So, a question for cops and soldiers.

[The]

This just came across in re the Egyptian Uprising:


Al-Jazeera correspondent: Security Forces refuses to fire tear-gas canisters at the demonstrators in Alexandria.

And that raised an interesting question. If America had an uprising similar to what's going on in North Africa, and you were ordered to fire into a crowd of American protesters, would you do it?

[delhalew]

This just came across in re the Egyptian Uprising:



And that raised an interesting question. If America had an uprising similar to what's going on in North Africa, and you were ordered to fire into a crowd of American protesters, would you do it?

Four dead in Oh-hi-oh.

[Oldnslo]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/65/Kent_State_massacre.jpg

[Leroy Lizard]

This just came across in re the Egyptian Uprising:



And that raised an interesting question. If America had an uprising similar to what's going on in North Africa, and you were ordered to fire into a crowd of American protesters, would you do it?

I would do it without the order.

I kid! I kid!

[jumperstop]

I would do it without the order.

I kid! I kid!

So you're saying depending on what color they are?

[bonkuba]

Depending on the time of day?

[2121Sooner]

Seattle, 1999

WTO Protests..........

I would say this is a resounding "YES" to your question.

And I like the protesters......."I'll take two please"


http://raims.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/wto_protests_in_seattle_november_30_1999.jpg

[stoopified]

Just aim one of them noise cannons at them,they'll disperse.

[mgsooner]

The solution is to take these decisions out of human hands. The solution...is to call in ED-209.

mrXfh4hENKs

[olevetonahill]

If they just protesting NO
Destroying Property? Maybe
Causing Physical Harm to others? Hell yes.

[Aldebaran]

t4OSMFYc9Mc

[Crucifax Autumn]

There was a poll of the military in around 2000 and the majority said they would fire on Americans if ordered.

[Harry Beanbag]

If it happened here, my belief is that yes, soldiers would fire on civilians, but that would change over time. How long of a time, I don't really know, but with a nationwide uprising I think eventually citizen soldiers would become more citizen than government issue.

[sappstuf]

This just came across in re the Egyptian Uprising:



And that raised an interesting question. If America had an uprising similar to what's going on in North Africa, and you were ordered to fire into a crowd of American protesters, would you do it?

When I was 19, I did a hippy at the outskirts of Woodstock from a thousand yards out. It was a rifle shot in high wind. Maybe eight or even ten guys in the world could have made that shot. It's the only thing I was ever good at.

[Pricetag]

Sounds like the hyperdrive went out in ED-209 there at the end.

[TUSooner]

Good question. One might also ask some of our more heavily-armed posters if they would ever fire on cops or soldiers. That's evidently one reason for having the Second Amendment.

[SicEmBaylor]

If they just protesting NO
Destroying Property? Maybe
Causing Physical Harm to others? Hell yes.

Exactly right.

[Chuck Bao]

It IS a very good question and probably one that we may never know the answer until that time because it depends on so many complicated factors.

Thailand faced that situation in April last year and this question was raised many times as most media reported that the army was roughly split 50-50, largely on a regional basis.

I find it interesting that the game plan quickly changed from troop loyalty (which nobody probably could change anyway) to support (meaning relief troops, transportation, guns, tanks, ammo, etc). That is why the real battle and test of wills wasn't really in Bangkok, as CNN reported during the chaos. It was in the roads leading to Bangkok and the road blocks set up by the Red Shirt protesters to stop arms movement to Bangkok and the government's successful bid to get through them.

All I am saying that the question is not really necessarily so much about sympathies, loyalty and defending home & hearth. That, in my opinion, is not in doubt. Soldiers and cops undoubtedly feel how a political conflict is turning (of course support is key factor) and winding up being on the right side of history.

With all that being said, I never served in the police or military.

[DIB]

Only Brown people.































































































I hate that University. Everyone is so smug at Brown University.

[AlbqSooner]

If they just protesting NO
Destroying Property? Maybe
Messin with the stash of OVJ? Hell yes.

FIFY:D

[soonerinkaty]

Remember kids, always try your best not to be black or hispanic.

[SoCaliSooner]

If America had an uprising similar to what's going on in North Africa, and you were ordered to fire into a crowd of American protesters, would you do it?
L.A. gets that kinda anti-cop protest when the Lakers win. Luckily most of the rioters aren't US Citizens...so opening fire or giving them a beat down is almost like a reward for the cops.
http://www.realclearsports.com/blognetwork/the_purple_trojan/article-1193086-05585A6F000005DC-418_634x351.jpg

http://laist.com/attachments/la_zach/1-lakerscelebrate.jpg

http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/cnishared/tools/shared/mediahub/09/79/13/slideshow_1137995_7.jpg

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef01157112afc6970b-800wi

http://gossiponthis.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/lfr-1.jpg

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef01157112e870970b-500wi

[soonercruiser]

I think many of you don't give much credit to those with guns in their hands who are not criminals.
At the shooting in Arizona recently, there were 3 different people with concealed carry weapons.
One who was very close to the attack chose to not pull the weapon because innocents might be hit. He chose to join in the attempt to subdue the shooter.

[olevetonahill]

Good question. One might also ask some of our more heavily-armed posters if they would ever fire on cops or soldiers. That's evidently one reason for having the Second Amendment.

Aw Kev,I am an Old soldier and an ex cop .
Lets put it this way, I would NOT start the ****, But I would try to finish it :pop:

[Okla-homey]

If America had an uprising similar to what's going on in North Africa, and you were ordered to fire into a crowd of American protesters, would you do it?

As a former military guy, I would say yes. Below is a charming period illustration from the July 1863 NYC draft riot. I think the use of artillery against the mob is a nice touch.

http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab7/Okla-homey/632px-New_York_Draft_Riots_-_fighting.jpg

[reevie]

If the cops or soldiers feel the mob is a threat, I'm sure they would defend themselves. Peaceful protesters don't get shot.

[Okla-homey]

If the cops or soldiers feel the mob is a threat, I'm sure they would defend themselves. Peaceful protesters don't get shot.

You are correct. And here's the key. If the protesters/rioters/mob wound a cop or troop, it's game on. And not just because the government force is ordered to quell the disturbance. At that point, it becomes mostly about pay-back. And that's when the military or law enforcement leadership has to be very vigilant to avoid a disproportionent response.

[TUSooner]

As a former military guy, I would say yes. Below is a charming period illustration from the July 1863 NYC draft riot. I think the use of artillery against the mob is a nice touch.

http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab7/Okla-homey/632px-New_York_Draft_Riots_-_fighting.jpg

We shoulda kept the Irish out! Daggum IMMIGRANTS!


I jest, lamely. But this had to have been one of the darkest, meanest episodes on US history. How many black people were randomly lynched?

[BajaOklahoma]

If you could take care of the ut fans while you are at it..........

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

If the cops or soldiers feel the mob is a threat, I'm sure they would defend themselves. Peaceful protesters don't get shot.
I call bull****. G-20 protests most every year, especially the latest round in Toronto, feature riot police going after peaceful protesters. Not to say all protesters in Toronto were peaceful, because Black Bloc and other leftist-anarchist groups raised hell, but a lot of peaceful protesters were attacked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaYbq484abs&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiLt40d_AbU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvXSpnG7E2g&feature=related


You are correct. And here's the key. If the protesters/rioters/mob wound a cop or troop, it's game on. And not just because the government force is ordered to quell the disturbance. At that point, it becomes mostly about pay-back. And that's when the military or law enforcement leadership has to be very vigilant to avoid a disproportionent response.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f7/Toronto_G20_Protests.tif/lossy-page1-800px-Toronto_G20_Protests.tif.jpg

[reevie]

Not to say all protesters in Toronto were peaceful, because Black Bloc and other leftist-anarchist groups raised hell, but a lot of peaceful protesters were attacked.

The police were threatened and shut down the protest. Don't threaten the police and that woulnd't have happened.

[Blue]

There's a long list of youtube vids and articles of incidents where policeman used exccesive force to the point of murder. I do realize however that there's gonna be some bad apples. It just seems these days that these guys are dressed like jackbooted paramilitary thugs.

There's a fine line between "protecting and serving" and just being steroid addled, dumbed down enforcers.

[MR2-Sooner86]

How many black people were randomly lynched?

Not nearly enough...

*looks around*

Who said that?

[ouwasp]

I'm a former air nat'l guard SP. If the protestors broke into the base, use of deadly force was authorized. Could I have actually done it? Glad I never had to find out.

A guy I served with had been an SP at a SAC base in the mid-80s. Some hippie anti-nuke protesters were having a demonstration at the main gate. The cops were present in a blocking formation, riot batons in hand. Baton doctrine always called for two hands on the baton except for certain non-lethal type strikes to ankles, etc...

Anyhow, one punk came up to Tim and tossed a ziploc bag of urine on him. Tim's discipline broke. Along with some of the guy's teeth when Tim's baton suddenly sprung into the hippie punk's face. :D Tim got an Article 15 for the incident... but said it was worth it...

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

The police were threatened and shut down the protest. Don't threaten the police and that woulnd't have happened.
Threatened by people singing "Oh Canada" in the middle of the street or the agent provocateurs?

Oh wait, you must have meant this threat
PGMTm3QRwEc

[Okla-homey]

We shoulda kept the Irish out! Daggum IMMIGRANTS!


I jest, lamely. But this had to have been one of the darkest, meanest episodes on US history. How many black people were randomly lynched?

I know this. The riotous bastages burned a black orphanage to the ground with the kids still inside.

[Chuck Bao]

Yeah, that's all fair and good and I agree. Still, it may not be as black and white, as it has been in the US in the past. In some pro-democracy uprisings elsewhere, rumors often spread that the military-backed government has hired saboteurs in order to prompt and justify a harsh crackdown against relatively peaceful protesters.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

The government and its agents should live in fear of its people, not visa versa


Good question. One might also ask some of our more heavily-armed posters if they would ever fire on cops or soldiers. That's evidently one reason for having the Second Amendment.
If they were attacking civilians, yes

[soonerbub]

I know this. The riotous bastages burned a black orphanage to the ground with the kids still inside.

talk about tough troopers those guys came straight from Gettysburg to put that **** down (as I'm sure you already knew ;))






and gangs of new york sucked major donkey dong
a wop playin a mick :rolleyes: (yeah I said it :eek:)

[I Am Right]

FACT-Guard shot at in O-H-I-O

[I Am Right]

SEIU seems the only one to riot and cause mahem. Just saying!

[GKeeper316]

i would have never shot an unarmed american when i was a marine, except for treason, and only after ordered to do so by an officer. it is the duty of everyone who serves to disobey an illegal order, and i would question the legality of firing on americans who were doing nothing more than exercising their right to assemble.

i would not have a problem using non-lethal force to subdue them if and when they became violent.

i would never kill someone for looting. the punishment doesn't fit the crime imo.

we do not have a military so that we can wage war on our own citizens.