This missive from U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders 3/27.11

[BoomerJack]

Sanders Calls for Shared Sacrifice

BURLINGTON, Vt., March 27 - While hard working Americans fill out their income tax returns this tax season, General Electric and other giant profitable corporations are avoiding U.S. taxes altogether.

With Congress returning to Capitol Hill on Monday to debate steep spending cuts, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said the wealthiest Americans and most profitable corporations must do their share to help bring down our record-breaking deficit.

Sanders renewed his call for shared sacrifice after it was reported that General Electric and other major corporations paid no U.S. taxes after posting huge profits. Sanders said it is grossly unfair for congressional Republicans to propose major cuts to Head Start, Pell Grants, the Social Security Administration, nutrition grants for pregnant low-income women and the Environmental Protection Agency while ignoring the reality that some of the most profitable corporations pay nothing or almost nothing in federal income taxes.

Sanders compiled a list of some of some of the 10 worst corporate income tax avoiders.

1) Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings.

2) Bank of America received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion.

3) Over the past five years, while General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States, it received a $4.1 billion refund from the IRS.

4) Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009.

5) Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year.

6) Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, it received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction.

7) Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received an almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department.

8) Citigroup last year made more than $4 billion in profits but paid no federal income taxes. It received a $2.5 trillion bailout from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury.

9) ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2007 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction.

10) Over the past five years, Carnival Cruise Lines made more than $11 billion in profits, but its federal income tax rate during those years was just 1.1 percent.

Sanders has called for closing corporate tax loopholes and eliminating tax breaks for oil and gas companies. He also introduced legislation to impose a 5.4 percent surtax on millionaires that would yield up to $50 billion a year. The senator has said that spending cuts must be paired with new revenue so the federal budget is not balanced solely on the backs of working families.

"We have a deficit problem. It has to be addressed," Sanders said, "but it cannot be addressed on the backs of the sick, the elderly, the poor, young people, the most vulnerable in this country. The wealthiest people and the largest corporations in this country have got to contribute. We've got to talk about shared sacrifice."
___________________________________________


What do you think? I think he has a point. Ten actually. What it really boils down to, IMO, is that the tax structure needs to revamped.

[Midtowner]

The man makes a fair point.

[Peach Fuzz]

I think it's wrong to make the rich sacrifice just because they have been successful, but these and other companies need to pay the eff up

[okie52]

What a surprise the socialist doesn't like corporations.

http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af24/okie54/exxontaxes.jpg

[saucysoonergal]

What a surprise the socialist doesn't like corporations.

http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af24/okie54/exxontaxes.jpg

Hey didn't you read #1? 1) Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings.

;)

[Midtowner]

What a surprise the socialist doesn't like corporations.

http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af24/okie54/exxontaxes.jpg

You like to pick and choose your data.

Convenient that the chart stops in '08.


1) Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings.

[okie52]

You like to pick and choose your data.

Convenient that the chart stops in '08.

Just like Sanders only chose 2009 while mine ran a decade.

[okie52]

Hey didn't you read #1? 1) Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings.

;)

Yeah I read it but it didn't show what writeoffs they had in that year. For those that have short memories, oil dropped to $33 a barrel in 2009. Finding and extraction costs are often above $50 a barrel.

[pphilfran]

We've got to talk about shared sacrifice.

[Midtowner]

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/may2008/db2008051_596535.htm

The vast majority of Exxon's taxes are paid overseas.

I guess this is just another way the American taxpayer transfers wealth elsewhere.

[saucysoonergal]

I rilly like self-important people who think they are smarter than everyone on a message board.




NOT ;)

[okie52]

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/may2008/db2008051_596535.htm

The vast majority of Exxon's taxes are paid overseas.

I guess this is just another way the American taxpayer transfers wealth elsewhere.

So what!!! Most of their money is made overseas. Open up more offshore drilling in this country and you will see an increase in royalties, bonus dollars, jobs, revenues, and tax dollars paid in this country. It's really not that hard!!!

[okie52]

I really like clueless people with an opinion.

[The Profit]

Yeah I read it but it didn't show what writeoffs they had in that year. For those that have short memories, oil dropped to $33 a barrel in 2009. Finding and extraction costs are often above $50 a barrel.




I would like to see it drop to 1986 levels again.

[saucysoonergal]

I really like clueless people with an opinion.

You must love yourself longtime then




;)

[okie52]

I would like to see it drop to 1986 levels again.

Why don't you go short on that;)

[okie52]

You must love yourself longtime then




;)

Your facts overwhelm me.

[The Profit]

Why don't you go short on that;)



Didn't say it was gonna happen. Just said I wished it would happen.

[My Opinion Matters]

Obligatory welfare and food stamps causes the budget crisis comment.

[saucysoonergal]

Your postings underwhelm me.


Have a lovely day though!

[okie52]

Oh, the pain.

[saucysoonergal]

Burns huh? ;)

[okie52]

Deeply.

[saucysoonergal]

52, you are pretty funny, I'll give you that! I think I like this guy!!!

[The Profit]

52, you are pretty funny, I'll give you that! I think I like this guy!!!




Yeah, for a republican, he really isn't a bad guy.

[pphilfran]

I put this together about a year ago...it was the latest data available...I had to use AGI since that was the only data available but the data should be realistic...I believe I was using IRS data...

10% of the returns paid no tax...

35% paid 800 bucks or less a year...

Where they get hit is SS...you have to make about 40k a year to pay more in taxes than SS/medicare...

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii187/pphilfran/i41.jpg

[okie52]

And you're pretty saucy!

[saucysoonergal]

Yeah, for a republican, he really isn't a bad guy.

Meh, I could care less about a person's politics. He can take a ribbing like a champ! I take it he is married and well trained. ;)

[The Profit]

I put this together about a year ago...it was the latest data available...I had to use AGI since that was the only data available but the data should be realistic...I believe I was using IRS data...

10% of the returns paid no tax...

35% paid 800 bucks or less a year...

Where they get hit is SS...you have to make about 40k a year to pay more in taxes than SS/medicare...

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii187/pphilfran/i41.jpg





I would like to see the limit on what you pay in to SS dropped.

[okie52]

Meh, I could care less about a person's politics. He can take a ribbing like a champ! I take it he is married and well trained. ;)

You got that right.

[pphilfran]

Oh, and 60% of all taxes are paid by those making more than 75k a year...a group that makes up 21% of all returns...

[pphilfran]

Meh, I could care less about a person's politics. He can take a ribbing like a champ! I take it he is married and well trained. ;)

You should see his old lady...

[okie52]

Yeah, for a republican, he really isn't a bad guy.

I still hate that label since I probably agree with the dems on most social issues. It is probably accurate but I claim my choices are limited.

[The Profit]

Meh, I could care less about a person's politics. He can take a ribbing like a champ! I take it he is married and well trained. ;)




Actually, he has had a couple of trainers.

[The Profit]

You should see his old lady...




Yes, the 2nd trainer is quite a looker....he is way over his head.

[KantoSooner]

If you look at the different numbers, what becomes clear is not that 'the rich' pay nothing, but how much difference there is in how much major earners pay. Conclusion: your lawyers and CPA's make the difference.
And that, to me, is wrong and evidence of a system that is unfair, not in formulation, but in practice.

Here's what I'd like to see:

1. No corporate tax at all. Huh? Why? Because you can't tax a corporation. You can 'tax' it's employees, shareholders and customers, but the great worm lives on, passing whatever goes in the front out the back. So, forget about them and,....

2. Tax individuals only, but...

3. Eliminate ALL write offs, subsidies, credits, etc. and,...

4. Institute a flat tax with the first $20,000 per person covered in the return exempt. (If you can't feed, cloth, shelter and medicate a family of 4 for $80k per year, you aren't trying).

I don't know what the flat tax would be, I figure something like 15% should come close.

The effect, of course, would be to greatly increase the burden on the rich. But only on their income. There would be no tax on money left invested; a nice incentive to build the nation. As we can see from the above, once you have the ability to hire the best attys and CPAs, you really pay nothing. Eliminate the games and everyone pays the same share. Trusts and the like can shelter family businesses, farms, ranches etc. so long as you're not pulling large sums out of them. Those then become income. But let's not bog down in details.

The real target should be the massive subsidies and write offs. We spend, for instance, what? $50 bill a year on ag subsidies? And that wouldnt' be so bad if Aunt Louise and Uncle Jarvelle were getting this money up there in the Ozarks. But they're not. ADM is getting this money. Or Cargill.

Oh, and get rid of Grassly's jeremiad against income earned by Americans overseas. We're the only country on earth who taxes its expat citizens. Forget it and let young Americans go back to work for American companies overseas (they're being replaced by Aussies, kiwis, etc because the yanks are 3X the cost) and get exposed to the international market that is now something like 35% of our economy.

[pphilfran]

I would like to see the limit on what you pay in to SS dropped.

I can't go that far...it is a defined benefit plan...a self employed millionaire paying in 130k a year is far too much..

If you take the limit up to 120 - 130k the plan will pay for itself, no need to go overboard...

[The Profit]

I can't go that far...it is a defined benefit plan...a self employed millionaire paying in 130k a year is far too much..

If you take the limit up to 120 - 130k the plan will pay for itself, no need to go overboard...



If you are right on your numbers (and I always trust your research), why in the hell has that not been proposed, accepted and adopted. Why, instead, are they calling on raising the retirement age, reducing benefits, etc. Just raise the limit to $130k and be done with it.

[okie52]

Still support moving back the benefit age, too.

[saucysoonergal]

Frank Zappa was right: "Tax the Churches!" ;)

[pphilfran]

If you are right on your numbers (and I always trust your research), why in the hell has that not been proposed, accepted and adopted. Why, instead, are they calling on raising the retirement age, reducing benefits, etc. Just raise the limit to $130k and be done with it.

Because our various leaders don't have a common defined goal...

Looking at my numbers...caution, rounding in place..also, these are AGI so there will actually be more people in those upper ranges than I am using..

14 million returns (100k to 200k range) averaging 133k...13% of 30k..so everybody pays in an additional 4k a year...

4k a year times 14 million taxpayers..56 billion...

WE also have 4.5 million returns showing over 200k...average of 627k per return...

Those 4.5 million would also pay an additional 4k...18 billion...

72 billion to shore up ss and medicaid...it would be damn close...

[pphilfran]

Still support moving back the benefit age, too.

I would too...slowly bump it up....

[Soonerfan88]

Good to read that Oklahoma's own ConocoPhillips only received tax breaks like every other corp and wasn't actually getting a refund - apparently being a successful oil/gas company required you be listed.


Corporate taxes, like all other federal taxes, have become much to complicated over time as different factions buy votes for exemptions and special rulings from what ever party holds the majority. I believe that America's basic corporation tax rates are still the highest in the world and that is a large contributor to moving assets overseas. Get the corporate tax structure straightened out and many jobs just might be brought back to the US.

[The Profit]

I would too...slowly bump it up....



Why?

[pphilfran]

Why?

People are living longer...

Plus I believe in "shared sacrifice"...the better off pay in an additional 4k...the less well off wait a year or two to get benefits...

Add a month to those that will draw funds next year...3 month longer wait the second year...then add a couple of months each year till we add two years...

[Sooner5030]

the op was kinda confusing.....at least to an accountantant. The "refund" amount was used to make a point but no reference to the withholdings/quarterly payments that the refund resulted from or effective tax rates for a better comparison.

C or S corps don't get an EIC like individuals do.

[Canyonero]

If you look at the different numbers, what becomes clear is not that 'the rich' pay nothing, but how much difference there is in how much major earners pay. Conclusion: your lawyers and CPA's make the difference.
And that, to me, is wrong and evidence of a system that is unfair, not in formulation, but in practice.

Here's what I'd like to see:

1. No corporate tax at all. Huh? Why? Because you can't tax a corporation. You can 'tax' it's employees, shareholders and customers, but the great worm lives on, passing whatever goes in the front out the back. So, forget about them and,....

2. Tax individuals only, but...

3. Eliminate ALL write offs, subsidies, credits, etc. and,...

4. Institute a flat tax with the first $20,000 per person covered in the return exempt. (If you can't feed, cloth, shelter and medicate a family of 4 for $80k per year, you aren't trying).

I don't know what the flat tax would be, I figure something like 15% should come close.

The effect, of course, would be to greatly increase the burden on the rich. But only on their income. There would be no tax on money left invested; a nice incentive to build the nation. As we can see from the above, once you have the ability to hire the best attys and CPAs, you really pay nothing. Eliminate the games and everyone pays the same share. Trusts and the like can shelter family businesses, farms, ranches etc. so long as you're not pulling large sums out of them. Those then become income. But let's not bog down in details.

The real target should be the massive subsidies and write offs. We spend, for instance, what? $50 bill a year on ag subsidies? And that wouldnt' be so bad if Aunt Louise and Uncle Jarvelle were getting this money up there in the Ozarks. But they're not. ADM is getting this money. Or Cargill.

Oh, and get rid of Grassly's jeremiad against income earned by Americans overseas. We're the only country on earth who taxes its expat citizens. Forget it and let young Americans go back to work for American companies overseas (they're being replaced by Aussies, kiwis, etc because the yanks are 3X the cost) and get exposed to the international market that is now something like 35% of our economy.

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

[Ike]

If you look at the different numbers, what becomes clear is not that 'the rich' pay nothing, but how much difference there is in how much major earners pay. Conclusion: your lawyers and CPA's make the difference.
And that, to me, is wrong and evidence of a system that is unfair, not in formulation, but in practice.

Here's what I'd like to see:

1. No corporate tax at all. Huh? Why? Because you can't tax a corporation. You can 'tax' it's employees, shareholders and customers, but the great worm lives on, passing whatever goes in the front out the back. So, forget about them and,....



I take a slightly different tack...The Supremes have ruled that corporations are effectively people. Tax them like people. Or go your way and overturn the SC's 'corporations are people too' interpretation legislatively.

[okie52]

I take a slightly different tack...The Supremes have ruled that corporations are effectively people. Tax them like people. Or go your way and overturn the SC's 'corporations are people too' interpretation legislatively.

Really stings you about that decision.

[Sooner5030]

they do tax them like people........at least when they distribute the earnings through dividends it's taxed........just as dividend income that each individual owner has to report and pay taxes on.

[Ike]

Really stings you about that decision.

No. I just think they are wrong. Corporations are property. Not people.

[okie52]

No. I just think they are wrong. Corporations are property. Not people.

They aren't voting or being given the right to run for office. They are, however, being allowed to represent their interests just like unions are.

[NormanPride]

No matter how we're taxed, it won't mean squat until we clear up the budget.

[soonercoop1]

Sounds like an easy way to fix it is to have a flat tax accross the board for everyone...no deductions...