i had no idea some of you guys were so progressive.

[yermom]

remember that McDonald's beating? still think it's a hate crime?

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2011/04/23/mcdonalds-in-md-to-probe-response-to-beating/

:pop:

[homerSimpsonsBrain]

This should be interesting.

:pop:

[SoonerNate]

Throw the book at them. Why are these black girls so hateful of transgendered folks?

Take that Sharpton!

[47straight]

remember that McDonald's beating? still think it's a hate crime?

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2011/04/23/mcdonalds-in-md-to-probe-response-to-beating/

:pop:


I can only imagine dailykos/huffingtonpost's head about to explode.

[mgsooner]

pathetic humans

[Ardmore_Sooner]

pathetic humans

Man you really don't like transgender folk do you? ;)

[olevetonahill]

remember that McDonald's beating? still think it's a hate crime?

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2011/04/23/mcdonalds-in-md-to-probe-response-to-beating/

:pop:

I still say that if that was 2 white chicks stomping a Black dude/dudette in front of a bunch of White employees , It would be classified as such.
Peeps can say what they want But thats just fact:pop:

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Not condoning the beating, but everyone should have equal protection under the law. His/her/its sexual or racial identity shouldn't play a factor in charging/sentencing the perps.

[yermom]

It's McD's fault for not having a tranny bathroom

[Blue]

It's McD's fault for not having a tranny bathroom

Give em a couple years.

[Curly Bill]

Not condoning the beating, but everyone should have equal protection under the law. His/her/its sexual or racial identity shouldn't play a factor in charging/sentencing the perps.

This is true.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

I hate the term "hate crime" I mean **** if I beat up a black guy, it is a hate crime. If I beat the **** out of a white guy, it is just assault and battery but there was no hate in me. If you beat the **** out of someone regardless....it should be a hate crime, I mean is there a such thing as a "Love Crime"

[Sooner in Tampa]

Hmmmm...so what yermon is trying to say is: the end justifies the means???

Interesting

[Whet]

It's McD's fault for not having a tranny bathroom

That is the 3rd bathroom a lot of places have, called "family bathrooms"

[yermom]

Hmmmm...so what yermon is trying to say is: the end justifies the means???

Interesting

?

Yermom was wondering how the other thread would have gone if the outraged posters would have known that the two women of color were beating up a white tranny for going into the women's bathroom.

[OutlandTrophy]

I can only imagine dailykos/huffingtonpost's head about to explode.

this

and


Not condoning the beating, but everyone should have equal protection under the law. His/her/its sexual or racial identity shouldn't play a factor in charging/sentencing the perps.

I cannot believe some of the enlightened folks on here think this beating was OK because the white person was looking at one of the other girl's boyfriend.


She said the violence kicked off after she had used the ladies restrooms in the McDonald's outlet, but denied reports that this was the reason why the violence erupted.
She said of her attackers: 'They just seemed like they wanted to pick a fight that night.'
She said she was approached by one of the girls, who accused her of 'looking at my man'.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1379691/Transgender-girl-beaten-seizure-McDonalds-attack-victim-hate-crime.html#ixzz1KXs0ZlmV

[yermom]

who said the beating was okay?

[Sooner in Tampa]

?

Yermom was wondering how the other thread would have gone if the outraged posters would have known that the two women of color were beating up a white tranny for going into the women's bathroom.
Who knows...but I think it pretty much would have been the same since the orignal thread addressed the racial issue of two black dumbasses beating up one white dumbass...the double standard is evident.

The point of the original thread was...IF this was two white folks beating the crap outta one black folk (tranny or not) Sharpton and Jackson would be all over the tube screaming about the horrible injustice...so it was pointing out the double standard

[The]

It's hard being a white guy these days.

[C&CDean]

It's hard being a white guy these days.

How would you know?

[The]

How would you know?

I watch Seinfield.

[Mongo]

I dont care if it was trangender or wtf ever. there is no excuse for it to lose a fight with women still having a hog on him. have a little bit of pride

[olevetonahill]

I dont care if it was trangender or wtf ever. there is no excuse for it to lose a fight with women still having a hog on him. have a little bit of pride

Not sure but i think he had it cut off. :eek:

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

It takes a real man to get your dick cut off... ;)

[olevetonahill]

It takes a real man to get your dick cut off... ;)

Yea it takes a real man and turns him into a weird mother ****er;)

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Still a hate crime, regardless of "gender". I still say those bitches need to die, even if one is 14.

Spit in face and claim you're looking at one's BF? WTF?

IBTL.

[yermom]

Who knows...but I think it pretty much would have been the same since the orignal thread addressed the racial issue of two black dumbasses beating up one white dumbass...the double standard is evident.

The point of the original thread was...IF this was two white folks beating the crap outta one black folk (tranny or not) Sharpton and Jackson would be all over the tube screaming about the horrible injustice...so it was pointing out the double standard

i'm glad trannies have this forum's full support as humans. that's all i'm saying.

i mean, i am making fun, but damn. that's not a position i'd want to be in.

[NormanPride]

Does anyone WANT to be a tranny?

[SoonerNate]

The true question to ask is if he/she/it wasn't transgendered, would they still be looking at a hate crime?

I say negative.

[Sooner in Tampa]

i'm glad trannies have this forum's full support as humans. that's all i'm saying.

i mean, i am making fun, but damn. that's not a position i'd want to be in.

TRANNIES are people too :P

[Wishboned]

Apparently the one girl has made it a habit to assault people at that McDonald's. I guess in her mind McDonald's slogan is "You Deserve a Beat Down Today."

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/mcdonalds-attacker-prior-bust-908732



APRIL 25--The Baltimore teenager charged last week with the brutal beating of a McDonald’s patron was arrested last year for assaulting a woman following a dispute in the same restaurant, The Smoking Gun has learned.

Teonna Monae Brown, 18, was charged with two assault counts for allegedly attacking Danielle Dower, 38, last July. In October, a Baltimore County judge ruled that charges would not be further pursued against Brown, according to court records, which do not further explain that “nolle prosequi” decision.

[Update: Baltimore County State's Attorney Scott Shellenberger told TSG that the criminal counts against Brown were dropped at the victim’s request.]

In a handwritten police statement, Dower said that she had left the McDonald’s with her two daughters when Brown confronted her, asking “Did you call me ugly?” Though Dower said she had not, Brown “kept trying to badger us.” At one point, Dower said, the teenager “pushed me in the back.” After Dower pushed back, Brown “took her fist and threw a punch to my face.”

As the pair scuffled, Dower said, Brown hit her in the back with an umbrella and “pulled my wig off my head.”

Saying that, “I wanted to get my kids to safety,” Dower went with her children to a nearby shopping center. Brown and her friends, Dower added, followed behind.

As Dower called 911, two females grabbed her daughter by the hair and dragged the teenage girl across the floor. “I had to stop talking to the operator, get on top of my daughter and protect her while trying to fight off those girls,” Dower stated.

The fight, she added, left her with “a few cuts to my face” and “my head was hurt from the hair pulling and my leg got hurt. My oldest daughter head was hurting from the girls dragging her across the floor. She suffered cuts to her knee and one to her face, bumps to her forhead and behind her ear.”

Brown was hit with a pair of misdemeanor assault charges, according to a July 28 statement of charges filed in District Court. However, an October 21 filing shows that Judge Norman R. Stone issued a “nolle prosequi” finding with regard to the two counts

[KABOOKIE]

Teonna Monae Brown, heh.

[Mongo]

i'm glad trannies have this forum's full support as humans. that's all i'm saying.

i think alot here has supported your lifestyle for a while

[yermom]

:mad:

[champions77]

I hate the term "hate crime" I mean **** if I beat up a black guy, it is a hate crime. If I beat the **** out of a white guy, it is just assault and battery but there was no hate in me. If you beat the **** out of someone regardless....it should be a hate crime, I mean is there a such thing as a "Love Crime"

+1 This is just part and parcel of the ridiculous psycho babble bs the American "Left" has perpetuated on the American people the last 40-50 years. Also is an excellent example of the "double standards" that exist today in the media. I would venture to say that black on white attacks exists much more than white on blacks do. But for some reason, black on white is "tolerated" more. Is it because my great, great great grandfather might have owned a slave?

This will get very little play with the media, but more than if the victim was not a "transgendered" individual.

[Jammin']

I still say that if that was 2 white chicks stomping a Black dude/dudette in front of a bunch of White employees , It would be classified as such.
Peeps can say what they want But thats just fact:pop:

Well, no, it's not a fact, it's still just your opinion. But you are entitled to it.

IMO: The judge should make those black "ladies" work at McDonalds as penalty.

[soonercruiser]

It's McD's fault for not having a tranny bathroom

If you want a "tranny" bathroom; go to a transmission shop!
:D

[Chuck Bao]

+1 This is just part and parcel of the ridiculous psycho babble bs the American "Left" has perpetuated on the American people the last 40-50 years. Also is an excellent example of the "double standards" that exist today in the media. I would venture to day that black on white attacks exists much more than white on blacks do. But for some reason, black on white is "tolerated" more. Is it because my great, great great grandfather might have owned a slave?

This will get very little play with the media, but more than if the victim was not a "transgendered" individual.

Disagree. If Gandalf_The_Grey is indiscriminately beating up or killing black men just because they are black and he has the intended and premeditated purpose of causing fear and driving black people out of the community, then it is a hate crime and should be charged as such.

If the black dude insulted his girlfriend/wife/child or threatened them in any way, then it wouldn't be a hate crime. I just can't imagine Gandalf_The_Grey doing the former but would definitely understand and come to his defense in the latter.

Likewise, if a white dude is beaten or killed just because he is white and the intended purpose is promoting fear among the whites and driving white people out of a predominately black neighborhood, then it is also a hate crime.

The problem here is not the law or the intent of the law or application of the law. It is the words "predominately" and "the fact that many black neighborhoods are in the inner cities where crime is much more rampant against blacks, whites, hispanics, asians...well everybody." and, thereby much more difficult to prove in a court of law about the intent.

Gays/lesbians/trannies probably face prejudice and hatred and threat of indiscriminate violence almost anywhere. Okay that is outside some gay ghettos in the big cities, such as the Oaklawn area of Dallas. Are you okay with someone beating up a queer just because they don't want to see their kind around or anger that the queue in the women's bathroom is just too long even without the trannies in it, like apparently these black women did? Should they be charged with assault or disturbing the peace citations?

I wrote all of this drivel because I think some of you are unnecessarily getting your panties in a twist because of some perceived discrimination against white folk. But it is really all about discrimination and violence in the very worst sense. Alright, go ahead and feel butt hurt about it. I highly doubt this or anyone's post will change your mind.

[The]

Disagree. If Gandalf_The_Grey is indiscriminately beating up or killing black men just because they are black and he has the intended and premeditated purpose of causing fear and driving black people out of the community, then it is a hate crime and should be charged as such.

If the black dude insulted his girlfriend/wife/child or threatened them in any way, then it wouldn't be a hate crime. I just can't imagine Gandalf_The_Grey doing the former but would definitely understand and come to his defense in the latter.

Likewise, if a white dude is beaten or killed just because he is white and the intended purpose is promoting fear among the whites and driving white people out of a predominately black neighborhood, then it is also a hate crime.

The problem here is not the law or the intent of the law or application of the law. It is the words "predominately" and "the fact that many black neighborhoods are in the inner cities where crime is much more rampant against blacks, whites, hispanics, asians...well everybody." and, thereby much more difficult to prove in a court of law about the intent.

Gays/lesbians/trannies probably face prejudice and hatred and threat of indiscriminate violence almost anywhere. Okay that is outside some gay ghettos in the big cities, such as the Oaklawn area of Dallas. Are you okay with someone beating up a queer just because they don't want to see their kind around or anger that the queue in the women's bathroom is just too long even without the trannies in it, like apparently these black women did?

I wrote all of this drivel because I think some of you are unnecessarily getting your panties in a twist because of some perceived discrimination against white folk. But it is really all about discrimination and violence in the very worst sense. Alright, go ahead and feel butt hurt about it. I highly doubt this or anyone's post will change your mind.

You said butt hurt in a transexual thread.

[jkjsooner]

Not condoning the beating, but everyone should have equal protection under the law. His/her/its sexual or racial identity shouldn't play a factor in charging/sentencing the perps.

If you're talking about the actual word of the law, I would agree that the laws as written should provide equal protection. However, the sentencing part is very tricky as judges/jurrors often take into consideration all sorts of factors in sentencing (nature of the crime/motivations/etc)) so it would be impossible to say that the nature of a crime such as this could not play a role.

[okie52]

Hate crime laws are about as stupid as it gets.

[Soonerwake]

So, when he/she gets older, is he/she called a tranny granny?? :D

[Jammin']

Hate crime laws are about as stupid as it gets.

You should read the Wonder Woman thread. Now THAT'S stupid.

[Shakadoodoo]

That is messed up! Those girls need to be made an example of. Rather it is a hate crime or not - they need to throw the book at them. They should fire those workers at McDonald's as well. No one deserves that type of treatment when they are doing nothing wrong. Since they want to be tough - lock them up for a little while and let them be tough. Their friends should clown them for 2 people having to whoop a frail little person like that anyway. That is weak!

On the other hand - There needs to be some kind of protocol for that. How is an employee suppose to handle a situation like that (before the fight). It may be wrong of me to think this way but I think I would be very uncomfortable if a trans gender woman who used to be a man walked in the bathroom while my daughter was in there.

[NormanPride]

Generally, employees are taught to not get involved. The company does not pay you $5 an hour to get them sued. :D

[usmc-sooner]

I'll admit I feel less bad after finding out that the victim was some kinda freak trying to go to the girls bathroom while still having a penis. but they still took it to far and should be punished.

[Shakadoodoo]

Generally, employees are taught to not get involved. The company does not pay you $5 an hour to get them sued. :D

I agree with that - How would a manager handle it if customs were getting mad because a tranny was using the bathroom while kids were in the bathroom?

[Chuck Bao]

Crap, you guys just don't know when to stop. Now, you are imagining kids in the bathroom. Even worse, you are imagining the trannies trying to get into the girl's bathroom stalls with the kids.

Or what? Sharing makeup tips at the mirror?

And Shaky, I did expect better from you.

[Midtowner]

The whole hate crimes concept is just idiotic. Criminal acts are usually motivated by some sort of evil intent. Why should one sort of bad reason for doing something bad to someone else be worse than another bad reason? The bad act is the same and should be punished the same.

[Turd_Ferguson]

The whole hate crimes concept is just idiotic. Criminal acts are usually motivated by some sort of evil intent. Why should one sort of bad reason for doing something bad to someone else be worse than another bad reason? The bad act is the same and should be punished the same.Jessey and Al just pm'd Phil asking for your IP address...you in deep shakadoodoo now!!!

[yermom]

i have mixed feelings about it.

on one hand, yeah, assault is assault, but it's also like murder and intent.

is it a different animal to beat someone up because you are mad at them than to beat them up to send a message to a group not to vote or participate in society? probably.

the problem is when it gets thrown around too often or unfairly.

[Midtowner]

the problem is when it gets thrown around too often or unfairly.

And too often, the poor bastards being charged are given the benefit of the luck of the draw with a public defender.

[okie52]

i have mixed feelings about it.

on one hand, yeah, assault is assault, but it's also like murder and intent.

is it a different animal to beat someone up because you are mad at them than to beat them up to send a message to a group not to vote or participate in society? probably.

the problem is when it gets thrown around too often or unfairly.

Oh lord. Matthew Sheppard is the reason we now have gay hate crimes. They beat him up because they didn't like him making a move on them because he was gay. They may not have liked him because he was a dem or a repub or a libertarian or that he parted his hair funny. It really doesn't matter because they got life even before it was a hate crime.

Now we have to make sure we kill people for the right reasons so it won't be a hate crime. Geez.

[47straight]

I think hate crimes, as a separate offense or as an aggravating factor, have a place along some parts of what Chuck Bao described. If the point is indeed to intimidate a larger community, then the crime does inflict a greater harm.

The clearest example I could think of would be graffiti. Compare regular graffiti - some mindless spray paint on a random building - versus KKK graffiti on a synagogue or AA church to try to scare them out of the neighborhood. Those are very different crimes IMO and the second should be a lot stiffer.

Now, does that really have useful application in a capital murder case (where you've already maxed out the severity) or if two guys are drunk when the bars close and start yelling racial epithets at each other before beating each other? Probably not.

So I think the part that needs additional 'hate crime' protection is the element of these crimes that's intended to intimidate a larger demographic. The result would probably be very few actual applications.

[okie52]

You going to throw gang graffiti in with those hate crimes?

Its there to intimidate other gangs, you know.


Wouldn't want any gangs to feel disenfranchised.

[StoopTroup]

Mac and Carmen really had a nice thing going on....

http://thefastertimes.com/tv/files/2010/12/MacMeetsCarmen-150x150.png

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

First of all, I would like to state that Matthew Sheppard didn't get killed because he hit on some guys. Matthew Sheppard got killed because some cowards thought they were being real men by picking on one little gay guy. There is no justification for their actions on any level. However, I don't see the difference in killing Matthew Sheppard for being gay and killing John Q Public because you think his femur bone will make a nice addition to your skeleton desk you are building. Either person should get the same exact sentence which entails prison for life. I don't want either for neighbors and I am sure we can all agree on that. If they just did away with the "hate" part of hate crimes and changed it to "intent" crimes, I would feel much better.

[jkjsooner]

I think hate crimes, as a separate offense or as an aggravating factor, have a place along some parts of what Chuck Bao described.

I'm a little torn. I think most would agree that it should be considered as an aggravating factor. In an ideal world, the leeway juries/judges have to consider aggravating factors should be enough but in the real world you can't count on juries/judges to honestly weigh these factors.

It gets tricky when we start trying to define in laws the things that otherwise would be just an aggravating factor. Let's say some guy kept a handful of children in a dungeon and tortured them for weeks on end in the most horrifying ways imaginable. Some would question why isn't this aggravating factor specifically defined in law whereas racial motivations are. On the other side, you wouldn't have to do much to convince the judge/jury to take the nature of the crime into consideration but in other cases (say racial motivated murder in Mississippi) you might very likely get a jury who is willing to overlook racial intimidation as a factor.

I'm not an expert on these laws but it does appear to me that there has been a push recently to try people in the reverse situations (say a white person beaten up for being white) and I think that's a good thing. If done more (when it is obvious that race was the motiviation) I think that would alleviate much of the criticism of hate crime laws.