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OU_Sooners75
4/23/2011, 12:15 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/andy_staples/04/21/bcs-antitrust-suit/index.html


After years of threats, someone is finally going to take the BCS to court. Utah attorney general Mark Shurtleff has pledged to file an antitrust suit against the BCS in federal court within the next two months. Naturally, the rhetoric coming out of the hollowed-out volcano that serves as BCS headquarters is that any negative legal consequences would send conferences rushing into the arms of the old bowl, pre-Alliance, pre-Coalition, pre-BCS bowl system.

It's time we called that bluff. Go for it. Run to the old system. A large group of schools may find its embrace far less comforting than they remember.
In his suit, Shurtleff will allege "serious antitrust violations that are harming taxpayer-funded institutions to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars," the Utah AG told USA Today on Wednesday. He expects other states to join. He does not know if the U.S. Department of Justice, which has been investigating the BCS, will join. (At this point, some of you are wondering why any government -- state or federal -- would spend money on this. Ask yourself this: Wouldn't the government usually be interested in a multibillion-dollar business run through public universities? Because that's what this is.)

Can Shurtleff win? That's debatable. Whether the BCS is a cartel that restricts free trade and harms taxpayers -- who fund most of the schools involved -- and/or consumers is a tricky question. If you read this space often, you know I believe the BCS is the college football equivalent of OPEC and that university presidents are fiscally irresponsible for leaving hundreds of millions of playoff TV rights fee dollars on the table so a particular group of schools can maintain control of the sport. But I'm a sportswriter. I'm neither an economist nor an attorney. This group of 21 economists and attorneys believes the BCS is a cartel, and they offer a compelling argument as to why. Two antitrust attorneys, writing in the Sports Business Journal last year, offer an equally compelling argument as to why the BCS does not harm the consumer and should be safe from antitrust challenges.

That could be up to a court to decide, but these cases rarely make it to trial. The antitrust case brought by the universities of Georgia and Oklahoma against the NCAA over regular-season TV rights in 1981 went all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court in 1984, but most of these cases are settled long before the justices get involved. In this case, the conferences and bowls that run the BCS could negotiate a compromise. They could offer a plus-one system like the one touted a few years ago by SEC commissioner Mike Slive and ACC commissioner John Swofford. That's really just a four-team playoff, and it would take the starch out of Shurtleff's argument that the BCS makes it impossible for certain schools to play for the national title. Under that system, Utah would have played in a semifinal in 2008, TCU would have played in one in 2009 and the Horned Frogs would again have played in one in 2010.

But what if the BCS leaders chose to fight and lost? Or what if they went through with their threat to revert to the old bowl system as a defense? After all, the old system truly was an open market. Bowls and conferences and TV networks were free to form whatever pacts they could with no artificial restraints.

The schools involved can't afford to lose the case -- unless they know they'll get an NFL-USFL verdict. The case would cost millions to defend and could result in millions more in damages. With only a handful of athletic departments operating in the black, the damages could be catastrophic. So if at any point the schools feel they might lose, they'll probably cut bait.

If they do, they'll face two choices: the old system, which would bring in far less money, or a playoff, which would bring in far more. Common sense suggests presidents would pick the playoff, which conservative estimates peg at $300-$400 million a year in rights fees on top of what the remaining bowls would bring, but the anti-playoff forces are powerful, influential and firmly entrenched. It's easy to imagine power brokers such as Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany talking presidents into a move back to the old system -- especially since the dramatic recent shift in the value of sports television programming might allow the total revenue to come somewhat close to the revenue generated by the current system, which distributed $169.9 million last year through the BCS and $108.7 million through the other bowls.

So let's say the old system could generate similar numbers, even though it probably can't without the ratings bonanza of a game marketed as a championship. How would such a system look?

Since this is a truly open market, each bowl would be free to negotiate with each conference. To guarantee the huge payouts required to come close to the dollars a playoff would generate, the bowls would have to consider two factors. They would have to sell all their tickets, and they would have to guarantee a television partner a huge rating. Meanwhile, conferences would want to lock in deals with bowls so schools could reliably budget for the future.

The Rose Bowl would be in great shape. It consistently delivers the highest non-title game rating, and if it wasn't handcuffed to the Fiesta, Sugar and Orange bowls, it would command the highest television rights fee. The Big Ten champ vs. Pac-10 champ model has served it well, so there would be no reason to change anything.

The Sugar Bowl has a long relationship with the SEC, the conference that delivers the best regular-season television ratings. It would move to lock up the SEC champ, and if CEO Paul Hoolahan wanted to earn his massive salary, he'd find a way to take away the Big 12 champ from a Fiesta Bowl weakened by scandal. Visions of Alabama-Oklahoma or Georgia-Texas would delight television executives. But since this is a free market and the BCS bowls no longer enjoy exalted status, there is no guarantee the Cotton or Chick-fil-A Bowls wouldn't try to make a run around the Sugar. Both are well-run games played in NFL facilities in huge metro areas with huge airports. The leadership at both bowls is smart enough to make this leap.

But let's say the Sugar locked down both targets and move further down the rights-fee food chain. The Cotton Bowl, now played in Jerry Jones' Football Palace and Chicken-and-Waffle Emporium, needs a premium matchup. But with the Big 12 and SEC champs gone, it has to settle for the second choice from each conference. Why not the champ of another conference? Because the TV executives want all-but-guaranteed numbers. Big 12 No. 2 vs. SEC No. 2 still might produce Texas-Florida or Oklahoma-LSU. Taking the ACC champ might get you Florida State or Miami, which get ratings, but it also might get you Wake Forest. Also, because of geography, the tickets stand a better chance of getting sold with the SEC-Big 12 matchup.

Other than the Fiesta, the Orange Bowl is in the weakest position because the BCS has done it few favors of late. Its ratings stink because it has gotten horrible matchups. So the only way to generate a decent payout is to make a fantastic matchup. With the champs of the Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-10 and SEC gone and the runners-up from the SEC and Big 12 gone, the Orange would face stiff competition from the Fiesta, which also would want to lock up the best potential TV ratings. At this point, the Big Ten runner-up is the best value left on the board. The Orange outbids the Fiesta and grabs that team, which in most years will come from this group: Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Iowa, Penn State, Nebraska, Wisconsin. Those are huge fan bases that make for great TV numbers. So what now? Does the Orange take the ACC champ or go for SEC No. 3? It's pretty much a toss-up.

The Fiesta, after missing out on Big Ten No. 2, takes Pac-10 No. 2 and matches it against Notre Dame. Every year. Because Notre Dame equals ratings and sellouts.

Meanwhile, the Capital One, Outback and Gator bowls all rush in to keep their current Big Ten-SEC matchups. If the bowls had their way, every game would be Big Ten-SEC. Delany and SEC commissioner Mike Slive could visit the campuses of their member schools and fire dollar bills from T-shirt cannons. Further west, The Alamo Bowl takes Big 12 No. 3 and matches it against Pac-10 No. 2. Pac-10 No. 3 and Big 12 No. 4 would face off in the Holiday Bowl, unless the Mountain West could somehow shoehorn its champ into the game.

I could keep going, but you've probably already picked up on the trend. First, you've probably noticed I've barely mentioned any conferences from outside the Big Six. In a reversion to the old system, those conferences would be harmed. But they would be rolling the dice for reasons that will become obvious in a few paragraphs. You've also probably noticed that I barely mentioned the ACC and didn't mention the Big East at all. In an open market, at best, the ACC champ is equal to the No. 3 team in the SEC as a purely economic choice for a bowl game. The Big East champ falls far below that.

So while the ACC and Big East enjoyed equal footing in the BCS, they would occupy their own caste in a reversion to the old system. They wouldn't be the Mountain West or Conference USA, but they wouldn't be the SEC, Big Ten or Big 12, either. Call it bowl purgatory. The real difference would be the money. Even if it the system equaled what the BCS brings in now, the lion's share would be split among four conferences instead of six.

Essentially, that would add 20 schools to the have-nots list. The 2011 season will begin with 66 haves and 54 have-nots in the FBS. Under the system outlined above, have-nots would outnumber haves 74-46 and would win any vote that didn't involve the top revenue-generating schools breaking free from the NCAA. (Which is its own solution, but that's another argument for another day.) John Infante, the author of the excellent Bylaw Blog, explained to me on Twitter that even with the voting rules required to do something as complex as changing the FBS football postseason, the have-nots in this scenario would have the necessary votes to pass anything they wanted if they stood united.

So if the newest have-nots decided they could make more money with a playoff, they might band together with their former serfs and call NCAA headquarters. The following conversation might take place.

Big East commissioner John Marinatto: President Mark Emmert, please.
Emmert: John, how are things?
Marinatto: I'm not going to lie, Mark. It's not nearly as much fun at the kids' table.
Emmert: How can we help?
Marinatto: Well, my league rakes in a ton from that basketball tourney you run. Any chance we could do something like that in football?
Emmert: Well, John, I've always said we know an awful lot about running championship tournaments.
Happy lawyering, BCS.

Sooner_Tuf
4/23/2011, 03:17 AM
Haha!

yermom
4/23/2011, 04:22 AM
but, Utah is now in the BCS, no?

TCU as well, in a year



it's not the BCS's fault that no one voted those teams #1 or #2

soonerloyal
4/23/2011, 08:16 AM
Yay! A Republican standing up for taxpayers instead of siding with a monopolizing cartel? Woo-HOO!

Oops, wrong forum.

MeMyself&Me
4/23/2011, 08:51 AM
OK, so lets sue the BCS, break it up and all that, then we'll just go back to the way it was before. :)

Leroy Lizard
4/23/2011, 09:24 AM
I, for one, would love a Big XII versus SEC Sugar Bowl every year. That would be awesome. And I liked the old Rose Bowl matchups.

badger
4/23/2011, 09:29 AM
I think the NCAA would love an excuse to get a football playoff for FBS teams if the pesky BCS contract wasn't in the way. Some teams would probably get less money initially, but as it is now, the bowl system is very much a money losing operation under the guise of non-profit, but with highly paid CEOs leading them, wearing ugly orange jackets at Big 12 games handing out mini patches. Bleh.

MeMyself&Me
4/23/2011, 11:09 AM
I think the NCAA would love an excuse to get a football playoff for FBS teams if the pesky BCS contract wasn't in the way. Some teams would probably get less money initially, but as it is now, the bowl system is very much a money losing operation under the guise of non-profit, but with highly paid CEOs leading them, wearing ugly orange jackets at Big 12 games handing out mini patches. Bleh.

I don't see how the BCS is 'in the way' of the NCAA implementing a tournament. All they have to do is vote to make it happen.

Sooner_Tuf
4/23/2011, 11:19 AM
I don't see how the BCS is 'in the way' of the NCAA implementing a tournament. All they have to do is vote to make it happen.

Do the words contractually obligated mean anything to you?

MeMyself&Me
4/23/2011, 11:30 AM
Do the words contractually obligated mean anything to you?

Umm, yes, but if they didn't want this contract, they didn't have to sign it and then they could vote for something else. The contract itself isn't what stands in the way. They've already said in the past that if the issue is forced on the BCS, they'll go back to the old bowl system.

ouwasp
4/23/2011, 01:56 PM
Whatever happens... it's just a matter of the university presidents absolute stubborness in resistance to a playoff...

Can somebody succintly explain it to me?

Money? Is that the reason? Wouldn't a playoff be like a dollar printing-press?

Or is there another more obtuse reason?

Sooner_Tuf
4/23/2011, 01:59 PM
The BCS, NCAA, and the Universities are unique institutions. The Universities chose the BCS are bound to them for the duration of the contract. The NCAA has nothing to do with this. Some Universities, ie Utah, Boise, etc, are championing for a playoff.

The University Presidents have voted to use the BCS. The big problem is that these schools want a guaranteed piece of the pie when they bring little to nothing to the table. There is a reason there are BCS Conferences and non-BCS Conferences.

Ironically non-BCS Conferences are not locked out of BCS Games but instead are not guaranteed a spot.

There may be an anti-trust issue here but I don't believe that it will go anywhere. These schools have the right to start their own league and configure it anyway they want. Which is what they should do instead of trying to involve the Government.

Sooner_Tuf
4/23/2011, 02:05 PM
Whatever happens... it's just a matter of the university presidents absolute stubborness in resistance to a playoff...

Can somebody succintly explain it to me?

Money? Is that the reason? Wouldn't a playoff be like a dollar printing-press?

Or is there another more obtuse reason?

I'm sure it is about money. Playoffs are used to just about every other college sport and they don't generate much if any money. The Bowl system works. Lots of effort and money has been put into it for a long time.

But yes like anything like this I would think ultimately it boils down to money.

Bowl Games are about having fun and going on vacations. Who doesn't like the sound of that?

MeMyself&Me
4/23/2011, 02:14 PM
There may be an anti-trust issue here but I don't believe that it will go anywhere. These schools have the right to start their own league and configure it anyway they want. Which is what they should do instead of trying to involve the Government.

This is where I stand. There is actually an alternative already in existence as well in the form of the NAIA which has been around for a very long time... but nobody really cares about the NAIA which is the problem here. They want in on the money stream that has been created by the bluebloods of college football which means they have to be a part of the NCAA and play in the FBS division.

The funny part to me is that if this anti-trust case were to actually get rid of the BCS, we're more likely to go back to the old way rather than a post season tournament. In the old way, the 'non-BCS' schools would NEVER go to one of the premier bowls whereas right now they can. They may be shooting themselves in the foot here.

Leroy Lizard
4/23/2011, 03:26 PM
Whatever happens... it's just a matter of the university presidents absolute stubborness in resistance to a playoff...

Can somebody succintly explain it to me?

Money? Is that the reason? Wouldn't a playoff be like a dollar printing-press?

Or is there another more obtuse reason?

Holy **** we've only gone over this a million times.

yermom
4/23/2011, 03:27 PM
This is where I stand. There is actually an alternative already in existence as well in the form of the NAIA which has been around for a very long time... but nobody really cares about the NAIA which is the problem here. They want in on the money stream that has been created by the bluebloods of college football which means they have to be a part of the NCAA and play in the FBS division.

The funny part to me is that if this anti-trust case were to actually get rid of the BCS, we're more likely to go back to the old way rather than a post season tournament. In the old way, the 'non-BCS' schools would NEVER go to one of the premier bowls whereas right now they can. They may be shooting themselves in the foot here.

yeah, they already got a seat at the table, and the BCS is diluted beacause of the extra game already

Leroy Lizard
4/23/2011, 03:28 PM
This is where I stand. There is actually an alternative already in existence as well in the form of the NAIA which has been around for a very long time... but nobody really cares about the NAIA which is the problem here. They want in on the money stream that has been created by the bluebloods of college football which means they have to be a part of the NCAA and play in the FBS division.

The funny part to me is that if this anti-trust case were to actually get rid of the BCS, we're more likely to go back to the old way rather than a post season tournament. In the old way, the 'non-BCS' schools would NEVER go to one of the premier bowls whereas right now they can. They may be shooting themselves in the foot here.

All because one school just couldn't be happy.

Mongo
4/23/2011, 03:32 PM
what standing will they have since they did play in a BCS game and stomped Bama?

MeMyself&Me
4/23/2011, 03:48 PM
yeah, they already got a seat at the table, and the BCS is diluted beacause of the extra game already

What I mean is that with the BCS, there's auto-qualifying rules for everyone. It does favor the BCS conferences but it's that auto-qualifying part that gets the johnny come latelys to the dance.

In the old way, there was no auto-qualifying rule for schools like Boise State. The major conference winners had auto tie-ins to the best of the bowls and usually the opponent was someone that the bowl would invite. The Boise States of college football would never get an invite to one of the big bowls in the old way because they don't bring any money to the table.

yermom
4/23/2011, 04:05 PM
that's what i mean

no BCS and it's pretty tough for the Boise States of the world to make major bowls

ouwasp
4/23/2011, 04:32 PM
I'm for whatever it takes to get a playoff started. If it's this lawsuit, great. I figure most yrs OU would be in good shape to be included in, say, an 8 or twelve team bracket...

Let the 7-5 teams and their fans enjoy bowl trips. Good for them.

I just want to see the Sooners win on the Biggest Stage. A playoff would be that...

Octavian
4/23/2011, 05:02 PM
This won't get a playoff started.

If the BCS is destroyed, we'll go back to the old bowl system with conference tie-ins. The conference commissioners have already said so.

A playoff is not gonna happen.

SoonerinLondon
4/23/2011, 05:04 PM
No playoffs for me. If the BCS dies, go back to beauty-pageant polls. I think a playoff will kill the fun of the regular season. JMHO

Leroy Lizard
4/23/2011, 05:21 PM
No playoffs for me. If the BCS dies, go back to beauty-pageant polls. I think a playoff will kill the fun of the regular season. JMHO

I remember the old days of the conference tie-ins and college football was every bit as exciting as it is today. I would love to go back to that system.

OU_Sooners75
4/23/2011, 05:56 PM
but, Utah is now in the BCS, no?

TCU as well, in a year



it's not the BCS's fault that no one voted those teams #1 or #2

Not the university, the State.

OU_Sooners75
4/23/2011, 06:03 PM
If this is successful in breaking up the BCS, we might see the old bowl system back in place. Which in return opens the door for the NCAA to implement a playoff tournament.

I am more anti-BCS than I am pro-playoff.

I would love to see the old format, because then we wouldn't be stuck in Tempe every damn bowl game.

Sooner_Tuf
4/23/2011, 06:22 PM
We haven't been stuck in Tempe every year. Under the old format we would have been in Miami most years instead of New Orleans, Pasadena, Glendale, etc.

OU_Sooners75
4/23/2011, 06:26 PM
We haven't been stuck in Tempe every year. Under the old format we would have been in Miami most years instead of New Orleans, Pasadena, Glendale, etc.

We win the conference, we are in Tempe playing some Johnny-Come-Lately, unless we are playing for the BCS Title.

I would much rather play a SEC team every year if not playing for the title!

Muno
4/23/2011, 08:55 PM
I am a lawyer and I know a few lawyers who practice antitrust law including my law professor who teaches it and all three I spoke with think the Utah AG's chances of winning are a real long shot. In fact my law school professor says they have virtually no shot at winning.

The key is not to prove harm to the schools because they are competing against each other and in the marketplace there always winners and losers. The key is whether the arrangement that some of the schools have set up (the BCS) has harmed consumers. I've always viewed the consumer as the typical football fan but it looks like the Utah AG is taking a different approach to defining the consumer. It is an interesting angle the Utah AG is taking here but it doesn't sound like this will end well for him.

Mongo
4/23/2011, 09:19 PM
I am a lawyer and I know a few lawyers who practice antitrust law including my law professor who teaches it and all three I spoke with think the Utah AG's chances of winning are a real long shot. In fact my law school professor says they have virtually no shot at winning.

The key is not to prove harm to the schools because they are competing against each other and in the marketplace there always winners and losers. The key is whether the arrangement that some of the schools have set up (the BCS) has harmed consumers. I've always viewed the consumer as the typical football fan but it looks like the Utah AG is taking a different approach to defining the consumer. It is an interesting angle the Utah AG is taking here but it doesn't sound like this will end well for him.

you didnt use any Latin legal terms. your opinion is useless to us commoners without them

MeMyself&Me
4/23/2011, 11:22 PM
I am more anti-BCS than I am pro-playoff.


That's funny. I'm more anti-playoff than anything. In fact I'd place preference in this order:

1) Pre-BCS
2) BCS




100) Post season tourny


So I watch this legal battle with a bit of amusement. Like Muno said, I've heard some lawyers I respect say that this has little chance of going anywhere. So I see the chances of the result of this lawsuit like the following:

90% This dies in court and does nothing.
9% This wins in court and we go back to the old way.
1% This wins in court and it leads to a post season tournament.

SoonerinLondon
4/23/2011, 11:40 PM
That's funny. I'm more anti-playoff than anything. In fact I'd place preference in this order:

1) Pre-BCS
2) BCS




100) Post season tourny

I'm with you against the playoff. Not sure about the pre or post-BCS order. Both have their merits. I think the old BCS that used schedule strength and more computer weight maybe.

ouwasp
4/24/2011, 12:04 AM
In the late '70s, when I was in my teens, it seems like OU had several 1-loss seasons and #3 finishes. That's when I began favoring a playoff and wondering why there were playoffs in so many other sports but not football. Still wonder that. I'm glad the BCS came along to replace the antiquated tie-in system, but they should have kept the strength of schedule component, imo...

Sooner_Tuf
4/24/2011, 09:31 AM
We win the conference, we are in Tempe playing some Johnny-Come-Lately, unless we are playing for the BCS Title.

I would much rather play a SEC team every year if not playing for the title!

We haven't played in Tempe since 1983.

OU_Sooners75
4/24/2011, 11:06 AM
Same damn valley!

OU_Sooners75
4/24/2011, 11:22 AM
That's funny. I'm more anti-playoff than anything. In fact I'd place preference in this order:

1) Pre-BCS
2) BCS




100) Post season tourny


So I watch this legal battle with a bit of amusement. Like Muno said, I've heard some lawyers I respect say that this has little chance of going anywhere. So I see the chances of the result of this lawsuit like the following:

90% This dies in court and does nothing.
9% This wins in court and we go back to the old way.
1% This wins in court and it leads to a post season tournament.


If we go back to the old system...You can bet that the NCAA will do everything within its power to create a playoff. The only reason they haven't yet is because of the contracts with the BCS.

Anyone against a playoff just doesn't understand what the playoff would do.

If this report is correct and there is $300-400 million that can be had and the BCS is only tapping into roughly half that...then yes, the NCAA will go playoff.

What are the reasons for people being against playoff? They haven't changed:

1. Too much time from academics. (Horse ****...a baseball team, basketball team, wrestling team, etc spends more time traveling than a football team does. Football is played on Saturdays. Team usually shows up on Friday on an away game. Besides, playoffs would start and most likely finish after all school is finished.)
2. Too many games. (In most high school divisions, if a team makes a playoff, there are an average of 4 extra games. This gives the high school teams 14-15 games a season if you make the state playoff. If there is a playoff, the most we would get now in a 16 team playoff is 17 games if you make the playoffs.)
3. It would hurt the regular season. (Another horse**** call here. We have teams, like Florida, that does not schedule tough non-conference games outside of any Florida school. BCS drives for perfection from teams. If you lose, most likely you are out of the chance for a title. It is also based off rankings. If you start outside the top 20, you likely wont make a title game even if undefeated. It also strives to pit two big 6 conference teams together while giving a smoke screen that the Mid Majors can make it. In a playoff, you would see more top notch programs scheduling each other. The end of the season would be very exciting because of the conference races. Unlike in the NFL where there are only 32 teams and 12 of them make the playoffs, the regular season in the NCAA would have a very good meaning if they only take conference champs and no at large bids.)
4. The playoffs would not generate much money and run up the cost of team and fan travel. (Yeah, but it would not be unlike any other week in college football. Those fans that can afford the travel will go, those that can't wont. Schools would still get paid for games they have to travel too. There would be a lot of money available for the playoff, compared to a capped market right now from the BCS.)

The BCS is an unfair and unjust system. When you put the championship in the hands of rankings, human or computer, it is bogus. The only way to have a true champion is to put the top teams against each other on the field, not on a human ballot or computer.

Scott D
4/24/2011, 11:34 AM
I don't see how the BCS is 'in the way' of the NCAA implementing a tournament. All they have to do is vote to make it happen.

It has a lot to do with that lawsuit that was won by OU and Georgia.

The Utah AG could win this, but it's going to be difficult to prove. He'd have to prove collusion which would include the Coaches and Writers from the state of Utah as well.

yermom
4/24/2011, 12:17 PM
If we go back to the old system...You can bet that the NCAA will do everything within its power to create a playoff. The only reason they haven't yet is because of the contracts with the BCS.

Anyone against a playoff just doesn't understand what the playoff would do.

If this report is correct and there is $300-400 million that can be had and the BCS is only tapping into roughly half that...then yes, the NCAA will go playoff.

What are the reasons for people being against playoff? They haven't changed:

1. Too much time from academics. (Horse ****...a baseball team, basketball team, wrestling team, etc spends more time traveling than a football team does. Football is played on Saturdays. Team usually shows up on Friday on an away game. Besides, playoffs would start and most likely finish after all school is finished.)
2. Too many games. (In most high school divisions, if a team makes a playoff, there are an average of 4 extra games. This gives the high school teams 14-15 games a season if you make the state playoff. If there is a playoff, the most we would get now in a 16 team playoff is 17 games if you make the playoffs.)
3. It would hurt the regular season. (Another horse**** call here. We have teams, like Florida, that does not schedule tough non-conference games outside of any Florida school. BCS drives for perfection from teams. If you lose, most likely you are out of the chance for a title. It is also based off rankings. If you start outside the top 20, you likely wont make a title game even if undefeated. It also strives to pit two big 6 conference teams together while giving a smoke screen that the Mid Majors can make it. In a playoff, you would see more top notch programs scheduling each other. The end of the season would be very exciting because of the conference races. Unlike in the NFL where there are only 32 teams and 12 of them make the playoffs, the regular season in the NCAA would have a very good meaning if they only take conference champs and no at large bids.)
4. The playoffs would not generate much money and run up the cost of team and fan travel. (Yeah, but it would not be unlike any other week in college football. Those fans that can afford the travel will go, those that can't wont. Schools would still get paid for games they have to travel too. There would be a lot of money available for the playoff, compared to a capped market right now from the BCS.)

The BCS is an unfair and unjust system. When you put the championship in the hands of rankings, human or computer, it is bogus. The only way to have a true champion is to put the top teams against each other on the field, not on a human ballot or computer.

3) the feel of the season would change a lot the depending on how many teams are added to the play-off

4) it's hard enough to plan travel twice in a month at the end of the season with no real guarantees. adding 1-2 games to that would be a nightmare.

where is all this extra money coming from in a play-off situation? killing the bowl system seems like it's going to hurt the bottom and middle of the pack schools more than help them. there are more of them than there are powerhouse schools.

Sooner_Tuf
4/24/2011, 12:31 PM
When something works as well as the FBS does I wouldn't mess with it. There is currently a playoff in the FCS and in NAIA. Those stadiums are relatively empty and sometimes completely empty for playoff games.

It is also a large financial burden for most teams to travel for these games. The cities hosting them won't be kicking like the Bowls do now. It is tough for the fans also. You'll be trying to book travel on short notice to god knows where.

One aspect that is often overlooked that while the old bowl system and the BCS crown a Champion it leaves the door open for fans to make an argument for their team. It leaves the fans of many top teams with their pride so to speak.

For example Texas Fans all but claim a Title for 2008 when we played Florida. Auburn pretty much does the same for the year they went undefeated and were left out. Anyone but an Auburn Fan actually believe they could have won that game?

I think a playoff is a bad idea. It isn't going to happen soon. It is very possible that it will happen down the road but I hope there is much thought involved before making such a huge change to College Football.

The way the NCAA deals with Div 1 ball I don't like the idea of them running it. Of course can you imagine how the Conferences themselves will get along trying to decide on who, what where?

College ball is what it is and what it is is pretty wonderful. Don't **** it up!

MeMyself&Me
4/24/2011, 02:51 PM
If we go back to the old system...You can bet that the NCAA will do everything within its power to create a playoff. The only reason they haven't yet is because of the contracts with the BCS.

If this were the case, I'd expect that NCAA member institutions would vote to have a post season tournament at the end of the current BCS contract. They could do that vote today even. They don't have to vote to make it happen now. Just vote now to make it happen when the BCS contract is up. And each time that contract gets renewed it shows that the NCAA member institutions do not want a post season tournament.

It's not the contract that is in the way. They just choose not to do it. Why? I don't know. I'll let others speculate on that.

OU_Sooners75
4/24/2011, 11:38 PM
Look at the facts though.

The bowls, mainly the big ones (current BCS bowls) are corrupt.

These things are suppose to be non-profit, but they arent.

The only reason the bowl system is so strong is because of the money they spend on conference commissioners, university presidents, heads of Athletic departments, and coaches.

If there was a way to crown a truer national champion in the BCS or the bowl system, that would be awesome.

But if you take the top 8 conference champions:
This would usually mean, the top 8 schools from the ACC, Big East, Big 10, Big 12, Mountain West, PAC-10, SEC, and one of the following depending on rank; WAC, C-USA, and Independents, then you would get a pretty fair system. If you are not a top ranked independent or a conference champ of the latter two conferences, then you do not get an invite...you get relegated to the old bowl system instead.

Logically thinking, the best playoff would be a 12-16 team playoff. All conference champs, Top independent to make 12 teams. If 16 teams, those above mentioned, and then the top 4 in rank as at-large regardless of conference affiliation.

Hell, even if they keep a ranking system that ranks teams equally (NO HUMAN RANKINGS), say like the RPI, or average computer rank with SOS involved to make a top 8. Those top 8 get bids to the national playoff, no matter if they are conference champs or not. Also regardless of conference affiliation. Have a 8 team playoff that way.

There are plenty of possibilities that would make for a truer national champion than the BCS...and that would keep intact the excitement of the regular season.

If none of those are feasible, then go back to the old system, and if there is a split national championship, then so be it!

Par the top conference winners up...kind of like what the article suggests.
Rose: Big 10 vs. Pac-10 champions
Sugar: SEC Champion vs. Big 12 Champion (see cotton bowl)
Orange: ACC vs Big East or whatever
Cotton: Big 12 Champion or #2 vs. SEC #2 or Big 10 #2

Who cares about the others, let the others do a bidding war for teams or have their own ties.

The biggest problem with the old system was that the Conference champ of one of the big 6 conferences (sans Rose Bowl) would not match up a conference champ against another top 6 conference.

Anyway, I hope this all makes sense. I am kind of..no...I am really drunk right now.

Curly Bill
4/25/2011, 12:17 AM
No playoffs for me. If the BCS dies, go back to beauty-pageant polls. I think a playoff will kill the fun of the regular season. JMHO

Yes sir! You have few posts here, but you have already shown wisdom. :D

OU_Sooners75
4/25/2011, 01:02 AM
Yes sir! You have few posts here, but you have already shown wisdom. :D


Next he will say Fire Brent Venebles. :D

Curly Bill
4/25/2011, 01:16 AM
That would proves his smarts twofold. :D

I personally have no faith that will ever happen, or that anyone will ever lure BV away. Bob apparently has a crush on him, and so we are stuck with him. ;)

OU_Sooners75
4/25/2011, 01:19 AM
That would proves his smarts twofold. :D

I personally have no faith that will ever happen, or that anyone will ever lure BV away. Bob apparently has a crush on him, and so we are stuck with him. ;)


Then you should do like I did and just embrace him! ;)

You know as well as I do, I was on that fire bv wagon for a bit too!

Curly Bill
4/25/2011, 01:25 AM
I still think it should be done, and no I will never embrace him as OU's DC. He continues to be what I've always insisted: a good, but not OU level coordinator. That being said Bob wouldn't get rid of him if he nuked a bus full of children, so we're stuck with him.

So...embrace? Hell no! Accept it as something that will never change? Yes. :(

OU_Sooners75
4/25/2011, 03:04 AM
I still think it should be done, and no I will never embrace him as OU's DC. He continues to be what I've always insisted: a good, but not OU level coordinator. That being said Bob wouldn't get rid of him if he nuked a bus full of children, so we're stuck with him.

So...embrace? Hell no! Accept it as something that will never change? Yes. :(


Could you accept him as our DC then? It isn't like he is a terrible DC. He is a good DC...and one of the top 10 DCs in the nation when you look at it.

Is he a Mike Stoops? No. Is he a Rex Ryan? No. But both of those coaches are off to other things as head coaches. And when you get coaches like those two, they will leave in a hurry and instability will rise up. BV provides stability.

His defenses are inconsistent...But they are good. We have finally got our roster in a good balance. We do not have too many seniors with too many freshmen one year and not enough in between...

I think that helps sustain a successful defense for a long time.

I honestly cannot think of a DC in the nation (CFB Only) that I would rather have at this point in time...and this is after quite a few hate posts of the guy.

SoonerPr8r
4/25/2011, 02:33 PM
Wouldn't a mid stream switch cause a problem with TV contracts? These contracts overlap the BCS/NCAA contracts and are based on participation in the BCS system. Now some of the networks may want to keep the terms the same but what about whatever network carries the big east or acc? Are they going to be major players in a tourney? Probably not, but right now they are AQ teams and get the BCS game at the end of the year guaranteed. Also who is to say that this shiny new deal everyone is drooling over with FSN would with only a 10 member Big XII.
All of that to say this, there are so many interconnected things that a huge transition period would have to happen before there was a tourney and if the BCS disappeared tomorrow there would be quite a bit of chaos.

OU_Sooners75
4/25/2011, 02:40 PM
Wouldn't a mid stream switch cause a problem with TV contracts? These contracts overlap the BCS/NCAA contracts and are based on participation in the BCS system. Now some of the networks may want to keep the terms the same but what about whatever network carries the big east or acc? Are they going to be major players in a tourney? Probably not, but right now they are AQ teams and get the BCS game at the end of the year guaranteed. Also who is to say that this shiny new deal everyone is drooling over with FSN would with only a 10 member Big XII.
All of that to say this, there are so many interconnected things that a huge transition period would have to happen before there was a tourney and if the BCS disappeared tomorrow there would be quite a bit of chaos.

I don't think there would be much chaos at all. BCS bowls have nothing to do with the contracts because the BCS has a separate TV contract. Also, the current situation would still continue until the contract with the BCS are up.

As far as playoff...there are multiple ways you could do it. I have been in favor of all conference champions (including all mid majors).

However, that would mean some teams like North Texas or Troy or Buffalo would get into the playoff over some very good teams from a BCS conference.

Top 8-12 teams regardless of conference affiliation is included...

I don't know what would work the best...but the NCAA has been running tournaments for a very long time, so I am sure they would find a good fit that makes all parties happy.

MeMyself&Me
4/25/2011, 02:55 PM
Wouldn't a mid stream switch cause a problem with TV contracts? These contracts overlap the BCS/NCAA contracts and are based on participation in the BCS system. Now some of the networks may want to keep the terms the same but what about whatever network carries the big east or acc? Are they going to be major players in a tourney? Probably not, but right now they are AQ teams and get the BCS game at the end of the year guaranteed. Also who is to say that this shiny new deal everyone is drooling over with FSN would with only a 10 member Big XII.
All of that to say this, there are so many interconnected things that a huge transition period would have to happen before there was a tourney and if the BCS disappeared tomorrow there would be quite a bit of chaos.

No. If the NCAA wanted a college football tournament for FBS, all the member institutions have to do is vote for it to happen at the end of the BCS contract. They never do it because they don't want one. Forcing the removal of the BCS wont result in a playoff, it just sends it back to they way it was before where the bowls sought their participants on their own and almost never is there a #1 vs #2 and non-AQ teams have even less access to top tier bowls.