Top Coaches All Time without.....

[SteelClip49]

a national title by the Associated Press and United Press are:

FRANK KUSH (Arizona State: 173-57-1)
- 2 undefeated seasons
- 4 Fiesta Bowl wins
- 4 Top Tens (#2 in 1975)
- 7 WAC Titles

FRANK BROYLES (Arkansas: 149-62-6)
- 1 undefeated season
- 2 Cotton Bowl wins, 1 Sugar Bowl win
- 9 Top Tens (#2 in 1964 and 1965)
- 7 SWC Titles

WALLACE BUTTS (Georgia: 140-86-9)
- 1 undefeated season
- 2 Orange Bowl wins, 1 Sugar Bowl win, 1 Rose Bowl win
- 4 Top Tens (#2 in 1942)
- 4 SEC Titles

BOBBY DODD (Georgia Tech: 165-64-8)
- 2 undefeated seasons
- 3 Sugar Bowl wins, 2 Orange Bowl wins, 1 Cotton Bowl win
- 6 Top Tens (#2 in 1952)
- 2 SEC Titles

BO SCHEMBECHLER (Michigan: 194-48-5)
- 1 undefeated season
- 2 Rose Bowl wins, 1 Fiesta Bowl win
- 17 Top Tens (10 straight from 69-78; #2 in 1985)
- 13 Big Ten Titles

JOHN VAUGHT (Ole Miss: 190-61-12)
- 2 undefeated seasons
- 5 Sugar Bowl wins, 1 Cotton Bowl win
- 10 Top Tens (#2 in 1959 and 1960)
- 6 SEC Titles

JOHN COOPER (Ohio State: 111-43-4)
- 3 one-loss seasons
- 1 Rose Bowl win, 1 Sugar Bowl win
- 6 Top Tens (#2 in 1996 and 1998)
- 3 Big Ten Titles




If there is one coach to pick out as the top coach of all time without a national championship, it would have to be SCHEMBECHLER.


Thoughts?

[DarrellZero]

As for Broyles and Schembechler, I don't recall the media ever calling them chokers for not winning the big game, like they're so fond of doing to Bob.

[DrZaius]

great point!

[King Barry's Back]

As for Broyles and Schembechler, I don't recall the media ever calling them chokers for not winning the big game, like they're so fond of doing to Bob.

They coached in a gentler time.

[texaspokieokie]

some polls had AR as #! in 64. if you look @ the results, they probably deserved being #1.

[Mad Dog Madsen]

Mike Gundy??? :rolleyes:

[Widescreen]

They coached in a gentler time.

Yep. ESPN didn't exist when Broyles was coaching and was not close to the monster they are today when Schembechler was at Michigan.

[OUNC06]

John Vaught

[PLaw]

As for Broyles and Schembechler, I don't recall the media ever calling them chokers for not winning the big game, like they're so fond of doing to Bob.

I recall Bo getting a lot of grief come every bowl season - at one point, he had lost 8 straight bowl games.

BOOMER

[Leroy Lizard]

I recall Bo getting a lot of grief come every bowl season - at one point, he had lost 8 straight bowl games.

BOOMER

The advent of the blog has made name-calling through respectable outlets more common. An SI writer back in the day couldn't resort to such juvenile arguments and keep a job very easily.

The mode of thinking is, "If I call Bob an ***-hole, then my article will be linked in about a dozen message boards and I will generate about 300 comments, which I can show my boss as evidence that I generate traffic."

[agoo758]

Bill Snyder is arguably the greatest coach without a National Championship.

[texaspokieokie]

Bill Snyder is arguably the greatest coach without a National Championship.

yes !!
folks have forgotten how pathetic KSU was before he got there.

[agoo758]

yes !!
folks have forgotten how pathetic KSU was before he got there.

Kansas State had the lowest winning percentage of any team in history before he got there, and one bowl appearance.

[Widescreen]

And now they've got one whole conference championship! Amazing!

;)

[prrriiide]

yes !!
folks have forgotten how pathetic KSU was before he got there.

Snyder has 149 wins. That's more than all of the coaches dating back to 1934 COMBINED had.

[MyT Oklahoma]

And now they've got one whole conference championship! Amazing!

;)

Actually Kansas State won a Big 6 Championship way back in the 1930's.

[Leroy Lizard]

Bill Snyder is arguably the greatest coach without a National Championship.

He would get my vote.

[picasso]

My bro in law played for Kush.

[picasso]

yes !!
folks have forgotten how pathetic KSU was before he got there.

He couldn't have done it without scholly limits.

[Widescreen]

Actually Kansas State won a Big 6 Championship way back in the 1930's.

Wow, Snyder is old.

[Collier11]

Snyder is a great coach but lets not forget that he turned that program around by beating patsies...he is nowhere near the greatest coach of all time, or even the top 10 all time...top 20 maybe

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

He couldn't have done it without scholly limits.Scholly limits have changed a LOT about college football.

[Leroy Lizard]

Snyder is a great coach but lets not forget that he turned that program around by beating patsies...

:eek:

Ahem. Nice weather we're having.

[Collier11]

well lets be real about it

[SteelClip49]

SNYDER is nowhere near the list I provided. With the exception of John Cooper, the coaches I listed had undefeated seasons in their resume.

[CORNholio]

Snyder for the win. 10 more continuous years and he wouldn't be on this list because he would have a NC. Now they fell apart once he left and he is too old to resurrect the program. He is KState; the only reason KState is not thought of anymore as Iowa State still is.

[CORNholio]

SNYDER is nowhere near the list I provided. With the exception of John Cooper, the coaches I listed had undefeated seasons in their resume.

Snyder had much, much less to work with than any of those coaches. They have less of a history than even Baylor. Yes. Even Baylor. KSU had nothing and they were located in BFE Kansas. Manhattan is like Guymon, OK. With no tradition, no facilities, no lure to recruits, no high powered alumni, he established a power in college football that fell apart the day he left. That is proof positive of his enormous value as a HC.

[SteelClip49]

Snyder had much, much less to work with than any of those coaches. They have less of a history than even Baylor. Yes. Even Baylor. KSU had nothing and they were located in BFE Kansas. Manhattan is like Guymon, OK. With no tradition, no facilities, no lure to recruits, no high powered alumni, he established a power in college football that fell apart the day he left. That is proof positive of his enormous value as a HC.

Too bad 1998 went down like it did for them. The 2003 Big XII Title helped some I would think but still, the sting of 1998 will never go away.

[Collier11]

Snyder for the win. 10 more continuous years and he wouldn't be on this list because he would have a NC. Now they fell apart once he left and he is too old to resurrect the program. He is KState; the only reason KState is not thought of anymore as Iowa State still is.

they started to fall apart before he left my man

[cleller]

As for Bo-i in 74-75 he was dealing with Les Miles as a player, and from 80-82 Les was on the coaching staff. This could cause any coach nervous instabilities.

[texaspokieokie]

He couldn't have done it without scholly limits.

well, that definitely takes all the luster from his accomplishments !!!!

[OUthunder]

Grandpa Snyder at KSU. What he did with that program was amazing. The year that he had Bishop, and they choked against Texas Aggie, was the best team that they have ever put on a field. They were the best team in the nation that year, but grandpa decided to go conservative in the 4th against A&M, and choke a National Title and Big XII title away.

[MI Sooner]

Where does Pete Carrol rank on this list?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Too bad 1998 went down like it did for them. The 2003 Big XII Title helped some I would think but still, the sting of 1998 will never go away.Almost makes you wanna get teary-eyed for that cursed program.

[MichiganSooner]

As for Broyles and Schembechler, I don't recall the media ever calling them chokers for not winning the big game, like they're so fond of doing to Bob.

You must not have read the Detroit Free Press.

Back then, only the 3 networks were around and ABC did college ball. Not enough air time to come up with slogans like big game Bob or to call a coach a choker.

[agoo758]

Snyder is a great coach but lets not forget that he turned that program around by beating patsies...he is nowhere near the greatest coach of all time, or even the top 10 all time...top 20 maybe

Beating Patsies that used to destroy them, and I am no expert on Kansas State football in the 90's but you don't win 9 to 10 games just about every year without beating SOME good teams. I give him a pass for his losing record to Colorado and Nebraska, and struggling against Oklahoma in the later years, because KSU had no business being even in the top 50 much less the top ten and being a BCS bowl contender if Snyder wasn't there.

Put him in a school with more resources and a better recruiting base, like say Oklahoma, or say USC, and he's got multiple national championships. Bank it.

[agoo758]

they started to fall apart before he left my man

So what? Two bad seasons? This isn't oklahoma where you can have a few missteps and still salvage a winning season, you have to be NEAR PERFECT if not completely perfect to have any success at a school like that, sure he probably made a few mistakes, but I cut him some slack after turning around a team with one bowl appearance in the last 50 or something years into a top ten program.

A lot of people on here who think that Snyder is overrated also seem to kiss the feet of Mangino for going winning 12 or so games in 2007, ignoring the fact that they had one of the weakest schedules in the country.

[jdd12]

Where does Pete Carrol rank on this list?

If you did what I think you did there, I see it. ;)

[agoo758]

You could also add Barry Alvarez to the mix. He was to Wisconsin as Snyder was to K-State to a lesser extent.

[Cornfed]

A weak conference resulted in K state's run, a strong conference and they will be middle of the road at best.

[BigRed47]

Unofficially many gave Arkansas the NC in 1964 as they were the only team to finish the bowl season undefeated. The official champion that year was Alabama. Both Bama and Arkansas finished the regular season 10-0. However #1 Alabama lost to #5 Texas 21-17 in the Orange Bowl while #2 Arkansas defeated #6 Nebraska 10-7 in the Cotton Bowl. However the following season, since many felt Arkansas had been shafted they changed the rules and voted after the bowls for the first time. In 1965 #1 Michigan St., #2 Arkansas and #3 Nebraska all finished 10-0. MSU lost to #5 UCLA 14-12 in the Rose Bowl, Arkansas lost to LSU 14-7 in the Cotton Bowl and Nebraska lost to #4 Alabama 39-28 in the Orange Bowl. So 9-1-1 Alabama won their 2nd NC in a row.

[agoo758]

Unofficially many gave Arkansas the NC in 1964 as they were the only team to finish the bowl season undefeated. The official champion that year was Alabama. Both Bama and Arkansas finished the regular season 10-0. However #1 Alabama lost to #5 Texas 21-17 in the Orange Bowl while #2 Arkansas defeated #6 Nebraska 10-7 in the Cotton Bowl. However the following season, since many felt Arkansas had been shafted they changed the rules and voted after the bowls for the first time. In 1965 #1 Michigan St., #2 Arkansas and #3 Nebraska all finished 10-0. MSU lost to #5 UCLA 14-12 in the Rose Bowl, Arkansas lost to LSU 14-7 in the Cotton Bowl and Nebraska lost to #4 Alabama 39-28 in the Orange Bowl. So 9-1-1 Alabama won their 2nd NC in a row.

Are you sure you arn't talking about 2007?:P

[Football Jim]

"Slash" Callahan was the greatest........jerk.... Oh, best coach that never won a NC, Snyder for sure.
It was harder for KSU to have consecutive winning seasons than it was for any of the power programs to win the national title.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Unofficially many gave Arkansas the NC in 1964 as they were the only team to finish the bowl season undefeated. The official champion that year was Alabama. Both Bama and Arkansas finished the regular season 10-0. However #1 Alabama lost to #5 Texas 21-17 in the Orange Bowl while #2 Arkansas defeated #6 Nebraska 10-7 in the Cotton Bowl. However the following season, since many felt Arkansas had been shafted they changed the rules and voted after the bowls for the first time. In 1965 #1 Michigan St., #2 Arkansas and #3 Nebraska all finished 10-0. MSU lost to #5 UCLA 14-12 in the Rose Bowl, Arkansas lost to LSU 14-7 in the Cotton Bowl and Nebraska lost to #4 Alabama 39-28 in the Orange Bowl. So 9-1-1 Alabama won their 2nd NC in a row.The UCLA upset of Meatchicken State in the Rose Bowl was one of the great upsets of all-time, and one of the greatest games I have ever seen. and, I didn't care who won.

[agoo758]

This is an interesting offseason thread to bump.

[Leroy Lizard]

The UCLA upset of Meatchicken State in the Rose Bowl was one of the great upsets of all-time, and one of the greatest games I have ever seen. and, I didn't care who won.

UCLA finished at #5. That's a monster upset?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

UCLA finished at #5. That's a monster upset?MSU that yr was considered nearly unbeatable, esp by a smaller and fairly lightly regarded UCLA. If you aren't old enough to remember that game, it's too bad for you. The game was THAT fun to watch.

[picasso]

well, that definitely takes all the luster from his accomplishments !!!!

I honestly didn't mean to do that but lets get real here. Boise, KSU, they are still high school teams right now without the limitations.
Snyder did an unbelievable job. No doubt, especially after I saw Manhattan first hand.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Unofficially many gave Arkansas the NC in 1964 as they were the only team to finish the bowl season undefeated. The official champion that year was Alabama. Both Bama and Arkansas finished the regular season 10-0. However #1 Alabama lost to #5 Texas 21-17 in the Orange Bowl while #2 Arkansas defeated #6 Nebraska 10-7 in the Cotton Bowl. However the following season, since many felt Arkansas had been shafted they changed the rules and voted after the bowls for the first time. In 1965 #1 Michigan St., #2 Arkansas and #3 Nebraska all finished 10-0. MSU lost to #5 UCLA 14-12 in the Rose Bowl, Arkansas lost to LSU 14-7 in the Cotton Bowl and Nebraska lost to #4 Alabama 39-28 in the Orange Bowl. So 9-1-1 Alabama won their 2nd NC in a row.Well, AR officially won either the UPI or AP Nat Championship that yr. So, Broyles isn't eligible for the award from the thread.

Gawd, I "disliked" Bear Bryant! Almost as much as the domers.

[StoopTroup]

Mike Gundy??? :rolleyes:

I'd say winning a Conference Championship instead of thinking you won it in a 3 way tie might help him make a better case for being a Top Coach of last week.

[Jacie]

For many years, Joe Paterno was on this list. His resume would have looked similar to these with undefeated seasons (I think he had two before getting his first National Championship) and a high winning percentage (reflecting that he had never had a losing season, something he wouldn't do until his 38th year as a head coach). His teams never got any respect since they were an independent playing mainly East coast teams. He finally did break through in 1982 and again in 1986 (and here he is still coaching!).

Another list that would be interesting would be the coaches who won a national championship but were later fired or at least shown the door and invited to leave first. Among these I can think of three right off, Lloyd Carr, Phil Fulmer and Larry Coker.

[jersey sooner]

Pete Carroll

[StoopTroup]

Pete Carroll

Heh.

[Salt City Sooner]

Well, AR officially won either the UPI or AP Nat Championship that yr. So, Broyles isn't eligible for the award from the thread.

Gawd, I "disliked" Bear Bryant! Almost as much as the domers.
Negative. 'Bama won both major polls in '64:

AP: http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/national_championships/ap_poll.php?year=1960

UPI: http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/national_championships/upi_poll.php?year=1960


The 'hogs did win some minor polls (Sagarin, Billingsley, etc.) that year, but they've never won the AP or Coaches poll.

[MyT Oklahoma]

Another list that would be interesting would be the coaches who won a national championship but were later fired or at least shown the door and invited to leave first. Among these I can think of three right off, Lloyd Carr, Phil Fulmer and Larry Coker.

And the King. :mad:

[Leroy Lizard]

For many years, Joe Paterno was on this list.

Tom Osborn too.

I think Snyder has to get the vote. People forget just how bad KSU was when he took over. Just churning out winning seasons was remarkable enough, but he turned the KSU program into a circled date for this opponents.

[boomermagic]

Beating Patsies that used to destroy them, and I am no expert on Kansas State football in the 90's but you don't win 9 to 10 games just about every year without beating SOME good teams. I give him a pass for his losing record to Colorado and Nebraska, and struggling against Oklahoma in the later years, because KSU had no business being even in the top 50 much less the top ten and being a BCS bowl contender if Snyder wasn't there.

Put him in a school with more resources and a better recruiting base, like say Oklahoma, or say USC, and he's got multiple national championships. Bank it.

I totally agree.. People tend to think the very best coaches alway's coached at the traditional OU Bama etc schools.. Barry Switzer is my favorite but I'd put Snyder up there with Barry, The Bear anyone.. He was THAT GOOD.. To be honest he might have won more NC's than Barry or The Bear had he coached at either school.. Yes, He was THAT GOOD..

[Jacie]

Bill Snyder did something no other head coach has dared try. His first year at KSU, he was determined to turn things around asap. He did this by maximizing the talent on hand, red shirting every player on the squad that had not already done so. The cats only won one game that first year but the turnaround began the next season. Once he established a climate of winning, Snyder was able to get the recruits he needed to sustain it.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Negative. 'Bama won both major polls in '64:

AP: http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/national_championships/ap_poll.php?year=1960

UPI: http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/national_championships/upi_poll.php?year=1960


The 'hogs did win some minor polls (Sagarin, Billingsley, etc.) that year, but they've never won the AP or Coaches poll.from wiki for the hawgs of AR:

Football
Main article: Arkansas Razorbacks football

"The school's college football team is coached by Bobby Petrino, who was introduced as the new coach on December 11, 2007.[1] Petrino follows the ten season tenure of Houston Dale Nutt who resigned November 26 after a year marked by off-the-field turmoil. The team plays its home games either at Donald W. Reynolds Razorback Stadium, located on the University of Arkansas campus, or at War Memorial Stadium, located in Little Rock, Arkansas. In 1964, the Razorbacks were the only team to go through the regular season and a bowl game undefeated, and they were awarded the Football Writers Association of America National Championship. "

I was in college at OU at the time the Hogs won, and remember it well.

[SteelClip49]

Snyder deserves praise for turning around a program but there's a huge difference in doing that and also contending for a national title. He did do many wonders but never contended other than 1998. There are many coaches who are above him.

[Salt City Sooner]

from wiki for the hawgs of AR:

Football
Main article: Arkansas Razorbacks football

"The school's college football team is coached by Bobby Petrino, who was introduced as the new coach on December 11, 2007.[1] Petrino follows the ten season tenure of Houston Dale Nutt who resigned November 26 after a year marked by off-the-field turmoil. The team plays its home games either at Donald W. Reynolds Razorback Stadium, located on the University of Arkansas campus, or at War Memorial Stadium, located in Little Rock, Arkansas. In 1964, the Razorbacks were the only team to go through the regular season and a bowl game undefeated, and they were awarded the Football Writers Association of America National Championship. "

I was in college at OU at the time the Hogs won, and remember it well.
Not sure what your point is. I said they won some lesser polls & the FWAA was certainly among them.

[Leroy Lizard]

Snyder deserves praise for turning around a program but there's a huge difference in doing that and also contending for a national title. He did do many wonders but never contended other than 1998. There are many coaches who are above him.

I think it is far easier to compete for a national title when your school name is not Kansas State.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Not sure what your point is. I said they won some lesser polls & the FWAA was certainly among them.I just know that at the time, it WAS a big deal, and was considered by most(and certainly all hog fans) to be a co-title. Ask the King what he remembers about the 1964 hog season, and I bet he'll say NC, Baby! I think he was on their team at the time.

[sooneron]

In 1964, the Razorbacks were the only team to go through the regular season and a bowl game undefeated, and they were awarded the Football Writers Association of America National Championship. "

I was in college at OU at the time the Hogs won, and remember it well.

Yeah and bama claims about 25 titles that were awarded by Bob's bait and tackle shop, BFD. There were two major polls at the time and the FWAA was NOT one of them. It was AP and UPI.

[Salt City Sooner]

I just know that at the time, it WAS a big deal, and was considered by most(and certainly all hog fans) to be a co-title. Ask the King what he remembers about the 1964 hog season, and I bet he'll say NC, Baby! I think he was on their team at the time.
Oh, I definitely agree that they should've won all the polls, as they had the best season of anybody that year. Just pointing out the fact that they didn't win either one of the biggies, a problem which was totally due to the geniuses who decided to have their final polls before the bowls. Thankfully, that problem was rectified a short time later.

[texaspokieokie]

I just know that at the time, it WAS a big deal, and was considered by most(and certainly all hog fans) to be a co-title. Ask the King what he remembers about the 1964 hog season, and I bet he'll say NC, Baby! I think he was on their team at the time.

assistant coach.
Jimmy & Jerry were players.

ar should've been champs.