So, the baseball team is missing four days of school this week.

[IndySooner]

The team went to DFW yesterday to play a game, and today, they're flying out to San Diego. I don't understand how they're going to make it missing so much school. I mean, football players can't miss school, right? That's what we keep hearing from the BCS people.

The baseball team is missing more class this week than the football players do in a month. Can we go ahead and agree (Leroy) that the academic argument against a playoff is complete BS. There are arguments that are legitimate, but the academic argument is 100% to play on peoples' emotions.

[pphilfran]

It is about money and not school work...

The NCAA has little to do with the BCS and bowl system...

I hear more about missing school work from the college presidents then I ever have from the NCAA...

[IndySooner]

It is about money and not school work...

Agreed

The NCAA has little to do with the BCS and bowl system...

True, except that technically, the BCS is just a smaller group of NCAA schools. Neither are really an organization, but just a group of institutions bonded by agreements.

I hear more about missing school work from the college presidents then I ever have from the NCAA...

And these presidents are using the line in order to make people agree with their argument. The bigger picture shows that it's all about WHO is getting paid in these agreements. That's kind of my point. There's more money to be made in a playoff system, but the institutions, not the individuals, stand to make a killing in a playoff system.

I agree with all of your points, as a whole.

[jumperstop]

There might be an argument for the academics side to the playoff thing. And just because the baseball team misses more doesn't make it ok. They probably shouldn't be missing four days in a week either. That said all the Bcs cares about is money.

[BoulderSooner79]

A playoff thread already? Before spring training!?

There is no god.

[badger]

Baseball players usually don't get full scholarships like football players, so of course you can't expect them to get a full education. ;)

Just to emphasize, I'll repeat the ;)

Once again, ;)

;););););););););)

[jumperstop]

They might be better off sticking with the injury argument anyways, too many games already. Any argument is going to be hard when the lower divisions already have a playoff.

[texaspokieokie]

i'm sure they took their books & are studying as we speak.:D

[pphilfran]

I agree with all of your points, as a whole.

There may be more money in a playoff system, but the BCS bowls would lose some of their luster in years when they did not have a semi final game...

Those BCS bowls are the ones that took the risks and started the bowls...they have been big business for decades and they are not going to give up their elite status without a fight...they were put in place to make money for the host cities...nothing more and nothing less..

The Rose Bowl doesn't want to host a quarter final game in the middle of December...or be relegated to a meaningless game if playoffs are played in home stadiums...

If a system does not address those shortcoming it has little chance of being implemented...

[bigfatjerk]

I think it's probably not about money. You might actually get more money in a playoff system. It's about control of the money really.

[pphilfran]

I think it's probably not about money. You might actually get more money in a playoff system. It's about control of the money really. Not necessarily the money.

Well said...

[bigfatjerk]

Also academics don't play a big role in athletics anymore. If they did they would make these players stay longer than they do. Which they do in football a little bit but players can still leave after 3 years without graduating. You wouldn't have 1 and done's in basketball and you can have them in baseball in some situations. If academics really played a role then there would be rules where you have to graduate to play the pro version of those sports.

[IndySooner]

I think it's probably not about money. You might actually get more money in a playoff system. It's about control of the money really.

This

[SoonerPr8r]

It's because no one likes baseball so no one pays attention...... :D

[IndySooner]

There may be more money in a playoff system, but the BCS bowls would lose some of their luster in years when they did not have a semi final game...

Those BCS bowls are the ones that took the risks and started the bowls...they have been big business for decades and they are not going to give up their elite status without a fight...they were put in place to make money for the host cities...nothing more and nothing less..

The Rose Bowl doesn't want to host a quarter final game in the middle of December...or be relegated to a meaningless game if playoffs are played in home stadiums...

If a system does not address those shortcoming it has little chance of being implemented...

It's a bit weird to me that you would support the bowls in this, though. I mean, if you look at it, and a playoff is a better option with more money to be made, etc., isn't that the free market deciding what is the best option? Instead, the bowl games get their PAC's involved and lobby the crap out of everyone in order to keep their monopoly on the post-season.

[IndySooner]

It's because no one likes baseball so no one pays attention...... :D

Okay, substitute basketball (only women's these days, obviously) instead. No sport misses LESS class than football.

[pphilfran]

It's a bit weird to me that you would support the bowls in this, though. I mean, if you look at it, and a playoff is a better option with more money to be made, etc., isn't that the free market deciding what is the best option? Instead, the bowl games get their PAC's involved and lobby the crap out of everyone in order to keep their monopoly on the post-season.

I don't really care one way or another...just stating a fact that most people overlook...

The Big bowls have a lot of clout...they don't want to give up the prime holiday season game times...they want to bring people into their cities for multiple days...a playoff game every weekend will stop the long term tourist...

Like I said if you want a playoff you MUST address how to handle the big bowl games...the games that took the risks and started the whole thing...

If your system does not take that into account you are pizzing into the wind...

[bigfatjerk]

And the other argument about the regular season being more important because of bowls. That may have been true when there were around 20 teams in bowl games about 15-20 years ago. That's not true anymore when more than half the teams are in bowl games now. The regular season means almost nothing now because of bowl games. 7-5 teams get to bowls now. That shouldn't happen in a bowl system.

[Leroy Lizard]

The team went to DFW yesterday to play a game, and today, they're flying out to San Diego. I don't understand how they're going to make it missing so much school. I mean, football players can't miss school, right? That's what we keep hearing from the BCS people.

The baseball team is missing more class this week than the football players do in a month. Can we go ahead and agree (Leroy) that the academic argument against a playoff is complete BS. There are arguments that are legitimate, but the academic argument is 100% to play on peoples' emotions.

We have been through this a billion times.

You can make up work missed from regular school days. But you can't make up study time lost for a final exam. I can't even postpone a final exam without the Dean's permission, and I wouldn't for a football player to play a game anyway.

Those who want to dismiss the final exam argument simply care only about their own entertainment. They don't give one iota of care about some stupid football player's grades. If a player ends up doing poorly because he had to play on the weekend before a Monday final, no one in here is going to give a **** as long as they got to see an exciting game and settle this stupid argument over who is #1.

And that is no exaggeration. And I mean NO exaggeration.

Now, if you want to call me names because I disagree, have at it.

[Leroy Lizard]

The Big bowls have a lot of clout...they don't want to give up the prime holiday season game times...they want to bring people into their cities for multiple days...a playoff game every weekend will stop the long term tourist...

Which is another problem with the playoffs. It isn't just the cities that benefit from the extended stays and long-term planning available in a bowl system, but the traveling fans as well. Right now a fan can plan weeks ahead and the host city can plan long-term festivities. We're going to replace that with a system where fans have to buy tickets at the last moment, fly in, and quickly fly out. That's going to suck.

[IndySooner]

Which is another problem with the playoffs. It isn't just the cities that benefit from the extended stays and long-term planning available in a bowl system, but the traveling fans as well. Right now a fan can plan weeks ahead and the host city can plan long-term festivities. We're going to replace that with a system where fans have to buy tickets at the last moment, fly in, and quickly fly out. That's going to suck.

Home games would eliminate your concerns there. Be in the top-8 in the country, you host a game. The majority of those tickets are for local fans.

As for your final exam argument, that's easily avoidable by scheduling around finals. It's not a hard thing to do.

I promised you a playoff thread, right? I'm a man of my word, even if people on the other thread don't think so! :)

[Leroy Lizard]

Home games would eliminate your concerns there.

Makes it worse. "Gee, how swell it is to travel 30 miles to Norman for the game. This is much better than partying in San Diego. :rolleyes:

Besides, you would only be able to host games on a home field for the first round.

[Leroy Lizard]

As for your final exam argument, that's easily avoidable by scheduling around finals. It's not a hard thing to do.

As long as you can prevent games from occurring at least a week before final exams and the weekend after, I won't argue the final exam issue.

I have other problems with a playoff. I can direct you to prior threads if you want to read them.

Or, you can continue to post lame reasons for wanting a playoff, and I will continue to post lame, er great, reasons to avoid it.

[HBick]

Which is another problem with the playoffs. It isn't just the cities that benefit from the extended stays and long-term planning available in a bowl system, but the traveling fans as well. Right now a fan can plan weeks ahead and the host city can plan long-term festivities. We're going to replace that with a system where fans have to buy tickets at the last moment, fly in, and quickly fly out. That's going to suck.

I saw an article with Sammy B last week and they asked him about a playoff and he said he prefers the current system (spoken like a true sooner, bless his heart), but he did say if they went to a playoff you would probably have to go to a 11-12 game season

[Leroy Lizard]

I saw an article with Sammy B last week and they asked him about a playoff and he said he prefers the current system (spoken like a true sooner, bless his heart), but he did say if they went to a playoff you would probably have to go to a 11-12 game season

That pretty much settles it. ;)

[IndySooner]

As long as you can prevent games from occurring at least a week before final exams and the weekend after, I won't argue the final exam issue.

Other sports practice and play games the week before and the weekend after exams. Lame.

[IndySooner]

Besides, you would only be able to host games on a home field for the first round.

Not true. A good system has home games through the semi-finals. Only the championship would be on a neutral field.

[Leroy Lizard]

Other sports practice and play games the week before and the weekend after exams. Lame.

Playoff games? The last I saw every NCAA sport avoids playing its tournament games near final exams. I went through the list some time ago and, nope, no sport does it.

BTW, your response to my response, which garnered my response, has sailed through this board on at least two other occasions. We're accomplishing nothing.

[Leroy Lizard]

Not true. A good system has home games through the semi-finals. Only the championship would be on a neutral field.

That would be a monster money loser. To make money you need to host games in big cities.

[bigfatjerk]

That would be a monster money loser. To make money you need to host games in big cities.

Not really. It's not like most bowl games are in big cities. Boise Idaho? El Paso Texas? Mobile, Alabama? Not exactly the mid metropolises in the US.

[IndySooner]

BTW, your response to my response, which garnered my response, has sailed through this board on at least two other occasions. We're accomplishing nothing.

You're right. I'm done here.

[Leroy Lizard]

Not really. It's not like most bowl games are in big cities. Boise Idaho? El Paso Texas? Mobile, Alabama? Not exactly the mid metropolises in the US.

Yeah, but you're forgetting one thing: Those cities typically bring in fans from both teams. And the big complaint is that many of those bowl games make little money. So how are you going to rake in all those big bucks if you replace the current system with something that is even weaker financially?

You're advocating a system where Lincoln, NE, will host Miami in Lincoln with over half the draw pulled from local yokels. Even if you managed to convince the Powers That Be to go along with that scheme for the first round, they're not stupid enough to go along with it for the second round.

And you still haven't solved the problem from the fan's perspective: How fun is it to travel from OKC to Norman to attend a football game? Compare that to partying in San Diego.

I'm done here as well. If anyone wants to argue further, just post one of our older threads.

[bigfatjerk]

You are crazy if you think any football game isn't fun to attend. There's only so few games a year. A lot of bowl games now are having trouble filling seats. You wouldn't have that problem in a playoff system. Either way you do it.

[stoopified]

I can't even postpone a final exam without the Dean's permission, and I wouldn't for a football player to play a game anyway. YOU CALL YOURSELF A SOONER FAN? yOU ARE NO FRIEND OF THE PROGRAM. :)

[bmjlr]

It's because no one likes baseball so no one pays attention...... :D

^^WINNER!!!!! :D

[Leroy Lizard]

You are crazy if you think any football game isn't fun to attend.

That isn't the issue. I am referring to festivities/vacation/holiday stuff, not attending a game.

[Leroy Lizard]

YOU CALL YOURSELF A SOONER FAN? yOU ARE NO FRIEND OF THE PROGRAM. :)

Heh.

If it was a Sooner player... maybe. :D

[TopDawg]

And you still haven't solved the problem from the fan's perspective: How fun is it to travel from OKC to Norman to attend a football game? Compare that to partying in San Diego.

You're leaving out the magnitude of the game. I'd rather go to a playoff game in Norman than a 2nd tier bowl game in San Diego.

Edit: regardless of how many traveling carnivals and parades they offer in San Diego.

[TopDawg]

As long as you can prevent games from occurring at least a week before final exams and the weekend after, I won't argue the final exam issue.

I can vouch for Leroy here. When I proposed my schedule which avoided exam weeks, he conceded that point and moved on to his lame arse slippery slope argument. ;)

[pphilfran]

You're leaving out the magnitude of the game. I'd rather go to a playoff game in Norman than a 2nd tier bowl game in San Diego.

Edit: regardless of how many traveling carnivals and parades they offer in San Diego.

If you are going to a 2nd tier bowl game you won't make an 8 team playoff...probably not a 16 team playoff...

[C&CDean]

You know what's sad? All this traffic about baseball on the football board.

Y'all know we have a pretty decent baseball team this year, right?

Cretins.

And before anyone else goes "baseball sucks" I'd think twice. Baseball most assuredly does NOT suck. People who don't like baseball suck.

[pphilfran]

You know what's sad? All this traffic about baseball on the football board.

Y'all know we have a pretty decent baseball team this year, right?

Cretins.

And before anyone else goes "baseball sucks" I'd think twice. Baseball most assuredly does NOT suck. People who don't like baseball suck.

I like me some OU baseball...

[C&CDean]

Atta boy Phil.

[pphilfran]

Atta boy Phil.

I go to a half dozen games a year...even went to Houston for the Super Regional a few years ago....

[C&CDean]

Well how about you come join us on the baseball board every now and then?

We had more traffic over there when we sucked and everybody wanted to fire Sunny. We're 10-0, ranked #2-3 depending on the pole, and have a great series coming up starting tomorrow in San Diego.

[TopDawg]

If you are going to a 2nd tier bowl game you won't make an 8 team playoff...probably not a 16 team playoff...

Even more reason not to compare the two like Leroy did.

[TopDawg]

And while the bowl system may provide some lucrative financial incentives for the host cities, they're not always great for the institutions participating in them.

Take, for instance, the bowl game we were in last year. (http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/Connecticut-takes-big-financial-hit-for-Fiesta-Bowl-030211?GT1=39002)

[Leroy Lizard]

You're leaving out the magnitude of the game. I'd rather go to a playoff game in Norman than a 2nd tier bowl game in San Diego.

Edit: regardless of how many traveling carnivals and parades they offer in San Diego.

So would I. But it's dangerous to project our own likes and dislikes on the population at large

[Leroy Lizard]

I can vouch for Leroy here. When I proposed my schedule which avoided exam weeks, he conceded that point and moved on to his lame arse slippery slope argument. ;)

I didn't argue the final exam issue anymore. Your scheme just raised more problems that we needed to solve, like heat stroke. :rolleyes:

[TopDawg]

I didn't argue the final exam issue anymore. Your scheme just raised more problems that we needed to solve, like heat stroke. :rolleyes:

You have an (intentionally?) incorrect recollection of my scheme.

[sperry]

The 30 minutes from OKC to Norman vs. traveling to San Diego isn't a good argument either. Since you would have no travel costs associated with the bowl game, you could still go on a vacation to San Diego, or wherever, and spend no extra money.


The academic well being of the players is a valid concern, but we all know the people in charge don't care about that, despite bringing it up in opposition to a playoff. If they thought they could make more money doing so, they'd schedule the bowl games in the middle of every schools' exam period in a heartbeat.

[texaspokieokie]

if baseball team can miss 4 days,it is only logical that we MUST have a football playoff !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:rolleyes:

[bigfatjerk]

The 30 minutes from OKC to Norman vs. traveling to San Diego isn't a good argument either. Since you would have no travel costs associated with the bowl game, you could still go on a vacation to San Diego, or wherever, and spend no extra money.


The academic well being of the players is a valid concern, but we all know the people in charge don't care about that, despite bringing it up in opposition to a playoff. If they thought they could make more money doing so, they'd schedule the bowl games in the middle of every schools' exam period in a heartbeat.

Academics plays no role in athletics. If it did we wouldn't have 3 year players in college football, 1 and done's in basketball, and some in baseball if your age is right. You wouldn't have the ability for players to leave early to play their sport without a degree. That's if academics really mattered.

If you really wanted to change it to where academics mattered the NCAA or whoever would work out a deal with these sports basically making it to where to play in pro sports you need a degree to do so. That won't happen though.

[texaspokieokie]

Academics plays no role in athletics. If it did we wouldn't have 3 year players in college football, 1 and done's in basketball, and some in baseball if your age is right. You wouldn't have the ability for players to leave early to play their sport without a degree. That's if academics really mattered.

If you really wanted to change it to where academics mattered the NCAA or whoever would work out a deal with these sports basically making it to where to play in pro sports you need a degree to do so. That won't happen though.

you could force kids to go to school for 4 years, but you couldn't force them to graduate.

if some parent really wanted to force the issue, you couldn't keep kids from
turning pro, like right out of hi-school

[pphilfran]

Well how about you come join us on the baseball board every now and then?

We had more traffic over there when we sucked and everybody wanted to fire Sunny. We're 10-0, ranked #2-3 depending on the pole, and have a great series coming up starting tomorrow in San Diego.

Will do....

[bigfatjerk]

you could force kids to go to school for 4 years, but you couldn't force them to graduate.

if some parent really wanted to force the issue, you couldn't keep kids from
turning pro, like right out of hi-school

It's possible to graduate in 3 years. All you have to do is say get a degree to play in the NFL. For a number of other jobs that's something you need. But that's not really my point.

I'm just saying it's ridiculous to say that college athletics has anything to do with academics. If it did then you wouldn't basically promote kids to leave early. In college basketball it's currently a completely joke. You can basically go one semester and you don't have anything to worry about.

[Leroy Lizard]

You have an (intentionally?) incorrect recollection of my scheme.

Did you have the season starting earlier? My recollection is that you did.

We can always solve any playoff system problem by introducing a scheme designed specifically to solve that problem. Unfortunately, they just produce more problems. It's like playing whack-a-mole.

[Leroy Lizard]

The 30 minutes from OKC to Norman vs. traveling to San Diego isn't a good argument either. Since you would have no travel costs associated with the bowl game, you could still go on a vacation to San Diego, or wherever, and spend no extra money.

But San Diego would have not any festivities planned for your trip. I've been on a few bowl trips and I found that to be an important part of the fun.

Sure, I can travel to San Diego in the summer if I want to. That goes without saying. But it is irrelevant to this argument.


The academic well being of the players is a valid concern, but we all know the people in charge don't care about that, despite bringing it up in opposition to a playoff.

I think it is very much a valid concern of theirs. Sure, they don't always act in the best interests of athletes, but they should and often do.

This is a bad argument anyway. Just because an organization doesn't always reflect the values you think it should is no excuse for them to abandon their principles completely.

If there is a disconnect between athletics and academics, then we need to solve that problem. We can't do that by advocating a system that makes the problem worse.

[Leroy Lizard]

Well how about you come join us on the baseball board every now and then?

We had more traffic over there when we sucked and everybody wanted to fire Sunny. We're 10-0, ranked #2-3 depending on the pole, and have a great series coming up starting tomorrow in San Diego.

If they get into the final round of the national title game, I'll watch.

I have a feeling my response will not be popular, but I think it reflects most Sooner fans' attitudes toward baseball.

To drag this back to the original point, with a playoff system, you have one winner and a whole bunch of losers. If you don't win the whole enchilada, you don't really have much to brag about. Just making the tournament doesn't do much for me. Maybe others feel differently, but that year when we lost to USC in the College World Series left no impression on me whatsoever. And I mean NONE.

[Mongo]

I'm done here as well. If anyone wants to argue further, just post one of our older threads.


What happened? You said you were done yet rattle off three posts in a row

[Leroy Lizard]

What happened? You said you were done yet rattle off three posts in a row

TopDawg showed up.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Baseball and Softball are the worst of the college sports about missing. During the season they seem to miss a third of their classes.

[OUmillenium]

Did you have the season starting earlier? My recollection is that you did.

We can always solve any playoff system problem by introducing a scheme designed specifically to solve that problem. Unfortunately, they just produce more problems. It's like playing whack-a-mole.

My 1-yearl old loves whack a mole.

[TopDawg]

TopDawg showed up.

heh


Did you have the season starting earlier? My recollection is that you did.

That's one possibility I mentioned, but the scheme I settled on started at the same time.


We can always solve any playoff system problem by introducing a scheme designed specifically to solve that problem. Unfortunately, they just produce more problems. It's like playing whack-a-mole.

The stance you put forth here seems to ignore the problems that already exist in the current system. Granted, we don't see eye-to-eye on the magnitude of those problems which, ultimately, is the main reason we don't see eye-to-eye on a playoff.

So, yes, every system is going to have problems. My stance is that the problems that currently exist are worse than the problems that would arise in the system I've suggested. Most of the problems you've associated with my system aren't really problems with my system but problems with what you think my system will turn into...the slippery slope.

[Leroy Lizard]

The stance you put forth here seems to ignore the problems that already exist in the current system. Granted, we don't see eye-to-eye on the magnitude of those problems which, ultimately, is the main reason we don't see eye-to-eye on a playoff.

So, yes, every system is going to have problems. My stance is that the problems that currently exist are worse than the problems that would arise in the system I've suggested. Most of the problems you've associated with my system aren't really problems with my system but problems with what you think my system will turn into...the slippery slope.

My stance is that we should concentrate on bringing college football back in line with its original purpose, not to use the existing problems (whatever they may be) as an excuse to instill a system that is not only faulty but pretty much guaranteed to get worse every year.

Your system sucked, too.

[TopDawg]

Your system sucked, too.

But not as much as the current one. Or the one you'd prefer.

Nanny nanny boo boo.

[Leroy Lizard]

But not as much as the current one. Or the one you'd prefer.

The one I prefer is the one we had before the BCS, that is, the one before the malcontents (like you) started going boo hoo over the silly "Who's #1?" debate.