yet arent those the things that got cut the most? :confused:

Why does our state government war against creating an educated populace?

Because education hasn't been cut in the last few years at a rate even close to what other agencies were. Some agencies have been cut up to 22% in the last two years, while education has only been cut 2.9%.

Since education funding is far and away the largest cost of the state, continuing to cut everyone else and leaving them alone just didn't make sense.

[Fraggle145]

Because education hasn't been cut in the last few years at a rate even close to what other agencies were. Some agencies have been cut up to 22% in the last two years, while education has only been cut 2.9%.

Since education funding is far and away the largest cost of the state, continuing to cut everyone else and leaving them alone just didn't make sense.

This may or may not be fair justification. But I just think it goes against the stated goals thats all.

Oklahoma is one of the most uneducated states in the US. Maybe there is a reason that we should be spending more on education.

[Condescending Sooner]

Because most of the legislators are lightly educated farmers from rural counties. Education to them means the pig judging at the county and state fair.

Wow, what an ignorant statement.

[The Profit]

Winner.




Consolidating schools makes great sense, but it isn't going to happen. As I stated earlier, our state legislature is made up primarily of hayseeds from rural areas. Each of these hayseed hicks is going to try and protect each of the little town schools in his/her area. If there are school districts 10-15 miles from each other, they should be consolidated. There should be no exceptions and no exemptions.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Oklahoma is one of the most uneducated states in the US. Maybe there is a reason that we should be spending more on education.

The question you have to ask though is WHY.

Is continuing to throw money at the problem the true solution? Or is it how we do business as opposed to how much we spend?

[The Profit]

Wow, what an ignorant statement.




My statement, while arrogant, was certainly no ignorant. Our legislature is dominated by these hayseeds.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

My statement, while arrogant, was certainly no ignorant. Our legislature is dominated by these hayseeds.

The perjoratives instantly qualify it as ignorant.

[Condescending Sooner]

This may or may not be fair justification. But I just think it goes against the stated goals thats all.

Oklahoma is one of the most uneducated states in the US. Maybe there is a reason that we should be spending more on education.

Total funding levels for education have increased by large numbers in the last few years. We keep throwing money at it (lottery, para-mutual gambling, well-head taxes, increased property taxes), and the education doesn't seem to be getting any better.

Maybe at some point people realize that simply throwing money at the problem doesn't help. Also keep in mind that the funding levels the educators throw out are only for state appropriated funds, they conveniently omit county funding, local funding, property tax, and other income sources.

[The Profit]

The perjoratives instantly qualify it as ignorant.




That is your opinion, but opinions are like azzholes. Everyone has one. We have a legislature that is much more concerned about bs issues (e.g. college kids carrying weapons, abortion, gays, rejected federal money, etc.) than they do about the real quality of life in the state.

[Condescending Sooner]

That is your opinion, but opinions are like azzholes. Everyone has one. We have a legislature that is much more concerned about bs issues (e.g. college kids carrying weapons, abortion, gays, rejected federal money, etc.) than they do about the real quality of life in the state.

What you stated was opinion as well. You completely ignore the real funding levels, and call the legislators hicks and hayseeds because they didn't increase state funding (which is just a portion of total funding). Maybe you should do a little research before you start name calling.

[SoCaliSooner]

Fire departments are socialism.

So are lifeguards.... (http://orangepunch.ocregister.com/2011/05/10/lifeguarding-in-oc-is-totally-lucrative-some-make-over-200k/44783/)

[The Profit]

What you stated was opinion as well. You completely ignore the real funding levels, and call the legislators hicks and hayseeds because they didn't increase state funding (which is just a portion of total funding). Maybe you should do a little research before you start name calling.



No, I called the stupid sob's hayseeds and hicks because they are hayseeds and hicks. They spend too frigging much time of silly social issues instead of taking care of the real business of the state. When they quit acting like hayseeds and hicks, I will refer to them as gentlemen farmers from our prized rural areas. Maybe you should read my posts a little closer.

[Jammin']

So are lifeguards.... (http://orangepunch.ocregister.com/2011/05/10/lifeguarding-in-oc-is-totally-lucrative-some-make-over-200k/44783/)

Damn.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

No, I called the stupid sob's hayseeds and hicks because they are hayseeds and hicks. They spend too frigging much time of silly social issues instead of taking care of the real business of the state. When they quit acting like hayseeds and hicks, I will refer to them as gentlemen farmers from our prized rural areas. Maybe you should read my posts a little closer.

Pretentious urbanites are self-righteous wallet drainers with no consideration for important social and economic issues rural constituents find vital.

See? It works BOTH ways!

[The Profit]

Pretentious urbanites are self-righteous wallet drainers with no consideration for important social and economic issues rural constituents find vital.

See? It works BOTH ways!




I have no problem with that. I am a bit self-righteous, but I am hardly a wallet drainer.

Farmers, though, with federal subsidies are definitely wallet drainers. The Oklahoma rural legislators are the worst, though. They castigate the federal government, but have no problem taking subsidy cash from the federal government. Those hicks and hayseeds didn't want the federal money for healthcare, but I didn't read about a single one of them turning down federal farm subsidy money.

[SoCaliSooner]

Damn.

I know...ryte?

[Fraggle145]

The question you have to ask though is WHY.

Is continuing to throw money at the problem the true solution? Or is it how we do business as opposed to how much we spend?

Probably a little bit of both would be helpful.

You have to have up to date supplies to teach anything period. Consoliodating districts would probably also be helpful. Revising how tenure works (or getting rid of it altogether) would be good. Spending more on more qualified teachers would spur more competition for a better job rather than paying less for some teachers who are glorified babysitters (I by no means mean all teachers, my mother is a teacher) or teachers who came back home because they knew they could get a job at their old school would be useful...

These are the things I can think of off the top of my head.

[ouwasp]

OK genuises!
Anybody (currently living in OKlahoma) got any good ideas?

How about diverting all the MAPS for sports $$ into the state budget?
:O

Haven't read past the 1st page, but here's an idea! Let's have a lottery! That'll solve so many problems... oh... wait...:O :confused: