"Lets lower the drinking age to 18"

[oudavid1]

a girl in my speech class had this idea for her speech.

I destroyed her after she was done.

Does anyone think this is logical?

[olevetonahill]

Its been tried, dint werk

[OhU1]

Yes I did, before I turned 21.

[soonerinabilene]

I've always thought if you are old enough to die for country you should be able to have a beer in that country too.

[sooner_born_1960]

It's just a number. They've picked 21 for now. If another gets picked at some time in the future, no biggie.

[Thaumaturge]

a girl in my speech class had this idea for her speech.

I destroyed her after she was done.

WOOOOOOOO!!! High-five!

You obliterated her!

[My Opinion Matters]

No one over 21 cares, and no one under 21 matters. So good luck with all that.

[yermom]

i think you should be 21 to tweet, personally.

[KuppiKunta]

Please give highlights of her speech, and your rebuttal.

[yermom]

No one under 21 cares, and no one under 21 matters. So good luck with all that.

they have no money and they don't vote.

[AlboSooner]

i think you should be 21 to tweet, personally.

:D

[3rdgensooner]

I destroyed her after she was done.
Go on...

[oudavid1]

I've always thought if you are old enough to die for country you should be able to have a beer in that country too.

But no one gets peer pressured to die for their country, or at least not as much as drinking. Everybody wants to drink. Drinking gets you laid a lot more than serving does.


It's just a number. They've picked 21 for now. If another gets picked at some time in the future, no biggie.

I think it matters. 18 is way lower than 21.

[sooner_born_1960]

No one under 21 cares, and no one under 21 matters. So good luck with all that.
Don't you mean "over", in the first case?

[Leroy Lizard]

Since I'm not under 21, then I have no reason to support lowering the drinking age limit.

[My Opinion Matters]

Don't you mean "over", in the first case?

Well f*ck.

[My Opinion Matters]

Well f*ck.

I'm over 21, so I can be drunk right now.

[OUMallen]

As a fraternity advisor, I defy you to try to enforce the 21 drinking age on a typical large college campus, such as OU. It's not workable. Literally.

[KantoSooner]

I'm not sure it makes much difference. Does the current drinking age really stop kids from drinking? Does the prohibition on pot make buying and smoking it hard? (corollary: can you imagine a system that would make pot MORE accessible to kids? Seriously? It's harder for most kids to buy beer than pot. And any kid who's say acheived 16 and doesn't know where to go to buy pot is most likely a social leper or paralyzingly stupid.)

Here's an example: In Japan, the drinking age is 21. In Japan, they have beer, wine and cocktails available in vending machines; many of which are in secluded locations, convenient for surreptitious purchases. Teen drinking there? About the same as here and about the same as here on teen smoking, teen sex, teen prostitution, etc. The laws don't seem to matter much.

Prohibition on pot does, however, provide an excuse for law enforcement to arrest and control youth of color or socio-economic class who are not able to work the system. And that, very obviously in the early versions of the law(s) is precisely what they were designed to do.

So write whatever laws you want. Just don't pretend that they have anything to do with substance use/abuse.

[oudavid1]

underage drinking is a problem. This would make it so much worse. But im also a non drinking. 99% of college students drink more than me.

[jumperstop]

I bet you being 21 didn't stop her from drinking at 18. I bet it was a party girl who gave this speech, just like the hippy giving the legalize marijuana speech....I might have cared before I was 21, but now I don't give two ****s. How many people take their first drink at 21 anyways?

[Viking Kitten]

Well damn. You've convinced me with your wicked rhetorical skillz.

[StoopTroup]

I think we should raise the driving age and voting to 25.

Buying a gun? 30

Renting a gun? 16, but you only get a single shot .410 shotgun with a 22" barrel :D

If you want to ever have any of these rights then you must serve honorably in one of the Armed Services where you can learn discipline and how to use them properly.

Everybody else gets to wait until 30

[AlboSooner]

underage drinking is a problem.

so is overage drinking. if you can moderate drinking, and not get yourself and others in a mess, I don't care how old you are.

[The Profit]

They should bring back the draft; 18 for 2 years mandatory active duty service and 2 years reserve. There should be no exceptions for anyone, except the physical and mentally handicapped. A rich daddy, or a politically connected mama shouldn't be enough to keep and young man or young lady from serving. The service can be military, or it can be in a civil service role. At that time, they can lower the drinking age to 18.

[olevetonahill]

Like I said this was tried back in the 70s
Lowered the age to 18 for Girls only, that dint go over so well so dropped it for both, that dint werk either so back to 21 ;)

[yermom]

i think the civil service idea is an interesting one, but i don't see what it has to do with drinking

making the drinking age 21 makes 18-20 year olds take stupid risks and drink faster than than they would if they could legally obtain and imbibe alcohol

if you are worried about them driving, you should give drunk driving offenses more teeth. impared drivers are much more of a problem that some kid drinking beers or smoking weed at home.

[oudavid1]

so is overage drinking. if you can moderate drinking, and not get yourself and others in a mess, I don't care how old you are.

but we both agree the older they are, the better chance at solid decision making skills they have and the more they have to lose.

[TitoMorelli]

But no one gets peer pressured to die for their country, or at least not as much as drinking. Everybody wants to drink. Drinking gets you laid a lot more than serving does.



I think it matters. 18 is way lower than 21.

So now you're arguing for lowering the drinking age?

[oudavid1]

So now you're arguing for lowering the drinking age?

hahahaha no. Im a republican catholic, I do not endorse underage/premarital sex.

[AlboSooner]

edited for FAIL

[yermom]

hahahaha no. Im a republican catholic, I do not endorse underage/premarital sex.

big government to protect us all from going to hell

the neo-con way

[yermom]

we would both agree that this post makes a different premise. you are essentially talking about age related probabilities now. that's a whole different issue, don't you agree?

I was merely responding to your earlier premise which was "underage drinking is a problem." I said, so is overage drinking. The real problem is lack of moderation, and getting yourself and others in a mess, for example like being drunk and driving.

We would both agree that if people moderated, it would be best for all.

are you really responding to the quoted post?

[StoopTroup]

i think the civil service idea is an interesting one, but i don't see what it has to do with drinking


They need to hook up with a fine assed Serviceman or Woman to get their freek on as they don't have any ID to buy the stuff.

If they want to get drunk.....they are gonna have to make their own off of the youtubes.

9tWZAH1BuD0

You want to go out like normal folks? You'll need that Service ID.

[AlboSooner]

are you really responding to the quoted post?

I haven't had any coffee today. 'bout to make a run for it...

[yermom]

:D

[Aldebaran]

WOOOOOOOO!!! High-five!

You obliterated her!

This... Is the appropriate response.

What kind of jackass grandstands about debate victories on the internets? No one here has ever lost at anything.

[badger]

I think the drinking age was tied to highway funding, was it not? I think giving states could use the drinking age to barter for fair shares of funding, while states that receive more than they pay in (like Oklahoma, thanks Sen. Inhofe!) have absolutely no wiggle room on this issue. We badly need the road funding as anyone who has driven Oklahoma roads can attest to, and if it means making people be 21 before they can drink crappy 3.2 beer, so be it.

No, I don't like government funding tied to forcing state laws and stuff, but I really have no complaint about the drinking age thing.

[yermom]

that explains the states, not the feds

[soonerboomer93]

underage drinking is a problem. This would make it so much worse. But im also a non drinking. 99% of college students drink more than me.

you should start, it might help

(once you're old enough, not that I would promote underage drinking :D)

[soonerboomer93]

hahahaha no. Im a republican catholic, I do not endorse underage/premarital sex.

you should start, that might also help

[badger]

that explains the states, not the feds

Is it a federal law? I thought it was a state option, with federal highway dollars withheld if you don't comply.

[sappstuf]

Funny this came up, because I saw this article a couple of days ago.


Alaska state representative Bob Lynn (R., Anchorage) is asking the long overdue question: Why do we consider 18-year-olds old enough to join the military, to fight and die for our country, but not to have a drink with their friends before they ship out or while they’re home on leave? Lynn has introduced a bill that would allow anyone 18 years and older with a military ID to drink alcohol in Alaska.

The bill is already facing strong opposition from self-styled public-health advocates. However, the data indicate that the 21-minimum drinking age has not only done zero good, it may actually have done harm. In addition, an individual legally enjoys nearly all other rights of adulthood upon turning 18 — including the rights to vote, get married, and sign contracts. It is time to reduce the drinking age for all Americans.

In the early 1970s, with the passage of the 26th amendment (which lowered the voting age to 18), 29 states lowered their minimum legal drinking age to 18, 19, or 20 years old. Other states already allowed those as young as 18 to buy alcohol, such as Louisiana, New York, and Colorado. However, after some reports showed an increase in teenage traffic fatalities, some advocacy groups pushed for a higher drinking age. They eventually gained passage of the 1984 National Minimum Drinking Age Act, which lets Congress withhold 10 percent of a state’s federal highway funds if it sets its minimum legal drinking age below 21. (Alaska would reportedly lose up to $50 million a year if Lynn’s bill passes.)

By 1988, all states had raised their drinking age to 21. In the years since, the idea of lowering the drinking age has periodically returned to the public debate, but groups such as Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD) have been able to fight back attempts to change the law. (Louisiana briefly lowered its age limit in back to 18 in 1996, after the state Supreme Court ruled that the 21 limit was a form of age discrimination, but the court reversed that decision a few months later.)

It’s true that America has a problem with drinking: The rates of alcoholism and teenage problem drinking are far greater here than in Europe. Yet in most European countries, the drinking age is far lower than 21. Some, such as Italy, have no drinking age at all. The likely reason for the disparity is the way in which American teens are introduced to alcohol versus their European counterparts. While French or Italian children learn to think of alcohol as part of a meal, American teens learn to drink in the unmonitored environment of a basement or the backwoods with their friends. A 2009 studyby the National Institute on Drug Abuse, National Institute of Health, and U.S. Department of Health and Human Services concluded that 72 percent of graduating high-school seniors had already consumed alcohol.

The problem is even worse on college campuses, where there is an unspoken understanding between students, administrators, local law enforcement, and parents that renders drinking-age restrictions effectively moot as students drink alcohol at frat or house parties and in their dorm rooms. The result is dangerous, secret binge drinking. This unspoken agreement and the problems it creates led a group of college chancellors and presidents from around the nation to form the Amethyst Initiative, which proposes a reconsideration of the current drinking age.

Middlebury College president emeritus John M. McCardell, who is also a charter member of Presidents Against Drunk Driving, came out in favor of lowering the drinking age to 18 years old in a 2004 New York Times opinion article. “Our latter-day prohibitionists have driven drinking behind closed doors and underground,” he wrote. “Colleges should be given the chance to educate students, who in all other respects are adults, in the appropriate use of alcohol, within campus boundaries and out in the open.”

The most powerful argument, at least emotionally, for leaving the drinking age at 21 is that the higher age limit has prevented alcohol-related traffic fatalities. Such fatalities indeed decreased about 33 percent from 1988 to 1998 — but the trend is not restricted to the United States. In Germany, for example, where the drinking age is 16, alcohol-related fatalities decreased by 57 percent between 1975 and 1990. The most likely cause for the decrease in traffic fatalities is a combination of law enforcement, education, and advances in automobile-safety technologies such as airbags and roll cages.

In addition, statistics indicate that these fatalities may not even have been prevented but rather displaced by three years, and that fatalities might even have increased over the long run because of the reduced drinking age. In an award-winning study in 2010, University of Notre Dame undergraduate Dan Dirscherl found that banning the purchase of alcohol between the ages of 18 and 21 actually increased traffic fatalities of those between the ages of 18 and 24 by 3 percent. Dirscherl’s findings lend credence to the “experienced drinker” hypothesis, which holds that when people begin driving at 16 and gain confidence for five years before they are legally able to drink, they are more likely to overestimate their driving ability and have less understanding of how alcohol consumption affects their ability to drive.

Statistics aside, the drinking age in the U.S. is difficult to enforce and discriminatory toward adults between 18 and 21 years old. The current age limit has created a culture of hidden drinking and disrespect for the law. Regardless of whether an adult is in the military or a civilian, she ought to be treated as just that: an adult. If you are old and responsible enough to go to war, get married, vote, or sign a contract, then you are old and responsible enough to buy a bottle of beer and toast to living in a country that respects and protects individual rights. It is long past time the law caught up with that reality.

[KantoSooner]

underage drinking is a problem. This would make it so much worse. But im also a non drinking. 99% of college students drink more than me.

David, I am seriously wondering if you read. 'This would make it so much worse'. I just cited an example that refutes your point. Then you go on to identify yourself as unqualified to make a personal judgement on the issue. I can agree that underage drinking is not a fine thing all day long without agreeing with you that installing legal barbed wire is the way to address it.

You then later comment that you're Catholic and Republican as though that somehow implies that you wouldn't drink or have underaged sex. My God, lad! The biggest drunk *****- or bunghole-hounds on earth are Catholic priests. Nary a one of them has a dry dick these days. And Republican has nothing to do with social policy (well, in the last 20 years or so, it does, but social conservatism and the Republican party are uneasy bedfellows at best. Pun intended.)

Start examing your positions, dammit! I grow weary of your baseless assertions. Otherwise retreat to the card table in the game room. Oh, and know that, rant notwithstanding, we love you.

Excuse me, now, I must go get a load of soy sauce off to its new home. It's not romantic, but it pays the bills.

[yermom]

Is it a federal law? I thought it was a state option, with federal highway dollars withheld if you don't comply.

the federal policy is the reason the states have the laws they do, that's all i'm saying.

the mechanism isn't the issue. the issue is that adults are being denied things that other adults aren't, based on an arbitrary age requirement.

[oudavid1]

David, I am seriously wondering if you read. 'This would make it so much worse'. I just cited an example that refutes your point. Then you go on to identify yourself as unqualified to make a personal judgement on the issue. I can agree that underage drinking is not a fine thing all day long without agreeing with you that installing legal barbed wire is the way to address it.

You then later comment that you're Catholic and Republican as though that somehow implies that you wouldn't drink or have underaged sex. My God, lad! The biggest drunk *****- or bunghole-hounds on earth are Catholic priests. Nary a one of them has a dry dick these days. And Republican has nothing to do with social policy (well, in the last 20 years or so, it does, but social conservatism and the Republican party are uneasy bedfellows at best. Pun intended.)

Start examing your positions, dammit! I grow weary of your baseless assertions. Otherwise retreat to the card table in the game room. Oh, and know that, rant notwithstanding, we love you.

Excuse me, now, I must go get a load of soy sauce off to its new home. It's not romantic, but it pays the bills.

ha, i learned a lot right here. And thanks for that gander at what you think i meant by Catholic. ha!

[PrideTrombone]

hahahaha no. Im a republican catholic, I do not endorse underage/premarital sex.

Anyone else think this is a SicEm troll?

[SanJoaquinSooner]

some things, I guess, are best left done illegally.

[sooner59]

some things, I guess, are best left done illegally.

Really....want....to.....make a comment....yet must resist....threadjacking. :P

[Half a Hundred]

Mandatory 21 should have gone the way of the 55 mph speed limit. Just enhance penalties for crimes committed while drunk driving, and we're good.

[OU_Sooners75]

My 2 cents:

18, If you can die for your country, you should be able to drink in your country.

18, can buy cigarettes
18, can vote
18, can die for our country
18 can drive
18, can legally get married without Parents Permission.
18, Cannot drink alcohol legally.

[OU_Sooners75]

some things, I guess, are best left done illegally.

Kind of like immigration? :pop:

[OU_Sooners75]

Anyone else think this is a SicEm troll?

What is your obsession with Sic'em?

[Mongo]

MORE LEGALY DRUNK 18 YEAR OLD CHICKS WITH DADDY ISSUES FTW!!!

[yermom]

My 2 cents:

18, only if you went to Boot camp for one of the Military departments. If you can die for your country, you should be able to drink in your country.

18, can buy cigarettes
18, can vote
18, can die for our country
18 can drive
18, can legally get married without Parents Permission.
18, Cannot drink alcohol legally.

so they aren't mature enough to make decisions regarding buying and drinking alcohol, but they can decide it's a good idea to sell their soul to the military?

[Peach Fuzz]

Having turned 21 almost a year ago, I can tell you first hand that your opinion will change. I've actually partied 'less' and enjoy just being in a restaurant and trying out something new just because I can. Looking back, I don't think 18 year olds should be able to drink 'publicly'.

[yermom]

i drank less once i turned 21, because it wasn't a big deal and i knew it was there if i wanted it

that was almost 14 years ago...

[Mongo]

i drank less once i turned 21, because it wasn't a big deal and i knew it was there if i wanted it

that was almost 14 years ago...

cool, but what about nailing drunk young ones? dont **** block us

[yermom]

as far as i know that's not legal either way, maybe it depends on the state

but really, if she's 18, she should be legal to drink whatever she wants and open her legs to miscreants such as yourself if that's what she's into

[Mongo]

lets get roofies legal. it is much safer than booze

[royalfan5]

Man, I remember the mild inconviences of getting beer when I was under 21. I sure was deterred.

[OU_Sooners75]

so they aren't mature enough to make decisions regarding buying and drinking alcohol, but they can decide it's a good idea to sell their soul to the military?


Exactly....LOL

I worded it wrong....18 since they can join the military and die for this country...:O

[Adrian]

I wonder if the poor girl is in therapy after being destroyed by David...

[sooner59]

I watched about 3 minutes of a movie earlier where some girl got destroyed. I wonder if THAT was David...

[hawaii 5-0]

Still got that '3.2 beer thing' in Okieville?


I don't even try explaining it to non-Okies. They'd just laugh.




5-0



Trump/Polecat Slim 2012

[OU_Sooners75]

Still got that '3.2 beer thing' in Okieville?


I don't even try explaining it to non-Okies. They'd just laugh.




5-0



Trump/Polecat Slim 2012


Yeah, it is pretty ridiculous. Oklahoma may as well be dry! They are throwing a fit about that drink Blast!

LOL

However, we are not the only state with 3.2 beer. Colorado, Minnesota, Kansas, and Utah all have 3.2 beer as well.

The difference is, they can sell high point beer cold....Oklahoma has to sell it at room temp.


BTW, 5-0, if you go to the userCP, edit signature, you wouldn't have to type:

5-0



Trump/Polecat Slim 2012everytime you post. :D

[yankee]

but we both agree the older they are, the better chance at solid decision making skills they have and the more they have to lose.

I feel like the maturity gained between the years of 18 and 21 can be either significant or extremely minimal, at best.

[olevetonahill]

My 2 cents:

18, If you can die for your country, you should be able to drink in your country.

18, can buy cigarettes
18, can vote
18, can die for our country
18 can drive
18, can legally get married without Parents Permission.
18, Cannot drink alcohol legally.


so they aren't mature enough to make decisions regarding buying and drinking alcohol, but they can decide it's a good idea to sell their soul to the military?

I Like ya both
But this is some of the dumbest shat Ive read:rolleyes:

[olevetonahill]

Still got that '3.2 beer thing' in Okieville?


I don't even try explaining it to non-Okies. They'd just laugh.




5-0



Trump/Polecat Slim 2012

Cause yer dumb as a rock also when it comes to 3,.2 :rolleyes: :pop:

[KC//CRIMSON]

http://daniwao.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/wizard-of-oz.jpg

Silence! The Great Wizard of Wister has spoken!

[hawaii 5-0]

I had a great aunt in Howe, near Wister.


5-0



Trump/ Bilbo Baggins 2012

[olevetonahill]

I had a great aunt in Howe, near Wister.


5-0



Trump/ Bilbo Baggins 2012

You "HAD" ?
is she dead?

[yermom]

I Like ya both
But this is some of the dumbest shat Ive read:rolleyes:

what part do you take issue with?

someone is mature enough at this arbitrary age to hand him an M-16, but something really dangerous like a Budweiser he needs to wait 3 years for.

[SpankyNek]

underage drinking is a problem. This would make it so much worse. But im also a non drinking. 99% of college students drink more than me.

I am still trying to figure out how lowering the drinking age to 18 would make the problem of UNDERAGE drinking "so much worse."

Perhaps someone that professes to be astute in the art of rhetorical forensics should choose their words more carefully.

As has been mentioned by several others, the (primarily American) problem of binge drinking is exacerbated by its illegality.

[StoopTroup]

Phil? He posted again?


http://daniwao.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/wizard-of-oz.jpg

Silence! The Great Wizard of Wister has spoken!

[olevetonahill]

what part do you take issue with?

someone is mature enough at this arbitrary age to hand him an M-16, but something really dangerous like a Budweiser he needs to wait 3 years for.

The part where MAYBE 2% of all 18 year olds ever have to pick up a weapon and then only after they have gone thru some hard training


Comparing an 18 year old Soldier to a run of the mill 18 year old dumas is just dumb.

[MR2-Sooner86]

Alright, which do you feel is more dangerous?

http://chicagoist.com/attachments/chicagoist_roland/beer_mug.jpg

or...

http://cdn.wn.com/pd/ff/6e/dbd62b34eb15682afb12aaad748f_grande.jpg

Sam Huff, 18, was killed this weekend in an explosion while driving in a convoy around Baghdad. (http://www.kold.com/story/3227527/18-year-old-soldier-killed-in-iraq?redirected=true)

An 18-year-old soldier from Columbus died Monday from injuries suffered in an ambush by Iraqi insurgents outside Mosul. (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/3235905.html)


Just by looking glancing over this thread I bet I know the answer. It goes something to the tune of, "thanks for your service and sacrific son but I'll be damned if you try to go into that bar."

I mean we can ignore the facts like European countires, where the drinking age is 18, had a bigger drop off in drinking and driving than the United States. (http://drinkingage.procon.org/sourcefiles/SweedlerWorldwideDecline2000.pdf) We can also throw out the argument that keeping the drinking age at 21 just shifts traffic deaths from teens to young adults (http://drinkingage.procon.org/sourcefiles/DeeBehavioralPoliciesAndTeenTrafficSafety.pdf) because that ruins a perfectly good argument.

[yermom]

The part where MAYBE 2% of all 18 year olds ever have to pick up a weapon and then only after they have gone thru some hard training


Comparing an 18 year old Soldier to a run of the mill 18 year old dumas is just dumb.

i'm talking about before he becomes a soldier at 18.

i'm comparing the decision to enlist vs. buying a beer.

he is supposedly too young to be able to deal with the consequences involved with making one of those decisions but not the other.

[OutlandTrophy]

I blame the Baptists

[Leroy Lizard]

The most powerful argument, at least emotionally, for leaving the drinking age at 21 is that the higher age limit has prevented alcohol-related traffic fatalities.

At least emotionally?

[delhalew]

Without reading past the first page, the current drinking age slows down high school kids a little bit. If it were 18, the older of the Seniors could supply the entire school with booze, and they would because kids don't understand consequence.

[pphilfran]

My 2 cents:

18, If you can die for your country, you should be able to drink in your country.

18, can buy cigarettes
18, can vote
18, can die for our country
18 can drive
18, can legally get married without Parents Permission.
18, Cannot drink alcohol legally.

This fairly well sums it up...

[delhalew]

This fairly well sums it up...

Not really. This is a nation that experimented with prohibiting alcohol completely.

[pphilfran]

Without reading past the first page, the current drinking age slows down high school kids a little bit. If it were 18, the older of the Seniors could supply the entire school with booze, and they would because kids don't understand consequence.

Somehow they all magically become responsible on their 18th birthday?

I wouldn't want to see the age reduced from 21 but if we can put an 18 year old into battle or put them on trial for murder then they should be able to tip a beer...

[pphilfran]

Not really. This is a nation that experimented with prohibiting alcohol completely.

You live in Marlow? Like the rain?

[delhalew]

You live in Marlow? Like the rain?

I'm nearly home. If you tell me it's raining, I will kiss you.

[S.PadreIsl.Sooner]

I had it pretty good. Beer was 18 until right after I turned 21. Campus Corner was pretty hopping. Up The Alley had some good bands there. The Deli was a sandwich shop. Kinda miss those days.

[delhalew]

Somehow they all magically become responsible on their 18th birthday?

I wouldn't want to see the age reduced from 21 but if we can put an 18 year old into battle or put them on trial for murder then they should be able to tip a beer...

it was actually my point that they DON'T suddenly become responsible. Also, that keeping the age were it is, isnt about protecting 18 yr olds. It is about protecting 15 yr olds.

[pphilfran]

I'm nearly home. If you tell me it's raining, I will kiss you.

Cloudy...light mist...

[pphilfran]

it was actually my point that they DON'T suddenly become responsible. Also, that keeping the age were it is, isnt about protecting 18 yr olds. It is about protecting 15 yr olds.


I agree...but...being able to go into the army at 18 keeps nagging at me....

[delhalew]

Cloudy...light mist...

If we don't get a real downpour soon, we are straight up ****ed. I been doing my rain dance...must be something wrong with my technique.

[pphilfran]

If we don't get a real downpour soon, we are straight up ****ed. I been doing my rain dance...must be something wrong with my technique.

I think you got some decent rain last night...Duncan got rain...

[delhalew]

I agree...but...being able to go into the army at 18 keeps nagging at me....

I hear you. I normally argue for your side. I'm not sure if I picked the counterpoint for the sake of discussion, or if I really believe that now that I have children.

[hawaii 5-0]

You "HAD" ?
is she dead?


Yeah, 'bout 30 years ago. A great place to visit with a big front porch with swing. She also had a barnyard out back with critters. It was fun checkin' fer aigs.

Fond memories tho she could be cranky at times. She was raised Arkie.



5-0



Trump/Buckwheat 2012

[delhalew]

I think you got some decent rain last night...Duncan got rain...

Sweet. I need to change my info. I technically have a Duncan address now, even though I'm outside city limits.

[OU_Sooners75]

I Like ya both
But this is some of the dumbest shat Ive read:rolleyes:


So you think if a young man of 18 can die for this country he shouldn't be able to drink?

[OU_Sooners75]

Somehow they all magically become responsible on their 18th birthday?

I wouldn't want to see the age reduced from 21 but if we can put an 18 year old into battle or put them on trial for murder then they should be able to tip a beer...


I can tell you this much...when I turned 21, drinking wasn't as fun anymore because it was legal. I could walk into any store that had beer or alcohol and buy it without worry. I also tended to slow way down on drinking when I became legal age.

Not sure what my point is exactly, but when I was 18-21 I was out partying a lot and so was quite a few of my friends. We were doing so illegally.

I also know some 18 year olds that are more responsible than some 21+ year olds.

[OU_Sooners75]

it was actually my point that they DON'T suddenly become responsible. Also, that keeping the age were it is, isnt about protecting 18 yr olds. It is about protecting 15 yr olds.


How is it protecting 15 year olds?

When does the parent step in and do something?

[royalfan5]

it was actually my point that they DON'T suddenly become responsible. Also, that keeping the age were it is, isnt about protecting 18 yr olds. It is about protecting 15 yr olds.

Since it isn't terribly hard for a motivated 18 year old to get booze now, I'm sure they are already sharing it with 15 year olds they want to bang. All the currently law does is put another middle man in there.

[OU_Sooners75]

If this is about 15 year old kids...then it is time for parents to stop looking at society to raise their kids. It is time for parents to be, well, parents!

[royalfan5]

If this is about 15 year old kids...then it is time for parents to stop looking at society to raise their kids. It is time for parents to be, well, parents!
besides they are already smoking the reefer anyway, or perhaps huffing paint.

[delhalew]

You made my point. It is work for an 18 year old to buy beer. Only a percentage of highly motivated kids will be successful, as opposed to every 18 year old being able to buy whisky or host a keg party.

I'm not saying one way or the other. I'm just saying it's easy to see the other side.

If a law is to be changed, I want to buy cold beer. I am a grown assed man, I spend my entire life working, and I'm in a gawddamn hurry. I could give a damn if an 18 year old has to put up with the same **** I did when I was his age.

[OU_Sooners75]

You made my point. It is work for an 18 year old to buy beer. Only a percentage of highly motivated kids will be successful, as opposed to every 18 year old being able to buy whisky or host a keg party.

I'm not saying one way or the other. I'm just saying it's easy to see the other side.

If a law is to be changed, I want to buy cold beer. I am a grown assed man, I spend my entire life working, and I'm in a gawddamn hurry. I could give a damn if an 18 year old has to put up with the same **** I did when I was his age.


Soooo, you didn't drink before 21?

[royalfan5]

You made my point. It is work for an 18 year old to buy beer. Only a percentage of highly motivated kids will be successful, as opposed to every 18 year old being able to buy whisky or host a keg party.

I'm not saying one way or the other. I'm just saying it's easy to see the other side.

If a law is to be changed, I want to buy cold beer. I am a grown assed man, I spend my entire life working, and I'm in a gawddamn hurry. I could give a damn if an 18 year old has to put up with the same **** I did when I was his age.

It must be way harder to find booze in Oklahoma if it is difficult for 18 year old to find booze. Of course, Nebraska does lead the Union in underage drinking.

[Peach Fuzz]

well... no ****. What else do kids do in Nebraska besides drink/farm? :D

[royalfan5]

well... no ****. What else do kids do in Nebraska besides drink/farm? :D Meth and smoke ditchweed.

[Peach Fuzz]

I was gonna throw that in there... but thats here too :(

[olevetonahill]

So you think if a young man of 18 can die for this country he shouldn't be able to drink?

Trust me an 18 year old is gonna be able to get the booze no matter if hes in the Army or living in Sec.8 housing.;)

[silverwheels]

Having just spent a week in New Orleans, I'd rather see liquor stores open on Sunday and past 9 PM. And liquor/wine sold in convenience stores and supermarkets. And bars open past 2 on Fridays/Saturdays.

[sooner59]

I think it should be lowered to age 16. If you are old enough to drive , might as well be drunk. That or raise it to 35. If you are old enough to be POTUS, might as well be drunk.

[StoopTroup]

So you think if a young man of 18 can die for this country he shouldn't be able to drink?

I think people ask the wrong question.

Are they fighting for their Country?

YES. They start fighting for their Country at 18. By the time they finish their commitment they are 22 and can drink.

or

NO. Then they need to STFU and go back to hittin that bong.

[Mjcpr]

I always love that "fighting for our country" argument. If a guy is a soldier and wants to buy a drink or beer or whatever, I have no problem with it....sold, with a valid military ID. The other slack jawed yokels that want to pony up on that soldier's back so they can get their drink on over the weekend in between Social Studies and Freshman Orientation? **** them.

[texaspokieokie]

You "HAD" ?
is she dead?

it wasn't his aunt, but she was GREAT !!!

[OU_Sooners75]

I always love that "fighting for our country" argument. If a guy is a soldier and wants to buy a drink or beer or whatever, I have no problem with it....sold, with a valid military ID. The other slack jawed yokels that want to pony up on that soldier's back so they can get their drink on over the weekend in between Social Studies and Freshman Orientation? **** them.


But it is okay for a 21 year old college student to do it every night and weekend simply because they are of age?

Age is but a number. Some 21 old year olds are very irresponsible and some 18 year olds are very responsible.

At 17.5 an American boy has to turn in his draft registration. At 18 he can go and die for this country.

If he is old enough to die for this nation (voluntarily or not), then he should be old enough to walk into a store and buy a case of natty light or a bottle of Crown!

[OutlandTrophy]

are you saying the age should be raised?

[OU_Sooners75]

are you saying the age should be raised?

Comprehension issues?

[OutlandTrophy]

Not at all. But I am having trouble figuring out what your argument really is. It's very fractured and not well thought out.

The 21 year old doesn't drrink on the back of the American soldier. He does so legally. It's currently legal for him todrink. I'm not sure why you would need to include that age group in your argument that 18 year olds should be able to drink?

[OU_Sooners75]

Not at all. But I am having trouble figuring out what your argument really is. It's very fractured and not well thought out.

The 21 year old doesn't drrink on the back of the American soldier. He does so legally. It's currently legal for him todrink. I'm not sure why you would need to include that age group in your argument that 18 year olds should be able to drink?


Yeaaaaaaaaah.....I'm going to need you to read it again.

Let me help you:


But it is okay for a 21 year old college student to do it every night and weekend simply because they are of age?

Age is but a number. Some 21 old year olds are very irresponsible and some 18 year olds are very responsible.

At 17.5 an American boy has to turn in his draft registration. At 18 he can go and die for this country.

If he is old enough to die for this nation (voluntarily or not), then he should be old enough to walk into a store and buy a case of natty light or a bottle of Crown!

[OutlandTrophy]

With age being just a number are you advocating making the drinking age 12? 16? 18?

Will there be some sort of a test to take instead of an age limit?

[OutlandTrophy]

But it is okay for a 21 year old college student to do it every night and weekend simply because they are of age? Yes. Stupid question.
Age is but a number. Some 21 old year olds are very irresponsible and some 18 year olds are very responsible.
OK, what's your point? Some 55 year olds are not responsible.
At 17.5 an American boy has to turn in his draft registration. At 18 he can go and die for this country.
Correct, what's your point?
If he is old enough to die for this nation (voluntarily or not), then he should be old enough to walk into a store and buy a case of natty light or a bottle of Crown!
Why?


see response in red

[sooner59]

Some 17 year olds are smokin hawt.....and very mature for their age. We should lower tappin dat azz to 17. Who's with me?

:pop:

[OU_Sooners75]

see response in red

Seriously? You cannot see the WHY in my post?

WHY? I thought I made it pretty clear...but I guess some are just feeble...

Why? Because if a young man in this nation, according to national law, is old enough to die for this country, they should be old enough to drink legally.

And you're right, there are 55 year old that are not responsible. There are irresponsible people in every age group.

[OutlandTrophy]

see, I knew your argument was not well thought out.

try again, JV.

[OU_Sooners75]

see, I knew your argument was not well thought out.

try again, JV.


Yeaaaaaah...I'm going to need you to stop thinking.

[OutlandTrophy]

Junior Varsity logic.

[OU_Sooners75]

Junior Varsity logic.

Says the beautiful mind of SF.com! :rolleyes:

Jpoki4wBwtA

[OutlandTrophy]

I like the "bbbbut some guys join the military so I think I should be treated just like I did even though I would never join the military" argument.

You probably didn't join the military, hell, it doesn't appear that you graduated from a University somewhere but you want to use both as part of your argument? Weak.

[OU_Sooners75]

I like the "bbbbut some guys join the military so I think I should be treated just like I did even though I would never join the military" argument.

You probably didn't join the military, hell, it doesn't appear that you graduated from a University somewhere but you want to use both as part of your argument? Weak.

Nope, I didn't join the military. Grew up a Military brat and have family and friends currently in the military.

But hey, lets make this **** personal, since you are a ****ing idiot when it comes to those that have a dissenting opinion.


Quick, make sure you report this post!

[OutlandTrophy]

that is a valid argument

[OU_Sooners75]

Work on your goatee and gain some more weight and then let's try this again, shall we?

For being such a superior mind, you sure concentrate on the feeble.

Keep goin troll.


Good thing I captured that before you edited it huh? Nice edit btw!

[OutlandTrophy]

I never claimed to have a superior mind. I've simply asked you to expand on your idea yet you have been unable to do so.

I'm sorry I've been asking tough questions, I had no idea they were tough.

[OutlandTrophy]

For being such a superior mind, you sure concentrate on the feeble.
Keep goin troll.


Good thing I captured that before you edited it huh? Nice edit btw!

are you saying that I've been concentrating on you?

it's just a joke. haha

[OU_Sooners75]

I never claimed to have a superior mind. I've simply asked you to expand on your idea yet you have been unable to do so.

I'm sorry I've been asking tough questions, I had no idea they were tough.


And as I said, I gave you the reason why, "If an 18 year is required by law to sign up for the draft, then he should be old enough to drink alcohol legally," not my fault you do not like the dissenting opinion.

But keep it up...it is working for you!

[OutlandTrophy]

we have a draft?

TIA

[OU_Sooners75]

are you saying that I've been concentrating on you?

it's just a joke. haha


It goes beyond a joke when you make it personal.

Work on your goatee and gain some more weight and then let's try this again, shall we?

[OutlandTrophy]

name three people that have been drafted in your lifetime.

GO!

[OutlandTrophy]

It goes beyond a joke when you make it personal.

maybe you shouldn't call people ******* idiots?

:pop:

[OutlandTrophy]

name three people that have been drafted in your lifetime.

GO!

OK, name two if three is too tough to do.

[OU_Sooners75]

we have a draft?

TIA

Draft registration (Selective Service) is required by all males that are within 6 months of turning 18 years old.

If they fail to do so they:

Men who do not register could be prosecuted and, if convicted, fined up to $250,000 and/or serve up to five years in prison. In addition, men who fail to register with Selective Service before turning age 26, even if not prosecuted, will become ineligible for:

Student Financial Aid - including Pell Grants, College Work Study, Guaranteed Student/Plus Loans, and National Direct Student Loans.
U.S. Citizenship - if the man first arrived in the U.S. before his 26th birthday.
Federal Job Training - The Job Training Partnership Act (JTPA) offers programs that can train young men for jobs in auto mechanics and other skills. This program is only open to those men who register with Selective Service.
Federal Jobs - men born after December 31, 1959 must be registered to be eligible for jobs in the Executive Branch of the Federal government and the U.S. Postal Service.This does not include what individual states do when you fail to register.

But hey...

[sooner59]

name three people that have been drafted in your lifetime.

GO!

Sam Adams, Jacob Leinenkugel, Henry Weinhard....

Should I keep going? It's legit....google them if you want.

[OU_Sooners75]

name three people that have been drafted in your lifetime.

GO!


My father was drafted to Vietnam, when I was an infant.
Family friend Jim was drafted to Vietnam at the same time
There is two that I know of...I am sure there were more that I do not know of.

[OutlandTrophy]

Sam Adams, Jacob Leinenkugel, Henry Weinhard....

Should I keep going? It's legit....google them if you want.

:D

[OU_Sooners75]

maybe you shouldn't call people ******* idiots?

:pop:


Calling someone a ****ing idiot...only when you say this ****:


You probably didn't join the military, hell, it doesn't appear that you graduated from a University somewhere but you want to use both as part of your argument? Weak.Don't start being personal and the ****ing idiot wont be posted.

[OutlandTrophy]

Calling someone a ****ing idiot...only when you say this ****:

Don't start being personal and the ****ing idiot wont be posted.

Dude, it's OK that you never joined the military non never graduated from college. You shouldn't be so hard on yourself.

[OutlandTrophy]

My father was drafted to Vietnam, when I was an infant.
Family friend Jim was drafted to Vietnam at the same time
There is two that I know of...I am sure there were more that I do not know of.

Sorry, I was assuming you were born in 1975 from your name on here.

[OU_Sooners75]

Dude, it's OK that you never joined the military non never graduated from college. You shouldn't be so hard on yourself.


non never?

And you want to question my education level?

[OU_Sooners75]

Sorry, I was assuming you were born in 1975 from your name on here.

You know what they say about assuming.

[OutlandTrophy]

typo, nor is what I should have typed but the spirit of the post remains the same.

[OutlandTrophy]

I think you are lying about your dad being drafted when you were an infant.

[OU_Sooners75]

typo, nor is what I should have typed but the spirit of the post remains the same.

Here, let the guy that you assume never graduated college fix it for ya:

original:

Dude, it's OK that you never joined the military non never graduated from college. You shouldn't be so hard on yourself.corrected:

Dude, it's OK that you never joined the military nor graduated from college. You shouldn't be so hard on yourself.I'm sure you could say, "nor ever graduated" but I am not an English major, so who knows for sure.

Keep up the double to triple negatives in the sentence structure.

[OU_Sooners75]

I think you are lying about your dad being drafted when you were an infant.


Good for you. Keep thinking it.

[bluedogok]

I also know some 18 year olds that are more responsible than some 51+ year olds.
FTFY :D

[OU_Sooners75]

FTFY :D
:cool:

[Mongo]

Is "Donkey Punch" still serving our military?

[bluedogok]

Having just spent a week in New Orleans, I'd rather see liquor stores open on Sunday and past 9 PM. And liquor/wine sold in convenience stores and supermarkets. And bars open past 2 on Fridays/Saturdays.
That is a New Orleans thing, they are a special case as the much of Louisiana does not have the same kind of rules. I spent a summer working at Fort Polk (Leesville, Louisiana) and all the bars and places that served alcohol closed up at midnight on Saturday night. The convenience stores locked the beer coolers and put brown paper up in the windows from midnight to midnight on Sunday. There was a 24 hour frozen drink stand just outside of town where you filled up plastic milk jugs and took it home with whatever frozen drink you wanted, it was closed from midnight to midnight on Sunday.

[silverwheels]

That is a New Orleans thing, they are a special case as the much of Louisiana does not have the same kind of rules. I spent a summer working at Fort Polk (Leesville, Louisiana) and all the bars and places that served alcohol closed up at midnight on Saturday night. The convenience stores locked the beer coolers and put brown paper up in the windows from midnight to midnight on Sunday. There was a 24 hour frozen drink stand just outside of town where you filled up plastic milk jugs and took it home with whatever frozen drink you wanted, it was closed from midnight to midnight on Sunday.

Yeah, I know, but it made me think of how lame and behind the times Oklahoma is with its liquor laws. Bourbon St. is a different animal, though, so I can't compare anything to that.

[StoopTroup]

OK, name two if three is too tough to do.

Here's a good place to look for information on the draft.

http://www.sss.gov/Default.htm

988 folks from Oklahoma died in the Vietnam War. It's not difficult to name 3 people.


The days of the year were represented by the numbers from 1 to 365 written on slips of paper. The slips were placed in separate plastic capsules that were mixed in a shoebox and then dumped into a deep glass jar. Capsules were drawn from the jar one at a time.

The first day number drawn was 257 (September 14), so all registrants with that birthday were assigned lottery number 1. All men of draft age (born 1944 to 1950) who shared a birthdate would be called to serve at once. In fact the first 195 birthdates were later called to serve in order 1 to 195. The last birthdate called was September 24 (lottery number 195).
1969 draft lottery scatterplot. A scatterplot of the days of the year (horizontal axis) and their ranks (vertical axis) shows a noticeable absence of days in December with high ranks (later induction).

On the same day, December 1, a second lottery was held to construct a random permutation of the 26 letters of the alphabet. Among men with the same birthdate (any year 1944 to 1950), the order of induction was determined by the permutation ranks of the first letters of their last, first, and middle names. Anyone with initials "JJJ" would have been first within the shared birthdate; anyone with initials "VVV" would have been last. (SSS http://www.sss.gov/lotter1.htm)

Draft lotteries were conducted again in 1970 (for those born in 1951) and 1971 to 1975 (for 1952 to 1956 births). The draft numbers issued 1972 were never used to call for induction into service, because the last call was December 7 and authority to induct expired June 30, 1973. The 1972 to 1975 lottery numbers were used to call some men born 1953 to 1956 for physical exams.(SSS http://www.sss.gov/lotter1.htm, "The APN (highest number) called for a physical was 215 for tables 1970 through 1976.")


According to the Veteran's Administration, 9.2 million men served in the military between 1964 and 1975. Nearly 3.5 million men served in the Vietnam theater of operations. From a pool of approximately 27 million, the draft raised 2,215,000 men for military service during the Vietnam era. It has also been credited with "encouraging" many of the 8.7 million "volunteers" to join rather than risk being drafted

[C&CDean]

Y'all just ignore 1TC. He's prolly trying to get some, and his new bride ain't having any part of it. Of course who could blame her?

[OU_Sooners75]

Y'all just ignore 1TC. He's prolly trying to get some, and his new bride ain't having any part of it. Of course who could blame her?
:pop:

[OU_Sooners75]

typo, nor is what I should have typed but the spirit of the post remains the same.

BTW, what size Texas socks do you wear?

[Mongo]

Y'all just ignore 1TC. He's prolly trying to get some, and his new bride ain't having any part of it. Of course who could blame her?

pffffft, they have one child together. that is proof he didnt go ghey once.

[C&CDean]

Once...

[bigfatjerk]

How about we lower the drinking age, but raise the driving age to 21 to counter that.

[OutlandTrophy]

Dean owns the Texas socks, not me.

[OU_Sooners75]

Dean owns the Texas socks, not me.

Word has it, you left them with him though. :eek:

[OutlandTrophy]

They didn't fit me so I gave them to a guy that I knew would provide a good home for them.

[OU_Sooners75]

They didn't fit me so I gave them to a guy that I knew would provide a good home for them.

Question...why in the world would you buy a pair of Texass socks in the first place? :confused:

[OutlandTrophy]

I didn't

[Mongo]

I didn't

but your fish net heels in the air are a thing of beauty

[OutlandTrophy]

but your fish net heels in the air are a thing of beauty

are you trying to get into my pants?

[Mongo]

yes?

[OutlandTrophy]

you on your way over?

[Flagstaffsooner]

The part where MAYBE 2% of all 18 year olds ever have to pick up a weapon and then only after they have gone thru some hard training


Comparing an 18 year old Soldier to a run of the mill 18 year old dumas is just dumb.Reminds me of 1977. I was at Stapleton airport, Denver. A buddy and I were in uniform and went to the bar. I was 21 but Andy was 19 and they refused to serve him. A guy at the bar says, "If he is old enough to serve his country he is old enough to drink". At that point everybody in the bar bought a drink and put it on our table.:D

[SoonerofAlabama]

It doesn't matter. Underage drinking will take place with pre-teens to 17-year-olds no matter what the drinking age is.

[StoopTroup]

I wonder if Mongo reemed him out?

[StoopTroup]

pffffft, they have one child together. that is proof he didnt go ghey once.

http://images.mylot.com/userImages/images/postphotos/1286183.jpg

[Sooner_Tuf]

a girl in my speech class had this idea for her speech.

I destroyed her after she was done.

Does anyone think this is logical?

It should be about 15 or 16. Kids can't wait until they are adults to learn to be responsible.

[Sooner_Tuf]

Some 17 year olds are smokin hawt.....and very mature for their age. We should lower tappin dat azz to 17. Who's with me?

:pop:

Age of consent in Oklahoma is 16. Get after it.

[SoonerofAlabama]

They won't learn to be responsible. They will go harder each time to find the limits of their body until there body can't handle any more. Something will go wrong. Either they drink too much and get alchohol poisoning or they drink too much and they drive their vehicle, get into a wreck, and hurt or injure themselves or another person.

[Sooner_Tuf]

They won't learn to be responsible. They will go harder each time to find the limits of their body until there body can't handle any more. Something will go wrong. Either they drink too much and get alchohol poisoning or they drink too much and they drive their vehicle, get into a wreck, and hurt or injure themselves or another person.

How is that worse than now?

It was lower when I was young and it wasn't enforced at all where I grew up. We didn't have a lot of problems.

[SoonerofAlabama]

I am saying it won't matter. The drinking age will never matter to pre-teens and kids under 18.

[soonerhubs]

Teenagers think with a different part of the brain. They take more risks than the average human. If it were up to me, someone who studies human development, I would leave the drinking age where it is, and increase the driving age to 18 years.

There are far too many youngsters who leave this life too soon because of needless risks.

[yermom]

Then you shouldn't give them guns or voting rights either.

[soonerhubs]

Then you shouldn't give them guns or voting rights either.

Well... As an extension, that may be correct, but I didn't want to get everyone riled up. :D

[Sooner_Tuf]

Then you shouldn't give them guns or voting rights either.

As second class citizens we should abort them. Then they will never get killed :confused:

[yermom]

Well... As an extension, that may be correct, but I didn't want to get everyone riled up. :D

i just don't buy it. the longer you treat children like children, the longer they will be children

[Eielson]

18 year olds do not have any difficulty getting their hands on alcohol. If they don't drink, it's because they don't want to.

[soonerhubs]

i just don't buy it. the longer you treat children like children, the longer they will be children

Interesting theory. Cultural context is definitely a huge confound that shouldn't be ignored.

Autonomy granting in and of itself is good, but I think there's more to socially responsible development.

[yermom]

why don't Europeans have the issues we do with drinking?

[bluedogok]

Teenagers think with a different part of the brain. They take more risks than the average human. If it were up to me, someone who studies human development, I would leave the drinking age where it is, and increase the driving age to 18 years.

There are far too many youngsters who leave this life too soon because of needless risks.
Life is full of risk assessment no matter what age you are, most are either risk averse or risk takers. Every morning you wake up there is an endless line od decisions to be made that are based on risk assessment. There is no way to effectively take risk out of life unless you stay at home and do nothing but then that has its own set of risks as well. EVERYONE makes stupid decisions no matter the age, I know plenty of people who take more risks at 40 or 50 than they ever would have at 18 and in many cases their behavior has become more extreme as they get older. Then you also have those who try to eliminate any risk out of life, to me that is not living.

Trying to protect everyone from risk is an exercise in futility and the thousands upon thousands of laws on the books are proof that more laws really does nothing to prevent behavior in most people.


why don't Europeans have the issues we do with drinking?For the most part the Puritans and their Puritanical attitudes left on the Mayflower.

The UK does have issues with binge drinking but then they also are the closest to those same puritanical attitudes of the US in comparison to other European countries.

[soonerhubs]

We're not talking about the existence of risk, we're talking about reducing probabilities of risk. With all due respect, the demographic surveys I've reviewed would refute most anecdotes.

I highly doubt increasing the driving age by 2 years would suck the "life" out of the populations of developing children, but then again, I've not done that research. I can suggest that making the legal driving age higher would decreases the probability of many fatality automobile accidents. I know many libertarians are against this, and I respect that.

[yermom]

somehow driving gets attached to drinking.

16 was bad enough to wait for driving. i'd be for more stringent requirements when it comes to getting a license though. just being 16 or 18 doesn't make you a better or observant driver. it should be harder to get and keep a license IMO.

it's also entirely too socially acceptable to drink and drive, regardless of age.

[soonerhubs]

somehow driving gets attached to drinking.

16 was bad enough to wait for driving. i'd be for more stringent requirements when it comes to getting a license though. just being 16 or 18 doesn't make you a better or observant driver. it should be harder to get and keep a license IMO.

it's also entirely too socially acceptable to drink and drive, regardless of age.

I'm supportive of more graduated license legislation.


...and yes, it's far too socially acceptable.

[StoopTroup]

I'm in support of allowing folks to drive their zero-turn mower up for a 30 pack.

RNPxIibhcKY

[Sooner_Tuf]

somehow driving gets attached to drinking.

16 was bad enough to wait for driving. i'd be for more stringent requirements when it comes to getting a license though. just being 16 or 18 doesn't make you a better or observant driver. it should be harder to get and keep a license IMO.

it's also entirely too socially acceptable to drink and drive, regardless of age.

We could drive at 14. Only school, work, or church. In case anyone asked.

[47straight]

why don't Europeans have the issues we do with drinking?

The UK does a pretty good job of besting us on the alcohol abuse.

[StoopTroup]

I mean....

Is it illegal to cut grass?

[yermom]

The UK does a pretty good job of besting us on the alcohol abuse.

yeah, i was thinking i might have been a bit too broad with that question

[StoopTroup]

somehow driving gets attached to drinking.

16 was bad enough to wait for driving. i'd be for more stringent requirements when it comes to getting a license though. just being 16 or 18 doesn't make you a better or observant driver. it should be harder to get and keep a license IMO.

it's also entirely too socially acceptable to drink and drive, regardless of age.

What about folks who get high and drive?

You know....you can get busted the same as driving drunk....

The cops even smell it on you or the Stuff that's supposedly legal now that they sell at head shops to the kids.....They can go to jail for a DUI.....

[yermom]

you shouldn't be driving impaired from anything, no sleep, painkillers, weed, alcohol, Benadryl, etc...

[StoopTroup]

I know....Sometimes I've driven while having teh secs.

[47straight]

yeah, i was thinking i might have been a bit too broad with that question

It's probably our fault anyway.

[bluedogok]

BAN EVERYTHING AND NO ONE WILL DIE!!!!!!!

Oh wait.......

[KantoSooner]

Comparing our 'problems' to those in Europe, Australia, Japan or other like nations, the following conclusions can be drawn:

1. Kids don't drive in many of these countries and they drive at later ages if at all. It's hard to have a car wreck if you aren't driving.

2. Many of these countries have drink/drug issues. In Japan, for instance, teen smoking, glue sniffing, amphetamine use and good old alcohol are at comparable levels to here. We don't hear about it because our press doesn't find it interesting and their press is slightly embarassed. Australia, for another example, has at least the same issues as here. Again, we don't hear about it. I know that an Italian friend was driven half crazy by his high school aged daughter's pot smoking and wild sex parties.

Teen agers are essentially numbingly stupid. they are also resourceful monkies. Like boulders crashing downhill, you can try to direct them, you can not stop them. Sumptuary laws are a ridiculous waste of time and serve only to enrich the criminals who feed the demand and to criminalize those in our society who can't afford legal shields for their behavior.

[texaspokieokie]

like this.

"teenagers are numbingly stupid".

[jk the sooner fan]

my only comment is the "we're old enough to fight/die for our country, so we should be able to drink"

then enlist....sign up, take the oath.....i'd be ALL for lowering the drinking age for those ACTUALLY serving

the rest of the kids partying anyway in college or working mcdonalds during the day.........can just STFU with that argument

i think 21 works pretty well actually

[KantoSooner]

And, if 21 stops you from getting beer from your parents' fridge or from an older sibling/friend, you can always just go buy pot. If you don't know who to buy from by the age of 16 or so, you clearly have no social existence.

[Sooner_Tuf]

The argument that they get it anyway doesn't hold a lot of water. They may get it but it makes them criminals in the eyes of the law. Us making it a big deal makes it a big deal to them.

If we were more casual about it I don't think it would be such a big deal to them. I'm sure my kids did things I didn't know about just like I did a few things my parents didn't know about. If you are really a part of your kids lives they aren't doing a whole lot you don't know about.

It is a mistake in my opinion to with hold responsibility from young people. If anything I think we need to make them more responsible.

[yermom]

my only comment is the "we're old enough to fight/die for our country, so we should be able to drink"

then enlist....sign up, take the oath.....i'd be ALL for lowering the drinking age for those ACTUALLY serving

the rest of the kids partying anyway in college or working mcdonalds during the day.........can just STFU with that argument

i think 21 works pretty well actually

if they aren't mature enough to handle a beer, how can they be mature enough to handle a decision like enlisting?

[jk the sooner fan]

if they aren't mature enough to handle a beer, how can they be mature enough to handle a decision like enlisting?

why am i not surprised that you'd respond with this

[yermom]

the argument isn't that they are enlisting and can't drink, it's that they are old enough to enlist and can't drink

[OU_Sooners75]

But no one gets peer pressured to die for their country, or at least not as much as drinking. Everybody wants to drink. Drinking gets you laid a lot more than serving does.



I think it matters. 18 is way lower than 21.


U sure about that doctor ruth?

[OU_Sooners75]

underage drinking is a problem. This would make it so much worse. But im also a non drinking. 99% of college students drink more than me.

Its only a problem because they are 18-20 year olds drinking.

Hell, they do it anyway, may as well, make it legal...:D

[EnragedOUfan]

There should be absolutely no problem with being allowed to drink at 18.
If you can die for your country at 18 and be trained to handle a hand grenade and automatic weapon, you should be allowed to drink.

However, America is not responsible enough for this to happen in my opinion. If adult DUI's still exist, I think young 18 year old DUI's would be on the rise, especially when you factor high school parties, etc. In my youth, I knew heck of a lot of people who binged drinked. When I lived in Germany, Germans could drink at 16......In my opinion however, Germans were more responsible with it. Beer is their culture. I drank a beer one time that has been brewed since 1050, it was brewed at a old monastery by German monks. Plus, German law is more strict. If you're an EU citizen, don't get a DUI or your a$$ is toast. Get a DUI in America, you'll be back on the road in no time and this is the problem because the punishment is weak......

If the drinking age were lowered, think how much binge drinking among our youth would increase??? It would be crazy in my opinion... If American laws were more strict, maybe 18 year olds could handle it and be kept in check. Otherwise, it should stay as is in my opinion.....

[EnragedOUfan]

Might I add that as a service member however, if you're overseas, you can buy beer from the post/base shoppette while under the age of 21. In my opinion, I think the military allows this as an incentinve to try and keep the service member on post/base if his intentions are to drink. Keep the young Private on post and let him drink on post. This is better than him leaving post, buying alcohol off post, drinking off post while in a new foreign country, increasing his chances of getting caught up in something stupid or dangerous, and decreasing his chances of the temptation to drive. The young service member would be much safer while drunk in the barracks. The MP's are right around the corner to keep things in check.

[jk the sooner fan]

Might I add that as a service member however, if you're overseas, you can buy beer from the post/base shoppette while under the age of 21. In my opinion, I think the military allows this as an incentinve to try and keep the service member on post/base if his intentions are to drink. Keep the young Private on post and let him drink on post. This is better than him leaving post, buying alcohol off post, drinking off post while in a new foreign country, increasing his chances of getting caught up in something stupid or dangerous, and decreasing his chances of the temptation to drive. The young service member would be much safer while drunk in the barracks. The MP's are right around the corner to keep things in check.

really? where did you serve overseas that allowed this?

[EnragedOUfan]

really? where did you serve overseas that allowed this?

Germany.

[Sooner_Tuf]

Military minimum age rules are complicated. Once upon a time (when I was young) if you were active duty you could drink on base anywhere in the world. Then it became 18, later it was 18 everywhere except in the US where it was whatever the local law was. Then that was modified with the 50 mile rule - which allowed a lower age if the base was located within 50 miles of Canada, Mexico, or a state with a lower age requirement.

The base Commander can also set the age to drink if he wants. He can remove it completely if he wants, but he will be personally responsible for any problems.

Today it has gotten even more complicated as the military now takes local treaties into account when setting the minimum age to drink.

Pretty much you have to be 21 to drink in the US, for the most part you have to be 18 to drink overseas (even in the countries where the law is 16). But your Commanding Officer may still remove it or even raise it if he feels the conditions warrant a different standard.

[jk the sooner fan]

Germany.

then they've changed things since I was stationed there

I retired in 2004 and the Army policy on alcohol was that units were not allowed to have unit sponsored events with alcohol where minors were concerned

[EnragedOUfan]

I only know this because I had Soldiers in my squad that were young, new Privates.....They were never ID'ed at the Shopette when they bought their alcohol, nor did the Shopette have a "must be 21" sign. I even witnessed guys that I knew were under 21 purchase alcohol at the Shopette while in line....... Now whether that particular Shopette was pulling something sheisty, I heard from several other people that other Shopettes around USAREUR as well didn't ID. Maybe it was an unwritten, let it slide type of thing, I don't know.....Like stated above, probably the installation CO's discretion, who knows.....