View Full Version : Does Coach Stoops need 1 more Natl Title...
Collier11
1/21/2011, 01:31 AM
to be considered an All-Time Great or has he done enough over his first 12 years to garner that respect?
Six-Seasons of 12 or more wins in 12 years
Nine- Seasons of 11 or more wins in 12 years
Seven- Conference Titles in 12 Years
Eight- BCS game Appearances in 12 years
Four- National Title Appearances in 12 years
41-17 vs Top 25 Teams
13-9 vs Top 10 Teams
1 National Title
ouwasp
1/21/2011, 01:39 AM
In the eyes of the Sooner Nation, Coach Stoops is great; look at the nightmare he brought football out of.
On a national basis, I'd say OU needs to win another mnc (or two) under his watch to get the "great" label.
Collier11
1/21/2011, 01:40 AM
Id agree 100%...in the eyes of myself and other Sooner fans, its easy to see just how amazing his run at OU has been...nationally, he doesnt get near enough respect for what he has done in 12 years. Consistency breeds contempt I guess
yermom
1/21/2011, 01:41 AM
meh. look at how ESPN gets choked up every time they mention Schembechler.
he never even won one, did he?
Stoops has gotten overshadowed by Urban Meyer, Pete Carroll and Mack Brown to some extent.
they are non-issues at this point though. he's still owning the Big 12.
Mack Brown may be back, but his run of 10 win seasons is over and they have a lot of rebuilding to do
i guess there is Tressel and Saban too, but the scandals are running deep for The Sweater Vest right now and Saban's job hopping kinda keeps him looking as consistent IMO
Collier11
1/21/2011, 01:57 AM
thats what I dont get, maybe its cus Mack is typically all warm and fuzzy to the media but how he gets any pub over Stoops is baffling. He wins recruiting battles and has 3 conf titles in what, over 30 years of coaching
yermom
1/21/2011, 02:02 AM
winning that 2005 title and the Rose and Fiesta Bowls didn't hurt with those 10+ win seasons
not to mention the head-to-head with Stoops after our 5 in a row
2005 is still pretty recent compared to 2000
Collier11
1/21/2011, 02:05 AM
Stoops is 7-5 vs Mack. Mack did have 3 nice wins in BCS games, ill give him that
yermom
1/21/2011, 02:08 AM
yeah, but from 2005 to 2009 Mack was 4-1
obviously everyone beat them this year though
Collier11
1/21/2011, 02:10 AM
and barring a major upset, Stoops will be 8-5 vs Mack after this coming season...7-3 when both teams are ranked and 3-1 when both teams are in the Top 10...Mack is good but he isnt Stoops
SteelClip49
1/21/2011, 02:11 AM
1 more title and Stoops will be considered an all time great but it has to be an undefeated national title. Tom Osborne was the last to accomplish more than 1 undefeated national title.
Coaches to have more than 1 undefeated national title:
Osborne- 1994, 1995, 1997
Bear Bryant- 1961, 1979
Devaney- 1970, 1971
Royal- 1963, 1969
Parseghian- 1966, 1973
Hayes- 1954, 1968
McKay- 1962, 1972
Wilkinson- 1955, 1956
Leahy- 1946, 1947, 1949
Bierman- 1940, 1941
Stoops would be in great company if he was to pull that off.
sperry
1/21/2011, 02:49 AM
Yes. With one title he's tied with a bunch of unmemorable coaches, like Larry Coker, Phil Fulmer, and Lloyd Carr. Winning a 2nd title puts you among the all-time greats.
DCsooner22
1/21/2011, 08:06 AM
I ask this not to belittle Mack - b/c I do think he is a good coach, and he is not evil like :les: - and Mack has certainly had a down year. But, if the media and all the college football "experts" think Mack is that much better than Stoops, why do I never hear Mack to "__insert school, pro football team, etc. here__"?
Is it age? "They" don't think Oklahoma is a destination job? I just never hear "Mack to anywhere" as much as you do Stoops.
But, I agree with others. Stoops will always be "my" coach from "my" era who saved OU football from the depths of mediocrity. My freshman year was Smellsofbourbon, and then I had to sit through the REAL dark ages before the Saviour Stoops entered a new age of whip-azz. In my eyes, he will always be one of the great ones, but... yes, on the national stage, he needs another title to solidify his legacy.
Soonermagik
1/21/2011, 08:12 AM
Stoops is 7-5 vs Mack. Mack did have 3 nice wins in BCS games, ill give him that
So, does Stoops. The Orange Bowl against FSU, the Rose Bowl against Washington State and the Fiesta Bowl against Uconn. Just saying.:D
I do think Stoops needs another NC to be in the same category as Saban. IMHO, he really needs to beat an SEC team in the title game like LSU in their backyard. If he does that, then he had an amazing run.
oumartin
1/21/2011, 08:16 AM
Stoops needs one more IMO and next year might be his best shot. Worried about the Seminoles however.
The reason I dont' think you have ever heard Mack to such and such place is due to the money Texas has. They can afford to pay him any amount of coin to stay plus his age. He's pushin' 60. I think thats one reason you don't hear the Stoops to the NFL much anymore. Bob is now 50 and I think that has a small effect. The only job you hear Stoops going to is Florida and I think that ship has sailed for the last time this time around.
sooner518
1/21/2011, 08:37 AM
I ask this not to belittle Mack - b/c I do think he is a good coach, and he is not evil like :les: - and Mack has certainly had a down year. But, if the media and all the college football "experts" think Mack is that much better than Stoops, why do I never hear Mack to "__insert school, pro football team, etc. here__"?
Is it age? "They" don't think Oklahoma is a destination job? I just never hear "Mack to anywhere" as much as you do Stoops.
But, I agree with others. Stoops will always be "my" coach from "my" era who saved OU football from the depths of mediocrity. My freshman year was Smellsofbourbon, and then I had to sit through the REAL dark ages before the Saviour Stoops entered a new age of whip-azz. In my eyes, he will always be one of the great ones, but... yes, on the national stage, he needs another title to solidify his legacy.
1) Mack is older than Stoops. He's probably pretty close to retiring. No one's gonna offer a job to a dude that close to retirement.
2) Texas is basically the cushiest job in the country. Huge money. Huge fanbase. Great facilities. Easy recruiting (open up your junior camp, offer 30 guys and get 25 lifelong Horn fans to commit in a 2 week period).
3) Mack has been a very good coach at UT, but he hasnt won anywhere else. Stoops was a hot commodity coming up thru the coaching ranks and I think is more highly regarded as being able to win wherever he is.
From a purely rational standpoint, Texas is probably the best college job in the country. Why would you leave that unless you wanted to try the NFL?
OU, while a top-tier job for sure, doesnt have the same money. It doesnt have a fanbase as huge. The recruiting is definitely more difficult. Plus Stoops is younger than Mack, has ties to Florida, the SEC, as well as the Ohio/Iowa areas. Any time a job opens up in either of those areas, a somewhat young guy like Stoops will be considered because he's won everywhere he's been.
SC Sooner
1/21/2011, 08:57 AM
2 more NCs, will solidfy him nationally. b2b would be fantastic, though that's probably more difficult now than it's ever been.
swardboy
1/21/2011, 09:04 AM
Stinks, but I think it takes two also. Small state bias sucks.
Plus it puts him in upper stratosphere with Bud and Barry...legend.
I'll always love Stoops for embracing Barry and Sooner legends.
to be considered an All-Time Great or has he done enough over his first 12 years to garner that respect?
Six-Seasons of 12 or more wins in 12 years
Nine- Seasons of 11 or more wins in 12 years
Seven- Conference Titles in 12 Years
Eight- BCS game Appearances in 12 years
Four- National Title Appearances in 12 years
41-17 vs Top 25 Teams
13-9 vs Top 10 Teams
1 National Title
Bob has done a very successful job, but in Sooner football terms greatness is measured by National Titles - conference titles are the expected norm.
BOOMER
texaspokieokie
1/21/2011, 10:25 AM
Sooner518
mack did pretty well @ NC, primarily a basketball school. obviously, or he wouldn't have gotten tx job.
Stoops had great career in the making,but had not been a HC.
hiring him looked good,but had to be "taking a chance".
JMHO, Stoops needs another MNC, or 2.
Mad Dog Madsen
1/21/2011, 10:26 AM
YES.
soonerloyal
1/21/2011, 10:32 AM
I'd like for Stoops to be the Sooner coach that brings home the first three-peat National Championship. That would certainly befit his talent, our dynasty - and shut the stupid people the eff up.
OUthunder
1/21/2011, 11:40 AM
I think the more important question is this... how good would Stoops have been at Texas compared to Mack? That is a VERY scary thought for a Sooner fan.
Thankfully, we'll never have to find out.
yermom
1/21/2011, 11:55 AM
part of the problem is that he's at Oklahoma
he's always going to be compared to Barry and Bud
if he had gone to aTm or KState somewhere similar and done the same things he's done at Oklahoma so far, he'd be a legend already. probably Texas too.
KantoSooner
1/21/2011, 11:59 AM
Bob already deserves to be included with Owen, Wilkinson and Switzer; to be a true 'legend' however, I'd say he needs another crystal football.
And 2011 would be a very good time to get it.
olevetonahill
1/21/2011, 11:59 AM
Yea Yermom, But he didnt have to follow either of em. BS is already ranked up there with Bud an Barry.
Now he only needs 5 more MNCs in the next 6 years :cool:
yermom
1/21/2011, 12:08 PM
if he's not, he's close
it's tougher to win now
oudavid1
1/21/2011, 12:13 PM
YES.
Not Really.
SoonerOX
1/21/2011, 12:19 PM
I too think that in the eyes of sooner nation, Stoops is already one of the great coaches that has coached at OU. While it is true that coaches such as Nick Saban and Urban Meyer have somewhat overshadowed Stoops, he is almost always mentioned in the same conversation. Sure he's had his share of issues in the BCS, but he's also had successes, and even the media acknowledge that. Stoops is already a demi-god, one more MNC and he gets promoted to full god.
texaspokieokie
1/21/2011, 12:24 PM
eye of beholder
MyT Oklahoma
1/21/2011, 01:49 PM
Stinks, but I think it takes two also. Small state bias sucks.
Plus it puts him in upper stratosphere with Bud and Barry...legend.
I'll always love Stoops for embracing Barry and Sooner legends.
^^ This. Three is always the magic number in Norman.
P.S. Devaney was not "undefeated" in 1970, somebody tied NU that year I think. "Unbeaten" is not undefeated.
agoo758
1/21/2011, 02:12 PM
Already an all-time great in my eyes. If he goes to only one MNC and wins it, that's not even debated. But because he goes to four and is 1-3 he is only considered good, obviously insane logic.
If Steve Spurrier is considered a great despite repeated losses to Florida State and if Bowden is considered great despite repeated losses to Miami, than Stoops is great despite this recent trend of MNC losses, and that trend can change around quickly, see Tom Osbourne in the 90's.
Like the great Marv Levy said, the best way not to lose a Championship is to never go.
sperry
1/21/2011, 02:17 PM
^^ This. Three is always the magic number in Norman.
P.S. Devaney was not "undefeated" in 1970, somebody tied NU that year I think. "Unbeaten" is not undefeated.
A tie is not a defeat.
agoo758
1/21/2011, 02:18 PM
Side question, back in the days when tie's were in place, what would a 0-0-11 record do for you? :pop:
Bob has done a very successful job, but in Sooner football terms greatness is measured by National Titles - conference titles are the expected norm.
BOOMER
This.
And I agree with some others about being great in the eyes of sooner nation but not nationally and the only way he gets national love again is to win another national title.
Breadburner
1/21/2011, 03:05 PM
He already has 2.....
I'm sure others have expressed this in the past, but I think in terms of perception Stoops is a little bit the victim of his own early success.
If he'd brought OU out of darkness a little more slowly and won his mnc, say, in '08, he would have been considered a great coach who hadn't quite won the big one -- and then '08 (in this hypothetical situation) would have capped his greatness in people's (ie the media) minds. He could have the exact same cumulative record, conference championships, etc., and nobody would be asking if he needed another mnc.
As things happened, he was seen as an otherworldly miracle-worker after '00, and so by comparison being consistently excellent for the last 10 years seems like a letdown.
All of this to say that I think time and perspective will erase the distortion. If he quit today and never coached again, in 10 years people would look back at his total resume and rank him in the elite, IMO.
stoopified
1/21/2011, 06:13 PM
to be considered an All-Time Great or has he done enough over his first 12 years to garner that respect?
Six-Seasons of 12 or more wins in 12 years
Nine- Seasons of 11 or more wins in 12 years
Seven- Conference Titles in 12 Years
Eight- BCS game Appearances in 12 years
Four- National Title Appearances in 12 years
41-17 vs Top 25 Teams
13-9 vs Top 10 Teams
1 National TitleI aswered this question for myself a couple of years ago when I started referring to the Stoops era as the 3rd Sooner dynasty.
BigTip
1/21/2011, 06:27 PM
Strange how the majority agree that another title is needed. Is BEING in FOUR title games not enough? 33% of your seasons you are playing for the national title and you are not an all time great coach?
No. Not yet. The Buffalo Bills got to four straight Super Bowls. Actually an amazing achievement. Yet they are not regarded as a great dynasty because they won zero of those.
Winning it all this next year will go along way in sealing Bob's legacy.
MyT Oklahoma
1/21/2011, 08:19 PM
A tie is not a defeat.
I agree that a tie is not a defeat but that also makes one unbeaten not undefeated.
texaspokieokie
1/22/2011, 09:33 AM
Side question, back in the days when tie's were in place, what would a 0-0-11 record do for you? :pop:
that's a .500 season.
texaspokieokie
1/22/2011, 09:34 AM
I agree that a tie is not a defeat but that also makes one unbeaten not undefeated.
unbeaten & undefeated look the same to me.
Okrunman
1/22/2011, 09:45 AM
meh. look at how ESPN gets choked up every time they mention Schembechler.
he never even won one, did he?
He coached Miami to a National Championship in 1983, defeating Nebraska in the 50th Orange Bowl
Saul Good
1/22/2011, 10:20 AM
He coached Miami to a National Championship in 1983, defeating Nebraska in the 50th Orange Bowl
???? Schembechler or Schnellenberger? Try again
Collier11
1/22/2011, 11:56 AM
Whats crazy and a little depressing to think about is how close Stoops is to having 3 national titles in 12 years and being a top 4 or 5 coach of all time...already
Flying Scotsman
1/22/2011, 01:43 PM
He'll get another one or two. Therefore, the question was moot before it was asked.
boomermagic
1/22/2011, 02:41 PM
Stinks, but I think it takes two also. Small state bias sucks.
Plus it puts him in upper stratosphere with Bud and Barry...legend.
I'll always love Stoops for embracing Barry and Sooner legends.
I agree two more MNC.. As far as Stoops embracing Barry's tenure he had no choice.. After what we had with smellsofbourbon and Boren and Barry are close so it is going to be that way as long a Boren is the president.. Let's face it Barry really is THE KING.. Bob needs to win 2 more.. I mean no disrespect to Bob whatsoever he's a very good coach but he can't match Barry IMO.. Barry is my favorite..
soonerbub
1/22/2011, 03:58 PM
Switzer won it all in his 13th year
will Stoops??? (he matched Barry in year 2 but missed out year 3 thanks to aggie ****)
that's the test to see if he's building a castle or a outhouse ;)
heh this is post #47
texaspokieokie
1/22/2011, 04:40 PM
Switzer took over a team that had done much better.
72 & 73 @ 11-1 each.
a coach is not a king. that's silly.
besides, how bout 31 & then 47 in a row.
Bud was no slouch.
soonerbub
1/22/2011, 04:59 PM
a coach is not a king. that's silly
BLASPHEMER
http://stores.xnicstore.com/catalog/CLBSRO3.jpg
'73 was 10-0-1 btw
texaspokieokie
1/22/2011, 05:05 PM
my bad; i meant 71 & 72.
73 was his 1st year.
was elvis also a king.
soonerbub
1/22/2011, 05:14 PM
hell naw he didn't even win one ring :cool:
that hip-shakin' sumbitch coulda made All-American at DB tho ;)
MamaMia
1/23/2011, 05:06 AM
I would think he is much greater than I already believe he is, if he won a NC. I also think it would bring him more sex appeal.
wishbonesooner
1/23/2011, 09:23 AM
The BCS losses hurt Bob's rep nationally. Mayer and Saban have 2 titles, Bob needs another to stay with those two. I know I need another....
boomermagic
1/23/2011, 11:20 AM
Just win us another one Bob !!!
boomermagic
1/23/2011, 11:21 AM
my bad; i meant 71 & 72.
73 was his 1st year.
was elvis also a king.
Ah YES !!
boomermagic
1/23/2011, 11:22 AM
The BCS losses hurt Bob's rep nationally. Mayer and Saban have 2 titles, Bob needs another to stay with those two. I know I need another....
This !
boomermagic
1/23/2011, 11:26 AM
Bud won 3 Barry won 3 Bob needs 3 to be up there with the two best he will alway's be third otherwise face it..
SoCaliSooner
1/23/2011, 12:58 PM
He needs at least two more. Between USC, LSU, Florida, Saban, Myer....Bob needs 2 more to elevate above all of them.
What folks don't talk about are the number of MNC's Switzer lost -
I think '77, '78, '86, and '87 can be chalked up as MNC losses.
Then, in '73 he got robbed because of NCAA sanctions.
BOOMER
OUEngr1990
1/23/2011, 08:04 PM
Stoops needs another 5 national championships :D
85sooners
1/23/2011, 09:01 PM
Stoops is good
My vision: three coaches with three national championships
Big BOOMER
boomermagic
1/23/2011, 11:37 PM
Switzer took over a team that had done much better.
72 & 73 @ 11-1 each.
a coach is not a king. that's silly.
besides, how bout 31 & then 47 in a row.
Bud was no slouch.
Where you been boy ? You don't know that Barry is the king ? Yeah, Bud wasn't no slouch he was the King before Barry came along and tied his NC record and won as many games. Bud was great that's for sure. Barry is known as the King in these parts boy..:D
texaspokieokie
1/24/2011, 09:41 AM
i'm from "these parts" boy.:D
boomermagic
1/24/2011, 02:12 PM
i'm from "these parts" boy.:D
Pay Tention Son ! You be one o them thar City Slickers boy ?;)
WA. Sooner
1/25/2011, 04:36 AM
YEP and needs to be at least 500 in BCS games
texaspokieokie
1/25/2011, 08:16 AM
Pay Tention Son ! You be one o them thar City Slickers boy ?;)
yep, the great city of okmulgee !!!!!
boomermagic
1/26/2011, 11:59 AM
yep, the great city of okmulgee !!!!!
Okmulgee ? Well now, That splains a lot now don't it ? :D
I like Okmulgee used to be a little diner close to Walmart had a great Chicken fry. HUGE..
TahoeSOONER
1/26/2011, 12:25 PM
Stoops cemented his greatness a long time ago in my mind but I've got a feeling there's more to come.
StoopTroup
1/26/2011, 12:31 PM
I believe you should have just PM'd MI Sooner about this Collier. :D
Seamus
1/26/2011, 01:02 PM
I agree that a tie is not a defeat but that also makes one unbeaten not undefeated.
:rolleyes:
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