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stonecoldsoonerfan
5/4/2011, 02:03 PM
does anyone have one of these things? the mrs. and i were thinking about getting a shelter and these seem more inexpensive that the underground ones that go in the back yard (we don't have the room to have one put in our home).

any good/bad experiences with these? anyone that does these that is recommended? we live in the edmond area. thanks in advance.

okie52
5/4/2011, 02:09 PM
does anyone have one of these things? the mrs. and i were thinking about getting a shelter and these seem more inexpensive that the underground ones that go in the back yard (we don't have the room to have one put in our home).

any good/bad experiences with these? anyone that does these that is recommended? we live in the edmond area. thanks in advance.

I have one. It was already in the home when I bought it 8 years ago.

No problems with it. You don't have to get wet if you head to the shelter.

Romulus
5/4/2011, 02:09 PM
I had one put in when we built our house, haven't used it yet(knock on wood) but the wife likes it for peace of mind

Hot Rod
5/4/2011, 02:12 PM
I had one put in when we built our house, haven't used it yet(knock on wood) but the wife likes it for peace of mind

If you don't mind me asking, we're having a house built this year and was thinking about getting one as well, and I was wondering about how much those cost to be put in?

yermom
5/4/2011, 02:13 PM
do you just pray that your car doesn't end up on top of it, or what?

Ike
5/4/2011, 02:14 PM
We have one...came with the house we bought (interestingly, didn't know it was there until the final walkthru because a car was covering it when we toured the house). Anyway, we've only been down in it once. Pretty small and cramped. I do worry a little bit about the possibility of being trapped in there if for instance the house came tumbling down on top of it. Also, we have to clean it out every spring because invariably during the winter a couple of mice will find their way into it and can't get back out....

Otherwise, it makes for a great oil-changing station. Just watch your head.

As for whether to recommend or not recommend...I'm not sure. If I had my druthers, I'd prefer a backyard one...certainly one big enough to stand in. But it'll do in a pinch.

OutlandTrophy
5/4/2011, 02:16 PM
I think you can let the fire department know that you have one and when/if your house is flattened they will come looking for you to make sure there is not a car ontop of your fraidy hole.

Ike
5/4/2011, 02:17 PM
I think you can let the fire department know that you have one and when/if your house is flattened they will come looking for you to make sure there is not a car ontop of your fraidy hole.

Yeah...we have registered it with the FD for just that reason.

Also, since it's in the 3rd bay, there's never a car intentionally parked over it...

pphilfran
5/4/2011, 02:18 PM
We have one...came with the house we bought (interestingly, didn't know it was there until the final walkthru because a car was covering it when we toured the house). Anyway, we've only been down in it once. Pretty small and cramped. I do worry a little bit about the possibility of being trapped in there if for instance the house came tumbling down on top of it. Also, we have to clean it out every spring because invariably during the winter a couple of mice will find their way into it and can't get back out....

Otherwise, it makes for a great oil-changing station. Just watch your head.

As for whether to recommend or not recommend...I'm not sure. If I had my druthers, I'd prefer a backyard one...certainly one big enough to stand in. But it'll do in a pinch.

You have to park a car outside so you can enter the shelter?

If that is the case I would pass...move the car outside so the inevitable hail beats the snot out of it while the nader misses your house by mile or never materializes....

C&CDean
5/4/2011, 02:18 PM
Not for me. Ain't much I fear other than cramped spaces. I go outside and watch for the tornados, and if one is coming I head for a tin horn down front under the driveway. No way in hell I'm crawling in a hole where the whole damn house might fall over the exit.

Ike
5/4/2011, 02:18 PM
You have to park a car outside so you can enter the shelter?

If that is the case I would pass...move the car outside so the inevitable hail beats the snot out of it while the nader misses your house by mile or never materializes....

No. we have a 3 car garage. It's in the 3rd bay which is more like a workshop now than a garage.

3rdgensooner
5/4/2011, 02:22 PM
My home has poured concrete walls. I either hang out in a windowless room or go out on the porch for a look-see.

The
5/4/2011, 02:24 PM
My home has poured concrete walls. I either hang out in a windowless room or go out on the porch for a look-see.


This. If Sky Death is going to knock down my walls, it's prolly going to yank me out of the ground as well.

The Profit
5/4/2011, 02:25 PM
Not for me. Ain't much I fear other than cramped spaces. I go outside and watch for the tornados, and if one is coming I head for a tin horn down front under the driveway. No way in hell I'm crawling in a hole where the whole damn house might fall over the exit.




I have to agree with you Dean. I am claustrophobic enough on small airplanes.

pphilfran
5/4/2011, 02:26 PM
No. we have a 3 car garage. It's in the 3rd bay which is more like a workshop now than a garage.

Most people don't have a three car garage...it works for you but it wouldn't for me...

If I were going to have a shelter I think I would look at installing a TT design in a walk in closet...

http://www.depts.ttu.edu/weweb/Shelters/InResShelter.php

Basically, I am in the C&C camp...

3rdgensooner
5/4/2011, 02:27 PM
We did have a "fraidy-hole" in our garage when I was a kid. My parents put cots in there for middle of the night 'nader raids. My mom was pretty neurotic about the storms and it made her feel better.

I've lived in twister capital state all of my life and I just don't get all squidgy about storms.

Romulus
5/4/2011, 02:32 PM
If you don't mind me asking, we're having a house built this year and was thinking about getting one as well, and I was wondering about how much those cost to be put in?
it was 2 or 3K, much cheaper now than later, may have even been 1K, its been 7 years ago. They put it in when you are doing your foundation.

You also register your shelter with the City of Edmond, so if a nader does come through they know to come by and check your shelt to see if you are blocked in.

C&CDean
5/4/2011, 02:33 PM
it was 2 or 3K, much cheaper now than later, may have even been 1K, its been 7 years ago. They put it in when you are doing your foundation.

You also register your shelter with the City of Edmond, so if a nader does come through they know to come by and check your shelt to see if you are blocked in.

while in the meantime I'm ripping the flesh from my fingers trying to dig out in a mad panic. No thanks.

Romulus
5/4/2011, 02:45 PM
better than being blown away

C&CDean
5/4/2011, 02:47 PM
Not for me.

DIB
5/4/2011, 02:53 PM
while in the meantime I'm ripping the flesh from my fingers trying to dig out in a mad panic. No thanks.

This. I would rather get sucked up into a tornado than spend 5 minutes in a confined space.

stonecoldsoonerfan
5/4/2011, 02:54 PM
I think you can let the fire department know that you have one and when/if your house is flattened they will come looking for you to make sure there is not a car ontop of your fraidy hole.


http://www.okc.gov/action/StormShelter/Welcome.aspx

stonecoldsoonerfan
5/4/2011, 02:56 PM
Not for me.

dean, you personally blow us all away....:D :dean:

okie52
5/4/2011, 02:57 PM
I have a 3.5 car garage so I don't have to worry about a car being over it....at least until after the storm. It seems deep and large enough for 6-8 people fairly comfortably.

On mine, however, they didn't put a latch on the door so I have to use straps to secure it. We've had some tornadoes come close to my house so we've used it a few times. We've had my Boxer go down those stairs and that's a pain.

Probably get killed by a tornado late at night while we're asleep.

stonecoldsoonerfan
5/4/2011, 02:59 PM
Probably get killed by a tornado late at night while we're asleep.

that's what weather radios are for. we have one that goes beserk and wakes us up at night if a 'nado comes near.

The
5/4/2011, 02:59 PM
weather radios

Oh mai.

okie52
5/4/2011, 03:01 PM
that's what weather radios are for. we have one that goes beserk and wakes us up at night if a 'nado comes near.

I've got one...but I quit using it because I live in Edmond and it would go off when a tornado was near Norman.

DIB
5/4/2011, 03:05 PM
Weather. Radios. Save. Lives.


Wxtits, amiryte?

The
5/4/2011, 03:08 PM
Weather. Radios. Save. Lives.


Wxtits, amiryte?


Of all the meltdowns, THAT ranked near the top.

dynersooner
5/4/2011, 03:08 PM
I had one put in when we built our house, haven't used it yet(knock on wood) but the wife likes it for peace of mind

yeah, um, rom, ive been meaning to talk to you about that.

um, maybe you havent used it, but, uh, um, your wife has used it for a piece of something...

pphilfran
5/4/2011, 03:08 PM
I've got one...but I quit using it because I live in Edmond and it would go off when a tornado was near Norman.

I think the new ones are more area specific....

http://www.ambientweather.com/miwrwealra.html

NormanPride
5/4/2011, 03:09 PM
My home has poured concrete walls. I either hang out in a windowless room or go out on the porch for a look-see.
ICF? Or just regular concrete construction?

3rdgensooner
5/4/2011, 03:11 PM
ICF? Or just regular concrete construction?
I would be happy to answer that for you if I knew what it meant.

My home was built in 1945 and has concrete walls. That is the extent of my knowledge on the subject.

NormanPride
5/4/2011, 03:12 PM
Ah, then not ICF. That stuff's new.

okie52
5/4/2011, 03:16 PM
I think the new ones are more area specific....

http://www.ambientweather.com/miwrwealra.html

I'll check into that. Mine does have a crank on it so you can generate a little electricity when the battery runs down.

tator
5/4/2011, 03:24 PM
So what do you call people that are too fraidy to go into the fraidy hole?

Mississippi Sooner
5/4/2011, 03:31 PM
So what do you call people that are too fraidy to go into the fraidy hole?

Dorothy and Toto?

3rdgensooner
5/4/2011, 03:39 PM
Dorothy and Toto?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v424/gen3sooner/MiscPictures/MISSGULCH.jpg

C&CDean
5/4/2011, 03:45 PM
So what do you call people that are too fraidy to go into the fraidy hole?

Claustrophobic?

Mjcpr
5/4/2011, 03:46 PM
So what do you call people that are too fraidy to go into the fraidy hole?

*****?

achiro
5/4/2011, 03:52 PM
Ours was already installed on the back porch when we bought the house and it is huge. 7'widex11'long and 8 foot ceilings. I don't feel claustrophobic in it at all but have been having bad thoughts about what would happen if the house fell on to of it and then caught fire or a water pipe started pouring water in with us in it. I may freak out the next time we have to get in it. :(

C&CDean
5/4/2011, 03:53 PM
So what do you call people that are too fraidy to go into the vajajay of a female?

Pat?

3rdgensooner
5/4/2011, 03:54 PM
I recall my Grandfather (1stgensooner) had a in-ground storm shelter out by his garden but it was completely off-limits because it was scorpion infested.

achiro
5/4/2011, 03:55 PM
Oh speaking of claustrophobic, check out these bad boy safe "rooms"
http://www.naturesfury.net/safe_rooms/5_person_workbench/5_person_bench_safe_room_1_inverted.gif

The
5/4/2011, 03:56 PM
Oh speaking of claustrophobic, check out these bad boy safe "rooms"
http://www.naturesfury.net/safe_rooms/5_person_workbench/5_person_bench_safe_room_1_inverted.gif

Very much like this one:

http://www.filmschoolrejects.com/images/human-centipede-sketch.jpg

Mjcpr
5/4/2011, 04:02 PM
Oh speaking of claustrophobic, check out these bad boy safe "rooms"
http://www.naturesfury.net/safe_rooms/5_person_workbench/5_person_bench_safe_room_1_inverted.gif

I think I rode to the top of the St Louis Arch in one of those.

C&CDean
5/4/2011, 04:09 PM
I think I rode to the top of the St Louis Arch in one of those.

Don't even make me tell my arch story. I almost got arrested when I finally got to the top and told the guy "I'm walking down, no way in hell I'm getting back in that little steel ball." Eventually, they let me ride down by myself without 6 other sweaty lardasses smashing me into the wall. Bad memories man.

NormanPride
5/4/2011, 04:15 PM
I feel you, brother. I can't stand small spaces, and even seeing movies about coal mining or other close quarters stuff gives me the willies.

DIB
5/4/2011, 04:22 PM
Just the trailer for that movie Buried would make me have a near panic attack.

C&CDean
5/4/2011, 04:25 PM
Riding that POS Metro in DC every day the past 4 months helped a lot in terms of handling the cramped spaces, but I still had to lean/elbow people off me all the time.

I think it goes back to my big sister locking me up in a tuba case when I was a little **** or something.

The Profit
5/4/2011, 04:34 PM
Riding that POS Metro in DC every day the past 4 months helped a lot in terms of handling the cramped spaces, but I still had to lean/elbow people off me all the time.

I think it goes back to my big sister locking me up in a tuba case when I was a little **** or something.




I had two mean big sisters, who used to do crap like that to me every day. That's what made me the way I am.

NormanPride
5/4/2011, 04:36 PM
The Tube in London got delayed one time while it was under ground. I think it was for a total of about 2 minutes. I was hyperventilating big time.

C&CDean
5/4/2011, 04:38 PM
I had two mean big sisters, who used to do crap like that to me every day. That's what made me the way I am.

I had two as well. They used to beat me unmercifully and my dad would just sit there and read the paper and crap. Then, one day when I wasy maybe 11-12 or so I had enough. I body slammed my sister after she had been holding me down doing the spit dribble towards my face and then sucking it up. The minute I did my dad beat the ever lovin' **** outta me going "you don't hit on no girl boy!" I go "she's been beating my *** for 12 years though." He goes "no matter, men don't hit women." I go "cool."

I will say this though. That amazon girl never touched me again after that, and neither did my other big BIG sis.

Mjcpr
5/4/2011, 04:46 PM
They used to beat me unmercifully and my dad would just sit there and read the paper and crap.

I think is part of the problem as well.....nobody needs to see that together as a family.

stonecoldsoonerfan
5/4/2011, 05:02 PM
Claustrophobic?

no, you call them C&C Dean.

oudavid1
5/4/2011, 05:15 PM
I have one. It was already in the home when I bought it 8 years ago.

No problems with it. You don't have to get wet if you head to the shelter.

You want me to hold your purse too so it dosnt get wet?

lol just kiddin :D


I recall my Grandfather (1stgensooner) had a in-ground storm shelter out by his garden but it was completely off-limits because it was scorpion infested.

ok f*** that sh**. Ill burn those f***ing things out.


Im so glad i nada chase so i dont have to be stationary when these things come around.

SunnySooner
5/4/2011, 05:43 PM
My inlaws had the garage thingy done, it was less than 2k, IIRC, and it's pretty big. It makes ME feel better knowing they have one, fo sho.

I spent a third of my childhood in our old backyard cellar. Good times.:eek:

On another note, however, I exist because of a 'nader. My mom's parents went to their old neighbor's cellar, and met a new-to-the-area young couple, my dad's sister and her hubby. They got to chatting, ya know, our daughter is 18 and about to be an old maid, oh really, my little brother is 20 and in the Marines, he'd love a pen pal...badabing, badaboom...SunnySooner.

So see, those horrible storms and damp, dark, tiny spaces aren't all bad!!!

jkjsooner
5/4/2011, 05:54 PM
My parents built a room over our cellar and had a trap door in the floor to access it. The only thing is that it no longer has a heavy metal. The floor will bolt down but I guess if you had an F5 you'd have to worry about being sucked out of the thing.

This whole discussion really shows why few people in Oklahoma/Texas/Kansas die when huge tornadoes hit these areas. We're just a lot more prepared than they are in other places.

jkjsooner
5/4/2011, 05:56 PM
On another note, however, I exist because of a 'nader. My mom's parents went to their old neighbor's cellar, and met a new-to-the-area young couple, my dad's sister and her hubby. They got to chatting, ya know, our daughter is 18 and about to be an old maid, oh really, my little brother is 20 and in the Marines, he'd love a pen pal...badabing, badaboom...SunnySooner.


Totally misread this the first time. I thought you said "my parents" (not my mom's parents) went to a neighbor's cellar. Reading it that way sure seemed to lead to you being the child of a wild sex party - or at least doing it in front of the neighbors. :-)

reading comprehension fail

soonercruiser
5/4/2011, 08:20 PM
do you just pray that your car doesn't end up on top of it, or what?

I actually park the car towards the back end of the shelter (in-the-floor garage shelter), so that if the ceiling collapses, or there is a pile of debris, that I have a chance to get out easily.

Ours was around $2,500, 6 years ago.
But don't pay more for the "flat to the floor one".
I ended up thinking that if a water line broke in the garage wall, that the shelter might be flooded.
So, I built up small tile trim around the edge.
Just use the stick up one, and be careful when you walk around it.
(And, spray occassionally for spiders) :O

soonercruiser
5/4/2011, 08:22 PM
You have to park a car outside so you can enter the shelter?

If that is the case I would pass...move the car outside so the inevitable hail beats the snot out of it while the nader misses your house by mile or never materializes....

No Phil.
They are made to have a car above, and not interfere with entry/exit.
See my post above.

Whet
5/4/2011, 08:31 PM
I have a basement with a special room under the stairway. I keep a crowbar, saw, and 5 lb sledge hammer in there too. Also, a wired telephone (all our utilities are underground)

royalfan5
5/4/2011, 08:44 PM
Are basements just uncommon in Oklahoma?

C&CDean
5/4/2011, 09:08 PM
Are basements just uncommon in Oklahoma?

socali: Even more uncommon than a full set of teeth.../socali

Yeah, I'm on a roll.

bluedogok
5/4/2011, 09:28 PM
ICF? Or just regular concrete construction?
When I build my new house it will be an ICF house. I have done a commercial project with them and it turned out pretty nice.


Are basements just uncommon in Oklahoma?
Basements are a "northern thing". For the most part the only houses with basements were built in the 30's or earlier. The clay soil in many parts of the state make them more expensive to build, so most of the newer homes don't have them. The expansive soil and the drought or flood rain cycles are hard on them structurally. My great-grandfather lived in a house with one (Heritage Hills) and the walls were in a state of constant repair. We don't have them down here either, most of Central Texas is Karst Limestone so you are digging into rock and inch or two under the topsoil. There are more "walk out" basements only because of the hilly terrain.

We had started construction of the Catholic Youth Camp out near Luther when the May 3rd tornado hit. After that we changed the design of the cabins to incorporate a storm shelter, one of the restrooms was redesigned to act as one. It was done with filled CMU walls with rebar ties into the slab/foundation and the concrete cap with hurricane rated hollow metal doors. Every cabin has one of these rooms in it to accommodate the 20 campers.

Whet
5/4/2011, 09:36 PM
I would think if you over excavated the basement area and backfilled with gravel, using french drain, a builder could construct basements in clay soils. Heck, we have clay in the northern states, but houses have basement. I think it is more of builders not familiar with building basements, so they don't. Just slap a house on a cement slab.

bluedogok
5/4/2011, 09:41 PM
I would think if you over excavated the basement area and backfilled with gravel, using french drain, a builder could construct basements in clay soils. Heck, we have clay in the northern states, but houses have basement. I think it is more of builders not familiar with building basements, so they don't. Just slap a house on a cement slab.
That is the cheap and easy way to do it, which is the main reason why.

olevetonahill
5/4/2011, 10:09 PM
That is the cheap and easy way to do it, which is the main reason why.

That and theres not really a demand for one
Of all the houses I built in Elk City I built ONE with a basement and that was for myself.

Turd_Ferguson
5/4/2011, 10:34 PM
Houses in the North are built with basements because of the frost line.

soonercruiser
5/5/2011, 10:55 AM
I would think if you over excavated the basement area and backfilled with gravel, using french drain, a builder could construct basements in clay soils. Heck, we have clay in the northern states, but houses have basement. I think it is more of builders not familiar with building basements, so they don't. Just slap a house on a cement slab.

Yes, there is clay in the NE also.
But, not the same type of clay as TX and OK.
And, not the extremes of wet, dry periods and heat that destroys cinder block walls.

yermom
5/5/2011, 10:58 AM
Houses in the North are built with basements because of the frost line.

this is what i've always heard as well

even in Kansas they are more common it seems

Whet
5/5/2011, 11:07 AM
I don't understand the connection between frost line and basements. Not all houses here have basements, some are on slabs.

yermom
5/5/2011, 11:38 AM
the way i heard it was that they would put foundations below the frost line, so they would go ahead and put a basement in as well since they were already down there

The Profit
5/5/2011, 11:41 AM
I lived in Georgia, where there was plenty of red clay,and we had a basement that stayed dry. I think they don't build basements here (Oklahoma) because they don't see the demand for it. For storage, a basement is so much nicer than an attic. Also, with a basement, you can finish it out and nearly double your square footage. Also, if worse comes to worse and your mother in law has to move in with you, what better place for her than the basement?

Fraggle145
5/5/2011, 11:44 AM
So a professor in our department had one of these and he and his wife were down in it during the last tornado that went through over there by what used to be the country boy supermarket over on highway 9. The tornado took out their house, the storm shelter saved their lives. I think theirs had a sliding opening. The house didnt come down directly on top of it. But I am sure they had it registered with the FD.

Whet
5/5/2011, 12:00 PM
the way i heard it was that they would put foundations below the frost line, so they would go ahead and put a basement in as well since they were already down there

The frost line is about 36"-40" and a basement is about 7-8 feet.

yermom
5/5/2011, 12:11 PM
see, there's plenty of room

Ike
5/5/2011, 01:47 PM
I was always told that the lack of basements here had to do with a number of factors..

A) Not required to dig as far (frost line), so the extra digging for a basement costs more
B) High clay content plus large shifts in the water content of the clay (rainy springs and fall, dry summers), which can cause problems for the basement walls.
C) High water tables are prevalent in OK.

From what I've been told, if only one of those conditions were present, maybe even two, there would probably be a lot more basements. But because all 3 are factors, basements become pretty damn expensive.

Whet
5/5/2011, 03:05 PM
I was always told that the lack of basements here had to do with a number of factors..

A) Not required to dig as far (frost line), so the extra digging for a basement costs more
B) High clay content plus large shifts in the water content of the clay (rainy springs and fall, dry summers), which can cause problems for the basement walls.
C) High water tables are prevalent in OK.

From what I've been told, if only one of those conditions were present, maybe even two, there would probably be a lot more basements. But because all 3 are factors, basements become pretty damn expensive.


A - I would imagine most would pay extra to have a basement, if the builders knew how to construct them.

B - High clay content soils are not confined to the southern states, nor are the wet springs and dry summers. Builders in the northern states have overcome those issues to construct basements.

C - High water tables are present in most states (even in some places in AZ), including the northern states. There are a lot of cellars in OK.

It really comes down to the norms in the area for construction. For example, when you lived up here Ike, how many brick homes did you see? Compare those numbers with the brick homes in OK.

Plus, building a basement requires different structural engineering of the house, compared to slab building. Since they do not construct basements, they don't have the engineering experience that is needed (along with the architects designing the houses) - so they would be required to farm out the structural design/engineering to "custom" build a basement.

Turd_Ferguson
5/5/2011, 03:15 PM
Plus, building a basement requires different structural engineering of the house, compared to slab building. Since they do not construct basements, they don't have the engineering experience that is needed (along with the architects designing the houses) - so they would be required to farm out the structural design/engineering to "custom" build a basement.

Don't think so. There are still some builders that build homes on conventional floors(crall space). No different than a basement really. Any A&E firm in OKC is going to have knowledge of stem wall/pier design regardless if it's 18" deep or 10' deep.

Whet
5/5/2011, 03:26 PM
One would think so. ;)

There is no hydrogeologic/geologic reason for not building basements in OK.

C&CDean
5/5/2011, 03:32 PM
One would think so. ;)

There is no hydrogeologic/geologic reason for not building basements in OK.

I ain't buying it. I don't know of a single basement that I've seen in the Norman area that isn't either half-full of water or completely molded out from constant saturation. I even know a couple folks who's fraidy holes have actually started to "float."

IndySooner
5/5/2011, 03:33 PM
It really comes down to the norms in the area for construction. For example, when you lived up here Ike, how many brick homes did you see? Compare those numbers with the brick homes in OK.

This is a question we had when I was back home up north. I can't figure out why there isn't more brick construction? None of the new housing additions seem to be brick.

Turd_Ferguson
5/5/2011, 03:33 PM
One would think so. ;)

There is no hydrogeologic/geologic reason for not building basements in OK.Aww, but there is in Northern states.;)

Mississippi Sooner
5/5/2011, 03:34 PM
I ain't buying it. I don't know of a single basement that I've seen in the Norman area that isn't either half-full of water or completely molded out from constant saturation. I even know a couple folks who's fraidy holes have actually started to "float."

Yep. Back when we lived in Oklahoma we put in one of those pre-fab cellars. A couple years later the top of the thing was actually about 8 inches above the ground.

The Profit
5/5/2011, 03:43 PM
There are plenty of in-ground swimming pools (i.e. cement ponds). I would guess if they can be installed without cracking, so could a basement.

Whet
5/5/2011, 04:23 PM
Generally speaking, there are no geological or hydrogeolgical conditions that preclude construction of a basement. There will always be areas where water infiltration, or bedrock below the soil could be an issue. However, with the proper construction, including installation of appropriate drainage systems, basements can be constructed without major wall cracking and being half-filled with water. Even in the northern states, one normally uses a dehumidifier in the basement. Three of the 4 houses I lived in Tulsa had a basement! None of the basements were filled with water...

It's not like OK is some weird and mystical location where excavating will cause all sorts of strange things to happen.

When builders construct crappy houses, the homeowners will have problems with that house. The same applies to builders that attempt to construct a basement - crappy construction, crappy results.

Do any of the office buildings in OKC have floors below street level? Do these lower level floors have cracked walls, half-filled with water, or do they smell of mold?

stoopified
5/5/2011, 04:38 PM
I'd rather be claustrophobic than dead.

XFollower
5/5/2011, 04:39 PM
Check out Family Safe saferooms. The owner is a friend and he's been in business for quite sometime. His are the originals, that have now been reproduced by a lot of copy cats.

Turd_Ferguson
5/5/2011, 06:23 PM
The REASON houses in the NORTH have basements is because of the frost line. The REASON houses in the SOUTH don't have basements is because they don't need them. If you wanted one here in OK then I'm sure it could be done if your wanted the ADDED EXPENSE with the sump's and drainage system you'd have to put in. I'm quite sure there are lot's of houses in OK with full basements but again, they have the sump's and drainage to keep them dry.;)

Ike
5/5/2011, 06:27 PM
I ain't buying it. I don't know of a single basement that I've seen in the Norman area that isn't either half-full of water or completely molded out from constant saturation. I even know a couple folks who's fraidy holes have actually started to "float."

I actually know of one. But only one. It's in the house that my Grandfather built in the 50s. Of course, he was a civil engineer. He did the engineering for his own house. My folks still own it. Basement looks as good as it ever has.

sanantoniosooner
5/5/2011, 06:36 PM
There are plenty of in-ground swimming pools (i.e. cement ponds). I would guess if they can be installed without cracking, so could a basement.

faulty logic.

In ground pools are filled with water which cancels the buoyancy effect.

I've heard of pools that were emptied for any length of time rising or cracking.

Ike
5/5/2011, 06:44 PM
A - I would imagine most would pay extra to have a basement, if the builders knew how to construct them.

B - High clay content soils are not confined to the southern states, nor are the wet springs and dry summers. Builders in the northern states have overcome those issues to construct basements.

C - High water tables are present in most states (even in some places in AZ), including the northern states. There are a lot of cellars in OK.

It really comes down to the norms in the area for construction. For example, when you lived up here Ike, how many brick homes did you see? Compare those numbers with the brick homes in OK.

Plus, building a basement requires different structural engineering of the house, compared to slab building. Since they do not construct basements, they don't have the engineering experience that is needed (along with the architects designing the houses) - so they would be required to farm out the structural design/engineering to "custom" build a basement.


But they are the norms for construction for a reason. (There's actually another reason I forgot...land prices). Average house lots are much smaller up there. I could reach out my kitchen window and knock on my neighbors wall...But I digress. The norms differ not because there is a lack of expertise here, but rather a lack of demand. There's a lack of demand because it's damn expensive. Especially when compared to the average cost of a home. Also, regarding the clay content up there, please, if there is so much of it, get someone to go put some on the many baseball and softball fields there. There's nothing worse than the Chicago wind blowing the entire infield into your face while trying to bat. But I'll take you at your word...The key difference is that you don't get such dramatic swings in moisture content in the ground. A quick way to gauge that...how many people have to water their lawns on a regular basis out there? Hell, when I lived there, all it took to keep my grass green and purty was to make sure I never spilt a bucket of roundup.

Any one of those factors does not make a basement cost prohibitive, but when you add them all together, they make basements an unattractive option to most people. If they weren't so expensive, you better believe there would be a lot more of them.

sanantoniosooner
5/5/2011, 06:55 PM
My dad's house is underground with the exception of about 2/3 of the front wall. The whole thing is a storm shelter.

Whet
5/5/2011, 07:25 PM
The REASON houses in the NORTH have basements is because of the frost line.

Sorry Turd, the issue of the frost line, is not a reason we have basements here. As I stated earlier, the frost line here is 36"-40" (a little over a meter). A basement requires excavation down, at least, 12 feet (3 meters). If a basement is not included in the house plans, it can be added for about $10-15K. There are some houses, without basements around me.

I still believe it has to do more with traditional regional home building practices, rather than any technical or engineering issues. :)

soonerboomer93
5/5/2011, 09:11 PM
Sorry Turd, the issue of the frost line, is not a reason we have basements here. As I stated earlier, the frost line here is 36"-40" (a little over a meter). A basement requires excavation down, at least, 12 feet (3 meters). If a basement is not included in the house plans, it can be added for about $10-15K. There are some houses, without basements around me.

I still believe it has to do more with traditional regional home building practices, rather than any technical or engineering issues. :)

But if you have to put your slab down to at least 40" then you're ending up with around a 4ft thick slab of concrete. You have any idea how long that slab of concrete would take to cure and dry properly for construction on it?

I would imagine any house around you without a basement would be pier and beam and not slab foundation.

bluedogok
5/5/2011, 09:21 PM
The footings/stem wall go down that deep, the slab is still only 4-6 inches thick but most have insulation under the slab in addition to the vapor barrier. Down here we don't have to insulate under the slab and only certain soil conditions require footings instead of thickened edges at the perimeter of the slab.