America's Best Interests...

[ouwasp]

That's really the only question that matters to me. Have they been served w/ Mubarak stepping down?

Only time will tell. If true democracy breaks out, we'll see. The road to hell is paved w/ good intentions. The masses over there may very well vote in an Ayatollah-type. If an Iranian Islamo-Facist state emerges, this is a disaster.

[2121Sooner]

It's ok.

We have our bowing, apologizing, Nobel Peace prize winner of a President to shephard us through this most insane time.


Him and the brotherhood will have a dialogue and we will be jusssssssssssssst fine.

[OUMallen]

Egypt having a functional, non-oppressive political system is in our interest.

[2121Sooner]

Israel being a little aggressive and armed with nuclear weapons is in our best interest.

[MR2-Sooner86]

If they start to be difficult, like cut off the Suez Canal, we can cut them off. Last I heard they import around 1/4 of their food from us. Unless they want to go shop around someplace else and deal with high prices for a while, they rely on us to an extent.

Personally, I think if they did do something like cut off the Suez Canal it'd be backlash because the West supports Israel in an armed confrontation. Like what OPEC did to us in the Six Day War.

[OUMallen]

Israel being a little aggressive and armed with nuclear weapons is in our best interest.

A two-state solution with Israel being LESS aggressive and respecting human rights would be in everyone's best interest. (Let them keep their nukes, though.)

[2121Sooner]

A two-state solution with Israel being LESS aggressive and respecting human rights would be in everyone's best interest. (Let them keep their nukes, though.)



What if we went with a THREE state solution, Israel being only slightly less agressive, but we have them have primary custody of their nukes?

[OUMallen]

Weekend visitations?

[yermom]

Egypt having a functional, non-oppressive political system is in our interest.

well, that's the question

do they actually get that at this point?

[2121Sooner]

Weekend visitations?

Now how come we can make so much progress in such a short time, and those folks over there cant get it together?


And by "those folks"...........yes.........I mean "those" folks.

[TUSooner]

Do you know what we can all personally do about it?

Jack.
****ing.
Squat.




:cool:

[JohnnyMack]

None of this matters. Once the caliphate is reestablished and we all bow at the foot of the new supreme leader Osama bin Laden we'll be nothing but white slaves sold out in an act of treason by Barack HUSSEIN Obama.

[Ike]

I think what's in our best interest now is to sit down and shut the hell up with respect to whats going on over there. Regardless of what kind of government comes to power there, or who is in it, there are going to be elements of egypt that don't like it. IMO, the easier it is for those elements to make the claim that we had a hand in installing that government, the easier it will be for them to rally support from people that may not otherwise support them.

In that regard, if it looks like an islamo-fascist government is going to take power there, maybe we can double-reverse-psychologize em, to make it look like this is what we wanted all along. Of course, that has the very real risk of also blowing up in our faces. (and for those of you with busted jokometers, no, I do not think we should double-reverse-psychologize).

[OUMallen]

Now how come we can make so much progress in such a short time, and those folks over there cant get it together?


And by "those folks"...........yes.........I mean "those" folks.

You and I oughta take on Israel/Palestine next. The wailing wall will be splitting holidays in no time. :D

[OUMallen]

I think what's in our best interest now is to sit down and shut the hell up with respect to whats going on over there. Regardless of what kind of government comes to power there, or who is in it, there are going to be elements of egypt that don't like it. IMO, the easier it is for those elements to make the claim that we had a hand in installing that government, the easier it will be for them to rally support from people that may not otherwise support them.


Bingo. We need to just leave it the hell alone.

[bigfatjerk]

I think we should send people there and show them how to make a democracy like we did in Germany after the wall fell. We should not just sit back and wait like we did with Iran 30 years ago. We are sending them 1.5 billion dollars a year to fund their army. We can't just leave them alone.

Now I agree we shouldn't sending billions of dollars to foreign regimes. But that's not my choice or anyone else's choice. Do you see either party taking away that money?

[Position Limit]

None of this matters. Once the caliphate is reestablished and we all bow at the foot of the new supreme leader Osama bin Laden we'll be nothing but white slaves sold out in an act of treason by Barack HUSSEIN Obama.

too funny. looks like you've been briefed on the fox news talking points for the week. as an internet diplomat myself, i think it's in amerika's best interest to dig up any member from the somoza family.... in true democratic fasion.

[TUSooner]

I think we should send people there and show them how to make a democracy like we did in Germany after the wall fell....


We did that!? How exacty did we do it? Were the "West" Germans involved at all?

whatever. I kinda doubt it would work in Egypt, because Arabs don't exactly love the USA and want to take orders from us. Plus, it's unclear that all the demonstrators even want democracy; they just want to get rid of Mubarak.

[Chuck Bao]

I agree. It is in the US best long-term interest to promote democracy abroad. We take the high road and remain a beacon of hope and freedom around the world. Or, do you think that the ship has already sailed on that one? In my opinion we either stand for something or we don't. If the latter, then the terrorists have already won.

[OUMallen]

We did that!? How exacty did we do it? Were the "West" Germans involved at all?

whatever. I kinda doubt it would work in Egypt, because Arabs don't exactly love the USA and want to take orders from us. Plus, it's unclear that all the demonstrators even want democracy; they just want to get rid of Mubarak.

I'm pretty sure they don't want to just be oppressed again. They want a democratic-republic. What do you think they want? To trade Mubby for another dictator with emergency powers for 20+ years?

[soonercruiser]

I think what's in our best interest now is to sit down and shut the hell up with respect to whats going on over there. Regardless of what kind of government comes to power there, or who is in it, there are going to be elements of egypt that don't like it. IMO, the easier it is for those elements to make the claim that we had a hand in installing that government, the easier it will be for them to rally support from people that may not otherwise support them.

In that regard, if it looks like an islamo-fascist government is going to take power there, maybe we can double-reverse-psychologize em, to make it look like this is what we wanted all along. Of course, that has the very real risk of also blowing up in our faces. (and for those of you with busted jokometers, no, I do not think we should double-reverse-psychologize).

Yes! "Leave it alone"....and then post on 2 paragraphs?
:rolleyes:

[JohnnyMack]

I'm pretty sure they don't want to just be oppressed again. They want a democratic-republic. What do you think they want? To trade Mubby for another dictator with emergency powers for 20+ years?

Iran did it.

[TUSooner]

I'm pretty sure they don't want to just be oppressed again. They want a democratic-republic. What do you think they want? To trade Mubby for another dictator with emergency powers for 20+ years?
Iran did it.


Iran did it.

What JM said. They may not want another Mubarak, but they might well want an "Islamic Republic" or a Hezb'allah-ish oligarchy-type dealio.
Of course, I don't say none of them want a western-style republic; maybe a great many of them do.

[OUMallen]

Iran did it.

They installed a theocracy. Not an effective dictatorship. It's a democratic theocracy for the most part that gets oppressive due to Islamic rules. Not due to the populace going- yeeeeah, I think we should have a dictator. Let's kick this monarch out for a dictator.

[okie52]

Just as long as they bring back stonings all will be well.

[JohnnyMack]

They installed a theocracy. Not an effective dictatorship. It's a democratic theocracy for the most part that gets oppressive due to Islamic rules. Not due to the populace going- yeeeeah, I think we should have a dictator. Let's kick this monarch out for a dictator.

Keep thinking that.

[OUMallen]

Keep thinking that.

Oh, I see. You know everything! That was easy! I'll stop learning about facts now. Whatever you say, cowboy. :texan:

[AlboSooner]

That's really the only question that matters to me. Have they been served w/ Mubarak stepping down?

Yes.

US policy in the middle east has always been stability and peace, regardless of there being democracy. Now you have democracy but no stability and peace hangs in the balance. Washington must be very jittery.

Egypt will be unstable for a long time. If we look at Eastern European countries which overthrew communism in the 1990, they are still poor, unstable, have fragile democracies and struggle to keep a balance between anarchy and democracy, while not having the weight of being a key country in the Middle East.

It took America 200 years, many lives lost, many mistakes to build the current democratic America. Egypt doesn't have that long.

[JohnnyMack]

Oh, I see. You know everything! That was easy! I'll stop learning about facts now. Whatever you say, cowboy. :texan:

Oh I don't know much, but I don't really think there's much difference in the oppression of a people just because they're called different things.

[Position Limit]

Yes.

US policy in the middle east has always been stability and peace, regardless of there being democracy.

wow that's a good one. how do you figure? where does this kind of stuff come from?

[AlboSooner]

wow that's a good one. how do you figure? where does this kind of stuff come from?

I don't want to turn this into a debate or hotly argued point.

1. Mubarak has enjoyed 30 years of US support, as long as he kept the peace with Israel and helped the US against the terrorists. Mubarak was a dictator who kept Egypt stable, and pro-US. So one could conclude that US policy with Egypt has been more keen on stability than on democracy. I don't believe there is much to argue about this point if you only take a look at the news today.
Bill O' Reilly said to the President, that Mubarak has a personal wealth of $2 Billion, which is a sum that Obama couldn't deny that it came mainly from 30 years of US tax-dollars.

2. You have the autocracy and monarchy of the equally ruthless regime in Saudi Arabia, which we keep safe with troops in Saudi Arabia, and military aid. We do this because under the king of Saudi, the country is stable and prosperous, but the country is not democratic.

3. Same thing goes for Jordan and its king.

4. We angered Iran with our support of the Shah in the 1970's, who was brutal to his people but kept Iran stable and pro-US.


Now, the facts are the facts, but I am not in the position to pass a moral judgment on this types of policy.

[yermom]

we even backed Saddam in the 80's

Israel was pro-Mubarak as well

[yermom]

Yes! "Leave it alone"....and then post on 2 paragraphs?
:rolleyes:

we should "leave it alone" as a country not message board posters

:rolleyes:

[soonercruiser]

Yes.

US policy in the middle east has always been stability and peace, regardless of there being democracy. Now you have democracy but no stability and peace hangs in the balance. Washington must be very jittery.

It took America 200 years, many lives lost, many mistakes to build the current democratic America. Egypt doesn't have that long.

Unfortunately, I have to agree that WE as a nation have kept our mouths shut for oil.

But, before the USA, there was no good example for the world to go by.
The American Revolution was a horrible price to pay. But, once we did it, we have made the road to freedom easily visible, and easier to "copy" for other nations. But, they must pay their own price, and made democracy fit their own heritage.
As in....many nations like in Europe, have not taken a very long period of time to "convert" to democracy.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Determining America's best interest is not easy.

As Chinese Premiere Zhou Enlai said when asked 150 years after the French Revolution what its impact was: "Too soon to tell."