Earth is 6000 years old ?

[olevetonahill]

Ive read the Bible many times, Some one show me where it says the earth is only 6000 years old.

The 1st book in the bible was written 6000 years ago , But it doesnt say that THAT was the begining :pop:

[Midtowner]

I think it goes that if you count the who begat who and when, you come up with 6,000 years.

[jumperstop]

People who take the Bible literally are retards....probably the same people who don't believe in evolution.

[OU_Sooners75]

People who take the Bible literally are retards....probably the same people who don't believe in evolution.


Ya think? :pop:

[Mjcpr]

DI9ImScQGAo&feature=related

[jumperstop]

Ya think? :pop:

Hey, I've had to argue with people that evolution was fact and that "theory" doesn't mean there is a chance it didn't happen.

[olevetonahill]

I think it goes that if you count the who begat who and when, you come up with 6,000 years.

If ya believe that you need to Reread Genesis ;)

[Turd_Ferguson]

Howard....your gonna bring out all the ****tards with this thread.....oop's...too late:D

[starclassic tama]

i'm pretty curious about this too. it does say "in the beginning, god created..." not "the other day, god created..."

[Whet]

Well, the earth is at least that old. The oldest rock formations are at least a billion years old.

[MR2-Sooner86]

There's this...

The Bible provides a complete genealogy from Adam to Jesus. You can go through the genealogies and add up the years. You'll get a total that is just over 4,000 years. Add the 2,000 years since the time of Jesus and you get just over 6,000 years since God created everything.
Is there anything wrong with figuring out the age of the earth this way? No. There is nothing to indicate the genealogies are incomplete. There is nothing to indicate God left anything out. There is nothing in the Bible that indicates in any way that the world is older than 6,000 years old. (http://www.missiontoamerica.org/genesis/six-thousand-years.html)

and this...

The Bible and true science are in complete agreement. Christians and Creationists have nothing about which they need to “apologize!” It is the evolutionists who need to do the apologizing for duping mankind into believing such a grandiose fantasy. The evolutionists are running out of time. When Jesus Christ returns and establishes his millennial government on earth, all mankind will learn the truth about the origins of the earth and why mankind was created. It will be a time of global peace, prosperity and truth. (http://stevenmcollins.com/html/earth.html)

and that...

Creationists, using the Bible as a starting point, claim that the earth is only about 6,000 years old—and there is abundant evidence that is consistent with this claim. (http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/ee/geologic-record)

and finally this...

Luke lists 55 generations between Jesus and Abraham—a time that archaeology has determined to be about 2,000 years (see Kitchen and Douglas, 1982). In that same chapter, Luke documents that there were only 20 generations between Abraham and Adam. How much time is covered by those twenty generations? Since Genesis 5 provides the ages of the fathers at the time of the births of the sons in the period between Abraham and Adam, it is a simple matter to calculate the approximate number of years during that time span—a figure that turns out to be about 2,000. In chart form it looks like this:

Present to Jesus 2,000 years
Jesus to Abraham 2,000 years (55 generations)
Abraham to Adam 2,000 years (20 generations)
[The fact that the 55 generations between Jesus and Abraham cover 2,000 years, while only 20 generations between Abraham and Adam cover the same amount of time, is explained quite easily on the basis of the vast ages of the patriarchs (e.g., Methuselah, who lived 969 years—Genesis 5:27).]

Some have argued that the genealogies in Genesis 5 cannot be used to show the age of the Earth because they contain huge gaps. But in Jude verse 14, the writer noted that “Enoch was the seventh from Adam” (he is listed, in fact, exactly seventh in the genealogies in Genesis 5:21). Therefore, we know that there are no gaps between the first seven patriarchs, because Jude, writing by inspiration of the Holy Spirit, confirmed the Old Testament account. That leaves only 13 generations with possible gaps between them. In order to accommodate the evolutionary scenario that man has been on the Earth (in some form) approximately 3.5 million years, one would need to insert approximately 290,000 years between each of the 13 generations. It does not take a wealth of Bible knowledge or common sense to see that this quickly becomes ludicrous. Who could believe that the first seven of these generations are so exact, while the remaining 13 contain “gaps” of over 290,000 years each? What kind of biblical exegesis would that represent?

The Bible plainly teaches, after all the pieces have been put together, that the Earth is only about 6,000 or so years old. It is a young Earth after all! (http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=9&article=885)

When explained like that, it makes perfect sense. I've been wrong all along :pop:

[Chuck Bao]

I think the oldest books of the Old Testament, the Torah or the five books of Moses (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy), were written about 3,500 years ago. At least that is what archeologists now speculate by dating the names of the towns used in the text. But, hey it might have been passed down by word of mouth for a millennium or two and someone along the way just decided to update it with the more current names of the towns.

[olevetonahill]

And i think all that **** is way off bro

6000 years of recorded history Yes . But how long Man has been here is not how long the Earth has been here

Since animals Dont have souls comparing them to Mans Life is idiotic.;)

[cccasooner2]

I think it goes that if you count the who begat who and when, you come up with 6,000 years.

Ah yes, the begats. I was told by my big brother I had to memorize them before I could receive my first communion, Well guess what? I didn't do it and nobody asked me once.

[badger]

The best argument for not taking the Bible literally is that IT WAS ORIGINALLY WRITTEN IN ANOTHER LANGUAGE.

Translations tend to skew the intentions of the words:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/68/211725877_b6f6c7a42b.jpg
(This originated when a Chinese bootleg edition of Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith had poorly translated English subtitles inserted into the movie. This was the moment Vader yelled NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO)

[cccasooner2]

"When Jesus Christ returns and establishes his millennial government on earth, all mankind will learn the truth about the origins of the earth and why mankind was created. It will be a time of global peace, prosperity and truth. May that time come soon."

I'll settle for the b***ards in Washington doing something right for just once. The rest of the world can take us over with my blessing (and presumably that great Mexican) if they don't.

[Chuck Bao]

The best argument for not taking the Bible literally is that IT WAS ORIGINALLY WRITTEN IN ANOTHER LANGUAGE.

Translations tend to skew the intentions of the words:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/68/211725877_b6f6c7a42b.jpg
(This originated when a Chinese bootleg edition of Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith had poorly translated English subtitles inserted into the movie. This was the moment Vader yelled NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO)

That is the funniest thing I have seen on the internet in a very long time. Kudos, Badger.

I no longer buy bootleg video. But when I did, some of the dialogue caption was inexplictably translated from English to Thai and then back to English with hilarious results. I really wanted to know - who are these people and why not hire someone, anyone really, who actually understands English to write the words as spoken in the film? It would be a pretty easy job.

Translation of movies is a very good example. Cultures differ so greatly and when Nope and I are watching the same movie I can be laughing my butt off and he won't get the joke whether the film has Thai subtitles or is dubbed in Thai and I am reading the English subtitles (the official and accurate ones from US produced DVDs). Afterall, Thai is a very polite language and not really as earthy as say the Cantonese dialect of Chinese or English.

My point is that if religious texts are altered by even a fraction of 1% by the translation or the cultural differences in interpetion, it would still be significant. Different cultures bring their own set of baggage and that obviously changes over time.

[StoopTroup]

The Earth is much older than 6000 years and all of this is explained in the 5TH Planet of the Apes Movies. In "Battle for the Planet of the Apes" the wizened Orangutang explains what eventually takes place over 600 years after Aldo died trying to get us all to co-exist.

Sheesh....You all really need to read up on your history....

[mgsooner]

Oh those kooky evangelists!!

[GKeeper316]

magnets... how do they work?????

[Boomer.....]

I also had this question once. I read that the 6 days that God created us are not actual days but periods of time.

[87sooner]

I also had this question once. I read that the 6 days that God created us are not actual days but periods of time.

Do you think God could not create the universe in six 24 hour days?

[Boomer.....]

I'm not saying that He couldn't but that is what I read in a bible. It was oneof the bibles for younger people which explains certain things that you might not understand.

[Peach Fuzz]

God: 'a thousand years, a day to him.'

all I could think of

[Chuck Bao]

I love the creation story. It is poetic. If you don't take it too literally and are open to how a poet would describe the science that we now know or believe, then it is very fitting.

[OU_Sooners75]

I farted the other day....and let me tell you, it smelled like something was dead for at least 6001 years! :O

[SanJoaquinSooner]

I also had this question once. I read that the 6 days that God created us are not actual days but periods of time.

how did the author know this?

[OU_Sooners75]

Do you think God could not create the universe in six 24 hour days?

Not to sound atheist or anything, because I am not....but what god?

Look at some of the ancient paintings. Is God really the leader an alien life form that is more advanced than we are? Are angels really just others in the life form?

Seriously, I am waiting for someone to give a reasonable explanation of what or who god is! I am not saying that God doesn't exist...but if he does, and he has done all this stuff in the past, why doesn't it still happen?

[Boomer.....]

Why doesn't what still happen? Our planet has been going for thousands of years.

Now our galaxy is just a drop of sand in a vast space so no one knows what is happening out there.

[starclassic tama]

well all of the stories of all this crazy stuff happening on earth in the bible, david and goliath, etc, nothing even remotely like that has happened since we have historical records we can rely on. so it makes the stories sound a little bit fishy.

[ouwasp]

I love to read WWII history... some years ago I ran across an interesting tidbit in Long Days Journey Into War by Stanley Weintraub. It's about the war developments in the 48 hr span that took in Dec 7 1941..

In the introduction Weintraub posits that perhaps the most calamitous December 7 was in 2347 BC, the date upon which Noah's flood began, as researched by Archbishop Ussher in 1597.

Just so you'd know. :)

[OU_Sooners75]

well all of the stories of all this crazy stuff happening on earth in the bible, david and goliath, etc, nothing even remotely like that has happened since we have historical records we can rely on. so it makes the stories sound a little bit fishy.


Weren't the American Colonists the Davids and the English Goliath?

[starclassic tama]

Weren't the American Colonists the Davids and the English Goliath?

yea that's true, but i'm talking about the supernatural type stuff. david and goliath wasn't really a good example. like jesus performing miracles, walking on water, being resurrected etc...

[AlboSooner]

Not to sound atheist or anything, because I am not....but what god?

Look at some of the ancient paintings. Is God really the leader an alien life form that is more advanced than we are? Are angels really just others in the life form?

Seriously, I am waiting for someone to give a reasonable explanation of what or who god is! I am not saying that God doesn't exist...but if he does, and he has done all this stuff in the past, why doesn't it still happen?

The Bible tells us that God is Spirit (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%204:24&version=NKJV). He is unmade, and had existed forever. No eye has seen (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%202:9&version=NKJV), and no mind can imagine what God looks like. The Bible says that seeing God is the greatest delight in creation. He has not revealed all the details about himself, as that it a reward for those who love him. To set eyes upon the living God, is it such an honor, that my best accolades fall short by an infinity of how really magnificent that moment will be for me.

We believe, in the past God had planned to give us salvation through Jesus, and almost all the miracles performed in the past served a purpose to bring forth salvation. After salvation came, then I don't think there is a need for miracles anymore, especially when we have something better left to us: The Holy Spirit. (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%2015:26&version=NKJV)

We would make a mistake to think of God as an utility to man's pleasure. One of the greatest mistakes we have done in the West, is to lose reverence for God. The Jews wouldn't even mention God's name out of deep respect, while we use it as a prelude to unholy language.

[AggieTool]

I have no problem with folks believing in mythology written by people thousands of years ago as long as they don't cut off heads or try to impose their beliefs on others through gov sponsorship.

As a Deist, I believe the very notion of an entity that can create the entire universe means that we certainly don't have the ability to comprehend it.

Kinda the way a paramecium can't comprehend the lab technician holding the petre dish.

I prefer not to diminish god down to our meager abilities.

[StoopTroup]

how did the author know this?

I guess no one could understand you with your heavy accent.

[AlboSooner]

I have no problem with folks believing in mythology written by people thousands of years ago as long as they don't cut off heads or try to impose their beliefs on others through gov sponsorship.

As a Deist, I believe the very notion of an entity that can create the entire universe means that we certainly don't have the ability to comprehend it.

Kinda the way a paramecium can't comprehend the lab technician holding the petre dish.

I prefer not to diminish god down to our meager abilities.

But you have....

[AggieTool]

But you have....

How so?

[StoopTroup]

How so?

By preferring Philosophy over Faith?

[AlboSooner]

How so?

I could be wrong, but here's what I get from your post. Please correct me if I misunderstood you.


As a Deist, I believe the very notion of an entity that can create the entire universe means that we certainly don't have the ability to comprehend it.

It takes ability to understand that there is God, and that he has made the universe, and that his ability is so great, and our understanding so small, that we really can't comprehend.




I prefer not to diminish god down to our meager abilities.
This in essence is a statement about God, made by our meager abilities.


Do I understand your post wrongly?

[StoopTroup]

Remember they are the meek. Sheep Herders were a part of the story....

[SanJoaquinSooner]

If I were writing the Bible, I'd have the sun and stars created on the day before the earth was made, instead of the day after. The 24 hour thing would make more sense that way.

And I wouldn't create the T Rex's and humans on the same day. Even cave men and women would have been scratching their heads over that.

[StoopTroup]

I would have mentioned how Scripture numbers related to being able to pick a winning ticket. :D ;)

[87sooner]

Not to sound atheist or anything, because I am not....but what god?

Look at some of the ancient paintings. Is God really the leader an alien life form that is more advanced than we are? Are angels really just others in the life form?

Seriously, I am waiting for someone to give a reasonable explanation of what or who god is! I am not saying that God doesn't exist...but if he does, and he has done all this stuff in the past, why doesn't it still happen?

obviously the bible is the best explanation of what/who God is.
there are many good books as well.
i doubt you have put much effort into finding out for yourself.

as far as "stuff" happening in the past but not now....
God had a different relationship with His people then...than He has now.
now it is all about the new covenant thru Jesus..
"stuff" still happens....but it is much more subtle...and begins in one's heart.

[Mjcpr]

Earf was created by Goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood.

Don't you fools watch my informative videos?

[87sooner]

well all of the stories of all this crazy stuff happening on earth in the bible, david and goliath, etc, nothing even remotely like that has happened since we have historical records we can rely on. so it makes the stories sound a little bit fishy.

see my post above....

[S.PadreIsl.Sooner]

People who take the Bible literally are retards....probably the same people who don't believe in evolution.

Barbara Bachman, Sarah Palin, Christine O'Donnell

[JohnnyMack]

Earf was created by Goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood.

Don't you fools watch my informative videos?

Mountain Dew....

[KuppiKunta]

Since animals Dont have souls comparing them to Mans Life is idiotic.;)


I thought you had a different stance in Wishbone's thread?

[Aldebaran]

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e118/Ald3baran/Religion/1-13.jpg

[87sooner]

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e118/Ald3baran/Religion/1-13.jpg



christian logic..
i can't prove it to you....you have to believe me....have faith....and prove it to yourself.

[Leroy Lizard]

Hey, I've had to argue with people that evolution was fact and that "theory" doesn't mean there is a chance it didn't happen.

Evolution is a scientific fact, which is a much weaker term than used in everyday language. A scientific fact can be disproven.

It is disingenuous of any scientist to use the word "fact" when speaking to laymen without clarifying how science uses the term.

[OhU1]

christian logic..
i can't prove it to you....you have to believe me....have faith....and prove it to yourself.

Take out the bolded part above and I would agree with you. If you want someone to believe you then you need to come with evidence ect.

[olevetonahill]

Back on topic peeps. Some one show me where it states in the Bible that the Earth is only 6000 years old

Ive heard Non believers use this to ridicule believers , Ive heard some believers state it as a fact

Show me WHERE.

[Leroy Lizard]

Back on topic peeps. Some one show me where it states in the Bible that the Earth is only 6000 years old

Ive heard Non believers use this to ridicule believers , Ive heard some believers state it as a fact

Show me WHERE.

It isn't stated; it's implied. Whether or not an implication is a worthy grounds for dismissing its contents is a matter of opinion. Frankly, I would no more refer to the Bible to measure the age of the Earth then to consult it for architectural designs. It's a silly argument all around, and both biologists and creationists share in the blame.

[87sooner]

Take out the bolded part above and I would agree with you. If you want someone to believe you then you need to come with evidence ect.

i have evidence....
it's not "holding a ball in my hand" evidence.....but it's evidence that is convincing to me...
it's evidence that would be ridiculed by many...
but to those willing to accept it....as the bible says "with childlike faith"...and are willing to humbly recognize their need for a savior and open their hearts ...they will soon have all the proof they need.

[Mississippi Sooner]

Remember they are the meek. Sheep Herders were a part of the story....

Or it could mean you're the righteous man and I'm the shepherd and it's the world that's evil and selfish. And I'd like that. But that **** ain't the truth. The truth is you're the weak. And I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin', Ringo. I'm tryin' real hard to be the shepherd.

[olevetonahill]

It isn't stated; it's implied. Whether or not an implication is a worthy grounds for dismissing its contents is a matter of opinion. Frankly, I would no more refer to the Bible to measure the age of the Earth then to consult it for architectural designs. It's a silly argument all around, and both biologists and creationists share in the blame.

So yer sayin Moses who wrote the 1st 6 books decided to Have everyone believ this?
Yer dumber than a box of rocks :rolleyes:

[87sooner]

Back on topic peeps. Some one show me where it states in the Bible that the Earth is only 6000 years old

Ive heard Non believers use this to ridicule believers , Ive heard some believers state it as a fact

Show me WHERE.

in the end....the age of the earth isn't all that important..
unless you're an unbeliever....then i guess it may be important..

[olevetonahill]

in the end....the age of the earth isn't all that important..
unless you're an unbeliever....then i guess it may be important..

Thats not the point either :rolleyes:

[Leroy Lizard]

So yer sayin Moses who wrote the 1st 6 books

:confused:

[olevetonahill]

:confused:

:rolleyes:

[Leroy Lizard]

:rolleyes:

Refresh my memory: Who wrote the first six books of The Bible, oh ye Biblical Scholar?

[87sooner]

Thats not the point either :rolleyes:

The bible does not tell us exactly when the earth/universe was made.
If it were an important fact...i'm sure it would have given us an exact time reference.
But as a believer in a risen Savior....i don't care how old the earth is.

[JohnnyMack]

Refresh my memory: Who wrote the first six books of The Bible, oh ye Biblical Scholar?

Illiterate sheep herders?

[saucysoonergal]

The bible does not tell us exactly when the earth/universe was made.
If it were an important fact...i'm sure it would have given us an exact time reference.
But as a believer in a risen Savior....i don't care how old the earth is.

Zoroastrian?

[jk the sooner fan]

the waiting line for hell just got a bit longer...






;)

[cccasooner2]

Yer dumber than a box of rocks :rolleyes:

Do you always shoot the messenger? :D

[cccasooner2]

the waiting line for hell just got a bit longer...






;)

I'm not standing in line, I've got a ticket (just needs punching).

[ouwasp]

When it comes to one's Christian faith, Beth Moore teaches there are "rib issues" and "backbone issues".

Age of the Earth is arguably a rib issue. The resurrection of Christ would be a backbone issue.

[OU_Sooners75]

The bible does not tell us exactly when the earth/universe was made.
If it were an important fact...i'm sure it would have given us an exact time reference.
But as a believer in a risen Savior....i don't care how old the earth is.


In all fairness, the bible gives no time references when any of the events in it occurred.

It says God created the universe and all that is in it in seven days. It states that he created human on the sixth day and rested on the seventh.

If this was true, then the human race should be almost as old as earth.

Is there? Evidence suggests that humans have only been around roughly 200,000 years. Evidence suggest that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old.

If God created the earth and humans within 6 days of each other, then one of his days is roughly 22,500 years.

[jumperstop]

Evolution is a scientific fact, which is a much weaker term than used in everyday language. A scientific fact can be disproven.

It is disingenuous of any scientist to use the word "fact" when speaking to laymen without clarifying how science uses the term.

All I told them was theory of gravity...Is gravity not real? I understand that it's not fact because our idea of it is not compete. But it for sure happened, same as the idea that for sure gravity exist.

[Howzit]

I also had this question once. I read that the 6 days that God created us are not actual days but periods of time.

I know we've only known each other four weeks and three days, but to me it seems like nine weeks and five days. The first day seemed like a week and the second day seemed like five days. And the third day seemed like a week again and the fourth day seemed like eight days. And the fifth day you went to see your mother and that seemed just like a day, and then you came back and later on the sixth day, in the evening, when we saw each other, that started seeming like two days, so in the evening it seemed like two days spilling over into the next day and that started seeming like four days, so at the end of the sixth day on into the seventh day, it seemed like a total of five days. And the sixth day seemed like a week and a half. I have it written down, but I can show it to you tomorrow if you want to see it.

[OU_Sooners75]

I know we've only known each other four weeks and three days, but to me it seems like nine weeks and five days. The first day seemed like a week and the second day seemed like five days. And the third day seemed like a week again and the fourth day seemed like eight days. And the fifth day you went to see your mother and that seemed just like a day, and then you came back and later on the sixth day, in the evening, when we saw each other, that started seeming like two days, so in the evening it seemed like two days spilling over into the next day and that started seeming like four days, so at the end of the sixth day on into the seventh day, it seemed like a total of five days. And the sixth day seemed like a week and a half. I have it written down, but I can show it to you tomorrow if you want to see it.

:gary:

:D:D:D:D:D

[saucysoonergal]

I know we've only known each other four weeks and three days, but to me it seems like nine weeks and five days. The first day seemed like a week and the second day seemed like five days. And the third day seemed like a week again and the fourth day seemed like eight days. And the fifth day you went to see your mother and that seemed just like a day, and then you came back and later on the sixth day, in the evening, when we saw each other, that started seeming like two days, so in the evening it seemed like two days spilling over into the next day and that started seeming like four days, so at the end of the sixth day on into the seventh day, it seemed like a total of five days. And the sixth day seemed like a week and a half. I have it written down, but I can show it to you tomorrow if you want to see it.

You've always seemed like a jerk to me.



;)

[Howzit]

I get that a lot.

[NormanPride]

It's the poo flinging.

[soonerbrat]

Ya think? :pop:

nerdhead.

[OU_Sooners75]

nerdhead.
Thank you!:D

We have a brat sighting! :eek:

[Leroy Lizard]

All I told them was theory of gravity...Is gravity not real? I understand that it's not fact because our idea of it is not compete. But it for sure happened, same as the idea that for sure gravity exist.

Evolution exists, just like gravity exists. We can replicate evolution, just like we can replicate gravity. But does evolution account for the origin of species? That is a much tougher question to answer.

This is where once again biologists are disingenuous. They scream "evolution is a fact" knowing all the while that they are referring only to the process and that the layman will think they are referring to the origin of species.

At one time Newton's second law was a given. Evidence for the law was overwhelming and it had (unlike evolution) true predictive power. But Newton's second law unraveled later. It's still a useful model for macroscopic processes, but I don't think anyone labels it "true" anymore.

We wouldn't have so many problems with this debate if both sides would cut the crap.

[Leroy Lizard]

Illiterate sheep herders?

Illiterate sheep herders wrote the Bible? If so, that would be strong evidence for Divine Intervention.

[OUMallen]

Do you think God could not create the universe in six 24 hour days?

Why the hell would it take him even that long? And why does he need rest?

[sooner_born_1960]

Universe creating is very taxing work.

[Mjcpr]

Universe creating is very taxing work.

I understand it is in the top 1% percentile.

[MR2-Sooner86]

Here's my problem.

Christian: The Bible is a set of stories that are representations and not to be taken literal.
Me: Oh so Adam and Eve was just a fancy way to describe how the Earth was made over billions of years?
Christian: Exactly!
Me: So Noah's flood was just a story of destruction, redemption, and forgiveness and didn't really happen?
Christian: Uhhh...yeah.
Me: So the story of Moses leading the people out of Egypt, which we have no evidence outside of the Bible for, is just an epic poem like Homer's Odyssey?
Christian: Umm...sure!
Me: So Jesus might've been a real person but he didn't rise from the dead and ascend into Heaven?
Christian: THAT'S REAL! THAT'S TRUE!
Me: How do you know?
Christian: I just know because I have faith and I speak to God.
Me: Well what about the other parts of the Bible you don't want me to take literal? How do I know which ones to take literal and which ones to not take literal?
Christian: Only God can tell you that.
Me: So I'll only know the real facts if I listen to the voices in my head?
Christian: Yes!
Me: So you hear voices in your head that command you to do things and what's real and not real?
Christian: Absolutely!
Me: Then why do you condemn schizophrenics who hear voices, calling them crazy, but I'm suppose to trust you?
Christian: They weren't really hearing God.
Me: How do you know?
Christian: God told me so.
Me: I'm going over here now....


Lets me now go over the important lessons I have learned from the King of Kings.

Elvis Aron Presly died in 1977.
He was born and lived in a time when most people in his land were literate.
We have many first hand reports of Elvis' life.
We have many reliable records: medical, musical, and otherwise.
Even so, there are people, lots of people who insist Elvis is not really dead. Sound familiar?
Even the dozens of books written by people who actually knew Elvis contain conflicting stories. Sound familiar?
There are people who insist Elvis did not do drugs. Sound familiar? Ok, maybe not that one.
We have photographs of Elvis, in the morgue, dead as a doornail, and in just 25 years there are stories that he's not dead.
In Fit for a King an important work delving into the Elvis eating habits, the author suggest to make Elvis' beloved fried chicken you'll need 3/4 a cup of flour, salt, paprika, and pepper.
In Are you Hungry Tonight the king's beloved fried chicken recipe calls for 1/2 a cup of flour, salt, and pepper.
These are glaring differences, 1/4 less flour, no paprika!?

Now, try figuring out which is the true Elvis chicken recipe 2,000 years from now.

Elvis didn't do no drugs!

[87sooner]

In all fairness, the bible gives no time references when any of the events in it occurred.

It says God created the universe and all that is in it in seven days. It states that he created human on the sixth day and rested on the seventh.

If this was true, then the human race should be almost as old as earth.

Is there? Evidence suggests that humans have only been around roughly 200,000 years. Evidence suggest that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old.

If God created the earth and humans within 6 days of each other, then one of his days is roughly 22,500 years.

you're right...there are no dates anywhere....which leads me to believe that WHEN events happened isn't important.

but time is important when talking about 40 years in the desert or 400 years of slavery....or 40 days fasting in the desert....or 40 days of rain...etc

[AlboSooner]

MR2, you need to talk to more prepared Christians, if you want to learn about the veracity of the Bible. The majority of our brethren don't have the time or the capacity to defend the faith. If you have an eBook reader, I have book that answers questions like Who made God, why the Bible, why can't the earth be eternal, why do we believe Jesus rose from the dead.

Would you be interested?

[OUMallen]

you're right...there are no dates anywhere....which leads me to believe that WHEN events happened isn't important.

but time is important when talking about 40 years in the desert or 400 years of slavery....or 40 days fasting in the desert....or 40 days of rain...etc

And what's up with all the 4s? Is that like a lunar month multiple or something?

[JohnnyMack]

MR2, you need to talk to more prepared Christians, if you want to learn about the veracity of the Bible. The majority of our brethren don't have the time or the capacity to defend the faith. If you have an eBook reader, I have book that answers questions like Who made God, why the Bible, why can't the earth be eternal, why do we believe Jesus rose from the dead.

Would you be interested?

Would you or have you read Joseph Campbell's The Power of Myth? I'll mail you my copy.

[Mississippi Sooner]

And what's up with all the 4s? Is that like a lunar month multiple or something?

On your 40th birthday, it will all become clear to you.

[87sooner]

Why the hell would it take him even that long? And why does he need rest?

it wouldn't.
he doesn't.

[OU_Sooners75]

you're right...there are no dates anywhere....which leads me to believe that WHEN events happened isn't important.

but time is important when talking about 40 years in the desert or 400 years of slavery....or 40 days fasting in the desert....or 40 days of rain...etc

There is no time references because they are stories and nothing more.

The great flood that overcame the earth? No evidence of such occurrence.
Garden of Eden, no evidence it ever existed.
Moses leading Israelites out of slavery, no evidence that it happened.
Jonah swallowed by a whale? really?
Jesus walking on water? Only document that happening is the bible. No other historical documents.
Jesus healing the blind? Got proof? Oh faith, right?
Enoch ascending to heaven? Sounds like an alien abduction to me.

Lets just face it, these are stories handed down from generation to generation to teach people about morals. Nothing more.

You can find similarities in stories from the bible and mythology (which has been around a lot longer than the bible).

[87sooner]

Here's my problem.

Christian: The Bible is a set of stories that are representations and not to be taken literal.


here's my problem...
christians that say that don't have a clue...

[MR2-Sooner86]

MR2, you need to talk to more prepared Christians, if you want to learn about the veracity of the Bible. The majority of our brethren don't have the time or the capacity to defend the faith. If you have an eBook reader, I have book that answers questions like Who made God, why the Bible, why can't the earth be eternal, why do we believe Jesus rose from the dead.

Would you be interested?

I already have read and/or own these.

http://www.prayerfoundation.org/books/book_r15.jpghttp://pixhost.info/avaxhome/2008-02-15/thecaseforfaithCf.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9e/The_Case_for_a_Creator.jpg

Nicely written books but not enough to sway me.

[AlboSooner]

Would you or have you read Joseph Campbell's The Power of Myth? I'll mail you my copy.

I haven't read it. I would read it. Would you read God and Other Minds: A Study of the Rational Justification of Belief in God, by Plantinga?

MR2, you didn't answer my question.

[87sooner]

There is no time references because they are stories and nothing more.

The great flood that overcame the earth? No evidence of such occurrence.
Garden of Eden, no evidence it ever existed.
Moses leading Israelites out of slavery, no evidence that it happened.
Jonah swallowed by a whale? really?
Jesus walking on water? Only document that happening is the bible. No other historical documents.
Jesus healing the blind? Got proof? Oh faith, right?
Enoch ascending to heaven? Sounds like an alien abduction to me.

Lets just face it, these are stories handed down from generation to generation to teach people about morals. Nothing more.

You can find similarities in stories from the bible and mythology (which has been around a lot longer than the bible).


you have your mind made up.....i'm not going to change it.
and neither would a time/day stamp on all those events you mentioned.

[OU_Sooners75]

I haven't read it. I would read it. Would you read God and Other Minds: A Study of the Rational Justification of Belief in God, by Plantinga?


I would, but I don't have an ebook reader.

Need to get one though.

[AlboSooner]

I would, but I don't have an ebook reader.

Need to get one though.

I don't have a paperback version of the previous book I mentioned. You need to get a Kindle or something :D

[OU_Sooners75]

you have your mind made up.....i'm not going to change it.
and neither would a time/day stamp on all those events you mentioned.

That's not the point.

You believe them as being real events. I believe them as moral teachings.

I do not consider myself a Christian, because it would not be fair to that religion.

I do believe there is a higher power. But I also am open minded enough to understand not to take the Christian bible literally.

I spent 4 years studying the bible. It is a very good read. It teaches a lot. But at the same time, there are a lot of stories that are hogwash in them...only to be taught to teach lessons.

[MR2-Sooner86]

here's my problem...
christians that say that don't have a clue...

So the entire Bible is to be taken literal?

Adam and Eve were the first two people?
They were created around a few thousand years ago?
There was a great flood and Noah and his family were the only ones to survive?
Jonah lived inside a 'great fish' for three days?
Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were thrown into a fire and survived?
Jesus was born from a virgin?
Jesus died and rose from the head three days later?
Lot's wife turned into salt when looking back at Sodom and Gomorrah being destroyed?

[Leroy Lizard]

Here's my problem.

Christian: The Bible is a set of stories that are representations and not to be taken literal.
Me: Oh so Adam and Eve was just a fancy way to describe how the Earth was made over billions of years?
Christian: Exactly!
Me: So Noah's flood was just a story of destruction, redemption, and forgiveness and didn't really happen?
Christian: Uhhh...yeah.
Me: So the story of Moses leading the people out of Egypt, which we have no evidence outside of the Bible for, is just an epic poem like Homer's Odyssey?
Christian: Umm...sure!
Me: So Jesus might've been a real person but he didn't rise from the dead and ascend into Heaven?
Christian: THAT'S REAL! THAT'S TRUE!
Me: How do you know?
Christian: I just know because I have faith and I speak to God.
Me: Well what about the other parts of the Bible you don't want me to take literal? How do I know which ones to take literal and which ones to not take literal?
Christian: Only God can tell you that.
Me: So I'll only know the real facts if I listen to the voices in my head?
Christian: Yes!
Me: So you hear voices in your head that command you to do things and what's real and not real?
Christian: Absolutely!
Me: Then why do you condemn schizophrenics who hear voices, calling them crazy, but I'm suppose to trust you?
Christian: They weren't really hearing God.
Me: How do you know?
Christian: God told me so.
Me: I'm going over here now....


This takes the straw man fallacy to whole new level.

[Howzit]

I spent 4 years studying the bible. It is a very good read. It teaches a lot. But at the same time, there are a lot of stories that are hogwash in them...only to be taught to teach lessons.

This would be 8.9 years in Jerk-time, for those of you playing at home.

[AlboSooner]

Once God is established as a foundation, then the question really becomes this:
Are these miracles too great that an infinite, all powerful God can't do?

[sooner_born_1960]

I would, but I don't have an ebook reader.

Need to get one though.
You can get free ebook readers for your PC.

[MR2-Sooner86]

This takes the straw man fallacy to whole new level.

Funny because I've had conversations go like that.

[87sooner]

So the entire Bible is to be taken literal?

they are to be taken in context...


Adam and Eve were the first two people?

yes



They were created around a few thousand years ago?

yes



There was a great flood and Noah and his family were the only ones to survive?

yes



Jonah lived inside a 'great fish' for three days?

yes...but i'd have to look up how many days....can't remember..



Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were thrown into a fire and survived?

i don't think the the bible says they "survived"...
it says they were seen walking around inside the furnace.


Jesus was born from a virgin?


yes



Jesus died and rose from the head three days later?

yes



Lot's wife turned into salt when looking back at Sodom and Gomorrah being destroyed?

i will have to refresh my memory on this one and get back to you

[OU_Sooners75]

This would be 8.9 years in Jerk-time, for those of you playing at home.

Damn, now Im a jerk?:mad:

[OU_Sooners75]

You can get free ebook readers for your PC.


Not unless they are compatible with Windows 2000 pro.
But I will look into it.

[AlboSooner]

Damn, now Im a jerk?:mad:

I think he meant himself. He was joking, trying to lighten up the mood. I lol'd.

[OU_Sooners75]

I think he meant himself. He was joking, trying to lighten up the mood. I lol'd.


Oh, I did as well.

[JohnnyMack]

I don't believe in the devil, but if I did I'd be convinced he unleashed the eBook reader on us. It's pure evil. Books should have pages. Kindles and all their brethren can go die in a fire.

[87sooner]

That's not the point.

You believe them as being real events. I believe them as moral teachings.

I do not consider myself a Christian, because it would not be fair to that religion.

I do believe there is a higher power. But I also am open minded enough to understand not to take the Christian bible literally.

I spent 4 years studying the bible. It is a very good read. It teaches a lot. But at the same time, there are a lot of stories that are hogwash in them...only to be taught to teach lessons.

so these people wrote books about spectacular events and a man doing miracles that never happened....and claiming to be the son of God (lying).....and lied about Him rising from the dead....
and you believe that teaches us MORALS?????

no wonder this world is so f'ed up;)

[OUMallen]

i don't think the the bible says they "survived"...
it says they were seen walking around inside the furnace.




In Daniel Chapter 3, Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego were sent into a blazing fiery furnace because of their stand to exclusively serve their God alone. By God’s angel, they were delivered out of harm’s way from this order of execution by the King of Babylon.
The story takes place during the reign of King Nebuchadnezzar II of Babylon, who had a nine-story high statue made of gold erected in the plain of Dura[v.1] (The region around present day Karbala, Iraq).[2] The statue was either an image of himself or possibly of the Babylonian god of wisdom, known as Nabu.[3] When the project was complete, he prepared a dedication ceremony to this image ordering all surrounding inhabitants to bow down and worship it. The consequence for not worshiping the idol, upon hearing the queue of instruments, was execution in a fiery furnace.[v.2-9] During the dedication ceremony, certain officials noticed Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego not bowing down to the idol. Thus, Nebuchadnezzar was immediately notified.[v.10-12]
The King was enraged and demanded that these three men come before him.[v.13] Nebuchadnezzar knew of these very men, because it wasn’t too long ago when Daniel had petitioned the King to assign Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego over the affairs of the province of Babylon.[Daniel 2: 48, 49] Daniel was also very special to the King because he was able to interpret his dreams unlike any of the Chaldean wise men.[Daniel 2: 24, 25] So it is of no surprise that the King would offer one more chance for these three Jews, who held honorable positions to the King, to show their patriotism to Babylon.[v.14, 15]
Their response: "O Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to defend ourselves before you in this matter. If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to save us from it, and he will rescue us from your hand, O king. But even if he does not, we want you to know, O king, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up."[v.16-18]
Nebuchadnezzar demanded that the execution furnace be heated seven times hotter than usual. Valiant soldiers of the King’s army were ordered to firmly bind the fully clothed Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego and cast them in the blazing furnace. Upon approaching the mouth of the furnace, the fire was so hot that the soldiers perished while attempting to throw in the three tightly bound Jews (who then fell in).[v.19-23]
An angel of God immediately came to deliver the three men from the furnace releasing them from their ties. When the King saw what appeared to be four men in the furnace, unbound and walking about, he called to them to come out. King Nebuchadnezzar then acknowledged the power of their God, even going as far as to make a decree, whereby any nation who says anything against the God of the Jews is an act of war. Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego were then given promotions to their positions over the province of Babylon.[v.24-30]

[87sooner]

there ya go...yes..they survived...

[Aldebaran]

they are to be taken in context...



yes




yes




yes



yes...but i'd have to look up how many days....can't remember..




i don't think the the bible says they "survived"...
it says they were seen walking around inside the furnace.




yes




yes




i will have to refresh my memory on this one and get back to you


When I read the answers to your questions, and reflect on it... It's amazing to me that people don't see how this is no different than the folks who thought they could hop on the spaceship hiding behind hale-bopp and live forever. We could have gone with them. But we couldn't stay here and go with them.

[OU_Sooners75]

so these people wrote books about spectacular events and a man doing miracles that never happened....and claiming to be the son of God (lying).....and lied about Him rising from the dead....
and you believe that teaches us MORALS?????

no wonder this world is so f'ed up;)

You obviously have kept a narrow mind in your life.

Ever read any of the mythology books?
You may find they have a very similar ring to them as stories in the bible.

I suggest you do read some of them.

Then you should go back and read the bible and actually study it. You may find that the analogies and events are meant to teach a lesson.

The story of Jesus being that you will be forgiven for living a life filled with mistakes. That he is the portal to true forgiveness in the eyes of God.

The story of Noah's flood being that if you live a life of evil, then you will certainly die a terrible death.

The story of creation to set in place the origins of man-kind.

so on so forth.

[AlboSooner]

I don't believe in the devil, but if I did I'd be convinced he unleashed the eBook reader on us. It's pure evil. Books should have pages. Kindles and all their brethren can go die in a fire.

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee483/albosooner/hurr.png

[MR2-Sooner86]

they are to be taken in context...

So according to you we had two white people who were created in the jungle. They ****ed and now we got people. We got black people, Arab people, Asian people, Latinos, and for the amount of inbreeding very few retards.

Also, Noah made the door to the Ark very small so the dinosaurs couldn't get through cause he was a thinker.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[cccasooner2]

......I spent 4 years studying the bible. It is a very good read. It teaches a lot. But at the same time, there are a lot of stories that are hogwash in them...only to be taught to teach lessons.

Wow, there's that number again.

[soonerbrat]

Do you think God could not create the universe in six 24 hour days?

do you really think that a day to God is only 24 hours? there are many many things in the universe, some days are way longer than 24 earth hours. What is 24 hours to someone who has all eternity?

[87sooner]

do you really think that a day to God is only 24 hours? there are many many things in the universe, some days are way longer than 24 earth hours. What is 24 hours to someone who has all eternity?

the bible was written by men...they wrote it in terms they understood.
it says a "day".....i have no problem believing it was a 24 hour day....
the God i worship could have created the universe in a second if He wanted to.
He chose to do it in 6 days and rest on the seventh for a reason.
He could have created it 6000 years ago and made it to look a billion years old to human beings....
He didn't create adam as a baby....He created him as a full grown adult..
He didn't create eggs and then provide warmth to hatch them....He created mature birds....
and so on...

God: oh by the way...I created these cool light thingies but you'll have to wait a few million years before you'll be able to see them....;)

[87sooner]

You obviously have kept a narrow mind in your life.

Ever read any of the mythology books?
You may find they have a very similar ring to them as stories in the bible.

I suggest you do read some of them.

Then you should go back and read the bible and actually study it. You may find that the analogies and events are meant to teach a lesson.

The story of Jesus being that you will be forgiven for living a life filled with mistakes. That he is the portal to true forgiveness in the eyes of God.

The story of Noah's flood being that if you live a life of evil, then you will certainly die a terrible death.

The story of creation to set in place the origins of man-kind.

so on so forth.


the bible is not a textbook......you can "study" it...and you'll get exactly what you got....nothing...
it must be read with an open heart....not just an open mind...

[JohnnyMack]

I haven't read it. I would read it. Would you read God and Other Minds: A Study of the Rational Justification of Belief in God, by Plantinga?

MR2, you didn't answer my question.

I think his stuff is more of philosophical discussion as to why people (and/or cultures) need religion. That's not something I would debate against. I feel like you and I could in a paragraph or two come up with an acceptable set of parameters as to the "why" religion exists.

What I like about the book The Power of Myth is that it gives historical context of cultures and their establishment of religion. It shows that the foundations of Christianity weren't anything new or revolutionary, that the information contained in the Bible are part of a wider, more ubiquitous set of stories that flourished in the region before and during a period of about 2,000 years ago. Many of the classic mythology that comprises the Bible can be found in religions that predate the time when someone named Jesus of Nazareth lived. It's not dismissive of any particular faith, it just puts Christianity into the context of the period; it shows that its fables and parables were common themes across both time and space.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? then is he impotent.
Is he able, but not willing? then is he malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? whence then is evil?

I do love Epicurus

[OU_Sooners75]

the bible is not a textbook......you can "study" it...and you'll get exactly what you got....nothing...
it must be read with an open heart....not just an open mind...


Good lord, you sound just like anyone else that has no idea what they are talking about.

You can study it for the lessons in life, morals, whatever you wish.

Open heart? My heart is open. If I am able, I am the first to give to those that are in need. I am the first to say sorry for offending someone. I am the first to have my heart broken of a event that is tragic.

Open heart? That is your brain...that is your thinking and understanding of things.

Glad you have faith...I really am. But the bible is nothing more than a bunch of stories to teach us lessons in life. To give us morals. It is not to be taken literal and people that do, are very naive.

That is not saying that I do not believe God does not exist. It is just that I think the Bible is a text book to teach me and others morals.

You know the other thing I find weird about the bible? None of it was written in real time of the events. The books of the new testament were not written until at least 60 or so years after Jesus.

So yeah...let me tell you some of those stories are told as fact.:rolleyes:

[Fraggle145]

Evolution exists, just like gravity exists. We can replicate evolution, just like we can replicate gravity. But does evolution account for the origin of species? That is a much tougher question to answer.

This is where once again biologists are disingenuous. They scream "evolution is a fact" knowing all the while that they are referring only to the process and that the layman will think they are referring to the origin of species.

At one time Newton's second law was a given. Evidence for the law was overwhelming and it had (unlike evolution) true predictive power. But Newton's second law unraveled later. It's still a useful model for macroscopic processes, but I don't think anyone labels it "true" anymore.

We wouldn't have so many problems with this debate if both sides would cut the crap.

How many ****ing times do I have to say this? Evolution has nothing to do with the beginning of life. Once life began it started acting. There is much debate about the process of how evolution actually worked during the early periods of life as well. But Evolution cannot act on nothing. Life had to happen on its own (or by god or whatever the hell).

[cccasooner2]

"Nebuchadnezzar demanded that the execution furnace be heated seven times hotter than usual. Valiant soldiers of the King’s army were ordered to firmly bind the fully clothed Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego and cast them in the blazing furnace. Upon approaching the mouth of the furnace, the fire was so hot that the soldiers perished while attempting to throw in the three tightly bound Jews (who then fell in).[v.19-23]"

How did they make the fire 7 times hotter than usual?

Wood burns at about 1170K, 7 times would put it at 8190K (about another 2000K above the boiling point of tungsten, 5933 K).

[JohnnyMack]

How many ****ing times do I have to say this? Evolution has nothing to do with the beginning of life. Once life began it started acting. There is much debate about the process of how evolution actually worked during the early periods of life as well. But Evolution cannot act on nothing. Life had to happen on its own (or by god or whatever the hell).

Must. Resist. Leroid.

[MR2-Sooner86]

MR2, you didn't answer my question.

I'm good. As seen, I've got books on the subject already.

[saucysoonergal]

How did they make the fire 7 times hotter than usual?



They threw in some swimsuit models.

[OUDoc]

They threw in some swimsuit models.

Mmmmmm.....biblical swimsuit models.......

[saucysoonergal]

Mmmmmm.....biblical swimsuit models.......

Those old testament swimsuit models were H-O-T, Whet told me so! ;)

[Leroy Lizard]

How many ****ing times do I have to say this? Evolution has nothing to do with the beginning of life.

One small problem: I never said it did.

[MR2-Sooner86]

They threw in me.

:rolleyes:

[Leroy Lizard]

So according to you we had two white people who were created in the jungle. They ****ed and now we got people. We got black people, Arab people, Asian people, Latinos, and for the amount of inbreeding very few retards.

This is the level of argumentation that makes these religious discussions completely pointless.

[saucysoonergal]

:rolleyes:

I'm not hot, just saucy. If they threw you in they could have a nice pig roast!!! ;)

[cccasooner2]

One small problem: I never said it did.

In a strawman argument you would have.

[OU_Sooners75]

I'm not hot, just saucy. If they threw you in they could have a nice pig roast!!! ;)


Oh Snap!

http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/6/6/ohsnap128572360384139771.jpg

[Mississippi Sooner]

I remember once back when the debate was raging on whether The Living Bible was an accurate translation or not, an old woman actually said, "the King James Version was good enough for St. Paul, so it's good enough for me!"

[Leroy Lizard]

In a strawman argument you would have.

I'm getting blamed for something I would have done? :confused:

[Leroy Lizard]

I would like to take this time to thank olevet for hosting this in-depth discussion on religious issues. We have gained considerable insight through the shared ideas and mutual respect exhibited by our members. Although we have made tremendous strides, I look forward to future dialog on religion, for there is still much work to be done on settling this age-old debate once and for all. olevet, you are a true catalyst for social progress.

[87sooner]

Good lord, you sound just like anyone else that has no idea what they are talking about.

You can study it for the lessons in life, morals, whatever you wish.

Open heart? My heart is open. If I am able, I am the first to give to those that are in need. I am the first to say sorry for offending someone. I am the first to have my heart broken of a event that is tragic.

Open heart? That is your brain...that is your thinking and understanding of things.

Glad you have faith...I really am. But the bible is nothing more than a bunch of stories to teach us lessons in life. To give us morals. It is not to be taken literal and people that do, are very naive.

That is not saying that I do not believe God does not exist. It is just that I think the Bible is a text book to teach me and others morals.

You know the other thing I find weird about the bible? None of it was written in real time of the events. The books of the new testament were not written until at least 60 or so years after Jesus.

So yeah...let me tell you some of those stories are told as fact.:rolleyes:


so you believe NONE of the "stories" in the bible are true?
nothing in the bible actually happened?

[KuppiKunta]

What about the dinosaurs?











PS The real ones, not vet

[OU_Sooners75]

I would like to take this time to thank olevet for hosting this in-depth discussion on religious issues. We have gained considerable insight through the shared ideas and mutual respect exhibited by our members. Although we have made tremendous strides, I look forward to future dialog on religion, for there is still much work to be done on settling this age-old debate once and for all. olevet, you are a true catalyst for social progress.

http://www.myextralife.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/obsession1.jpg

[MR2-Sooner86]

This is the level of argumentation that makes these religious discussions completely pointless.

It's true. Where do all the races come from if only two people started everything? Not to mention the inbreeding required. How can that be explained? Not to mentions we have Chinese and Native American cultures separated from the Middle East not connected at all. Not to mention all the non-Judeo Christian cultures in the region having similar stories about great floods, Jesus like demi-gods, ect.

I'm sorry but if you claim the Bible is 100% fact, be ready to defend yourself or be ridiculed out of the room. People who claim Noah and the flood happened as described in the Bible are up there with 747 3D movie theater Scientologist.

[saucysoonergal]

I'm sorry but if you claim the Bible is 100% fact, be ready to defend yourself or be ridiculed out of the room. People who claim Noah and the flood happened as described in the Bible are up there with 747 3D movie theater Scientologist.

You mean Gilgamesh?

[OU_Sooners75]

so you believe NONE of the "stories" in the bible are true?
nothing in the bible actually happened?


There may be some hint to the truth in a few of them, yes, but not a literal truth behind them.

Like I said in another post.

There is no evidence that the world has seen a flood like that of Noah's flood. I think the flood was more of a local occurrence.

There is no evidence that Humans began when the earth began.

There is no evidence that Jesus was able to walk on water. Or heal with a touch.

There is no evidence that anyone got turned to salt because they looked back at a disaster, which was more than likely a natural disaster.

There is no evidence that the Garden of Eden ever existed.

[Leroy Lizard]

1. That's my schtick.

2. olevet and StoopTroup, despite their severe IQ limitations, are quite capable of fighting this battle all by their wee brainless selves.


http://www.myextralife.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/obsession1.jpg

[OUMallen]

How many ****ing times do I have to say this? Evolution has nothing to do with the beginning of life. Once life began it started acting. There is much debate about the process of how evolution actually worked during the early periods of life as well. But Evolution cannot act on nothing. Life had to happen on its own (or by god or whatever the hell).

Like YOU have any background, training, or education on this matter!!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

[Leroy Lizard]

I'm sorry but if you claim the Bible is 100% fact, be ready to defend yourself or be ridiculed out of the room. People who claim Noah and the flood happened as described in the Bible are up there with 747 3D movie theater Scientologist.

First of all, I never did. Second of all, these "gotcha" type arguments are offered up countless times in these debates, and they are countered countless times in these debates. (I'm not a Biblical scholar -- I believe in Evolution, for example, so I'm not the one to ask. Most likely you will be told that we have multiple races on Earth because God continues to play a role in our lives.)

But more to the point: Your Kindergarten level of banter doesn't make these arguments worthwhile. If you have a point you want considered, pose it like a mature adult.

[Leroy Lizard]

Like YOU have any background, training, or education on this matter!!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

Irrelevant, for I never said anything of the kind in the first place. Fraggle is just one of those guys who takes disagreement on evolution as a personal affront. Why? Damned if I know.

[Jacie]

I still believe Division I football would be better served by a playoff than the current BCS nonsense . . .

[saucysoonergal]

I still believe Division I football would be better served by a playoff than the current BCS nonsense . . .

Quit stirring the pot!




;)

[JohnnyMack]

Irrelevant, for I never said anything of the kind in the first place. Fraggle is just one of those guys who takes disagreement on evolution as a personal affront. Why? Damned if I know.

Good thing you never take disagreements too far.

[soonerbrat]

the bible was written by men...they wrote it in terms they understood.
it says a "day".....i have no problem believing it was a 24 hour day....
the God i worship could have created the universe in a second if He wanted to.
He chose to do it in 6 days and rest on the seventh for a reason.
He could have created it 6000 years ago and made it to look a billion years old to human beings....
He didn't create adam as a baby....He created him as a full grown adult..
He didn't create eggs and then provide warmth to hatch them....He created mature birds....
and so on...

God: oh by the way...I created these cool light thingies but you'll have to wait a few million years before you'll be able to see them....;)

it's pretty arrogant to think that the universe revolves around earthlings. And people are stupid. there have been so many translations of the bible into so many different languages it's ridiculous. have you ever tried to play "operator"? you can't make it 10 minutes through 15 people speaking the same language without something getting changed. you really think it could last 2000 years through hundreds of languages with people not changing things for their own benefit? If you think the original words went through the centuries of translation without different interpretations, you are just fooling yourself. Not to mention that there were many more than 4 gospels and many more books written for the new testament, and one guy got to decide which would go in there and which would be left out.

I also thing it is very presumptuous of people to even think they could know or understand what God thinks. I hate those billboards that people put up and sign them -God. we humans could never even come close to comprehending that much.

[OhU1]

the bible is not a textbook......you can "study" it...and you'll get exactly what you got....nothing...
it must be read with an open heart....not just an open mind...

My heart pumps blood, it does no thinking, what are you talking about?

You mean we should suspend the critical thought process and grant the Bible a special exception that no other book and no other area of life gets?

Should we read the Koran "with an open mind"? Have you?

[cccasooner2]

First of all, I never did. Second of all, these "gotcha" type arguments are offered up countless times in these debates, and they are countered countless times in these debates. (I'm not a Biblical scholar -- I believe in Evolution, for example, so I'm not the one to ask. Most likely you will be told that we have multiple races on Earth because God continues to play a role in our lives.)

But more to the point: Your Kindergarten level of banter doesn't make these arguments worthwhile. If you have a point you want considered, pose it like a mature adult.


I don't believe MR2 meant the paranoid you, but rather the 100%ers.

[cccasooner2]

Not to mention that there were many more than 4 gospels and many more books written for the new testament, and one guy got to decide which would go in there and which would be left out.

Groucho, the secret word is four.

[OU_Sooners75]

2. olevet and StoopTroup, despite their severe IQ limitations, are quite capable of fighting this battle all by their wee brainless selves.


Oh yeah...because you are such a great mind. :rolleyes:

[Leroy Lizard]

Good thing you never take disagreements too far.

I remain quite cool, calm, and collected throughout.

[87sooner]

You mean we should suspend the critical thought process and grant the Bible a special exception that no other book and no other area of life gets?




that is correct.
it's the only book that contains the inspired word of God.
each and every word.
read it any other way and you're wasting your time.

[Leroy Lizard]

My heart pumps blood, it does no thinking, what are you talking about?

Oh yes, the scholarly dialog continues. :rolleyes:



You mean we should suspend the critical thought process and grant the Bible a special exception that no other book and no other area of life gets?

Yes, because it is the Bible. It is not being offered up for submission to a peer-reviewed journal.


Should we read the Koran "with an open mind"? Have you?

No, because it is the Koran, not the Bible. The Bible holds a special place for those who read it and embrace it. Readers of the Koran probably feel the same way about their text. (Although they are wrong. Heh.)

[Leroy Lizard]

that is correct.
it's the only book that contains the inspired word of God.
each and every word.
read it any other way and you're wasting your time.

He nailed it.

[JohnnyMack]

You are such a jackass.

[Leroy Lizard]

Oh yeah...because you are such a great mind. :rolleyes:

Still pissed off about that playoff argument, heh?

[OU_Sooners75]

Still pissed off about that playoff argument, heh?


:gary:

[Leroy Lizard]

You are such a jackass.

It didn't take long for Johnny Mack to rever to form.

[JohnnyMack]

It didn't take long for Johnny Mack to rever to form.

Everything will be fine as long as you believe exactly the way I do.

Sincerely,

Leroid.

[crawfish]

that is correct.
it's the only book that contains the inspired word of God.
each and every word.
read it any other way and you're wasting your time.

Which language and which translation? Words are actually added and removed when you translate from one language to another. There are more words in the KJV than in its translated sources, for the record. There are 788,258 words in the KJV; 727,969 in the NIV.

The bible IS the inspired word of God - but what is inspired are the ideas, not the individual selection of words.

[Leroy Lizard]

Everything will be fine as long as you believe exactly the way I do.

Sincerely,

Leroid.

Well, it's preferable than seeing everything the way you do.

[Leroy Lizard]

Which language and which translation? Words are actually added and removed when you translate from one language to another.

The Bible is not simply a collection of words to be dissected by linguists. It has more meaning than that, and those that don't experience it will never understand.

[87sooner]

it's pretty arrogant to think that the universe revolves around earthlings.

not arrogant at all...it's what the bible tells us...





And people are stupid. there have been so many translations of the bible into so many different languages it's ridiculous. have you ever tried to play "operator"? you can't make it 10 minutes through 15 people speaking the same language without something getting changed. you really think it could last 2000 years through hundreds of languages with people not changing things for their own benefit? If you think the original words went through the centuries of translation without different interpretations, you are just fooling yourself. Not to mention that there were many more than 4 gospels and many more books written for the new testament, and one guy got to decide which would go in there and which would be left out.


do you know what "inspired word of God" means?
if God can inspire man to write His word for all of mankind's benefit...don't you think He can also inspire translators and that "one guy" who decided "what would go in there"?




I also thing it is very presumptuous of people to even think they could know or understand what God thinks. I hate those billboards that people put up and sign them -God. we humans could never even come close to comprehending that much.

the bible was given to us so that we could know what God wants for our lives.......His will.
what the bible doesn't tell us....the Holy Spirit will.

[87sooner]

Which language and which translation? Words are actually added and removed when you translate from one language to another. There are more words in the KJV than in its translated sources, for the record. There are 788,258 words in the KJV; 727,969 in the NIV.

The bible IS the inspired word of God - but what is inspired are the ideas, not the individual selection of words.

you're correct....which is why you can take your pick of translations/languages....

[Leroy Lizard]

This thread sucks. I'm done.

[GKeeper316]

it's the only book that contains the inspired word of God.


if you know anything at all about the history of the bible, you know that isn't true.

the bible is just a collection of hebrew folklore (torah/old testament) and the gospels (first one written by luke almost 40 years after christ died)

these books were voted on by the council of bishops at nicea sometime in the 4th century ( i think. i get a bit muddled on dates when i don't have the references pulled up)

protestants changed the old testament when they made their bible, leaving out 8 books they didn't like. the council of nicea left out over 80 other gospels that didnt play up christ's divinity. read the gospel of st. thomas if you want the most accurate account of the living jesus. read the gospel of mary magdaline.

the bible is just a book, written by men, assembled by men for the purpose of giving all the power over religion to the newly established church of rome.

[OU_Sooners75]

87, if the bible said to drink cyanide, would you?

[AggieTool]

I could be wrong, but here's what I get from your post. Please correct me if I misunderstood you.

Our "understanding" is limited, so we diminish God to fit our ability to do so.

For example, we put "him" in human form and assign our own values to "him", and then say it comes from "him" as to compel compliance.

In reality, if there is a god, "its" form, thoughts, and purpose are beyond our ability to comprehend since the vastness of the universe itself is incomprehensible.

Don't confuse awareness and observation with comprehension.

How arrogant and self-centered we are to assume "God" is preoccupied with ghey butseks or what we have for dinner on Friday, or which way we point our *** when we pray.

Everything "we" proclaim to know about god comes from our own constructs as passed down through texts written by humans.

It is after all faith....blind faith.

[starclassic tama]

i always wondered why god doesn't reveal himself to us in an obvious way, in this day and age. why make his loved children play the guessing game, and punish them with eternal damnation if they don't believe a book that makes no logical sense? it seems like he devised this experiment thousands of years ago, and then withdrew from the world to watch and wait to see who fails the test.

[cccasooner2]

This thread sucks. I'm done.

I think one of them sooner girlz should get olevet a well deserved sammich.

[OU_Sooners75]

the bible was given to us so that we could know what God wants for our lives.......His will.
what the bible doesn't tell us....the Holy Spirit will.


"I could get a good look at a T-Bone by sticking my head up the bulls ***, but I would rather take the butchers word for it."

:D

[87sooner]

i always wondered why god doesn't reveal himself to us in an obvious way, in this day and age. why make his loved children play the guessing game, and punish them with eternal damnation if they don't believe a book that makes no logical sense? it seems like he devised this experiment thousands of years ago, and then withdrew from the world to watch and wait to see who fails the test.

God revealed Himself to man continually....starting from the first man created..
yet over and over man turned their backs on God and went their own way....

are you so convinced you would believe if God revealed Himself to you today?

if you think so....and you've taken a good look around outside lately and yet you still don't believe.....

[cccasooner2]

i always wondered why god doesn't reveal himself to us in an obvious way, in this day and age. why make his loved children play the guessing game, and punish them with eternal damnation if they don't believe a book that makes no logical sense? it seems like he devised this experiment thousands of years ago, and then withdrew from the world to watch and wait to see who fails the test.

He's waiting for a better version of X-Box.

[87sooner]

"I could get a good look at a T-Bone by sticking my head up the bulls ***, but I would rather take the butchers word for it."

:D

i have a hunch you're speaking from experience.

[OU_Sooners75]

God revealed Himself to man continually....starting from the first man created..
yet over and over man turned their backs on God and went their own way....

are you so convinced you would believe if God revealed Himself to you today?

if you think so....and you've taken a good look around outside lately and yet you still don't believe.....


Got proof that man was just created and not evolved creatures?

[OU_Sooners75]

i have a hunch you're speaking from experience.

Wow...if you didn't catch that movie quote, there really is no hope for you! :texan:

[87sooner]

Got proof that man was just created and not evolved creatures?

you have any proof man are evolved creatures?

[PhiDeltBeers]

I think God intends this thread to surpass "Delete me".

[OU_Sooners75]

you have any proof man are evolved creatures?


Well, I guess that is one way to answer a question you don't have an answer for....with another question.

I want to believe we were just created...however, evidence with us being so closely related to the Ape species is pretty compelling to say the least.

So I ask again, do you have proof, or evidence rather, that mankind was just created?

Let me guess, your answer is that the bible told you, right?

[crawfish]

FYI, most Christians don't believe in a 6,000-year-old earth. Many of us fully accept evolutionary theory. We don't read the bible as a blow-by-blow historical or scientific description of its content, but as inspired word written using the original human author's knowledge, worldview, literary styling and method of delivery. "History", as we know it (a presentation of proven facts representing real, chronological events), was not fully popularized until well after the death of Christ. Stories were told with purpose in mind rather than accuracy.

For instance: we would balk at reading the story of George Washington cutting down a cherry tree as a youth in a history book, because we know it didn't actually happen the way it was presented. However, an ancient audience wouldn't really care because the story represented some attribute of the character of Washington, and that would be the ultimate purpose of the story.

I believe that Genesis 1 is "temple theology". It is structured in a way that emulates how an ancient Mesopotamian temple would have been dedicated. Such a temple would be dedicated over a seven-day period. The story represents the building of the temple (days 1-3), providing food for celebration (4-5), and providing the sacrifices and installing the priesthood (day 6, animals/man). On the seventh day God rested; the ancient idea of this is that "resting" means that one has finished the process of establishment and enters the time of ruling. This is punctuated by the fact that in an ancient temple, the god would supposedly "occupy" the idol that had been set up at the end of the period and thus, was taking up residence.

In other words, the Genesis 1 story is the idea that the universe is God's temple, mankind is the priesthood responsible for taking care of it, and God presides over all.

[saucysoonergal]

you have any proof man are evolved creatures?

The fossil record, oh wait you don't believe in science.

[GKeeper316]

The fossil record, oh wait you don't believe in science.

jesus rode his dinosaur to church on sundays.

[saucysoonergal]

jesus rode his dinosaur to church on sundays.

Jesus was a Jew, he went to temple on Saturday! Also, riding a dinosaur on the sabbath is not kosher.

[OUDoc]

i always wondered why god doesn't reveal himself to us in an obvious way, in this day and age. why make his loved children play the guessing game, and punish them with eternal damnation if they don't believe a book that makes no logical sense? it seems like he devised this experiment thousands of years ago, and then withdrew from the world to watch and wait to see who fails the test.

Just think how many deaths could be avoided in the name of holy wars.

[OUDoc]

Jesus was a Jew, he went to temple on Saturday!

I've always wondered, why was Jesus in the "wrong" religion?

[OU_Sooners75]

Speaking of Jesus and his miracles!


pkPgYbdQ1kQ

[crawfish]

Just think how many deaths could be avoided in the name of holy wars.

Probably roughly equal to the number of deaths that would occur in wars that started anyway for alternate reasons. :)

I don't see history showing that a lack of religion makes people any less likely to kill each other. It is simply a convenient tool.

[starclassic tama]

God revealed Himself to man continually....starting from the first man created..
yet over and over man turned their backs on God and went their own way....

are you so convinced you would believe if God revealed Himself to you today?

if you think so....and you've taken a good look around outside lately and yet you still don't believe.....

you didn't answer the question. why doesn't he reveal himself in an obvious manner today, like the bible claims he used to do all the time? simply taking a look around outside is not god revealing himself to me, considering we have natural explanations for the vast majority of things i see when i look outside my window.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Anyone ever see the special on History that essentially claimed most religions are due to early encounters with aliens, humans just had no other way to describe them?

[OU_Sooners75]

PIK3GXdkxL0

[OU_Sooners75]

Anyone ever see the special on History that essentially claimed most religions are due to early encounters with aliens, humans just had no other way to describe them?


Ancient Aliens...yes, yes I have.

That show is thought provoking for sure.

[AggieTool]

God revealed Himself to man continually....starting from the first man created..


Really? How do you know this?

[soonerbrat]

This thread sucks. I'm done.

holy crap I agree with Leroid!

[soonerbrat]

Anyone ever see the special on History that essentially claimed most religions are due to early encounters with aliens, humans just had no other way to describe them?

all hail Xenu?

[soonerbrat]

Really? How do you know this?

he doesn't KNOW it, he BELIEVES it.
not necessarily mutually exclusive, but not exactly the same.

[OU_Sooners75]

holy crap I agree with Leroid!


Your avatar weirds me out!

[OUDoc]

Probably roughly equal to the number of deaths that would occur in wars that started anyway for alternate reasons. :)

I don't see history showing that a lack of religion makes people any less likely to kill each other. It is simply a convenient tool.

If a clear and unambiguous God came down for the world to see and said, "I exist. Knock it off." You don't think that would be effective?

[saucysoonergal]

p3MiD_U4CHQ

[87sooner]

Well, I guess that is one way to answer a question you don't have an answer for....with another question.

I want to believe we were just created...however, evidence with us being so closely related to the Ape species is pretty compelling to say the least.

So I ask again, do you have proof, or evidence rather, that mankind was just created?

Let me guess, your answer is that the bible told you, right?


so "closely related to the ape species" is proof that disqualifies creation?
you have to be more convincing than that...

[Fraggle145]

The Bible is not simply a collection of words to be dissected by linguists. It has more meaning than that, and those that don't experience it will never understand.

You argue out of both sides of your face so much... You want to hold most things to one set of standards - always talking about logical sense etc, etc, etc... but you wont hold the bible to the same standards. :rolleyes:

[soonerbrat]

that is correct.
it's the only book that contains the inspired word of God.
each and every word.
read it any other way and you're wasting your time.

so none of the people that have translated anything had any evil intentions. OK.

18If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:

19Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;

20And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.

21And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

uh oh. all the teenagers shall die.

[OU_Sooners75]

so "closely related to the ape species" is proof that disqualifies creation?
you have to be more convincing than that...

So you don't want to answer the question....well maybe it isn't that you don't but more like you can't answer the question.

So another question...if the bible told you it was safe to drink cyanide, would you?

[soonerbrat]

Your avatar weirds me out!

i shall change it. it was for april fool's day.

[Fraggle145]

Really? How do you know this?


so "closely related to the ape species" is proof that disqualifies creation?
you have to be more convincing than that...

>98% genetic sequence identity isnt enough for you?

[87sooner]

The fossil record, oh wait you don't believe in science.

of course i believe in science...
science explains God's creation...
what i don't believe in is scientists trying to fill in gaps with weak assumptions....
or people attempting to twist a scientific theory into an explanation of the unknowable (origin of life/universe)...

[OU_Sooners75]

i shall change it. it was for april fool's day.

Oh, now you are saying go away....fine! :P

[87sooner]

>98% genetic sequence identity isnt enough for you?

no...it isn't...

[OU_Sooners75]

>98% genetic sequence identity isnt enough for you?


Apparently not. He has 100% faith that trumps 98% genetic sequence identity!!!

[OU_Sooners75]

no...it isn't...


Because Science is a fraud, right?

[87sooner]

you didn't answer the question. why doesn't he reveal himself in an obvious manner today, like the bible claims he used to do all the time? simply taking a look around outside is not god revealing himself to me, considering we have natural explanations for the vast majority of things i see when i look outside my window.

i explained this earlier in the thread....so i guess you just jumped in here on page 9....
read the whole thread...and if you still have questions i'll answer...

[87sooner]

So you don't want to answer the question....well maybe it isn't that you don't but more like you can't answer the question.

So another question...if the bible told you it was safe to drink cyanide, would you?

it doesn't...

[87sooner]

Really? How do you know this?

did He not?

[OhU1]

You argue out of both sides of your face so much... You want to hold most things to one set of standards - always talking about logical sense etc, etc, etc... but you wont hold the bible to the same standards. :rolleyes:

Heh, that was my thought when I read his reply to my post but I figured he was just trolling or being Leroy so I just chuckled.

[OU_Sooners75]

it doesn't...


Maybe it is implying it?

I mean, it does imply that Humans were created and not evolved creatures.

It says that a big flood covered the earth.

It says Jesus walked on water.

It also tells you to get the town to stone your children when they dont want to listen to you.

hmmm....Oh, and it also says that the Israelites blew some horns and teh walls of Jericho came tumbling down.

No, none of these can be metaphors at all...it is reality...because God told man to write his word....:rolleyes:

[87sooner]

so none of the people that have translated anything had any evil intentions. OK.




i'm sure it happened....and those so called "gospels" didn't make the final cut....
the current version has withstood over 2000 years of scrutiny much stronger than yours....

[OU_Sooners75]

did He not?


Another classic example of the inability to answer a question. No surprise at all!

[OhU1]

it doesn't...
Tell that to a Penacostal. :)

BTW doesn't it say something at the end of Mark about drinking poison and handling serpents? (another BTW I think that section of the book was added on later, an embellishment if you will.)

[OU_Sooners75]

i'm sure it happened....and those so called "gospels" didn't make the final cut....
the current version has withstood over 2000 years of scrutiny much stronger than yours....


Yeeeeaaaahhh...riiiiight!!!!

So, pick and choose the stories to make you feel better, while throwing out the ones that make it look like the farce that it is, right?

Mighty Longhornish if you ask me!

[87sooner]

Maybe it is implying it?

I mean, it does imply that Humans were created and not evolved creatures.

It says that a big flood covered the earth.

It says Jesus walked on water.

It also tells you to get the town to stone your children when they dont want to listen to you.

hmmm....Oh, and it also says that the Israelites blew some horns and teh walls of Jericho came tumbling down.

No, none of these can be metaphors at all...it is reality...because God told man to write his word....:rolleyes:

but it's not reality because some internet poster says it's just a story...
ok....i get it now...
you're not the first unbeliever and you won't be the last...

[OU_Sooners75]

Tell that to a Penacostal. :)

BTW doesn't it say something at the end of Mark about drinking poison and handling serpents? (another BTW I think that section of the book was added on later, an embellishment if you will.)

oops

:hot:

[87sooner]

Yeeeeaaaahhh...riiiiight!!!!

So, pick and choose the stories to make you feel better, while throwing out the ones that make it look like the farce that it is, right?

Mighty Longhornish if you ask me!

kinda like what you did...
pick and choose the "stories" that "teach us morals" and what did you do with the rest of the bible?

[87sooner]

Another classic example of the inability to answer a question. No surprise at all!

not at all...
he asked how i knew it...
can i not ask how he knows it didn't happen?

[OU_Sooners75]

but it's not reality because some internet poster says it's just a story...
ok....i get it now...
you're not the first unbeliever and you won't be the last...


Ill tell you what...since I am a doubting Thomas....You prove to me that those are real events...and I will believe.

But here the thing is...You cannot prove that they are real events. All you got is your 100% faith.

You already disregarded what Fraggle told you that 98% of our genetic makeup is identical to Apes....

but don't let real hard core evidence get in your way.

[OU_Sooners75]

not at all...
he asked how i knew it...
can i not ask how he knows it didn't happen?


Why can't you answer any question first then ask yours?

I can tell you why you won't answer the questions...because you have 100% blind faith that the events and stories of the bible are true.

I admire you for the faith...I really do. I wish I had that strong of faith in something. But I don't. The problem with a lot of religious people is that they think science is the work of the devil or cannot be trusted. And that my friend is terrible.

If God does exist, and I want to believe He does, then he was the ultimate scientist.

[87sooner]

Ill tell you what...since I am a doubting Thomas....You prove to me that those are real events...and I will believe.

But here the thing is...You cannot prove that they are real events. All you got is your 100% faith.

You already disregarded what Fraggle told you that 98% of our genetic makeup is identical to Apes....

but don't let real hard core evidence get in your way.

i couldn't prove to you for weeks that capel sucked as a coach...
it was right there before your eyes yet you REFUSED to believe it...
what do you think now?

[OU_Sooners75]

kinda like what you did...
pick and choose the "stories" that "teach us morals" and what did you do with the rest of the bible?


you do know that stories or verses from book of the bible ties into another book of the bible somewhere, right?

I picked and choosed a few of the more common known stories of the bible...and I have yet heard anything other than "faith" as to why they are there.

They are generation to generation stories....very little evidence is around to back any of the stories up.

I am not saying there isn't any evidence, but if there is, we have yet to find it.

[Fraggle145]

It says Jesus walked on water.

Actually he may have walked on water... because it was ice :D

http://www.springerlink.com/content/g0565g4u74758076/


Is There a Paleolimnological Explanation for ‘Walking on Water’ in the Sea of Galilee?
Doron Nof, Ian McKeague and Nathan Paldor

JOURNAL OF PALEOLIMNOLOGY
Volume 35, Number 3, 417-439, DOI: 10.1007/s10933-005-1996-1

Abstract
Lake Kinneret (the Sea of Galilee) is a small freshwater lake (148 km2 and a mean depth of 20 m) situated in northern Israel. Throughout recent history there have been no known records of a total ice formation on its top. Furthermore, given that convection requires an initial cooling of the entire lake down to 4 °C, it is difficult to imagine how such a low-latitude lake, presently subject to two-digit temperatures during the winter, could ever freeze. Lake Kinneret is, however, unique in the sense that there are dense (warm and salty) springs along its western shore. The dynamics of the regions adjacent to these springs are investigated using a one-dimensional nonlinear analytical ice model, a paleoceanographic record of the sea surface temperature of the Mediterranean Sea, and a statistical model. We show that, because the water directly above the plume created by the salty springs does not convect when it is cooled down to 4 °C, freezing of the region directly above the salty springs was possible during periods when the climate in the region was somewhat cooler than it is today. We refer to this localized freezing situation as ‘springs ice’.
The analytical ice-model involves a slowly varying approach where the ice is part of a thin fresh and cold layer floating on top of the salty and warm spring water below. During the ice formation process, the ice is cooled by the atmosphere above and warmed by the spring water below. The plumes created by the springs have a length scale of 30 m, and it is argued that, during the Younger Dryas when the air temperature in the region was probably 7 °C or more cooler than today, ‘springs ice’ (thick enough to support human weight) was formed once every 27 years or less. During the cold events 1500 and 2500 years ago (when the atmospheric temperature was 3 °C or more lower than today) springs ice occurred about once in 160 years or less. Since the duration of these cold events is of the same order as the springs ice recurrence time, there is a substantial chance that at least one springs ice occurred during these cooler periods. With today's climate, the likelihood of a springs ice is virtually zero (i.e., once in more than 10,000 years).
One set of those springs associated with the freezing is situated in Tabgha, an area where many archeological features associated with Jesus Christ have been found. On this basis, it is proposed that the unusual local freezing process might have provided an origin to the story that Christ walked on water. Since the springs ice is relatively small, a person standing or walking on it may appear to an observer situated some distance away to be ‘walking on water’. This is particularly true if it rained after the ice was formed (because rain smoothes out the ice’s surface). Whether this happened or not is an issue for religion scholars, archeologists, anthropologists, and believers to decide on. As natural scientists, we merely point out that unique freezing processes probably happened in that region several times during the last 12,000 years.

There are also commentary articles linked on the left criticizing the article and then a rebuttal article by the author.

Stephen Colbert put them "on notice" http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/61753/april-17-2006/on-notice---journal-of-paleolimnology

[The Maestro]

Lets me now go over the important lessons I have learned from the King of Kings.

Elvis Aron Presly died in 1977.
He was born and lived in a time when most people in his land were literate.
We have many first hand reports of Elvis' life.
We have many reliable records: medical, musical, and otherwise.
Even so, there are people, lots of people who insist Elvis is not really dead. Sound familiar?
Even the dozens of books written by people who actually knew Elvis contain conflicting stories. Sound familiar?
There are people who insist Elvis did not do drugs. Sound familiar? Ok, maybe not that one.
We have photographs of Elvis, in the morgue, dead as a doornail, and in just 25 years there are stories that he's not dead.
In Fit for a King an important work delving into the Elvis eating habits, the author suggest to make Elvis' beloved fried chicken you'll need 3/4 a cup of flour, salt, paprika, and pepper.
In Are you Hungry Tonight the king's beloved fried chicken recipe calls for 1/2 a cup of flour, salt, and pepper.
These are glaring differences, 1/4 less flour, no paprika!?

Now, try figuring out which is the true Elvis chicken recipe 2,000 years from now.

Elvis didn't do no drugs!

Penn? Where's Teller?

[OU_Sooners75]

i couldn't prove to you for weeks that capel sucked as a coach...
it was right there before your eyes yet you REFUSED to believe it...
what do you think now?


That is strictly opinionated....however, you show me some evidence that backs up the stories in the bible...I will then believe.

If you can't, then admit it. Keep your faith and have fun with it...but stop trying to push that faith on others.

Just because some of us do not have faith in God, doesn't mean we are immoral people.

If you think we are, lets start another inquisition.

[87sooner]

you do know that stories or verses from book of the bible ties into another book of the bible somewhere, right?

I picked and choosed a few of the more common known stories of the bible...and I have yet heard anything other than "faith" as to why they are there.

They are generation to generation stories....very little evidence is around to back any of the stories up.

I am not saying there isn't any evidence, but if there is, we have yet to find it.

just so i know the challenge i'm up against ....
what evidence would convince you that Jesus turned water into wine at a wedding attended by a relatively small number of people?

[OU_Sooners75]

Actually he may have walked on water... because it was ice :D

http://www.springerlink.com/content/g0565g4u74758076/



There are also commentary articles linked on the left criticizing the article and then a rebuttal article by the author.

Stephen Colbert put them "on notice" http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/61753/april-17-2006/on-notice---journal-of-paleolimnology


got to have that one smart *** in the crowd! :P

[87sooner]

That is strictly opinionated....however, you show me some evidence that backs up the stories in the bible...I will then believe.

If you can't, then admit it. Keep your faith and have fun with it...but stop trying to push that faith on others.

Just because some of us do not have faith in God, doesn't mean we are immoral people.

If you think we are, lets start another inquisition.

100% of the athletic directors at ou FIRED capel.....isn't that evidence enuf for you to believe?

[Fraggle145]

no...it isn't...

Why not?

[OU_Sooners75]

just so i know the challenge i'm up against ....
what evidence would convince you that Jesus turned water into wine at a wedding attended by a relatively small number of people?

The wine itself. :D You get me that, Ill taste it and be drunk for days. :D

Seriously...take the Noah Flood and find proof that it covered the entire world.


Didnt the same people that voted on what books of the bible think the world was flat and that earth was the center of the universe? :pop:

[BillyBall]

6,000 seems a little high, I thought it was much newer than that.

[OU_Sooners75]

100% of the athletic directors at ou FIRED capel.....isn't that evidence enuf for you to believe?

Wow...Hey, hannity...come back to the topic.

[olevetonahill]

I suck. I'm done.

FIFY


I think one of them sooner girlz should get oldvet a well deserved sammich.

And a beer damnit dont forget the beer

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Im gonna poop in the work toilet and leave it there..see if anyone can guess its age tomorrow

[sooner_born_1960]

If there is only one begat in that poop, I can guess within a generation.

[Pricetag]

6,000 seems a little high, I thought it was much newer than that.
Show me the Earthfax.

[OU_Sooners75]

If there is only one begat in that poop, I can guess within a generation.


Can't believe you actually sliced it open!:eek: