"Maximum Alert" - Japan

[oudavid1]

Those two words came out of Brian Williams' mouth to lead off the Nightly News tonight.

Anyone legitimately concerned?

[soonercruiser]

:pop:

[Blue]

I think it's concerning. 3 reactors larger than Chernobyl in meltdown mode and they're just trying to pour water on it. Plutonium found in the ground and water near the plant. Yeah, I'd say it's not a good situation.

[oudavid1]

I think it's concerning. 3 reactors larger than Chernobyl in meltdown mode and they're just trying to pour water on it. Plutonium found in the ground and water near the plant. Yeah, I'd say it's not a good situation.

It sounded as if for the first time they are saying the have lost control.

[C&CDean]

It sounds like you need to go build a shrine to that big-assed picture you posted of some chump in a suit. He will save you.

[Breadburner]

Not concerned....

[The Profit]

It sounds like you need to go build a shrine to that big-assed picture you posted of some chump in a suit. He will save you.




Japan is not his concern. Sounds like some Japanese nuclear engineers are about to sit down with a Hari Kari sword.

[C&CDean]

Well, get on with it...

[ouwasp]

trying to copy and paste a picture of Godzilla rising from the sea, to no avail....

That's when I'll be worried. :rolleyes:

[picasso]

Those two words came out of Brian Williams' mouth to lead off the Nightly News tonight.

Anyone legitimately concerned?

I'm worried about Williams' tan lines. Goggle face.

[Blue]

Japan is not his concern. Sounds like some Japanese nuclear engineers are about to sit down with a Hari Kari sword.

Might have already happened..."Tepco president vanishes during crisis..."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/vanishing-act-by-japanese-executive-during-nuclear-crisis-raises-questions/2011/03/28/AFDnHNpB_story.html?wpisrc=emailtoafriend

[TheHumanAlphabet]

I am concerned...Supposed to be in Yokohama week after next...

[proud gonzo]

yeah, I'd cancel that trip.

[AlbqSooner]

I'm guessing we should only eat American farm-raised sushi?

[Mississippi Sooner]

I'm worried about Williams' tan lines. Goggle face.

So I'm not the only one that's noticed that. He seems to have that condition a lot.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

yeah, I'd cancel that trip.

Not a realisitic option as the guy asking me will be going as well. Now my Singapore trip prior to Tokyo will likely be postponed, and they want me in Yokohama now for 2 weeks...:eek:

[The Profit]

Not a realisitic option as the guy asking me will be going as well. Now my Singapore trip prior to Tokyo will likely be postponed, and they want me in Yokohama now for 2 weeks...:eek:




14 days should give you enough radiation to last a lifetime.

[proud gonzo]

Not a realisitic option as the guy asking me will be going as well. Now my Singapore trip prior to Tokyo will likely be postponed, and they want me in Yokohama now for 2 weeks...:eek:
I'd say, "Okay, you have fun."

[KantoSooner]

My daughter lives in Tokyo as do numerous friends (both American and Japanese). Things are normal there with the exception of media generated panic buying of bottled water and the like.
Yokohama is further away from the reactors than Tokyo

[TheHumanAlphabet]

My daughter lives in Tokyo as do numerous friends (both American and Japanese). Things are normal there with the exception of media generated panic buying of bottled water and the like.
Yokohama is further away from the reactors than Tokyo

That's what I was thinking. My project people are saying everything is near normal. I hear that there are rolling blackouts for 3 hours at a time. Need to check that out.

[KantoSooner]

The blackouts depend on where you live. Some parts of 'the metro' have them, some not. More importantly, the city is drawing on the railway system's independent generating capacity, so they have to run abbreviated train/subway schedules. So count on crowded trains.
This season of year is about like Wash D.C. in terms of weather. So you're not going to melt or freeze. Not like, say, July.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

... so they have to run abbreviated train/subway schedules. So count on crowded trains.

At least my American hours tend to be time shifted earlier than most commuters in Tokyo area. That may help some, then I may need to leave even earlier...

[Jammin']

How many people so far have directly died due to the nuclear issue in Japan?

[okie52]

How many people so far have directly died due to the nuclear issue in Japan?

About 200,000.

[Jammin']

About 200,000.

Nice. How about in 2011? The reports I show say zero. And that's after the worst earthquake and Sue-nam-eh in the history of the internets.


Now, how about coal?


Exactly.


So tell me again why nuclear is bad?

[Blue]

Nice. How about in 2011? The reports I show say zero. And that's after the worst earthquake and Sue-nam-eh in the history of the internets.


Now, how about coal?


Exactly.


So tell me again why nuclear is bad?

The situation is far from over. There is really nothing they can do about it and it will affect Japan for many years.

The question is whether they are underreporting the situation or unnecessarily making a big deal about it.

The facts are that the whole plant is inoperable. It's much bigger than chernobyl and there are alot more spent rods stored there. If they cant find a way to cool it, eventually it will melt through to the ground and water table not to mention pollute the seawater and air.

Maybe I have no clue what I'm talking about, but it doesn't sound real good for anyone living near that thing.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

About 200,000.
Huhhh??? How about zero (0).

Though I hear that there are suicide squads trying to fix the thing and that they are getting paid large amounts of money (japanese style) to continue to work in the area. I am sure we will likely see radiation deaths from this group and they will be held as national heroes.

[Jammin']

The situation is far from over. There is really nothing they can do about it and it will affect Japan for many years.

The question is whether they are underreporting the situation or unnecessarily making a big deal about it.

The facts are that the whole plant is inoperable. It's much bigger than chernobyl and there are alot more spent rods stored there. If they cant find a way to cool it, eventually it will melt through to the ground and water table not to mention pollute the seawater and air.

Maybe I have no clue what I'm talking about, but it doesn't sound real good for anyone living near that thing.

I'm with you on all of that. I really am and it will be terrible. I just don't think it will come close to the tens of thousands of people that die every year from coal production world wide. The destruction of the land, from coal, renders it useless (just like this one single nuclear issue would), and further solidifies my belief that nuclear is a great alternative. I do not understand how people can look at the situation any other way.

Again, what happens in Japan is bad and probably going to get worse, but it is still the lesser of two evils and, IMO, it's not really even close.

[Jammin']

Huhhh??? How about zero (0).

I believe 200,000 was in reference to the US nuclear issue we had in Japan back in the day. ;)

[KantoSooner]

Latest from daughter: trains and subways are getting pretty much back to pre-quake sched.
Yokohama to Tsurumi should not be a particular issue.
Take an umbrella this season anytime you go out. It's likely to rain on you. Of course, you can always by a plastic one at the trainstation for 300 yen and then just ditch it when it goes inside out...

[StoopTroup]

Huhhh??? How about zero (0).

Though I hear that there are suicide squads trying to fix the thing and that they are getting paid large amounts of money (japanese style) to continue to work in the area. I am sure we will likely see radiation deaths from this group and they will be held as national heroes.

One NASA Guy already fell to his Death at the Reactor. You can believe it's zero if you want. Anyone saying....he fell though....it wasn't radiation. WTF ever. If that guy had gone on a suicide type mission to help shut a system down had gotten sick and fell....you just don't know the truth about what's going on there. Now the Japanese are having to really make tough choices with peoples lives.

At ground zero of the plant....I bet there is some pretty bad behind the scene stories not being told.

I can't confirm that of course....it's just a feeling.

Anyone that live in Oklahoma when Karen Silkwood was around will remember what a story that ended up being. It hurt our trust with folks in the Nuclear Industry. Look at what's going on there and then think about your worst case scenario.

I'm not going to say this is all bad for America.....but I'm betting this Nuclear Incident is the worst the World has ever seen.

If I had to go there I'd want a radiation suit. Rad badges and training on what I'd need to do if I my badge did reach exposure limits while I was there.

Better to be prepared than stupid.

Fresh bottle water. Sealed MREs and enough emergency Yen on you to buy your way off Japan is case it all got really bad while you were there.

[StoopTroup]

THA....

Have you checked with the State Dept about US Citizens traveling in Japan? Have they issued an advisory?

[proud gonzo]

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2011/03/13/state-department-issues-travel-advisory-for-japan/

[okie52]

Nice. How about in 2011? The reports I show say zero. And that's after the worst earthquake and Sue-nam-eh in the history of the internets.


Now, how about coal?


Exactly.


So tell me again why nuclear is bad?

I'm all for nukes.

[sooner_born_1960]

U.S. citizens should defer non-essential travel to the following regions: Tokyo (Tokyo Capital Region), Yokohama (Kanagawa Prefecture), and the prefectures of Akita, Aomori, Chiba, Fukushima, Gunma, Ibaraki, Iwate, Miyagi, Nagano, Niigata, Saitama, Shizuoka, Tochigi, Yamagata, and Yamanashi.
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_5398.html

[TheHumanAlphabet]

THA....

Have you checked with the State Dept about US Citizens traveling in Japan? Have they issued an advisory?

Yes and we are required to get Lead Country Manager approval before going to Japan. I have that.

[KantoSooner]

The American School in Japan, the Catholic Schools (International), The British School and Yokohama International School are all open.

In fact, the spring musical being rehearsed now by the Catholic Schools will be performed as scheduled.

Enough with the 'End of Day's' stuff, folks. The reactor(s) situation is bad, but not to the extent of avoiding the entire country.

[Jammin']

One NASA Guy already fell to his Death at the Reactor. You can believe it's zero if you want. Anyone saying....he fell though....it wasn't radiation. WTF ever. If that guy had gone on a suicide type mission to help shut a system down had gotten sick and fell....you just don't know the truth about what's going on there. Now the Japanese are having to really make tough choices with peoples lives.

At ground zero of the plant....I bet there is some pretty bad behind the scene stories not being told.

I can't confirm that of course....it's just a feeling.

Anyone that live in Oklahoma when Karen Silkwood was around will remember what a story that ended up being. It hurt our trust with folks in the Nuclear Industry. Look at what's going on there and then think about your worst case scenario.

I'm not going to say this is all bad for America.....but I'm betting this Nuclear Incident is the worst the World has ever seen.

If I had to go there I'd want a radiation suit. Rad badges and training on what I'd need to do if I my badge did reach exposure limits while I was there.

Better to be prepared than stupid.

Fresh bottle water. Sealed MREs and enough emergency Yen on you to buy your way off Japan is case it all got really bad while you were there.

Here is the updated statistics on deaths per TWh from energy and some info on US and China deaths per year related to coal pollution. It has been updated to include the fallen NASA guy. (which is the only nuclear related death since I don't know when) I'd love to hear your thoughts ST. Link: http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/03/deaths-per-twh-by-energy-source.html


In the USA about 30,000 deaths/year from coal pollution from 2000 TWh.
15 deaths per TWh.
In China about 500,000 deaths/year from coal pollution from 1800 TWh.
278 deaths per TWh.


Energy Source Death Rate (deaths per TWh)

Coal – world average 161 (26% of world energy, 50% of electricity)
Coal – China 278
Coal – USA 15
Oil 36 (36% of world energy)
Natural Gas 4 (21% of world energy)
Biofuel/Biomass 12
Peat 12
Solar (rooftop) 0.44 (less than 0.1% of world energy)
Wind 0.15 (less than 1% of world energy)
Hydro 0.10 (europe death rate, 2.2% of world energy)
Hydro - world including Banqiao) 1.4 (about 2500 TWh/yr and 171,000 Banqiao dead)
Nuclear 0.04 (5.9% of world energy)

[okie52]

Here is the updated statistics on deaths per TWh from energy and some info on US and China deaths per year related to coal pollution. It has been updated to include the fallen NASA guy. (which is the only nuclear related death since I don't know when) I'd love to hear your thoughts ST. Link: http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/03/deaths-per-twh-by-energy-source.html


In the USA about 30,000 deaths/year from coal pollution from 2000 TWh.
15 deaths per TWh.
In China about 500,000 deaths/year from coal pollution from 1800 TWh.
278 deaths per TWh.


Energy Source Death Rate (deaths per TWh)

Coal – world average 161 (26% of world energy, 50% of electricity)
Coal – China 278
Coal – USA 15
Oil 36 (36% of world energy)
Natural Gas 4 (21% of world energy)
Biofuel/Biomass 12
Peat 12
Solar (rooftop) 0.44 (less than 0.1% of world energy)
Wind 0.15 (less than 1% of world energy)
Hydro 0.10 (europe death rate, 2.2% of world energy)
Hydro - world including Banqiao) 1.4 (about 2500 TWh/yr and 171,000 Banqiao dead)
Nuclear 0.04 (5.9% of world energy)

But don't forget about clean coal.

0% world's energy 0% deaths.

[hellogoodbye]

Im not stating a position either way, but these situations aren't comparable with conventional. While there may be no deaths directly linked to this accident of engineering and disaster planning, if those rods do melt through, I guarantee you that immediate area and surrounds are going to be uninhabitable longer than any human civilization will last. And pity for those who have children anywhere close to the surrounds.

the book is still out on Chernobyl http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/science/jan-june11/chernobyl_03-29.html

[TheHumanAlphabet]

fallen NASA guy

What'sthis??? I heard of a NASA guy falling in Florida working on the shuttle, but nothing about some NASA guy falling at the Fukishima facility.

[Jammin']

What'sthis??? I heard of a NASA guy falling in Florida working on the shuttle, but nothing about some NASA guy falling at the Fukishima facility.

check ST's post on the last page. The link I posted mentioned they included a questionable death in march from the Japan reactors. I assume it was what ST referred to but I have no proof of that.

[StoopTroup]

Yeah I even went back to try and find anything about it bur I was watching the coverage pretty much non-stop back then. I remember them saying at one point Clinton hadn't ordered our people to help them militarily and I was just stating that she might not have meant military when she had said we offered the Air forces Assets to help them... Something like that. Then a few hours later reports that we had sent in Air force nuclear experts in to assist came out.

Around that time they announced a NASA nuclear inspector had Fallen to his death inside the plant. After that....notice how you haven't heard about anyone getting a hang nail at that plant.

[Jammin']

Yeah I even went back to try and find anything about it bur I was watching the coverage pretty much non-stop back then. I remember them saying at one point Clinton hadn't ordered our people to help them militarily and I was just stating that she might not have meant military when she had said we offered the Air forces Assets to help them... Something like that. Then a few hours later reports that we had sent in Air force nuclear experts in to assist came out.

Around that time they announced a NASA nuclear inspector had Fallen to his death inside the plant. After that....notice how you haven't heard about anyone getting a hang nail at that plant.

I can't imagine that radiation knocked him off of anything though? I remember reading about Chernobyl and several people looking directly into the core during the early moments of the problem. They eventually died but it didn't blow them across the room. I believe the feeling they were quoted as feeling was one of pins and needles, like when your foot falls asleep.

[soonercruiser]

Yeah I even went back to try and find anything about it bur I was watching the coverage pretty much non-stop back then. I remember them saying at one point Clinton hadn't ordered our people to help them militarily and I was just stating that she might not have meant military when she had said we offered the Air forces Assets to help them... Something like that. Then a few hours later reports that we had sent in Air force nuclear experts in to assist came out.

Around that time they announced a NASA nuclear inspector had Fallen to his death inside the plant. After that....notice how you haven't heard about anyone getting a hang nail at that plant.

What the problem guys?
I am watching live video feeds from Japan of what's going on in the nuclear plants....
http://www.fotosearch.com/CSV001/k2024844/

[Jammin']

What the problem guys?
I am watching live video feeds from Japan of what's going on in the nuclear plants....
http://www.fotosearch.com/CSV001/k2024844/

no problem at all. I can't feel any heat from here.

[StoopTroup]

I can't imagine that radiation knocked him off of anything though?

I didn't say it did....

I said there was at least one death and suddenly all you hear is guys who might have to sacrifice their lives....

Now someone comes on this board saying there haven't been any death because of the Nuke Plant.

I don't believe that.

[jumperstop]

Im not stating a position either way, but these situations aren't comparable with conventional. While there may be no deaths directly linked to this accident of engineering and disaster planning, if those rods do melt through, I guarantee you that immediate area and surrounds are going to be uninhabitable longer than any human civilization will last. And pity for those who have children anywhere close to the surrounds.

the book is still out on Chernobyl http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/science/jan-june11/chernobyl_03-29.html

I think I may have watched that pbs show on Chernobyl, didn't click the link cause I'm at work. They are having all sorts of children born with terrible terrible birth defects in that region. Much higher percentages of these defects are seen in this area compared to other areas in the world. Other than the people who died from the poisioning, many more are effected by it being the environment, even people living many to hundreds of miles away...

[Blue]

I didn't say it did....

I said there was at least one death and suddenly all you hear is guys who might have to sacrifice their lives....

Now someone comes on this board saying there haven't been any death because of the Nuke Plant.

I don't believe that.

Fukushima 50: "We expect to die"

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03/31/japans-nuclear-rescuers-inevitable-die-weeks/

[StoopTroup]

Still....nothing confirmed.

One thing in my mind is that those folks won't get open casket funerals and be buried next to their Grandfather.

[jumperstop]

Fukushima 50: "We expect to die"

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03/31/japans-nuclear-rescuers-inevitable-die-weeks/

Suicide mission that must be done...same thing happened at Chernobyl. People knew the **** they were going into when they did it, but that someones got to do it.

[soonercruiser]

Fukushima 50: "We expect to die"

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03/31/japans-nuclear-rescuers-inevitable-die-weeks/

Yup! Even the Japanese have real heros.
:(

[hellogoodbye]

I think I may have watched that pbs show on Chernobyl, didn't click the link cause I'm at work. They are having all sorts of children born with terrible terrible birth defects in that region. Much higher percentages of these defects are seen in this area compared to other areas in the world. Other than the people who died from the poisioning, many more are effected by it being the environment, even people living many to hundreds of miles away...

no fault tolerance for human error with nukes

MILES O'BRIEN: Ukraine is asking the west for $800 million to pay for a new shelter over the old sarcophagus that would last 100 years. Beneath it is all is a molten witch's brew of radioactive isotopes, including plutonium, with a half-life of 24,000 years, meaning, in 24,000 years, half of it will still be here, and 24,000 years later, half of that will still be here, and so on.

Do you think human beings are capable of keeping this thing safe for tens of thousands of years? .

GENNADI MILINEVSKY: If he covers it, will try to keep it safe.

MILES O'BRIEN: Yes.

GENNADI MILINEVSKY: But this place, this area will be still not good for life.

MILES O'BRIEN: Forever.

GENNADI MILINEVSKY: Yes, forever, yes.
total decay 7.6+ million years yea thats pretty much forever as far as we are concerned

[soonercruiser]

Come on guys!
I think that it is time to MOVE ON.....
To another planet in the Solar System.

[StoopTroup]

Thank goodness....we finally have the place to ourselves again.....

[jumperstop]

no fault tolerance for human error with nukes

total decay 7.6+ million years yea thats pretty much forever as far as we are concerned

The plans for the new sarcophagus they were showing on that show reminded me of Jerry's World.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Yokohama update...

Arrived work this morning. Trains running fine. My safety briefing was more thorough than usual. Lots on earthquake procedures... Radiation well below worries and in the normal background range in Yokohama. Narita Express (from airport) is supposed to begin again today, a good thing. Though I had to take the bus in yesterday.

Outside of a few escalators that are shut down (I think an energy conservation deal), everything is pretty much as normal as I can tell from previous trips.

Lots of stories on Fukishima on TV, but it is all in Japanese, so I can;t tell you much there. Big story on the polymer they are dumping in to soak up the water, demonstration in TV for people.

Looks like my biggest hazard will be the next 2 weeks and 8 hours sitting in a conference room looking at a 3D model projection on screen. I only hope so...

Cheers.

[King Barry's Back]

14 days should give you enough radiation to last a lifetime.

At least your new radiated life time.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

At least your new radiated life time.

There is no radiation where I am. I probably get more from the computer and video projectors and the flight over...