PDA

View Full Version : Reactions to Gay Tulsa Police Officer



MR2-Sooner86
1/31/2011, 09:36 PM
So today there was an article about an openly gay officer sharing his story of acceptance by the Tulsa Police Department (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20110131_11_A15_ULNSbP518209) in the Tulsa World.

Anyway, a girl I'm friends with on Facebook had a conversation with some people on the subject. She posted it up as a note, deleting all names, and I'd like to share the conversation she had with everybody here.

I want to say I'm surprised by this but I'm not.


Original Status Poster: "The Tulsa World has an article in it today about local openly gay police officers. Just what we need, a buncha fags keeping our streets safe"

Responder #1: "Kinda scary. What will they do to the criminals slap them."

Me: "Wow.... I really hope that statement you just made was a joke. What a hateful, hateful thing to say. You should be ashamed. Religion aside... I don't see YOU doing their job, and I'm sure if you were the one robbed or beat or in any sort of distress, you wouldn't care what sexual preference the officer helping you is, all you would want is HELP. Their sexual preference shouldn't even matter for you. And if you're so close minded that this statement was serious, then let me say... I feel incredibly sorry for you as a human being. Very... Very sorry for you."

Responder #2: "I must side with (****) and (****), until recently sodomy was a crime throughout every state in the entire United States of America. I'm still for old time christian values!!"

Responder #3: "Police officers must put their jobs before their personal lives its sad but it's necessary that's why most of their marriges end in divorce. It's obvious that these individuals put their own personal things ahead of their department and being a police officer. I am a police officer and would not want one of these individuals covering me on a call because they are more concerned about gay pride then their job."

Responder #4: "Amen Br. (****). PREACH IT!! It is a sad world we are living in when this kind of filth is allowed! The one's I feel sorry for are the one's so blinded by the devil that they think this is acceptable!"

Responder #5: "I have several friends who are police officers. I have done ride arounds with them. The subject of gays in the military has come up and to a person none of them approved. The police are very similar in some respects. When it comes to trusting your brothers in arms with your life most people don't want to take chances. When I served in Viet Nam gays were in serious trouble of being fragged. Peoples preferences can get them in some bad trouble. If I was a police officer I would resign before I accepted a gay patrol partner."

Me: "This has nothing to do with religion. This has to do with HATRED. Pretty sure when I went to church, the message I received was it is NOT a humans right to judge another human... that is GODS RIGHT. If you're going along with Christian values. But this... this stems far from judgment and straight into hatred. It may be wrong that this person flaunts it and makes it a priority that EVERYONE in the world knows... and I'm not saying I agree with that at all. What I disagree with is calling all of them fags and spreading such nasty hatred. When you're in a car accident, or have a heart attack, or stub your toe... or something happens to one of your loved ones... what exactly are you going to say to the paramedic who has come to HELP you, as a human BEING, who is gay? Are you going to say no, please let me lay here and bleed to death?? Hell no... because you're human and your need to survive will overcome that. And in the end when you're LIVING because of that paramedic... will it really matter that HE LOVES MEN??? For gods sake, pull your heads from your asses and stop spreading hate. You can disagree with what they do all day long... but spreading hatred is humanities downfall and you're going to be prime contributors. And I really... REALLY hope GOD has mercy on you."

Responder #6: "God's Word is a book of God's rules and judgments, and His Word says that homosexuality is not only SIN, it is an abomination to God! God loved the world so much that He sent His only Son to die for it---but he also will not excuse sin! He destroyed Sodom & Gomorrah because of the sin of homosexuality, and it is ridiculous to say that standing against homosexuality is Hate! To be a Christian, u have to hate sin!! Tolerance has gone too far in this country! God will not tolerate sin--in his love, he will cast every person who chooses to continue in that lifestyle, into Hell! They have a choice--but if they don't chose God, they choose damnation to their soul! Homosexuality is disgusting and perverse in the worst way, and more people need to take a stand against it! Thank you for taking your stand (****)!!!"

Me: "Responder #6... maybe you're right, maybe God will send them to hell for what they've done. And what are you going to do when you get there, and he says, (****)... when did I ever say it was alright for you to make my judgment on that person for me? You're right, there is no commandment of "thall shall not judge" and in the bible when it talks about judgment it's talking about hypocrisy. And like I said, this really has nothing to do with religion. You can disagree or dislike what someone does all day long and you are entitled to that right. But to use words like that towards someone else for what they believe?? How dare you?

Maybe you should spend less time concerned about what other people are doing and focus on being GOOD PEOPLE IN YOUR OWN LIVES. Take this energy you spend HATING and put it to GOOD, CONSTRUCTIVE use. Your life is a GIFT, and if you waste it hating other people... well then you've wasted something pretty amazing.

The only reason most of you think the way you do is because your parents did, and their parents did... and that's all you know. And you choose not to know or learn any other opinions or beliefs in this world because they are not the ones that are originally yours. And if you were raised to love the devil... well guess what, you'd be loving the devil right now.

Oh, and one last note. Thanking him for taking a stand... I really wouldn't say him calling people fags is "taking a stand". I would say that's a cheap shot way of making an uneducated insult. But that's MY opinion, and apparently my opinion is from the devil... lol. And I'll pray that one day, you are in need of one of my homosexual co-workers... and I will pray for you that they don't pass the judgment on you that you have passed on them, and that they save you regardless of your hatred and don't let you die because of your judgment on them."

Original Status Poster: "Me, my apologies for offending you. With that being said, I do not retract my statement. I do not agree with homosexuality in any sense of the lifestyle. However this conversation appears to gave shifted to the topic of judgment, and quite frankly most of you are wrong here. I will be the first to say I wholeheartedly disagree with one man judging another. I see everyone of you judging the other in some area. Maybe we should all focus a little more on our own faults instead of pointing fingers at everyone else."

Me: "Original Status Poster, I appreciate your apology and I respect your opinion as long as it's made in a tasteful way. That's where me being upset comes from. I understand everyone is entitled to their opinion as I am to mine. But when the opinion is more on the side of hate rather than just opinion or belief... that's when I become upset. You're right, we are all judging each other and with that said, I'll stop my side of this. I know that I can't change what any of you think, as well as you can't change what I think. All I'm fighting for is respect for your fellow humans... and using a more tasteful way of expressing your opinion that isn't so full of hatred."

Responder #7: "The Bible says that you shall know a tree by the fruits that it bears. This has absolutely nothing to do with judgement."

Responder #7: "And no, I would not want someone gay working on me in a medical situation period. That lifestyle CHOICE brings with it some very serious health threats. I wouldn't want the possibility of any contamination due go someone elses bad choices."

Responder #8: "Why would anyone want to get to know the lord if they are judged before they even get in the door by there choice of lifestyle. It is your job as a child of God to keep an open mind and open heart to love the ones that need Gods guidance the most!!! Love you Bub!! :)"

Responder #9: "Original Status Poster, don't call them fags... come on man, be kind. Use biblical descriptions, unclean, dishonorable, against nature, and dogs."

Christianity, where if you don't do any of the things we want, there's a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where you're sent to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!

But God still loves you.

47straight
1/31/2011, 09:41 PM
Sounds like facebook isn't the right place to find useful and meaningful dialogue on interesting subjects. Maybe you should try the south oval?

Blue
1/31/2011, 10:03 PM
Lesson : Facebook sucks.

OhU1
1/31/2011, 10:08 PM
OKC > Tulsa?

But seriously, I hear ya. I love Oklahoma but the theological chest beating of those projecting their own views and calling it God's gets old.

sperry
1/31/2011, 10:09 PM
You know someone probably isn't succesful in life when they post stuff like that on facebook, considering that doing so would get you fired from a job with pretty much any respectable corporation or firm.

Veritas
1/31/2011, 11:42 PM
Facebook is just too large a pool of retards to contend with.

The SO, now, it's just the right size. :D

Cornfed
2/1/2011, 12:46 AM
Deleted. since I don't want to be called a hater........

yermom
2/1/2011, 01:07 AM
cops have enough to worry about as it is

do you really want them afraid to pat down a perp because at any time they could get cornholed by their partner?

CatfishSooner
2/1/2011, 01:18 AM
OP, why even bother arguing w/ those idiots?

MR2-Sooner86
2/1/2011, 01:53 AM
OP, why even bother arguing w/ those idiots?

I wasn't it was my friend.

Now as for people thinking I'm taking a cheap jab at Christianity, I'm making a point. They're generalizing homosexuals so I'm generalizing them. However, anybody who has lived in this state long enough knows that a big majority of the church crowd has this mentality to some extent. It's there, I've seen it, and witnessed it. It's there.

yermom
2/1/2011, 09:40 AM
atheists probably shouldn't be cops either

Soonerson1975
2/1/2011, 09:44 AM
Reno,Nevada has a gay police officer. I saw it on the tv.

Breadburner
2/1/2011, 09:52 AM
http://tvmedia.ign.com/tv/image/article/968/968264/reno-911-20090331005306857_640w.jpg

texaspokieokie
2/1/2011, 09:54 AM
Reno,Nevada has a gay police officer. I saw it on the tv.

that show, Reno 911, is hilarious !!!!
especially the one where several of the cops thot they had won the lottery.

okie52
2/1/2011, 09:55 AM
Gay cops love their nightsticks

XingTheRubicon
2/1/2011, 10:16 AM
How 'bout if you're gay, you just shut up and do your job. Some people can't handle it and hate, some people don't care, and some try to tell everyone else how they should think.

A long time ago, I learned that I didn't hate gays, just straight people telling me how I'm supposed to react to gay issues.

C&CDean
2/1/2011, 10:49 AM
How 'bout if you're gay, you just shut up and do your job.

Bingo.

Why is it necessary for gay dude to let the world know he's a gay cop? Whatever happened to "what I do in my bedroom is my business and none of yours?" Do the other cops go around making their sexual preferences known?

Just hump who you want and STFU about it. Unless you're an attention whore, then be ready to deal with whatever fallout you opening your trap will bring. Seems simple to me.

yermom
2/1/2011, 11:27 AM
Dean, i know who you are humping.

C&CDean
2/1/2011, 12:21 PM
Dean, i know who you are humping.

yermom?

OUthunder
2/1/2011, 12:25 PM
Bingo.

Why is it necessary for gay dude to let the world know he's a gay cop? Whatever happened to "what I do in my bedroom is my business and none of yours?" Do the other cops go around making their sexual preferences known?

Just hump who you want and STFU about it. Unless you're an attention whore, then be ready to deal with whatever fallout you opening your trap will bring. Seems simple to me.

Exactly! I don't agree with the lifestyle but I honestly don't give a damn what you do. Just don't act disgusted when the USA votes against you wanting special treatment and attention as to who you're humping.

oumartin
2/1/2011, 12:38 PM
How 'bout if you're gay, you just shut up and do your job. Some people can't handle it and hate, some people don't care, and some try to tell everyone else how they should think.

A long time ago, I learned that I didn't hate gays, just straight people telling me how I'm supposed to react to gay issues.

This person has got to be the smartest person on the internets.

He sums it up rather nicely.

2121Sooner
2/1/2011, 12:44 PM
What if they have some sort of ceremony for this officer or a get together where the cops are invited to bring their spouse?

Are the straight cops ok to bring their wives, and is this guy not allowed to bring his partner?

He is doing his job but will him bringing his "spouse" to the event be allowed?

He has shut up and done his job.

Chuck Bao
2/1/2011, 12:52 PM
hawt damm, he could be one of those village people.

Altogether now: Y-M-C-A Y-M-C-A

Seriously, once the STFU crowd gets a clue, nobody should really care.

Y-M-C-A Y-M-C-A

C&CDean
2/1/2011, 12:53 PM
What if they have some sort of ceremony for this officer or a get together where the cops are invited to bring their spouse?

Are the straight cops ok to bring their wives, and is this guy not allowed to bring his partner?

He is doing his job but will him bringing his "spouse" to the event be allowed?

He has shut up and done his job.

Sure, as long as they ain't holding hands and swapping bodily fluids and ****.

C&CDean
2/1/2011, 01:00 PM
hawt damm, he could be one of those village people.

Altogether now: Y-M-C-A Y-M-C-A

Seriously, once the STFU crowd gets a clue, nobody should really care.

Y-M-C-A Y-M-C-A

YMCA...

C'mon Chuck, wouldn't it be nice if it just wasn't an issue? Y'all shouting about who you like to screw and then getting offended when somebody says STFU reminds me of the black folks who scream for equality, then join all kinds of black organizations - which does nothing but perpetuate the racism.

If you truly want to be accepted in society you STFU and go about your business. You don't have to announce anything. You don't have to call people who disagree with your lifestyle stupid. Just carry on.

Yes, I know you're gonna say something about getting a fair shake legally (insurance, etc.) but I'll tell you that you'll get to your goal quicker by not being obnoxious about being gay. Just be gay. The rest will fall into place.

2121Sooner
2/1/2011, 01:06 PM
Sure, as long as they ain't holding hands and swapping bodily fluids and ****.

So if I were a cop I couldnt hold my wifes hand or give her a kiss?

Soonerson1975
2/1/2011, 01:08 PM
So if I were a cop I couldnt hold my wifes hand or give her a kiss?

Your gun may get in the way.

XingTheRubicon
2/1/2011, 01:10 PM
What if they have some sort of ceremony for this officer or a get together where the cops are invited to bring their spouse?

Are the straight cops ok to bring their wives, and is this guy not allowed to bring his partner?

He is doing his job but will him bringing his "spouse" to the event be allowed?

He has shut up and done his job.

Bring your same sex partner, smile, shake hands, tell stories and don't act like you're in a bathhouse. Basically, you do just what every other couple does. If you need attention beyond that, then you probably shouldn't go...just like straight couples.

stoopified
2/1/2011, 01:12 PM
Your gun may get in the way.Doubt it,I hear he is armed with a derringer.

2121Sooner
2/1/2011, 01:13 PM
Bring your same sex partner, smile, shake hands, tell stories and don't act like you're in a bathhouse. Basically, you do just what every other couple does. If you need attention beyond that, then you probably shouldn't go...just like straight couples.



I agree 100%

stoopified
2/1/2011, 01:13 PM
Doubt it,I hear he is armed with a derringer.Sorry forgot the :)

2121Sooner
2/1/2011, 01:13 PM
Doubt it,I hear he is armed with a derringer.


You give me too much credit.

C&CDean
2/1/2011, 01:17 PM
Indeed.

bonkuba
2/1/2011, 01:24 PM
All would be OK I guess....unless he cuffs ya and asks ya to lean over the car :D

Whole new meaning to never turn your back...

bonkuba
2/1/2011, 01:26 PM
YMCA...

C'mon Chuck, wouldn't it be nice if it just wasn't an issue? Y'all shouting about who you like to screw and then getting offended when somebody says STFU reminds me of the black folks who scream for equality, then join all kinds of black organizations - which does nothing but perpetuate the racism.

If you truly want to be accepted in society you STFU and go about your business. You don't have to announce anything. You don't have to call people who disagree with your lifestyle stupid. Just carry on.

Yes, I know you're gonna say something about getting a fair shake legally (insurance, etc.) but I'll tell you that you'll get to your goal quicker by not being obnoxious about being gay. Just be gay. The rest will fall into place.

Sorry had to laugh :D

C&CDean
2/1/2011, 01:28 PM
JohnnyMack knows a gay cop in Tulsa. Well actually, the cop knows a gay JohnnyMack. Several of us witnessed the fellatio take place at a tailgate party before a OU/Tulsa game. I ain't complaining though. The cop was trying to get us to move outta the street, JM goes "hey, I know this guy" and proceeds to go over and stick his entire upper body through the cop's side window. He's there for a while, backs out, and the cop goes "y'all have fun" and drives away.

TRUE. STORY.

Chuck Bao
2/1/2011, 01:36 PM
Sure, as long as they ain't holding hands and swapping bodily fluids and ****.

These are some honest questions. If you did see a man in a police uniform holding hands with a woman, would it terribly offend you? If not, why would it matter much if they were two men?

This man, who came out while serving in the Tulsa police force, is very brave, in my opinion. I would trust him to properly do his job, probably more than most.

Oh, swapping bodily fluids in public is just EWWWWWW, besides that's just a teenager thing. I'm not at all offended by a polite and quick peck on the cheek or lips. Why would that bother anyone?

2121Sooner
2/1/2011, 01:43 PM
I'm not at all offended by a polite and quick peck on the cheek or lips. Why would that bother anyone?

Because they have been told that their whole life and dont have the time to have an original thought of their own.

C&CDean
2/1/2011, 01:44 PM
These are some honest questions. If you did see a man in a police uniform holding hands with a woman, would it terribly offend you? If not, why would it matter much if they were two men?

This man, who came out while serving in the Tulsa police force, is very brave, in my opinion. I would trust him to properly do his job, probably more than most.

Oh, swapping bodily fluids in public is just EWWWWWW, besides that's just a teenager thing. I'm not at all offended by a polite and quick peck on the cheek or lips. Why would that bother anyone?

Nah, I wouldn't be offended by a cop holding his wife's hand - however I do think when in uniform and on-the-job he shouldn't. It's unprofessional.

The whole spit swapping in public by anybody is nasty. I see grown-assed adults doing it right in front of everybody and I think "WTF is wrong with you two?" The worse was a couple in their early 20's last weekend on the Golden Gate Bridge. It was rainy/misty and cold, and they're standing right next to us tongueing the **** outta each other and they both had all kinds of piercings on their lips/tongues/face. I was hoping they'd lock up and have to be surgically separated.

C&CDean
2/1/2011, 01:44 PM
Because they have been told that their whole life and dont have the time to have an original thought of their own.

Who is this "they" you are referring to chumley?

bonkuba
2/1/2011, 01:45 PM
These are some honest questions. If you did see a man in a police uniform holding hands with a woman, would it terribly offend you? If not, why would it matter much if they were two men?

This man, who came out while serving in the Tulsa police force, is very brave, in my opinion. I would trust him to properly do his job, probably more than most.

Oh, swapping bodily fluids in public is just EWWWWWW, besides that's just a teenager thing. I'm not at all offended by a polite and quick peck on the cheek or lips. Why would that bother anyone?

You serious? Come on man....not trying to start an argument....but good grief :eek:

2121Sooner
2/1/2011, 01:50 PM
Who is this "they" you are referring too chumley?

Homophobes.


I dont give my wife anything more than a peck on the lips or cheek when we are out in public. I agree with what you said about the Golden Gate Bridge story....inappropriate.

But when "they" talk about gays inability of serving in one capacity or another simply because they are gay.......that is ignorant.

C&CDean
2/1/2011, 01:54 PM
Homophobes.


I dont give my wife anything more than a peck on the lips or cheek when we are out in public. I agree with what you said about the Golden Gate Bridge story....inappropriate.

But when "they" talk about gays inability of serving in one capacity or another simply because they are gay.......that is ignorant.

I don't think anybody said dude couldn't do his job because he was gay (at least I don't think so). And I fully agree that who you boink doesn't affect how you can do your job. My only point is that it shouldn't matter who he boinks, and I don't wanna hear about it either way. Just go do your job as a cop, not a gay cop, hetero cop, bi cop, pedophile cop, or whatever.

Gandalf_The_Grey
2/1/2011, 01:58 PM
Personally I would be uncomfortable with a pedophile cop!

Sooner5030
2/1/2011, 01:58 PM
"open"??

If you bring your sexual conduct into a conversation at work then you open yourself up to ridicule. Whether it's fat/ugly chicks or gay sex......don't make it part of the workplace and then get offended when folks don't agree with your choices.

C&CDean
2/1/2011, 01:59 PM
Personally I would be uncomfortable with a pedophile cop!

Well yeah, especially if he brings his 7-year old date to the Police Ball.

2121Sooner
2/1/2011, 02:00 PM
I don't think anybody said dude couldn't do his job because he was gay (at least I don't think so). And I fully agree that who you boink doesn't affect how you can do your job. My only point is that it shouldn't matter who he boinks, and I don't wanna hear about it either way. Just go do your job as a cop, not a gay cop, hetero cop, bi cop, pedophile cop, or whatever.

Then the people you are referring to is not part of the "they" I was talking about. And I agree with you by the way


And you are such a liar. You know if you had a gay or bi pedophile cop as a partner that is all you would ever ask him about.

Go ahead Dean........let it out.

C&CDean
2/1/2011, 02:02 PM
Let what out?

Gandalf_The_Grey
2/1/2011, 02:04 PM
Gus

Chuck Bao
2/1/2011, 02:11 PM
YMCA...

C'mon Chuck, wouldn't it be nice if it just wasn't an issue? Y'all shouting about who you like to screw and then getting offended when somebody says STFU reminds me of the black folks who scream for equality, then join all kinds of black organizations - which does nothing but perpetuate the racism.

If you truly want to be accepted in society you STFU and go about your business. You don't have to announce anything. You don't have to call people who disagree with your lifestyle stupid. Just carry on.

Yes, I know you're gonna say something about getting a fair shake legally (insurance, etc.) but I'll tell you that you'll get to your goal quicker by not being obnoxious about being gay. Just be gay. The rest will fall into place.

Dean, man, I like you very much and I mean this with the utmost respect, but DISAGREE!

Didn't you tell me here a few years ago that I would face a lot of prejudice if I moved back to Oklahoma with my boyfriend? That was very good advice at that time. Then, why all of the STFU? I have no plans for a pride parade down the main drag. No plans to hold hand.

Rights first and then STFU.

2121Sooner
2/1/2011, 02:14 PM
Dean, man, I like you very much and I mean this with the utmost respect, but DISAGREE!

Didn't you tell me here a few years ago that I would face a lot of prejudice if I moved back to Oklahoma with my boyfriend? That was very good advice at that time. Then, why all of the STFU? I have no plans for a pride parade down the main drag. No plans to hold hand.

Rights first and then STFU.

Wait.....I gave you likespek......and you're gay?!?!?!?!

WTF!?!?!?!?!

C&CDean
2/1/2011, 02:21 PM
Dean, man, I like you very much and I mean this with the utmost respect, but DISAGREE!

Didn't you tell me here a few years ago that I would face a lot of prejudice if I moved back to Oklahoma with my boyfriend? That was very good advice at that time. Then, why all of the STFU? I have no plans for a pride parade down the main drag. No plans to hold hand.

Rights first and then STFU.

C'mon man, you would still face prejudice - and will face it 20 years from now - irregardless of whether it's "legal" to bring Nope home with you. You can have "rights" till the cows come home, and it ain't gonna matter.

That's why I say do it quietly. I really believe a lot of folks would hate less if y'all would yell less. I'm not talking about you personally, cause you're a fine guy. I'm talking about the screaming/primping/over-the-top/whore fairy boys who ruin it for the rest of you. Those are the guys most folks think of when they think "gay." Not a normal guy like you.

Skysooner
2/1/2011, 02:22 PM
If you can get people to shut up about their religion in public then maybe he wouldn't feel the need to say something. I'm an agnostic. I'm not atheist, but I also do not agree with many of the tenets of organized religion. I can tell you from personal experience that it gets to be old having to listen to people talk about all of this stuff and then when you say something contrary you are the bad guy. Maybe he had just had enough.

3rdgensooner
2/1/2011, 02:37 PM
I'm talking about the screaming/primping/over-the-top/whore fairy boys who ruin it for the rest of you.
Where do you hang out?

C&CDean
2/1/2011, 02:38 PM
Where do you hang out?

witchoo

Gandalf_The_Grey
2/1/2011, 02:38 PM
with SicEm

2121Sooner
2/1/2011, 02:41 PM
SicEm is Dean's pocket fag

C&CDean
2/1/2011, 02:42 PM
SicEm is Dean's pocket fag

Dude, if I ****ed Sicem the poor boy would split in two.

3rdgensooner
2/1/2011, 02:45 PM
witchoo
I do get called "sir" on the phone a lot. In those cases they probably think I'm a "fairy boy".

yermom
2/1/2011, 05:15 PM
Bring your same sex partner, smile, shake hands, tell stories and don't act like you're in a bathhouse. Basically, you do just what every other couple does. If you need attention beyond that, then you probably shouldn't go...just like straight couples.

this is effectively coming out.

would you really expect them to come out cold like this at a formal affair?

there is a difference between coming out and flaming out.

being gay at a job is a lot of omission and dodging questions

"are you married?" "do you want me to set you up with my sister?" "man, wouldn't you like to throw a few into that new secretary in accounting?"

Ctina
2/1/2011, 06:21 PM
The majority of people on these boards talk about wanting to bang hot chicks or whatever and it's perfectly fine but just by someone talking about their being gay they are flamers? Most of us are "out and proud" heteros and it's no biggie, way more "in your face" with sexuality than many gay people.

waynepayne
2/1/2011, 06:36 PM
Sounds like facebook isn't the right place to find useful and meaningful dialogue on interesting subjects. Maybe you should try the south oval?

I like this post very much.