Japan will be fine folks.

[Okla-homey]

Please, no rush to donate cash.

They really have this disaster response piece gripped-up along, with an infrastructure to match their geographic reality. The urban SAR teams they sent to Christchurch, NZ last month set a real benchmark. They'll have the place back up and running before you can say "arigato gozaimasu".

And for the record, the Japanese will get it done most riki-tik because, unlike the losers in NOLA, they know WTF they're doing, are a self-disciplined population and will not sit in a pile of their own defecation bemoaning their fate and begging for help.

[HBick]

Racial Undertones FTW

[Soonerus]

I totally agree with the NOLA comments....

[VeeJay]

Difference being Japan was sophisticated in its technology and engineering before the quake. NOLA was a festering cesspool of government largesse prior to Katrina.

Frankly, if I were to donate cash, I'd send it to Japan before I'd sent it to NOLA. Japan will do something productive with resources, while NOLA will have politicians squander and skim off the top. And NOLA gets more of my tax dollars than I'd ever dream of sending elsewhere, give the option.

So, no worries.

[MR2-Sooner86]

The only bad thing about Katrina and NOLA is it washed that trash up all over the country. :mad:

Editor's note: Yeah, I called the people of NOLA trash. Sue me.

[pphilfran]

How bad was their mass transit system damaged?

[HBick]

Japan will be fine providing their isn't a nuclear reactor melting down and tainting the land for 30 miles around

[pphilfran]

Japan will be fine providing their isn't a nuclear reactor melting down and tainting the land for 30 miles around

That too...

[StoopTroup]

Editor's note: Yeah, I called the people of NOLA trash. Sue me.

TUSooner nip

[HBick]

Editor's note: Yeah, I called the people of NOLA trash. Sue me.

And that trash makes some damn good po' boys, gumbo and all sorts of stuff. Not to mention the music which is great. But then again, I've always had a soft spot for NOLA after I was down there in January 2007. Had a great time and would go back in a heart beat.

[OUthunder]

If things would have went really well, New Orleans would currently be in Lake Pocahantus.

[Okla-homey]

TUSooner nip

My brother and collegue TUSooner knows I love him. And I know he hates this kind of talk. But let's face facts. NOLA is a failed social experiment. It's a quaint place of annual debauchery with an important sea port. I say keep the port open, let the rest go back to salt marsh and swamp.

[MsProudSooner2]

It would seem that if Japan is such a shining example for the rest of the world, they would have been better prepared before the earthquake.

[yermom]

you know, by leaving that island in the first place

[STUpendOUs]

It would seem that if Japan is such a shining example for the rest of the world, they would have been better prepared before the earthquake.

what do you mean? Like putting up 100' seawalls and setting a foundation of memory foam under the entire island?

I for one am very impressed with the way they are handling all this crap...

If this would of happened in Southern California, there would be looting and pillaging all over by now.

[pphilfran]

what do you mean? Like putting up 100' seawalls and setting a foundation of memory foam under the entire island?

I for one am very impressed with the way they are handling all this crap...

If this would of happened in Southern California, there would be looting and pillaging all over by now.

There is nothing left to loot or pillage...everything is either wet, smashed, or nuked...

[Okla-homey]

If this would of happened in Southern California, there would be looting and pillaging all over by now.

darn skippy. I don't care for the Japanese, but I respect their culture. They do what's expected of them. And they don't generally prey on one another.

[StoopTroup]

I'm really OK with folks preying on each other in California. General Sheen would bring them to their knees

[Veritas]

It would seem that if Japan is such a shining example for the rest of the world, they would have been better prepared before the earthquake.

They were. Which is why they'll be fine.

Honestly, are there a bunch of villages missing idiots lately?

[StoopTroup]

I'm sure this will have lots of folks rethinking how to build a Nuclear Power Plant

[pphilfran]

I'm sure this will have lots of folks rethinking how to build a Nuclear Power Plant

As Homey said on the other thread...

Not so much how but where...

[Okla-homey]

I'm sure this will have lots of folks rethinking how to build a Nuclear Power Plant

Yeah. Don't build them in earthquake zones. duh.

[StoopTroup]

Yeah. Don't build them in earthquake zones. duh.

That leaves Oklahoma out then and Missouri, Arkansas. Anyone know of the others in the Mid West?

[OutlandTrophy]

I'm sure this will have lots of folks rethinking how to build a Nuclear Power Plant

yeah, they should probably have a backup generator to keep the coolant pumps flowing.

[pphilfran]

That leaves Oklahoma out then and Missouri, Arkansas. Anyone know of the others in the Mid West?

I was thinking the same...

Today we had a 3.2 east of OKC..

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsus/Maps/US2/34.36.-99.-97.php

[soonerscuba]

I hope tub girl is alright.

[pphilfran]

yeah, they should probably have a backup generator to keep the coolant pumps flowing.

Did the plant get hit by the wave? If so maybe the intakes were clogged with debris...

[SicEmBaylor]

I have nothing but a deep, and admittedly irrational, hatred of the Japanse.

I'm not losing any sleep over them. Screw 'em.

[StoopTroup]

I think it's more to do with making them strong enough to withstand stronger Earthquake and for a longer time. I also agree with Homey but I also thik they have to consider the time one of these quakes last and the number of large after shocks. Japan wouldn't have been my choice in depending on Nuclear Power but they made the choice a long time ago to do so. Look at how well they have done by using it too.

If we are seriously going to turn to clean electric power we'll need to work on safe Nuclear Power and also maybe keep searching the Frontier of Fusion more as well. I like the Windmills and the idea of more effiecient Solar Panels but we can't allow those industries to use our Tax Money to make it and then control it's life cycle by slowly introducing a fix one year and then introducing the new one like we did with TVs and Stereos. I believe the Car makers...if forced....could make affordable fast vehicles that allowed us all to commute anywhere in the US and find recharging station in abundant locales.

The idea that it will take decades needs to be addressed sternly IMO. I hate losing V-8s and the era of muscle cars and such such as anyone....but we are in a financial war now.

[Mongo]

I have nothing but a deep, and admittedly irrational, hatred of the Japanse.

I'm not losing any sleep over them. Screw 'em.

shirley you have gotten over the horrible treatment you went through as a POW during WWII.

[Mjcpr]

yeah, they should probably have a backup generator to keep the coolant pumps flowing.

They had big diesel generators is what I heard, but they were trashed by the flooding I think.

[Blue]

My brother and collegue TUSooner knows I love him. And I know he hates this kind of talk. But let's face facts. NOLA is a failed social experiment. It's a quaint place of annual debauchery with an important sea port. I say keep the port open, let the rest go back to salt marsh and swamp.

It's one of my favorite cities. I'll be down there for a wedding in a few weeks. I wonder why the couple didn't pick Tulsa? The cultural epicenter that it is and all...

[Mjcpr]

It's one of my favorite cities. I'll be down there for a wedding in a few weeks. I wonder why the couple didn't pick Tulsa? The cultural epicenter that it is and all...

Not cultural epicenter, center of the universe. Get it straight.

http://s4.hubimg.com/u/2494439_f260.jpg

[Mongo]

Maybe all that radiation will straighten up all those sideways vaginas. I am a glass half full kinda guy

[pphilfran]

I think it's more to do with making them strong enough to withstand stronger Earthquake and for a longer time. I also agree with Homey but I also thik they have to consider the time one of these quakes last and the number of large after shocks. Japan wouldn't have been my choice in depending on Nuclear Power but they made the choice a long time ago to do so. Look at how well they have done by using it too.

If we are seriously going to turn to clean electric power we'll need to work on safe Nuclear Power and also maybe keep searching the Frontier of Fusion more as well. I like the Windmills and the idea of more effiecient Solar Panels but we can't allow those industries to use our Tax Money to make it and then control it's life cycle by slowly introducing a fix one year and then introducing the new one like we did with TVs and Stereos. I believe the Car makers...if forced....could make affordable fast vehicles that allowed us all to commute anywhere in the US and find recharging station in abundant locales.

The idea that it will take decades needs to be addressed sternly IMO. I hate losing V-8s and the era of muscle cars and such such as anyone....but we are in a financial war now.

I agree with everything except the forcing of the car makers...

It ain't the car makers...it is the car buyers...there are many choices of cars that can get 40 mpg yet most buyers have fuel efficiency down the list of wants...

We get to 4 dollar gas and the buying habits will change until the price drops again...

I know it is unpopular but we should be taxing the crap out of gas...tack on an extra dime next year...then a dime each year for the next ten years...let the consumer know in advance and they will make fuel efficiency a higher priority...

[StoopTroup]

How can the Tesla and the Nissan Leaf be such a better vehicle than the Volt? GM has had the opportunity to build a really good electric vehicle and make it affordable for a long time. What I think they are doing is taking it slow...dragging their feet until they are bankrupt again and we pay to save their *** again.

My God...some of these Companies have had the best opportunity to make changes in turning us all towards green Instead many of us continue to support the idea of electric powered vehicles....but GM or Ford is still continuing to really focus on the fossil fuel gas guzzlers because the DOT gives them the lattitude to do it.

The Company that really becomes the Henry Ford of the Electric car once we have cheap electric power in our Country will be written into the History books like old Henry. It's at the very least a plausible scenario.

[StoopTroup]

I agree with everything except the forcing of the car makers...

It ain't the car makers...it is the car buyers...there are many choices of cars that can get 40 mpg yet most buyers have fuel efficiency down the list of wants...

We get to 4 dollar gas and the buying habits will change until the price drops again...

I know it is unpopular but we should be taxing the crap out of gas...tack on an extra dime next year...then a dime each year for the next ten years...let the consumer know in advance and they will make fuel efficiency a higher priority...

Fair enough...I'm just talking about what if's...

[StoopTroup]

If you remember years ago....we made liquor and cigarette companies stop advertizing a life style that glamorized those vices. Why do you continue to see nothing but luxury gas guzzling 40,000 dollar vehicles everytime you turn on the TV, Laptop or magazine?

[StoopTroup]

I like my truck. I'm not saying i want to lose it either....I just think we are smarter than this. Car Companies have backed us in the corner.

The fuel efficient stuff is just crap.

[Mongo]

You are pushing for that 50k, arent you?:D

[SicEmBaylor]

The real problem with electric vehicles is that they are innately un-American. American are born with car-loving in their very DNA. This is a huge country and are infrastructure is built around the car. Driving long distances in the United States is quite common, but in the rest of the world it's a different story.

An electric car is fine if you rarely leave town and you just want to drive it to commute, but that is probably assuming that you already have another gas-powered car to fall back on if you need to go long distances. And in those cases , you're looking at the car really only appealing to upper-middle class "Apple fanboy" style young liberals. That's a pretty small niche market.

I just don't see all-electric vehicles taking off anytime soon if ever. What I think is much better are hybrids capable of running totally off battery and then automatically switching to the gas engine when the batteries are depleted. I think the Volt does that, but I'm not totally sure.

[pphilfran]

How can the Tesla and the Nissan Leaf be such a better vehicle than the Volt? GM has had the opportunity to build a really good electric vehicle and make it affordable for a long time. What I think they are doing is taking it slow...dragging their feet until they are bankrupt again and we pay to save their *** again.

My God...some of these Companies have had the best opportunity to make changes in turning us all towards green Instead many of us continue to support the idea of electric powered vehicles....but GM or Ford is still continuing to really focus on the fossil fuel gas guzzlers because the DOT gives them the lattitude to do it.

The Company that really becomes the Henry Ford of the Electric car once we have cheap electric power in our Country will be written into the History books like old Henry. It's at the very least a plausible scenario.

Who says they are "better" vehicles...

The Leaf and Tesla are all electric with limited range...

The Tesla Model S list for 57k and a 160 mile range...for an additional 10k you can get a bigger battery and go 230 miles..an additional 10k and you get 300 miles...

So 77k gets ya 300 miles range...

[Veritas]

If you remember years ago....we made liquor and cigarette companies stop advertizing a life style that glamorized those vices. Why do you continue to see nothing but luxury gas guzzling 40,000 dollar vehicles everytime you turn on the TV, Laptop or magazine?
I dunno, man, I see lots of Honda, Toyota and Hyundai ads. Hummer is defunct. The last Bimmer ad I saw was for the 335d, bragging about the mileage.

What luxury gas guzzlers are you talking about? The new BMW and Mercedes lines get great mileage unless you buy something from the M or AMG line, and then all that means is that your MPG will be more than 15 but less than 20. The Jap cars, even the big dollar Lexus and Infinites are quite efficient.

Oh, and also, I'd like to support SicEm's point. Electric cars are a ****ing pipe dream in the USofA. But they'll work in Luxembourg.

[pphilfran]

I dunno, man, I see lots of Honda, Toyota and Hyundai ads. Hummer is defunct. The last Bimmer ad I saw was for the 335d, bragging about the mileage.

What luxury gas guzzlers are you talking about? The new BMW and Mercedes lines get great mileage unless you buy something from the M or AMG line, and then all that means is that your MPG will be more than 15 but less than 20. The Jap cars, even the big dollar Lexus and Infinites are quite efficient.

Oh, and also, I'd like to support SicEm's point. Electric cars are a ****ing pipe dream in the USofA. But they'll work in Luxembourg.

I don't think it is a pipe dream....just very early in the cycle...

If you can get 300 -400 miles of range in a car that cost 25k it would sell like hotcakes...it will take 10 years or so to get that range at that cost...

We need the Fed to standardize battery pack size and connections...then we could easily swap out a battery in 5 minutes or less...there is a vid out there that shows one companies process...too lazy to look for it...

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

This will just be another shot at nuclear power :(

[MR2-Sooner86]

If we are seriously going to turn to clean electric power we'll need to work on safe Nuclear Power and also maybe keep searching the Frontier of Fusion more as well.

We can't get fusion until we get fission. With the development of new nuclear plants we can get closer. The problem is creating a reaction, controlling that reaction, and containing it along with the heat.

They'll get it though.


I like the Windmills and the idea of more effiecient Solar Panels but we can't allow those industries to use our Tax Money to make it and then control it's life cycle by slowly introducing a fix one year and then introducing the new one like we did with TVs and Stereos.

Windmills and solar power is one of the biggest jokes I've ever heard in this whole "green energy" movement. If we want true green energy, nuclear is the way to go or look into clean coal.

Windmills take up so much space you can build a nuclear plant on less land and get so much more power. As for solar, it's good if you're in Florida but during the winter months up north what are you going to do?


I believe the Car makers...if forced....could make affordable fast vehicles that allowed us all to commute anywhere in the US and find recharging station in abundant locales.

Careful what you wish for.

It will come if you give it time. The Japanese were already doing it and that's what caused the Big Three to go under. They spent all of their R&D from the 90's thinking we'd have cheap gas forever while Toyota was making the Prius.

Now you have Ford who is re-working things after they got their act together. We have the V6 Mustang with 300 hp getting 30 mph and the 400 hp GT getting 25 mpg. Then you have the ECOboost line of engines which make awesome power with great gas milage.


The idea that it will take decades needs to be addressed sternly IMO. I hate losing V-8s and the era of muscle cars and such such as anyone....but we are in a financial war now.

You can have both.


If you remember years ago....we made liquor and cigarette companies stop advertizing a life style that glamorized those vices. Why do you continue to see nothing but luxury gas guzzling 40,000 dollar vehicles everytime you turn on the TV, Laptop or magazine?

Ye...no. I'm for NOT giving the government power to say what you can and cannot advertise. If you have the money to buy a gas guzzler and then you're barely making it when gas goes up because you didn't get something fuel efficient, sorry. It sucks to be you.

My freshman year of college I drove a 5.0 Mustang which I had in high school which, while fun, wasn't what I needed. In high school my commute was short, gas was cheap, and it didn't hurt my wallet. That changed in college so I sold the Mustang and drove a GEO Prizm until I found the MR2 which was sporty and got 35 mpg. I did NOT need the government telling me what I did and didn't need to buy. I was able to figure it out myself and thinking about what I needed compared to what I wanted. I wanted to drive the Mustang but I needed a car that was cheap to drive and would last me.


The Tesla Model S list for 57k and a 160 mile range...for an additional 10k you can get a bigger battery and go 230 miles..an additional 10k and you get 300 miles...

So 77k gets ya 300 miles range...

The Tesla S is also a performance car. It performs like many of the sport sedans. I know one the original Teslas or a prototype had performance figures that weren't too far from a Corvette.

[StoopTroup]

I dunno, man, I see lots of Honda, Toyota and Hyundai ads. Hummer is defunct. The last Bimmer ad I saw was for the 335d, bragging about the mileage.

What luxury gas guzzlers are you talking about? The new BMW and Mercedes lines get great mileage unless you buy something from the M or AMG line, and then all that means is that your MPG will be more than 15 but less than 20. The Jap cars, even the big dollar Lexus and Infinites are quite efficient.

Oh, and also, I'd like to support SicEm's point. Electric cars are a ****ing pipe dream in the USofA. But they'll work in Luxembourg.

Around here V....it's one Caddy, Mercedes, F-150-250, Silverado, Expedition...after another on TV. Like I said....the Toyotas, Hondas and such don't advertise near as much. Toyota did increase their ad campaigns after all the bad press...same as Taco Bell did after the meat deal.

I'm talking about the Companies that we agve huge dough and even though Ford wasn't one....they continue to make cars I won't buy.

The Imports? Hell....have you seen the mileage on a Tundra or Highlander?

You can get vehicles with smaller engines but you better be prepared to pay them off and drive them forever because you won't be able to get rig of it like you would with a gas guzzler.

Then....lets just take a look at how they control the demand for the cars. Even if you can afford to get a Dodge Challenger for instance...you'll pay $10,000 extra to get it.

I'm venting as it's just pretty sickening.

[pphilfran]

The Tesla S is also a performance car. It performs like many of the sport sedans. I know one the original Teslas or a prototype had performance figures that weren't too far from a Corvette.

I haven't knocked their performance...they are damn fast...

Down the road we could have some bad azz electric cars...they have max torque at 1 rpm...and torque is what smokes tires...

The true start of the demise of the Big 3 started in the late 60's...the Big 3 had no prior competition....a few low cost makes had made limited inroads...VW and Datsun...then the in 73 the oil embargo opened the doors to those smaller, more efficient vehicles...the land yachts that were wanted by all due to cheap oil were now the bane of society...European and Japanese cars were smaller...because that is what they sold in their home market...they were in the right place at the right time...as much luck as planning...

And then, when the Big 3 business plan of unending growth came to a screeching halt, the inevitable increase of market share taken by the imports caused the Big 3 to wallow in the entitlements that had promised...

[MR2-Sooner86]

Around here V....it's one Caddy, Mercedes, F-150-250, Silverado, Expedition...after another on TV. Like I said....the Toyotas, Hondas and such don't advertise near as much. Toyota did increase their ad campaigns after all the bad press...same as Taco Bell did after the meat deal.

I've seen imports advertised just as much. I'll admit I see more truck commercials but I also know allot of people who buy trucks and actually use them. I guess it could go either way.

Now as for Caddy and Mercedes, yeah I agree they advertise allot but it depends how you look like it. With the baby boomers there are allot of people retiring with the income to blow. Also, the average joe can't afford a Caddy or Mercedes. I mean allot of people can but I don't know many people who blow over $50,000 for their commuter or family grocery getter.

As for the F-150 Ford is actually offering an ECOboost in it starting this year.


Then....lets just take a look at how they control the demand for the cars. Even if you can afford to get a Dodge Challenger for instance...you'll pay $10,000 extra to get it.

I'm venting as it's just pretty sickening.

If gas gets to $5 they won't be driving it much either. They should've made wiser decisions.

Besides, who'd want an ugly Challenger anyway? ;):D


I haven't knocked their performance...they are damn fast...

Down the road we could have some bad azz electric cars...they have max torque at 1 rpm...and torque is what smokes tires...

I'm not knocking them. I'm just saying maybe they might get better range if they weren't so performance oriented. I really don't know though.


The true start of the demise of the Big 3 started in the late 60's...the Big 3 had no prior competition....a few low cost makes had made limited inroads...VW and Datsun...then the in 73 the oil embargo opened the doors to those smaller, more efficient vehicles...the land yachts that were wanted by all due to cheap oil were now the bane of society...European and Japanese cars were smaller...because that is what they sold in their home market...they were in the right place at the right time...as much luck as planning...

And then, when the Big 3 business plan of unending growth came to a screeching halt, the inevitable increase of market share taken by the imports caused the Big 3 to wallow in the entitlements that had promised...

The thing with the Big 3 is they didn't evolve. They did some but they were always fast to go back to their old ways.

Saturn? That was suppose to be GM's "import killer" but they never gave it the money to really go out there and compete. They just half-assed it.

GM still won't evolve. They can't seem to get away from their small blocks they developed in the 50's. You can only do so much to it before it's time to move on. I mean they're good engines but they're showing their age.

Ford? They were going to go that way. In the 80's the Probe was going to replace the Mustang and they wanted to model themselves after Mazda (which Ford owns part of). However with the success of the Explorer in the 90's and cheap gas that was quickly dropped for the SUV craze.

The high point of Ford was during the 90's they developed the modular engine family. It's smaller, produces more power, and has better gas milage than anything offered from GM or Dodge. A great example is the 5.0 Mustang which is a liter smaller, makes as much power, and gets better fuel economy than the Camaro.

I think all of them losing money, sales, and getting kicked around by the Japanese and the bust in '08 might have finally knocked, some, sense into them.

[pphilfran]

One other item...GM made a lot of fugly cars...

[StoopTroup]

100% of my comments is really pointed towards the ones that are Home Grown and took money from us. I don't care if they think they paid it back...even with interest.....I would have rather seen them take chances and really start making a product that everyone would want and would run the imports off and restore our faith in the American Vehicle Market.

I know that's a lot to ask these days as people can't sacrifice one damn penny themselves until the other guy does. I just think they really had a chance to set themselves apart from the rest and instead of new thinking and good solutions....they decided to play it safe with a few tries to see how we'd react and then just go right back to trying to be 0.00197% beter than the others

[yermom]

Americans love SUVs, so that's what they sold

they'd skirt the mileage ratings by making high MPG cars that lost money...

[pphilfran]

I've seen imports advertised just as much. I'll admit I see more truck commercials but I also know allot of people who buy trucks and actually use them. I guess it could go either way.

Now as for Caddy and Mercedes, yeah I agree they advertise allot but it depends how you look like it. With the baby boomers there are allot of people retiring with the income to blow. Also, the average joe can't afford a Caddy or Mercedes. I mean allot of people can but I don't know many people who blow over $50,000 for their commuter or family grocery getter.

As for the F-150 Ford is actually offering an ECOboost in it starting this year.



If gas gets to $5 they won't be driving it much either. They should've made wiser decisions.

Besides, who'd want an ugly Challenger anyway? ;):D



I'm not knocking them. I'm just saying maybe they might get better range if they weren't so performance oriented. I really don't know though.



The thing with the Big 3 is they didn't evolve. They did some but they were always fast to go back to their old ways.

Saturn? That was suppose to be GM's "import killer" but they never gave it the money to really go out there and compete. They just half-assed it.

GM still won't evolve. They can't seem to get away from their small blocks they developed in the 50's. You can only do so much to it before it's time to move on. I mean they're good engines but they're showing their age.

Ford? They were going to go that way. In the 80's the Probe was going to replace the Mustang and they wanted to model themselves after Mazda (which Ford owns part of). However with the success of the Explorer in the 90's and cheap gas that was quickly dropped for the SUV craze.

The high point of Ford was during the 90's they developed the modular engine family. It's smaller, produces more power, and has better gas milage than anything offered from GM or Dodge. A great example is the 5.0 Mustang which is a liter smaller, makes as much power, and gets better fuel economy than the Camaro.

I think all of them losing money, sales, and getting kicked around by the Japanese and the bust in '08 might have finally knocked, some, sense into them.

Good post...

[pphilfran]

The Japanese recovery might not be so simple....they are expecting a 25% shortfall in electrical production...3 hour rolling blackouts...

[Veritas]

The Japanese recovery might not be so simple....they are expecting a 25% shortfall in electrical production...3 hour rolling blackouts...
Yeah...I read an article speculating that the 11 nuke plants that went offline will never come back on again, resulting in an immediate 20% loss of electrical power.

One has to wonder how this will affect the tentacle pr()n industry.

[StoopTroup]

Americans love SUVs, so that's what they sold

they'd skirt the mileage ratings by making high MPG cars that lost money...

See Dave....that's exactly what I was getting at. They just manipulate the market. I understand companies have to do whatever they can to survive but once they fail....they can just go bankrupt IMO. Instead we get suckered into loaning them money to do it again.

What's that saying?

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity?

[MR2-Sooner86]

See Dave....that's exactly what I was getting at. They just manipulate the market. I understand companies have to do whatever they can to survive but once they fail....they can just go bankrupt IMO. Instead we get suckered into loaning them money to do it again.

What's that saying?

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity?

In regards to GM I think they are really trying due to that fact. Of course, they know the American people bailed them out and are looking at them under the microscope. Which is what I REALLY think this Volt thing is all about. If they went back to their old ways many, many people would want their heads and it'd be a PR nightmare. I mean Ford is already doing allot better in sales because people see them as "the one who didn't take Obama's money" so you add to that and they'd be in trouble again.

I mean if you watch TV or listen to the radio a bit I'm sure you've noticed GM's "hey look at us we're cool, hip, and we're doing new things like plant trees!" They also seem to be really pushing Buick to be the BMW/Lexus/Infinity killer. I doubt it'll work.

[pphilfran]

See Dave....that's exactly what I was getting at. They just manipulate the market. I understand companies have to do whatever they can to survive but once they fail....they can just go bankrupt IMO. Instead we get suckered into loaning them money to do it again.

What's that saying?

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity?

The problem is that the US tries to regulate sales by mandating mileage standards...

When gas prices are cheap, Joe Blow Average Consumer, doesn't give a chit about mileage...JBAC's memory is about as long as my wang, a fleeting second...

If GM stopped producing bigger vehicles, but the consumer was still interested in buying those bigger vehicles, don't you think some other company would step in to produce those HIGH PROFIT vehicles?

The crux of the matter is that past/current energy policy, policy that promoted cheap gas, is the reason we buy less efficient vehicles...the US consumer loved their land yachts...and for the most part they still do...and US policy continues to prioritize cheap fuel...

The Fed can produce policy that attempts to cram small, fuel efficient, and expensive vehicles down the consumers throat but the consumer will just barf it back up when fuel prices come down...

Look at Prius sales...prior to the recession and in a period of cheap fuel the Fed had to subsidize Prius sales...there was no sales backlog....once fuel prices skyrocketed Prius sales also boomed...a 6 month waiting list...yet we still offered the rebate...and now sales have fallen back off due to lower gas prices...

What drove those Prius sales? The Rebate? CAFE standards? Hell, no, gas prices...

We are at a serious crossroad...we need sound energy policy over the long term...but no...we continue to put in place policy that prioritizes low gas prices..

So low gas prices ain't the answer when you are trying to sell fuel efficient vehicles...

We are at/near/close to a peak oil situation...the Saudi fields are at or past peak....we need to slowly nudge (squeeze) the consumer into wanting vehicles that achieve better mileage...and to that we should slowly raise the gas tax, an additional dime a year...leave diesel tax as is....

Both the consumer and industry would look much more closely at mileage at purchase if they knew there would be a buck in gas tax in 5 years...we would see better results than by using f'n CAFE standards...everyone would know what was coming...unlike now where we can fool ourselves into thinking these higher gas prices are just short term hiccups and everything will be back to normal in 6 months...

How does Europe control sales of their vehicles? Are they more or less successful that the US at pushing fuel efficient vehicles?

[pphilfran]

In regards to GM I think they are really trying due to that fact. Of course, they know the American people bailed them out and are looking at them under the microscope. Which is what I REALLY think this Volt thing is all about. If they went back to their old ways many, many people would want their heads and it'd be a PR nightmare. I mean Ford is already doing allot better in sales because people see them as "the one who didn't take Obama's money" so you add to that and they'd be in trouble again.

I mean if you watch TV or listen to the radio a bit I'm sure you've noticed GM's "hey look at us we're cool, hip, and we're doing new things like plant trees!" They also seem to be really pushing Buick to be the BMW/Lexus/Infinity killer. I doubt it'll work.

They have their nutz in a vise with the Volt...

This thing must come out trouble free...it has gotta sell...we can't hear any battery concerns for the next five years...not a peep...

They spent billions and a decade getting this thing to market...

[MR2-Sooner86]

How does Europe control sales of their vehicles? Are they more or less successful that the US at pushing fuel efficient vehicles?

I've talked with some friends in Europe and over there they're really starting to get into diesels. I've mentioned on here before there are small twin-turboed V-twin litte Audis and such making decent power, lots of torque, rev high, and getting pretty decent milage.

The thing is we can't do that here because of our emissions standards.

I was talking to a guy at Ford and there's a three cylinder diesel Ranger offered in Brazil that is great for a daily driver but can haul whatever you need with great fuel economy. So why aren't they selling it here? It won't pass our emissions standards.

[pphilfran]

MR2, GM sales have really picked up...go here and look at new vehicle sales...

http://www.motorintelligence.com/m_frameset.html

Jan/Feb sales had GM up 46% over the same period last year...not saying too much since the base was so low...they did outsell Ford by 100k vehicles during the first two months...last year Ford was running neck and neck with GM in total sales...

[yermom]

i think they are out of touch with the Volt. IMO that should have been GM Electric Car 2.0 or later

most of the people that could afford to buy one, won't.

i think they should have started with something closer to a Metro with a forklift motor like the hobbyists are doing. cheap, minimalist to get the the tech accepted and start fine tuning it. i don't want to beta test your new car for you for $40,000

that's what Honda did with the Insight, not many people bought them, but they still got it out there and then put the hybrid tech in their other cars once they figured it out on a bigger scale

what i'd really want is a small truck. i guess the electric S-10 didn't go over that well? i'd love something like that.

[texaspokieokie]

i have a friend in WI that put an electric motor in some kinda econo-box. just for fun. not much range.

[pphilfran]

I've talked with some friends in Europe and over there they're really starting to get into diesels. I've mentioned on here before there are small twin-turboed V-twin litte Audis and such making decent power, lots of torque, rev high, and getting pretty decent milage.

The thing is we can't do that here because of our emissions standards.

I was talking to a guy at Ford and there's a three cylinder diesel Ranger offered in Brazil that is great for a daily driver but can haul whatever you need with great fuel economy. So why aren't they selling it here? It won't pass our emissions standards.

Diesel tech has come a long way...those little blown, direct injected 4 bangers are torque monsters...

The current Chevy truck diesel (I am sure other use the same system) has a separate 5 gallon urea tank and then injects that urea into a special cat converter to reduce emissions...your tank runs empty you start losing power at different mileage levels...

I am sure that will boost diesel sales...

[Penguin]

everything is either wet, smashed, or nuked...

That's what she said.

[JLEW1818]

all of my companies steel comes from Japan....

[texaspokieokie]

all of my companies steel comes from Japan....

now you can get it from mexico.

[Veritas]

most of the people that could afford to buy one, won't.
Most of the people that could afford to buy one didn't get there by being stupid.

Burying that much money in a:
- new car
- from GM
- in the first release year
- with ****-all for driving range
would be the dictionary definition of stupid.

I'd rather take that $40K, buy a 500+ horse '06 M5:

http://www.malaysiaminilover.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/bmw-m5-2006-owners-manual.jpg

then take the leftover cash and buy this:

http://www.passionperformance.ca/motorcycle/img/photos/2007_Ducati_Hypermotard_image_0_3040.jpg

Because **** gas mileage. If I'm dropping $40K on wheels, which I never will regardless of how much money I have, it's going to be fun fun fun.

[Veritas]

.

[pphilfran]

Most of the people that could afford to buy one didn't get there by being stupid.

Burying that much money in a:
- new car
- from GM
- in the first release year
- with ****-all for driving range
would be the dictionary definition of stupid.

I'd rather take that $40K, buy a 500+ horse '06 M5:

http://www.malaysiaminilover.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/bmw-m5-2006-owners-manual.jpg

then take the leftover cash and buy this:

http://www.passionperformance.ca/motorcycle/img/photos/2007_Ducati_Hypermotard_image_0_3040.jpg

Because **** gas mileage. If I'm dropping $40K on wheels, which I never will regardless of how much money I have, it's going to be fun fun fun.

Good choices.....but you are going to destroy the world!!!

[HBick]

all of my companies steel comes from Japan....

That's super unamerican

[HBick]

And hey Veritas, from the first page, it doesn't look like Japan is doing just fine.

[StoopTroup]

Yeah but if you notice....some folks did send then money and it didn't fix anything. Down the road is where they might need help....there's no reason to even debate it IMO. Homey is right about it and later...we'll see if they need our dough. There are plenty of Countries we have sent aid to who are doing fine now that haven't offered a dime. Give it time....things will sort themselves out.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

There are plenty of Countries we have sent aid to who are doing fine now that haven't offered a dime. Give it time....things will sort themselves out.
Aid doesn't always have to be reciprocal

[StoopTroup]

Aid doesn't always have to be reciprocal

Your right and I'm not sending any. The folks in Haiti still need it worse

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Your right and I'm not sending any. The folks in Haiti still need it worse
Agreed, Haiti still looked like the quake just happened last summer.

[sooner59]

Apparently a volcano in Japan is now erupting. Those poor bastards can't catch a break.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Apparently a volcano in Japan is now erupting. Those poor bastards can't catch a break.
Don't worry, they will be fine after 10,000 people die.

[StoopTroup]

Funabashi, Chiba Prefecture, Japan was where one of our relatives lives. He was Stateside when it hit. He's said his place wasn't affected evidently he's called friends about it. It's right in Tokyo Bay area.

Scared his Momma though. She wasn't sure he was in the States when it happened.

[sooneron]

I've talked with some friends in Europe and over there they're really starting to get into diesels. I've mentioned on here before there are small twin-turboed V-twin litte Audis and such making decent power, lots of torque, rev high, and getting pretty decent milage.



Starting? I was in Paris a year ago and every other car was diesel. That may be an understatement.

[MR2-Sooner86]

Starting? I was in Paris a year ago and every other car was diesel. That may be an understatement.

It depends I guess. My friends in England and Sweden told me about it a few years ago. I'm sure it has changed but I really wouldn't know how much.

[HBick]

Yeah except diesel's wont start on those two days a year in OK when it's freaking freezing outside. But that'd be a good excuse to miss work I assume?

[HBick]

Oh and btw, a nuclear reactor just exploded about 15 minutes ago. But they aren't sure if it's leaking yet. So to reiterate, I don't think Japan will be fine.

[sooneron]

Pretty much every bmw 3/5 series I saw was diesel. Rode around a lot in a Lancia TD "wagon". Peppy little engine. It's damn shame that BMW puts such a high price point on their diesels.

[sooneron]

Yeah except diesel's wont start on those two days a year in OK when it's freaking freezing outside. But that'd be a good excuse to miss work I assume?

It's not cold in ger, czech, france?:confused:

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

It's not cold in ger, czech, france?:confused:
http://www.cityofsound.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/10/29/firebombing_of_dresden.jpg
Nope

[Bourbon St Sooner]

My brother and collegue TUSooner knows I love him. And I know he hates this kind of talk. But let's face facts. NOLA is a failed social experiment. It's a quaint place of annual debauchery with an important sea port. I say keep the port open, let the rest go back to salt marsh and swamp.

OH ye of ignorance. Sad, very sad.

[Breadburner]

Yeah except diesel's wont start on those two days a year in OK when it's freaking freezing outside. But that'd be a good excuse to miss work I assume?

You must drive a Ford diesel.....

[texaspokieokie]

Yeah except diesel's wont start on those two days a year in OK when it's freaking freezing outside. But that'd be a good excuse to miss work I assume?

there's a lotta diesels around here that seem to start just fine, no matter how cold it gets.

[olevetonahill]

In the Long run I agree Japan will be just fine. Its the immediate that they need help with
I have NO problem with The US giving them all the Humanitarian aid they need

There are thousands going with out Food, water and shelter
Ill keep prayin for all of them

[OULenexaman]

who dat? ;)

[sappstuf]

Who says they are "better" vehicles...

The Leaf and Tesla are all electric with limited range...

The Tesla Model S list for 57k and a 160 mile range...for an additional 10k you can get a bigger battery and go 230 miles..an additional 10k and you get 300 miles...

So 77k gets ya 300 miles range...

Phil,

do you know what kind of technology they are using with their battery packs? 300 miles is impressive if that is what it really gets.

Seating for seven and two trunks.. I'm in!

Can you lend me $77K?? ;)

[badger]

And that trash makes some damn good po' boys, gumbo and all sorts of stuff. Not to mention the music which is great. But then again, I've always had a soft spot for NOLA after I was down there in January 2007. Had a great time and would go back in a heart beat.

I'm glad you had a good time - My only New Orleans experience was when I was cursed at a lot and made to feel as unwelcome as possible in January 2004. It wasn't just in the Sugar Bowl - it was everywhere else that if it wasn't a four-letter word, it was "tigah bait," even chanted at the little kids.

I felt bad about the natural disaster and all, but even before then, I swore that I never wanted to go back to NOLA. It wasn't a racial thing - I don't think I had a single bad thing said to me by a non-white person - it was a NOLA thing.

They deserve Les Miles. I hope they have to keep him as their coach for the next 20 years and never win another title because of his randomness :les:

[Veritas]

Oh and btw, a nuclear reactor just exploded about 15 minutes ago. But they aren't sure if it's leaking yet. So to reiterate, I don't think Japan will be fine.
We dropped two atom bombs on them and they survived to build an incredible world economic force (with the help of MacArthur and Deming).

They *will* be fine. Today, they're up **** creek.

[SoonerJack]

The thing is we can't do that here because of our emissions standards.

I was talking to a guy at Ford and there's a three cylinder diesel Ranger offered in Brazil that is great for a daily driver but can haul whatever you need with great fuel economy. So why aren't they selling it here? It won't pass our emissions standards.

Spent a week in Lima last year and that place is freakin' filthy. Why? Anything that rolls has absolutely no pollution controls on it. My boogers were black for a week.

Emission standards? Do want.

[Veritas]

Spent a week in Lima last year and that place is freakin' filthy. Why? Anything that rolls has absolutely no pollution controls on it. My boogers were black for a week.

Emission standards? Do want.
Emission standards, yes. CARB? No.

[StoopTroup]

They have now found 2000 bodies in one town....that's just the one's they've found. Once the tzunami went over the breakwater there was obviously no way for lots of folks to make it out....

Pretty sad

[olevetonahill]

They have now found 2000 bodies in one town....that's just the one's they've found. Once the tzunami went over the breakwater there was obviously no way for lots of folks to make it out....

Pretty sad

Most Know Im not real fond of asians, But My heart goes out to the People of Japan

[StoopTroup]

There was a guy in a boat kind trying to explain what was here and what was there. He was saying there was a scallop farm in this one place two days ago. It looks like the place is gone forever now as the water hasn't receded.....The tide they depended on for food is gone.

Not a huge disaster to some folks but to them....it's probably a pretty big deal.


Aquaculture operations in Japan, as a rule, make the most efficient use of whatever they are working with, which is very evident with respect to scallop farming. With annual scallop meat production of 800 mt at current market prices, the Japanese farmers are certainly in the money.
The introduction of the very high-speed ear drilling and automatic attachment machines, which are capable of rigging 3,600 scallops per hour, will certainly change the efficiencies of what is taking place in Japan and North America.


This being said....better get your scallops on quick...I bet the prices go up fast....

[Ike]

We can't get fusion until we get fission. With the development of new nuclear plants we can get closer. The problem is creating a reaction, controlling that reaction, and containing it along with the heat.

They'll get it though.




This makes no sense. The problems associated with fusion and fission are about as similar to one another as dogs and lava. Controlling and containing fission is a pretty simple process. You build your containment layers to handle a few thousand degrees celsius, because that's about the highest you'll get in a meltdown. You operate at much lower temperatures. Now, thats not exactly a simple thing to do...But we have quite a bit of experience with it. Meltdowns are dangerous, but can be contained.

With fusion, you need to squeeze a bunch of fast moving atoms into a teeny-tiny volume...there are various methods to do this. This though translates into operating temperatures in the millions of degrees celsius. Far higher than a fission reactor. Further, getting the energy out is quite a complicated thing...

Fusion may still be a long ways off. And development of fission power will have little to no influence on how long a ways off it is.

[Mongo]

Look at Ike talking out of his *** again, acting like he knows something


:D

[olevetonahill]

Look at Ike talking out of his *** again, acting like he knows something


:D

Ikes smarter than any 3 nOObs put together :D

[Ike]

Look at Ike talking out of his *** again, acting like he knows something


:D

Yup...there I go again...


But I thought everybody knew that stuff...

[StoopTroup]

Fusion may still be a long ways off. And development of fission power will have little to no influence on how long a ways off it is.

So true. I have very little formal training on Radioactivity other than knowing it's about as dangerous as messing with a Deadly Snake.

I have watched Nova and other Documentaries regarding the Fusion and Fission. The last time I ever saw anything on Fusions Advancement was the project in the late 80's I think where they were up to around a billion dollars and it started to become a big political fight over who got money in the Energy Research Communities. I think it was when NASA was really getting hammered about their budgets...I could be wrong about that thought.

Like you said though...I don't believe they have found a good way to get the energy that's emitted? Other thoughts on Fusion would be..."Is there ever a scenario where a fusion could get out of control like or worse than a Fission Meltdown? In other words...down sides?

http://www.evworld.com/images/pppl_fusionreactor.jpg

[StoopTroup]

Research into controlled fusion, with the aim of producing fusion power for the production of electricity, has been conducted for over 50 years. It has been accompanied by extreme scientific and technological difficulties, but has resulted in progress. At present, break-even (self-sustaining) controlled fusion reactions have not been demonstrated in the few tokamak-type reactors around the world. Workable designs for a reactor that theoretically will deliver ten times more fusion energy than the amount needed to heat up plasma to required temperatures (see ITER) were originally scheduled to be operational in 2018, however this has been delayed and a new date has not been stated.

[Ike]

So true. I have very little formal training on Radioactivity other than knowing it's about as dangerous as messing with a Deadly Snake.

I have watched Nova and other Documentaries regarding the Fusion and Fission. The last time I ever saw anything on Fusions Advancement was the project in the late 80's I think where they were up to around a billion dollars and it started to become a big political fight over who got money in the Energy Research Communities. I think it was when NASA was really getting hammered about their budgets...I could be wrong about that thought.

Like you said though...I don't believe they have found a good way to get the energy that's emitted? Other thoughts on Fusion would be..."Is there ever a scenario where a fusion could get out of control like or worse than a Fission Meltdown? In other words...down sides?

http://www.evworld.com/images/pppl_fusionreactor.jpg

There are downsides. Neutrons from fusion behave like neutrons from fission. They can and do get captured by the other material in the "core", and can thus make the core radioactive when it previously was not. But that radioactivity has a much shorter half-life than that of fissionable material.

As far as an out of control chain-reaction, as is possible in a fission reactor, thats not really possible in the same sense with fusion. There are potential downsides though. Like a loss of containment, if that containment is through magnetic fields (as in a tokomak). Then you get a nice spray in all directions of fast moving ions. From what I understand though, there are ways of mitigating that too.

But tokomaks probably aren't going to be the way forward with this...there are some other promising designs that deserve more exploration.

[MR2-Sooner86]

"Is there ever a scenario where a fusion could get out of control like or worse than a Fission Meltdown? In other words...down sides?

I think the problem with fusion is there's nothing it can't go through as it's pretty much a small sun. So if there were a meltdown it means the thing would just melt down everything around it until it exhausted it's fuels. I guess theoretically if something happened the thing could just sink down into the earth and keep going all the way through the crust.

I don't think we'll be able to do it until we have the technology to produce high energy fields to keep the fusion reaction into place. Then of course you'll have to have backups to those fields and backups to those backups. It's tricky that's for sure.

[Echoes]

Alot of you guys don't seem to understand exactly how these nuclear power plants work, and just like to read whatever Fox news or CNN tells you... Not trying to come across brash or anything like that, but let me assure you.. The nuclear power plants are in no danger of leaking radiation or causing a fallout in a 30 mile radius. It's just plain not true.

Japan knows what they're doing, this isn't mother russia. There won't be any chernoybl's here. I'm not exactly a nuclear physicist... but here's an in depth explanation in layman's terms about how these things work from a physicist, and why even huge explosions like you saw on the news means absolutely nothing. These explosions were actually controlled and expected. There aren't a legion of homer simpson's running these places, like the media would have you beleive.

Anyways, the article is kind of long but it's worth your 5 minutes to understand how modern Western nuclear power works, and why it's just about as safe as it could possibly ever be.

http://mitnse.com/

[StoopTroup]

In other news....

NASA Co-ordinator Dead after falling to his death.....

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

http://a.blip.tv/scripts/flash/showplayer.swf?file=http://blip.tv/rss/flash/1671472&showplayerpath=http://blip.tv/scripts/flash/showplayer.swf&feedurl=http://ctbtomedia.blip.tv/rss/flash&brandname=blip.tv&brandlink=http://blip.tv/%3Futm_source%3Dbrandlink&enablejs=true

semi unrelated

[Turd_Ferguson]

In other news....

NASA Co-ordinator Dead after falling to his death.....I can assure you, falling from 2 fitty onto concrick was messy.

[HBick]

I'm glad you had a good time - My only New Orleans experience was when I was cursed at a lot and made to feel as unwelcome as possible in January 2004. It wasn't just in the Sugar Bowl - it was everywhere else that if it wasn't a four-letter word, it was "tigah bait," even chanted at the little kids.

I felt bad about the natural disaster and all, but even before then, I swore that I never wanted to go back to NOLA. It wasn't a racial thing - I don't think I had a single bad thing said to me by a non-white person - it was a NOLA thing.

They deserve Les Miles. I hope they have to keep him as their coach for the next 20 years and never win another title because of his randomness :les:

I was down there during the LSU Notre Dame Sugar Bowl. Maybe I only had a good time because I discovered the joy that is a hand grenade, ever clear never went down so easy. But I've been there during the fall and for Mardi Gras and it's definitely an experience. IF you ever go back, which looks doubtful from this previous post, go down for one of the music festivals. Those are a good time

[Blue]

but here's an in depth explanation in layman's terms about how these things work from a physicist, and why even huge explosions like you saw on the news means absolutely nothing. These explosions were actually controlled and expected.
http://mitnse.com/

Is that why the company is declaring an emergency, evacuating all but 50 dead men walking and calling the US for help?

This is far from controlled and expected, imo.

Of course I'm no nuclear physicist, but it's not looking good.

[StoopTroup]

I can assure you, falling from 2 fitty onto concrick was messy.

Seen it. Spinal fluid isn't something you see often in Life. I'd rather not see it in that form ever again.

[StoopTroup]

Is that why the company is declaring an emergency, evacuating all but 50 dead men walking and calling the US for help?

This is far from controlled and expected, imo.

Of course I'm no nuclear physicist, but it's not looking good.

They do seem to keep plugging away at it though. You aren't seeing everyone leave the area like after the Russia incident.

[Blue]

Alot of you guys don't seem to understand exactly how these nuclear power plants work, and just like to read whatever Fox news or CNN tells you... Not trying to come across brash or anything like that, but let me assure you.. The nuclear power plants are in no danger of leaking radiation or causing a fallout in a 30 mile radius. It's just plain not true.

Japan knows what they're doing, this isn't mother russia. There won't be any chernoybl's here. I'm not exactly a nuclear physicist... but here's an in depth explanation in layman's terms about how these things work from a physicist, and why even huge explosions like you saw on the news means absolutely nothing. These explosions were actually controlled and expected. There aren't a legion of homer simpson's running these places, like the media would have you beleive.

Anyways, the article is kind of long but it's worth your 5 minutes to understand how modern Western nuclear power works, and why it's just about as safe as it could possibly ever be.

http://mitnse.com/

Uhhh....

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/03/14/explosion-heard-at-japan-nuclear-plant/?icid=maing%7Cmain5%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk2%7C50012

[SoCaliSooner]

The only bad thing about Katrina and NOLA is it washed that trash up all over the country. :mad:

Editor's note: Yeah, I called the people of NOLA trash. Sue me.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c285/fdmedictomc/firepics/Katrina%202005/OnBourbonStreet.jpg

[StoopTroup]

I hope Anderson Cooper doesn't have to have his sexy scrubbed. He's pretty close to the plant

[sooner59]

Charlie Sheen invented cold fusion while railing a pr0n star! WINNING!

[Blue]

Their stock market has tanked 15% in two days. Ouch.

[yermom]

that's all?

[Blue]

that's all?

I guess if you are a millionaire 150 thousand aint much...:D