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View Full Version : Marijuana Use Precedes Psychosis



sappstuf
3/2/2011, 01:14 PM
Looks like this board may go from bad to worse in the coming years... ;)


Teens and young adults who start using cannabis may have an increased risk of having psychotic experiences in the years following, a German study found.

Among young people who had never smoked pot and did not have any psychotic symptoms, those who started using the drug were nearly twice as likely to develop subclinical symptoms of psychosis, Dr. Jim van Os of Maastricht University Medical Center in the Netherlands and colleagues reported online in BMJ.

In a separate analysis, those who used cannabis consistently were more likely to report persistent psychotic experiences at more than one follow-up visit.

The findings were independent of age, sex, socioeconomic status, use of other drugs, childhood trauma, and urban/rural environment, and remained significant after further adjustment for other psychiatric diagnoses.

There was no evidence that psychotic symptoms precipitated cannabis use, which would have suggested a self-medication explanation for the association.

According to the researchers, the results help clarify the temporal association between cannabis use and psychotic experiences, which are common and generally transitory phenomena that could potentially progress to a clinical psychotic disorder in the presence of certain environmental risks.

"Our study confirmed cannabis as an environmental risk factor, impacting on risk of psychosis by increasing the risk of incident psychotic experiences, and, if use continues over time, increasing the risk of persistent psychotic experiences," van Os and his colleagues wrote.

Although cannabis has been consistently associated with psychosis in prior studies, there is an ongoing debate about whether the relationship is causal, whether it can be explained by residual confounding, or whether it can be explained by the use of the drug to self-medicate for existing psychotic symptoms.

In an accompanying editorial, Dr. Wayne Hall of the University of Queensland in Herston, Australia, and Dr. Louisa Degenhardt of the Burnet Institute in Melbourne, Australia, argued that the study findings discounted the latter two possibilities, leaving only a causal explanation.

"Sensible reasoning supports the policy of providing young people with information about the risks of using cannabis," they wrote. "The case for communication is strengthened by evidence that regular cannabis use in adolescence predicts poorer educational outcomes, increased risk of using other illicit drugs, increased risk of depression, and poorer social relationships in early adulthood."

Self-Medication Ruled Out

Dr. Van Os and his colleagues examined data from the longitudinal, population-based EDSP (early developmental stages of psychopathology) study, which was conducted in the greater Munich area.

The current analysis included 1,923 individuals ages 14 to 24 at baseline in 1995. All completed follow-up visits at an average of 3.5 years and 8.4 years.

The presence of psychotic symptoms was measured using the Munich version of the composite international diagnostic interview (M-CIDI). Items addressing delusions, hallucinations, and passivity indicated the presence of subclinical psychotic experiences.

At baseline, 13 percent of the participants reported using cannabis at least five times at some point during their lives. That figure rose to 20 percent by the 3.5-year assessment.

The proportion of individuals overall who reported subclinical psychotic experiences was 23 percent at the 3.5-year visit and 12 percent at the 8.4-year visit. Rates were higher among those who reported using cannabis.

After adjusting for potential confounders, cannabis use was associated with both incident and persistent psychotic experiences.

Psychotic symptoms did not, however, precede cannabis use, which ruled out self-medication as an explanation for the association.

The researchers proposed that sensitization, in which repeated exposure to a stressor results in progressively greater responses over time, may explain the findings, "as our study showed that the risk of persistent psychotic experiences increases with longer periods of cannabis exposure."

They acknowledged some limitations, including the use of self-reported data, the lack of adjustment for a family history of psychosis, and possible bias from selected recall.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/marijuana-precedes-psychosis/story?id=13031478

yermom
3/2/2011, 01:24 PM
i'm not buying it :D

the thing is that lots of things don't show up until young adulthood. i'm no expert, but it sounds like they are trying to discount the idea that they are self-medicating before they even start. the thing is that they might just be outside of specs for being diagnosed with some psychosis, but still have something going on that makes them want to use drugs for whatever reason.

i might buy that people seeking drugs when they are young could have predispositions to psychosis later

3rdgensooner
3/2/2011, 01:36 PM
the thing is that lots of things don't show up until young adulthood. i'm no expert, but it sounds like they are trying to discount the idea that they are self-medicating before they even start. the thing is that they might just be outside of specs for being diagnosed with some psychosis, but still have something going on that makes them want to use drugs for whatever reason.

i might buy that people seeking drugs when they are young could have predispositions to psychosis laterDitto what yermom said.

jumperstop
3/2/2011, 01:40 PM
Dumb people will be dumb, crazy people will be crazy whether or not they smoke pot.

KantoSooner
3/2/2011, 01:53 PM
I'll wait for a bit of peer review before I jump to conclusions. In the past, these sort of breathless study results have turned out to be highly biased. Not saying this one is, not saying smoking the doob is good for you. Just saying that the reports that smoking dope makes black men rape white women, that a single drag and you are addicted for life and that getting high irretrievably ruins your life all failed to pan out; so why should I trust these guys?

Howzit
3/2/2011, 02:03 PM
<undulating hips>

I turned out just fine.

</undulating hips>

BillyBall
3/2/2011, 02:05 PM
Great, I have that to look forward to....

Howzit
3/2/2011, 02:08 PM
I assume you are talking about my undulating hips.

Jammin'
3/2/2011, 02:10 PM
Participants reported using cannibus at least 5 times in their lives.

Really? I've done more than that in a week/day/hour. Shouldn't I be bat**** crazy by now?


Ahhh, I see. nfm.

sooner59
3/2/2011, 02:19 PM
Reefer Madness!!!

Chuck Bao
3/2/2011, 02:43 PM
Smoking pot does make me bat-**** crazy. And, I stay that way for a few days. I am probably just pre-disposed to being bat-**** crazy and I will eventually get there anyway. Pot is just not for me and I will try to delay the onset of real bat-**** crazy as long as I can.

And even sex drugs wouldn't help deal with Howzit's undulating hips comment. But, whatev. Work it, dood, work it real good.

Howzit
3/2/2011, 03:02 PM
At least someone noticed.

Leroy Lizard
3/2/2011, 03:07 PM
I'll wait for a bit of peer review before I jump to conclusions.

British Medical Journal isn't peer-reviewed?

Leroy Lizard
3/2/2011, 03:08 PM
Really? I've done more than that in a week/day/hour. Shouldn't I be bat**** crazy by now?

You're not doing the pro-dope crowd any favors. ;)

Mjcpr
3/2/2011, 03:08 PM
British Medical Journal isn't peer-reviewed?

That is mate-reviewed, bloke-reviewed if in the norf.

Aldebaran
3/2/2011, 03:19 PM
http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs8/i/2006/161/0/2/Reefer_Madness_Satyr_by_AdmYrrek.jpg

NormanPride
3/2/2011, 03:23 PM
Study in a nutshell:

Baseline question: "Do you smoke weed?"
Normal Person: I do not smoke the wacky weed, nor will I ever!
Pothead: Heck yeah, man, that stuff's awesome!

3.5 year Question: "Are you crazy?"
Normal Person: No!
Pothead: I don't know, man, I think the whole world's crazy and I'm the only sane one, you know?

CONCLUSIVE PROOF

KantoSooner
3/2/2011, 03:29 PM
British Medical Journal isn't peer-reviewed?

I saw no reference to 'British Medical Journal' in the article. (either by name or as a generic description.) Although I'm sure there are others, the one in Britain I'm most familiar with is The Lancet, which I'm sure they would have mentioned had it been published there.

My point is not to trash the article: I don't have access to the methods or data used in the study. Rather, that we exert caution on the grounds that the anti-pot forces of the world have been trying to show precisely these sorts of results since at least the enactment of the Pure Food and Drug Act of 1904 (?)(maybe 1908) with meagre success. More typically, the 'negative' studies have been found to be biased.

KantoSooner
3/2/2011, 03:31 PM
Sorry, I see the reference to 'BMJ' now. I suppose that must be 'British Medical Journal'. My bad.
Rest of comments stand.

KantoSooner
3/2/2011, 03:31 PM
Is BMJ peer reviewed?

Leroy Lizard
3/2/2011, 03:32 PM
I saw no reference to 'British Medical Journal' in the article. (either by name or as a generic description.) Although I'm sure there are others, the one in Britain I'm most familiar with is The Lancet, which I'm sure they would have mentioned had it been published there.


Among young people who had never smoked pot and did not have any psychotic symptoms, those who started using the drug were nearly twice as likely to develop subclinical symptoms of psychosis, Dr. Jim van Os of Maastricht University Medical Center in the Netherlands and colleagues reported online in BMJ.

I'm no medical researcher, but isn't BMJ the British Medical Journal?

Mississippi Sooner
3/2/2011, 03:32 PM
What jumps out to me is "the lack of adjustment for a family history of psychosis." That fact alone would seem to severely taint the study.


Heh heh. I said taint.

Leroy Lizard
3/2/2011, 03:35 PM
Is BMJ peer reviewed?

I would suspect so. JAMA, the Lancet, and BMJ are the most prominent medical journals that come to my mind.

Leroy Lizard
3/2/2011, 03:36 PM
I'm all fine with the critiquing of the study. I just wish the same skepticism was poured on all the pro-drug studies as well.

KantoSooner
3/2/2011, 03:38 PM
Probably reflects more on my reading habits, but BMJ is not one I've ever encountered. (unlike JAMA, Lancet and a few others).

There are 'journals' out there that publish the Jenny McCarthy type studies. I'm wary of those I am familiar with.

KantoSooner
3/2/2011, 03:39 PM
In the words of Richard Pryor, "Nobody said this **** was good for you."

Leroy Lizard
3/2/2011, 03:43 PM
According to WIKI:

BMJ is the new name for the British Medical Journal
It is published by a subsidiary of the British Medical Association
It started in 1840.
It is peer-reviewed
It's acceptance rate for research articles is less than 7%

KantoSooner
3/2/2011, 03:48 PM
Well, then I guess the 40% or so of the American population who've smoked pot have psychosis to look forward to.
That's it. First we lose a starting CB and now this.
I'm going to go hand myself.


Or maybe smoke a joint.

KantoSooner
3/2/2011, 03:48 PM
that was 'hang'. Hang myself.


Not that I'm above handing myself. But that wasn't what I meant.

sappstuf
3/2/2011, 03:54 PM
that was 'hang'. Hang myself.


Not that I'm above handing myself. But that wasn't what I meant.

http://rlv.zcache.com/freudian_slip_bumper_sticker-p128072773550757967trl0_400.jpg

C&CDean
3/2/2011, 04:08 PM
I don't need a bunch of limeys to tell me what I already know.

"Smoke up Johny" "why do I hear sirens all the time?" "why are you looking at me that way?" "did someone just knock? crap, quick, hide..." "it's your mom" "oh crap, I'm not here" "****, that cop just turned on his lights" "maaaan this sucks"...

NormanPride
3/2/2011, 04:20 PM
That sounds like an average day for oudavid.

Mongo
3/2/2011, 04:40 PM
Who wants to smoke a hooter with me?


and then we can rub **** in our hair

BillyBall
3/2/2011, 04:44 PM
According to WIKI:

It's acceptance rate for research articles is less than 7%

Sweet, I'm free to get higher than 10 dutchmen then.

Jammin'
3/2/2011, 04:51 PM
Study in a nutshell:

Baseline question: "Do you smoke weed?"
Normal Person: I do not smoke the wacky weed, nor will I ever!
Pothead: Heck yeah, man, that stuff's awesome!

3.5 year Question: "Are you crazy?"
Normal Person: No!
Pothead: I don't know, man, I think the whole world's crazy and I'm the only sane one, you know?

CONCLUSIVE PROOF

8.5 year Question: "Is the whole world crazy"
Normal Person: pretty much
Pothead: Dude, the world is just microscopic in the grand scheme of things. The totality of the universe is so far beyond what we can possibly understand that man I could use some nacho's right now. Did I tell you I have Tiger's blood running through my veins? Anyway, yeah, the world is pretty much crazy.

Howzit
3/2/2011, 05:03 PM
Who wants to smoke a hooter with me?


and then we can rub **** in our hair

:les: IN!!!1

Leroy Lizard
3/2/2011, 05:34 PM
Sweet, I'm free to get higher than 10 dutchmen then.

That one went right over my head.

Mongo
3/2/2011, 05:48 PM
:les: IN!!!1

Out

You never chip in on the sack orthe ****

NormanPride
3/2/2011, 06:05 PM
Does pot smoking lead to watching the View?