View Full Version : Very Sad, But very true I feel.
olevetonahill
5/5/2011, 11:49 PM
"An epidemic of disconnection."
That's how writer Bob Woodward has described the increasing distance between the small community of military personnel who are bearing the burden of war and American society in general.
For a while, the flags on porches and magnetic ribbons on cars gave plausibility to the notion that, irrespective of whether Americans supported the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, they supported the troops.
Those wars are now among the nation's longest, and the American people are tired. Not tired of the repeated deployments in which literally 99 percent of them have no part. They have tired of even thinking about war and its consequences for the men and women who have volunteered to serve.
The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq did not remotely factor into the November elections. President Barack Obama gave them only a passing reference in his 62-minute State of the Union address in January. A February CBS News poll found a paltry 4 percent of respondents who thought the wars were the most important issue for the country.
Marine Lt. Gen. John Kelly lost his son, 2nd Lt. Robert Kelly, to a land mine in southern Afghanistan in November. Addressing a group of fellow Marines days later, he expressed his frustration at the epidemic of disconnection.
"We are in a life-and-death struggle, but not the whole country," he was quoted as saying. "One percent of Americans are touched by this war. Then there is a much smaller club of families who have given all."
Army Col. David Sutherland is one of the 1 percenters. As commander of the 3rd Brigade Combat Team in Iraq's Diyala province, Sutherland committed to visit every seriously wounded soldier and pay respects to every dead soldier in his unit, an effort movingly documented by The New York Times in 2007.
SunnySooner
5/6/2011, 12:05 AM
I hear ya, Vet. By God's grace, I was blessed to live among a bunch of folks who took care of me while my sailor turned soldier was deployed. My yard was mowed, my a/c was fixed, my kids were watched when I had a dentist appt. My street was lined with yellow ribbons for the entire 13 months. And this was just last year, so while I understand what the General is saying, I just want to report that it's not everywhere. Lots of peeps out there still care. Very much.
2121Sooner
5/6/2011, 12:13 AM
Come live down near Joint Base Lewis-McCord and you will feel differently. Drive under Freedom Bridge and you know the soldiers out at JBLM know they are respected and loved
olevetonahill
5/6/2011, 12:14 AM
Thats just it hon , The Country has grown weary of this. Our Troops dont have that luxury. They are repeatedly sent back because we dont have the Draft like we did in nam.
These Young people are worn the slam out.
Get em HOME NOW. Or Draft replacements.:pop:
olevetonahill
5/6/2011, 12:16 AM
Come live down near Joint Base Lewis-McCord and you will feel differently. Drive under Freedom Bridge and you know the soldiers out at JBLM know they are respected and loved
Specific Areas Im sure, This guy is talking the Country as a whole. Pay Tention
More
http://www.timesunion.com/default/article/Troops-valor-isn-t-enough-1116457.php#ixzz1LXEwjo7L
Get em HOME NOW. Or Draft replacements.:pop:
The 1st one.
Or the Govts reasons for these "Noble" endeavours need to get better.
olevetonahill
5/6/2011, 12:20 AM
The 1st one.
Or the Govts reasons for these "Noble" endeavours need to get better.
Why I said that Bro. This country wont tolerate a Draft.
Just bring our Troops Home.;)
well, when you can't "win" i'm not sure what the solution is
olevetonahill
5/6/2011, 01:14 AM
well, when you can't "win" i'm not sure what the solution is
Its the same old story bro, Its not a matter of CAINT its a matter of not wanting to Pizz off the the wrong bunch.
Get ****ing Politics out of WAR,
Get ****ing Politics out of WAR,
Geopolitics. I think its unavoidable.
olevetonahill
5/6/2011, 01:31 AM
Geopolitics. I think its unavoidable.
Like I said Cody, Politicians got more folks killed than ****in religion :mad:
I'm not disagreein with ya, bud.
Its the same old story bro, Its not a matter of CAINT its a matter of not wanting to Pizz off the the wrong bunch.
Get ****ing Politics out of WAR,
it's not like the old days where we would be fighting some nation-state
dudes in turbans hiding in mountains aren't going to give up when you take out their capital/leader. they basically don't have one.
i'm thinking public support for the wars has to wane a bit now that we got Osama
RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
5/6/2011, 02:18 AM
it's not like the old days where we would be fighting some nation-state
dudes in turbans hiding in mountains aren't going to give up when you take out their capital/leader. they basically don't have one.
i'm thinking public support for the wars has to wane a bit now that we got OsamaIt's early on, but not many folks seem to be giving much honest thought to what's happening in the Middle East and N Africa, with the many recent revolutions. The eventual outcome is not likely to be friendly.
CrimsonRez
5/6/2011, 04:17 AM
I agree with Vet on the fact that we CAN win this war but we HAVE to keep the damn political correctness out. I've been to Iraq twice and believe me if we REALLY wanted to we could have been done with this thing in July of 2003. But you can't go WW2 style on people anymore so that is out of the question.
i guess i don't understand "WWII" style
when we had obviously defeated Japan or Germany they surrendered, right?
how long did we have to occupy them before there weren't people trying to shoot or bomb us?
delhalew
5/6/2011, 08:09 AM
Chasing Al Queda I get. You can call me names if you want, but in the future, I would appreciate it if we didn't go try to keep Muslims from killing each other. It's what they enjoy, and we can't stop them. So next time they want to use that excuse, I say they can **** off.
God forbid we had a real national security emergency, and had to defend our selves. All our heros are in the sandbox.
The Profit
5/6/2011, 09:34 AM
Like I said Cody, Politicians got more folks killed than ****in religion :mad:
Vet, you are correct. The problem is not politics as much as it is money (if the two can be separated). The military industrial complex is a monster that has to be continuously fed. It is no accident that we have either been at war, or selling weapons to other countries at war since WWII ended.
Until we kill the military industrial complex (virtually impossible to do because of huge lobbying efforts), we will continue to be at war, and we will continue to stoke the embers of war in other nations. There is just too much money to be made.
CrimsonRez
5/6/2011, 10:07 PM
i guess i don't understand "WWII" style
when we had obviously defeated Japan or Germany they surrendered, right?
how long did we have to occupy them before there weren't people trying to shoot or bomb us?
What I meant was we couldn't just drop a nuke on Baghdad and been done with it. We also can't bomb the **** out of Kabul and Kandahar and all these Taliban strong holds like we did Berlin with the Nazi's. We have all this political correctness these days. If we had the same media input and all these tree huggers in WW2 that we have today, we would have had our asses handed to us by the Germans.
Aldebaran
5/6/2011, 10:23 PM
What I meant was we couldn't just drop a nuke on Baghdad and been done with it. We also can't bomb the **** out of Kabul and Kandahar and all these Taliban strong holds like we did Berlin with the Nazi's. We have all this political correctness these days. If we had the same media input and all these tree huggers in WW2 that we have today, we would have had our asses handed to us by the Germans.
Pretty sure there is a larger public cross section that does not/would not support nuking Baghdad or firebombing civilians in Afghanistan than what could be identified as "tree hugger." A laughable suggestion.
Global perceptions have to be managed as well. These are international market wars afterall.
StoopTroup
5/6/2011, 10:56 PM
What you are feeling is why I started this thread this year Vet.
I felt that the disconnect needed to be addressed through School and that at the very least some JROTC should be put in place in our Schools. Kids need to understand what having a little discipline or even what having a little discipline feels like before they are turned loose into the real world in our Country.
http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152185&highlight=draft
StoopTroup
5/6/2011, 11:05 PM
What I meant was we couldn't just drop a nuke on Baghdad and been done with it. We also can't bomb the **** out of Kabul and Kandahar and all these Taliban strong holds like we did Berlin with the Nazi's. We have all this political correctness these days. If we had the same media input and all these tree huggers in WW2 that we have today, we would have had our asses handed to us by the Germans.
We damn sure had the balls to put boots on the ground in a Foreign Country without Congressional Approval to kill Osama Bin Laden. Why did the Republicans raise so much hell about Gaddafi it it was OK to go into Pakistan?
Seriously....this is all about politics and the POTUS just got away with attacking another Country.
I'm glad he did it. It was the right thing to do.....but no way we lose to the Germans. Ever. That's a bunch of made up psycho-babble.
CrimsonRez
5/6/2011, 11:30 PM
We damn sure had the balls to put boots on the ground in a Foreign Country without Congressional Approval to kill Osama Bin Laden. Why did the Republicans raise so much hell about Gaddafi it it was OK to go into Pakistan?
Seriously....this is all about politics and the POTUS just got away with attacking another Country.
I'm glad he did it. It was the right thing to do.....but no way we lose to the Germans. Ever. That's a bunch of made up psycho-babble.
You're right it is all about politics, and for the part where we had the balls to go into Pakistan you are right about also, it took a lot of balls to do that. However, its not like we sent 2-101AB after him. It was a small team in and out quickly.
As for the Germans, if we would had been handcuffed back then like we are now. It is undeniable that we would have had a MUCH harder time with them.
StoopTroup
5/6/2011, 11:35 PM
Thing about the German is this....
We weren't the ones they went to War with. We watched them kill a ****load of people before we ever got involved. To act like there wasn't a bunch of political correctness going on back then is incorrect IMO.
Wilson clearly didn't want to go to War when he finally made the decision to do it. When I was in History...I had a History Teacher that I guess felt Wilson was a huge ***** for not getting us involved a lot earlier.
Had we gotten involved earlier....maybe we would have had an even easier time with them.
During the war, Wilson focused on diplomacy and financial considerations, leaving the waging of the war itself primarily in the hands of the Army. On the home front in 1917, he began the United States' first draft since the American Civil War, raised billions of dollars in war funding through Liberty Bonds, set up the War Industries Board, promoted labor union cooperation, supervised agriculture and food production through the Lever Act, took over control of the railroads, and suppressed anti-war movements. While he did not encourage the wave of anti-German sentiment sweeping the country in 1917-18, he did nothing to stop it.
WWII
September of 1939 we Publicly declared Neutrality
Until Japan attacked us....we stayed neutral.
We kicked Japans *** and then dropped two Atom Bombs on their asses. After Pearl Harbor we joined in to assist the United Kingdom in their fight against the Germans by giving them our vast resources to help push the Germans back into Germany and utter defeat.
We didn't jump right in to stop the Germans back then and if we had....maybe it would have been over a long time before that.
Japan really wanted to take us out so that we wouldn't turn towards Germany.
StoopTroup
5/6/2011, 11:58 PM
Maybe I'm wrong. I've had some benedryl for these allergies and I feel pretty wiped out.
That's just how I was taught about the Wars.
Didn't we fight in Europe at the same time and the Pacific theatre was towards the end? Didn't Japan surrender after Hitler?
As a WWII "buff", I wanna say something but my brain is fried. jfdlkiownz;poie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II
No. I'm going to bed. Sheesh yankee...
Didn't we fight in Europe at the same time and the Pacific theatre was towards the end? Didn't Japan surrender after Hitler?
he said "after Pearl Harbor"
chronology looks okay to me
What I meant was we couldn't just drop a nuke on Baghdad and been done with it. We also can't bomb the **** out of Kabul and Kandahar and all these Taliban strong holds like we did Berlin with the Nazi's. We have all this political correctness these days. If we had the same media input and all these tree huggers in WW2 that we have today, we would have had our asses handed to us by the Germans.
does it really matter what kind of bombs we drop?
it's not Baghdad that was the problem. "Mission Accomplished" was pretty early on. the government was out of power. now what?
StoopTroup
5/7/2011, 03:04 AM
Muther ****ers betta not be back checking my **** yo. I'll put a Hitler Pimp slappin' on yo axe.
Peach Fuzz
5/7/2011, 05:16 AM
I agree with Vet on the fact that we CAN win this war but we HAVE to keep the damn political correctness out. I've been to Iraq twice and believe me if we REALLY wanted to we could have been done with this thing in July of 2003. But you can't go WW2 style on people anymore so that is out of the question.
I agree with your point, but it's totally different in that Germany was fighting damn near to total defeat. This isnt as fierce of resistance, and if it was we would have used the proper force to end it.
Chuck Bao
5/7/2011, 06:13 AM
I have no idea what you guys are talking about.
Maybe there isn't a disconnect at all and the original article writer was making a roundabout point about an ill-defined, open-ended, never ending war and how the public is growing weary of it.
I refuse to believe that there is any waning of support for our men and women serving in our armed forces.
Our cousins in Mississippi recently showed how it is done when a true hero returns home for the final time. I really don't think that us Okies would show up any less.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6n08Z9495E&feature=player_embedded
olevetonahill
5/7/2011, 06:30 AM
I have no idea what you guys are talking about.
Maybe there isn't a disconnect at all and the original article writer was making a roundabout point about an ill-defined, open-ended, never ending war and how the public is growing weary of it.
I refuse to believe that there is any waning of support for our men and women serving in our armed forces.
Our cousins in Mississippi recently showed how it is done when a true hero returns home for the final time. I really don't think that us Okies would show up any less.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6n08Z9495E&feature=player_embedded
Chuck, I agree, I believe the Intent was more to show the weariness that has overcome us. But also the degree of Apathy that has come over a Lot of people.
I wonder how many have Visited a VA Hospital?Oh well. Still love every one.:D
CrimsonRez
5/7/2011, 06:59 AM
Chuck, I agree, I believe the Intent was more to show the weariness that has overcome us. But also the degree of Apathy that has come over a Lot of people.
I wonder how many have Visited a VA Hospital?Oh well. Still love every one.:D
An even smaller number have visited a field hospital
Chuck Bao
5/7/2011, 07:07 AM
Chuck, I agree, I believe the Intent was more to show the weariness that has overcome us. But also the degree of Apathy that has come over a Lot of people.
I wonder how many have Visited a VA Hospital?Oh well. Still love every one.:D
That is a very good thought. I have never visited a VA Hospital and I now promise you that I will. I am not sure what I will and can do, but I promise to help as much as I can.
I just love the big sign over the door at the Madill nursing home. It reads: "History lives here!" Since my grandma passed on, I no longer have a reason to go there every day when I am home. But, I still want to go back and enjoy eating meals with some really incredible people. I imagine the reward of getting to know some veterans of foreign wars would be getting a personal perspective of a slice of history that is literally priceless.
olevetonahill
5/7/2011, 07:11 AM
There are veteran centers just about every where.
Speaking of signs theres one at Muskogee V.A.
"The Price of Freedom is evident here" or real close to that.Been several years since I have been there
soonercruiser
5/7/2011, 07:17 PM
The 1st one.
Or the Govts reasons for these "Noble" endeavours need to get better.
No.
I think that is a general reflection of the people in the country pulling the wago; and thoise just happy riding the wagon.
(In general - they would rather have the defense budget added to their social programs)
soonerloyal
5/7/2011, 08:28 PM
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a14/KevAndLori/americaisatthemall.jpg
The Corps, the Navy, the Army, the Air Force, the Coast Guard. But America? America hasn't sacrificed s*** for war since WWII.
But God, were Smedley Butler & Ike right on the nose.
and you dont come across as bitter at all
soonerloyal
5/7/2011, 08:38 PM
**** off, dip****. :D
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