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pphilfran
1/25/2011, 04:34 PM
Yeah!

The freeze wouldn’t apply to spending for Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Homeland Security, the Defense Department or interest payments on the national debt. Discretionary spending outside security accounts for about 14 percent of Obama’s budget.

Boo....

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-01-25/obama-is-said-to-call-for-five-year-freeze-on-u-s-discretionary-spending.html

Oldnslo
1/25/2011, 04:36 PM
how... Nixonian.

JohnnyMack
1/25/2011, 04:36 PM
All a part of his plan to turn us into white slaves. Muwhahahaha!!!!

JohnnyMack
1/25/2011, 04:39 PM
I love that they're touting a plan to cut defense spending by 78 billion over five years. Let's see, they spend roughly 680 billion a year, so that's 3.4 trillion over five years. 78 billion / 3.4 trillion is what, .02 percent?

NormanPride
1/25/2011, 04:42 PM
Hey, a 2% cut is better than no cut.

Oldnslo
1/25/2011, 04:48 PM
I love that they're touting a plan to cut defense spending by 78 billion over five years. Let's see, they spend roughly 680 billion a year, so that's 3.4 trillion over five years. 78 billion / 3.4 trillion is what, .02 percent?

Stop mathing!

pphilfran
1/25/2011, 04:49 PM
Hey, a 2% cut is better than no cut.

Cutting 2 or 3% a year is about as much as you can expect...any more than that and you will have a hard time finding work for the displaced soldiers and defense contractors...

The 78 billion in defense savings is what Gates suggested a while back...

I think that 78 bill is outside the spending freeze Obama is going to propose...

NormanPride
1/25/2011, 04:55 PM
We should have a congress freeze. A literal, cryogenic congress freeze.

okie52
1/25/2011, 04:57 PM
Cutting 2 or 3% a year is about as much as you can expect...any more than that and you will have a hard time finding work for the displaced soldiers and defense contractors...

The 78 billion in defense savings is what Gates suggested a while back...

I think that 78 bill is outside the spending freeze Obama is going to propose...

2% a year would be good...but this will be about 1/5 of that amount.

Still, it will be a start. So Kudo's to Obama for that.

Now if he would start hitting those farm and ethanol subsidies.

delhalew
1/25/2011, 05:21 PM
Great. He can have his little freeze, and the House can come up with some cuts. Maybe when the dust settles we will have made some cuts that constitute a good start.

If he wants me to believe he gives a **** about cutting spending, he's out of luck. I was unfortunate enough to be paying attention over the last couple years.

sappstuf
1/25/2011, 05:39 PM
Great..

From 2008 until now the budget has increased by a trillion dollars all under Obama's watch. 2008 should have counted against Bush, but the Dems in Congress never did pass a budget until Obama was sworn in so they could get whatever in there they wanted. They were obviously successful.

Freezing spending now is like giving your 6-month pregnant daughter condoms for birth control.. Just a tad late.

soonercoop1
1/25/2011, 07:28 PM
Yeah!

The freeze wouldn’t apply to spending for Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Homeland Security, the Defense Department or interest payments on the national debt. Discretionary spending outside security accounts for about 14 percent of Obama’s budget.

Boo....

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-01-25/obama-is-said-to-call-for-five-year-freeze-on-u-s-discretionary-spending.html

Now that he has already added trillions in debt with his socialist redistributive agenda...he isn't serious about anything but destroying this country...

jdsooner
1/25/2011, 08:07 PM
Now that he has already added trillions in debt with his socialist redistributive agenda...he isn't serious about anything but destroying this country...

You are so right! Because everyone knows that Obama has a SECRET PLOT to destroy the country. And when he succeeds he will invade Mexico and destroy that country! Ane then, he can invade Canada and destroy that country. He will destroy one country after another. He will even build this giant Death Star and get Darth Vader to command it so he can destroy entire planets instead of mere countries. And for identifying this terrible plot, you win two free tickets to Fantasyland!:rolleyes:

SoCaliSooner
1/25/2011, 08:21 PM
How about letting the already standing, already producing oil wells start pumping US oil into the US economy?

Double digit unemployment, housing depression and the cost of goods/services already on the rise, crying about foreign dependence on oil as well as rising current fuel prices....means we should start actually thinking about the average American who needs to gas up their cars.

EnragedOUfan
1/25/2011, 08:22 PM
Now that he has already added trillions in debt with his socialist redistributive agenda...he isn't serious about anything but destroying this country...

What do you want then? You people are never freaking happy...........First off, why not throw in Bush's bailout of Frannie May and Frannie Mac that just so had to be done because if not, a catostrophe would take place.......only to be pocketed by CEO's, to be turned into bonuses, go unaccounted for......I haven't heard much Republican opposition on that one. The actual Auto bailout worked.......The Stimulus plan has been somewhat positive I think.......

If you people want to know why this nation went to crap, two reasons: The Iraq War and Afghanistan War. Think how much money goes into fueling the vehicles, operation of the aircraft, feeding the troops.....Maybe some of you are unaware of how much Government Contractors make over there........or how much a doggone resistor or hard drive can cost through Fedlog.......And this has been happening since 2001. But screw it, its Obama's fault..........

SoCaliSooner
1/25/2011, 08:27 PM
What do you want then? You people are never freaking happy...........First off, why not throw in Bush's bailout of Frannie May and Frannie Mac that just so had to be done because if not, a catostrophe would take place.......only to be pocketed by CEO's, to be turned into bonuses, go unaccounted for......I haven't heard much Republican opposition on that one. The actual Auto bailout worked.......The Stimulus plan has been somewhat positive I think.......

If you people want to know why this nation went to crap, two reasons: The Iraq War and Afghanistan War. Think how much money goes into fueling the vehicles, operation of the aircraft, feeding the troops.....Maybe some of you are unaware of how much Government Contractors make over there........or how much a doggone resistor or hard drive can cost through Fedlog.......And this has been happening since 2001. But screw it, its Obama's fault..........


But Obama campaigned to reverse all that....close Guitmo, end Iraq and Afghanistan wars, keep unemployment under 8 percent, revamp the housing market and keep the idiots who overspent in their homes and get free helathcare for all....

Amiryte?

EnragedOUfan
1/25/2011, 08:34 PM
But Obama campaigned to reverse all that....close Guitmo, end Iraq and Afghanistan wars, keep unemployment under 8 percent, revamp the housing market and keep the idiots who overspent in their homes and get free helathcare for all....

Amiryte?

True, but one war has been going strong since 2001 and the other since 2003.

Blue
1/25/2011, 08:38 PM
All those people you are gonna watch tonight (R and D) don't give a damn what you peons think. But by all means, keep slashing each others throats and enjoy the show. ;)

soonercruiser
1/25/2011, 11:08 PM
Cutting 2 or 3% a year is about as much as you can expect...any more than that and you will have a hard time finding work for the displaced soldiers and defense contractors...

The 78 billion in defense savings is what Gates suggested a while back...

I think that 78 bill is outside the spending freeze Obama is going to propose...

Not only that....
National Defense is the #1 priority for the government - as the Founding Fathers intended.
But, if we start withdrawing bases from Europe and Japan, defense spending reductions can be done too.

bigfatjerk
1/25/2011, 11:52 PM
Not only that....
National Defense is the #1 priority for the government - as the Founding Fathers intended.
But, if we start withdrawing bases from Europe and Japan, defense spending reductions can be done too.
I think that's debatable. Basically what Jefferson wanted as everyone be forced into being prepared for service. Under one of his plans that didn't get passed every male 21-25 would serve sometime to learn and be a soldier, only to prepare incase we have had to go to war. But he also cut military spending to it's lowest level in the history of this country. We basically used the military to go after Pirates in his first term after that he basically cut the military spending to just teaching service men how to fight. He basically created the Army Corp of Engineers and created Westpoint. He got rid of the Navy, almost completely de-funded the army. He believed in individuals stepping up to defend borders if that was needed. And he and Madison where the guys behind the constitution. And then Madison decided to go to War with Britain and we basically got our asses handed to us.

The Profit
1/26/2011, 12:27 AM
2% a year would be good...but this will be about 1/5 of that amount.

Still, it will be a start. So Kudo's to Obama for that.

Now if he would start hitting those farm and ethanol subsidies.




Not sure if what he plans to do with the farm and ethanol subsidies, but he damned sure went after the subsidies to dirty stinking oil companies. God bless him for that.

Curly Bill
1/26/2011, 12:42 AM
I think that's debatable. Basically what Jefferson wanted as everyone be forced into being prepared for service. Under one of his plans that didn't get passed every male 21-25 would serve sometime to learn and be a soldier, only to prepare incase we have had to go to war. But he also cut military spending to it's lowest level in the history of this country. We basically used the military to go after Pirates in his first term after that he basically cut the military spending to just teaching service men how to fight. He basically created the Army Corp of Engineers and created Westpoint. He got rid of the Navy, almost completely de-funded the army. He believed in individuals stepping up to defend borders if that was needed. And he and Madison where the guys behind the constitution. And then Madison decided to go to War with Britain and we basically got our asses handed to us.

I'll volunteer for this! I can shoot the bastages that come across right?

sappstuf
1/26/2011, 10:01 AM
Not sure if what he plans to do with the farm and ethanol subsidies, but he damned sure went after the subsidies to dirty stinking oil companies. God bless him for that.

I subsidized those dirty stinking oil companies last night when I filled up with gas.

Against my will I also subsidized the dirtier and stinkier ethanol producers. I don't like destroying the planet, contributing to more global warming and literally stealing food off the plate of the poor to fuel my car, but hey.. It is easier to not think about the actual facts.

soonerbrat
1/26/2011, 10:13 AM
does that mean the Mrs. can't fly off to Paris to go shopping?

virginiasooner
1/26/2011, 10:23 AM
What do you want then? You people are never freaking happy...........First off, why not throw in Bush's bailout of Frannie May and Frannie Mac that just so had to be done because if not, a catostrophe would take place.......only to be pocketed by CEO's, to be turned into bonuses, go unaccounted for......I haven't heard much Republican opposition on that one. The actual Auto bailout worked.......The Stimulus plan has been somewhat positive I think.......

If you people want to know why this nation went to crap, two reasons: The Iraq War and Afghanistan War. Think how much money goes into fueling the vehicles, operation of the aircraft, feeding the troops.....Maybe some of you are unaware of how much Government Contractors make over there........or how much a doggone resistor or hard drive can cost through Fedlog.......And this has been happening since 2001. But screw it, its Obama's fault..........

It's certainly easier to blame Obama than to truly comtemplate the massive damage that Dubya did to this country. And yes, the budget went up under Obama, because he put the two wars in the budget, and not run the war off-budget the way Dubya did.

okie52
1/26/2011, 10:25 AM
Not sure if what he plans to do with the farm and ethanol subsidies, but he damned sure went after the subsidies to dirty stinking oil companies. God bless him for that.

He'll do nothing with the farm subsidies because he wants to continue to subsidize dirty, stinking ethanol.

Did you fill up your car today? Thank you in advance for your next fillup and your continued use of yesterday's technology.

JohnnyMack
1/26/2011, 10:29 AM
It was rather telling that when he mentioned the 5 year spending freeze, neither Republicans or Democrats applauded. That should tell you all you need to know about politics in Washington.

okie52
1/26/2011, 10:31 AM
I subsidized those dirty stinking oil companies last night when I filled up with gas.

Against my will I also subsidized the dirtier and stinkier ethanol producers. I don't like destroying the planet, contributing to more global warming and literally stealing food off the plate of the poor to fuel my car, but hey.. It is easier to not think about the actual facts.

Didn't see your post Sapp. I try to buy 100% gasoline so as not to help subsidize those stinkin, rotten, ethanol producers that Obama seems so enamored with....even though the EPA says ethanol is dirtier than gasoline.

God Bless those wonderful oil companies, heroes of American industry, that continue to provide energy for our country over the mindless objections of those who seek to destroy us.

delhalew
1/26/2011, 10:44 AM
Didn't see your post Sapp. I try to buy 100% gasoline so as not to help subsidize those stinkin, rotten, ethanol producers that Obama seems so enamored with....even though the EPA says ethanol is dirtier than gasoline.

God Bless those wonderful oil companies, heroes of American industry, that continue to provide energy for our country over the mindless objections of those who seek to destroy us.

Truth.

1890MilesToNorman
1/26/2011, 10:54 AM
My first suggestion has always been a moratorium on passing any NEW LAWS until we take every other law on the books and re-evaluate it. The main objective being the constitutionality of those laws.

My second suggestion is to only allow congress to meet for 2 days a year.

My third suggestion would be to scrap all federal gubment and start over.

But I'm old fashioned.

sappstuf
1/26/2011, 11:09 AM
Didn't see your post Sapp. I try to buy 100% gasoline so as not to help subsidize those stinkin, rotten, ethanol producers that Obama seems so enamored with....even though the EPA says ethanol is dirtier than gasoline.

God Bless those wonderful oil companies, heroes of American industry, that continue to provide energy for our country over the mindless objections of those who seek to destroy us.

It is hard to do that down in San Antonio. When I was up in Oklahoma I saw signs everywhere about selling 100% gas. You don't see those down here.

I went to pure-gas.org, but they show nothing in the San Antonio area except one in New Braunfels which is way out of the way for me. :mad:

okie52
1/26/2011, 11:26 AM
It is hard to do that down in San Antonio. When I was up in Oklahoma I saw signs everywhere about selling 100% gas. You don't see those down here.

I went to pure-gas.org, but they show nothing in the San Antonio area except one in New Braunfels which is way out of the way for me. :mad:

Amazing in TX they don't have pure gasoline.

OutlandTrophy
1/26/2011, 12:19 PM
It was rather telling that when he mentioned the 5 year spending freeze, neither Republicans or Democrats applauded. That should tell you all you need to know about politics in Washington.

maybe they remembered his announcement of a 3 year spending freeze last year...

soonercruiser
1/26/2011, 12:33 PM
Not sure if what he plans to do with the farm and ethanol subsidies, but he damned sure went after the subsidies to dirty stinking oil companies. God bless him for that.

Then I hope we don't see a post by you complaining about $4 a gallon gasoline; or the fact that prices of corn and other ethanol producing veggies are skyrocketing for no good reason.

Just remember, most all of the new alternative fuels will be produced by "energy companies".....that means those that are into oil now.

OklahomaTuba
1/26/2011, 12:40 PM
maybe they remembered his announcement of a 3 year spending freeze last year...Or maybe they were wondering how that Gitmo closing was going??

Sooner_Bob
1/26/2011, 12:43 PM
does that mean the Mrs. can't fly off to Paris to go shopping?

Exactly.

Good thing the Bears didn't make the Super Bowl . . . that trip alone would've cost taxpayers a nice chunk of change.

OklahomaTuba
1/26/2011, 12:44 PM
I was just glad to know that our economy is being held hostage because of a lack of high-speed rail.

JohnnyMack
1/26/2011, 12:47 PM
Or maybe they were wondering how that Gitmo closing was going??

You can and be cute all you want, but the truth is neither Republicans or Democrats are truly interested in spending less.

OklahomaTuba
1/26/2011, 12:55 PM
You can and be cute all you want, but the truth is neither Republicans or Democrats are truly interested in spending less.Actually I'd be happy if we could get back to the fiscal moderation of the Bush era.

soonerhubs
1/26/2011, 12:56 PM
You can be cute all you want, but the truth is neither Republicans or Democrats are truly interested in spending less.


This!

virginiasooner
1/26/2011, 12:59 PM
Actually I'd be happy if we could get back to the fiscal moderation of the Bush era.

Do you mean go back to the $50 billion (or so) surplus of 2001 or the $1.2 (or so) trillion deficit of 2007?

OUMallen
1/26/2011, 01:00 PM
Tuba, sheeeeet, man. From Cato:


Um, what? The president who

expanded federal spending by more than a trillion dollars a year, before his disastrous last hundred days
federalized education
laid out “a smorgasbord of handouts and subsidies for virtually every energy lobby in Washington.”
protected the steel, agriculture, and textile industries from foreign competition
backed farm bills with lavish subsidies for producers
created the biggest new entitlement since Lyndon Johnson
bailed out Bear Stearns, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, AIG, Bank of America, Citigroup, and dozens of other banks
provided government support for mortgages, credit cards, auto loans and other consumer debt, and
bailed out Chrysler and General Motors in direct defiance of Congress’s refusal to do so
now says that his successor is about to “replace the risk-and-reward model of the private sector” with “too much government involvement”? Shouldn’t President Bush be doing penance in a monastery somewhere, rather than embarrass the free-market cause by pretending that he wasn’t the biggest-government president in decades?

virginiasooner
1/26/2011, 01:18 PM
Tuba, sheeeeet, man. From Cato:


Um, what? The president who
. . .

?

OUMallen, you obviously don't understand. Just because Bush was president at same time all those things were happening, doesn't make it his fault. The economic downturn was the result of the Clinton tax increases back in 1993. And besides, Bush is a Republican, and white! He's not an elitist -- he went to Yale and Harvard. Obama is an evil Democrat, and socialist, and in case you haven't noticed, he's not white. He's as elitist as they come -- he went to Columbia and Harvard. And got good grades!

OUMallen
1/26/2011, 01:21 PM
All this stuff is just so confusing. I'll just assume Tuba is right to make it easier. :)

sappstuf
1/26/2011, 01:34 PM
Do you mean go back to the $50 billion (or so) surplus of 2001 or the $1.2 (or so) trillion deficit of 2007?

Bush averaged about 400 billion of annual deficit throughout his time in office. I wasn't happy about that.

Obama is averaging about 1.3 trillion...

So as sad as it is, Tuba is right. Bush's fiscal "restraint" would be nice right now.

And if you think things are going to get better, the CBO just released their updated projection of the FY2011 deficit. Last year they projected a tad under a trillion dollar deficit. With the updated projection they moved it to 1.5 trillion dollars in 2011.

What’s a $500 billion, 50 percent error among friends? :eek:

Sooner_Bob
1/26/2011, 01:36 PM
OUMallen, you obviously don't understand. Just because Bush was president at same time all those things were happening, doesn't make it his fault. The economic downturn was the result of the Clinton tax increases back in 1993. And besides, Bush is a Republican, and white! He's not an elitist -- he went to Yale and Harvard. Obama is an evil Democrat, and socialist, and in case you haven't noticed, he's only half white. He's as elitist as they come -- he went to Columbia and Harvard. And got good grades!

FIFY

Sooner_Bob
1/26/2011, 01:37 PM
Here's a thought . . . cut back on foreign aide. That's probably a nice chunk of change.

pphilfran
1/26/2011, 01:42 PM
Here's a thought . . . cut back on foreign aide. That's probably a nice chunk of change.

International affairs....37.5 billion in 2009, up from 28.8 billion in 2008...

Table 3.2

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals/

sappstuf
1/26/2011, 01:44 PM
To put it another way, Obama is running 1.3 trillion annual deficits and he wants to freeze that spending into place for the next 5 years.

Brilliant.

Not even that. As Phil pointed out, he is really only talking about freezing 15% of the budget, the other 85% could and will increase in spending.

More brilliance.

The self proclaimed "Party of Science" sure has a difficult time with math..

Sooner_Bob
1/26/2011, 01:52 PM
International affairs....37.5 billion in 2009, up from 28.8 billion in 2008...

Table 3.2

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals/


I wonder if that number includes what DoD provides in foreign assistance . . .

soonerbrat
1/26/2011, 02:08 PM
Didn't see your post Sapp. I try to buy 100% gasoline so as not to help subsidize those stinkin, rotten, ethanol producers that Obama seems so enamored with....even though the EPA says ethanol is dirtier than gasoline.

God Bless those wonderful oil companies, heroes of American industry, that continue to provide energy for our country over the mindless objections of those who seek to destroy us.

I buy 100% gasoline because when I buy the stuff with ethanol, it makes my engine light go on. my car does. not. want.

plus I work for an oil company :D

virginiasooner
1/26/2011, 02:10 PM
I wonder if that number includes what DoD provides in foreign assistance . . .

If you mean the loans the American government gives other countries to buy American armaments, I'd guess not.

OklahomaTuba
1/26/2011, 02:37 PM
Bush averaged about 400 billion of annual deficit throughout his time in office. I wasn't happy about that.

Obama is averaging about 1.3 trillion...

So as sad as it is, Tuba is right. Bush's fiscal "restraint" would be nice right now.

This is out of date, but still a nice illustration. Unfortunatly, the squanderer in chief has made it worse.

http://www.onlineinvestingai.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/obama-budget-deficit.jpg

OklahomaTuba
1/26/2011, 02:39 PM
All this stuff is just so confusing. I'll just assume Tuba is right to make it easier. :)That is usually the safe and correct assumption. :)

okie52
1/26/2011, 02:44 PM
I buy 100% gasoline because when I buy the stuff with ethanol, it makes my engine light go on. my car does. not. want.

plus I work for an oil company :D

You are an American hero.

Sooner_Bob
1/26/2011, 02:44 PM
If you mean the loans the American government gives other countries to buy American armaments, I'd guess not.

No I mean what the DoD spends on aiding countries during a disaster.

Maintaining the USNS Mercy (http://www.med.navy.mil/sites/usnsmercy/Pages/default.aspx) can't be cheap . . . .

sappstuf
1/26/2011, 02:46 PM
This is out of date, but still a nice illustration. Unfortunatly, the squanderer in chief has made it worse.

http://www.onlineinvestingai.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/obama-budget-deficit.jpg

You can see on that graph that the White House estimate for FY2011 was about a $900 billion deficit. They were only off by $600 billion. :O That should tell you all you need to know about this White House estimates when it comes to health care reform...

fwsooner22
1/26/2011, 02:50 PM
Isn't it interesting that the folks who thought it was hilarious to make fun of Bush for just about anything simply can't handle the same treatment for "their guy".

okie52
1/26/2011, 02:50 PM
OUMallen, you obviously don't understand. Just because Bush was president at same time all those things were happening, doesn't make it his fault. The economic downturn was the result of the Clinton tax increases back in 1993. And besides, Bush is a Republican, and white! He's not an elitist -- he went to Yale and Harvard. Obama is an evil Democrat, and socialist, and in case you haven't noticed, he's not white. He's as elitist as they come -- he went to Columbia and Harvard. And got good grades!

Clinton deserves credit for his surpluses and W for his deficits. Now we certainly couldn't hold Obama accountable for his budgets, could we?

TheHumanAlphabet
1/26/2011, 02:52 PM
I'll pay attention when a politician calls for a budget CUT!!! not a spending freeze. Cut the damn budget, stop spending and killl useless programs.

virginiasooner
1/26/2011, 03:06 PM
I'll pay attention when a politician calls for a budget CUT!!! not a spending freeze. Cut the damn budget, stop spending and killl useless programs.

What useless program? Social Security? I for one don't want my in-laws (or my own parents) living with me, or out on the street. Medicare? Can you really live with the image of Grandma dying on the steam grate because she can't find a nursing home to take her? FAA? I like the fact that pilots have to be tested for fitness to fly, not to mention air traffic controllers preventing planes from colliding in the sky and on the ground. Food inspectors? Read "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair and you'll never look at a steak the same way again. EPA? I take it you don't remember the Cuyahoga River catching on fire back in the 1960s, and you don't recall the color of smog. Be thankful that the air you breathe is clean, the water you drink won't make you sick, and your next dinner won't kill you because a corporation wanted to make an extra penny a pound.

bonkuba
1/26/2011, 03:24 PM
After reading through all this maybe the thought of useless programs might be to get rid of the waste on all of the entitlement programs (as a start). I don't have any hard data to back what I am saying....however it just makes sense.

For instance, welfare should be for folks that actually need the assistance. Who determines who is in need? Well, it should be easy to weed out folks that squirt out babies for more $$....just one example. I am sure there are more. Don't wanna work because your big toe hurts?.....tough......work.

Cut unemployment altogether or cut it down to maybe 90 days at the most. There is no reason for someone to need more than that. If you cant find the job you want by then....take a job that is available and do whatever it takes to support your family.....and before someone says that there are no jobs....bull****....they are out there....you may not want to do that job....but they are out there. Paying for someone to lay around the house and "looking" for a job makes my blood boil. I don't want my $$ spent to support someone to lazy to swat flies off his ***.

Again, I am not an authority on any of the above....but by utilizing common sense there should be tons of $$ to be cut and/or saved. I own a small business (3.5 mill/year).....and if I operated the way our government does (pub or dim) I would be out of business in 6 months.

At this point I dont trust any politician.....it's all about greed and power...and I am sick of it. I wish they could all be thrown out on their *** and we could start over....maybe term limits for EVERYONE.

Thanks for letting me rant..... :D

bonkuba
1/26/2011, 03:29 PM
What useless program? Social Security? I for one don't want my in-laws (or my own parents) living with me, or out on the street. Medicare? Can you really live with the image of Grandma dying on the steam grate because she can't find a nursing home to take her? FAA? I like the fact that pilots have to be tested for fitness to fly, not to mention air traffic controllers preventing planes from colliding in the sky and on the ground. Food inspectors? Read "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair and you'll never look at a steak the same way again. EPA? I take it you don't remember the Cuyahoga River catching on fire back in the 1960s, and you don't recall the color of smog. Be thankful that the air you breathe is clean, the water you drink won't make you sick, and your next dinner won't kill you because a corporation wanted to make an extra penny a pound.

I would never consider SS a useless program. If you paid into it....you get it. The politicians that approved pulling MUCH money away from SS...need to pay it back or have their Grandma out in the cold. The Grandma piece I say in jest......but I believe if you dont pay in then you dont deserve one dime of the money I and others have contributed......unless your spouse has passed away, then I believe you should keep getting his/her SS $$.

pphilfran
1/26/2011, 04:04 PM
I would never consider SS a useless program. If you paid into it....you get it. The politicians that approved pulling MUCH money away from SS...need to pay it back or have their Grandma out in the cold. The Grandma piece I say in jest......but I believe if you dont pay in then you dont deserve one dime of the money I and others have contributed......unless your spouse has passed away, then I believe you should keep getting his/her SS $$.

If the fed had never taken a penny out of the trust fund it would still be in the same position...

It still has the exact same value (special issue bonds)...

Now, the overall national debt is higher because they raided the fund..but that is a whole different animal to look at...

R@bidred
1/26/2011, 04:17 PM
splains it better.
http://vodpod.com/watch/1567546-obama-budget-cuts-visualization

TheHumanAlphabet
1/26/2011, 05:21 PM
I buy 100% gasoline because when I buy the stuff with ethanol, it makes my engine light go on. my car does. not. want.

plus I work for an oil company :D

Wish I could find some of that unadulterated petrol here in Texas. Has to be oxygenated, meaning has to have ethanol. And yes, 10% e will eff up your motor. Loawn mower engines are going crappy here. Wait to you see 15% e, Tea Party will be a minor issue compared to the uproar when this hits the market...

TheHumanAlphabet
1/26/2011, 05:23 PM
What useless program?

I am sure we can find a few out there. Make a commission and figure out a few to kill off. I won't name any here, someone will say this and that is important. Set up a BRACK style commission and kill off a few programs.

pphilfran
1/26/2011, 05:27 PM
Wish I could find some of that unadulterated petrol here in Texas. Has to be oxygenated, meaning has to have ethanol. And yes, 10% e will eff up your motor. Loawn mower engines are going crappy here. Wait to you see 15% e, Tea Party will be a minor issue compared to the uproar when this hits the market...

At least it ain't MTBE....

OklahomaTuba
1/26/2011, 05:27 PM
Clinton deserves credit for his surpluses and W for his deficits.The only thing Clinton had to do with the surplus was gutting our military and intelligence infrastructure and letting the tech bubble get out of hand.

The majority of the debt in the next decade is a direct result of all that. The tech bubble crashing, 9/11 and the GWOT.

So yes, the impeached one deserves a lot of credit.

okie52
1/26/2011, 05:32 PM
The only thing Clinton had to do with the surplus was gutting our military and intelligence infrastructure and letting the tech bubble get out of hand.

The majority of the debt in the next decade is a direct result of all that. The tech bubble crashing, 9/11 and the GWOT.

So yes, the impeached one deserves a lot of credit.

You can't avoid giving credit to Clinton for his surpluses, even if he rode the coattails of the tech bubble and W ate his recession. And, Clinton was working with a repub congress so they deserve some of the credit, too.

Likewise, Obama is due all credit for his deficits.

OklahomaTuba
1/26/2011, 05:44 PM
Ahh yes, I remember the "Peace Dividend" like it was yesterday.

JohnnyMack
1/26/2011, 05:52 PM
You can't avoid giving credit to Clinton for his surpluses, even if he rode the coattails of the tech bubble and W ate his recession. And, Clinton was working with a repub congress so they deserve some of the credit, too.

Likewise, Obama is due all credit for his deficits.

I know you're kind of new here, but Tuba isn't exactly rational. So take that for what it's worth.

JohnnyMack
1/26/2011, 05:53 PM
The only thing Clinton had to do with the surplus was gutting our military and intelligence infrastructure and letting the tech bubble get out of hand.

The majority of the debt in the next decade is a direct result of all that. The tech bubble crashing, 9/11 and the GWOT.

So yes, the impeached one deserves a lot of credit.

09/11 is Clinton's fault? You're just an imbecile. No. Wait. You're a no-talent *** clown.

soonercoop1
1/26/2011, 08:30 PM
All those people you are gonna watch tonight (R and D) don't give a damn what you peons think. But by all means, keep slashing each others throats and enjoy the show. ;)

Agreed that neither party has America's best interests at heart...unfortunately nothing will change and will only become worse...

MR2-Sooner86
1/26/2011, 08:53 PM
What useless program?

Department of Education
Department of Agriculture
Department of Energy
Department of Homeland Security
Department of Housing and Urban Development
FEMA
D.E.A.
ATF

There are many, many more. A couple of the above don't need to be completely thrown out but they need to be gutted a whole lot along with many other departments.


09/11 is Clinton's fault?

He shares some blame as he didn't take out Osama when he had the chance in Sudan.

bigfatjerk
1/28/2011, 04:12 PM
The thing is that neither party will be real popular if they basically go after entitlement spending and defense spending. Which is what we need to do because those are the big monsters of the budget.

We have to reform entitlements and start reigning in the military. That's where our budget is really big. And neither party will really go after both of those.

The republican party with the tea party movement claims to want to go after it, but if they really try to the democrats will do what they did in the 90s and say that the republicans are trying to throw old people under the bus when that's not what the debate is about. We have to go after the big 2 things that are sacred in politics right now.

We need to cut the military way down. I think the taking it out of Europe may be enough alone. But we also have to make sure and reform entitlement so that it won't be completely broke 30 years from now. Within 15-20 years over 100% of the budget will be going to Military and entitlements. The only way to solve this issue will be to cut entitlements and raise taxes like crazy which is what is happening in Europe. We need to change this before this happens.

JohnnyMack
1/28/2011, 04:34 PM
He shares some blame as he didn't take out Osama when he had the chance in Sudan.

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/did_bill_clinton_pass_up_a_chance_1.html

That's not really true.

sappstuf
1/28/2011, 05:40 PM
http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/did_bill_clinton_pass_up_a_chance_1.html

That's not really true.

Amazing that factcheck.org can make many assumptions from information that came from Sandy Berger and not mention Sandy Berger's legal troubles in reference to this case.

If you do not remember Sandy Berger, he was caught literally stuffing original classified documents into his socks and underwear from the National Archives and taking them out and destroying them. He admitted his guilt. This was done just prior to the 9/11 commission as good ol' Sandy was working for Clinton to get their side of the story to the commission.

Then when the Bar Association wanted to question him about his conduct as a lawyer, he voluntarily gave up his law license and therefore did not have to answer any of their questions.

So when factcheck.org says:


Unless further evidence arises, that has to be the final word.

They should at least mention why it is very unlikely that any further evidence will ever arise.

JohnnyMack
1/28/2011, 07:30 PM
Amazing that factcheck.org can make many assumptions from information that came from Sandy Berger and not mention Sandy Berger's legal troubles in reference to this case.

If you do not remember Sandy Berger, he was caught literally stuffing original classified documents into his socks and underwear from the National Archives and taking them out and destroying them. He admitted his guilt. This was done just prior to the 9/11 commission as good ol' Sandy was working for Clinton to get their side of the story to the commission.

Then when the Bar Association wanted to question him about his conduct as a lawyer, he voluntarily gave up his law license and therefore did not have to answer any of their questions.

So when factcheck.org says:



They should at least mention why it is very unlikely that any further evidence will ever arise.

What you're referencing did happen, but he didn't take documents related to this conversation that I'm talking about.

What you end up with is a scumbag Sudanese politician covering his *** at the same time an American scumbag politician is trying to cover his.

We may never know what happened in that hotel room, but you're trying to link that event to something totally separate.

Even if the Sudanese government had offered OBL, what would we have indicted him for at that time? We had nothing on him.

sappstuf
1/29/2011, 12:10 AM
What you're referencing did happen, but he didn't take documents related to this conversation that I'm talking about.

What you end up with is a scumbag Sudanese politician covering his *** at the same time an American scumbag politician is trying to cover his.

We may never know what happened in that hotel room, but you're trying to link that event to something totally separate.

Even if the Sudanese government had offered OBL, what would we have indicted him for at that time? We had nothing on him.

We do know he stole original, uncatalogued, highly classified terrorism documents. He stole five copies of the same document and destroyed three of them. We have electronic copies of those reports, but what he took were the originals that was passed from the president to his cabinet and the notes that were made on them.

We don't know what he else he took. We do know that Nancy Kegan Smith, who directed the Archives' presidential documents staff said she:


would never know what if any original documents were missing

As far as your last question, it is a good one. I wonder if the answer was in the uncatalogued unknowable memos he stole and destroyed.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
1/29/2011, 10:16 AM
Actually I'd be happy if we could get back to the fiscal moderation of the Bush era.We elected the inmates to run the asylum, starting in '06, and my, what wonderful service they've given us since. Thanks Barney, Chris, Harry and Nancy, Barack and Rahm, and Joe Biden, of course. This Land is Your Land.

soonercruiser
1/29/2011, 11:10 PM
Department of Education
Department of Agriculture
Department of Energy
Department of Homeland Security
Department of Housing and Urban Development
FEMA
D.E.A.
ATF

There are many, many more. A couple of the above don't need to be completely thrown out but they need to be gutted a whole lot along with many other departments.

He shares some blame as he didn't take out Osama when he had the chance in Sudan.

Be kind to Billie! He was just too distracted by that Blue Dress!
"I did not have sex with that woman'!
It depends on the meaning of what sex is".

soonercruiser
1/29/2011, 11:15 PM
What you're referencing did happen, but he didn't take documents related to this conversation that I'm talking about.

What you end up with is a scumbag Sudanese politician covering his *** at the same time an American scumbag politician is trying to cover his.

We may never know what happened in that hotel room, but you're trying to link that event to something totally separate.

Even if the Sudanese government had offered OBL, what would we have indicted him for at that time? We had nothing on him.

So Johnny Mack - you sayin' Sandy Burger is to be believed???
Duh! Great source!
He's a crook and LIAR, just like Clintons!
:rolleyes: