Are you telling me that this sucker is nuclear?

[sappstuf]

I think the Japan nuclear reactor situation needs a thread..

Here is the latest and it isn't pretty.


Officials are now considering releasing some radiation to relieve pressure in the containment at the Daiichi plant and are also considering releasing pressure at Daini, signs that difficulties are mounting. Such a release has only occurred once in U.S. history, at Three Mile Island.

“(It’s) a sign that the Japanese are pulling out all the stops they can to prevent this accident from developing into a core melt and also prevent it from causing a breach of the containment (system) from the pressure that is building up inside the core because of excess heat,” said Mark Hibbs, a nuclear expert at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

While the restoration of power through additional generators should allow TEPCO to bring the situation back under control, left unchecked the coolant could boil off within hours. That would cause the core to overheat and damage the fuel, according to nuclear experts familiar with the Three Mile Island accident in Pennsylvania in 1979.

It could take hours more for the metal surrounding the ceramic uranium fuel pellets in the fuel rods to melt, which is what happened at Three Mile Island.

And


U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said the U.S. Air Force is assisting in flying in backup generators, and Japanese ground forces are also trucking generators and batteries to the site, according to media reports. Time is critical, according to experts. Once power to the cooling supply is interrupted, all the coolant could boil off in as little as an hour, Kamps said.

If there is a meltdown at Fukushima, “the containment building is the last line of defense,” Kamps added. The reactor is 40 years old and the original ventilation system had to be retrofitted to allow radioactive gasses to be vented so that pressure would not build up and cause an explosion that would spread radioactivity over a much wider area.

[StoopTroup]

I guess Generators could be assets

[MR2-Sooner86]

No no no this sucker is electrical, but I need a nuclear reaction to generate the 1.21 jigawatts of electricity.

[yermom]

i know i'd love one of those in my back yard...

[StoopTroup]

Wonder if this is what we are sending over?

PNy7OxYEM0U

[StoopTroup]

I know there is/or was a place in Broken Arrow that made these Generators that were powered with small jet engines on a Semi Flatbed Trailer. Took a Tour through there once. It was pretty nice equipment. Don't remember what they generated but I remember them saying it was enough for a small town.

[Lott's Bandana]

My 1960's era atomic submarines had friggin diesel generators...as did my 1990's era SSN.

FCOL

[yermom]

i was thinking an aircraft carrier would do it

probably take a while to get there though

[SoCaliSooner]

Japs and nuclear radiation go hand in vaporized hand...

[StoopTroup]

Mmmmmmm....calloused humor.

[Blue]

This is becoming news....Me no likey.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/11/japan.nuclear/index.html

[sooner59]

They are saying meltdown is highly likely at this point.

[StoopTroup]

Just a 3 mile Island if the Safety Features don't work?

[Blue]

Uh Oh...Explosion...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/8377506/Japan-earthquake-nuclear-disaster-feared-after-power-plant-explosion.html

[Flagstaffsooner]

More like OH FUK!

[soonerhubs]

This poor country can't catch a break.

[Okla-homey]

This poor country can't catch a break.

Massive earthquakes, tsunami, now a nuclear meltdown.

Well, at least they have experience in rebuilding their country.

[soonerhubs]

Massive earthquakes, tsunami, now a nuclear meltdown.

Well, at least they have experience in rebuilding their country.

This is true.

[StoopTroup]

One nuclear plant has exploded and another is damaged they are saying now. Time to send in our man Flint.

http://www.space-debris.com/spy_coburn_Flint_M.jpg

[StoopTroup]

Damn. He's dead. They are screwed.

[Curly Bill]

i was thinking an aircraft carrier would do it

probably take a while to get there though

Not familiar with current military policy, but we used to have one permanently stationed in Japan. Not that it was just sitting in port all the time mind you, but it was usually close.

[StoopTroup]

Jason Bourne? Jack Ryan? The incredible Hulk?

Who do we have left?

[StoopTroup]

Not familiar with current military policy, but we used to have one permanently stationed in Japan. Not that it was just sitting in port all the time mind you, but it was usually close.

It looks like the damn plant assploded Curly. Will a carrier still help?

What else?

Maybe just nuke it and the one explosion will counter the other and just leave a nice new fishing harbor?

[Curly Bill]

It looks like the damn plant assploded Curly. Will a carrier still help?

What else?

Maybe just nuke it and the one explosion will counter the other and just leave a nice new fishing harbor?


Naw I wouldn't think so, I was just saying we used to keep one there more or less permanent-like.

I just know I'm glad I'm no longer stationed 150 miles up the coast from this thing. :D

[StoopTroup]

Naw I wouldn't think so, I was just saying we used to keep one there more or less permanent-like.

I just know I'm glad I'm no longer stationed 150 miles up the coast from this thing. :D

I understand. I bet you are lol.

Who can Hillary send now?

Fantastic Four? Batman?

[Curly Bill]

The posse! :D

We could pour beer on it.

...but then that would be wasteful.

[AlbqSooner]

The posse! :D

We could pour beer on it.

...but then that would be wasteful.

I bear no ill will toward the Japanese. I would walk across the street to pizz in their reactor.:)

[StoopTroup]

Calvin?

http://www.adrants.com/images/Calvin%20Peeing%20decal.png

[Curly Bill]

I bear no ill will toward the Japanese. I would walk across the street to pizz in their reactor.:)

There ya go! We could drink the beer, and then wizz on the reactor. Brilliant!! :D

[StoopTroup]

When that thing assploded I wonder if everyone's rad badges went nuts.

[StoopTroup]

Thailand sent $165,000 in aid to Japan. That's probably enough. WTG! Thailand!

[Curly Bill]

One of the cable news dealios this morning was telling how ya could text a number and have $10 go to Japan relief efforts. I mean really? Japan is not some third world backwater, that needs a $10 handout from little ole me.

[Breadburner]

Send in the Clowns......

[sappstuf]

Thailand sent $165,000 in aid to Japan. That's probably enough. WTG! Thailand!

That is about 5,500 "long times"....

[StoopTroup]

All those shoes that were washed out to sea and where is Nike when they really need them?

[StoopTroup]

Is God smiting them for kareoke?

[sappstuf]

Japan to fill leaking nuke reactor with sea water

TOKYO, March 12 (Reuters) - Tokyo Electric Power Co plans to fill a leaking reactor at the Fukushima Daiichi power plant with sea water to cool it down and reduce pressure in the unit, Japan's top government spokesman said on Saturday.

"The nuclear reactor is surrounded by a steel reactor container, which is then surrounded by a concrete building," Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said.

"The concrete building collapsed. We found out that the reactor container inside didn't explode."

Japan earlier in the day warned of a meltdown at the reactor at the plant, damaged when a massive earthquake and tsunami struck the northeast coast, but said the risk of radiation contamination was small.

"We've confirmed that the reactor container was not damaged. The explosion didn't occur inside the reactor container. As such there was no large amount of radiation leakage outside," he said.

"At this point, there has been no major change to the level of radiation leakage outside (from before and after the explosion), so we'd like everyone to respond calmly," Edano said.

"We've decided to fill the reactor container with sea water. Trade minister Kaieda has instructed us to do so. By doing this, we will use boric acid to prevent criticality."

Edano said it would take about five to 10 hours to fill the reactor core with sea water and around 10 days to complete the process.

Edano said due to the falling level of cooling water, hydrogen was generated and that leaked to the space between the building and the container and the explosion happened when the hydrogen mixed with oxygen there.

http://af.reuters.com/article/energyOilNews/idAFTKZ00680620110312

[StoopTroup]

Reports now saying a town named Miyagi has 9500 missing. A part of me yesterday was wondering just how good Japan's early warning system was and hoped that most people were able to get out....but logic and watching some of that video also had me thinking that there is no way that many folks can get out that quick and that the loss of life there was massive.

I know we all handle these things differently. Some with callous humor and others with legitimate concern and even many don't GAS about it at all because of their own feeling about Japan.

I think I like to think we could depend on other Countries when such natural tragedies happen but even though it seems we get no or very little help when it does...I think the general consensus Worldwide is our attitude. We can do anything. People have a tendency to get out of our business quick when we start to mobilize. Amazingly Japan also has a bit of this attitude but this time I think they are realizing it's a lot more than they can handle to help people reach food and supplies for basic necessities. I'm sure they'll handle this long term but at the loss of how much more life. We've got a lot of our own over there and a good number of folks have business interests that look to be affected for some time to come.

Whatever your view....I think we could all take a moment to say a kind word or prayer if that's your thing for the kids who were lost or are looking for Parents that won't return.

[jkjsooner]

"We've decided to fill the reactor container with sea water. Trade minister Kaieda has instructed us to do so. By doing this, we will use boric acid to prevent criticality."


What does this mean? When they say criticality are they talking about the nuclear reaction or just keeping the heat from reaching a critical stage. The reason I ask is because I was assuming the control rods are fully inserted and there is no sustainable chain reaction going on.

[Jerk]

Not familiar with current military policy, but we used to have one permanently stationed in Japan. Not that it was just sitting in port all the time mind you, but it was usually close.

I think the USS Ronald Reagan is there.

[StoopTroup]

I think the USS Ronald Reagan is there.

Definitely heard they were close and on the way.

[afs]

Massive Earthquake, leaking radiation, the only logical next event:

http://ramascreen.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/godzilla.jpg

[StoopTroup]

Can't Mothra fan the fallout into outer space?

[Mixer!]

Jason Bourne? Jack Ryan? The incredible Hulk?

Who do we have left?


Who can Hillary send now?

Fantastic Four? Batman?


http://files.dailycontributor.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/jack-bauer-24-movie.jpg

[StoopTroup]

We are all saved!

[StoopTroup]

One thing though...there is this one apt they keep showing and every time they restock all the stuff around his computer station/posting area...another quake hits and they have to do it again and again.

I really feel sorry for them.

[Harry Beanbag]

I think the USS Ronald Reagan is there.


The George Washington is stationed in Yokosuka, just south of Tokyo. We've had carriers based there for a long time, but this is the first nuclear powered one there. Reagan just left for WESTPAC a month ago so should also be in the vicinity.

[StoopTroup]

Retired Military I forget his name is on CNN. Says Reagan is around two hours out from being able to fly planes to the mainland

[Harry Beanbag]

My 1960's era atomic submarines had friggin diesel generators...as did my 1990's era SSN.

FCOL


We had two locomotive diesel engines for emergency power on my cruiser.

[Harry Beanbag]

Retired Military I forget his name is on CNN. Says Reagan is around two hours out from being able to fly planes to the mainland


http://rlv.zcache.com/doolittle_raid_uss_hornet_b_25_mitchell_bomber_pos ter-p228621297034139840tdcp_400.jpg


:)

[StoopTroup]

RELEASE THE KRAKEN!

http://www.whiskeyandbeans.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/kraken-clash-of-the-titans.jpg

[StoopTroup]

These are Dark Times...there's no denying it. Our World has faced no greater threat than it does today....it's really you that worked....we really don't stand a chance.....we can end this.....

So get going Mr. Potter!

http://i2.cdnds.net/10/26/movies_harry_potter_deathly_hallows_01.jpg

[Lott's Bandana]

What does this mean? When they say criticality are they talking about the nuclear reaction or just keeping the heat from reaching a critical stage. The reason I ask is because I was assuming the control rods are fully inserted and there is no sustainable chain reaction going on.


Typically distilled water is used to cool the primary loop in a reactor. Using seawater introduces all kinds of reactive contaminants and frankly, salt to the equation...not something that is even remotely desired.

I believe the boric acid equalizes some of the incompatibility of seawater, but this reactor is going to be toast.

[Jerk]

They might have to start dumping an *** load of concrete on it like the Russians did after Chernobyl detonated.

[jumperstop]

They might have to start dumping an *** load of concrete on it like the Russians did after Chernobyl detonated.

The russians did pretty much everything wrong in that disaster. Don't take any advice from them, unless it's what not to do.

[Jerk]

The russians did pretty much everything wrong in that disaster. Don't take any advice from them, unless it's what not to do.

LOL ok good advice.

[StoopTroup]

Mmmmmmm.....a concrete patty melt.....yummy

[OUthunder]

These are Dark Times...there's no denying it. Our World has faced no greater threat than it does today....it's really you that worked....we really don't stand a chance.....we can end this.....

So get going Mr. Potter!

http://i2.cdnds.net/10/26/movies_harry_potter_deathly_hallows_01.jpg

Dean nip.

[Harry Beanbag]

Typically distilled water is used to cool the primary loop in a reactor. Using seawater introduces all kinds of reactive contaminants and frankly, salt to the equation...not something that is even remotely desired.

I believe the boric acid equalizes some of the incompatibility of seawater, but this reactor is going to be toast.


It's actually deionized water that is used as primary coolant. Boric acid is used as a "poison", meaning it will slow down the rate of fission. I believe they are probably just trying to kill the fuel rods as much as they can. You're right, after filling it with seawater, the thing will be a huge, really expensive and hazardous piece of garbage.

[StoopTroup]

Wonder if Barry is having a nice refreshing smoke right now?

http://www.opednews.com/populum/uploaded/obama_youth_04-16815-20090906-20.jpg

[Blue]

Another reactor blows up...

pIZKlaEZMLY

[StoopTroup]

That looks bad....it blew chunks

[HBick]

I'm going to be pissed if a natural disaster wipes me out. I'm American dammit! I expect a goofy looking martian to kill me point blank, or a terrorist to get me.

I will not bow to something such as an earthquake, or more likely, where I live, a tornado.

Sarcasm over. Go about your lives people.

[pphilfran]

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/03/14/explosion-heard-at-japan-nuclear-plant/?icid=maing|main5|dl1|sec1_lnk2|50023

Dangerous levels of radiation leaking from a crippled nuclear plant forced Japan to order 140,000 people to seal themselves indoors Tuesday after an explosion and a fire dramatically escalated the 4-day-old crisis spawned by a deadly tsunami.

In a nationally televised statement, Prime Minister Naoto Kan said radiation has spread from four reactors of the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear plant in Fukushima state, one of the hardest-hit in Friday's 9.0-magnitude earthquake and the ensuing tsunami that has killed more than 10,000 people, plunged millions into misery and pummeled the world's third-largest economy.

The International Atomic Energy Agency said Tuesday that Japanese officials told it that the reactor fire was in the storage pond - a pool where used nuclear fuel is kept cool - and that "radioactivity is being released directly into the atmosphere."

Kan and other officials warned there is danger of more leaks and told people living within 19 miles (30 kilometers) of the Fukushima Dai-ichi complex to stay indoors to avoid exposure that could make people sick.

"Please do not go outside. Please stay indoors. Please close windows and make your homes airtight," Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano told residents in the danger zone.

"These are figures that potentially affect health. There is no mistake about that," he said.

"Right now it's worse than Three Mile Island," Olander said. But it's nowhere near the levels released during Chernobyl.

[King Barry's Back]

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/03/14/explosion-heard-at-japan-nuclear-plant/?icid=maing|main5|dl1|sec1_lnk2|50023
Prime Minister Naoto Kan said radiation has spread from four reactors of the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear plant in Fukushima state.

Can you believe radiation is leaking from all four reactors? One of those reactors, No 4, was completely shut down at the time of the earthquake and until now has been considered completely safe.

Folks, this story is about to turn bad. Think about the earthquake, tsunami, all that video of normal people watching everything they ever owned being washed into the sea, think about explosions at all four reactors at that plant -- and imagine what it means when that only now the story is "about to turn bad."

[StoopTroup]

Everybody run for your lives!

[Lott's Bandana]

It's actually deionized water that is used as primary coolant. Boric acid is used as a "poison", meaning it will slow down the rate of fission. I believe they are probably just trying to kill the fuel rods as much as they can. You're right, after filling it with seawater, the thing will be a huge, really expensive and hazardous piece of garbage.


Deionized, yeah that's the word.

I spent all of my time in the front of the boat.

:P

[Blue]

DOH! They sent everyone home?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_japan_earthquake

[StoopTroup]

Here's a pic of the plant on better days...

http://www.kerala365.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/japan-Fukushima-nuclear-plant-emergency.jpg

[Blue]

Apparently they are back, but it seems that "pouring water on it" is like putting a bandaid on a bullet wound.

[StoopTroup]

Now....

http://newshour.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/2011/03/15/japan_earthquaketsu_fukushima_daiichi_march14_2011 _dg_blog_main_horizontal.jpg

[OUMallen]

That looks bad....it blew chunks

And Chunks is the DOG! :texan:

[sappstuf]

Europe's energy chief warned on Wednesday of a further catastrophe at Japan's nuclear site in the coming hours but his spokeswoman said he had no specific or privileged information on the situation.

"In the coming hours there could be further catastrophic events, which could pose a threat to the lives of people on the island," Guenther Oettinger told the European Parliament.

"There is as yet no panic, but Tokyo with 35 million people, is the largest metropolis in the world," he said.

When asked, his spokeswoman said his prediction of a catastrophe in the hours ahead was not based on any specific privileged information.

He said the nuclear site was "effectively out of control

"The cooling systems did not work, and as a result we are somewhere between a disaster and a major disaster," he said

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/16/us-eu-nuclear-idUSTRE72F5ND20110316

[sappstuf]

Japan scrambles to pull nuclear plant back from brink

Japan's nuclear crisis appeared to be spinning out of control on Wednesday after workers withdrew briefly from a stricken power plant because of surging radiation levels and a helicopter failed to drop water on the most troubled reactor.

In a sign of desperation, the police will try to cool spent nuclear fuel at one of the facility's reactors with water cannon, normally used to quell riots.
Early in the day, another fire broke out at the earthquake-crippled facility, which has sent low levels of radiation wafting into Tokyo in the past 24 hours, triggering fear in the capital and international alarm.

Japan's government said radiation levels outside the plant's gates were stable but, in a sign of being overwhelmed, appealed to private companies to help deliver supplies to tens of thousands of people evacuated from around the complex.

"People would not be in immediate danger if they went outside with these levels. I want people to understand this," Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano told a televised news conference, referring to people living outside a 30-km (18-mile) exclusion zone. Some 140,000 people inside the zone have been told to stay indoors.

Workers were trying to clear debris to build a road so fire trucks could reach reactor No. 4 at the Daiichi complex in Fukushima, 240 km (150 miles) north of Tokyo. Flames were no longer visible at the building housing the reactor.

High radiation levels prevented a helicopter from flying to the site to drop water into the No. 3 reactor to try to cool its fuel rods. The unit's roof was damaged by an earlier explosion and steam was seen rising there earlier in the day.

The plant operator described No. 3 as the "priority." No more information was available, but that reactor is the only one at Daiichi which uses plutonium in its fuel mix.

Plutonium is very toxic to humans and, once absorbed in the bloodstream, can linger for years in bone marrow or liver and can lead to cancer.

I'm glad we don't keep spent fuel rods onsite in the United States where something like this could happen. I'm sure Obama supports such common sense measures.

Oh wait...


All funding for development of the (Yucca Mountain) facility would be eliminated, such as further land acquisition, transportation access and additional engineering," the administration's fiscal 2010 energy budget request states.

The Obama administration requested $197 million to shutter the project and "explore alternatives" for handling the nation's nuclear waste.

Oh well.. Surely we don't have THAT many site holding spent fuel rods...


There are now 121 sites in 39 U.S. states that hold high-level radioactive waste and spent nuclear fuel on an interim basis, according to Reuters.

Right now, we estimate there are 60,000 tons of spent nuclear fuel stored beside U.S. nuclear reactors.

Well crap.. At least we are better prepared to keep these spent fuel rods cool if some kind of major disaster hit.


Nuclear Regulatory Commission research found that some plants only had a four-hour battery backup.

We're boned...

[SoCaliSooner]

I'm glad we don't keep spent fuel rods onsite in the United States where something like this could happen. I'm sure Obama supports such common sense measures.



The reactors withstood a 9.0 earthquake, which undermines some of the environmentalist jibba jabba about not building any in California. Had there not been a tsunami, those plants would have been fine...

[Ike]

Now....

http://newshour.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/2011/03/15/japan_earthquaketsu_fukushima_daiichi_march14_2011 _dg_blog_main_horizontal.jpg

and now
http://delong.typepad.com/.a/6a00e551f080038834014e86c14644970d-pi

[VeeJay]

Sushi is taking a hit.

[jkjsooner]

The reactors withstood a 9.0 earthquake, which undermines some of the environmentalist jibba jabba about not building any in California. Had there not been a tsunami, those plants would have been fine...

1. I don't know where the plants are in California but tsunamis can happen in California.
2. Who really thought of a tsunami as the cause of the next major meltdown? The fact is that nuclear power plants are a source of danger and we can't predict everything that can possibly go wrong. That's not to say we shouldn't have them but we damn well better respect their potential and not belittle those who point out the dangers.

[OULenexaman]

dumping water from choppers on them now cannot be a good sign....looks like a last ditch effort to me.

[hawaii 5-0]

I don't think Nuclear Power plants in America should be regulated at all. The government shouldn't stick their nose where it doesn't belong.

Surely the owners of the plants and their shareholders know much more about what need to be inspected and regulated.

Obama and the government should just butt out and let the fat cats try to earn an honest buck.

5-0

[Blue]

I don't think Nuclear Power plants in America should be regulated at all. The government shouldn't stick their nose where it doesn't belong.

Surely the owners of the plants and their shareholders know much more about what need to be inspected and regulated.

Obama and the government should just butt out and let the fat cats try to earn an honest buck.

5-0

I don't think the issue is "Should govt regulate nuclear power" rather "should we have nuclear power." The govt couldn't do anything about this type of thing. Rather they'd probably build ****tier plants to the lowest bidder.

Where do liberals get off thinking the govt can solve every problem?

[StoopTroup]

What is interesting is it's been a few days now and the 24 hour news folks are running out of things they want to cover....

Gal a minute ago had this Nuclear Expert on and as he was talking...she was going "UmmmmmHummmm.....UmmmmmHummmm.....UmmmmmHummmm" Like she wasn't even listening to him. Funny how if they can't make themselves a name for BREAKING NEWS! they just sit there filling in for the folks their Bosses sent to Japan and wait for them to report something.

Now....

It's a nice human interest piece on Greg Louganis. Yes...he's still alive and says he's really shy.:rolleyes:

[hawaii 5-0]

The radiation heads to Hawaii and the West Coast. Nope. No problemo. Nuclear power is totally safe.


I'm just hedging my bets here in Hawaii. I opened up a can of biscuits and put them out on the sidewalk. They're just now starting to brown on top.

I just love biscuits with butter and jelly.


5-0

[pphilfran]

The radiation heads to Hawaii and the West Coast. Nope. No problemo. Nuclear power is totally safe.


I'm just hedging my bets here in Hawaii. I opened up a can of biscuits and put them out on the sidewalk. They're just now starting to brown on top.

I just love biscuits with butter and jelly.


5-0

Future generations will be more efficient with three arms and 21 fingers...

[hawaii 5-0]

At least they have some water pumps on the buildings now.

It beats the spitting helicopters.


5-0

[aurorasooner]

half of the country uses power whose current alternates at 60 Hz, while the other half gets its power at 50 Hz.
The discrepancy has to do with the founding of electric power in the country. Tokyo Electric Light Co. used German generators, which operated at 50 Hz, while in the west part of Japan, Osaka Electric Lamp Co. used generators from General Electric, an American company, operating at the same 60 Hz standard that is used in the United States to this day.

Unlike the U.S. grid, the Japanese power grid was never unified on a single standard. While it’s possible to connect the two grids, the frequency-changing stations required can only handle up to 1 gigawatt.
http://www.redstaplerchronicles.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/DocBrown.jpg
http://www.itworld.com/business/140626/legacy-1800s-leaves-tokyo-facing-blackouts
Another interesting quote.
Shiro Ogawa, 75, a now-retired engineer with Toshiba, watched the developments play out with a note of sadness and regret. Ogawa said he had never questioned the earthquake design standards of the reactors and never questioned the durability of back-up power plans. He never thought about a tsunami big enough to take out the generators like last week's wave of 10 meters or more.

"We had almost no experience in Japan with nuclear power at the time," Ogawa told reporters. "It's a terrible thing to say, but we were ignorant. We didn't think that we were in a position to judge the standards we were given. We were close to being ignorant." I keep reading that our Nuc Generating plant between LA & San Diego will never experience a tsunami as big as the one that hit Japan (no subduction zone faults). I was just wondering if its BU pumps and its aux power supply are protected better? The one between San Francisco and LA is supposedly built on a high bluff way above sea level and supposedly has some large fresh water reservoirs to supply it in a catastrophe. I think most of south Cali gets its fresh water (in real time supply/demand) from the Co. River, the LA, & the Calif Aqueducts and I don't think they have any large water storage reservoirs close to that plant. I don't really know, though.

[StoopTroup]

.

[hawaii 5-0]

My side of Oahu was spared.


I'm around 23 feet above sea level.


5-0

[MR2-Sooner86]

Fear of the masses. How many people died at Three Mile Island? None. I'm laughing at all the people thinking they're going to be glowing in the dark on the West Coast.

The fact people are using this as a reason nuclear power should be killed of is just idiotic.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4e/GenIVRoadmap.jpg/800px-GenIVRoadmap.jpg

As we can see most of America's reactors were built back in the day. Since people are idiots, we stopped researching and building.

Pebble bed reactor can have the entirety of its supporting infrastructure power down, blow up, get flooded, get stolen, run out of gas, or otherwise fail, all while the entire staff is on vacation, and the only thing that happens is that the PBR will warm up to its idle temperature and... Stay warm. No meltdowns, no explosions, no radiation leaks. The reactor will just sit there and radiate the heat it produces until you cool it back down or take the fuel out. This scenario was tried once, in a prototype PBR in Germany: they shut off the coolant and removed the control rods and watched, and nothing bad happened. A later inspection of the reactor and fuel pebbles showed no damage. (http://dvice.com/archives/2011/03/how-to-make-a-n.php)

Then we have reactors that can't meltdown.

Proponents of the technology often cite a whole host of reasons that makes thorium a more attractive fuel source than uranium. Some of the major advantages include:

Thorium is a lighter than uranium and leaves behind less radioactive waste. Also, the waste would only remain radioactive for 500 years whereas Uranium byproducts have toxic properties that last upwards of 10,000 years.
Unlike Uranium-fueled power plants, the thorium fission processes don’t produce plutonium, a byproduct that has raised nuclear weapon proliferation concerns in the past.
Most scientific estimates suggest that Thorium is three to four times more abundant than uranium.
But more importantly, the fact that thorium undergoes an entirely different fuel cycle lends itself to nuclear reactor designs that are also safer.

One such system, known as Accelerator Driven System, does away with uranium and plutonium altogether. Originally proposed by Nobel laureate Carlos Rubbia, ADS initiates the fission process by using a particle accelerator that shoots protons at a lead target to cause it to release neutrons as a way of kick-starting the thorium fuel cycle.

This kind of “sub-critical” reactor design, which differs from other reactors in that it requires neutrons from an outside source, essentially allows for an off-switch. Turn off the particle accelerator and the fission process is brought to a whimpering halt.

“If the particle beam is switched off, it is impossible for the fuel to enter a chain reaction and cause a meltdown, like that at Chernobyl,” said Reza Hashemi-Nezhad, a physicist at the University of Sydney who is developing a prototype that may eventually be scaled up.

The CERN European Organisation for Nuclear Research estimates that an ADS reactor system would be at least three times cheaper than coal and 4.8 times cheaper than natural gas, due to the long life of the reactor.

Still, some environmental groups, while acknowledging the benefits of thorium-based nuclear technology, advocated steering clear of nukes altogether and instead focusing on further developing renewable energy technologies of the non-radioactive variety. (http://www.smartplanet.com/technology/blog/thinking-tech/a-meltdown-proof-nuclear-reactor-may-alleviate-fears/6494/)

That last paragraph should tell you all you need to know. We got people scared of their own shadow holding us back.

Only problem with this technology? Cost.

However, from one of the above articles.


On average, there are 161 fatalities related to energy generation from coal for each one of those terawatt-hours, which comprise a quarter of the energy we use on Earth. 36 people die per TWh of oil energy, which is 40% of our energy use. Nuclear power has a deaths per TWh rate of only 0.04 while producing 6% of our energy, which makes it about ten times safer than solar power once you take into account how many people fall off roofs while installing it, and twice as safe as hydro power.

What about China? They don't seem to be worried.


It's definitely true that pebble bed reactors are, at this stage of their development, less familiar to the power industry than more conventional designs. They're also more expensive to construct while having only about 1/30 the power density of other reactors. But China, at least, is optimistic about their potential, and already has one test PBR and is planning on building thirty more in the next ten years, and possibly hundreds more by 2050. Part of the reason that China likes PBRs (besides their safety) is that their high operating temperature can be used to efficiently crack steam into hydrogen, which can be piped off and used as an alternative fuel.

[sappstuf]

Fear of the masses. How many people died at Three Mile Island? None. I'm laughing at all the people thinking they're going to be glowing in the dark on the West Coast.

More people died at Chappaquiddick..

[sappstuf]

Nice chart.

http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/xkcd_radiation.png

[jkjsooner]

One such system, known as Accelerator Driven System, does away with uranium and plutonium altogether. Originally proposed by Nobel laureate Carlos Rubbia, ADS initiates the fission process by using a particle accelerator that shoots protons at a lead target to cause it to release neutrons as a way of kick-starting the thorium fuel cycle.

This kind of “sub-critical” reactor design, which differs from other reactors in that it requires neutrons from an outside source, essentially allows for an off-switch. Turn off the particle accelerator and the fission process is brought to a whimpering halt.

Didn't I suggest this earlier? Where's my Nobel Prize?

I'm kidding of course but it's kind of funny that I was talking out of my a$$ and throwing out idea. I had no idea this was actually a nuclear design.

[Jerk]

I don't think Nuclear Power plants in America should be regulated at all. The government shouldn't stick their nose where it doesn't belong.

Surely the owners of the plants and their shareholders know much more about what need to be inspected and regulated.

Obama and the government should just butt out and let the fat cats try to earn an honest buck.

5-0

Yeah, some fat cat out there wants to invest billions of dollars of his own money to build a shoddy nuclear power plant that can blow up at any time. That kind of reminds me of what happened at Chernobyl But instead of a fat cat, it was a know-it-all government.

[SoCaliSooner]

http://www.redstaplerchronicles.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/DocBrown.jpg
http://www.itworld.com/business/140626/legacy-1800s-leaves-tokyo-facing-blackouts
Another interesting quote. I keep reading that our Nuc Generating plant between LA & San Diego will never experience a tsunami as big as the one that hit Japan (no subduction zone faults). I was just wondering if its BU pumps and its aux power supply are protected better? The one between San Francisco and LA is supposedly built on a high bluff way above sea level and supposedly has some large fresh water reservoirs to supply it in a catastrophe. I think most of south Cali gets its fresh water (in real time supply/demand) from the Co. River, the LA, & the Calif Aqueducts and I don't think they have any large water storage reservoirs close to that plant. I don't really know, though.



Your information is pretty accurate. The water supply is fairly safe from exposure and earthquake.

[Ike]

Fear of the masses. How many people died at Three Mile Island? None. I'm laughing at all the people thinking they're going to be glowing in the dark on the West Coast.

The fact people are using this as a reason nuclear power should be killed of is just idiotic.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4e/GenIVRoadmap.jpg/800px-GenIVRoadmap.jpg

As we can see most of America's reactors were built back in the day. Since people are idiots, we stopped researching and building.

Pebble bed reactor can have the entirety of its supporting infrastructure power down, blow up, get flooded, get stolen, run out of gas, or otherwise fail, all while the entire staff is on vacation, and the only thing that happens is that the PBR will warm up to its idle temperature and... Stay warm. No meltdowns, no explosions, no radiation leaks. The reactor will just sit there and radiate the heat it produces until you cool it back down or take the fuel out. This scenario was tried once, in a prototype PBR in Germany: they shut off the coolant and removed the control rods and watched, and nothing bad happened. A later inspection of the reactor and fuel pebbles showed no damage. (http://dvice.com/archives/2011/03/how-to-make-a-n.php)

Then we have reactors that can't meltdown.

Proponents of the technology often cite a whole host of reasons that makes thorium a more attractive fuel source than uranium. Some of the major advantages include:

Thorium is a lighter than uranium and leaves behind less radioactive waste. Also, the waste would only remain radioactive for 500 years whereas Uranium byproducts have toxic properties that last upwards of 10,000 years.
Unlike Uranium-fueled power plants, the thorium fission processes don’t produce plutonium, a byproduct that has raised nuclear weapon proliferation concerns in the past.
Most scientific estimates suggest that Thorium is three to four times more abundant than uranium.
But more importantly, the fact that thorium undergoes an entirely different fuel cycle lends itself to nuclear reactor designs that are also safer.

One such system, known as Accelerator Driven System, does away with uranium and plutonium altogether. Originally proposed by Nobel laureate Carlos Rubbia, ADS initiates the fission process by using a particle accelerator that shoots protons at a lead target to cause it to release neutrons as a way of kick-starting the thorium fuel cycle.

This kind of “sub-critical” reactor design, which differs from other reactors in that it requires neutrons from an outside source, essentially allows for an off-switch. Turn off the particle accelerator and the fission process is brought to a whimpering halt.

“If the particle beam is switched off, it is impossible for the fuel to enter a chain reaction and cause a meltdown, like that at Chernobyl,” said Reza Hashemi-Nezhad, a physicist at the University of Sydney who is developing a prototype that may eventually be scaled up.

The CERN European Organisation for Nuclear Research estimates that an ADS reactor system would be at least three times cheaper than coal and 4.8 times cheaper than natural gas, due to the long life of the reactor.

Still, some environmental groups, while acknowledging the benefits of thorium-based nuclear technology, advocated steering clear of nukes altogether and instead focusing on further developing renewable energy technologies of the non-radioactive variety. (http://www.smartplanet.com/technology/blog/thinking-tech/a-meltdown-proof-nuclear-reactor-may-alleviate-fears/6494/)

That last paragraph should tell you all you need to know. We got people scared of their own shadow holding us back.

Only problem with this technology? Cost.

However, from one of the above articles.



What about China? They don't seem to be worried.

While the PBRs sound attractive, there are still some real issues with them that will need to be addressed with regards to their safety. The experimental one built in Germany suffered a number of issues that were only recently released in a report. They include:
-Temperatures at least 200C higher than they should have been:
They can't stick real time monitoring equipment in the pebble bed (it would get destroyed by the movement of the pebbles), but they can put metal melt strips in that melt at 200C above the supposed max temperature. They melted. So they don't know how hot it really got, but it got hotter than it should have.
-Temperatures this high result in reactor components being contaminated at a rate an order of magnitude higher than conventional LWRs. This makes decomissioning a much more difficult and expensive process.
-Irradiated graphite dust created from the pebbles rubbing together can be a problem in emergency situation, possibly necessitating the need for air-tight containment structures around the PBR, driving the costs way up.

As to the other reactors, yeah, they may seem safe now, but it's not until you actually get one built (and then probably several years after that) that you learn what the real "oh ****" problems are. It's not impossible to have safe nuclear energy. But it's damn difficult.

[Mongo]

Nice chart.

http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/xkcd_radiation.png

The Japs have gone into plaid!!!

http://plaidweek.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/Spaceballs-theyve-gone-into-plaid.jpg

[OUmillenium]

1.21 Gigawatts!!!!!

[OUmillenium]

Future generations will be more efficient with three arms and 21 fingers...

...in the year 2000...