A Scary Tragedy from Eastern Oklahoma's Past

[soonerhubs]

As I was doing some research on Camp Garland (near Locust Grove), I stumbled upon many websites, forums, etc., centered around the Girl Scout Murders.

If this is a sore spot for some, I apologize in advance. Growing up in the area, and actually attending Summer Camps across the highway from Camp Scott, I have been astounded and intrigued by this terrible incident in our history.

I asked Mom if she remembered what it was like during this time, and she mentioned the folks started locking their doors around Eastern Oklahoma as fear grew.

I asked my dad, and he mentioned that a work buddy told him (I know hearsay of hearsay) that G.L. Hart was set up as a scape goat.

There just seem to be so many unanswered questions in this true story.
Warning: There are many details described on some of these websites that may be disturbing, so please use discretion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_Girl_Scout_Murders

http://girlscoutmurders.com/

http://www.abandonedok.com/camp-scott/

http://girlscoutmurders.yuku.com/directory

http://community.aetv.com/service/displayDiscussionThreads.kickAction?as=119137&w=267379&d=343693

I'm going to look in the library for the Book written on the case (http://books.google.com/books?id=Q8722qxS-P0C&q=someone+cry+for+the+children&dq=someone+cry+for+the+children&hl=en&ei=irdKTZWZGY3pgAet0fgp&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAA).


On a side note: Abandoned Oklahoma's Project and Website in general has got to be one of the best ideas I've seen in a long time.

[OUEngr1990]

The one that still haunts me is the steak house killings.

[picasso]

As I was doing some research on Camp Garland (near Locust Grove), I stumbled upon many websites, forums, etc., centered around the Girl Scout Murders.

If this is a sore spot for some, I apologize in advance. Growing up in the area, and actually attending Summer Camps across the highway from Camp Scott, I have been astounded and intrigued by this terrible incident in our history.

I asked Mom if she remembered what it was like during this time, and she mentioned the folks started locking their doors around Eastern Oklahoma as fear grew.

I asked my dad, and he mentioned that a work buddy told him (I know hearsay of hearsay) that G.L. Hart was set up as a scape goat.

There just seem to be so many unanswered questions in this true story.
Warning: There are many details described on some of these websites that may be disturbing, so please use discretion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_Girl_Scout_Murders

http://girlscoutmurders.com/

http://www.abandonedok.com/camp-scott/

http://girlscoutmurders.yuku.com/directory

http://community.aetv.com/service/displayDiscussionThreads.kickAction?as=119137&w=267379&d=343693

I'm going to look in the library for the Book written on the case (http://books.google.com/books?id=Q8722qxS-P0C&q=someone+cry+for+the+children&dq=someone+cry+for+the+children&hl=en&ei=irdKTZWZGY3pgAet0fgp&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAA).


On a side note: Abandoned Oklahoma's Project and Website in general has got to be one of the best ideas I've seen in a long time.

There's a guy that works for my uncle at his car business. He told me once upon a time that he lived in that area and somehow was at the grave of GL Hart. This guys says he spit on his grave and said it wasn't in his normal character to do such things.
Later that day he was in a car wreck.:O

[olevetonahill]

I believed at the time Hart was guilty and i still do.
Now lets just hope an Pray they can someday catch the ****ers that killed the 2 little girls around Henryetta :mad:

[dwarthog]

Oh yeah, I remember this one all too well.

Read a great book on it, but being old and such, the title escapes me.

Too bad the dude died of a heart attack instead of getting fried like he deserved.

[soonerhubs]

I believed at the time Hart was guilty and i still do.
Now lets just hope an Pray they can someday catch the ****ers that killed the 2 little girls around Henryetta :mad:

I hope they catch them as well. It breaks my heart to hear of anyone's life cut short, particularly innocent children.

[StoopTroup]

I was thinking that Gene Leroy admitted he did it before he died

[sooner_born_1960]

I remember following the GLH trial, and, at the time, thinking the prosecution really didn't have any evidence.

[Canyonero]

"Someone Cry for the Children" is probably the book, read it a couple years ago. I have a number of family members in that area, none that actually helped him hide, but they were on his side.

The book goes into how many of the Indians viewed the white man's laws, the use of "medicine" and the stupid decisions of local law enforcement.

[Mississippi Sooner]

Oh yeah, I remember this one all too well.

Read a great book on it, but being old and such, the title escapes me.

Too bad the dude died of a heart attack instead of getting fried like he deserved.

You might be thinking of Someone Cry for the Children, which was written by Mike and Dick Wilkerson who were two of the lead investigators, as I recall. They laid out a very convincing case that Hart did it. I knew some Cherokee people who knew him and were convinced he was being used as a scapegoat, but just the circumstantial evidence was pretty overwhelming. Unfortunately, we didn't have DNA testing at the time.

As it turned out, my old high school baseball coach would wind up having a minor role in the case due to an old wedding photograph that was a key piece of evidence, but I don't remember exactly how. I need to get my hands on that book and read it again.

[Soonerson1975]

Lots of things about this case is just flat out creepy. How about one of the girls shoes later showing up on some steps to one of the camps buildings.

[olevetonahill]

I was thinking that Gene Leroy admitted he did it before he died

I dont think so Greg, Plus he was never convicted if I remember it right the case is still open :eek:

Yea I read " Cry" very compelling book

[btk108]

ST...no..he never admitted. Vet, I read that book too. Made aware what sick SOB's there are this world.

[Soonerson1975]

They tried to run some DNA testing a few years ago, but the samples was too old. The case is officially still open.

[StoopTroup]

I do know the incident really hurt scouting in our State for a very long time.

This went on for a very long time and hurt many people. I can't imagine being one of the Families involved. May God have mercy on them and continue to give them strength and healing.

It bothers me to this very day.

[swardboy]

I need to read up on this case. However, I was a youth minister at the time and our camp was in far SW Oklahoma. It really affected us...spooky.

[StoopTroup]

Wow. Soonerhubs links really bring it all back. In 1977 I was a HS Senior and very busy with School and Working part-time. My Dad quit letting my Brothers and my Sister go on trips with out an Adult he knew well, which basically put an end to it all.

I do now remember he wad aquitted. I remember his escape now and the later DNA tests that brought it back to mainstream news again. The case would seem to stay unsolved without any new proof that Gene or someone else did this horrible act.

[OUthunder]

I was only seven at the time but I remember my folks talking about it. I also remember reading tidbits online a couple of years ago. It's also always in the back of my mind when my kids ask me if they can join Girl or Boy Scouts. My answer has always been "no" and this incident only reminds me of why my kids will only go camping with me and will not be selling anything door to door.

Just a terrible act of evil by an evil human being or beings.

[cantwait48]

abandoned ok is a great web site, never knew anything about it before

I walked around the old Chilocco Indian School when I worked for the Ponca Tribe, very neat place, little creepy though as a few of the buildings were being used for some sort of drug addicts.

[stoopified]

I dont think so Greg, Plus he was never convicted if I remember it right the case is still open :eek:

Yea I read " Cry" very compelling bookAt the time of the killings Hart was hiding in the area after havingescaped custody while serving a series of long sentences for serial rape.After the inexplicable not guilty verdict he returned to prison where he had the heartattack and died.

I was in law enforcement and attended a seminar where this case was discussed.GLH had deformed sperm(corkscrewshaped) due to some disease.He(a convicted rapist) was loose in the area at the timeand the sperm found on the vctims was corkscrew shaped.Limited DNA at the time narrowed the suspects to someone of NativeAmerican DNA with corkscrewshaped deformed sperm.Hmmm,I wonder how GLH ever became a suspect? I have never understood why so many people insisted GLH couldn't possibly have done it.He was serial rapist for crying out loud,not a choirboy.

[JohnnyMack]

One of my Dad's good friends named Buddy Fallis was the prosecutor of this case. My Dad said Buddy never really recovered after losing this case, it literally broke his heart. Fallis and the investigators of this case have no doubt that GLH was the perp.

[soonerhubs]

I'm quite convinced GLH was guilty as well, but it seems that such a heinous act may require more than one perpetrator.

I'm not convinced that he acted alone, and that's what bothers me.

[ouwasp]

If you have a copy of Cry, a used book dealer told me it's worth quite a bit.

A few bits from a Mayes Co perspective...

My future wife was a Girls Scout that was at Camp Garland a couple weeks before the killings... spooky...

A Rainbo fellow that delivered to the store where I worked had a co worker whose daughter was supposed to be the 4th girl in the Death Tent. The girl came down with chicken pox just a few days before camp week.

A guy that has now passed, but used to go to my church, was on the jury. He felt bad about the verdict. But the "beyond the shadow of a doubt" angle is what swayed the jury to letting convicted rapist Gene Hart off for this crime.

The sheriff once told my Dad that Hart (while he was at Mayes Co. Jail) would be an absolute animal on nights when it was thunderstorming... he would masturbate and howl like a wolf, heedless of whether others were watching.

One's opinion of whether Hart was innocent or guilty was a hot-button issue for awhile. Usually one's opinion was identified with where they lived in the county and/or whether or not the person was Native American.

What a gruesome crime. I'm of the mind that Hart would have been convicted in about 5 minutes nowadays due to DNA testing.

[StoopTroup]

One of my Dad's good friends named Buddy Fallis was the prosecutor of this case. My Dad said Buddy never really recovered after losing this case, it literally broke his heart. Fallis and the investigators of this case have no doubt that GLH was the perp.

I think I remember hearing that too. Seems like everyone that was close to this was shocked that glh was aquitted. It's hard for me to think he wasn't guilty.

[Mississippi Sooner]

If you have a copy of Cry, a used book dealer told me it's worth quite a bit.



I just found that out for myself. I thought I'd like to read it again, so I went and checked on Amazon. Either $62 or $72 for a hardcover or $40 for the paperback. Are you kidding me?

[StoopTroup]

I was only seven at the time but I remember my folks talking about it. I also remember reading tidbits online a couple of years ago. It's also always in the back of my mind when my kids ask me if they can join Girl or Boy Scouts. My answer has always been "no" and this incident only reminds me of why my kids will only go camping with me and will not be selling anything door to door.

Just a terrible act of evil by an evil human being or beings.

As long as you can be a leader or a Parent that can be involved I'd have no problem anymore. Yeah it's scary especially when you know about this story but lots of kids have been through Scouts since then. We just can't let incidents like this ruin good programs like Scouts.

Every guy I know that made Eagle are really cool interesting folks as adults. I know some folks really put a stigma on the kids who are Scouts but I care about Kids and there just aren't many programs anymore that teach kids to be good citizens and use their brains to think things through. I'll continue to keep my Son in Scouts as long as I can. One of the best programs out there IMO.

[olevetonahill]

I just found that out for myself. I thought I'd like to read it again, so I went and checked on Amazon. Either $62 or $72 for a hardcover or $40 for the paperback. Are you kidding me?

Dayum , I may want to dig thru all my old books and see if I still have it

[soonerhubs]

The University Library has it here on noncirculating reserve. I may have to travel there for a weekend afternoon.

[Soonrboy]

I doubt that he died of a "heart attack" in prison.

[soonerchk]

I stayed at the part of the camp it all happened in the year before. It was the Quapaw section, and the tent was kind of out away from the rest of the camp.

And that was the last time I ever went to Girl Scout camp.

[Soonerson1975]

I stayed at the part of the camp it all happened in the year before. It was the Quapaw section, and the tent was kind of out away from the rest of the camp.

And that was the last time I ever went to Girl Scout camp.

The next year you started going to band camp right?

[captain_surly]

I was going to college in Tahlequah at the time. We were making regular excursions to the Cookson Hills Game Refuge and doing some caving around Marble City until the manhunt started. Hart was apparantly like Bin Laden, kind of hiding in plain sight. Some Cherokee friends of mine said half the people in Marble City knew where he was and were helping him. They all believed he was innocent.

I was shocked when he was acquited. When he died those same Cherokee friends were certain he was murdered.

[JohnnyMack]

When he died those same Cherokee friends were certain he was murdered.

Here's hoping they were right.

[SoCaliSooner]

A guy that has now passed, but used to go to my church, was on the jury. He felt bad about the verdict. But the "beyond the shadow of a doubt" angle is what swayed the jury to letting convicted rapist Gene Hart off for this crime.


There's the flaw. It's beyond a reasonable doubt.. Those are two very different things....

[unbiasedtruth]

I believed at the time Hart was guilty and i still do.
Now lets just hope an Pray they can someday catch the ****ers that killed the 2 little girls around Henryetta :mad:

actually it is Weleetka (sp) and I know exactly where this happened. Used to quail hunt back in the day (late 60's into the 80's) all around the town as my father was and I am good friends with a family there. I still have an open invite to come there any time I want to visit, hunt, fish whatever....

[2121Sooner]

I love the Samoa girl scout cookies.


They are delicious.

[SunnySooner]

I was a few years younger than the girls, living in Sequoyah county, and I just remember it all being so scary, we didn't think things like that could happen to us, that was a big city crime, not rural Oklahoma.

I saw a TV special on it a couple years ago, and they drew the parallels to the OJ case as to why Hart wasn't convicted--the defense turned it into a race issue, made some of the law enforcement look like bigots, etc.

Anyone remember Luther Anderson, killing 5 people that night in Muldrow, raping some women along the way as well? It was July 2, 1974, I was really little, but I have a very clear memory of my uncle coming to the door of our house with his deer rifle, telling my dad there was a killer on the loose. My dad and all of my other uncles all stayed awake that night with their rifles locked and loaded.

Anderson was finally caught in the small nursing home in town, right across from the school, hiding in the bed of the mother of one of his victims. Weird.

[MR2-Sooner86]

I'll weigh in on this, seeing as how I live a mile from where it happened. Yes, for those who don't know, Locust Grove is my hometown. So, I know a whole lot about this.


Anyway, Gene Leroy Hart more than likely did not kill the girls. How do I know?

The first is that there were clues to a person or people hanging around the camp. There was a note left saying there would be a murder of three of the campers and signs of people breaking into things. Now, Hart at the time was hiding with some family down south around Peggs. Why would he travel up around Locust Grove as the camp is only two miles out of town and risk getting caught?

Three girls were killed in a short amount of time. We're talking about maybe an hour. How can one man rape and kill three girls by himself and drag them 150 away from their tents? It's possible but very hard for one man to pull it off.

He had a history of rape but murder and being a pedophile? There is no history with him and little girls. If he was a pedophile, I doubt murdering and raping three little girls would be his very first case.

The "evidence" they found was some of Hart's belongings in a cave not too far from the camp. These belongings were from the safe in the jail he escaped from. Now let me ask you this, if you're escaping from prison do you think you're going to go find the safe, try to break it open, and get some of your stuff from it? Seems like a big hassle if you ask me.

Also, when Hart was named as the suspect, the Indians living around the area at the time got very scared. A posse was rounded up at the Locust Grove football field. Around a couple hundred people showed up, armed, and were ready to go looking for Hart. At the time, all Indians looked alike, and there was still a little racism so of course the Indians were scared to death.

Finally, take this however you like, but the Cherokees at the time smoked Hart. In case you're not familiar with Cherokees and "smoking" it's their form of magic. They said if he was guilty he would pay for his crime. He died in prison a short time later.

Now, as for the investigation.

The sheriff in charge at the time, Pete Weaver, was a grade A dumbass. The night of the murders one of the police officers, Harold Berry, who was first to the scene told the sheriff to close the place off. They needed to get everybody out, shut the place down, and start getting evidence. Pete Weaver, the egomaniac he was, told him no and instead had paramedics walking around the woods looking for the murder weapons and did a p*ss poor job of conducting the investigation. He saw the murders as a way to really boost his career which is why many believe he framed Hart so he could get a suspect.

Now as for the book Somebody Cry for the Children, it's trash. I've read it and when you peg a small town as hillbillies that hide behind trees watching people from Tulsa ride their boats on the lake, you're automatically discredited. Also, the fact they alluded to Gene Leroy Hart turning into a cat was just silly.

If anybody has any questions, feel free to ask and I can probably find out for you.

[JohnnyMack]

A GLH apologist. Perfect.

[Turd_Ferguson]

The one that still haunts me is the steak house killings.The Sirloin Stockade at 74th and Penn? I was there the next morning in the TG&Y parking lot and watched them bring out all the body's. I think I was 10 at the time. Cool thing was, I got invited and went to the DRT party at the FOP back in 95 when he was executed.

[OUHOMER]

I scanned some of the links provided, And i didn't see what evidence that Hart did it. What did I miss. no fingure prints, no murder weapon, So what was the main evidence they had on Hart?

[MR2-Sooner86]

A GLH apologist. Perfect.

Eat my *** with a spoon and go **** your dad in the face.

Did I call him a saint? No, I'm not like many Indians in this area who look at him as a martyr. I said there were too many "what ifs" in the case to make me believe he was guilty 100% without a shadow of a doubt. Could he have done it? Sure, but if he did he wasn't alone.

The people of this town wanted the person or people who did this brought to justice and they don't feel they got that. Why? They felt the whole thing turned into a political grandstand and showboating.

If evidence came out tomorrow proving he was guilty and he did it alone and we can all rest I'd have no complaints and would welcome it.

Think before you speak out your ***.

[JohnnyMack]

Eat my *** with a spoon and go **** your dad in the face.

Did I call him a saint? No, I'm not like many Indians in this area who look at him as a martyr. I said there were too many "what ifs" in the case to make me believe he was guilty 100% without a shadow of a doubt. Could he have done it? Sure, but if he did he wasn't alone.

The people of this town wanted the person or people who did this brought to justice and they don't feel they got that. Why? They felt the whole thing turned into a political grandstand and showboating.

If evidence came out tomorrow proving he was guilty and he did it alone and we can all rest I'd have no complaints and would welcome it.

Think before you speak out your ***.

Gene Leroy Hart raped and murdered those girls. Period.

I'm sorry for calling you an apologist. That was out of line.

[ouwasp]

Technically the case is still open. But I saw a news report a few yrs ago where an OSBI agent said the agency is satisfied the perp was identified, and that he was no longer a threat, as he is deceased.

[MR2-Sooner86]

Gene Leroy Hart raped and murdered those girls. Period.

If he really did do it and acted alone, great.

However, if evidence came out he had help, I wouldn't be surprised at all. A couple of people who were there that I talked to said the way things were, they felt there were two or three guys who pulled off everything. If true, that means there's still some guilty people out there and that's the sad. Those girls deserved justice.

If justice was served though and the man who did it is dead, great.


I'm sorry for calling you an apologist. That was out of line.

And I'm sorry for snapping at you. As I said, this is my town and it is a dark spot on it so I take this a little too personal at times.

[StoopTroup]

It's been a lot of years and another type of murder has never happened. As far as GLH being a martyr....dying in prison for other crimes really doesn't qualify a guy for Martyrdom IMO.

John Grisham's "Innocent Man" is a True Story about a guy who at one time had it all and later became a real piece of work. Ron Williamson would seemingly have been tried of murder wrongly and while in prison he was abused and his mental condition not treated properly and he shouldn't have probably been on Death Row....but...his being an Ex-Yankee Ball player probably bought him out of many situations other folks would have gone to Prison over. Had he not been given the slack....his being put on Death Row might not have happened. It's all conjecture of course because what was done couldn't be undone.

Now GLH....he should have tried to stay out of prison if he liked to howl. Prison isn't a good place to make yourself a target. He made himself a target his whole life and it would seem it cost him dearly if he was innocent of the Girl Scout Murders.

Bottom-line....once the murders stopped and he was in prison and then died....it never happened again. Without DNA....I find it odd that anyone take a hard-line that he was innocent or guilty.

Thankfully it just never happened again.

Since it didn't happen again and it's been 30 years...I have a feeling the girls will find justice soon if there were other people involved. It might have already happened. God will fix them.

[AlbqSooner]

I was an attorney practicing in Pryor, the County seat of Mayes County during this time. I assisted the two attorneys who defended GLH with some outside the courtroom stuff like helping them find a place to office leading up to and during the trial, giving them information on how to get to various locations, and, after the trial, following one of them as far as Tulsa to make sure the local law enforcement did not bother them getting out of town. They had become hated by local law enforcement because of their defense. The lawyers were Garvin Isaacs in his first big case after leaving the Oklahoma County Public Defender's office and Gary Pitchlynn, who worked with Garvin at the Public Defender' office.

I watched this case closely as it developed and followed much of the testimony and presentation of evidence during the trial. Despite the statment by Johnny Mack that "Gene Leroy Hart raped and murdered those girls, period.", I cannot be as certain as he. However, I feel confident that he has better insight to the investigation than do I.

MR2 raises some points that are well made. However, Pete Weaver was NOT a dumbarse. Although his policing techniques were based on another time's state of the art, he was a very saavy Sheriff and a damn fine cop. He was also a good man. Pete was so close to retirement at the time of these murders that he could hardly be said to have been boosting his career. He did not frame GLH in my opinion.

Hart had escaped from the Oklahoma State Penetentiary in McAlester and had been on the lam for a couple of years when this happened. He apparently had been living in and around Mayes County the entire time. Many Cherokees felt no obligation to notify "White" law enforcement that he was there. When this happened and the investigation turned into a circus, with camo-clad ex viet nam vets volunteering to scour the woods of Mayes County, Gene apparently left the area. He was arrested with little incident at the cabin of Sam Pigeon, a Cherokee spiritual man near Welling which is just outside of Tahlequah.

The thing about this case from a trial standpoint is that the evidence presented made it look like perhaps GLH either was the person who did this, or was somehow involved. However, the evidence was so botched and the investigation (by not only Mayes County, but also the OSBI) was so focused on only GLH from the beginning that there were serious and numerous questions left unresolved for the jury. Given that fact alone, the jury was obligated by their oath to resolve those reasonable doubts in favor of the defendant and find him not guilty.

Finally, although some tunnel visioned, pro law enforcement, hang em high types, as well as some people who had no idea what the evidence was, were shocked at the verdict, neither I nor many of the people who observed the proceedings were overly surprised.

I did get to meet and become nodding acquaintances with the parents of the victims and my heart breaks for them to this day. I also suspect that GLH either did this or was involved. I believe, however, that the verdict was correct in that the case was not proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

[AlbqSooner]

Oh yeah, the attorneys for whom I worked in Pryor when I first got out of law school and I were the first attorneys of record for Roger Dale Stafford who was executed for the Sirloin Stockade murders at 74th and Penn. We were on the case for about 6 weeks when the family caved on paying us so we withdrew. There are a LOT of interesting things about that case that made it potentially winnable. However, I believe that the jury in that case delivered the correct verdict as well.

[olevetonahill]

Thanks for the insight Albq.I bet you have more knowledge on this than any of the rest of us.

Yea I dint think at the time the case tried that they would convict. But in my gut i still believe he was guilty;)

[oumartin]

I remember my mom pulling my sister from girl scouts over this. I was like 4 at the time but I remember it.

also, reading over the links hubs provided I saw where they said the medical examiner said they were not raped. Seems to be a serial rapist would at least rape them.

[soonerhubs]

This has had some very insightful posts. Thanks for all those who shared their experiences.

[GDC]

At the time, all Indians looked alike, and there was still a little racism so of course the Indians were scared to death.

WTF?

[tulsaoilerfan]

Those girls were just a little bit younger than me when this happened; hard to believe it's been that long ago and that those girls should all be in their early 40's with kids and grandkids by now

[picasso]

abandoned ok is a great web site, never knew anything about it before

I walked around the old Chilocco Indian School when I worked for the Ponca Tribe, very neat place, little creepy though as a few of the buildings were being used for some sort of drug addicts.

I was there two years ago taking pics for an art project. There's stiff security there now and I'm told gov folks like Blackwater do training there at night.
btw my mom graduated from chilocco in '48.:)

[Serenity Now]

WTF?Being one of MANY "part" Indians in Eastern Oklahoma I'd say that, until you walked in a real Indian's shoes you should, with all due respect, STFU. I look at it similarly to the mascot issue. It doesn't offend the 1/4 Indian of me that was raised in the mainstream. But, if there's a group of people raised Indian (reservation Indians as an example) who are offended I'll defer to them. Just like I'll defer to a descendent of slaves offended by the rebel flag. I've not walked any distance in their shoes. It's called being respectful of others and their specific sensitivities. Also, thirty years ago Eastern Oklahoma wasn't such a welcoming place for minorities.

I read that book. Great read. I think Alb. is closer than any of us to that situation and has a good take on it. The theory that GLH used the medicine for bad things and it came back on him was great "kharma".

[picasso]

GDC is Native American.:cool:

[MamaMia]

I'll weigh in on this, seeing as how I live a mile from where it happened. Yes, for those who don't know, Locust Grove is my hometown. So, I know a whole lot about this.


.................

If anybody has any questions, feel free to ask and I can probably find out for you. I vaguely remember this crime. I often wondered if as a Girl Scout, whether I was ever at that camp. There were so many. What was the actual Girl Scout camp called? I do remember that we went to a camp called Cookie Land a lot.

[Soonrboy]

I was there two years ago taking pics for an art project. There's stiff security there now and I'm told gov folks like Blackwater do training there at night.
btw my mom graduated from chilocco in '48.:)

My mom went to Chilocco about the same time. She quite going after 8th grade though.

[MR2-Sooner86]

WTF?

Yup, they were going after an Indian and to many of the "country boys" they were all the same looking with their brown skin and thick dark hair. Unless you've been to an Indian school, Indian gathering, or whatever and seen them together, you wouldn't really get it how the 'good ole boys' look at them.

You also have to understand this place is close to the heart of the Cherokee Nation and there are a whole lot of white folk around here who don't take too kindly to Indians. It's not that bad anymore but it use to be especially when this happened.


What was the actual Girl Scout camp called?

Camp Scott.

[picasso]

I don't find it all that hard to fathom a grown man strangling 3, 8-10 yr old girls during a loud thunderstorm.
Ted Bundy killed and raped a couple of co-eds in their sorority house in less than an hour.

[Salt City Sooner]

I don't find it all that hard to fathom a grown man strangling 3, 8-10 yr old girls during a loud thunderstorm.
Ted Bundy killed and raped a couple of co-eds in their sorority house in less than an hour.
Bundy was one I was thinking of, & another was Dennis Rader, who started out his crime wave up here by strangling 4 members of the Otero family, & although he never raped any of his victims, investigators of that first scene said that there was enough semen by Josie's feet for a half dozen ejaculations.

[olevetonahill]

Being one of MANY "part" Indians in Eastern Oklahoma I'd say that, until you walked in a real Indian's shoes you should, with all due respect, STFU. I look at it similarly to the mascot issue. It doesn't offend the 1/4 Indian of me that was raised in the mainstream. But, if there's a group of people raised Indian (reservation Indians as an example) who are offended I'll defer to them. Just like I'll defer to a descendent of slaves offended by the rebel flag. I've not walked any distance in their shoes. It's called being respectful of others and their specific sensitivities. Also, thirty years ago Eastern Oklahoma wasn't such a welcoming place for minorities.

I read that book. Great read. I think Alb. is closer than any of us to that situation and has a good take on it. The theory that GLH used the medicine for bad things and it came back on him was great "kharma".


GDC is Native American.:cool:

Heh, with all due respect, STFU, Until you know who you are talking to. ****in nOObs :rolleyes:

[btk108]

I was an attorney practicing in Pryor, the County seat of Mayes County during this time.

Did you get to witness Sunny in her HS cheerleader outfit?

[olevetonahill]

Did you get to witness Sunny in her HS cheerleader outfit?

Sunny wernt even borned then , Plus wrong county :P

[btk108]

pfffffffffttt.....he said he was practicing in Pryor and pretty sure until 83....so nanner, nanner, nanner

[olevetonahill]

pfffffffffttt.....he said he was practicing in Pryor and pretty sure until 83....so nanner, nanner, nanner

Sunny woulda been about 12 er so then , Plus still wrong County Fer HER Pay Tention :P

[btk108]

wait, what?

[olevetonahill]

wait, what?

;) On the age thing
and sunny was raised in Muldrow thats over here close to me :hot:

[btk108]

heh..I know that.....but see what I did there

[BudSooner]

I vaguely remember this crime. I often wondered if as a Girl Scout, whether I was ever at that camp. There were so many. What was the actual Girl Scout camp called? I do remember that we went to a camp called Cookie Land a lot.Camp Scott, the boys camp is down acros hwy 82 called camp Garland.
Scott is now owned by two or three brothers(someone told me they are distant family of GLH)who if you try to enter the property will shoot on sight...not that I would mind you.

The camp is 1 mile from the wife's cousins house, that area always leaves me cold when visiting them since the road we go down is Earbob Rd...the south entrance to the camp is on that road.



Side note, there is a great swimming hole just past the church at the Scott turnoff, it's cold water even mid summer, GDC do you know of it? It feeds into Snake Creek.

[AlbqSooner]

That swimming hole is, I believe, Saline Creek. If it is the place I am thinking of it is a great swimming hole but only on a scorching hot day.

[MR2-Sooner86]

Scott is now owned by two or three brothers(someone told me they are distant family of GLH)who if you try to enter the property will shoot on sight...not that I would mind you.

Rowland still owns the land and he once had a gas station that was built at the very edge of the camp on highway 82. He won't shoot you but the cops will get called on you.


Side note, there is a great swimming hole just past the church at the Scott turnoff, it's cold water even mid summer, GDC do you know of it? It feeds into Snake Creek.

Probably Spring Creek you're thinking of as it's cold even in the middle of the summer. Are you thinking about Twin Bridges? If not there's another hole just up stream with a couple of swings tied to trees.

[Serenity Now]

Heh, with all due respect, STFU, Until you know who you are talking to. ****in nOObs :rolleyes: so? I've not researched posters racial make up. I was responding to a "wtf" with some an alternative point of view.

[soonerhubs]

I vaguely remember this crime. I often wondered if as a Girl Scout, whether I was ever at that camp. There were so many. What was the actual Girl Scout camp called? I do remember that we went to a camp called Cookie Land a lot.

They mention a cookie trail on one of the websites.

[AlbqSooner]

Probably Spring Creek you're thinking of as it's cold even in the middle of the summer. Are you thinking about Twin Bridges? If not there's another hole just up stream with a couple of swings tied to trees.

Spring Creek is what I was thinking of. Saline Creek is up by Spavinaw.

[oumartin]

Saline Creek is up by Spavinaw.

Spanivaw, Michigan? ;)

[olevetonahill]

so? I've not researched posters racial make up. I was responding to a "wtf" with some an alternative point of view.

**** off dip ****
;)

[Curly Bill]

so? I've not researched posters racial make up. I was responding to a "wtf" with some an alternative point of view.


...and I thought you were just being a dumas. ;)

[BudSooner]

Yeah, it's spring creek...colder than I imagined it would be that's for sure.

[jthomasou78]

A couple of random thoughts Ive had about this case....

First, can you imagine the media spectacle if this had happened today. Nancy Grace would have had a field day with this. Its amazing what a difference 30 years can make in a society.

Second, I was always amazed there was not a movie based on this case. A horrific crime, and native american black magic used by both law enforcement and the defendent (if you believe the Someone Cry for the Children book).

Finally, I graduated from Broken Arrow High School in 1996. The mother of Lori Farmer was an Assistant Principal there. I was an aide in the Principals office and I was doing a report on the murders for my Oklahoma History class, I was reading Someone Cry for the Children when she walked in. I didnt know that her daughter was murdered at the camp. She started to cry and quickly went into her office. The secretary explained to me the situation. Maybe the smallest I have ever felt in my life.