Rating oklahoma h.s. football

[cyclonesooner]

Just wondering how the truly knowledgeable high school football fans in oklahoma feel about the current quality of football played in Oklahoma ? Is it as strong as it was 10, 20, 30 years ago. Sure, the top level teams and top recruits are as good or better than ever as they should be with seemingly better coaching and off season programs. As a high school football coach in Oklahoma in the late 70's and in Texas from the 80's till 2010, I have certainly noticed a dropoff in the number of schools who play really quality football. What is your opinion ?

[madillsoonerfan5353]

:gary:

[fwsooner22]

Just wondering how the truly knowledgeable high school football fans in oklahoma feel about the current quality of football played in Oklahoma ? Is it as strong as it was 10, 20, 30 years ago. Sure, the top level teams and top recruits are as good or better than ever as they should be with seemingly better coaching and off season programs. As a high school football coach in Oklahoma in the late 70's and in Texas from the 80's till 2010, I have certainly noticed a dropoff in the number of schools who play really quality football. What is your opinion ?

Wow, dude how do you hink that is going to play in this forum.

How many Oklahoma high school football games you been to recently ? I live in Fort Worth and still catch a game in Lawton every other year or so. Let me tell ya its darn good football.

[texaspokieokie]

i saw a game in Morris, 6 to 8 yrs ago.

they were gud.

saw a game in okmulgee about 03 or 04. was so good we left @ the half & went to the Elks Lodge.

[fwsooner22]

wow

[reevie]

Oklahoma High School football has produced two Heisman winners recently

[Eielson]

Oklahoma high school football sucks. It's the same every year. Jenks vs. Union. Even Lawton couldn't mess that up this year. 6A is so lopsided that it's not even worth paying attention to.

[PLaw]

I would imagine the Oklahoma HS football would be very comparable to the level of play in the DFW metroplex area high schools.

I would love to see a Jenks / Trinity or a Union / Allen match up.

BOOMER

[SteelClip49]

I find it funny that neither Jenks or Union has won the High School Football National Championship ever.

2 Oklahoma schools have pulled off the feat:

1933 Capitol Hill OKC & 1990 Lawton Eisenhower

[picasso]

Oklahoma high school football sucks. It's the same every year. Jenks vs. Union. Even Lawton couldn't mess that up this year. 6A is so lopsided that it's not even worth paying attention to.

Wow, you mentioned one class.

[PDXsooner]

Oklahoma high school football sucks. It's the same every year. Jenks vs. Union. Even Lawton couldn't mess that up this year. 6A is so lopsided that it's not even worth paying attention to.

That's what happens when you allow schools to grow to 3 and 4 thousand without splitting. Moore, Edmond, Norman, Lawton...all these places have added a few more high schools, but Jenks likes to dominate in football.

Like I've said, if you allowed Lawton to combine all 3 high schools Jenks and Union would have a third school right in their category.

[cyclonesooner]

Having grown up and coached in southwest Oklahoma during the 1970-80's, I thought the football played in that area was pretty solid. After watching this year's 6A final on FoxSW I heard the announcer state that a state champion had not come from the western region since the 1990's ? I didn't really think that either of the 6A finalists could defeat either Texas 4A finalist. I used to think that the top Oklahoma schools in all classifications could compete with or defeat those of the same size in Texas. I used to really enjoy watching Lawton High tee it up with Eisenhower and MacArthur, but coaching buddies in the Lawton area tell me the talent in those schools has declined pretty severely. Is that not true ?

[Sooner_Tuf]

I think it has changed a lot in the last 35+ years. The top level athletes are probably better. The average kid probably isn't as good. Kids overall aren't as tough or as fit as they once were. They are bigger but for most of them it is blubber and they aren't as athletic as once upon a time.

I think coaching has changed also. The bigger districts have enough money to hire good dedicated coaches and hopefully support them. But many school districts don't have the money anymore and make coaches teach other classes which cuts into the time they have for sports.

Probably the cost of living as well as the higher standard of living has had its effect also. Used to be a lot of coaches just got by and were dedicated to their craft and their team. Today it costs so much to live many of those driven individuals just aren't coaching high school ball anymore.

I would guess the best teams are probably better then back then but overall high school ball is not as good as it once was. That is not an absolute statement but it is fair from what I have seen.

You can still catch some highly entertaining games though.

[Peach Fuzz]

Wow, you mentioned one class.

I think one of the metro teams won it in '95. MWC or something. Saw that on Rivals/Scout last year.

[SteelClip49]

One of the best rivalries in the state, Yukon vs. Mustang will soon challenge the greatness of the Union/Jenks rivalry.

It's big time here so lookout!

[CowboyMRW]

I like 8 man football. It's so fast and fun to watch

[adoniijahsooner]

I remember during my time in high school, and seeing guys like Marcus Nash, D Parker, Jonathon Brown, Ryan Humphery, Aaron Lockett, Mcquarters, Eric Bernard, and many others that were pretty good football players come out of the state of Oklahoma. Oklahoma is starting to get poached by Texas now as well....I think the op is waayyyy off.

[lexred]

Oklahoma kids are just a tough as anyone. It is absurd to think that the kids in Denton, Texas are tougher than those in Ardmore, OK. Now, Texas has a tremendous edge in sheer numbers. A lot of us like to point fingers at Jenks, Union, and BA for the size of the schools, but in Texas 5A those size schools are common. The large school districts pay their coaches very well and in Texas they don't have to teach. Even in some of the smaller classes the successful coaches are "recruited" and well paid. I also think that in most cases the off season programs in Texas are better than those in Okla. JMHO

[pphilfran]

Oklahoma High School football has produced two Heisman winners recently

And two Outland winners...both from Lawton...Shields is a little far back,1992...

[Eielson]

Wow, you mentioned one class.

I mentioned 6A. Going much below 5A isn't much worth watching, and even if you wanted to, it's the same story. All the private schools dominate everybody in the lower levels because they get to choose who comes there.

[Sooner Tri]

Having a son who will graduate this year from PC North and who started on their football team this year, I would have to say the talent level at 6A is still very good. We have watched thrilling games these past four years! And I would agree that Mustang and Yukon are building some great programs too!

[Eielson]

One of the best rivalries in the state, Yukon vs. Mustang will soon challenge the greatness of the Union/Jenks rivalry.

It's big time here so lookout!

East>>>>>West

[MrJimBeam]

Oklahoma high school football is better than it's ever been and that includes the coaching. Compare the scores and stats being put up in all classes now to those from 20-25 years ago. Oklahoma was not only a rush first state but a rush only state. Go to any high school game and you will see dynamic and exciting football. I would say Oklahoma is in the top 15 as far as our quality of high school football.

[Shakadoodoo]

I remember during my time in high school, and seeing guys like Marcus Nash, D Parker, Jonathon Brown, Ryan Humphery, Aaron Lockett, Mcquarters, Eric Bernard, and many others that were pretty good football players come out of the state of Oklahoma. Oklahoma is starting to get poached by Texas now as well....I think the op is waayyyy off.

You must of only went to BTW football games.....

[Peach Fuzz]

I would say we compete with anyone from 5a up. Under 5a only theres only a handful of teams that are good, mostly private and my hometime Clinton. I only lost 3 games since 7th grade in clinton :D

[bmrsnou]

I have been to many HS football games over the past 15 years. I lived in Moore until this last season. (I moved to Blanchard this year, ugh!) But my boys and I went to all the different High Schools in Moore and saw some pretty good football. One of the best games I had seen in the last few years was the Moore-Mustang game when Cooper was playing for Mustang. The game was like 70-56. Another game was the Westmoore (my alma mater) and Norman game when Broyles was there and it was 1 vs 2. Great times.

All that said, I think that Oklahoma HS football is a much better product than when I played back in the late 80's. 6A aside, the other classes have some pretty good talent. Think about it, Lofton was from Kingfisher, Lewis is from Dewar (an 8 man school.) There is some great talent in this state.

I do agree with the east-west argument. The schools on this side of the state don't stand a chance. The fan support seems to have really dwindled in 6A on the west side with the splitting of schools. I do have to say though, 3A games on friday night were pretty entertaining.

But, IMHO, we get a bad rap here in OK simply because of geography. Look at how many kids go to D1 schools. For a smaller population, we do pretty good. Granted, not every kid who is a D1 player is going to OU, but we turn out our fair share. I would say that overall, the level of play is much better than it used to be.

[Shakadoodoo]

I think there are very good football players that come out of Oklahoma for sure but.... I don't think Union or Jenks would go very far in the playoffs in TX.

[Sooner74]

I don't think comparing Oklahoma and Texas HS football is fair. Oklahoma just wouldn't compete with some of the best HS teams in Texas. 6a may be great and put a good product on the field, but relative to other football in other states, it is mediocre at best.

[Lawton4Life]

A Latwon All Star team would dominate the state.

[Shakadoodoo]

A Latwon All Star team would dominate the state.

Maybe if it was a 40 year old and up league. lol Lawton ain't won nothing since the late 80's.

[cyclonesooner]

Thanks Sooner Tuf. I certainly agree with all of the points you made and that was the point I was trying to make was that overall the quality of football wasn't as good. I coach in a large 4A school in Texas and some of the players receiving scholarships from our school wouldn't have started in my class A backfield or secondary on my class A Okie high school and I've heard similar stories from coaches in Oklahoma.

[Eielson]

A Latwon All Star team would dominate the state.

Not really.

[Eielson]

I think there are very good football players that come out of Oklahoma for sure but.... I don't think Union or Jenks would go very far in the playoffs in TX.

I'd take Jenks/Union against the majority of other states' top two teams.

[OUmillenium]

That's what happens when you allow schools to grow to 3 and 4 thousand without splitting. Moore, Edmond, Norman, Lawton...all these places have added a few more high schools, but Jenks likes to dominate in football.

Like I've said, if you allowed Lawton to combine all 3 high schools Jenks and Union would have a third school right in their category.

If its all about numbers, then where are all the Broken Arrow state championships? There enrollment is around 5,000 while Jenks is usually around 2800.

[Eielson]

If its all about numbers, then where are all the Broken Arrow state championships? There enrollment is around 5,000 while Jenks is usually around 2800.

Union isn't far behind for enrollment, and Jenks is third. Not coincidently, those are the best football programs in the state. BTW and EC are the two best 5A football programs. They are also the biggest.

[Shakadoodoo]

I'd take Jenks/Union against the majority of other states' top two teams.

If that is so.... Then they need to play one of those top Texas schools and stop playing Southside in Ft Smith Ar.

If they beat one of those teams it would do wonders for their program when it comes to national rankings.

[starclassic tama]

Union isn't far behind for enrollment, and Jenks is third. Not coincidently, those are the best football programs in the state. BTW and EC are the two best 5A football programs. They are also the biggest.

carl albert...? i haven't been keeping up with HS football recently, but they used to dominate 5A...

[Shakadoodoo]

carl albert...? i haven't been keeping up with HS football recently, but they used to dominate 5A...

They should have defiantly been on that list. But they are about the only western school that can claim anything in the last 10 years.

[Peach Fuzz]

Ummm bs... When I played at Clinton I had the chance to beat CA when they won 2 of those titles... I wouln't put them up there just yet but thats just MHO

[Eielson]

carl albert...? i haven't been keeping up with HS football recently, but they used to dominate 5A...

They're one of the best programs. I'd put EC and BTW above them right now, though.

[Cinco Ranch Cougar]

Interesting topic for sure so here is my two cents.
My son graduated from Cinco in Katy (my name gave me away) and is now playing D-1 at Rice. He redshirted this year so is looking forward to the opening game against Texas in Austin.
I am from Duncan and was very surprised and pleased to see the big kid OU signed this year from my alma mater.
Now a couple of observations and some of this comes from recruiters and the ratings guys I talked with during the recruiting process for my son:
1. Texas has a lot of kids playing at a higher level of football than almost any other state.
2. Texas starts these kids at a very early age and the high school coaches in the communities start looking at these kids before they get to junior high school and then the junior high coaches (typically not real good coaches) run the same schemes etc.. as the high school that they feed
3. Texas does pay well at the 5A level and by the way, they do have to teach a class. I know that for a fact. The head coach doesn't but all others do.
4. The coaches have total control of these kids once they get to high school. Meaning, the parents are welcome to come to practices, talk with coaches, urged (i say that lightly) to join the Booster Club, but are told in no uncertain terms do not interfere with the coaching staff and they do not want your input.
5. It works too, because when I saw the first practice I was amazed at the discipline, and efficiency of the whole process, and if a kid did not follow the rules to the letter, he got one chance.
6. The coaches are very good at their jobs. Recruiters remarked that these kids from this area and Texas in general have very good techniques at their position, are in condition, and have the drive to win. If not, they don't play.
7.Off season is a huge part of the success factor and for the most part only the gifted kids are allowed (unofficially of course) to play another sport. The offseason workouts etc... start in mid January and go through Spring drills. Then there is the entire 7 on 7 that starts right after spring ball and goes through June. For all players other than linemen, 7 on 7 is really mandatory.
8. Our playoff system is very lenient and open. Meaning that each district's top four teams go to the state playoff tournament. The two largest teams go to Division 1 and the two smallest teams go to Division 2. This is determined by school enrollment. And when you examine the two divisions it is clear that the larger schools have the edge in talent. For instance the division one state champion either is undefeated or only with one loss. Whereas the division two teams typically have 3 or more losses.
9. Why do they allow so many teams in the playoffs? More revenue because you have more games; but most importantly the longer you stay in the playoffs the more practice time you get. Cinco always went at least 3 deep in the playoffs so that means the season was extended by four weeks. If you go all the way you basically play one and a half seasons. Coaches love this system. And for the playoffs, you can move up as many players as you want off the subvarsity teams to practice so the younger players now get varsity practice seasoning.
10. Subvarsity teams in 5A consist of two freshmen teams, one sophomore team and one junior varsity team in addition to varsity. Everyone gets a shot and the same coaches handle the subvarsity teams that handle the varsity. So the coaching starts at the freshman level.
11. One last comment. The Booster Clubs in Texas are very important to a schools success and provide a huge benefit to all athletics not just football, but in reality, the football reaps the most overall benefit. Our Booster club has over 300 members with dues starting at $50 and going to $500. I would be interested to hear about the Booster Clubs in Oklahoma.
This is how it is in Texas so if someone can compare what you do in Oklahoma with what we do down here it may give you some insight as to the question of the decline??? in Oklahoma high school football.
Great topic especially since we are iced in for the next day or so.
Boomer Sooner and Go Owls.

[owenfieldreams]

From my observation, nothing has changed over the past 30 years in terms of comparing OK highschool football with Texas highschool football.

Oklahoma highschool football is inferior across the board. There are a handful of teams in Oklahoma that could compete with Texas teams but the main issue is the lack of depth in terms of quality teams. Jenks and Union have basically one or two games a year they have to get up for. In Texas, there are districts that are deeper than the entire state of Oklahoma.

Many years ago, when I lived in Wichita Falls, Tulsa BTW was in the middle of their incredible winning streak. They were putting up 60 a game vs Oklahoma competition. They came across the river to play a Wichita Falls Rider team that finished with a .500 record and was in the middle of the pack in it's district. Rider shut BTW out, 7-0.

Jenks or Union could beat an above average Texas school of the same classification but it's all about the meatgrinder that is the Texas H.S. playoff system. It's kind of like Boise State. Give them time to prepare for one game and they'd make a showing, put them in the SEC and they'd lose 3-4 games @ best.

Texas has incredible depth in terms of the number of really good teams @ all levels. And @ the top, the very best Texas teams are head and shoulders above most top teams from other states. Yes, there are Florida, California, and other top state teams that can compete and win but they are the exception.

Early in the 2010 season, Shiloh Christian, supposedly the class of Arkansas H.S. football came into the Metroplex for one of those H.S. extravaganzas to play Euless Trinity, the #1 ranked team in Texas and the nation. I think the final score was something like 83-12.

Union & Jenks are fine programs but if they were in a top end district in Texas they'd struggle to make the playoffs.

[Cinco Ranch Cougar]

I was trying to politically correct; I agree. Katy high has played two teams over the last couple of years, one from Florida and one from Washington state. No contest, Katy kicked their ***.

[picasso]

I mentioned 6A. Going much below 5A isn't much worth watching, and even if you wanted to, it's the same story. All the private schools dominate everybody in the lower levels because they get to choose who comes there.

You've apparently never watched Class 2A or A ball.

[owenfieldreams]

.....and referencing the depth of Texas talent, Euless Trinity lost in the championship game to Pearland.

[Eielson]

You've apparently never watched Class 2A or A ball.

And why should I? They can hardly get enough players out there to even have a team at a lot of those schools.

[JLEW1818]

Raised in Houston. I mean the state kinda has a lot more people.... Oh and my god!!!! The other 2 power house states, Cali and Florida are the second
And third biggest states.... Of course not counting Alaska

[Eielson]

Oklahoma highschool football is inferior across the board. There are a handful of teams in Oklahoma that could compete with Texas teams but the main issue is the lack of depth in terms of quality teams. Jenks and Union have basically one or two games a year they have to get up for.

Texas is a much bigger state than Oklahoma, so this isn't surprising.


Early in the 2010 season, Shiloh Christian, supposedly the class of Arkansas H.S. football came into the Metroplex for one of those H.S. extravaganzas to play Euless Trinity, the #1 ranked team in Texas and the nation. I think the final score was something like 83-12.

Arkansas goes up to 7A, and Shiloh Christian is a 4A school. I don't know much about high school football in Arkansas, but I would guess that a 4A school isn't the best that there is in the state.

[PDXsooner]

If its all about numbers, then where are all the Broken Arrow state championships? There enrollment is around 5,000 while Jenks is usually around 2800.

It's not a guarantee. But it give you a really good shot. It's like spending huge $$ on free agents in baseball. It won't guarantee you a title but it gives you a huge advantage. And one that, at the high school level, is unnecessary in my opinion.

[PDXsooner]

A Latwon All Star team would dominate the state.

It wouldn't dominate the state, but it would probably have won about 3 or 4 state titles in 6A over the past 15 years and been an annual competitor along with Jenks and Union.

[Eielson]

I just looked up the population of Texas and compared it to Oklahoma's. It's about 6.5x more. I don't feel that 13 Texas teams could beat Jenks/Union, and I don't feel that 26 Texas teams could've beaten Broken Arrow this year.

[Shakadoodoo]

I just looked up the population of Texas and compared it to Oklahoma's. It's about 6.5x more. I don't feel that 13 Texas teams could beat Jenks/Union, and I don't feel that 26 Texas teams could've beaten Broken Arrow this year.

After that a## whoopin' that top ranked Alabama team put on Union about 3 or 4 years ago - I bet Jenks or Union will never put one of those top Texas teams on their schedule!

[Eielson]

After that a## whoopin' that top ranked Alabama team put on Union about 3 or 4 years ago - I bet Jenks or Union will never put one of those top Texas teams on their schedule!

You do realize the situation that Union was in, right? That was the worst Union team of the decade. They had just brought in a new coach who went 8-4 or something like that and lost in either the first or second round. The coach was ran out of town after only one season. The same goes for the year Jenks got blown out by Springdale. Jenks ended up losing to Sapulpa in the first round of the playoffs that year.

[C&CDean]

And why should I? They can hardly get enough players out there to even have a team at a lot of those schools.

Don't talk about what you don't know. The only school I've seen in 2A who "hardly have enough players" is Seacrest Academy and it's a school of thugs/jailbirds. No ****, they have armed guards at their games.

I guess I'm confused because many of the posts on here are commenting about two different things. I see some folks talking about "watching a great football game." I hear other folks talk about "great football players/programs."

My youngest two sons played 2A ball in Oklahoma (Lexington). Some of the most entertaining games I've ever watched were in 2A football. No, you don't have offensive lines averaging 280. However, you have some kids that are tough, hard working farm boys and they CAN play.

I've seen a few great players as well in 2A. Wes Welker and a few other Heritage Hall kids, a couple of kids from Millwood, and several other kids who are playing D-1 ball. The biggest problem is that there's only a few each year in the whole division who are that good - and it stands to reason because the enrollments at these schools are not that big.

The games are entertaining, the teams are well coached (for the most part), and some of the players are pretty dang good.

[Eielson]

Don't talk about what you don't know. The only school I've seen in 2A who "hardly have enough players" is Seacrest Academy and it's a school of thugs/jailbirds. No ****, they have armed guards at their games.

I wasn't talking about having enough warm bodies out there to play a game. I was talking about legitimate players. I played at a 6A program, and we had some kids who transferred to a nearby 3A program. These kids weren't even good enough to get playing time on JV, and they went and started for the 3A school. That 3A school even went to the playoffs.


I guess I'm confused because many of the posts on here are commenting about two different things. I see some folks talking about "watching a great football game." I hear other folks talk about "great football players/programs."

I guess watching DIII games can be fun, but I'd much rather watch D1.

[Shakadoodoo]

You do realize the situation that Union was in, right? That was the worst Union team of the decade. They had just brought in a new coach who went 8-4 or something like that and lost in either the first or second round. The coach was ran out of town after only one season. The same goes for the year Jenks got blown out by Springdale. Jenks ended up losing to Sapulpa in the first round of the playoffs that year.

Truthfully, I'm not to fond of the way Union and Jenks comes to the Northside and take our kids (running backs, corner backs, safeties....) - give them a fake Jenks or Union address. That is pretty disappointing when we have been working with the kids for the past 10 years but Jenks and Union recruiters come and tell the parents how bad of a school McLain, Central, ect is to convince them into going way out there away from where any of their family can watch them. But I refuse to keep claiming that Tx is better than OK - so you win - I would love to see them play one of those top Tx schools though!

[C&CDean]

There's only one difference between the average 6-A and 2-A player. Size. One of my sons was good enough to start at Norman North, but at Lexington he was a stud. He played at 5'11" and weighed 150. Played DB, WR, KR, PR, and did all the kicking/punting. Kid never left the field.

If he was 6'1", and weighed 180 he'd have been like the average 6-A DB/WR.

Although Blake and Taylor Griffin (both 2A athletes) wouldn't agree with any of this business. You wanna talk about not fair. When Oklahoma Christian played anybody Blake looked like a giant amongst midgets.

[Eielson]

There's only one difference between the average 6-A and 2-A player. Size. One of my sons was good enough to start at Norman North, but at Lexington he was a stud. He played at 5'11" and weighed 150. Played DB, WR, KR, PR, and did all the kicking/punting. Kid never left the field.

Size is probably the biggest factor, but I think everything factors in. They just have more people to pick from, better facilities, and better coaching staffs. I'm not saying good coaches and good players can't be at a lower level, but there aren't anywhere near as many.


If he was 6'1", and weighed 180 he'd have been like the average 6-A DB/WR.

With all things equal, the added size would slow him down.


Although Blake and Taylor Griffin (both 2A athletes) wouldn't agree with any of this business. You wanna talk about not fair. When Oklahoma Christian played anybody Blake looked like a giant amongst midgets.

They were the best team in the state when Taylor was a senior and Blake was a sophomore. They gave the 6A runner up, Bartlesville, their worst loss of the year. Bartlesville had two D1 seniors that were like 6-8 and 6-9 that went on to play for TU and BYU. The only other losses Bartlesville had that year were to the 5A state champs (with the Vealy twins that were both like 6-9 and played D1) and in the 6A state championship game to Edmond Santa Fe (when Obi Muonelo and Ekpe Udoh were seniors). Small school basketball teams are better off than football, though. You only need 5 starters in basketball, whereas you need 22 starters (plus special teams) in football. The numbers play an even bigger role in football.

[picasso]

And why should I? They can hardly get enough players out there to even have a team at a lot of those schools.

Private schools don't dominate every class.

And I've seen more kids on the sideline in Class A than some inner city 5A teams. Just sayin'.

[picasso]

Don't talk about what you don't know. The only school I've seen in 2A who "hardly have enough players" is Seacrest Academy and it's a school of thugs/jailbirds. No ****, they have armed guards at their games.

I guess I'm confused because many of the posts on here are commenting about two different things. I see some folks talking about "watching a great football game." I hear other folks talk about "great football players/programs."

My youngest two sons played 2A ball in Oklahoma (Lexington). Some of the most entertaining games I've ever watched were in 2A football. No, you don't have offensive lines averaging 280. However, you have some kids that are tough, hard working farm boys and they CAN play.

I've seen a few great players as well in 2A. Wes Welker and a few other Heritage Hall kids, a couple of kids from Millwood, and several other kids who are playing D-1 ball. The biggest problem is that there's only a few each year in the whole division who are that good - and it stands to reason because the enrollments at these schools are not that big.

The games are entertaining, the teams are well coached (for the most part), and some of the players are pretty dang good.

My high school produced 2 All Big 8 d-backs who played at OU and oSu, they were both in the same backfield at Hominy in '82. We also produced an All-WAC RB at Tulsa who graduated in '95.
Not to mention the rest of the Hudson family, 3 of them played in the NFL.

[MichiganSooner]

That's what happens when you allow schools to grow to 3 and 4 thousand without splitting. Moore, Edmond, Norman, Lawton...all these places have added a few more high schools, but Jenks likes to dominate in football.

Like I've said, if you allowed Lawton to combine all 3 high schools Jenks and Union would have a third school right in their category.

Jenks has about 2700 students +/-150.

Union has about 3600; BA has more.

Lots of schools in Texas 5A are the size of these 3 schools.

[Eielson]

Jenks has about 2700 students =/-150.

Union has about 3600; BA has more.

Lots of schools in Texas 5A are the size of these 3 schools.

Union is over 4,000, and BA is closer to 5,000.

http://www.ossaa.com/Portals/0/docs/OSSAA%20Forms/Classifications/2010_11_adm.pdf

Does anybody have a similar site for Texas? I'd be interested to see.

[MichiganSooner]

I think there are very good football players that come out of Oklahoma for sure but.... I don't think Union or Jenks would go very far in the playoffs in TX.

One of them definitely wouldn't go far. One of them would lose to the other by the second round; maybe the first. In Oklahoma, they play in different districts and are seeded so they usually won't meet in the playoffs until at least the semifinals.

[yankee]

Union is over 4,000, and BA is closer to 5,000.

http://www.ossaa.com/Portals/0/docs/OSSAA%20Forms/Classifications/2010_11_adm.pdf

Does anybody have a similar site for Texas? I'd be interested to see.

Here ya go..

http://www.uiltexas.org/files/alignments/5a-fb-enroll-2010.pdf

If you wanna see some gigantic enrollment numbers, take a look at 8-5A in that link. That district is single-handedly the reason why there's some future 6A talk going on in Texas.

[MichiganSooner]

Early in the 2010 season, Shiloh Christian, supposedly the class of Arkansas H.S. football came into the Metroplex for one of those H.S. extravaganzas to play Euless Trinity, the #1 ranked team in Texas and the nation. I think the final score was something like 83-12.

Do you realize Shiloh Christian is a Class 2A school and Euless Trinity is 5A?

Meaning Shiloh might have a graduating class with 25-35 students compared with Trinity with likely 3000 kids in the school. I have no idea of Trinity's enrollment, just basing it on Texas 5A classification.

[yankee]

I just looked up the population of Texas and compared it to Oklahoma's. It's about 6.5x more. I don't feel that 13 Texas teams could beat Jenks/Union, and I don't feel that 26 Texas teams could've beaten Broken Arrow this year.

Jenks and Union, if we transplanted the schools/facilities/surrounding areas to Texas, would probably be top 25 teams each year. Of course they wouldn't be able to get away with the recruiting they do in Oklahoma since UIL is much better than the OSSAA. I could also easily come up with 13 teams that COULD beat Jenks/Union, and beat them handily.

[yankee]

Do you realize Shiloh Christian is a Class 2A school and Euless Trinity is 5A?

Meaning Shiloh might have a graduating class with 25-35 students compared with Trinity with likely 3000 kids in the school. I have no idea of Trinity's enrollment, just basing it on Texas 5A classification.

While there is a drastic difference in enrollment, that still didn't stop Shiloh Christian to proclaim they were the number 1 team in the nation prior to the game. Guess they learned their lesson the hard way lol. Trinity could've put 100 on 'em if they wanted.

[MichiganSooner]

While there is a drastic difference in enrollment, that still didn't stop Shiloh Christian to proclaim they were the number 1 team in the nation prior to the game. Guess they learned their lesson the hard way lol. Trinity could've put 100 on 'em if they wanted.

I have no affiliation with Shiloh. I lived in a little town in Kansas which won the 2A state title; they played each other the following season and Shiloh won a tight game. That is all I know about them.

As far as Shiloh proclaiming they were #1 in the nation--probably USA Today or some other paper made the proclamation and the writer of the article with the rankings learned his lesson the hard way.

[yankee]

As far as Shiloh proclaiming they were #1 in the nation--probably USA Today or some other paper made the proclamation and the writer of the article with the rankings learned his lesson the hard way.

Nope. I checked their school site on game day, and there was a big banner proclaiming the game a battle of number 1 teams in the nation. Wish I could pull it up. I have a feeling it's not there anymore...

[texaspokieokie]

note the large schools in Plano.

those are comprised of only Jrs & Srs.

Like PESH stands for plano east senior high.

6000 students.

[Eielson]

Jenks and Union, if we transplanted the schools/facilities/surrounding areas to Texas, would probably be top 25 teams each year. Of course they wouldn't be able to get away with the recruiting they do in Oklahoma since UIL is much better than the OSSAA. I could also easily come up with 13 teams that COULD beat Jenks/Union, and beat them handily.

When I made my original statement, I didn't realize that there were about 100 schools in Texas that were as big or bigger than Jenks. I figured that they would have similar school sizes, just way more. Even so, I still believe that most years there won't be 13 schools that could easily beat Jenks and Union, but this really can't be based on much. Jenks and Union haven't played any meaningful out of state games in recent years.

[owenfieldreams]

I believe there are 32 5-A districts in Texas, each comprising 5-8 members depending on the district. Like any other state, there are very strong and deep districts and there are weaker, less talented districts.

Historically, the Rio Grand Valley and the El Paso ISD have not produced many decent teams. The San Antonio area has gotten better over the years, particularly in terms of depth of talented teams. The Austin area has exploded in growth and there are now many new strong programs in the area.

Both the greater Dallas & Houston areas produce a cross-section of great and not so great teams but there are numerous quality teams that come out of both areas. Many include the Golden Triangle area (Beaumont, Orange, Port Arthur, Nederland, Port Neches, etc.) as part of the Houston area. In my opinion, the strongest non-metro area in the state is east Texas; i.e., Tyler, Longview, Marshall, Lufkin, etc.

If Jenks or Union were in a manageable district, & seeing as how more than one team can come out of any given district and enter the playoffs, they'd probably make the first round. Then, depending on the bracket, I'd give them a 50/50 to get to round 2. After that, I wouldn't like their chances. You've got to win 5 games in the playoffs down here to win it all.

[Eielson]

You've got to win 5 games in the playoffs down here to win it all.

It's 4 here in Oklahoma, so it's not much different in that sense.

[kiomanche]

I'd take Jenks/Union against the majority of other states' top two teams.

Your nuts! Euless, Trinity. Stony Point Round Rock, Allen, Pearland, Katy, Jenks and Union wouldn't get out of the first round of the playoffs against any of the top schools in Texas 5a!:pop:

[kiomanche]

.....and referencing the depth of Texas talent, Euless Trinity lost in the championship game to Pearland.

I was there, did you happen to see Euless Trinitys road to the Final, #7 Arlington Martin, #2 Stony Point, #4 Allen, #2 Coppell and then a lost to Pearland who beat katy who was tied for #2 in the state with Stony Point, Pearland pulled a Boise State with every trick in the book but it worked and the game went down to the last play. Trinity played as many as 7 differant running backs this year, thats depth!

[yankee]

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[yankee]

You've got to win 5 games in the playoffs down here to win it all.

6 wins in the playoffs gets you a Texas state championship, not 5.

[GKeeper316]

in the okc metro area, we build new schools when old schools get too big, because the quality of the child's education suffers when the student to teacher ratio becomes too big.

in tulsa all they care about is football, so they don't build new schools. they like the deeper talent pools they get from having a student body that's 5-6 times the size of any of the high schools in okc.

[cyclonesooner]

When I started this thread, it was not to compare Oklahoma High School football with that of Texas. It was to compare the skills of today's high schooler to those of earlier decades. After coaching 4 years in Oklahoma and 29 in Texas the advantages Texas possesses such as better economy, numerous large schools, very good coaching staffs in all classes, and a much better governing force ( UIL ) make Texas hard to beat.
Oklahoma kids are just as tough as Texas kids, no questions about it. What is upsetting to a loyal okie like myself is when you see certain border matchups between the two states and Texas school mauls the oklahoma school when 20-30 years ago the opposite result would have occurred or the game would have even been scheduled because the Texas team wouldn't have been able to compete. That is sad.

[StoopTroup]

Truthfully, I'm not to fond of the way Union and Jenks comes to the Northside and take our kids (running backs, corner backs, safeties....) - give them a fake Jenks or Union address. That is pretty disappointing when we have been working with the kids for the past 10 years but Jenks and Union recruiters come and tell the parents how bad of a school McLain, Central, ect is to convince them into going way out there away from where any of their family can watch them. But I refuse to keep claiming that Tx is better than OK - so you win - I would love to see them play one of those top Tx schools though!

It's not hard for folks to be convinced how bad McClain is when the School is on the evening news. I've been around McClain since I was a kid. It's going to take at least another 10 years for you to convince people that McClain is a great place to send their kids. Hell....it's going to take 20 years to convince people who send their kids to a private School that Public Schools can even offer an education. Blame that on whoever you want but I know I didn't have a damn thing to do with any of it. Jenks and Union aren't to blame. Parents are to blame.

[texaspokieokie]

when i was in hs, Central, Will Rogers <webster & Booker T were the only ones. okmulgee was in the conference with 3 tulsa schools,muskogee,
sapulpa & sand springs.

now okmulgee has shrunk way down.

plus, all the okmulgee kids that can, go to school in morris & even preston.

[Eielson]

in the okc metro area, we build new schools when old schools get too big, because the quality of the child's education suffers when the student to teacher ratio becomes too big.

in tulsa all they care about is football, so they don't build new schools. they like the deeper talent pools they get from having a student body that's 5-6 times the size of any of the high schools in okc.

First off, you can always get more teachers. You don't have to build a completely new school. Secondly, I'd much rather have my kid in a class of 30 with a good teacher than a class of 15 with a bad teacher. Thirdly, these big schools in Tulsa "that only care about football" are some of the best schools in the state academically. No matter how small they are, I doubt there are any public high schools in OKC that are better academically than Jenks.

[Eielson]

Early in the 2010 season, Shiloh Christian, supposedly the class of Arkansas H.S. football came into the Metroplex for one of those H.S. extravaganzas to play Euless Trinity, the #1 ranked team in Texas and the nation. I think the final score was something like 83-12.

Union & Jenks are fine programs but if they were in a top end district in Texas they'd struggle to make the playoffs.

I know this is old, but Euless Trinity only beat Union 21-18. That 83-12 against some small Arkansas school doesn't mean much anymore. Union is always good, but to my knowledge, this isn't one of their exceptional teams. Unless Euless is having a down year or something, I'm gonna have to say I think Union would have won themselves a state championship over the last 4 or 5 years if they were playing in Texas' 5A.

[OUmillenium]

4. The coaches have total control of these kids once they get to high school. Meaning, the parents are welcome to come to practices, talk with coaches, urged (i say that lightly) to join the Booster Club, but are told in no uncertain terms do not interfere with the coaching staff and they do not want your input.

Yeah, I havent seen that in any sport at any school I have coached at in Oklahoma = Class B, Class 4a, Class 6A, and Class 2A

[MamaMia]

All I know is that my nephew/Godson, plays varsity for Old PC Pirates and is phenomenal.

[PLaw]

It all comes down to numbers:

Oklahoma pop. 3.5MM+/- DFW Metro pop. 6.9MM+/-.

Desoto 46 Jenks 27
Trinity 21 Union 18

District philosophies also weigh-in. I think Plano's success in the 70's with a single HS despite a population that could support multiple schools set the pattern for mega schools that followed. Allen and Southlake adopted this model (as well as some large OK HS). Our district has purposely chosen not to follow this model because it limits opportunities for the kids. If it's all about winning, then the Plano model is great. But, if it's about the kids, then you want to as many of them involved as possible.

It would be interesting to see how OK HS football would stack up in the SEC land like a Union v. Hoover matchup.

Oklahoma HS football is good and should stand proud.

BOOMER

[MojoRisen]

That's what happens when you allow schools to grow to 3 and 4 thousand without splitting. Moore, Edmond, Norman, Lawton...all these places have added a few more high schools, but Jenks likes to dominate in football.

Like I've said, if you allowed Lawton to combine all 3 high schools Jenks and Union would have a third school right in their category.

This above, Edmond used to contend in the 80s - not so much with 3 schools or more.. I was young but does anyone remember the OIL Bowl - I thought the best of Oklahoma competed well with the best of Texas..

[OU_Sooners75]

Oklahoma high school football sucks. It's the same every year. Jenks vs. Union. Even Lawton couldn't mess that up this year. 6A is so lopsided that it's not even worth paying attention to.


Tell that to broken arrow!

[Edmond Sooner]

" I doubt there are any public high schools in OKC that are better academically than Jenks."

*Ahem*:

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/oklahoma/rankings

and

http://ok.gov/sde/newsblog/2012-05-23/oklahoma-high-schools-among-nation’s-best

Jenks doesn't even rank in the top twenty, academically.

[zeke]

I thinks small schools in SE Ok are & have been weak over the last 10 yrs or so.

Greenwood Ark has domminated Ok teams for the last several yrs, blow-outs. Go down the list of about every Ark team that travel into Ok and Ark dominates...Ark!

Sallisaw, Vian, Broken Bow, Spiro sometimes, are pretty good. But I dont think any have won a gold ball.

[MountainOkie]

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