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2121Sooner
1/26/2011, 04:23 PM
Win The Future.

His new mantra.


What? Did you think I would have something negative to say about our President?

Never. But a perfect little acronym.

3rdgensooner
1/26/2011, 04:30 PM
I can certainly understand why we needed another thread.

2121Sooner
1/26/2011, 04:33 PM
I didnt want to get this lost in the shuffle of the others.


We have to win the future 3G!!!!

OklahomaTuba
1/26/2011, 05:23 PM
Well is has to be about the future, cause it sure as hell can't be about his accomplishments thus far.

I'm sure the GOP will be more than happy to remind people of his record as President.

Skysooner
1/27/2011, 12:19 AM
Oh yes Tuba. Health care reform (much of what 'Pubs had pushed in earlier years but think is bad now), gays can now serve openly in the military, and pulling us out of a war that that Bush pushed us into. He truly has a bad record.... Get a clue.

SCOUT
1/27/2011, 12:58 AM
Oh yes Tuba. Health care reform (much of what 'Pubs had pushed in earlier years but think is bad now), gays can now serve openly in the military, and pulling us out of a war that that Bush pushed us into. He truly has a bad record.... Get a clue.

I would ask for some linkage for the "much of what 'Pubs had pushed in earlier years..." regarding health care reform.

picasso
1/27/2011, 01:06 AM
I would ask for some linkage for the "much of what 'Pubs had pushed in earlier years..." regarding health care reform.

Reform doesn't mean nationalizing it.

Obama is in over his head.

SCOUT
1/27/2011, 01:32 AM
Reform doesn't mean nationalizing it.

Obama is in over his head.

Sure, but still the quoted assertion must have some basis. If it didn't, then the poster would be making stuff up.

If he/she isn't, I would like to see the specific quotes that show that the republicans were in favor of, at least in part, the health care reform (and I use that phrase while repressing the bile in my throat).

Boarder
1/27/2011, 02:25 AM
Sure, but still the quoted assertion must have some basis. If it didn't, then the poster would be making stuff up.

If he/she isn't, I would like to see the specific quotes that show that the republicans were in favor of, at least in part, the health care reform (and I use that phrase while repressing the bile in my throat).
This is a fairly decently cited article:

http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-chait/obamas-moderate-health-care-plan

And here:

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Graphics/2010/022310-Bill-comparison.aspx

It's fairly well documented that the latest Healthcare plan is very similar to plans previously endorsed by the Republican party members.

SoonerBorn68
1/27/2011, 03:30 AM
. He truly has a bad record...

Fixed.

Leroy Lizard
1/27/2011, 03:38 AM
You can't win the future. Because as soon as you do, it's the present.

Someone really needs to sit Obama down and talk to him.

REDREX
1/27/2011, 07:47 AM
This is a fairly decently cited article:

http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-chait/obamas-moderate-health-care-plan

And here:

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Graphics/2010/022310-Bill-comparison.aspx

It's fairly well documented that the latest Healthcare plan is very similar to plans previously endorsed by the Republican party members.---John Chafee was a Rino ----Look at his son Lincoln Chafee very liberal that endorsed Barack

Sooner5030
1/27/2011, 08:12 AM
the dude needs to buy a calculator and work on the present.

In FY2010 he presided over a gubment that had an operating cost $4.2 trillion and took in $2.2 trillion of revenue. The two previous FYs were almost as bad.

Our mob/electorate sucks donkey balls when it wants more promises yet we already have a $2 trillion gap in fulfilling our current promises.

Sooner_Bob
1/27/2011, 09:00 AM
Win the future sounds like something Neo would say in the Matrix.

OklahomaTuba
1/27/2011, 09:47 AM
Oh yes Tuba. Health care reform (much of what 'Pubs had pushed in earlier years but think is bad now), gays can now serve openly in the military, and pulling us out of a war that that Bush pushed us into. He truly has a bad record.... Get a clue.You know its bad when the only thing you can brag about is a bill so bad that even the donks wish they never passed it (and now 26 states are suing to repeal it). And two broken campaign promises (were still in Iraq and Afganistan, and Gitmo is still open).

Ironically you didn't mention the outstanding job he's done giving us record national debt, record poverty, record homelessness, record home forclosures, record joblessness, double digit unemployment, the eventual loss of reserve currency status, etc.


But yes, thank GOD homos can serve in the army openly. That more than makes up for the economic devastation of the last 2 years.

jkjsooner
1/27/2011, 10:11 AM
This is a fairly decently cited article:

http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-chait/obamas-moderate-health-care-plan

And here:

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Graphics/2010/022310-Bill-comparison.aspx

It's fairly well documented that the latest Healthcare plan is very similar to plans previously endorsed by the Republican party members.

Agreed. They've talked a lot about this. When Hillary was pushing nationalized healthcare the Republican's response was a plan very similar to what we have now - which is something far different than nationalized healthcare.

JohnnyMack
1/27/2011, 10:17 AM
You know its bad when the only thing you can brag about is a bill so bad that even the donks wish they never passed it (and now 26 states are suing to repeal it). And two broken campaign promises (were still in Iraq and Afganistan, and Gitmo is still open).

Ironically you didn't mention the outstanding job he's done giving us record national debt, record poverty, record homelessness, record home forclosures, record joblessness, double digit unemployment, the eventual loss of reserve currency status, etc.


But yes, thank GOD homos can serve in the army openly. That more than makes up for the economic devastation of the last 2 years.

Yep. None of those economic problems started under the watch of a Republican POTUS, it ALL went to **** as soon as a Democrat took over (this is where you try and exonerate W by blaming it on the Democrat controlled congress).

The healthcare bill was a turd, I give you that.

But blaming a downturn in the economic cycle that started before the man was ever elected is typical of small-minded folk like yourself.

jkjsooner
1/27/2011, 10:33 AM
Ironically you didn't mention the outstanding job he's done giving us record national debt, record poverty, record homelessness, record home forclosures, record joblessness, double digit unemployment, the eventual loss of reserve currency status, etc.


Yep, Tuba, that's all Obama's fault. Give me a break. The economy was going into a deep recession long before Obama took office.

Take foreclosures for example. Most conservative I know saw this coming 5 or 6 years ago. You can find ARM adjustment charts with articles predicting a foreclosure crisis dating back a lot longer than that.

True conservatives didn't want Obama to do anything about foreclosures. People bought houses well beyond their affordability and these economic dislocations needed to resolve themselves. (That's my opinion as well.) It's intellectually dishonest of you to bitch and moan about foreclosures.

I am definitely more middle of the road than some on here but I have respect for the conservatives here who at least try to take an unbiased view. You and RLIMC are either simply clueless fools or are intellectually dishonest.

TheHumanAlphabet
1/27/2011, 10:37 AM
I'll go with Palin and the traditional view of the meaning of WTF...

Oblahma and his speech - WTF?

Funny how a Republican owns "Win the Future" web domains and it is in the title of Newt Gingrich's new book...

jkjsooner
1/27/2011, 10:57 AM
And, Tuba, one more thing. Years ago I was posting on soonertimes.com's political board. (I don't think it exists anymore.) Some were blaming Bush for the early 2000's recession. I always stood up for Bush because it was clear that he could not be blamed for that recession.

That's what being intellectually honest is about. As far as I can tell you are just a fool who can't rationally survey the political and economic landscape so you can only repeat the crap you hear from politicians who have an incentive to spin and twist things to blame the other guys.

I'd bet anything that in 2001 you were bitching and complaining about how Clinton caused the recession and Bush was being blamed for it. That was a recession that didn't even start until Bush took office (I think). Why don't you try to be honest for once in your life? I won't hold my breath...


The real story is that we had severe economic issues going back at least 10 or 15 years. Our mortgage industry became something very similar to a huge Ponzi scheme. Homeowners and lenders alike had no concern over whether the borrower could repay a loan because they were under the foolish belief that houses would continue to climb at 10-15% rates for infinity. The problem got so big that even by 2005 it was clear that we were destined for an economic collapse. (Read any real estate bubble blog archives and you can find plenty of articles on this.)

Bush in his last couple of years and Obama have been doing nothing but fighting fires. Frankly I think they've done a good job. I've said it before, I did not like the bailouts but they (both of them) might have just kept us out of another Great Depression. I was strongly against the bailouts but in hindsight I've heard too many stories about how the investment houses were on the brink of collapse.

Anyway, I'm rambling now. The summary is that you are nothing but a fool.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
1/27/2011, 11:12 AM
Yep. None of those economic problems started under the watch of a Republican POTUS, it ALL went to **** as soon as a Democrat took over (this is where you try and exonerate W by blaming it on the Democrat controlled congress).

The healthcare bill was a turd, I give you that.

But blaming a downturn in the economic cycle that started before the man was ever elected is typical of small-minded folk like yourself.Are you purposefully wrong about how the housing/mortgage crisis began? (yes, that same crisis that started the economy going down the shi*ter) If not purposefully, then why?

Isn't calling someone "small-minded" a personal insult ? That's not allowed on Soonerfans, huh?

soonerscuba
1/27/2011, 11:20 AM
Are you purposefully wrong about how the housing/mortgage crisis began? (yes, that same crisis that started the economy going down the shi*ter) If not purposefully, then why?

Isn't calling someone "small-minded" a personal insult ? That's not allowed on Soonerfans, huh?My guess is that you believe the answer is some combination of socialism, Nazis, Democrats and autocrats morphed into a black guy who is fueled by hatred of America and given telepathic powers by the MSMz, am I in the ballpark?

JohnnyMack
1/27/2011, 11:32 AM
Are you purposefully wrong about how the housing/mortgage crisis began? (yes, that same crisis that started the economy going down the shi*ter) If not purposefully, then why?

Isn't calling someone "small-minded" a personal insult ? That's not allowed on Soonerfans, huh?

The housing crisis began in Washington and was a combination of poor oversight and a lack of regulation. Then the scumbags on Wall Street took a look at the rules put in place and ran with it. They realized no one was policing them so they kept up their unethical behavior. Both Democrats and Republicans are culpable for allowing it to happen in the first place and not doing enough to bring it to a halt. See, unlike you, I can place blame on both D's and R's because they're two sides of the same coin.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
1/27/2011, 11:33 AM
My guess is that you believe the answer is some combination of socialism, Nazis, Democrats and autocrats morphed into a black guy who is fueled by hatred of America and given telepathic powers by the MSMz, am I in the ballpark?What's your take on the mortgage/housing collapse?

soonerscuba
1/27/2011, 11:57 AM
What's your take on the mortgage/housing collapse?Killing Glass-Steagall heaped on top of a political structure that viewed home ownership as some sort of prize unto itself for decades set the condiditons within the regulatory arena, but mostly people simply putting themselves into completely irrational financial situations by their own choosing is where I can find 95% of the fault.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
1/27/2011, 12:19 PM
Relaxing conditions (financial requirements)for granting mortgages, under penaly of sanctions imposed by govt, did you say?

OUthunder
1/27/2011, 12:20 PM
Relaxing conditions (financial requirements)for granting mortgages, under penaly of sanctions imposed by govt, did you say?

<cough>Barney Frank<cough>

JohnnyMack
1/27/2011, 12:28 PM
Relaxing conditions (financial requirements)for granting mortgages, under penaly of sanctions imposed by govt, did you say?

Yes. That's the ONLY reason that the economy collapsed. That's it. Finally! You solved it!

2121Sooner
1/27/2011, 12:33 PM
<cough>Barney Frank<cough>


Bill Clinton thought everyone should own a house, he gets Barney Frank to guarantee the loans, Investment banks figure out they can make a mint on derivatives and packaging these loans, Bush had limited to no regulation of the mortgage industry..........and here we are.


There is plenty of blame on both sides of the political aisle.

soonerscuba
1/27/2011, 12:38 PM
Relaxing conditions (financial requirements)for granting mortgages, under penaly of sanctions imposed by govt, did you say?Look, I know your schtick, you cannot or will not be able to parse the difference between relaxing conditions and allowing investment and deposit operations to commingle and what it means for asset backed securities. Did the CRA help? Absolutely not, did Frannie and Freddie act stupidly? You bet. Is it possible to place a crisis with a lot of moving parts on one party, or even individual? Only in the minds of extreme partisans.

2121Sooner
1/27/2011, 12:41 PM
Look, I know your schtick, you cannot or will not be able to parse the difference between relaxing conditions and allowing investment and deposit operations to commingle and what it means for asset backed securities. Did the CRA help? Absolutely not, did Frannie and Freddie act stupidly? You bet. Is it possible to place a crisis with a lot of moving parts on one party, or even individual? Only in the minds of extreme partisans.

pssst......look at the post above yours. I agree.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
1/27/2011, 01:44 PM
Look, I know your schtick, you cannot or will not be able to parse the difference between relaxing conditions and allowing investment and deposit operations to commingle and what it means for asset backed securities. Did the CRA help? Absolutely not, did Frannie and Freddie act stupidly? You bet. Is it possible to place a crisis with a lot of moving parts on one party, or even individual? Only in the minds of extreme partisans.It was a democrat initiative, punishable by sanctions. It wouldn't have ever got started by a conservative, regardless of party. IOW (not such a) Nice Try!

JohnnyMack
1/27/2011, 01:45 PM
It was a democrat initiative, punishable by sanctions. It wouldn't have ever got started by a conservative, regardless of party. IOW (not such a) Nice Try!

You're an idiot.

OUthunder
1/27/2011, 01:46 PM
Bill Clinton thought everyone should own a house, he gets Barney Frank to guarantee the loans, Investment banks figure out they can make a mint on derivatives and packaging these loans, Bush had limited to no regulation of the mortgage industry..........and here we are.


There is plenty of blame on both sides of the political aisle.

I agree 100% but Frank denies responsibility every time that he's asked about it.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
1/27/2011, 01:57 PM
You're an idiot.Must be, since you seldom make sense to me. You are, however, more civil than lots of the libs on this board...which is sad.

soonercruiser
1/27/2011, 02:02 PM
Oh yes Tuba. Health care reform (much of what 'Pubs had pushed in earlier years but think is bad now), gays can now serve openly in the military, and pulling us out of a war that that Bush pushed us into. He truly has a bad record.... Get a clue.

Healthcare?? Didn't anyone see the Congressional hearing yesterday where the GAO rep admitted you won't be able to guarantee keeping your current provider; and it will necessarily increase costs???? Trillion of more debt??
(Never mind that the majority of Americans opposed it!)
Are we out of Iraq yet?
Is GITMO closed yet?

GKeeper316
1/27/2011, 02:02 PM
I would ask for some linkage for the "much of what 'Pubs had pushed in earlier years..." regarding health care reform.

the health care reform act was almost identical to the one proposed by mitt romney a few years ago. the pubs only opposed it this time around because it was proposed by the democratic leadership.

every president since nixon has promised cheap, available health care for all americans, and obama is the only one to actually get it done. clinton tried, but there was too much political opposition at the time.

soonercruiser
1/27/2011, 02:04 PM
I would ask for some linkage for the "much of what 'Pubs had pushed in earlier years..." regarding health care reform.

Conservatives are tired of posting the stories and links here.
Do you own research.
Start looking at Americans for Prosperity; or the Heritage Foundation.

jkjsooner
1/27/2011, 02:04 PM
pssst......look at the post above yours. I agree.

I third that statement.

In my opinion we had a perfect storm of conservative and liberal ideologies playing together.

We had the liberal ideology of pushing home ownership and the idea that any investment with the GSE's (no matter how risky they were behaving) is a no-lose situation because the government would always back them up. Even Bush championed home ownership and many times took credit for the increased ownership rates during the bubble.

We had the conservative ideology that markets would regulate themselves and we gutted the regulatory structure and even when the regulatory laws did exist we purposefully ignored them.

Clinton was a big proponent of this conservative ideology and he shares as much blame for this as any other President. For either ideological reasons or because of political donations from the financial industry (I'm looking at you Dodd and Frank) leaders from both parties pushed for less and less regulation.

The entire system was set up to fail. The mortgage brokers had little or no stake in the game. They were paid by transactions and had little or no financial interest in whether the borrower could repay the loan. Fraud in this area was rampant. They sold the mortgages to banks who would package them up in securities. Due to a compensation model that rewards short term risk over long term stability, bank executives were quick to get involved. Due to conflicts of interests, the rating agencies did a poor job of rating these securities. Investors bought these securities without knowing the true risk. Homebuyers were willfully ignorant about their ability to repay the loans and the true value of the houses they were buying.

Fannie and Freddy played a role but much of this was done without either in the loop.

This cycle continued and the problem got worse and worse. As housing prices continued to skyrocket there was less and less concern by all parties of the risk. They were all high from their perceived profits.

One thing that is abundantly clear, these problems started long before any of us knew who Obama was.

2121Sooner
1/27/2011, 02:04 PM
I agree 100% but Frank denies responsibility every time that he's asked about it.



How he has any power is beyond me. I wonder who he had to suck off to get that job?

3rdgensooner
1/27/2011, 02:16 PM
You are, however, more civil than lots of the libs on this board...which is sad.
There are lots of libs on this board?

jkjsooner
1/27/2011, 02:18 PM
Man, you guys got me to talking about the real estate bubble and I can't stop. I've managed to spend a couple of years without thinking much about it.

The one thing that I will never understand is how otherwise intelligent people did not pause to wonder the price sustainability of a condo that increased from $120k to $500k in just a few years.

jkjsooner
1/27/2011, 02:18 PM
There are lots of libs on this board?

If you don't toe Rush's line then you're a lib to him.

2121Sooner
1/27/2011, 02:21 PM
Man, you guys got me to talking about the real estate bubble and I can't stop. I've managed to spend a couple of years without thinking much about it.

The one thing that I will never understand is how otherwise intelligent people did not pause to wonder the price sustainability of a condo that increased from $120k to $500k in just a few years.



http://activerain.com/image_store/uploads/7/1/1/5/0/ar128115687305117.jpg

3rdgensooner
1/27/2011, 02:22 PM
If you don't toe Rush's line then you're a lib to him.Well slap my *** and call me Libby!

2121Sooner
1/27/2011, 02:23 PM
Well slap my *** and call me Libby!

I'd rather slap your labia......

REDREX
1/27/2011, 02:24 PM
How he has any power is beyond me. I wonder who he had to suck off to get that job?---I am sure the list is long and distinguished

Skysooner
1/27/2011, 05:08 PM
I would ask for some linkage for the "much of what 'Pubs had pushed in earlier years..." regarding health care reform.

In 1993, 23 Republican senators, including then-Minority Leader Robert Dole, cosponsored a bill introduced by Senator John Chafee that sought to achieve universal coverage through a mandate that is, a mandate on individuals to buy insurance. Nearly every major health care interest group had endorsed substantial reforms--grandiose ones, in fact. The American Medical Association (AMA) and Health Insurance Association of America (HIAA), the two great, historic bastions of opposition to compulsory health insurance, both went on record in support of an employer mandate and universal coverage. Even the U.S. Chamber of Commerce endorsed an employer mandate, as did many large corporations. Other groups came out variously for reform options that ran along a spectrum from Canadian-style, single-payer programs on the left to managed competition and medical savings accounts and radical changes in tax policy on the right. Under the circumstances, it was easy to believe the country was ready for substantial reform and that a market-oriented, consumer-choice approach to universal coverage, positioned in the center, could become a platform for consensus.

http://www.princeton.edu/~starr/20starr.html


Health care reform was also part of the 2008 Republican Party Platform.

Skysooner
1/27/2011, 05:12 PM
You know its bad when the only thing you can brag about is a bill so bad that even the donks wish they never passed it (and now 26 states are suing to repeal it). And two broken campaign promises (were still in Iraq and Afganistan, and Gitmo is still open).

Ironically you didn't mention the outstanding job he's done giving us record national debt, record poverty, record homelessness, record home forclosures, record joblessness, double digit unemployment, the eventual loss of reserve currency status, etc.


But yes, thank GOD homos can serve in the army openly. That more than makes up for the economic devastation of the last 2 years.

The economy is like this huge ship that takes forever to turn. Presidents get too much credit and too much blame for what happens on their watch. History will be a judge. 'Pubs had the helm for 8 years before that. 'Dems had it for the 8 years prior to that. This problem has been coming since the early 1990s at least. Don't try to put blame on who has the helm now. He is just dealing with the mess that was left to him by both Democrats and Republicans that came way before him. Politicians are going to have to grow a pair very soon or this country is in a world of hurt with the huge reductions in the manufacturing base and the declining education standards.

TitoMorelli
1/27/2011, 07:49 PM
Well slap my *** and call me Libby!



I'd rather slap your labia......



---I am sure the list is long and distinguished


Fixed.

SouthFortySooner
1/27/2011, 08:02 PM
As far as I can tell you are just a fool who can't rationally survey the political and economic landscape so you can only repeat the crap you hear from politicians

This is the same kind of crap response I got when I made the mistake of posting in a political thread during the campaign. It was the only one of my history on this board. I figure if you can't quote politicians about politics your argument against me doing it is delusional.

soonercruiser
1/27/2011, 10:31 PM
The economy is like this huge ship that takes forever to turn. Presidents get too much credit and too much blame for what happens on their watch. History will be a judge. 'Pubs had the helm for 8 years before that. 'Dems had it for the 8 years prior to that. This problem has been coming since the early 1990s at least. Don't try to put blame on who has the helm now. He is just dealing with the mess that was left to him by both Democrats and Republicans that came way before him. Politicians are going to have to grow a pair very soon or this country is in a world of hurt with the huge reductions in the manufacturing base and the declining education standards.

This is a pretty good anology.
Yet, why did Obama insist on adding $4 Trillion more in debt???
He is not "at the helm" of the ship! Peloski & Reid were!
He is in his luxury cabin enjoying the scenery while the ship is on fire!
ONLY the election last November has awoken him.....slightly.

Leroy Lizard
1/27/2011, 11:37 PM
I wonder who he had to suck off to get that job?

Usually such statements are made in jest, but with Frank...

soonercruiser
1/27/2011, 11:56 PM
Oblivious!

http://members.cox.net/franklipsinic/Obama/Obama%20Big%20debt.jpg

Skysooner
1/28/2011, 07:53 AM
This is a pretty good anology.
Yet, why did Obama insist on adding $4 Trillion more in debt???
He is not "at the helm" of the ship! Peloski & Reid were!
He is in his luxury cabin enjoying the scenery while the ship is on fire!
ONLY the election last November has awoken him.....slightly.

Actually they would be the engines. The President is still the Captain. This whole thing is unprecedented in the modern era. Economists couldn't agree on what to do since most of the knowledge of when this last happened is pushing up daisies. What people never talk about is how much worse it could have been without the stimulus. Was everything done properly? Not at all. Still in the situation where something is happening and nobody knows what to do, you do something and hope for the best. My main fault with Obama at this point is not reining in health care costs (the biggest issue with health care right now) and not regulating the banks more. The financial crisis has mostly been shoved under the table at this point. There are still tons of toxic assets out there, but they have been repackaged. Banks are just hoping to devalue them slowly so as not to take the stock or reserve hit. If we get another crisis in the next 5 years or so, this thing is going to get that much worse.

pphilfran
1/28/2011, 08:31 AM
Yep. None of those economic problems started under the watch of a Republican POTUS, it ALL went to **** as soon as a Democrat took over (this is where you try and exonerate W by blaming it on the Democrat controlled congress).

The healthcare bill was a turd, I give you that.

But blaming a downturn in the economic cycle that started before the man was ever elected is typical of small-minded folk like yourself.

The financial meltdown started in the 90's under Clinton...a large-minded person like yourself should look into some info a a lady named Brooksley Born...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooksley_Born

Born was appointed to the CFTC on April 15, 1994 by President Bill Clinton.

Due to litigation against Bankers Trust Company by Procter and Gamble and other corporate clients, Born and her team at the CFTC sought comments on the regulation of derivatives,[3] a first step in the process of writing comprehensive regulations. Born was particularly concerned about swaps, financial instruments that are traded over the counter between banks, insurance companies or other funds or companies, and thus have no transparency except to the two counterparties and the counterparties' regulators, if any.

CFTC regulation was strenuously opposed by Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan, and by Treasury Secretaries Robert Rubin and Lawrence Summers.[4] On May 7, 1998, former SEC Chairman Arthur Levitt joined Rubin and Greenspan in objecting to the issuance of the CFTC’s concept release.

Their response dismissed Born's analysis and focused on the hypothetical possibility that CFTC regulation of swaps and other OTC derivative instruments could create a "legal uncertainty" regarding such financial instruments, hypothetically reducing the value of the instruments. They iterated the traditional capitalist-class argument that the imposition of regulatory costs would "stifle financial innovation" and encourage financial capital to transfer its transactions offshore.[8]

The disagreement between Born and the Executive Office's top economic policy advisors has been described not only as a classic Washington turf war,[6] but also a war of ideologies,[9] insofar as it is possible to argue that Born was acting ideologically in a sense comparable to Greenspan, Rubin, Levitt, Summers, and the rest of the neoclassical economics-supported neoliberal and neoconservative academic, corporate, and policy-maintenance communities.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/warning/view/

In The Warning, veteran FRONTLINE producer Michael Kirk unearths the hidden history of the nation's worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. At the center of it all he finds Brooksley Born, who speaks for the first time on television about her failed campaign to regulate the secretive, multitrillion-dollar derivatives market whose crash helped trigger the financial collapse in the fall of 2008.

"I didn't know Brooksley Born," says former SEC Chairman Arthur Levitt, a member of President Clinton's powerful Working Group on Financial Markets. "I was told that she was irascible, difficult, stubborn, unreasonable." Levitt explains how the other principals of the Working Group --

former Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan and former Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin -- convinced him that Born's attempt to regulate the risky derivatives market could lead to financial turmoil, a conclusion he now believes was "clearly a mistake."

Born's battle behind closed doors was epic, Kirk finds. The members of the President's Working Group vehemently opposed regulation -- especially when proposed by a Washington outsider like Born.

"I walk into Brooksley's office one day; the blood has drained from her face," says Michael Greenberger, a former top official at the CFTC who worked closely with Born. "She's hanging up the telephone; she says to me: 'That was [former Assistant Treasury Secretary] Larry Summers. He says, "You're going to cause the worst financial crisis since the end of World War II."... [He says he has] 13 bankers in his office who informed him of this. Stop, right away. No more.'"

Greenspan, Rubin and Summers ultimately prevailed on Congress to stop Born and limit future regulation of derivatives. "Born faced a formidable struggle pushing for regulation at a time when the stock market was booming," Kirk says. "Alan Greenspan was the maestro, and both parties in Washington were united in a belief that the markets would take care of themselves."



Now, with many of the same men who shut down Born in key positions in the Obama administration, The Warning reveals the complicated politics that led to this crisis and what it may say about current attempts to prevent the next one.

"It'll happen again if we don't take the appropriate steps," Born warns. "There will be significant financial downturns and disasters attributed to this regulatory gap over and over until we learn from experience."

JohnnyMack
1/28/2011, 09:42 AM
CFTC regulation was strenuously opposed by Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan, and by Treasury Secretaries Robert Rubin and Lawrence Summers.[4] On May 7, 1998, former SEC Chairman Arthur Levitt joined Rubin and Greenspan in objecting to the issuance of the CFTC’s concept release.

Wait. You mean Robert "Goldman Sachs" Rubin and Larry "World Bank" Summers told Alan "The Reagan Appointee" Greenspan that they DIDN'T think regulation was a good idea?!?!?

What's your next revelation, that the sun rose in the east today?

pphilfran
1/28/2011, 09:58 AM
Wait. You mean Robert "Goldman Sachs" Rubin and Larry "World Bank" Summers told Alan "The Reagan Appointee" Greenspan that they DIDN'T think regulation was a good idea?!?!?

What's your next revelation, that the sun rose in the east today?

To many it is a revelation...it is always Bush's fault...Clinton and his booming economy and high cap gains revenue from a booming stock market that balanced the budget gets a free pass.....

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
1/28/2011, 11:55 AM
To many it is a revelation...it is always Bush's fault...Clinton and his booming economy and high cap gains revenue from a booming stock market that balanced the budget gets a free pass.....What is "forgotten" by commentators(yes, includes you)that attribute the tech boom during Clinton's yrs. to Clinton's doing, was the most conservative and fiscally responsible congress we have had during my 65 yrs on the planet. Elected in 1994, after Clinton's "Hillrycare" was rejected by the American people, the republican congress kept Clinton from the leftist excesses he would otherwise have achieved.

Unfortunately, America's amnesia got the democrats back into power in '06, and we have slid to the point where we are today.

JohnnyMack
1/28/2011, 01:45 PM
What is "forgotten" by commentators(yes, includes you)that attribute the tech boom during Clinton's yrs. to Clinton's doing, was the most conservative and fiscally responsible congress we have had during my 65 yrs on the planet. Elected in 1994, after Clinton's "Hillrycare" was rejected by the American people, the republican congress kept Clinton from the leftist excesses he would otherwise have achieved.

Unfortunately, America's amnesia got the democrats back into power in '06, and we have slid to the point where we are today.

I happen to think that economic ebbs and flows transcend politics. I don't think you can say that one party caused or prevented a bubble, a boom or a bust. Policy decisions do affect in small ways, but the overall economy is bigger than a choice made here and a decision made there.

2121Sooner
1/28/2011, 01:52 PM
I happen to think that economic ebbs and flows transcend politics. I don't think you can say that one party caused or prevented a bubble, a boom or a bust. Policy decisions do affect in small ways, but the overall economy is bigger than a choice made here and a decision made there.


Sure you can. The Dems do it all the time in regards to Bush.

JohnnyMack
1/28/2011, 02:09 PM
Sure you can. The Dems do it all the time in regards to Bush.

And the right does it all the time to the left. Or are you just intentionally being a schmuck here?

jkjsooner
1/28/2011, 02:45 PM
The financial meltdown started in the 90's under Clinton...a large-minded person like yourself should look into some info a a lady named Brooksley Born...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooksley_Born

Born was appointed to the CFTC on April 15, 1994 by President Bill Clinton.


I didn't realize you were a liberal. Thanks for clearing that up.

I'm kidding but you do have to admit your entire post, while blaming Clinton (rightly so), really pushes the more liberal ideology on regulation.

I've been critical of Clinton and Ruben for a long long time. I've watched the Frontline piece on Born quite a few times and got mad about it each time. Clinton bought into the conservative anti-regulation ideology pushed by Greenspan and he deserves a lot of blame here.

jkjsooner
1/28/2011, 03:01 PM
Unfortunately, America's amnesia got the democrats back into power in '06, and we have slid to the point where we are today.

You know darn well that there were severe structural flaws in our economy well before 2006. People in California were already paying three or four times more for a house than they could possibly ever afford. Investment houses were already highly leveraged many fold on loans that were destined to fail.

I want to believe you're smart enough to realize that. I guarantee you, your idol Rush is even if it isn't profitable for him to admit it.

You can't have it both ways. You can't say that Clinton played a major role in this latest recession yet turn around and act as if everything was peachy up until 2006.

It's enough when politicians and talk show hosts (and I'm pointing at both sides here) play these games. I recognize they have agendas and motivations for doing so. I'd like to think that on a message board we could have a more honest debate.

Most guys on here can do that. With you and Tuba it just seems like you're incapable of any kind of meaningful debate. All you want to do is throw out talking points to try to score points.

pphilfran
1/28/2011, 03:22 PM
I didn't realize you were a liberal. Thanks for clearing that up.

I'm kidding but you do have to admit your entire post, while blaming Clinton (rightly so), really pushes the more liberal ideology on regulation.

I've been critical of Clinton and Ruben for a long long time. I've watched the Frontline piece on Born quite a few times and got mad about it each time. Clinton bought into the conservative anti-regulation ideology pushed by Greenspan and he deserves a lot of blame here.


I don't play the liberal/conservative game....I can be all over the map on my thoughts and ideas...

In most cases we don't need more regulation, just better and random auditing systems to enforce the regulations...

okie52
1/28/2011, 03:26 PM
I don't play the liberal/conservative game....I can be all over the map on my thoughts and ideas...

In most cases we don't need more regulation, just better and random auditing systems to enforce the regulations...

Radical!!!!

pphilfran
1/28/2011, 03:28 PM
Radical!!!!

Tito sent me a link on how there were two catapults captured in the drug wars...big enough to toss a kilo of pot over the fence...

Did you sell my design?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/26/drug-catapult-mexico-border/#

okie52
1/28/2011, 03:34 PM
Tito sent me a link on how there were two catapults captured in the drug wars...big enough to toss a kilo of pot over the fence...

Did you sell my design?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/26/drug-catapult-mexico-border/#

He sent me that too but nothing can approach your catapult.

http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af24/okie54/011.jpg

http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af24/okie54/020.jpg

soonercruiser
1/29/2011, 12:00 AM
Just a quick health issue update.

I am now well healed well from the very first catapult attack.
But, I am getting tired walking back to from whence I came.
Ahhhh! U.S. border in sight!
:D
Yours truely,
Miguel