28-year old war veteran commits suicide....

[SteelClip49]

It takes a lot for me to break down but this did it. This guy did so much for veterans and I guess because of soldiers he served with who died is what ultimately led to this. Who knows but damn....this is heart-wrenching.

R.I.P Cpl. Hunt!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_popular_veteran_suicide

[ByrnHoustonsSweatyPalms]

Soldiers have the same fears and are haunted by the past, present and future just like the rest of us.

[SoonerLVZ]

sad story.

RIP Corporal Hunt.
We are a better country because you and your service.

[diverdog]

There is a huge problem in the military and it has to do with vets who get hurt while in the performance of their duty. I was hurt badly on a peace time training mission and the minute I became ineligible to fly I was on my own. All the unit cares about is readiness and if you are not part of the unit then you are isolated. I am still very bitter about what the military put me through to get treated and paid. In fact, I eventually had to get treated by my civilian employer. Because of this isolation many vets become angry, violent, drugs addicts or worse a spiral to suicide.

The other issue is how we deploy our soldiers in combat. Because of the high level of intelligence our soldiers are in contact more with the enemy than ever before. In WWII you may have a month or two of very fierce battle followed by several months of down time. In todays military you are always on patrol, always at the tip of the spear and always in danger. Watch the movie Restrepo as a great example of the conditions these men face. The pressure our soldiers face is beyond imagination.

Combat stress has always been with us and how we choose to deal with it is a defining issue for our society. I think that once a person is done with their tours they should be forced to stay in the military for two years and slowly reintegrated into society. Their medical care should contiue for 10 years afterwards or longer. Mental health care that is specific to combat stress-survivors guilt etc should be mandated. We should not put a price on their care and it should be the best. And the compensation scale needs to be completely readjusted so that a 100% disabled vet can live on his disability check.

[yermom]

the intelligence thing is interesting. i hadn't thought about that before. of course, it makes sense seeing that they keep jacking with re-upping people and broadening enlistment requirements, etc...

[StoopTroup]

Diver.....

One thing I know we see these days is folks get patched up and sent back into service time and time. Our Medical Units are amazing these days and these folks who are injured way out number the Fallen in Action.

This concerns me just as an American. The amount of folks in Cpl.Hunt's position is staggering.

Prayers for his Family and Friends who supported him through all of this.....

It's pretty awful to see such a Hero struggle and fight and then fall by his own hand. Hopefully this will turn into a positive for those who struggle as he did.

RIP Cpl. Hunt

Thanks for posting this Steel.

[Aldebaran]

Soldiers have the same fears and are haunted by the past, present and future just like the rest of us.

I disagree. Soldiers may have range of emotions as anyone else, but the experiences that inform their fears or haunts is quite a bit different than your avg. citizen.

[Mjcpr]

There is a huge problem in the military and it has to do with vets who get hurt while in the performance of their duty.

That is one of the problems with war in general.

:confused:

[oudavid1]

Im a cocky youngin. I think i know everything.

When i see something like this. I am reminded that the world is much bigger and more serious on a level i may never understand but absolutely have to respect.

Thank you for defending me and my family corporal Hunt.
May God forgive you, so i can shake your hand one day.

[C&CDean]

I disagree. Soldiers may have range of emotions as anyone else, but the experiences that inform their fears or haunts is quite a bit different than your avg. citizen.

Yes. And no.

Yes, they have experiences that the average civilian doesn't (much like police/firefighters), but most of them cope with it. People who are pre-disposed to suicide are going to do it whether they've lived through horrors or not.

I really don't feel much for this guy (other than thanks for his service) but I feel a LOT for his family/friends. Suicide only hurts those who care for the selfish dumbass who does it.

[oudavid1]

Yes. And no.

Yes, they have experiences that the average civilian doesn't (much like police/firefighters), but most of them cope with it. People who are pre-disposed to suicide are going to do it whether they've lived through horrors or not.

I really don't feel much for this guy (other than thanks for his service) but I feel a LOT for his family/friends. Suicide only hurts those who care for the selfish dumbass who does it.

And for the families sake, may God forgive him.

[SoCaliSooner]

Yes. And no.

Yes, they have experiences that the average civilian doesn't (much like police/firefighters), but most of them cope with it. People who are pre-disposed to suicide are going to do it whether they've lived through horrors or not.

I really don't feel much for this guy (other than thanks for his service) but I feel a LOT for his family/friends. Suicide only hurts those who care for the selfish dumbass who does it.

I agree. I also think that many guys join the military because the may have run out of options in life. Maybe they barely cut it in high school and found the job market tough. Some don't have the tools to make it in life. Now put them in a high stress situation and it breaks them down further.

Suicide is always a bad way to go out, especially knowing how it rips apart your family no matter what you put in a note.

[diverdog]

I agree. I also think that many guys join the military because the may have run out of options in life. Maybe they barely cut it in high school and found the job market tough. Some don't have the tools to make it in life. Now put them in a high stress situation and it breaks them down further.

Suicide is always a bad way to go out, especially knowing how it rips apart your family no matter what you put in a note.

SoCali:

You are painting with an awfully broad brush. I spent over 11 years in the military and I can say beyond a doubt 95% of the people I served with were as sharp as anyone in the civilian world. The sterotype that the military is made up with folks who could not make it in society is mostly wrong. Many of the guys, like myself, signed up for the adventure and to prove something to ourselves. I have found nothing in the civilian world that matches the brotherhood and camaraderie that you develop in the military. Police and fireman are probably close.

I also do not think people understand how stressful combat is. There is nothing in life to prepare anyone for the horrors of war. I have only been close to the front lines a couple of times and even I cannot imagine being under constant fire. I have seen the after effects of combat with the soldiers we air evac'd and it was not pretty. What is surprising to me is that more soldiers do not kill themselves. Can you imagine standing next to your best friend and in one second his head is blown off? Then you move positions and the guy next to you is gut shot and screaming in agony and the battle rages on and another friend goes down and another and another? You deal with that day after day. I will never second guess a guys motives for going into the service because they are doing a service most people could never do.

[ByrnHoustonsSweatyPalms]

I agree. I also think that many guys join the military because the may have run out of options in life. Maybe they barely cut it in high school and found the job market tough. Some don't have the tools to make it in life. Now put them in a high stress situation and it breaks them down further.

Suicide is always a bad way to go out, especially knowing how it rips apart your family no matter what you put in a note.

Like firemen?:pop:

[sappstuf]

I agree. I also think that many guys join the military because the may have run out of options in life. Maybe they barely cut it in high school and found the job market tough. Some don't have the tools to make it in life. Now put them in a high stress situation and it breaks them down further.

Suicide is always a bad way to go out, especially knowing how it rips apart your family no matter what you put in a note.

That might be true in the Air Force, but never the Navy. Right DD? ;)

[SoCaliSooner]

Like firemen?:pop:

Maybe in small-town USA. I had to get a 4 year degree, get my EMT and Paramedic. When I tested, over 40 thousand applied and from that list only 86 got hired. It's not exactly a job that merely required a pulse and a signature.

[diverdog]

That might be true in the Air Force, but never the Navy. Right DD? ;)

Probably in certain career fields that might be true.

[Aldebaran]

Conversely, the Army will clearly accept any mouthbreather they can get their hands on.

[SoCaliSooner]

SoCali:

You are painting with an awfully broad brush. I spent over 11 years in the military and I can say beyond a doubt 95% of the people I served with were as sharp as anyone in the civilian world. The sterotype that the military is made up with folks who could not make it in society is mostly wrong. Many of the guys, like myself, signed up for the adventure and to prove something to ourselves. I have found nothing in the civilian world that matches the brotherhood and camaraderie that you develop in the military. Police and fireman are probably are close.


I was referencing the guys who off themselves. However, it's no secret that when the economy is booming less guys go military and when the economy is bad, more guys join. I am not going to debate who sees the worst stuff or who deals with it better. We have many guys in our department who have been called to active duty upon return have said that they see worse on the job than they do in the sand box, and guys that say the opposite.

Not every guy in the military literally has their friend blown up right next to them and not every firefighter/ paramedic is working up/on a kid or runs a call involving their family members. I get that. My point is that the guys who aren't squared away to begin with are probably the ones who struggle more with their psychological problems.

[Aldebaran]

Yes. And no.

Yes, they have experiences that the average civilian doesn't (much like police/firefighters), but most of them cope with it. People who are pre-disposed to suicide are going to do it whether they've lived through horrors or not.

I really don't feel much for this guy (other than thanks for his service) but I feel a LOT for his family/friends. Suicide only hurts those who care for the selfish dumbass who does it.


Bull****. If that was true, suicide rates for soldiers and society at large would be similar.

[soonercruiser]

I disagree. Soldiers may have range of emotions as anyone else, but the experiences that inform their fears or haunts is quite a bit different than your avg. citizen.

Good post!
A also disagree with the equality of experience theory.
Soldiers in combat see vastly elevated experiences of evil, death, and life & death decisions every day (night & day).
Police and fire see some, but not on a constant, every day level with combat.

The persnal susceptibilites as a reaction to that stress are there for everyone, yes. But, not that same level of heightened stress.

I will never forget the stress let-down after returning from Nam.
You had to "carry" night & day! You could never feel relaxed....except maybe sleeping.
That is one reason that although I may want a weapon for protection at home; carrying all the time is simply a whole different animal.

At some point, everyone's Sympathetic Nervous System will simply run out of coping "juice" (proportionate to their level of ability). I have seen this in my life, and am lucky enough to now "work" at a much decresed level of stress these later years.

[okie52]

My son found one guy in his unit that committed suicide a week before they deployed to Iraq. They think it was due to an argument with his wife rather than deployment. Another guy in his unit committed suicide 2 months earlier.

A seargent who had already been to Iraq twice went off the deep end during a training exercise 1 month before deployment and was discharged from the Army.

That seems like a high number of guys losing it within a short period of time.

Of course, they all may have been just be crazy suckers to begin with.

[C&CDean]

Bull****. If that was true, suicide rates for soldiers and society at large would be similar.

Can you prove it isn't? I don't know.
I have seen some research that policemen have a higher per-capital suicide rate than civilians though.

My point though is that crazy ****ers are crazy ****ers. People that kill themselves in the military would probably end up doing it if they never went into the military. Some people just don't handle life's stresses very well.

Case in point:

My cousin (who's name is Dane and who I've been mixed up with a time or two by creditors) was a Marine in Vietnam (Saigon Embassy guard, not front line). He did his tour, came home, and began using prescription pain killers for a back injury he had. When the VA tried to cut him off he went all psycho - until they got him hooked up with the really good ****. He is 57 years old, has never worked, lives on drugs, and has been accused of killing his wife (she died very mysteriously several years ago). He blames it all on Vietnam.

My dad, who was a 3-war veteran (WWII, Korea, Vietnam) who flew in air missions over Japan and Korea, and built runways in the middle of the jungle in Bien Hoa and other places in the early 60's while taking daily mortar/rocket attacks was as normal/sane/level headed as anybody you could find.

What's the diff? Who knows, but some people are just ****ed up, and some people ain't. Everybody tries to blame their ****edupness on something.

[diverdog]

Can you prove it isn't? I don't know.
I have seen some research that policemen have a higher per-capital suicide rate than civilians though.

My point though is that crazy ****ers are crazy ****ers. People that kill themselves in the military would probably end up doing it if they never went into the military. Some people just don't handle life's stresses very well.

Case in point:

My cousin (who's name is Dane and who I've been mixed up with a time or two by creditors) was a Marine in Vietnam (Saigon Embassy guard, not front line). He did his tour, came home, and began using prescription pain killers for a back injury he had. When the VA tried to cut him off he went all psycho - until they got him hooked up with the really good ****. He is 57 years old, has never worked, lives on drugs, and has been accused of killing his wife (she died very mysteriously several years ago). He blames it all on Vietnam.

My dad, who was a 3-war veteran (WWII, Korea, Vietnam) who flew in air missions over Japan and Korea, and built runways in the middle of the jungle in Bien Hoa and other places in the early 60's while taking daily mortar/rocket attacks was as normal/sane/level headed as anybody you could find.

What's the diff? Who knows, but some people are just ****ed up, and some people ain't. Everybody tries to blame their ****edupness on something.

I believe suicide rates for the military is more than twice that in society and maybe four times the rate. A Rand Study shows that 1 in 5 combat soldiers suffer from PTSD. Most of it is from IED's. There is nothing in society that is even remotely close to an IED detonation and many of these guys are suffering from the effects of the blast or surviving blast related injuries.

http://www.rand.org/news/press/2008/04/17.html

BTW you may never know if your dad has suffered from combat related stress. Most of those older vets like my dad will not even talk about it. They will open up to other vets. If you have not been in the military he may not feel like you have earned the right to know even as his son. Just sayin.

[C&CDean]

I believe suicide rates for the military is more than twice that in society and maybe four times the rate. A Rand Study shows that 1 in 5 combat soldiers suffer from PTSD. Most of it is from IED's. There is nothing in society that is even remotely close to an IED detonation and many of these guys are suffering from the effects of the blast or surviving blast related injuries.

http://www.rand.org/news/press/2008/04/17.html

BTW you may never know if your dad has suffered from combat related stress. Most of those older vets like my dad will not even talk about it. They will open up to other vets. If you have not been in the military he may not feel like you have earned the right to know even as his son. Just sayin.

I am a vet too. 82nd Airborne. We talked about a lot of things. To him it was his duty, and people die in war. He felt blessed for surviving, and didn't have much good to say for people like my cousin.

PTSD can happen from a lot of things. Surviving a very bad car crash, driving up on an accident and finding your friend in two pieces, walking in and finding your friend who commited suicide with a steak knife, having a parachute malfunction and streamering in with your reserve tangling up in your main. These are just a few things that could probably cause it, all things I've experienced in my life. Lots of non-military people have seen/done as bad or worse and are OK.

Sometimes I wake up in the night and think about it, or even have dreams about some of it. I don't know if that's PTSD or not, but it ain't enough to wig me out or make me wanna kill myself. Maybe somebody else would? I don't know, and I ain't real good at understanding mental illness. I was always raised to pick yourself up and keep marching on. Maybe I'm just lucky.

[diverdog]

I am a vet too. 82nd Airborne. We talked about a lot of things. To him it was his duty, and people die in war. He felt blessed for surviving, and didn't have much good to say for people like my cousin.

PTSD can happen from a lot of things. Surviving a very bad car crash, driving up on an accident and finding your friend in two pieces, walking in and finding your friend who commited suicide with a steak knife, having a parachute malfunction and streamering in with your reserve tangling up in your main. These are just a few things that could probably cause it, all things I've experienced in my life. Lots of non-military people have seen/done as bad or worse and are OK.

Sometimes I wake up in the night and think about it, or even have dreams about some of it. I don't know if that's PTSD or not, but it ain't enough to wig me out or make me wanna kill myself. Maybe somebody else would? I don't know, and I ain't real good at understanding mental illness. I was always raised to pick yourself up and keep marching on. Maybe I'm just lucky.

When were you in the 82nd? We use to do a lot of airdrops with you guys.

I think another issue that was pointed out in Restrepo is that when these guys go home they no longer feel important or useful. You think about the power that an E-3 has in war time and it does not necessarily translate into the civilian world. The Hurt Locker also captured the same feeling. The main character could not function in the civilian world when he returned home.

There is not telling what causes them to kill themselves and I tend to think it is more than coping skills.

My dad was in Vietnam and flew out of those airfields in Bien Hoa. My father in law flew fighters out of Phu Bai.

[Okla-homey]

Conversely, the Army will clearly accept any mouthbreather they can get their hands on.

They may take an inordinate number of mouthbreathers, but they put those guys and girls in Combat Service and Support (CSS) units - QM, Supply, etc. They cook, clean, count socks, issue beans and bullets, pump fuel, haul water, wash vehicles, etc. - pretty much the same jobs you would expect people of similar intelligence to do in civilain life.

In contrast, and for the most part, the combat arms (infantry, armor, artillery, aviation, special forces (a/k/a "green berets"), combat engineers) are populated by very smart people. They have to be. And as an aside, that's also why Army senior leadership is so heavily male and WASP-y. You don't rise to multi-star general officer rank in the Army without successful commands of a combat arms company, battalion, brigade and division on your resume.

Not saying minorities groups are incapable of hacking it in infantry, armor, artillery or aviation units, but you sure don't see anywhere near the percentage in those units as in the Army as a whole. There have been a lot of scholarly papers on it. No one's sure why, but they think it may have something to do with the fact those are the most physically demanding jobs in the Army, people who can't (or won't) hack it are weeded-out early, and the pay is precisely the same as in the CSS outfits.

[Sooner5030]

-sucks that no one could reach the Soldier and convince him that suicide is a long term solution to a short term problem.

I never had a Soldier commit suicide but I always wondered what the energy from a 300 lb HME blast could do to someones brain. We've been able to mitigate many of the typical overpressure, blast and spall/w(sp) injuries but there is still a huge wave that travels through the V-hull and through the Soldier.

Anyway, when looking at the macro problem there are a lot of other factors that may have led to the increase. Just think of coming home to an empty house with everything gone....including the vehicles, bank accounts cleared and your joint credit lines maxed. This is more typical than you think and there is no VA benefits for it. Deployments can suck.

[olevetonahill]

Soldiers have the same fears and are haunted by the past, present and future just like the rest of us.


I agree. I also think that many guys join the military because the may have run out of options in life. Maybe they barely cut it in high school and found the job market tough. Some don't have the tools to make it in life. Now put them in a high stress situation and it breaks them down further.

Suicide is always a bad way to go out, especially knowing how it rips apart your family no matter what you put in a note.

Nominated for 2 of the dumbest ****ing posts of the year:rolleyes:

[olevetonahill]

Maybe in small-town USA. I had to get a 4 year degree, get my EMT and Paramedic. When I tested, over 40 thousand applied and from that list only 86 got hired. It's not exactly a job that merely required a pulse and a signature.


Conversely, the Army will clearly accept any mouthbreather they can get their hands on.


Nominated for 2 of the dumbest ****ing posts of the year:rolleyes:

Then I read on and there's 2 more :rolleyes:
Dudes and Dudettes, If you've never fought, If you've never Bled on Foreign soil, If you've never held yer friend in yer arms as they have bled out, If you've never had to pick up pieces of a friend and load em in a body bag and then toss em on a chopper under fire.
Then please just STFU

[olevetonahill]

Oh and
R.I.P Cpl. Hunt! you've spent yer time in hell, may you now rest in Heaven

[SoCaliSooner]

Then I read on and there's 2 more :rolleyes:
Dudes and Dudettes, If you've never fought, If you've never Bled on Foreign soil, If you've never held yer friend in yer arms as they have bled out, If you've never had to pick up pieces of a friend and load em in a body bag and then toss em on a chopper under fire.
Then please just STFU
I didn't know there was a monopoly on who has or hasn't dealt with some intense stuff...and who had seen worse.

In the same way that we sign up knowing we're going to see moms and dads and babies (innocent civilians going about their day) splattered inside a car or a train or shot with a shotgun, or the victims of a traumatic crime or kids drown in a pool, there's certain expectations of what you deal with in that occupation, much as there are when going into combat. I find it odd that some of the horrific stuff we firefighters, cops and paramedics see, we don't go around telling people "we've seen some bad sh#t" like people should bow down or give us a free pass.

It's part of what you sign up for. I have 20 years in, and probably another 20 more and figure you know that everybody lives and dies. It's how I/we spend our time away from it that keeps us sane.

[Chuck Bao]

Oh and
R.I.P Cpl. Hunt! you've spent yer time in hell, may you now rest in Heaven

For whatever reason, I still can't spek you, Olevet, but I do have to say that I greatly appreciate and admire that statement. May God be with each and every one of our troops during their service to our country and afterward.

[Radar's Left Hand]

My buddy just served with him a few weeks ago with Team Rubicon in Haiti. He says Clay was a really good dude and was surprised that this happened.

[Chuck Bao]

My buddy just served with him a few weeks ago with Team Rubicon in Haiti. He says Clay was a really good dude and was surprised that this happened.

Prayers for his fellow troops, friends and family. May God give comfort and support during this time.

Olevet, please do not let them get to you. You have to know that there are many, many of us who realize that we can't ever understand what some of our troops have been through, but we are there to support them and give thanks for their sacrifices.

[THE-JROD]

Vet, dont let these dumb****s get to ya! They clearly have no clue to what its like as you do. All they have is an opinion, which they are entitled to, but in this case shows their true stupidity!

[AlbqSooner]

In the same way that we sign up knowing we're going to see moms and dads and babies (innocent civilians going about their day) splattered inside a car or a train or shot with a shotgun, or the victims of a traumatic crime or kids drown in a pool, there's certain expectations of what you deal with in that occupation, much as there are when going into combat. I find it odd that some of the horrific stuff we firefighters, cops and paramedics see, we don't go around telling people "we've seen some bad sh#t" like people should bow down or give us a free pass.

Okay, there is no question your job puts you in some horrific situations. Now go do that same job while bullets are flying by your ear so close you can feel the heat and here the unmistakable sound. Do your job while mortar rounds are landing so close you get splattered with dust and debris.

As far as suggesting that veterans who have experienced that are asking people to bow down or give them a free pass, I suppose there may be some of those. By and large, however, you will not hear those sentiments expressed by combat veterans.

Your post is disturbingly full of misapprehension on your part.

[soonercruiser]

I am a vet too. 82nd Airborne. We talked about a lot of things. To him it was his duty, and people die in war. He felt blessed for surviving, and didn't have much good to say for people like my cousin.

PTSD can happen from a lot of things. Surviving a very bad car crash, driving up on an accident and finding your friend in two pieces, walking in and finding your friend who commited suicide with a steak knife, having a parachute malfunction and streamering in with your reserve tangling up in your main. These are just a few things that could probably cause it, all things I've experienced in my life. Lots of non-military people have seen/done as bad or worse and are OK.

Sometimes I wake up in the night and think about it, or even have dreams about some of it. I don't know if that's PTSD or not, but it ain't enough to wig me out or make me wanna kill myself. Maybe somebody else would? I don't know, and I ain't real good at understanding mental illness. I was always raised to pick yourself up and keep marching on. Maybe I'm just lucky.

I was at Pope AFB in Fayetteville, 1878-1983.
My first assignment as a tooth jerk.

[olevetonahill]

I didn't know there was a monopoly on who has or hasn't dealt with some intense stuff...and who had seen worse.

In the same way that we sign up knowing we're going to see moms and dads and babies (innocent civilians going about their day) splattered inside a car or a train or shot with a shotgun, or the victims of a traumatic crime or kids drown in a pool, there's certain expectations of what you deal with in that occupation, much as there are when going into combat. I find it odd that some of the horrific stuff we firefighters, cops and paramedics see, we don't go around telling people "we've seen some bad sh#t" like people should bow down or give us a free pass.

It's part of what you sign up for. I have 20 years in, and probably another 20 more and figure you know that everybody lives and dies. It's how I/we spend our time away from it that keeps us sane.

Was a Cop, Been there Done that
Saw **** at 18 that would curl yer toes
**** you.at 18 I dint ASK to be in that shat :rolleyes:

[SoCaliSooner]

As far as suggesting that veterans who have experienced that are asking people to bow down or give them a free pass, I suppose there may be some of those. By and large, however, you will not hear those sentiments expressed by combat veterans.

Your post is disturbingly full of misapprehension on your part.

Not all veterans act that way just some. Both my grandfathers were in WWII one with the USMC in the pacific and one was a tailgunner in B-26's. My okie grandfather in the B-26 was stuck flying 58 missions and lost many members of his crew on multiple runs. He'd never been in a plane before. My grandfather in the pacific had hellish hand to hand combat on several islands.

When they came back they married, got jobs had families and filed away that chapter. I often wonder what it was about the WWII vets that most moved on and had great lives and built this country. There wasn't huge homeless numbers and while there was "shell shock", by and large people rebounded.
Three uncles were in Nam and got out, had families became productive members of society in law enforcement and I know they were in some of the worst areas of the Nam war.

I've always taken issue with guys some 40-45 years after being in combat that they still hang on to their combat stuff to excuse never moving on. I also do realize that many folks were drafted and, as Dean pointed out, were probably screwed up to begin with and the military didn't shape their character as much as revealed it.

I do wonder why people have to "STFU" when we're just discussing our opinions. I've never been president or run a country, that doesn't mean I shouldn't have an opinion.

Lastly, regarding the bullets and mortars, I am pretty sure guys see that in sporadic doses. Not to make it any less dangerous because it is, but some make it sound like they are getting shot at all day, every day, every friend is getting killed, all day every day because that's all they seem to mention.

It was bad. I get it. This guy committed suicide. Seems like there are many options out there than that, ESPECIALLY in todays society. His family is forever changed because of it but to say it was a selfish thing to do to his family leads to people defending this guy simply because he was a veteran.

[SoCaliSooner]

Was a Cop, Been there Done that


Which department?

[Turd_Ferguson]

Which department?He was assigned to handing out wood shampoo's to dickheads like you...

[olevetonahill]

I am a vet too. 82nd Airborne. We talked about a lot of things. To him it was his duty, and people die in war. He felt blessed for surviving, and didn't have much good to say for people like my cousin.

PTSD can happen from a lot of things. Surviving a very bad car crash, driving up on an accident and finding your friend in two pieces, walking in and finding your friend who commited suicide with a steak knife, having a parachute malfunction and streamering in with your reserve tangling up in your main. These are just a few things that could probably cause it, all things I've experienced in my life. Lots of non-military people have seen/done as bad or worse and are OK.

Sometimes I wake up in the night and think about it, or even have dreams about some of it. I don't know if that's PTSD or not, but it ain't enough to wig me out or make me wanna kill myself. Maybe somebody else would? I don't know, and I ain't real good at understanding mental illness. I was always raised to pick yourself up and keep marching on. Maybe I'm just lucky.

Well said Bro
Try living with it tho after seeing and experiencing it 24/7 365

[olevetonahill]

Which department?

2 years on Elk City PD
want some confirmation? BTK you around ?
SoCali you are one ginormous dick head
Ive seen Folks DIE in Battle Ive watched as one of our own went down on the streets. I stood as Honor Guard and and watched his Killer Die at Mac.
Yea so STFU

[CrimsonJim]

Don't pay the hacker no mind, Vet. He doesn't understand and you are not going to convince him.

[soonerloyal]

Don't judge me for how I left this world, remember the love I gave.
A lot of grief will follow me for the decision that I have made.
Changes appear in everyone's life, some good and some bad.
The one I chose for myself made everyone very sad.

But in time memories will heal the hurt of hearts,
And my presence will be felt by all with an inner peace.
Remember me when the sun is bright and laughter fills the air,
And a moonlit night and a whisper of wind will tell you I am there.

Don't look down on my family or fill their hearts with blame.
For my leaving them without good-byes, they will never be the same.
If I could go back in time I'd say a last good-bye.
I'd tell them to look to tomorrow and for me, do not cry.

--- Author Unknown




Ask My Mom How She Is

My Mom, she tells a lot of lies,
She never did before
But from now until she dies,
She'll tell a whole lot more.
Ask my Mom how she is
And because she can't explain,
She will tell a little lie
because she can't describe the pain.
Ask my Mom how she is,
She'll say "I'm alright."
If that's the truth, then tell me,
why does she cry each night?
Ask my Mom how she is
She seems to cope so well,
She didn't have a choice you see,
It was just my time to go,
Ask my Mom how she is,
"I'm fine, I'm well, I'm coping."
For God's sake Mom, just tell the truth,
Just say your heart is broken
She'll love me all her life
I loved her all of mine.
But if you ask her how she is,
She'll lie and say she's fine.
I am here in Heaven
I cannot hug from here.
If she lies to you don't listen
Hug her and hold her near.
On the day we meet again,
We'll smile and I'll be bold.
I'll say,
"You're lucky to get in here, Mom,
With all the lies you told!"


You never said "I'm leaving"
You never said goodbye
You were gone before I knew it,
And only God knew why.


A million times I needed you,
A million times I cried
If Love alone could have saved you,
You never would have died.


In Life I loved you dearly
In death I love you still
In my heart you hold a place,
That no one could ever fill.

[C&CDean]

In all honesty, I think socali is trying to be decent, only problem is he dug his ****ing hole a while back with all his belittling/digs/insults and now nobody is willing to take anything he says at face value.

Momma always said don't say **** that's gonna come back and bite you in the ***.

Howie, no worries brother. You walked the mile. Period. Nobody who hasn't doesn't know, and they never will. God bless you for your service. nuff said.

[Soonerus]

Dum-aces should stfu....

[olevetonahill]

Don't judge me for how I left this world, remember the love I gave.
A lot of grief will follow me for the decision that I have made.
Changes appear in everyone's life, some good and some bad.
The one I chose for myself made everyone very sad.

But in time memories will heal the hurt of hearts,
And my presence will be felt by all with an inner peace.
Remember me when the sun is bright and laughter fills the air,
And a moonlit night and a whisper of wind will tell you I am there.

Don't look down on my family or fill their hearts with blame.
For my leaving them without good-byes, they will never be the same.
If I could go back in time I'd say a last good-bye.
I'd tell them to look to tomorrow and for me, do not cry.

--- Author Unknown




Ask My Mom How She Is

My Mom, she tells a lot of lies,
She never did before
But from now until she dies,
She'll tell a whole lot more.
Ask my Mom how she is
And because she can't explain,
She will tell a little lie
because she can't describe the pain.
Ask my Mom how she is,
She'll say "I'm alright."
If that's the truth, then tell me,
why does she cry each night?
Ask my Mom how she is
She seems to cope so well,
She didn't have a choice you see,
It was just my time to go,
Ask my Mom how she is,
"I'm fine, I'm well, I'm coping."
For God's sake Mom, just tell the truth,
Just say your heart is broken
She'll love me all her life
I loved her all of mine.
But if you ask her how she is,
She'll lie and say she's fine.
I am here in Heaven
I cannot hug from here.
If she lies to you don't listen
Hug her and hold her near.
On the day we meet again,
We'll smile and I'll be bold.
I'll say,
"You're lucky to get in here, Mom,
With all the lies you told!"


You never said "I'm leaving"
You never said goodbye
You were gone before I knew it,
And only God knew why.


A million times I needed you,
A million times I cried
If Love alone could have saved you,
You never would have died.


In Life I loved you dearly
In death I love you still
In my heart you hold a place,
That no one could ever fill.

More wet eyes

[olevetonahill]

In all honesty, I think socali is trying to be decent, only problem is he dug his ****ing hole a while back with all his belittling/digs/insults and now nobody is willing to take anything he says at face value.

Momma always said don't say **** that's gonna come back and bite you in the ***.

Howie, no worries brother. You walked the mile. Period. Nobody who hasn't doesn't know, and they never will. God bless you for your service. nuff said.

Ya Know what Dean
This is My Sig Song ;)
bs4y5si8DGs

[C&CDean]

If you don't like the way I'm livin', just leave this long haired country boy alone...

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/2599/dsc0124ou.jpg (http://img641.imageshack.us/i/dsc0124ou.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[olevetonahill]

:D ;) :cool:

[SanJoaquinSooner]

During the years I was a teacher in Norman and then later a grad student, I worked for OU’s pre-collegiate programs in the summer, centered at Adams Tower. Worked with a guy named Terry, a history teacher in Maysville. Terry was a great guy. Once I got to know him, he started confiding about how his experiences in Viet Nam haunted him, but he couldn’t talk about those experiences. After work he would turn to a bottle and was the meanest drunk I’ve never seen. I didn’t know if professional counseling might have helped – to dump everything inside you out on the table to look at it and confront it – but he made it clear he had no interest in looking at and confronting anything.

Terry wasn’t a coach who happened to teach history. He knew his **** and I’m guessing was a great teacher. But he lived alone and drank himself to death, about 40 years old when he died.

In contrast, during my younger undergraduate summer days, I worked shipping & receiving at a heat & air supply co. in OKC. They hired a guy who had recently returned from Viet Nam who was the closest thing to an unadulterated sociopath I’ve ever known. His outlook was turned 180 degrees from Terry’s. He openly talked about atrocities he had witnessed, participated in, or otherwise experienced…. the type of things that slowly but surely turned supporters of the war into anti-war. He seemed totally numb to feelings about it. In fact, the guy seemed void of feelings. I didn’t remain friends with him, so I don’t know how his life played out. But he was quite memorable and such a contrast to Terry.

In any case, I admire vet for he seems to have found a balance in his life in spite of it all, with innumerable friends, even if a couple of them are dickwads. Plus not everyone is bilingual like vet (Merican English and Hillbilly Ebonics).

Speaking of dickwads, nobody is a bigger dickwad than socalisooner, and he takes great pride in it. He’s the lone firefighter/rescue 911 guy in a family full of cops. Cops and firefighters, especially in a microcosm-of-the-world Los Angeles, develop copping skills to retain their sanities. I recall a story socali told about the first time his younger brother killed a suspect while on duty. Instead of wallowing in self-doubt, regret, and remorse over killing someone – the tradition was to have a big barbeque celebration, with all the friends and family of the cop invited.

Among him and his family, I imagine they have experienced many, many deaths of partners, colleagues, victims, and suspects, -- wondering if they could have done anything differently that would have changed the outcome and saved a life. Socali makes a living risking his life to save people. No doubt he has saved many but was unable to do so in some cases – cases that would weigh on any normal person. You won’t find him wallowing, and his colleagues at work wouldn’t allow it anyway. An ounce of wallowing will lead to your boots filled with dog****. That’s his mentality and I know a time or two he’s gone too far. He’s a bit of a sociopath himself, but I figure that’s what you have to be to stick with that type of job, especially in LA..

[Soonerus]

WTH is your point ???

[Leroy Lizard]

Speaking of dickwads, nobody is a bigger dickwad than socalisooner...

Whew! Another close call.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Whew! Another close call.


Naw, ya need some steriods or something.

[oudavid1]

One of my good friends step dad (who is like a father to my friend, they are close) served in Vietnam. He was a high ranking officer (I dont remember). I didnt know at the time when i asked, but we had just finished target practice at the shooting range and me and his step-son were talking about hunting ( i dont hunt but i know people who really love it, like my friend). I asked his step dad if he ever hunted. He replied, "the only thing i ever hunted had two legs and shot back".

I know his kill count was really high. He did things i will never understand.

I have so much respect for this man. I make it my duty to make sure i am always respectful and honor his service. Me and his step son love video games, but when his step dad comes along, i always change the subject out of respect. he knows whats going on. I would hate to know what he can remember. He lost one of his best friends in a field somewhere. He watched him die. My day has never seemed easier.

[StoopTroup]

If you don't like the way I'm livin', just leave this long haired country boy alone...

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/2599/dsc0124ou.jpg (http://img641.imageshack.us/i/dsc0124ou.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

There's quite a few good ole boys in that photo IMO....

[diverdog]

I was at Pope AFB in Fayetteville, 1878-1983.
My first assignment as a tooth jerk.

Colonel I knew you were old but not that old. Crikey! Were you in the mounted calvary with Grant or Lee? :P

[diverdog]

In all honesty, I think socali is trying to be decent, only problem is he dug his ****ing hole a while back with all his belittling/digs/insults and now nobody is willing to take anything he says at face value.

Momma always said don't say **** that's gonna come back and bite you in the ***.

Howie, no worries brother. You walked the mile. Period. Nobody who hasn't doesn't know, and they never will. God bless you for your service. nuff said.

SoCali is a good guy and he does a job most people could not do. I have no doubt there is stress being involved in being a paramedic, fireman or cop. But the biggest difference and I think this is one that SoCali is missing is that in combat is either kill or be killed on a daily basis. That is a whole different level of stress than what is witnessed in any civilian job.

[diverdog]

They may take an inordinate number of mouthbreathers, but they put those guys and girls in Combat Service and Support (CSS) units - QM, Supply, etc. They cook, clean, count socks, issue beans and bullets, pump fuel, haul water, wash vehicles, etc. - pretty much the same jobs you would expect people of similar intelligence to do in civilain life.

In contrast, and for the most part, the combat arms (infantry, armor, artillery, aviation, special forces (a/k/a "green berets"), combat engineers) are populated by very smart people. They have to be. And as an aside, that's also why Army senior leadership is so heavily male and WASP-y. You don't rise to multi-star general officer rank in the Army without successful commands of a combat arms company, battalion, brigade and division on your resume.

Not saying minorities groups are incapable of hacking it in infantry, armor, artillery or aviation units, but you sure don't see anywhere near the percentage in those units as in the Army as a whole. There have been a lot of scholarly papers on it. No one's sure why, but they think it may have something to do with the fact those are the most physically demanding jobs in the Army, people who can't (or won't) hack it are weeded-out early, and the pay is precisely the same as in the CSS outfits.

I want to address the first part of your remarks.

A friend of mine nephew is a computer programmer in the AF. That has been his job or 5 years. Just recently they deployed him to Afghanistan. He thought he would go to Bagram AFB and do his job. Nope they sent him to FT. Leonard Wood to go through combat training and then he was deployed to the front lines with an Army Infantry Unit. His job is to help maintain computers used in field for everything from surveillance aircraft to hacking captured enemy computers. I know other desk jockeys who were assigned convoy duty in Iraq or Afghanistan. The Army has exhausted its people and to pick up the slack they are having other units in other branches of the service pull duty to relieve some stress on Army combat units.

[SoCaliSooner]

Speaking of dickwads, nobody is a bigger dickwad than socalisooner, and he takes great pride in it. He’s the lone firefighter/rescue 911 guy in a family full of cops. Cops and firefighters, especially in a microcosm-of-the-world Los Angeles, develop copping skills to retain their sanities. I recall a story socali told about the first time his younger brother killed a suspect while on duty. Instead of wallowing in self-doubt, regret, and remorse over killing someone – the tradition was to have a big barbeque celebration, with all the friends and family of the cop invited.

Among him and his family, I imagine they have experienced many, many deaths of partners, colleagues, victims, and suspects, -- wondering if they could have done anything differently that would have changed the outcome and saved a life. Socali makes a living risking his life to save people. No doubt he has saved many but was unable to do so in some cases – cases that would weigh on any normal person. You won’t find him wallowing, and his colleagues at work wouldn’t allow it anyway. An ounce of wallowing will lead to your boots filled with dog****. That’s his mentality and I know a time or two he’s gone too far. He’s a bit of a sociopath himself, but I figure that’s what you have to be to stick with that type of job, especially in LA..

Do you have my social security number too?

I don't post about most of my work, because that's not my style. I think in my internet posting life of the last 7 or 8 years, it's maybe been a handful of times. If I see a hot chick flirting at the gym or at the store while on duty, I'll post that. Chick sends me titty pics, I'll post that too. Nobody wants or needs to hear about work stuff.

I was a sheriffs deputy for a couple years and it was just a bad fit. I had been an EMT out of high school paying my way through college and liked it and my career with LASD basically was starting in the jails. The sewer filth of all L.A. County and many deputies were not much better.

The fire department was/is a much better fit.

I do recall posting about my brother dropping a guy who was shooting at him and the other cops at the scene. We had a barbecue, basically in celebration that nobody got hurt and celebrating coming home and peeps on the net didn't like it. They thought it was showing disrespect to the guy who died and was celebrating cops taking trophy kills. People have their opinions and I don't flip out if they don't get it.

I've lost deputy friends I worked with who were killed on the job, firefighters and captains too. I worked up my own mother a couple years ago when she collapsed at home and later died in surgery, and even had a poster refer to me as "O-fer on saving family members" and a bad paramedic because I couldn't save my own mom. That's life.

The sociopath part, yeah...you're probably right there. I still think Scott Peterson was an innocent guy who went out fishing.

[Sooner5030]

A friend of mine nephew is a computer programmer in the AF. That has been his job or 5 years. Just recently they deployed him to Afghanistan. He thought he would go to Bagram AFB and do his job. Nope they sent him to FT. Leonard Wood to go through combat training and then he was deployed to the front lines with an Army Infantry Unit. His job is to help maintain computers used in field for everything from surveillance aircraft to hacking captured enemy computers. I know other desk jockeys who were assigned convoy duty in Iraq or Afghanistan. The Army has exhausted its people and to pick up the slack they are having other units in other branches of the service pull duty to relieve some stress on Army combat units.

He was not tasked with a Maneuver job.......he was still conducting maneuver support or combat service support. The location on the battlefield where you perform those tasks doesn't determine whose job you are doing.

[soonercruiser]

I want to address the first part of your remarks.

A friend of mine nephew is a computer programmer in the AF. That has been his job or 5 years. Just recently they deployed him to Afghanistan. He thought he would go to Bagram AFB and do his job. Nope they sent him to FT. Leonard Wood to go through combat training and then he was deployed to the front lines with an Army Infantry Unit. His job is to help maintain computers used in field for everything from surveillance aircraft to hacking captured enemy computers. I know other desk jockeys who were assigned convoy duty in Iraq or Afghanistan. The Army has exhausted its people and to pick up the slack they are having other units in other branches of the service pull duty to relieve some stress on Army combat units.

DD,
As I have posted before, this all started (during my time) under Clinton and his SecDef who came up with the "Two Theater Wars strategy".
(Plan for no more than two; cut personnel by 25%!) :(

[Collier11]

No matter your past, your motivation, or your intelligence, if you diss our troops in any way, shape, or form you are a worthless POS

[Collier11]

In all honesty, I think socali is trying to be decent, only problem is he dug his ****ing hole a while back with all his belittling/digs/insults and now nobody is willing to take anything he says at face value.

Momma always said don't say **** that's gonna come back and bite you in the ***.

Howie, no worries brother. You walked the mile. Period. Nobody who hasn't doesn't know, and they never will. God bless you for your service. nuff said.


Whats the saying? "Its better to remain silent and be thought an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"

Everyone says stuff they dont mean or didnt intend the way it came out, a decent person will admit fault and move on, not continue making things worse

[Collier11]

SoCali is a good guy and he does a job most people could not do. I have no doubt there is stress being involved in being a paramedic, fireman or cop. But the biggest difference and I think this is one that SoCali is missing is that in combat is either kill or be killed on a daily basis. That is a whole different level of stress than what is witnessed in any civilian job.

What SoCali does is respectful and honorable, I dont think too many people would take that away from him. So why try and delude what a Soldier does?

[SoCaliSooner]

What SoCali does is respectful and honorable, I dont think too many people would take that away from him. So why try and delude what a Soldier does?

Where did I say anything that wasn't directed at a particular individual? I'm not besmirching the military at all. I was going to join in 1990, but I jacked up my ankle pretty bad playing baseball my senior year of high school, went to college instead.

My cousin is a cop who is currently in the Stan as we speak. This guy who committed suicide may be a hero to some, but to me the heroes in the military and the PD and FD are the ones who's family get a folded flag. That's just my opinion.

[Collier11]

Listen, im the biggest advocate of finding another way than suicide, I think it is cowardly and ive posted that on here many times. I think in this case you can seperate the soliders amazing service from his one selfish act

[olevetonahill]

Listen, im the biggest advocate of finding another way than suicide, I think it is cowardly and ive posted that on here many times. I think in this case you can seperate the soliders amazing service from his one selfish act

Its just that sometimes the ****ing Demons win

[Collier11]

and as much as we all claim that there is a better way, sometimes those people just cant take it anymore. Doesnt mean I have to agree with it, but I can still look at this guys life and see that he was a pretty damn good Soldier and Man

[olevetonahill]

and as much as we all claim that there is a better way, sometimes those people just cant take it anymore. Doesnt mean I have to agree with it, but I can still look at this guys life and see that he was a pretty damn good Soldier and Man

To me hes another casualty that wont be counted in the Official count

[SoCaliSooner]

Listen, im the biggest advocate of finding another way than suicide, I think it is cowardly and ive posted that on here many times. I think in this case you can seperate the soliders amazing service from his one selfish act

A few years back there was a firefighter I knew. During his 25 years on the job he was one of the guys I wanted to emulate. He was liked by everybody, had great skills and had some great saves, including a couple of cops shot on duty. This guy was Superman. He promoted, he spent tons of off duty time helping others, shepherding inner city kids into the fire service and was well regarded by many departments.

The guy's 20 year old niece went to the police and told them this guy had been having sex with her since she was 14. Dude got arrested and offed himself the same day, leaving his wife and 3 daughters to pick up the pieces.

Should I weigh his over 25 years of outstanding service against his dark side?

I say the guy is a POS and I made enemies in the place I work because some defend him. Some think he was innocent and was so overwhelmed that he snapped. Just because you put on a uniform of some type and do great things, it doesn't completely absolve you of ruining your loved ones lives catastrophically and forever.

[Collier11]

molestation and incest is different when couple with suicide than simply committing suicide dontcha think

[SoCaliSooner]

molestation and incest is different when couple with suicide than simply committing suicide dontcha think

He was never convicted, either way his career was over. If you want to think that killing yourself is acceptable because a guy does some great things, have at it. People experience horrific things in life, not all are military or cops and firefighters.

Maybe some are able to sack up and take care of their family and be productive members of society. We've responded to more attempted suicides over the years and been able to get to them sometimes before they die. Many times, months or years later we'll get a letter or a visit from that person saying how stupid they felt or how they had tunnel vision on one problem that time worked out.

I am not going to keep debating on it. Suicide is lame, selfish and forever stains the lives of your friends and families, espescially with a guy so young.

[Okla-homey]

I want to address the first part of your remarks.

A friend of mine nephew is a computer programmer in the AF. That has been his job or 5 years. Just recently they deployed him to Afghanistan. He thought he would go to Bagram AFB and do his job. Nope they sent him to FT. Leonard Wood to go through combat training and then he was deployed to the front lines with an Army Infantry Unit. His job is to help maintain computers used in field for everything from surveillance aircraft to hacking captured enemy computers. I know other desk jockeys who were assigned convoy duty in Iraq or Afghanistan. The Army has exhausted its people and to pick up the slack they are having other units in other branches of the service pull duty to relieve some stress on Army combat units.

That may be. But Airman Computer Programmer most definitely won't be kicking doors down in Afghanistan. He'll be at the battalion headquarters safe behind lots of sandbags.

[yermom]

To me hes another casualty that wont be counted in the Official count

some guy that lost his job or took a bath in the market? yeah he just needs to sack up

this guy, not so much.

it sounds like he tried to help others and do what he could to keep everything at bay, but couldn't.

[diverdog]

That may be. But Airman Computer Programmer most definitely won't be kicking doors down in Afghanistan. He'll be at the battalion headquarters safe behind lots of sandbags.

No they are deploying him to a front line unit in the field. He has already done combat patrols. The last thing on earth he thought he would be doing. I agree he will not be kicking in doors but he is along for the ride.

We have about a half dozen desk jockeys at Dover AFB who have Purple Hearts from convoy duty in Iraq.