Jeffrey Dahmer (religious topic)

[BOOMERBRADLEY]

I watched his bio last night on A&E. I am fascinated by serial killers and why they are the way they are. But to the topic at hand. I remember growing up I was told that Dahmer did all those terrible things to young men and ruined countless lives by his actions, but while in prison he was baptized. For those who care to comment, do you believe that Dahmer is in Heaven because he was baptized? Or do you think that it was all too little too late? So based on Dahmer I could never go to church and live however I want but get baptized a few days before I die and all will be good. I am curious what some think

[Mongo]

depends if it is sincere or a CYA motive

[The Profit]

He rots in hell. He was judged by his deeds.

[A Sooner in Texas]

Where Dahmer is now isn't up to us.

[Soonrboy]

He won't be in my heaven.

[MR2-Sooner86]

If he accepted Jesus Christ into his heart as his Lord and Savior, and really meant it, he's in Heaven. If he didn't, he's in Hell. There's really no other way around it.

Take it however you want.

[BOOMERBRADLEY]

I understand what some of you are saying about sincerity, but it's awfully hard for me to understand it. I'm sure the family of the guy he dismembered and left on the table in his house feel better that the guy who killed him is in Heaven with the all mighty

[lexsooner]

It's ultimately up to the Big Guy upstairs, but I have to believe it would also depend on the sincerity of the person's faith and repentance. Without these, the act of baptism is meaningless.

[Flagstaffsooner]

What did Jeffrey Dahmer say to Lorena Bobbitt?

Hey, you gonna eat that piece?

:P

[KantoSooner]

He won't be in my heaven.

Ah! Here's a man after my own theory. See, for some people, floating on clouds, playing harps and singing Psalms for eternity would be Heaven. And Sitting in a smoky bar with cursing drunks and a teevee with football on woudl be Hell.

And yet, for me, the opposite would be true.

I think I'll side with Will Rogers (generally a safe bet) who, when told dogs didn't go to Heaven said, "Well, I guess then I'd rather go where the dogs go."

Oh, and if there is any justice in life, Dahmer didn't get credit for his 'conversion'. there are some people who are just mistakes. He's one. Best he was erased and obliterated.

[BOOMERBRADLEY]

I think I'll side with Will Rogers (generally a safe bet) who, when told dogs didn't go to Heaven said, "Well, I guess then I'd rather go where the dogs go."


I have never heard that. Love it!!!

[KantoSooner]

Well, take care, I quoted it off the top of my head. got the essence, but probably didn't word it as cleverly as he did.

[BOOMERBRADLEY]

Well, take care, I quoted it off the top of my head. got the essence, but probably didn't word it as cleverly as he did.


"If there are no dogs in Heaven,
then when I die I want to go
where they went."
Will Rogers, 1897-1935

[87sooner]

I watched his bio last night on A&E. I am fascinated by serial killers and why they are the way they are. But to the topic at hand. I remember growing up I was told that Dahmer did all those terrible things to young men and ruined countless lives by his actions, but while in prison he was baptized. For those who care to comment, do you believe that Dahmer is in Heaven because he was baptized? Or do you think that it was all too little too late? So based on Dahmer I could never go to church and live however I want but get baptized a few days before I die and all will be good. I am curious what some think

you mean like the thief on the cross next to Jesus?


luke 23: 40 But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”

42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[d]”

43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

baptism means nothing without a change of heart....believing Jesus died for your sin...repentance of sin....turning from sin...following Jesus...
if dahmer did those things....he's in heaven...

it's not dahmer's fault if he never experienced the love of God and he did unspeakable things...
apart from God we're all lost and wretched...
if God can't forgive dahmer....he can't forgive you or i...

[87sooner]

He won't be in my heaven.

is Jesus your Lord and Savior?
has God forgiven you?
you think you were "better" than dahmer BEFORE you accepted Christ (assuming you have)?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Where Dahmer is now isn't up to us.the subject of religion...nobody really knows for sure...

[87sooner]

He rots in hell. He was judged by his deeds.

it that is true...then you will rot in hell too...

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

If he accepted Jesus Christ into his heart as his Lord and Savior, and really meant it, he's in Heaven. If he didn't, he's in Hell. There's really no other way around it.

Take it however you want.Maybe he took the 72 virgins route?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

"If there are no dogs in Heaven,
then when I die I want to go
where they went."
Will Rogers, 1897-1935Dude looked a lot older than 38 yrs. IMHO. I would have thought he was about early 50's.

[KantoSooner]

He obviously didn't use SPF40 sunscreen.

[Turd_Ferguson]

JM's head is esploding right about now...:D

[AlboSooner]

It seems so unforgivable the act of not only killing, sexually abusing someone, but also desecrating their remains, and engaging in cannibalism. I think human forgiveness and mercy has confined limits.

The Bible tells of the God, who is rich in mercy and love.
In Romans 10:13 we are told: Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

In 2 Corinthians 5:17 we are told: Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away, behold, all things have become new.


The act of baptism itself is not the act of salvation, but the first commandment Jesus gives to new believers, and an early litmus test that the change in the heart has occurred. As mind boggling as it seems, even someone like Jerffrey Dahmer can be saved, and even someone like me. But for the grace of God, we are all capable of unspeakable evil.

I think it is really hard to hear God's calling, time and time again refuse hims time and time again, and opt out for a last moment conversion. Every time we say no to God, our heart hardens to his call, and the reality of a death-bed or last moment conversion grows dim.

The prophet Isaiah tells us:
Seek the LORD while he may be found;
call on him while he is near.
7 Let the wicked forsake their ways
and the unrighteous their thoughts.
Let them turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on them,
and to our God, for he will freely pardon (Isaiah 55:16-17 NIV)


Sometime when we say no, no, no to God, he gets the message clearly, and decides to leave you alone. What great horror to be left alone to ourselves. Father, may you never turn me over to the desires of my own heart.

[BOOMERBRADLEY]

Dude looked a lot older than 38 yrs. IMHO. I would have thought he was about early 50's.

Sorry, I copy and pasted. didn't look

[oulucas]

If he accepted Jesus Christ into his heart as his Lord and Savior, and really meant it, he's in Heaven. If he didn't, he's in Hell. There's really no other way around it.

Take it however you want.

This is how I was taught.

[BOOMERBRADLEY]

I know that Dahmer killed a lot of people and did unforgivable things. We can reference every fairy tale story and pick out parts of bible verses that make us look smart. Seems a lot of you are wasting your time going to church on Sundays...

[AlboSooner]

In my conversations with moslems, they have told me that in Islam you never know if you are saved or not. It is a work-based salvation model. Meaning, when you die, Allah weighs your good deeds, and bad deeds, and if the good ones outweigh the bad ones, then you enter heaven.

I raised two concerns with them:
1. How do you keep track of the deeds, when God judges even the evil thoughts.

2. Can the glory of an infinite, wonderful, amazing God be earned by finite deeds of humanity?


I never got an answer.

[GDC]

Excellent example of why all religion is hypocritical, anachronistic, and moronic.

[AlboSooner]

I would advise all, that without God the problem of evil (which is at the heart of OP's quandary) doesn't make sense.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

In my conversations with moslems, they have told me that in Islam you never know if you are saved or not. It is a work-based salvation model. Meaning, when you die, Allah weighs your good deeds, and bad deeds, and if the good ones outweigh the bad ones, then you enter heaven.

I raised two concerns with them:
1. How do you keep track of the deeds, when God judges even the evil thoughts.

2. Can the glory of an infinite, wonderful, amazing God be earned by finite deeds of humanity?


I never got an answer.It would have been interesting to query themabout the particular details of the 72 virgin scenario, like can they stay in your heaven even after you have scored? What's the time frame regarding the performance of their conjugal service? etc. etc.

[AlboSooner]

It would have been interesting to query themabout the particular details of the 72 virgin scenario, like can they stay in your heaven even after you have scored? What's the time frame regarding the performance of their conjugal service? etc. etc.

The promise of 72 virgins is confusing even to Moslems. I think it is the Hadith rather than the Qur'an which mentioned 72 virgins, or 72 wives. Islam is as diverse as Christianity in sects, under sects, good Imams and bad Imams, whatever, it is very heterogeneous. Why would I muddy the conversation with something not even Moslems agree with?

[Soonrboy]

is Jesus your Lord and Savior?
has God forgiven you?
you think you were "better" than dahmer BEFORE you accepted Christ (assuming you have)?

Why do you need to know?

[Jammin']

I think I'll side with Will Rogers (generally a safe bet) who, when told dogs didn't go to Heaven said, "Well, I guess then I'd rather go where the dogs go."

I assume in doggie heaven they can pee on the couch, sleep on the bed and hump the cat. That's not really what I want them doing in my heaven. Bit of a quandry.


the subject of religion...nobody really knows for sure...

I don't understand how anyone can be fully confident in any single theory about religon. I hope for something good.

[GrandStrandSooner]

The promise of 72 virgins is confusing even to Moslems. I think it is the Hadith rather than the Qur'an which mentioned 72 virgins, or 72 wives. Islam is as diverse as Christianity in sects, under sects, good Imams and bad Imams, whatever, it is very heterogeneous. Why would I muddy the conversation with something not even Moslems agree with?

72 wives? That sounds like hell to me.

[AlbqSooner]

"For God has consigned all men to disobedience, that He may have mercy upon them."
Romans 11:32

[The Profit]

it that is true...then you will rot in hell too...




You are a judgmental little squirt, aren't you?

[87sooner]

You are a judgmental little squirt, aren't you?

no.....not at all...
if what you say is true...i'll be rotting right there with you...

[Penguin]

you mean like the thief on the cross next to Jesus?

baptism means nothing without a change of heart....believing Jesus died for your sin...repentance of sin....turning from sin...following Jesus...
if dahmer did those things....he's in heaven...

it's not dahmer's fault if he never experienced the love of God and he did unspeakable things...
apart from God we're all lost and wretched...
if God can't forgive dahmer....he can't forgive you or i...


Amen to that. When I start getting into a philosophical mood questioning if I, or anybody else is going to heaven, I'm comforted by the thief on the cross. He was never circumcised like Jesus, he was never baptized like Jesus, he never gave a penny to a church, and he may never had done a single good deed his entire life. Yet, he is in Heaven simply because he truly repented and accepted Jesus as Lord and his personal Savior.

I'm disturbed by a few responses in this thread. Some may be pretty disappointed with God's idea of Heaven because it will be full of repentant sinners. And, yes, those forgiven sinners will include former liars, drug addicts, adulterers, murderers, rapists, child molesters, alcoholics, blasphemers, thieves, and just all around forgettable people.

Just remember that there are 3 steps to repenting :
1) Confess your sin and truly feel sorry for committing the sin
2) Ask for forgiveness
3) Commit yourself to never do it again

[The Profit]

no.....not at all...
if what you say is true...i'll be rotting right there with you...




Fair enough

[KantoSooner]

[QUOTE=Jammin';3156699]I assume in doggie heaven they can pee on the couch, sleep on the bed and hump the cat. That's not really what I want them doing in my heaven. Bit of a quandry.


Couch? Yes
Bed? Yes
Cat? No, but only because there will be NO CATS IN HEAVEN.

But, since these are magical 'heaven couchs' and 'heaven beds', they will be cleaned and remade immediately by angels.

(which also explains why angels were so dam eager to take on missions to reeking hellholes like the classical Mid-East.
"Gabriel?",
"Yo, Chief!"
"What are you about today?"
"Just changing some pee soaked cushions, Father."
"How about dropping that and going to talk to some lepers in Sodom?"
"I'm your Angel, Sir!" dropping cushions and smirking at Moroni as the latter keeps on working.)

[Eielson]

Or do you think that it was all too little too late? So based on Dahmer I could never go to church and live however I want but get baptized a few days before I die and all will be good. I am curious what some think

It's never too late. You can theoretically not accept Christ until the very end of your life, but that's not the best plan. Accepting Christ isn't something you can just turn on and off whenever you'd like, and if you truly did accept Christ, you would never wish to completely turn it off.

*Baptism, as in just dumping water on someone's head and saying a few words, does not get someone into Heaven.

[Eielson]

For those who don't understand how Dahmer could get into Heaven, I think the parable of the workers in the vineyard is a pretty good explanation of why.

Essentially, a man goes out early in the morning to hire people to work in his vineyard. They agree on a price, and go to work. Every few hours he went out and hired more. He continued to do this until late in the day, and the final group ended up working only an hour. At the end of the day, he paid all his workers what he had agreed to. When those that had been working since early in the morning saw that those who only worked for an hour had gotten the same payment, they expected more. However, when the time came for them to be paid, they received the same, and grumbled. The man then answers that he has paid them what they agreed to, and has done them no wrong. He has the right do with his money whatever he chooses, and the workers should not be envious because he is generous.

*This is mostly off the top of my head, so it's not perfect, but you should be able to get the basic idea.

[87sooner]

very good post eielson.....
i don't know why anyone would have a problem with ANYONE receiving the gift of eternal life....

if you haven't heard of karla faye tucker....you should read up on her life..
she was convicted in texas for a gruesome murder....and sentenced to death...
while in prison she gave her life to Christ.....
she worked in prison ministry till the day she was executed...
family members of the people she killed asked the governor for her death sentence to be commuted...they had forgiven her and they knew she was truly a changed person...
in the end...gov. bush did not commute her sentence and she was executed....

[SoonerKnight]

is Jesus your Lord and Savior?
has God forgiven you?
you think you were "better" than dahmer BEFORE you accepted Christ (assuming you have)?

Dude. He ate dead people. Which is relative because he killed too!! My dog is better than him. My dog feels no hate!!

[SoonerKnight]

For those who don't understand how Dahmer could get into Heaven, I think the parable of the workers in the vineyard is a pretty good explanation of why.

Essentially, a man goes out early in the morning to hire people to work in his vineyard. They agree on a price, and go to work. Every few hours he went out and hired more. He continued to do this until late in the day, and the final group ended up working only an hour. At the end of the day, he paid all his workers what he had agreed to. When those that had been working since early in the morning saw that those who only worked for an hour had gotten the same payment, they expected more. However, when the time came for them to be paid, they received the same, and grumbled. The man then answers that he has paid them what they agreed to, and has done them no wrong. He has the right do with his money whatever he chooses, and the workers should not be envious because he is generous.

*This is mostly off the top of my head, so it's not perfect, but you should be able to get the basic idea.

One of the ten commandments thou shall not kill!! Kinda still applies right. I guess it was missing thou shall not kill and then eat other HUMANS!

[Scott D]

yeah he found religion at the end of a shiv up his ***. :rolleyes:

[lexsooner]

I recall he got his skull crushed by another inmate. Dahmer refused protective custody, so he probably just resigned himself to his fate (getting killed) in general population.

[Ike]

Silly question: Does it matter?

I'm actually kind of serious about that. There are probably some who will say "yes" and some who will say "no". There are others who will say "depends". But do any of them really know? I doubt it. Assuming there is a heaven, he either gets in or he doesn't, and whether that happens or not has nothing to do with what anyone here believes. So, does it really matter if he does or does not get in? As much as anyone would like to think he should or shouldn't, what would you do if it goes the other way?

Anyway, thats all you'll hear from this heathen.

[Blue]

I know that Dahmer killed a lot of people and did unforgivable things. We can reference every fairy tale story and pick out parts of bible verses that make us look smart. Seems a lot of you are wasting your time going to church on Sundays...

The whole "Dying on the cross thing" tells us that we are saved by grace.

The only unforgivable sin is rejecting that sacrifice and free gift.

[Eielson]

One of the ten commandments thou shall not kill!! Kinda still applies right. I guess it was missing thou shall not kill and then eat other HUMANS!

Yes, it is, and there are nine others, too. Nobody keeps them. That's why we all ask for forgiveness.

[AlboSooner]

IjW7bezdddE

[olevetonahill]

Shat is real simple If YOU are a believer, then IF he was truly repentant . YOU have to believe he will be in heaven with YOU.
If yer not then all bets are off , The dude may be smelling like burnt BBQ by now :rolleyes:

[SanJoaquinSooner]

I have faith in whatever Sic em Baylor thinks on this one.

[winout]

There is no one so bad that they cannot be saved. No one so good that they need not be saved.

[XingTheRubicon]

For those who don't understand how Dahmer could get into Heaven, I think the parable of the workers in the vineyard is a pretty good explanation of why.

Essentially, a man goes out early in the morning to hire people to work in his vineyard. They agree on a price, and go to work. Every few hours he went out and hired more. He continued to do this until late in the day, and the final group ended up working only an hour. At the end of the day, he paid all his workers what he had agreed to. When those that had been working since early in the morning saw that those who only worked for an hour had gotten the same payment, they expected more. However, when the time came for them to be paid, they received the same, and grumbled. The man then answers that he has paid them what they agreed to, and has done them no wrong. He has the right do with his money whatever he chooses, and the workers should not be envious because he is generous.

*This is mostly off the top of my head, so it's not perfect, but you should be able to get the basic idea.

the unions would never allow that