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SoonerNate
2/4/2011, 05:16 PM
This man needs to be impeached NOW

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/8304654/WikiLeaks-cables-US-agrees-to-tell-Russia-Britains-nuclear-secrets.html#


The US secretly agreed to give the Russians sensitive information on Britain’s nuclear deterrent to persuade them to sign a key treaty, The Daily Telegraph can disclose.

pphilfran
2/4/2011, 05:20 PM
How to win friends and influence people...

SoonerNate
2/4/2011, 05:21 PM
This country needs a coup

okie52
2/4/2011, 05:25 PM
Hard to believe the US would do this to our best ally without some form of tacit approval on the Brits part.

Otherwise, ......

Veritas
2/4/2011, 05:50 PM
Hard to believe the US would do this to our best ally without some form of tacit approval on the Brits part.

Otherwise, ......
Well, given that Obama's goons have been told twice in the last week that their actions are unconstitutional, I don't see it as a stretch.

49r
2/4/2011, 05:53 PM
http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149129

delhalew
2/4/2011, 05:54 PM
Just make it stop please.

okie52
2/4/2011, 06:02 PM
Well, given that Obama's goons have been told twice in the last week that their actions are unconstitutional, I don't see it as a stretch.

I'll be interested to see the Brits response to this.

Midtowner
2/4/2011, 06:12 PM
Since Wikileaks happened, I hope any President would think twice before doing something so utterly dumb.

He has literally jeopardized our most important alliance to score political points on a treaty which the Russians will probably ignore anyhow.

KABOOKIE
2/4/2011, 06:24 PM
I say we listen to Oblama's advice to egypt and march on DC and demand his resignation along with all of the democrats in congress.

delhalew
2/4/2011, 06:52 PM
Every day something new with this @sshole. They really should just impeach the arrogant SOB before it can get any worse.

MR2-Sooner86
2/4/2011, 06:53 PM
I say we listen to Oblama's advice to egypt and march on DC and demand his resignation along with all of the democrats in congress.

You've been reported to Janet Napolitano.

AlbqSooner
2/4/2011, 08:40 PM
Every day something new with this @sshole. They really should just impeach the arrogant SOB before it can get any worse.

While this guy really pizzes me off, I keep having these nightmarish visions of 'President Biden'.:eek:

delhalew
2/4/2011, 09:23 PM
While this guy really pizzes me off, I keep having these nightmarish visions of 'President Biden'.:eek:

Lmao. It's one hell of a pickle.

cccasooner2
2/4/2011, 10:27 PM
I say we listen to Oblama's advice to egypt and march on DC and demand his resignation along with all of the democrats in congress.


Did you just say that Obama is near?

EnragedOUfan
2/4/2011, 10:51 PM
OK this is stupid. How credible is this? If I was to say "Obama was abducted by aliens", everyone would immediately believe it.

delhalew
2/4/2011, 11:06 PM
OK this is stupid. How credible is this? If I was to say "Obama was abducted by aliens", everyone would immediately believe it.

I'd have no trouble believeing you were abducted by aliens.

ouwasp
2/4/2011, 11:29 PM
While this guy really pizzes me off, I keep having these nightmarish visions of 'President Biden'.:eek:

Dad, is that you? No, can't be... he's never touched a computer...anyway...
As for the alien abduction scenario, let's see if our new Martian friends will also take the veep along...

SoCaliSooner
2/4/2011, 11:44 PM
It shouldn't be a surprise how he feels about the Brits. He sent the Winston Churchill bust back to them just weeks after his swearing in. They sent it to us right after 9/11.

Sooner_Havok
2/4/2011, 11:49 PM
Gobment does something under W

"DAMN GOBMENT, LEAST W IS KEEPIN' EM IN CHECK"

Gobment does something under Barry

"DAMN MUSLIM BAMA NEEDS TO BE UNPEACHED!!! HIM IS RUINING US COUNTRY!!!!!!!"

lol wut

SoonerNate
2/5/2011, 12:02 AM
Gobment does something under W

"DAMN GOBMENT, LEAST W IS KEEPIN' EM IN CHECK"

Gobment does something under Barry

"DAMN MUSLIM BAMA NEEDS TO BE UNPEACHED!!! HIM IS RUINING US COUNTRY!!!!!!!"

lol wut

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y215/FAUALUM29/kool.jpg

jkjsooner
2/5/2011, 12:22 AM
I'm not sure what to think about this. I will offer another perspective though.

Since the days of the Reagan administration we have signed various treaties to reduce our nuclear arsenals. One agreement was that we would share information about our nuclear capabilities. The British have been guilty of not playing along and have put into jeopardy these agreements.

The Russians would not sign these treaties unless they could be assured that the other side is playing fair. When the British refuses to go along, nuclear arms reduction is put into jeopardy.

One could argue the Brits have been obstructing progress, subverting our goals, and deserve what they got.

I don't know. Just a thought. I'll sleep on this and formulate my opinion tomorrow.



Edit: Please be kind. I'm just throwing things out to further discussion...

jkjsooner
2/5/2011, 12:30 AM
By the way, I think this thread breaks the board's rules:


Per the HMFIC, please do not post any links to Wikileaks mirrors or any even potentially sensitive material that has been shared by the people at Wikileaks.

A Sooner in Texas
2/5/2011, 12:32 AM
Is this the thread with the padded walls?

delhalew
2/5/2011, 12:34 AM
By the way, I think this thread breaks the board's rules:

Yes, bit until it gets deleated, here we are.

Skysooner
2/5/2011, 01:12 AM
If you don't understand history and that every President has done this in one form or fashion since Washington, you are naive as hell. The world is a rough place. Lots of stuff happens and most of it is dirty and ambiguous as hell. Get over your self-righteousness that only Obama did it and maybe you will understand what it means to be a part of this world.

delhalew
2/5/2011, 02:33 AM
If you don't understand history and that every President has done this in one form or fashion since Washington, you are naive as hell. The world is a rough place. Lots of stuff happens and most of it is dirty and ambiguous as hell. Get over your self-righteousness that only Obama did it and maybe you will understand what it means to be a part of this world.

Calm down, hot rod. It hasn't even been authenticated yet. Until then I'll say whatever I want about his excellency.

Skysooner
2/5/2011, 02:42 AM
Calm down, hot rod. It hasn't even been authenticated yet. Until then I'll say whatever I want about his excellency.

Doesn't matter whether it is has been authenticated or not. We are talking the real world and not fantasy. There is so much stuff that goes on behind the scenes that we are not privy to and really don't need to know. I'm just tired of all the rhetoric about everything. No, he isn't some perfect President, but stuff like this is a non-issue. The USA is an arrogant country. We have reason to be, but we also have many things to work out if we aren't going to be a third-world debtor come the mid-2000s.

jkjsooner
2/5/2011, 08:05 AM
If you don't understand history and that every President has done this in one form or fashion since Washington, you are naive as hell. The world is a rough place. Lots of stuff happens and most of it is dirty and ambiguous as hell. Get over your self-righteousness that only Obama did it and maybe you will understand what it means to be a part of this world.

I agree with this. Wikileaks didn't exist until recently so most of this stuff would never be found out. Plus, it's been reported in past that the US and British have been caught spying on each other. We are best friends but in the world of international politics that only goes so far.

In addition, I think my previous point has some validity. The British, by keeping their arsenal secret when the USA and Russia/USSR have gone to the point to allow inspectors to monitor the status of our nuclear warheads, have undermined our ability to promote our agenda. If you undermine uour interests in this way don't expect us to play fair at all times.

I'll also point out that this action was made to promote the best interest of the US. (If you don't think arms reductions is in our best interest then I suppose you could make that case with Reagan.) Undermining an ally when it is in your countries best interest is hardly treason. It's not like the authorities expected this information to come public.

Does this episode harm our interests? Of course. So does about half the stuff Wikileaks releases. Some of the other stuff actually involves crimes that have been committed - not dirty international politics.

Does this episode make us feel dirty? Yes, it does. It's not a point of pride for sure. Our leaders are going to have to realize that we're in a new era and it is much harder to keep secrets. The rules have changed and they better change quickly.

okie52
2/5/2011, 08:53 AM
If you don't understand history and that every President has done this in one form or fashion since Washington, you are naive as hell. The world is a rough place. Lots of stuff happens and most of it is dirty and ambiguous as hell. Get over your self-righteousness that only Obama did it and maybe you will understand what it means to be a part of this world.

Yeah, I'm sure other presidents have sold out our friends before. Doesn't mean it was right then and it doesn't mean it was right now. But, you seem good with it so it must be alright.

jkjsooner
2/5/2011, 10:07 AM
Yeah, I'm sure other presidents have sold out our friends before. Doesn't mean it was right then and it doesn't mean it was right now. But, you seem good with it so it must be alright.

I don't know that we're good with it. We just aren't going to impeach our President for doing something probably every administration has done.

Also that there are some details that haven't yet come out.

1. Are we giving serial numbers for every missile we have given them or just new ones?
2. Have we informed the British of this?

It might be that we're only giving information about new missiles and that the British have been informed. If that's the case then it's a non-issue. They don't have to accept our missiles. (I say #1 above because the NY Post article mentioned that this part isn't clear.)

I'll also point out some benefits of arms reduction and why it is in our best interest:

1. Maintaining a huge nuclear arsenal can be very expensive.
2. A reduction in arms (especially in Russia) reduces the probability that these arms can reach terrorists hands.
3. Both countries have plenty of nuclear weapons and missiles to deter any exchange of nuclear weapons. We went so crazy during the early stages of the cold war that both sides have orders of magnitude more missiles than would ever be needed.


In addition to all of this, I'll remind everyone that we're not providing any information that we and Russia don't provide about ourselves. In fact, we're only giving info about what we provided to England. They may have their own.

okie52
2/5/2011, 10:27 AM
I don't know that we're good with it. We just aren't going to impeach our President for doing something probably every administration has done.

Also that there are some details that haven't yet come out.

1. Are we giving serial numbers for every missile we have given them or just new ones?
2. Have we informed the British of this?

It might be that we're only giving information about new missiles and that the British have been informed. If that's the case then it's a non-issue. They don't have to accept our missiles. (I say #1 above because the NY Post article mentioned that this part isn't clear.)

I'll also point out some benefits of arms reduction and why it is in our best interest:

1. Maintaining a huge nuclear arsenal can be very expensive.
2. A reduction in arms (especially in Russia) reduces the probability that these arms can reach terrorists hands.
3. Both countries have plenty of nuclear weapons and missiles to deter any exchange of nuclear weapons. We went so crazy during the early stages of the cold war that both sides have orders of magnitude more missiles than would ever be needed.


In addition to all of this, I'll remind everyone that we're not providing any information that we and Russia don't provide about ourselves. In fact, we're only giving info about what we provided to England. They may have their own.

I was for the nuke reduction treaty so I understand the benefits but I wouldn't have sold out the Brits to get it done. I also said in an earlier post that I suspect the Brits had probably given some form of tacit approval for Obama to have done this. Of course, that assumption was giving Obama the benefit of the doubt and hoping that such underhanded, treacherous behavior was not done without some form of consent from our best ally.

If the info regarding the Brits was "secret" and such secrecy was agreed to by the US and the Brits then we betrayed them....no ifs, ands, or buts about it and any attempt to minimize Obama's actions as something less than treacherous under such an understanding would be shameful to say the least.

StoopTroup
2/5/2011, 12:37 PM
Thank goodness Nate let the cat outta the bag or Britian would be screwed.

jkjsooner
2/5/2011, 12:59 PM
If the info regarding the Brits was "secret" and such secrecy was agreed to by the US and the Brits then we betrayed them....

I don't get what you're saying. If we reached some type of secret deal with the Brits and this was revealed via information stolen and given to Wikileaks, how would that constitute a betrayal?

okie52
2/5/2011, 01:02 PM
I don't get what you're saying. If we reached some type of secret deal with the Brits and this was revealed via information stolen and given to Wikileaks, how would that constitute a betrayal?

If we had an agreement with the Brits to not divulge nuclear secrets between our 2 countries then giving that info to the russkies would be a betrayal.

Wiki's involvement has nothing to do with our integrity (or lack thereof).

2121Sooner
2/5/2011, 01:03 PM
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y215/FAUALUM29/kool.jpg

my sources tell me Obama prefers grape kool-aid to the red

Ton Loc
2/5/2011, 01:35 PM
Calm down, hot rod. It hasn't even been authenticated yet. Until then I'll say whatever I want about his excellency.

You know - most people would withhold judgment altogether until it was authenticated.

I see you're going with the guilty until proven otherwise. Very Bold.

Ton Loc
2/5/2011, 01:38 PM
If we had an agreement with the Brits to not divulge nuclear secrets between our 2 countries then giving that info to the russkies would be a betrayal.

Wiki's involvement has nothing to do with our integrity (or lack thereof).

Does your very limited knowledge of the facts, situation, and wildly drawn out baseless opinion all drawn on very little information that may or may not be true have anything to do with your integrity?

Just wondering...

jkjsooner
2/5/2011, 01:42 PM
If we had an agreement with the Brits to not divulge nuclear secrets between our 2 countries then giving that info to the russkies would be a betrayal.

Wiki's involvement has nothing to do with our integrity (or lack thereof).

Got it. I misunderstood what you meant when you said a secret between us and the Brits.

I was thinking about a scenario where we inform the Brits what we are going to do and, because it's a sensitive issue, both sides agree to not divulge this information to the public. The Brits could be pissed at us in private but still have political reasons to keep the issue out of the public's eye. Anyway, I thought that is what you were talking about...

okie52
2/5/2011, 01:46 PM
Does your very limited knowledge of the facts, situation, and wildly drawn out baseless opinion all drawn on very little information that may or may not be true have anything to do with your integrity?

Just wondering...

Oops. I withdraw my nasty remark.

okie52
2/5/2011, 01:54 PM
Got it. I misunderstood what you meant when you said a secret between us and the Brits.

I was thinking about a scenario where we inform the Brits what we are going to do and, because it's a sensitive issue, both sides agree to not divulge this information to the public. The Brits could be pissed at us in private but still have political reasons to keep the issue out of the public's eye. Anyway, I thought that is what you were talking about...

I am hoping that the Brits gave some form of consent or that this wasn't a big deal to them. Publicly the US and Brits will probably act like all is well so we may never know if this was really sensitive material or that posssibly the US was doing nothing more than confirming what the Russkies already knew. That is my hope but on the surface this doesn't look good.

Ton Loc
2/5/2011, 02:56 PM
Oops. I withdraw my nasty remark.

No need. Just saying everyone should calm down until we actually know something. It's bad for your health.

AlboSooner
2/5/2011, 06:24 PM
Hard to believe the US would do this to our best ally without some form of tacit approval on the Brits part.

Otherwise, ......

I agree. US and UK are closer than any of us imagine.

bluedogok
2/6/2011, 06:41 PM
my sources tell me Obama prefers grape kool-aid to the red
All good commies prefer red :D

delhalew
2/6/2011, 08:42 PM
You know - most people would withhold judgment altogether until it was authenticated.

I see you're going with the guilty until proven otherwise. Very Bold.

I'm talking smack on a clown. Tell me what he had for lunch, and I'll give him hell about it. He had his chance with me.

soonercruiser
2/6/2011, 10:03 PM
You know - most people would withhold judgment altogether until it was authenticated.

I see you're going with the guilty until proven otherwise. Very Bold.

Just curious...
What are we supposed to wait on being "authenticated"?
The story about what secret agreement we made with the Russians?
Or, the authenticity of the information/files leaked by Wikileaks?

We should wait until all the facts are in, for sure.
But, if the Brits didn't give consent, the story is damming. Just as it would be if any other Republican President and his administration betrayed an good ally like Great Britian.
Unless, I am wrong, Great Britian is a soverign nation, and they must have their own interest as their #1 priority. To agree with every wild *** negotiated agreement with the Russian would be very niave in of itself.
I hope that we are not arguing that the Russians are to be trusted over the Brits? Even Bush was a fool to believe them!

Ton Loc
2/6/2011, 11:21 PM
I'm talking smack on a clown. Tell me what he had for lunch, and I'll give him hell about it. He had his chance with me.

I see...and withdraw my previous statement.

Ton Loc
2/6/2011, 11:30 PM
Just curious...
What are we supposed to wait on being "authenticated"?
The story about what secret agreement we made with the Russians?
Or, the authenticity of the information/files leaked by Wikileaks?

We should wait until all the facts are in, for sure.
But, if the Brits didn't give consent, the story is damming. Just as it would be if any other Republican President and his administration betrayed an good ally like Great Britian.
Unless, I am wrong, Great Britian is a soverign nation, and they must have their own interest as their #1 priority. To agree with every wild *** negotiated agreement with the Russian would be very niave in of itself.
I hope that we are not arguing that the Russians are to be trusted over the Brits? Even Bush was a fool to believe them!

Hey - I wasn't talking to you. Don't apply my smart-assed replies meant for someone else to yourself.

(Here's yours)
I do appreciate your ability to fly off the handle with a wild multiple lined, multiple questioned, quickly written "curiosity" of my own opinion you formed off my two sentence reply to someone that isn't you. :P

The Profit
2/7/2011, 09:09 AM
Hey - I wasn't talking to you. Don't apply my smart-assed replies meant for someone else to yourself.

(Here's yours)
I do appreciate your ability to fly off the handle with a wild multiple lined, multiple questioned, quickly written "curiosity" of my own opinion you formed off my two sentence reply to someone that isn't you. :P




Brilliant post (both the first part and the finale'). Kudos to fine writing style and cleverly disguised wit.

Ton Loc
2/7/2011, 09:43 AM
Brilliant post (both the first part and the finale'). Kudos to fine writing style and cleverly disguised wit.

Thanks. (BTW - if you're going to leave me something at least let me know why)

OUMallen
2/7/2011, 10:19 AM
This country needs a coup

:rolleyes:

soonercruiser
2/8/2011, 11:38 PM
Hey - I wasn't talking to you. Don't apply my smart-assed replies meant for someone else to yourself.

(Here's yours)
I do appreciate your ability to fly off the handle with a wild multiple lined, multiple questioned, quickly written "curiosity" of my own opinion you formed off my two sentence reply to someone that isn't you. :P

Gee! Sorry!
I thought that it was a PUBLIC POST on a PUBLIC THREAD!
[Not a private message (pm) to a particular person.]
I was confused as to what needed authenticated before WE discuss it.
So I guess you don't know what it is we need to authenticate?

Seems to me Wiki leaked actual memos and files. They stand as "authenticated" as leaked and downloaded, don't they??
As far as flying off the handle, that seems to be your MO, not mine!

So, "carry on". Profit will undoubtedly enjoy the "smart-assed" replies.