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View Full Version : Hillarious Read, Pakistan - Ministry of Foreign Affairs 5/3/11 Press Release



cccasooner2
5/3/2011, 01:00 PM
http://www.mofa.gov.pk/Press_Releases/2011/May/PR_152.htm

Time for some popcorn.
:pop:

delhalew
5/3/2011, 01:07 PM
Lmao

Mississippi Sooner
5/3/2011, 01:15 PM
Holy crap, that was weak. A foreign military force came into your country, pulled off a mission and you didn't know anything about it until that force was out of the country. And the best you can do is say "This Won't Happen Again!"

Seriously, though, this is all claptrap put out there to placate the folks at home. They need us, probably now more than ever. The ones who matter know that very well.

dynersooner
5/3/2011, 01:23 PM
i thot this was a thread about the former senate majority leader.

i'll excuse myslef now.

i'm excused.

KantoSooner
5/3/2011, 02:08 PM
I have long wondered, in light of the unquestioned intelligence of people in Pakistan, how long they would consent as individuals and as a people to wallow in complete delusion and corruption.

CrimsonCream
5/3/2011, 03:25 PM
how long they would consent as individuals and as a people to wallow in complete delusion and corruption.

For awhile, I thought you were talking about the current United States Administration.

The Profit
5/3/2011, 03:32 PM
For awhile, I thought you were talking about the current United States Administration.




No, the current US administration killed the SOB known as Bin Laden. The former US administration (Bush) looked for him for 7.5 years without any real success.

delhalew
5/3/2011, 03:59 PM
No, the current US administration killed the SOB known as Bin Laden. The former US administration (Bush) looked for him for 7.5 years without any real success.

You get more moronic every day. It's fascinating.

The
5/3/2011, 04:05 PM
You get more moronic every day. It's fascinating.


Why? Because he's right?

Memtig14
5/3/2011, 04:05 PM
For awhile, I thought you were talking about the current United States Administration.

Good one!!!

:)

The Profit
5/3/2011, 04:05 PM
You get more moronic every day. It's fascinating.




Except I was right. Simple as that, Pancho.

Memtig14
5/3/2011, 04:07 PM
Except I was right. Simple as that, Pancho.

To some extent true, but according to new reports it is the intelligence gathered under the previous president's authorization (that was reviled by the current president) that allowed them to find this SOB.

pphilfran
5/3/2011, 04:09 PM
You're both wrong....the Seals, mission planners, and intel boys get the credit....

The
5/3/2011, 04:10 PM
You're both wrong....the Seals, mission planners, and intel boys get the credit....


That's like saying that bin Laden doesn't get the credit for 9/11.

Memtig14
5/3/2011, 04:11 PM
You're both wrong....the Seals, mission planners, and intel boys get the credit....

Hey, I'll go for that one.


Never forget our young men (& women) that go in harm's way for us every day.....give them the credit, not the old men (& women) that send them there.

sooner59
5/3/2011, 04:12 PM
Everybody gets credit.....and one of these:

http://images.edumart.com/zoom/T_11303_Participation.jpg

Memtig14
5/3/2011, 04:13 PM
Everybody gets credit.....and one of these:

http://images.edumart.com/zoom/T_11303_Participation.jpg

:)

Another good one!

Memtig14
5/3/2011, 04:14 PM
Does that make you a "Participationer"?

sooner59
5/3/2011, 04:17 PM
Does that make you a "Participationer"?

Yes. It is the little known conspiracy theory. :gary:

The Profit
5/3/2011, 04:19 PM
You're both wrong....the Seals, mission planners, and intel boys get the credit....



Had the mission failed, it would not have been the Navy Seals nor the mission planners, nor the CIA that would have carried the burden of the blame. It would have been Obama. Certainly, the heroic Seals deserve the most credit. Their very lives were at stake.

Our President knew the mission, knew the odds of it succeeding or failing and made the final decision. To not understand that he deserves credit, is to allow partisanship to overpower common sense. This was a mission that was truly accomplished, and not some bs costume party with a fancy banner. God Bless our President.

GrapevineSooner
5/3/2011, 04:25 PM
The hot lead that led to Bin Laden's location was discovered by an interrogator at Guantanamo using techniques instituted by the Bush Administration.

The decision to go into Pakistan with JSOC (whom Seymour Hersh and Keith Olberrmann once asserted reported directly to Dick Cheney) was made by the Obama Administration.

Those facts aren't mutually exclusive.

pphilfran
5/3/2011, 04:29 PM
That's like saying that bin Laden doesn't get the credit for 9/11.

Come on The...there is no doubt OBL was more hands on than Obama....

The
5/3/2011, 04:30 PM
Come on The...there is no doubt OBL was more hands on than Obama....


How so? He was in a hospital in Pakistan when it happened.

The Profit
5/3/2011, 04:30 PM
Come on The...there is no doubt OBL was more hands on than Obama....




Phil, how the hell do you know that? It does look to me like President Obama was more "hands on" than George W. Bush.

pphilfran
5/3/2011, 04:33 PM
Had the mission failed, it would not have been the Navy Seals nor the mission planners, nor the CIA that would have carried the burden of the blame. It would have been Obama. Certainly, the heroic Seals deserve the most credit. Their very lives were at stake.

Our President knew the mission, knew the odds of it succeeding or failing and made the final decision. To not understand that he deserves credit, is to allow partisanship to overpower common sense. This was a mission that was truly accomplished, and not some bs costume party with a fancy banner. God Bless our President.

Come on Profit...for 10 years we have been heading down a path with only one possible ending....Obama rightfully chose this path...it was a no brainer....a missile strike was out of the question...disintegrated bodies so that left only one choice....

He already has a hundred thou or so in harms way...lesser ranked men make life and death decisions on a daily basis when dealing with patrols and local insurgent raids...

He made the right call...but I ain't putting him on a f'n pedestal....

delhalew
5/3/2011, 04:34 PM
Everybody gets credit.....and one of these:

http://images.edumart.com/zoom/T_11303_Participation.jpg

Exactly. I don't know why some people are too stupid to remember this was ten years in the making.

Too many people worked too hard for you ****ing fools to pretend this was put together over the weekend.

Jammin'
5/3/2011, 04:34 PM
The hot lead that led to Bin Laden's location was discovered by an interrogator at Guantanamo using techniques instituted by the Bush Administration.
The decision to go into Pakistan with JSOC (whom Seymour Hersh and Keith Olberrmann once asserted reported directly to Dick Cheney) was made by the Obama Administration.

Those facts aren't mutually exclusive.

FYI: it has been reported that it was several months later, under normal interrogation techniques, that the so called "hot lead" was given.

The Profit
5/3/2011, 04:37 PM
Come on Profit...for 10 years we have been heading down a path with only one possible ending....Obama rightfully chose this path...it was a no brainer....a missile strike was out of the question...disintegrated bodies so that left only one choice....

He already has a hundred thou or so in harms way...lesser ranked men make life and death decisions on a daily basis when dealing with patrols and local insurgent raids...

He made the right call...but I ain't putting him on a f'n pedestal....





You don't have to. I'll join the millions of other Americans, who do it for you. Job well done, Mr. President.

delhalew
5/3/2011, 04:38 PM
Why? Because he's right?

For some reason I gave you more credit than that. My bad.

The Profit
5/3/2011, 04:39 PM
For some reason I gave you more credit than that. My bad.




I always knew there was a lot of smart to go along with his clever. I'm not surprised at all.

AlboSooner
5/3/2011, 04:40 PM
Torture is illegal under US laws. If using torture is a great idea then we need to torture child molesters, gang members, and so on.

I don't think there is enough clarity on how the intelligence was gathered, but even if it was made possible by torture, then it will be the exception to the rule that torture generally leads to bogus intelligence.


Pakistan is in deep trouble imo. The move by the US has forced them into a corner. They will either choose the West or the Islamic fundamentalism movement. The killing of UBL 100 yards from a Pakistani military compound has exposed their duplicity.

The Profit
5/3/2011, 04:44 PM
Torture is illegal under US laws. If using torture is a great idea then we need to torture child molesters, gang members, and so on.

I don't think there is enough clarity on how the intelligence was gathered, but even if it was made possible by torture, then it will be the exception to the rule that torture generally leads to bogus intelligence.


Pakistan is in deep trouble imo. The move by the US has forced them into a corner. They will either choose the West or the Islamic fundamentalism movement. The killing of UBL 100 yards from a Pakistani military compound has exposed their duplicity.




Great point regarding Pakistan. Another great point regarding torture. It is common knowledge that Abu Jandal, a trusted Bin Laden follower, never talked during torture, but did release valuable information when given sugar free cookies.

The
5/3/2011, 04:46 PM
For some reason I gave you more credit than that. My bad.


:texan:

delhalew
5/3/2011, 04:47 PM
I always knew there was a lot of smart to go along with his clever. I'm not surprised at all.

You got it. Never mind the brave men and women who sacrificed so much, or the intelligence community who were threatened with prosecution by Holder, or even the demon president from hell.

Obama is Chuck Norris and Rambo combined. Nay he is God.

The
5/3/2011, 04:48 PM
You got it. Never mind the brave men and women who sacrificed so much, or the intelligence community who were threatened with prosecution by Holder, or even the demon president from hell.

Obama is Chuck Norris and Rambo combined. Nay he is God.


You're off your meds again, friend.

The Profit
5/3/2011, 04:48 PM
You got it. Never mind the brave men and women who sacrificed so much, or the intelligence community who were threatened with prosecution by Holder, or even the demon president from hell.

Obama is Chuck Norris and Rambo combined. Nay he is God.



I knew you would come along....Glad to have you.

Sooner_Tuf
5/3/2011, 04:49 PM
No, the current US administration killed the SOB known as Bin Laden. The former US administration (Bush) looked for him for 7.5 years without any real success.

The United States Navy killed OBL. The United States Navy planned and executed this mission. If you think BHO had anything to do with that, well that is your right to fantasize.

I'm not going to get into which President can claim this on their resume but what exactly has BHO enacted that made this possible?

I'm not hating on anyone but the credit for this successful mission belongs 100% to the USN.

The Profit
5/3/2011, 04:51 PM
The United States Navy killed OBL. The United States Navy planned and executed this mission. If you think BHO had anything to do with that, well that is your right to fantasize.

I'm not going to get into which President can claim this on their resume but what exactly has BHO enacted that made this possible?

I'm not hating on anyone but the credit for this successful mission belongs 100% to the USN.





and its commander in chief....simple as that.

The
5/3/2011, 04:51 PM
The United States Navy killed OBL. The United States Navy planned and executed this mission. If you think BHO had anything to do with that, well that is your right to fantasize.

I'm not going to get into which President can claim this on their resume but what exactly has BHO enacted that made this possible?

I'm not hating on anyone but the credit for this successful mission belongs 100% to the USN.


While the obvious bias of your point can be overlooked, you obliviousness to fact cannot.

JSOC =/= US Navy. CIA=/= US Navy. NSA =/= US Navy. ad infintum.

delhalew
5/3/2011, 04:54 PM
I don't even have a dog in the who gets credit mess. I give ten years worth of Americans credit. You MFers have a sickness. Seriously. Years later in a time of celebration of a mission accomplished, I keep hearing Bush this Bush that.

We are so boned.

AlboSooner
5/3/2011, 04:56 PM
The United States Navy killed OBL. The United States Navy planned and executed this mission. If you think BHO had anything to do with that, well that is your right to fantasize.

I'm not going to get into which President can claim this on their resume but what exactly has BHO enacted that made this possible?

I'm not hating on anyone but the credit for this successful mission belongs 100% to the USN.

The mission had different parts, and people had different roles. Obviously the Seals deserve the credit for killing him and for being so brave. The CIA gathered the intelligence and planned it. They deserve credit. President Bush deserves credit for always pursuing him, keeping UBL on the run. President Obama deserves credit for re-focusing on UBL, and for deviating from previous policy by intervening even inside Pakistan, something which Bush didn't want to do because Musharraf was helping him.

This was a team effort. Obama will get a two-moth boost from this, then economy will be the main subject again.

The Profit
5/3/2011, 04:57 PM
I don't even have a dog in the who gets credit mess. I give ten heats worth of Americans credit. You MFers have a sickness. Seriously. Years later in a time of celebration of a mission accomplished, I keep hearing Bush this Bush that.

We are so boned.



You seem to be a very strange person. There are good and proven medications available to offset the desire to rant and rage. Until you can get your hands on some of them, chill dude....

The Profit
5/3/2011, 04:58 PM
The mission had different parts, and people had different roles. Obviously the Seals deserve the credit for killing him and for being so brave. The CIA gathered the intelligence and planned it. They deserve credit. President Bush deserves credit for always pursuing him, keeping UBL on the run. President Obama deserves credit for re-focusing on UBL, and for deviating from previous policy by intervening even inside Pakistan, something which Bush didn't want to do because Musharraf was helping him.

This was a team effort. Obama will get a two-moth boost from this, then economy will be the main subject again.




You are right on target today....great post.

delhalew
5/3/2011, 04:59 PM
You seem to be a very strange person. There are good and proven medications available to offset the desire to rant and rage. Until you can get your hands on some of them, chill dude....

Don't try to paint me with your brush of hate and ignorance. You wear it well.

okie52
5/3/2011, 05:00 PM
Certainly the Seals and the intelligence community deserve the lion's share of the credit, but BHO deserves his share of the credit too. His watch, his call. Going into a foreign country to take out OBL took some guts. Maybe any other president would have done the same but Obama actually did it.

So Kudos to him for that.

Now he is also going to get the "credit" for Libya...however that turns out.

Sooner_Tuf
5/3/2011, 05:00 PM
The mission had different parts, and people had different roles. Obviously the Seals deserve the credit for killing him and for being so brave. The CIA gathered the intelligence and planned it. They deserve credit. President Bush deserves credit for always pursuing him, keeping UBL on the run. President Obama deserves credit for re-focusing on UBL, and for deviating from previous policy by intervening even inside Pakistan, something which Bush didn't want to do because Musharraf was helping him.

This was a team effort. Obama will get a two-moth boost from this, then economy will be the main subject again.

You haven't a clue what you are talking about. I don't mean to be blunt but you have a spun a fantasy in your head.

Do you believe the CIA planned something for the Navy to execute? Do you really believe that?

delhalew
5/3/2011, 05:01 PM
The mission had different parts, and people had different roles. Obviously the Seals deserve the credit for killing him and for being so brave. The CIA gathered the intelligence and planned it. They deserve credit. President Bush deserves credit for always pursuing him, keeping UBL on the run. President Obama deserves credit for re-focusing on UBL, and for deviating from previous policy by intervening even inside Pakistan, something which Bush didn't want to do because Musharraf was helping him.

This was a team effort. Obama will get a two-moth boost from this, then economy will be the main subject again.

Spot on.

AlboSooner
5/3/2011, 05:01 PM
and its commander in chief....simple as that.

It took a lot of courage for Obama to order that mission. Something goes wrong, and people lose lives, and he is gone from office and remembered in infamy, kind of like Carter with the mess in Iran.

I think some people don't want to concede the point that Obama is not weak on the international front and terrorism front, despite the Drone program and daring mission deep inside Pakistan.

delhalew
5/3/2011, 05:03 PM
You haven't a clue what you are talking about. I don't mean to be blunt but you have a spun a fantasy in your head.

Do you believe the CIA planned something for the Navy to execute? Do you really believe that?

In his defense. The initial reports were that Seal Team 6 was on loan to the CIA, but yeah, I was under the impression it doesn't work that way.

AlboSooner
5/3/2011, 05:04 PM
You haven't a clue what you are talking about. I don't mean to be blunt but you have a spun a fantasy in your head.

Do you believe the CIA planned something for the Navy to execute? Do you really believe that?

I wasn't there. Wish I was though, but official story is that a team of CIA and Navy Seals who were very comfortable with each-other, and knew each other, worked together to plan and execute the plan. The Pentagon said: a CIA-led SEALs team....

President Bush did something really good by demolishing these barriers between agencies, and special forces and intelligence people. So yes I believe the CIA and SEALs planned it.

delhalew
5/3/2011, 05:06 PM
It took a lot of courage for Obama to order that mission. Something goes wrong, and people lose lives, and he is gone from office and remembered in infamy, kind of like Carter with the mess in Iran.

I think some people don't want to concede the point that Obama is not weak on the international front and terrorism front, despite the Drone program and daring mission deep inside Pakistan.

It took a lot of courage. This could have been his Bay of Pigs, or Iran Hostage cluster****. I am delighted to see our President make us look good.

The idea that the previous administration did nothing to contribute is so wrong, it is sad.

Sooner_Tuf
5/3/2011, 05:11 PM
While the obvious bias of your point can be overlooked, you obliviousness to fact cannot.

JSOC =/= US Navy. CIA=/= US Navy. NSA =/= US Navy. ad infintum.

Now there is a guy that never served in the US Armed Forces. As a retired Officer I have a bit of insight to how things function. But hey feel free to continue things out of your butt on the internet.

AlboSooner
5/3/2011, 05:14 PM
Thank you for your service Sooner Tuf. Obviously you know more about combat stuff than me, and I think things are done a bit different now, especially when talking about special forces, and units like that trying to catch the most lethal terrorist in US history.

KantoSooner
5/3/2011, 05:19 PM
You haven't a clue what you are talking about. I don't mean to be blunt but you have a spun a fantasy in your head.

Do you believe the CIA planned something for the Navy to execute? Do you really believe that?

Do you believe that the SEALS somehow, on their budget, operate a fleet of recon satellites, man listening posts around the world, run strings of informants and operatives in over 160 countries and overwise located Bin Laden, mapped his residence and set up the mission?

If not, then I suggest we compromise and agree that the SEALS planned the tactical side of the mission....with information gathered, developed and fact checked by CIA...and other agencies. And it is not likely that the SEALS were brought into the loop until the training phase started, if for no other reason than they could not bring squat to the party until that time.

To the same degree that you probably don't want an Urdu speaking Phd willing to sit and read intercepts for 10 years on the assault team, you probably also don't want a guy who's working out 8 hours a day in the job of torquing his mind trying to decide whether use of the honorific when a courier talks about 'our friend' is something of significance or if he's just wasted a week out of his life obcessing over a slip of the tongue.

GrapevineSooner
5/3/2011, 06:03 PM
FYI: it has been reported that it was several months later, under normal interrogation techniques, that the so called "hot lead" was given.

Fair enough.

And I'm not oblivious to how things work in politics. Obama was the President when this all went down, nothing was f***ed up in the mission, and he'll get a well deserved bounce from this.

As Texas Rangers manager Ron Washington would say, that's the way politics go and sometimes the day go yo way. ;)

And as somebody who isn't necessarily a fan of Obama, I'm fine with that. OBL's dead and countless people who were friends of or related to vicitms of the 9/11 attack and the subsequent wars can gain a measure of closure. That's what this is all about.

picasso
5/3/2011, 06:25 PM
No, the current US administration killed the SOB known as Bin Laden. The former US administration (Bush) looked for him for 7.5 years without any real success.

And Bush laid no groundwork whatsoever to find him now? Gitmo played no part in finding the courier that led us to him?
Ever wonder why Obama never made true on his promise to shut that place down?
BO deserves credit but don't be so blindly stupid to think Bush doesn't deserve some too.

Harry Beanbag
5/3/2011, 07:14 PM
I'll give Barack the extra credit in actually making the decision to send highly trained American killing machines in on the ground to shoot the ****er in the head when he could have chickened out like the first black president and fired missiles blindly into the neighborhood.

Other than that, this was the result of the combined efforts of hundreds of thousands of Americans, Brits, Australians, etc. over the last 9 1/2 years.

soonerscuba
5/3/2011, 07:15 PM
Wow, some of the hardcore members of a certain faction in this country sure do have poopy-pants about not being able to swiftboat Obama.

Sooner Tuf, thanks for your service but you are entirely off-base to the point of delusion if you think this was 100% USN.

soonerscuba
5/3/2011, 07:18 PM
Oh, and to the OP, **** Pakistan in the ****hole. They are not our friend and are a half-step away from Taliban with nukes. It is my faith that the current regime has a plan to get their weapons offshore when their zealots inevitably take control.

delhalew
5/3/2011, 07:22 PM
Wow, some of the hardcore members of a certain faction in this country sure do have poopy-pants about not being able to swiftboat Obama

This is what is bizarre. How are you getting that? If some you want to **** on everyone before BHO that put in work on this, people are going to be indignant.

soonerscuba
5/3/2011, 07:34 PM
This is what is bizarre. How are you getting that? If some you want to **** on everyone before BHO that put in work on this, people are going to be indignant.I didn't **** on Bush at all, I simply pointed out that Republicans have vested interest in pretending like Obama didn't act as C-in-C and give the order to covertly go into another nation (which was a campaign promise the same people grilled him for) and kill bin Laden because they have made hay for decades about Dems being weak.

For the record, if it was 2007 and Bush did this, I promise you Dems would find a way to downplay it.

picasso
5/3/2011, 07:38 PM
I'm not downplaying. I think it's awesome!

But, the dorks who are saying he got him and Bush didn't sound like some of my wife's girlfriends on Facebook. It's just dumb.
Let us not forget that Bushie got KSM, the mastermind behind the tall figurehead and the guy who pumped us full of the good info that some dorks on here said was probably just smoke.

delhalew
5/3/2011, 07:46 PM
I didn't **** on Bush at all, I simply pointed out that Republicans have vested interest in pretending like Obama didn't act as C-in-C and give the order to covertly go into another nation (which was a campaign promise the same people grilled him for) and kill bin Laden because they have made hay for decades about Dems being weak.

For the record, if it was 2007 and Bush did this, I promise you Dems would find a way to downplay it.

Yeah I didn't mean you personally. I omitted a word. I thought your post was a response to the arguments in this thread which stemmed from Profit 's bone headed post.

It makes me mad to find myself in a position were I feel the need to defend Bush, who I am not fond of. If the deranged sect of the left want to cut out that administration, they cut out everyone who worked within and for it. I'm not OK with that.

I don't see how it can be denied that Obama have the order. Even if its no secret that that is the first thing I think he has done right.

A Sooner in Texas
5/3/2011, 10:52 PM
Had the mission failed, it would not have been the Navy Seals nor the mission planners, nor the CIA that would have carried the burden of the blame. It would have been Obama. Certainly, the heroic Seals deserve the most credit. Their very lives were at stake.

Our President knew the mission, knew the odds of it succeeding or failing and made the final decision. To not understand that he deserves credit, is to allow partisanship to overpower common sense. This was a mission that was truly accomplished, and not some bs costume party with a fancy banner. God Bless our President.

Smart man, that Profit.

delhalew
5/3/2011, 11:11 PM
Smart man, that Profit.

For stating the obvious...

A Sooner in Texas
5/3/2011, 11:49 PM
For stating the obvious...

Which apparently isn't all that obvious to some.

Look, I'm no Bush fan, but he definitely gets his due for starting and maintaining the hunt for Osama and al-Qaida - just as Obama should get his due for making the right, tough call that finally got him. Our highest praise should go to the intelligence gatherers - some of who no doubt gave their lives in their mission - and to the SEALs who, thank God, succeeded without any loss of their lives.

Sooner_Tuf
5/4/2011, 12:53 AM
Sooner Tuf, thanks for your service but you are entirely off-base to the point of delusion if you think this was 100% USN.

You're right there were some taxpayers involved.

Sooner_Tuf
5/4/2011, 01:08 AM
Do you believe that the SEALS somehow, on their budget, operate a fleet of recon satellites, man listening posts around the world, run strings of informants and operatives in over 160 countries and overwise located Bin Laden, mapped his residence and set up the mission?

Yeah, why don't you tell me all about their budget. I don't know how that works.

Absolutely things like this are based on Intel. Intel from many, many sources. If you think the CIA or any other Federal Agency opens up their book to any other Federal Agency you're nuts. The CIA's power is that they have some info they hope nobody else does. And they frequently treat it as their first born.

Etienne Oehmichen flew the first helicopter in 1924, he deserves some credit. Hell if OBL hadn't been a turd this wouldn't have happened. I guess he was a pretty important component himself.

If you are talking in abstract terms just about every American that has ever filed a 1040 is a part of this successful mission.

The fact is the men on those helos are the ones that accomplished this. Nobody else.

The Profit
5/4/2011, 08:15 AM
I'm not downplaying. I think it's awesome!

But, the dorks who are saying he got him and Bush didn't sound like some of my wife's girlfriends on Facebook. It's just dumb.
Let us not forget that Bushie got KSM, the mastermind behind the tall figurehead and the guy who pumped us full of the good info that some dorks on here said was probably just smoke.




I have no doubt that the intensity of effort, demonstrated by the Bush administration during its search for Bin Laden, played a key role in finally bringing the murderous piece of trash to his watery grave.

Remember, though, that our President's tremendous judgement was not only demonstrated by his decision to keep his promise and cross into Pakistan, if necessary, to kill Bin Laden. He could have easily ordered up a massive missile strike that would have obliterated the compound. Doing so would have been a much safer choice. Instead, he chose the option that would give us the body of Bin Laden, spare the lives of innocents and allow us to have access to the droves of information that were found in the house. That is damn good decision making.

pphilfran
5/4/2011, 08:19 AM
I have no doubt that the intensity of effort, demonstrated by the Bush administration during its search for Bin Laden, played a key role in finally bringing the murderous piece of trash to his watery grave.

Remember, though, that our President's tremendous judgement was not only demonstrated by his decision to keep his promise and cross into Pakistan, if necessary, to kill Bin Laden. He could have easily ordered up a massive missile strike that would have obliterated the compound. Doing so would have been a much safer choice. Instead, he chose the option that would give us the body of Bin Laden, spare the lives of innocents and allow us to have access to the droves of information that were found in the house. That is damn good decision making.

In actuality it was the only correct decision...

The Profit
5/4/2011, 08:24 AM
In actuality it was the only correct decision...



Yet, according to reports, it was not the only option.

delhalew
5/4/2011, 08:30 AM
In actuality it was the only correct decision...

But a major dilemma for Brack. After all, he is not accustomed to showing courage and strength, of acting in a decisive manner. Therefore, he needs extra credit.

I'm willing to give it to him, if he'll keep it up.

sappstuf
5/4/2011, 08:32 AM
Presidents are like QBs.. They get too much credit when things go right and too much blame when things go bad.

pphilfran
5/4/2011, 08:54 AM
Yet, according to reports, it was not the only option.

Be logical...think it out...

I imagine that Obama hoped and dreamed of a chance to take the guy out...

He knew the day could be coming when he would need to make the decision, and by his past actions he would definitely put his stamp of approval on a mission......

Intel said there was a 60-80% chance the OBL was holed up in the house...

He now had three choices...

Do nothing...wasn't going to happen....if word leaked out, and it would, that he decided against action he would be crucified by the media and the public...

Bomb or missile attach.....wasn't going to happen...safe with smaller chance of lost US lives...bigger risk of collateral damage... criticism if the mission failed and civi lives were lost...there was a good chance that it would not be possible to id him...and what we know now about him living on the top floor there wouldn't be enough left of him to fill a matchbox...and they sure as hell weren't going to call a strike and not have proof of a kill...

Lastly, the method that was used...riskier to US troops...criticism if US lives were lost and the mission failed...less collateral damage (not that I would have let this carry much weight)...proof positive if the mission was a success...

The path was set in stone...blow smoke up other peoples butt...there was only one option that accomplished the goal completely...his decision was no more difficult than what commanders on the battlefields of Iraq or Afghanistan do on a daily basis...put lives at risk...

Like I have said before...Obama did good...just not putting him on a pedestal for making a decision that was in actuality not much of a decision due to the limited choices and his past actions....

The Profit
5/4/2011, 09:09 AM
Be logical...think it out...

I imagine that Obama hoped and dreamed of a chance to take the guy out...

He knew the day could be coming when he would need to make the decision, and by his past actions he would definitely put his stamp of approval on a mission......

Intel said there was a 60-80% chance the OBL was holed up in the house...

He now had three choices...

Do nothing...wasn't going to happen....if word leaked out, and it would, that he decided against action he would be crucified by the media and the public...

Bomb or missile attach.....wasn't going to happen...safe with smaller chance of lost US lives...bigger risk of collateral damage... criticism if the mission failed and civi lives were lost...there was a good chance that it would not be possible to id him...and what we know now about him living on the top floor there wouldn't be enough left of him to fill a matchbox...and they sure as hell weren't going to call a strike and not have proof of a kill...

Lastly, the method that was used...riskier to US troops...criticism if US lives were lost and the mission failed...less collateral damage (not that I would have let this carry much weight)...proof positive if the mission was a success...

The path was set in stone...blow smoke up other peoples butt...there was only one option that accomplished the goal completely...his decision was no more difficult than what commanders on the battlefields of Iraq or Afghanistan do on a daily basis...put lives at risk...

Like I have said before...Obama did good...just not putting him on a pedestal for making a decision that was in actuality not much of a decision due to the limited choices and his past actions....




My friend Phil, your final sentence clearly telegraphs your prejudice.

Just answer these simple questions. Who would have been the recipient of the blame if this mission would have failed? Who would have received the condemnation if all of the choppers would have crashed or been shot down? Who would have been the butt of jokes if this risky maneuver would have resulted only in frightening 10 or 20 innocent civilians? I'll hang up now and listen to your reply.

pphilfran
5/4/2011, 09:18 AM
My friend Phil, your final sentence clearly telegraphs your prejudice.

Just answer these simple questions. Who would have been the recipient of the blame if this mission would have failed? Who would have received the condemnation if all of the choppers would have crashed or been shot down? Who would have been the butt of jokes if this risky maneuver would have resulted only in frightening 10 or 20 innocent civilians? I'll hang up now and listen to your reply.

Profit...the same could be said of any of his choices...

His head would have been put in a noose if he had done nothing...

His head would have been put in a noose if he had bombed the compound and came up snake eyes...civi's killed and no body to show...

His head would have been put in a noose if the chosen mission had failed with loss of life...

There were similar political risks with each choice...the chosen path put service men a risk...but hell, he already has 100k in risk every day...every day service men are sent on risky missions that might require sacrifice...

I hope to hell Obama found it really f'n difficult putting the Seal's lives at stake...might make him think twice about putting other troops at risk in the future...

Like I said...he did good...though the correct path of action was nearly set in stone...

KantoSooner
5/4/2011, 09:20 AM
Yeah, why don't you tell me all about their budget. I don't know how that works.

Absolutely things like this are based on Intel. Intel from many, many sources. If you think the CIA or any other Federal Agency opens up their book to any other Federal Agency you're nuts. The CIA's power is that they have some info they hope nobody else does. And they frequently treat it as their first born.

Etienne Oehmichen flew the first helicopter in 1924, he deserves some credit. Hell if OBL hadn't been a turd this wouldn't have happened. I guess he was a pretty important component himself.

If you are talking in abstract terms just about every American that has ever filed a 1040 is a part of this successful mission.

The fact is the men on those helos are the ones that accomplished this. Nobody else.

I can deify the SEALS all day long. The facts are that without the involvement of other agencies, they would have had NO mission as they would not have known where to go. It's also clear that the SEALS have been working, seconded to CIA, on many missions, for several years. (Wall Street Journal, May 3, 2011. Sorry, you'll have to find the page reference yourself. Maybe your in-house intel op can lend a hand.)

Secondly, it is blindingly clear that the SEALS, while the assault team, were not alone. There were other folks outside the walls. This was tacitly confirmed by a retired SEAL commander interviewed yesterday morning. Whoever those folks were (CIA? Other SEALS? Other Special Forces?) were not on the helos leaving.

You seem to have a fixation with giving the credit to the SEALS and ONLY the SEALS. What's up with that? The one ex-SEAL with whom I worked (in sales, don't get all excited) and the two ex-Green Berets had no trouble at all sharing credit with non-special operations folks and, for that matter, non-military when warranted. In fact, one characteristic of all three was their commitment to the team and to teamwork.

However, if you wish to persist in the belief that somehow a team of guys lifted out of Socal without any assistance and dropped out of the sky into Pakistan, I suppose there is very little I can do to disuade you. Enjoy your version of reality.

pphilfran
5/4/2011, 09:25 AM
Good post, Kanto...

okie52
5/4/2011, 09:25 AM
I thought I heard on the news that the seals had helmet cams on and Obama, Hillary, Biden, et al were watching the event live. Saw the concerned look on Hillary's face while watching.

Supposedly they didn't see Osama taken out but these stories change on a daily basis. I can't think of anything more intense than watching the seals in action on this raid.

pphilfran
5/4/2011, 09:26 AM
I thought I heard on the news that the seals had helmet cams on and Obama, Hillary, Biden, et al were watching the event live. Saw the concerned look on Hillary's face while watching.

Supposedly they didn't see Osama taken out but these stories change on a daily basis. I can't think of anything more intense than watching the seals in action on this raid.

I can't even imagine...pucker power would be high....

okie52
5/4/2011, 09:29 AM
I can't even imagine...pucker power would be high....

I'm pretty sure I would have been drinking.

pphilfran
5/4/2011, 09:34 AM
I'm pretty sure I would have been drinking.

No chit...you know that had to have had a live feed...

I am surprised they aren't looking at television rights to live feeds with profits going to balance the budget...

cccasooner2
5/4/2011, 09:34 AM
Don't want to create a new thread. Is this an effin joke?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_bin_laden_geronimo


Geronimo is somehow now associated with OBL in a non-PC way, sheet?

okie52
5/4/2011, 09:37 AM
No chit...you know that had to have had a live feed...

I am surprised they aren't looking at television rights to live feeds with profits going to balance the budget...

LOL...He11, I'd be happy if the profits just went to the Seals.

What's the deal about releasing Bin Ladens death pic...seems like I am already seeing that pic around the internet (although I don't know if it is fake).

The Profit
5/4/2011, 09:43 AM
LOL...He11, I'd be happy if the profits just went to the Seals.

What's the deal about releasing Bin Ladens death pic...seems like I am already seeing that pic around the internet (although I don't know if it is fake).




They had better release the photo. Without the photo, many in the Muslim world will never accept the fact that the SOB is dead.

okie52
5/4/2011, 09:44 AM
Don't want to create a new thread. Is this an effin joke?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_bin_laden_geronimo


Geronimo is somehow now associated with OBL in a non-PC way, sheet?


Steven Newcomb, a columnist for the weekly newspaper Indian Country Today, criticized what he called a disrespectful use of a name revered by many Native Americans.

"Apparently, having an African-American president in the White House is not enough to overturn the more than 200-year American tradition of treating and thinking of Indians as enemies of the United States," Newcomb wrote.

After bin Laden was killed, the military sent a message back to the White House: "Geronimo EKIA" — enemy killed in action.

"It's another attempt to label Native Americans as terrorists," said Paula Antoine of the Rosebud Sioux Tribe in South Dakota.

Oh, Lord. These nutcases are embarrassing to most Native Americans.


Bring back Lil Red!!!!!!

okie52
5/4/2011, 09:45 AM
They had better release the photo. Without the photo, many in the Muslim world will never accept the fact that the SOB is dead.

I've got Grandkids posting bin laden's death pic on FB...I just don't know if it is real. He looks brain damaged enough to be real.

The Profit
5/4/2011, 09:47 AM
I've got Grandkids posting bin laden's death pic on FB...I just don't know if it is real. He looks brain damaged enough to be real.



No, its not real. Tell them to be careful. Most of those fake pics have viruses attached to them. The real picture actually shows the top of his head blown off (blood, brain matter, etc.).

okie52
5/4/2011, 09:54 AM
No, its not real. Tell them to be careful. Most of those fake pics have viruses attached to them. The real picture actually shows the top of his head blown off (blood, brain matter, etc.).

Too late for them.

Yeah, I think the pic should be released, too, along with Bin Laden's birth Certificate.

delhalew
5/4/2011, 09:56 AM
No chit...you know that had to have had a live feed...

I am surprised they aren't looking at television rights to live feeds with profits going to balance the budget...

We'll never see it, but I've heard multiple times about the video of the operation.

Sooner98
5/4/2011, 10:04 AM
Had the mission failed, it would not have been the Navy Seals nor the mission planners, nor the CIA that would have carried the burden of the blame. It would have been Obama.

And if this had been done under Bush, tens of thousands of loyal partisan hacks (like you, for example) would have feigned enough liberal outrage to make your head spin. You would have accused him of being a war criminal for attacking a group of people inside the borders of a sovereign country, and illegally assassinating Bin Laden when he was unarmed and posing no threat to anyone, rather than simply capturing him and putting him on trial. You would have immediately called for his impeachment, along with the arrest of Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, etc, etc. You would have been equally outraged by the fact that waterboarding KSM lead to the intel that eventually lead to this atrocity. Liberal nutjobs from coast to coast would have thrown demonstrations in the streets, hanging Bush in effigy, with posters comparing him to Hitler, blah blah blah. It is so predictable it is sad.

The Profit
5/4/2011, 10:17 AM
And if this had been done under Bush, tens of thousands of loyal partisan hacks (like you, for example) would have feigned enough liberal outrage to make your head spin. You would have accused him of being a war criminal for attacking a group of people inside the borders of a sovereign country, and illegally assassinating Bin Laden when he was unarmed and posing no threat to anyone, rather than simply capturing him and putting him on trial. You would have immediately called for his impeachment, along with the arrest of Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, etc, etc. You would have been equally outraged by the fact that waterboarding KSM lead to the intel that eventually lead to this atrocity. Liberal nutjobs from coast to coast would have thrown demonstrations in the streets, hanging Bush in effigy, with posters comparing him to Hitler, blah blah blah. It is so predictable it is sad.




And you would be wrong, but you seem to punctuate and spell correctly. Look, I gave Bush credit, which is much more than many posters here are willing to do for our dear President.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
5/4/2011, 12:57 PM
And you would be wrong, but you seem to punctuate and spell correctly. Look, I gave Bush credit, which is much more than many posters here are willing to do for our dear President.you would wonder if he's seen the PI analysis of the event?http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/dont-wo...inglepage=true

Ike
5/4/2011, 01:54 PM
All the bickering over who did what and who deserves what amount of credit makes me sad in my pants.

A great thing happened. IMO, it should have happened years ago, but the past is the past, and there's nothing to be done about that now. I'm simply glad it happened at all.

If this is how we treat great events in this country, we are boned.

sappstuf
5/4/2011, 02:15 PM
I thought I heard on the news that the seals had helmet cams on and Obama, Hillary, Biden, et al were watching the event live. Saw the concerned look on Hillary's face while watching.

Supposedly they didn't see Osama taken out but these stories change on a daily basis. I can't think of anything more intense than watching the seals in action on this raid.

http://images.mirror.co.uk/upl/dailyrecord3/may2011/8/5/president-barack-obama-watches-raid-on-osama-bin-laden-compound-945738233.jpg

Try to see what is on the picture in front of Hillary. Judging by her reaction, I thought it might be Bill breaking in the new intern....

sappstuf
5/4/2011, 02:18 PM
Oh, Lord. These nutcases are embarrassing to most Native Americans.


Bring back Lil Red!!!!!!

The Rosebud tribe???

The Profit
5/4/2011, 02:23 PM
Too late for them.

Yeah, I think the pic should be released, too, along with Bin Laden's birth Certificate.




Short or long form? And screw Little Red. He didn't even dress like a real Kiowa.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
5/4/2011, 02:29 PM
http://images.mirror.co.uk/upl/dailyrecord3/may2011/8/5/president-barack-obama-watches-raid-on-osama-bin-laden-compound-945738233.jpg

Try to see what is on the picture in front of Hillary. Judging by her reaction, I thought it might be Bill breaking in the new intern....Comedy Award for 5-4-11! Astute political observation.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
5/4/2011, 02:30 PM
screw Little Red. Man, are you ever a Sooner fave!!!

The Profit
5/4/2011, 02:32 PM
Man, are you ever a Sooner fave!!!




The "Little Red" comment is a innocent back-and-forth Okie and I have been enjoying for a few years.

sappstuf
5/4/2011, 02:38 PM
And you would be wrong, but you seem to punctuate and spell correctly. Look, I gave Bush credit, which is much more than many posters here are willing to do for our dear President.

It was a job well done all around in finding and killing Osama.

One thing I don't understand, is if we got "troves" of information off of his computers and hard drives and such, why not wait a couple of weeks to announce killing him to run that information down?

I would have much rather had used that information to hopefully completely destroy Al-qaede, rather than just the figure head.

I think the announcement was premature.

The Profit
5/4/2011, 02:43 PM
It was a job well done all around in finding and killing Osama.

One thing I don't understand, is if we got "troves" of information off of his computers and hard drives and such, why not wait a couple of weeks to announce killing him to run that information down?

I would have much rather had used that information to hopefully completely destroy Al-qaede, rather than just the figure head.

I think the announcement was premature.




That's a great question. I heard on BBC News today that waiting a few days to announce the death of the POS would have been preferred, but that no one trusted the Pakistani government to keep it secret. According to the news report, an appeal has been made to anyone and everyone, with a high-security clearance with Arab speaking ability, for help in translating the material. The report said it would be weeks and maybe months before everything is analyzed.

sappstuf
5/4/2011, 02:54 PM
That's a great question. I heard on BBC News today that waiting a few days to announce the death of the POS would have been preferred, but that no one trusted the Pakistani government to keep it secret. According to the news report, an appeal has been made to anyone and everyone, with a high-security clearance with Arab speaking ability, for help in translating the material. The report said it would be weeks and maybe months before everything is analyzed.

I understand that you could never analyze everything before it broke, but I still think you take the last 5-10 numbers on his cell phone or last files accessed on his computer and direct as much intelligence firepower as possible to crack and hopefully get lucky in less than 24 hours. Then throw a couple of Tomahawks at Crazy Horse, Sitting Bull, or whatever names for high value targets they might get lucky to run across.

okie52
5/4/2011, 03:03 PM
The Rosebud tribe???

Yeah, never heard of them although they sound fierce.

The Profit
5/4/2011, 03:05 PM
I understand that you could never analyze everything before it broke, but I still think you take the last 5-10 numbers on his cell phone or last files accessed on his computer and direct as much intelligence firepower as possible to crack and hopefully get lucky in less than 24 hours. Then throw a couple of Tomahawks at Crazy Horse, Sitting Bull, or whatever names for high value targets they might get lucky to run across.




Not a bad strategy. In the case of anyone other than Bin Laden, we really don't need to have an identifiable body.

sappstuf
5/4/2011, 03:09 PM
Yeah, never heard of them although they sound fierce.

The Rosebuds sound like a bunch of A-holes to me... ;)

okie52
5/4/2011, 03:18 PM
The Rosebuds sound like a bunch of A-holes to me... ;)

I think I heard some Apache leader at Ft Sill was complaining. They were always uncivilized.

KantoSooner
5/4/2011, 03:56 PM
With the number of Indians who are serving and serving well in the armed forces, I'm prepared to put up with some jack wagons.

I got to meet the lady who organized the pow wows in Iraq. What a psy-ops coup! Think that didn't freak the Iraqis out?

usmc-sooner
5/4/2011, 06:18 PM
I think Bush and Obama deserve credit for this capture.

heck even Clinton got him, but he let him go free

sappstuf
5/4/2011, 09:03 PM
A closer look at Obama during the raid...


http://pumapac.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/obama-proof2.jpg