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StoopTroup
3/12/2011, 02:52 PM
I'm not looking for what you think about previous drafts or whether or not you agree in a draft....

What I'd like to hear is this....

If we had to have a draft...what would it look like and what changes in exclusions should be made now that we have Women and Gays in the Military.

It's my understanding that one of the reasons we don't do a draft now is that it's more expensive over the time if you make someone serve vs opposed to an all volunteer Service Man or Woman. Contracting the rest of the support is cheaper?

HBick
3/12/2011, 02:57 PM
I think women should be required to register on their 18th birthday like I had to.

Also, I think people shouldn't be worried about sexual orientation, you should be concerned if the person next to you is someone you can trust with your life.

And if the US had another draft, I would be willing to bet that there would be huge protests against it by my generation 18-30

StoopTroup
3/12/2011, 03:02 PM
No doubt there would be protests....what I'm getting at is this....

If you live in this Country....why would you now be allowed to be excluded because of your status or religious beliefs?

Make it everyone's duty as an American.

Folks in a wheelchair, Down Syndrome....physical handicaps I understand. Because you are against it doesn't hold water.

You can believe what you want but you'll still be required to serve.

Okla-homey
3/12/2011, 03:02 PM
I'm not looking for what you think about previous drafts or whether or not you agree in a draft....

What I'd like to hear is this....

If we had to have a draft...what would it look like and what changes in exclusions should be made now that we have Women and Gays in the Military.

I think they should be sure to draft from all sectors of our society and allow darn few exemptions. I also think they should only draft high school graduates. That helps avoid drafting thugs and also helps insure we get plenty of college kids. Boys, girls, gay, straights. There is room for all under Uncle Sam's OD green canvas tent. And for three years service. That's because it takes a year to train a kid to do anything useful.

StoopTroup
3/12/2011, 03:09 PM
I think they should be sure to draft from all sectors of our society and allow darn few exemptions. I also think they should only draft high school graduates. That helps avoid drafting thugs and also helps insure we get plenty of college kids. Boys, girls, gay, straights. There is room for all under Uncle Sam's OD green canvas tent. And for three years service. That's because it takes a year to train a kid to do anything useful.

I'd have no problem with kids in school taking an exemption as long as after 4-5 years they serve their Country. After Serving they can do what ever they want. Should they decide to enlist and defer College they get better benefits. We'll always have plenty of smart folks with degrees that wish to make the Military their life for 10-20 years.

Just a thought...

Nevermind...I like your idea better.

pphilfran
3/12/2011, 03:11 PM
You can't exclude high school dropouts...

They have a chance to make something of themselves in the armed forces...out on the streets without a GED and they will be sucking the Fed tit for their entire life...

HBick
3/12/2011, 03:11 PM
No doubt there would be protests....what I'm getting at is this....

If you live in this Country....why would you now be allowed to be excluded because of your status or religious beliefs?

Make it everyone's duty as an American.

Folks in a wheelchair, Down Syndrome....physical handicaps I understand. Because you are against it doesn't hold water.

You can believe what you want but you'll still be required to serve.

Completely agree, EVERYONE has to serve. If you have a physical disability, you can help your country in many other ways. But at the same time, if you look at WW2, women were instrumental in manufacturing while the War Machine was at work. Then again we do outsource everything now so it wouldn't be a problem right?

But back to the physical disability thing, obviously there are scenarios where people would be unable to serve, but I would hope that the majority of American's would want to serve their country in some capacity. But then again, I have no desire to join the military. Contradictions galore!


I think they should be sure to draft from all sectors of our society and allow darn few exemptions. I also think they should only draft high school graduates. That helps avoid drafting thugs and also helps insure we get plenty of college kids. Boys, girls, gay, straights. There is room for all under Uncle Sam's OD green canvas tent. And for three years service. That's because it takes a year to train a kid to do anything useful.

This sarcasm? Everyone should serve. I don't care if you lack a college degree, infantry needs people as well. And besides, I have a college degree (received it in the mail last week actually), and it's not doing a whole lot for me right now. But Okla-homey are you suggesting we institute the same policy as Israel? Mandatory service at 18? In this scenario of course.

pphilfran
3/12/2011, 03:14 PM
Completely agree, EVERYONE has to serve. If you have a physical disability, you can help your country in many other ways. But at the same time, if you look at WW2, women were instrumental in manufacturing while the War Machine was at work. Then again we do outsource everything now so it wouldn't be a problem right?

But back to the physical disability thing, obviously there are scenarios where people would be unable to serve, but I would hope that the majority of American's would want to serve their country in some capacity. But then again, I have no desire to join the military. Contradictions galore!



This sarcasm? Everyone should serve. I don't care if you lack a college degree, infantry needs people as well. And besides, I have a college degree (received it in the mail last week actually), and it's not doing a whole lot for me right now. But Okla-homey are you suggesting we institute the same policy as Israel? Mandatory service at 18? In this scenario of course.

I would use Israeli policy...

OUthunder
3/12/2011, 03:15 PM
:pop:

StoopTroup
3/12/2011, 03:16 PM
I understand Homey's deal in that you want people who wish to be a part of this great Country that aren't a big disicipline problem.

What concerns me is it's just another way for someone to steer their kid around the draft. Drop out and you can work for Daddy's Company.

pphilfran
3/12/2011, 03:19 PM
I understand Homey's deal in that you want people who wish to be a part of this great Country that aren't a big disicipline problem.

What concerns me is it's just another way for someone to steer their kid around the draft. Drop out and you can work for Daddy's Company.

IF the Army can't discipline their azz...I am sure they will be a productive part of society...

HBick
3/12/2011, 03:19 PM
I understand Homey's deal in that you want people who wish to be a part of this great Country that aren't a big disicipline problem.

What concerns me is it's just another way for someone to steer their kid around the draft. Drop out and you can work for Daddy's Company.


Luckily Daddy's Company usually has other people who can sue for discrimination in the work place if the heir apparent isn't qualified. Sue Others To Get Rich = The American Dream post 1980

StoopTroup
3/12/2011, 03:20 PM
Luckily Daddy's Company usually has other people who can sue for discrimination in the work place if the heir apparent isn't qualified. Sue Others To Get Rich = The American Dream post 1980

Not sure what that has to do with any of this. In the World were talking about...Daddy would be employing lots of folks who served in the military

OUthunder
3/12/2011, 03:21 PM
I understand Homey's deal in that you want people who wish to be a part of this great Country that aren't a big disicipline problem.

What concerns me is it's just another way for someone to steer their kid around the draft. Drop out and you can work for Daddy's Company.

I would assume you'd have to be pretty disciplined to take it up the *** on a regular basis?

StoopTroup
3/12/2011, 03:24 PM
I would assume you'd have to be pretty disciplined to take it up the *** on a regular basis?

no idea skipper? :D

OUthunder
3/12/2011, 03:26 PM
no idea skipper? :D

Notice my question mark. :D

StoopTroup
3/12/2011, 03:27 PM
Notice mine? :D

OUthunder
3/12/2011, 03:27 PM
We're just two ****in hillbillies.

HBick
3/12/2011, 03:27 PM
Not sure what that has to do with any of this. In the World were talking about...Daddy would be employing lots of folks who served in the military

Well not everyone would be able to serve, and they would continue working. Besides if OK has their way, if you drop out, you can't have a driver's license

StoopTroup
3/12/2011, 03:28 PM
I have a huge question mark....

?

OUthunder
3/12/2011, 03:28 PM
Notice mine? :D

Not that there's anything wrong with that. :D

HBick
3/12/2011, 03:29 PM
I have a huge question mark....

?

I'm sorry, I'm still battling a brutal hangover

StoopTroup
3/12/2011, 03:29 PM
Well not everyone would be able to serve, and they would continue working. Besides if OK has their way, if you drop out, you can't have a driver's license

You are continuing to mix in the what if and not understand that the idea here is to get rid of all exemptions just because someone might wet themselves at boot camp.

sooner59
3/12/2011, 03:38 PM
I have no insight on the current rules or setup for the draft. What is the status of the only child? Just curious.

StoopTroup
3/12/2011, 03:41 PM
I have no insight on the current rules or setup for the draft. What is the status of the only child? Just curious.

Good point. I have no idea. Thing is for what I'm saying to happen....we'd see our politicians argue until whoever the current President was was forced to make a decision to institute a draft.

You just need to speak on what you think the only child rule ought to be in this new system we are trying to create.

sooner59
3/12/2011, 03:53 PM
I know this will sound biased here because I am an only child, but if they are going to allow women and others be drafted, it would seem like they would try to cut way back on drafting an only child. Isn't that what Saving Private Ryan was about? His brothers were killed and he was the last child. That being said, I am not afraid of being drafted if we go to war. If I have to serve, then so it. But it would be awfully hard on the parents, especially if they weren't able to have children anymore or if they had to spend $30K+ for in vitro just to have a child.

StoopTroup
3/12/2011, 03:58 PM
You aren't special....if they keep some baby batter and a few ovaries on hand they can make another baby. :D

Maybe we need to require your parents spit out a minimum of two Children or we can just repeal the Geneva Convention rules against cloning under circumstances like your's where you were killed.

I dub you #60


Ummmmm....maybe you can bank up some of your batter and it can be used to impregnate a Woman who's Hubby can't have a child and your parents Legacy can continue.

We've come a long way since Private Ryan

Your Parent's should understand what a worthy cause it was they lost you to. Also....serving isn't exactly a Death Sentence. Private Ryan just wanted to stay with his Unit. He could have continued to serve in a less dangerous position than the front lines.

Okla-homey
3/12/2011, 04:07 PM
You can't exclude high school dropouts...

They have a chance to make something of themselves in the armed forces...out on the streets without a GED and they will be sucking the Fed tit for their entire life...

No. they'll end up in jail and die young. Other than that, you are correct.

And as to excluding based on high school graduation, the military can choose to exclude on that basis. Most branches already do. I know the AF won't take a GED "grad" unless he or she has two years of college. That's because a GED does not equal a high school diploma. That's just a fact.

texaspokieokie
3/12/2011, 04:07 PM
WOULD BE SILLY TO EXEMPT "ONLY CHILD".

StoopTroup
3/12/2011, 04:10 PM
No Child left behind the Military Version?

Okla-homey
3/12/2011, 04:13 PM
I have no insight on the current rules or setup for the draft. What is the status of the only child? Just curious.

All males at 18 must register. There are no exemption policies in effect because no one's being drafted.

And for the record, exemptions suck. I agree with those who say that if we had a draft, and if anyone's son or daugher was subject to it, this nation would be much more measured in its use of military force. As it now stands, no one protests the ongoing wars because no one is compelled to go get shot at against their will.

That's not to say we shouldn't be in SWA. We should. We have too many national interests tied up there. But it just seems to me if we are going to continue to suck up dead dinosaurs from Arab-land, and our economy is dependent on same, everyone in the US ought to have skin in the game. Literally.

STUpendOUs
3/12/2011, 04:14 PM
I really don't care... I just hope to be picked up in the first or second rounds...

No one wants to be the Brady Quinn of this kind of draft...

StoopTroup
3/12/2011, 04:15 PM
Everybody

sooner59
3/12/2011, 04:17 PM
I never said exempt only children. I just wouldn't see the need to draft many of them if they are drafting a wider array of people. On a side note, if we straight up went to war....not this Iraq/Afghanistan stuff....but all out war, depending on who we went to war with, may not even need a draft with all of the technological advances, drones, jets, smart bombs, missiles, etc.

Okla-homey
3/12/2011, 04:25 PM
I never said exempt only children. I just wouldn't see the need to draft many of them if they are drafting a wider array of people. On a side note, if we straight up went to war....not this Iraq/Afghanistan stuff....but all out war, depending on who we went to war with, may not even need a draft with all of the technological advances, drones, jets, smart bombs, missiles, etc.

This is sacrilege coming from a retired AF officer, because our doctrine has always asserted that you can control land from the air.

But you cannot. It takes boots on the ground too. And those boots should be filled by the feet of Americans from across our social spectrum IMHO.

MsProudSooner2
3/12/2011, 04:26 PM
Everyone should be eligible to be drafted. And with that large of a draft pool, perhaps there are other places they could serve in addition to in the military.

yermom
3/12/2011, 04:27 PM
All males at 18 must register. There are no exemption policies in effect because no one's being drafted.

And for the record, exemptions suck. I agree with those who say that if we had a draft, and if anyone's son or daugher was subject to it, this nation would be much more measured in its use of military force. As it now stands, no one protests the ongoing wars because no one is compelled to go get shot at against their will.

That's not to say we shouldn't be in SWA. We should. We have too many national interests tied up there. But it just seems to me if we are going to continue to suck up dead dinosaurs from Arab-land, and our economy is dependent on same, everyone in the US ought to have skin in the game. Literally.

i'm sure the people that pull the strings to send us to war would also find way for their kids to not go

Okla-homey
3/12/2011, 04:29 PM
I'd have no problem with kids in school taking an exemption as long as after 4-5 years they serve their Country. After Serving they can do what ever they want. Should they decide to enlist and defer College they get better benefits. We'll always have plenty of smart folks with degrees that wish to make the Military their life for 10-20 years.

Just a thought...

Nevermind...I like your idea better.

Nope. We need them when they're 18. Young, dumb and trainable. There's plenty of time for college after service. And it's even paid-for by the GI Bill after they complete their period of service. Especially since nowadays, kids don't even get serious about being adults until after they're 25.

STUpendOUs
3/12/2011, 04:29 PM
i'm sure the people that pull the strings to send us to war would also find way for their kids to not go

http://cache.boston.com/news/galleries/politics/bush_guard/1.jpg

StoopTroup
3/12/2011, 04:33 PM
Nope. We need them when they're 18. Young, dumb and trainable. There's plenty of time for college after service. And it's even paid-for by the GI Bill after they complete their period of service. Especially since nowadays, kids don't even get serious about being adults until after they're 25.

Again...I re-read your post, thought about it and I agree

Okla-homey
3/12/2011, 04:34 PM
i'm sure the people that pull the strings to send us to war would also find way for their kids to not go

But the question presented was "what should the draft be like?" Like I said, exemptions suck. The only exemptions should be for retards and people with physical problems that would prevent service. E.g. diabetics, asthmatics, epileptics, addicts, the morbidly obese, etc.

StoopTroup
3/12/2011, 04:34 PM
I think we'd get a lot of new decent rap songs out this....

StoopTroup
3/12/2011, 04:36 PM
Also....MJ would be legal in Military Prison on Wednesdays from 1pm till dinner.

pphilfran
3/12/2011, 04:39 PM
But the question presented was "what should the draft be like?" Like I said, exemptions suck. The only exemptions should be for retards and people with physical problems that would prevent service. E.g. diabetics, asthmatics, epileptics, addicts, the morbidly obese, etc.

I wouldn't be so liberal with my exemptions...there are many places in service a diabetic or asthmatic could work and the morbidly obese wouldn't be so obese after service...:D

StoopTroup
3/12/2011, 04:41 PM
Master Sgt. Linsey Lohan - Has a nice ring to it

Okla-homey
3/12/2011, 04:45 PM
Master Sgt. Linsey Lohan - Has a nice ring to it

ST. that's offensive to senior NCO's. srsly.

That b1tch doesn't deserve the right to wear the stripes of an American non-commisioned officer. She's just a drug and alcohol addled sl*t.

StoopTroup
3/12/2011, 04:46 PM
ST. that's offensive to senior NCO's. srsly.

That b1tch doesn't deserve the right to wear the stripes of an American non-commisioned officer. She's just a drug and alcohol addled sl*t.

LMAO...I knew it would be. I'm sorry.....lol

StoopTroup
3/12/2011, 04:47 PM
Col. Bruce Willis?

3rdgensooner
3/12/2011, 05:16 PM
Everyone should be eligible to be drafted. And with that large of a draft pool, perhaps there are other places they could serve in addition to in the military.I agree with this.

And, on another note, a HS diploma has very little to do with screening out potential discipline problems.

SouthCarolinaSooner
3/12/2011, 06:03 PM
The Federal government has no power granted to it to conduct a draft, and should not do so. Its a coercive abuse of the government monopoly on violence.

StoopTroup
3/12/2011, 06:15 PM
The People can give it that power. I guess the Govt didn't have the power to make us all pay taxes either. Also....somehow I remember a whole bunch of People fleeing the Country in the 60's because of the fear of the Govt's power.

yermom
3/12/2011, 06:21 PM
But the question presented was "what should the draft be like?" Like I said, exemptions suck. The only exemptions should be for retards and people with physical problems that would prevent service. E.g. diabetics, asthmatics, epileptics, addicts, the morbidly obese, etc.

you can say it all you want, i just don't think it would happen.

if you want impressionable minds, why stop at 18? let's start at 5

OUthunder
3/12/2011, 07:05 PM
Hell, if W can make it thru, so can I.

Wait....

Whet
3/12/2011, 07:08 PM
I am a Selective Service Board Member - yes, they still have the Selective Service - and we undergo annual training.

sooner59
3/12/2011, 07:10 PM
Nope. We need them when they're 18. Young, dumb and trainable. There's plenty of time for college after service. And it's even paid-for by the GI Bill after they complete their period of service. Especially since nowadays, kids don't even get serious about being adults until after they're 25.

I can go with this. And you are right about most of them not being serious about adulthood until 25.

sooner59
3/12/2011, 07:12 PM
But the question presented was "what should the draft be like?" Like I said, exemptions suck. The only exemptions should be for retards and people with physical problems that would prevent service. E.g. diabetics, asthmatics, epileptics, addicts, the morbidly obese, etc.

Speaking as a person with asthma, they should still be able to be drafted. Just put them somewhere else if they are suitable for combat. There has to be something for them to do away from the front line.

sooner59
3/12/2011, 07:14 PM
I've actually been thinking about going the military route if I get into medical school. They pay for your 4 years of med school, you owe them 4 years as a military doctor after that. And you are automatically given "Captain" status.

My Opinion Matters
3/12/2011, 07:49 PM
You guys really haven't thought this through.

StoopTroup
3/12/2011, 07:57 PM
You guys really haven't thought this through.

Well duh.

SouthCarolinaSooner
3/12/2011, 08:45 PM
The People can give it that power. I guess the Govt didn't have the power to make us all pay taxes either. Also....somehow I remember a whole bunch of People fleeing the Country in the 60's because of the fear of the Govt's power.
Except...the power to tax is actually in the Constitution. Article I, Section 8, Clause 1

texaspokieokie
3/13/2011, 10:49 AM
Speaking as a person with asthma, they should still be able to be drafted. Just put them somewhere else if they are suitable for combat. There has to be something for them to do away from the front line.

agree with that.

was in OANG & moved to CA. CANG wouldn't accept me because i had (have) asthma. that made me very happy.

i just wonder why the OANG accepted me??

they told me some people just cough more than others. they gave me a huge jar of pills that were a generic form of my presciption pills. this was when we
were on active duty for a year. (in tulsa)

SouthCarolinaSooner
3/13/2011, 11:17 AM
You can't exclude high school dropouts...

They have a chance to make something of themselves in the armed forces...out on the streets without a GED and they will be sucking the Fed tit for their entire life...
They'd still be sucking the Fed tit their entire life, and a more expensive tit at that.

Okla-homey
3/13/2011, 04:28 PM
Except...the power to tax is actually in the Constitution. Article I, Section 8, Clause 1

So is Congresses power to "raise armies and maintain a navy."

There is a ton of case law that holds that inherent in that power to "raise armies and maintain a navy," is the power to draft people.

StoopTroup
3/13/2011, 04:30 PM
:pop:

SouthCarolinaSooner
3/13/2011, 04:32 PM
So is Congresses power to "raise armies and maintain a navy."

There is a ton of case law that holds that inherent in that power to "raise armies and maintain a navy," is the power to draft people.
Constitution also allows Congress to "promote the general welfare", do you want that phrase to be interpreted so loosely as the above statement? Strict constructionist view certainly does not allow a draft via the above statement, because draft is not expressly mentioned.

Okla-homey
3/13/2011, 04:32 PM
I agree with this.

And, on another note, a HS diploma has very little to do with screening out potential discipline problems.

I disagree. The odds that a kid of today who drops out of high school will be a chronic loser and will end up causing and/or being in trouble are pretty high.

Okla-homey
3/13/2011, 04:42 PM
Constitution also allows Congress to "promote the general welfare", do you want that phrase to be interpreted so loosely as the above statement? Strict constructionist view certainly does not allow a draft via the above statement, because draft is not expressly mentioned.

Please don't start with the "strict constructionism." While I agree the "necessary and proper" and "interstate commerce" clauses have been stretched until they are FUBAR, it is the height of silliness to argue that a military draft is unconstitutional. HTF is Congress supposed to "raise an army" in a military emergency if it is powerless to draft people?

The first national drafts occurred during the Civil War, with both the North and South drafting men to fight. And that was a very long time before the FDR administration when just about anything was declared constitutional if there was a nexus with "interstate commerce." The drafts were unpopular, and some violent antidraft riots occurred. Nevertheless, the draft prompted some to enlist when they otherwise would not have.

SouthCarolinaSooner
3/13/2011, 04:47 PM
Please don't start with the "strict constructionism." While I agree the "necessary and proper" and "interstate commerce" clauses have been stretched until they are FUBAR, it is the height of silliness to argue that a military draft is unconstitutional. HTF is Congress supposed to "raise an army" in a military emergency if it is powerless to draft people?

The first national drafts occurred during the Civil War, with both the North and South drafting men to fight. And that was a very long time before the FDR administration when just about anything was declared constitutional if there was a nexus with "interstate commerce." The drafts were unpopular, and some violent antidraft riots occurred. Nevertheless, the draft prompted some to enlist when they otherwise would not have.
No, it really isn't, they can raise any army by funding those who enlist. Involuntary servitude is unconstitutional and more often than not, creates a subpar fighting force.

royalfan5
3/13/2011, 04:47 PM
As a tax payer this strikes me as hugely expensive.

StoopTroup
3/13/2011, 04:59 PM
As a tax payer this strikes me as hugely expensive.

With the use of the National Guard to back up our Forces in Iraq and Afghanastan and around the World, we outsourced jobs to Blackwater and many others instead of having a Draft. We can speculate as to what is cheaper I guess but what happens once you run out of money or people you can trust to get the job done without the risk of losing or weakening your Military to a point they are unable to defend themselves unless you begin to use your nuclear capabilites to get control? At that point...have you created armageddon because you didn't spend the dough to build up your Country's Military because of "Strict Conservationist" ideals?

Each of them have consequences. I like the idea that this Country brought about Freedom and Liberty via spilling their own blood and because people realized the alternative was to serve as subjects to Kings and Queens or worse....

We've seen what a Nuclear Standoff looks like.

BTW....the Romans outsourced their Military too so they could sit around and have slaves peel them a grape.

3rdgensooner
3/13/2011, 05:08 PM
I disagree. The odds that a kid of today who drops out of high school will be a chronic loser and will end up causing and/or being in trouble are pretty high.Actually, the Army Research Institute has improved the success rates of high school drop outs considerably through using more specific screening techniques with that cohort.

Okla-homey
3/13/2011, 05:31 PM
No, it really isn't, they can raise any army by funding those who enlist. Involuntary servitude is unconstitutional and more often than not, creates a subpar fighting force.

Ok. Let's assume for a moment, we are involved in another world war, fighting on several fronts. And let's also assume that even after federalizing the national guard and activating all reservists, we're still several hundred thousand short of dudes. And in addition to a critical shortage of trigger-pullers, we don't have nearly enough doctors, scientists and engineers. You know, like in 1942.

Now, are you saying that if we just paid recruits enough, we wouldn't have a problem and could skip the draft?

Okla-homey
3/13/2011, 05:34 PM
Actually, the Army Research Institute has improved the success rates of high school drop outs considerably through using more specific screening techniques with that cohort.

I dunno. I do know there is no data for the USAF or USN because they haven't accepted non-HS grads for decades.

StoopTroup
3/13/2011, 05:43 PM
Maybe screening would work but it doesn't really make our Country better...it makes the Army better. If I'm getting your point that is?

We are trying to give kids incentive to get a HS Diploma and reduce the amount of losers who the Army has to test. Really...in all of this....once a kid gets his diploma...it doesn't mean he still isn't a loser...it just means once in the military we can train him/her even more than HS did and give him the ability to serve his Country proudly, receive help to pay for further Education once he/she is out and avoid Military Prison.

yermom
3/13/2011, 05:49 PM
how about you either graduate high school, or you go to the Army ;)

SouthCarolinaSooner
3/13/2011, 05:59 PM
With the use of the National Guard to back up our Forces in Iraq and Afghanastan and around the World, we outsourced jobs to Blackwater and many others instead of having a Draft. We can speculate as to what is cheaper I guess but what happens once you run out of money or people you can trust to get the job done without the risk of losing or weakening your Military to a point they are unable to defend themselves unless you begin to use your nuclear capabilites to get control? At that point...have you created armageddon because you didn't spend the dough to build up your Country's Military because of "Strict Conservationist" ideals?

Each of them have consequences. I like the idea that this Country brought about Freedom and Liberty via spilling their own blood and because people realized the alternative was to serve as subjects to Kings and Queens or worse....

We've seen what a Nuclear Standoff looks like.

BTW....the Romans outsourced their Military too so they could sit around and have slaves peel them a grape.
We never should and hopefully never will use nuclear weapons again, and their mere presence has deterred such a manpower crunch as you've described. Thats such a ridiculous scenario...


Ok. Let's assume for a moment, we are involved in another world war, fighting on several fronts. And let's also assume that even after federalizing the national guard and activating all reservists, we're still several hundred thousand short of dudes. And in addition to a critical shortage of trigger-pullers, we don't have nearly enough doctors, scientists and engineers. You know, like in 1942.

Now, are you saying that if we just paid recruits enough, we wouldn't have a problem and could skip the draft?
I was under the impression the draft used in WW2 was to balance the workforce and army so there were enough people left to work. I could be wrong though, any reading for me?

StoopTroup
3/13/2011, 06:08 PM
We never should and hopefully never will use nuclear weapons again, and their mere presence has deterred such a manpower crunch as you've described. Thats such a ridiculous scenario...


I was under the impression the draft used in WW2 was to balance the workforce and army so there were enough people left to work. I could be wrong though, any reading for me?

That view of your's is because you want it a certain way.

That's not what this thread is about.

I'll explain it to you once more....well maybe 100....lol

It's about...."If we had to call for a draft, what are your ideas to make it work?"

SouthCarolinaSooner
3/13/2011, 06:15 PM
It's about...."If we had to call for a draft, what are your ideas to make it work?"
Not have it :P

StoopTroup
3/13/2011, 06:16 PM
Not have it :P

Not a choice.

Now....bugger off jacker

NSFW
wOtLbwjKhOg

SouthCarolinaSooner
3/13/2011, 06:46 PM
Not a choice.

Now....bugger off jacker

NSFW
wOtLbwjKhOg
Well, if we had to have a draft, movie stars with combat experience (Tom Hanks) should start training as COs, then maybe for your cannon fodder you could bring in your Justin Biebers and Lady GaGa's. Call it the 107th "Tiger Blood" Division commanded by Major General Charlie Sheen.

StoopTroup
3/13/2011, 06:56 PM
Well, if we had to have a draft, movie stars with combat experience (Tom Hanks) should start training as COs, then maybe for your cannon fodder you could bring in your Justin Biebers and Lady GaGa's. Call it the 107th "Tiger Blood" Division commanded by Major General Charlie Sheen.

Those guys are to old. They'd need to enlist.

Think about the Senator or Gov. or House Rep who votes for War knowing his Son or Daughter might go. Really changes things. I can cover the use of influence to give "Safe Jobs" to those with kids in the Military too. Give that a little thought once you've stepped into the World of "You don't have a choice". :D

SouthCarolinaSooner
3/13/2011, 06:57 PM
Those guys are to old. They'd need to enlist.


Not if the draft went my way ;)

StoopTroup
3/13/2011, 06:58 PM
Not if the draft went my way ;)

That is a thread you can go start

SouthCarolinaSooner
3/13/2011, 07:00 PM
That is a thread you can go start




It's about...."If we had to call for a draft, what are your ideas to make it work?"
These are my ideas

SunnySooner
3/13/2011, 07:20 PM
What I've read in military newspapers is that we will never have another draft, for several reasons. Among them, the type of wars fought in this day and age--small, highly trained patrols in urban combat situations with small groups of insurgents. The days of wars involving thousands of troops shooting at each other are almost definitely gone. That is the type of war that needs an 18 year old with 6 weeks boot camp. That kid wouldn't be much good in most of today's combat situations.

Along those lines, the technology used to fight these days is fancy enough that it takes a decent brain/aptitude/extensive training to be successful in combat, again leaving out our snot-nosed buddy.

Instead of a draft, I'm much more into mandatory national service corps, putting aimless HS grads in situations they might never otherwise be in, tutoring kids, soup kitchens, etc. An instant army of "volunteers" would be a huge boon for a lot of different folks, pay em a small stipend and then money for college or something like that. And it wouldn't be full time, so they could still work parttime or whatever. Lots of ways to work it. It would also give kids time and experience to figure out life a little more before starting school.

SunnySooner
3/13/2011, 07:24 PM
Oh and off the top of my head, I can think of a few congressmembers' kids who have pulled tours in Iraq, among them Joe Biden and John McCain. General Odierno's son actually lost an arm to an IED. So sometimes, bigwig's kids step up as well.

StoopTroup
3/13/2011, 07:42 PM
You missed the point Sunny. This is a Dramatization of what would a Draft look like if we needed one. Instead of waiting around to see what our Senator, Gov., Prez or Rep thinks it should look like...What would the draft look like if all of us designed it?

StoopTroup
3/13/2011, 07:43 PM
Oh and off the top of my head, I can think of a few congressmembers' kids who have pulled tours in Iraq, among them Joe Biden and John McCain. General Odierno's son actually lost an arm to an IED. So sometimes, bigwig's kids step up as well.

Sometimes....sometimes they don't....in Our World...They all would.

SunnySooner
3/13/2011, 09:23 PM
Aha. Well, I guess I was trying to say it's never gonna happen, so how about the service corps thingy instead.

StoopTroup
3/13/2011, 09:27 PM
Aha. Well, I guess I was trying to say it's never gonna happen, so how about the service corps thingy instead.

I understand.

If you read back through...we even had some folks who began to argue Constitutional Law about it with Homey.

SoonerKnight
3/13/2011, 09:56 PM
Completely agree, EVERYONE has to serve. If you have a physical disability, you can help your country in many other ways. But at the same time, if you look at WW2, women were instrumental in manufacturing while the War Machine was at work. Then again we do outsource everything now so it wouldn't be a problem right?

But back to the physical disability thing, obviously there are scenarios where people would be unable to serve, but I would hope that the majority of American's would want to serve their country in some capacity. But then again, I have no desire to join the military. Contradictions galore!



This sarcasm? Everyone should serve. I don't care if you lack a college degree, infantry needs people as well. And besides, I have a college degree (received it in the mail last week actually), and it's not doing a whole lot for me right now. But Okla-homey are you suggesting we institute the same policy as Israel? Mandatory service at 18? In this scenario of course.

No problem we could do it again. I watched a speacial on 60 minutes about the fact that the government has a manufacturing plant to make computer chips for our nuclear arsenal. The reason no computer chip companies left in the United States. We don't outsource our tanks or planes or ships. We would do just fine. Remember in WWII all our car companies were ordered to produce tanks rather than cars. If we had to go to war like WWII then we could handle it.

Now after 9/11 I expected two things:

1. A draft to fill our armed forces so that we could take care of the threat quickly.

2. Raise taxes to pay for the War!

StoopTroup
3/21/2011, 10:57 PM
.