Robert E Lee's Birthday

[Spring]

Happy Birthday to the Reluctant Warrior.

A great man and military genius.

[The Profit]

Happy Birthday to the Reluctant Warrior.

A great man and military genius.




A traitor, who rots in hell. He was an extremely poor tactician at Gettysburg. Without the high ground, he should have waited to fight another day instead of sending thousands to their graves.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Talk about opening a can of worms...

Though I remember getting R. E. Lee day off in school in Georgia.

[JohnnyMack]

IB......well......you know who.

[Leroy Lizard]

A traitor, who rots in hell. He was an extremely poor tactician at Gettysburg. Without the high ground, he should have waited to fight another day instead of sending thousands to their graves.

A great general who remained dedicated and loyal to his home state.

[Spring]

A traitor, who rots in hell. He was an extremely poor tactician at Gettysburg. Without the high ground, he should have waited to fight another day instead of sending thousands to their graves.

I didn't realize being loyal to your home state was traitorous.

Keep in mind during that time, people thought of themselves not as a Americans but as Virginians, etc.

[The]

http://i.imgur.com/Fy6rV.gif

[stoopified]

I didn't realize being loyal to your home state was traitorous.

Keep in mind during that time, people thought of themselves not as a Americans but as Virginians, etc. :(

[soonerchk]

Happy Birthday, Cousin Bobby!!!

[Thaumaturge]

Whipping slaves and rubbing brine into their wounds is nothing to be commended for. Surely we can all agree on that much.

[SicEmBaylor]

Robert E. Lee was one of the finest men this country has ever produced. He was a patriot, a brilliant military leader, and a model human being that others should emulate.

God bless him.

[SicEmBaylor]

You're two days early though...Lee was born on the 19th.

[The]

Robert E. Bin Laden, more likely.

Killed more Americans than any other man in history.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/7424/manginoisfat.gif

[The Profit]

I didn't realize being loyal to your home state was traitorous.

Keep in mind during that time, people thought of themselves not as a Americans but as Virginians, etc.




So, are you an Okie before you are an American?

[soonerchk]

So, are you an Okie before you are an American?

Is it still 1860?

[Thaumaturge]

Is it still 1860?

You're right.

They're moral relativists before anything.

[The Profit]

Is it still 1860?




In some ways, it is worst today. The teabagger wackos seem to long for the days that led to the civil war.

Spring could find a better hero. Lee was an egomaniac, who took up arms against his fellow Americans. Prior to the war, he was an unforgiving slave owner, who often tortured his slaves.

[Spring]

So, are you an Okie before you are an American?

Statements like this are heavily biased with a 21st Century view of what it is to be a good American. We have 234 years of history as a nation and a bloody civil war that forged it well in out distant past. We've done battle together against and defeated some evil mother****ers since that civil war not to mention been at the forefront of a whole litany of scientific, technological and economic advances which for now has left us as the world's one acknowledged "superpower"

Contrast that with those here in 1860 2nd or 3rd generation Americans who had a distinctly different view forged by their "American Experience" The nation at that time really hadn't done **** but beat off the English, kick some Indian and Mexican *** and enjoyed some of the benefits of the ongoing Industrial Revolution Back then choosing to be a good "Virginian" at the expense of being a good "American" was not the "laugh it up at Sarah Palin/Glenn Beck" matter it is today.

[SicEmBaylor]

People forget that the United States is a construct of the individual states themselves. The states decided to form a union based purely on their own individual interests and they made the sovereign decision to do so. The interests that were initially served by entering the Union were no longer being served for some states so, just as they freely entered, they tried to freely leave. Ours was a voluntary Union before the war -- after the war it was made clear that it's more akin to the mafia. Once you get in you can't get out and if you try...well they'll put a gun to your head or kill you. 'Merica...what a country!

My loyalty first lies with the people I grew up with, the streets that I played in as a kid, and the town that I called home. I have a lot more loyalty to my state than some dip**** bozos in New York. Community first; state second; the Union third.

[The Profit]

Statements like this are heavily biased with a 21st Century view of what it is to be a good American. We have 234 years of history as a nation and a bloody civil war that forged it well in out distant past. We've done battle together against and defeated some evil mother****ers since that civil war not to mention been at the forefront of a whole litany of scientific, technological and economic advances which for now has left us as the world's one acknowledged "superpower"

Contrast that with those here in 1860 2nd or 3rd generation Americans who had a distinctly different view forged by their "American Experience" The nation at that time really hadn't done **** but beat off the English, kick some Indian and Mexican *** and enjoyed some of the benefits of the ongoing Industrial Revolution Back then choosing to be a good "Virginian" at the expense of being a good "American" was not the "laugh it up at Sarah Palin/Glenn Beck" matter it is today.



You make a good and valid point. Our founding fathers should have settled the issue in 1776, instead of allowing a different generation to deal with it later. The real heroes of our founding fathers like Adams, Jefferson and Franklin wanted to free the slaves with the Declaration, but the southern states wouldn't hear of it. That said, Lee still chose state over country. There were more than 300,000 of his fellow Virginians, who chose to fight for the union.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

A traitor, who rots in hell. He was an extremely poor tactician at Gettysburg. Without the high ground, he should have waited to fight another day instead of sending thousands to their graves.
The war was lost by then anyways. He was tactically brilliant at pretty much every other engagement, and was the best general for what he was given in the war. Not debating that Pickett's charge was a huge mistake, however.



So, are you an Okie before you are an American?

A South Carolinian before an American, yes.

[The Profit]

The war was lost by then anyways. He was tactically brilliant at pretty much every other engagement, and was the best general for what he was given in the war. Not debating that Pickett's charge was a huge mistake, however.


A South Carolinian before an American, yes.




Wow. If you represent the thoughts of other South Carolinians, I guess the absolute butt kicking that your state received from the great and glorious Union was simply not enough.

[SoonerKnight]

People forget that the United States is a construct of the individual states themselves. The states decided to form a union based purely on their own individual interests and they made the sovereign decision to do so. The interests that were initially served by entering the Union were no longer being served for some states so, just as they freely entered, they tried to freely leave. Ours was a voluntary Union before the war -- after the war it was made clear that it's more akin to the mafia. Once you get in you can't get out and if you try...well they'll put a gun to your head or kill you. 'Merica...what a country!

My loyalty first lies with the people I grew up with, the streets that I played in as a kid, and the town that I called home. I have a lot more loyalty to my state than some dip**** bozos in New York. Community first; state second; the Union third.

I disagree Sic'em the states that entered in the union did so because this did not work:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articles_of_Confederation

The Articles of confederation caused too many problems because it simply did not work.

The country became strong when it finally agreed on this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Constitution

This is further evidenced by and I quote:


We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

The funny thing is this took effect in 1789 and they started working on the constitution as early as 1787. Now, 71 years later you're saying or somebody here said that they (back in 1860) thought of themselves as Virginians, New Yorkers....etc first event thought the preamble clearly states:


"We the people of the United States"

No, Lee was not a patriot he was a traitor and Lincoln saved his hide as a matter of fact!!


Here is a timeline for ya

http://www.google.com/search?q=constitution+of+the+united+states&hl=en&prmd=ivnsb&tbs=tl:1&tbo=u&ei=17g0Tda6MM-p8Aak_bCHBg&sa=X&oi=timeline_result&ct=title&resnum=17&ved=0CGoQ5wIwEA

[SicEmBaylor]

I disagree Sic'em the states that entered in the union did so because this did not work:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articles_of_Confederation

The Articles of confederation caused too many problems because it simply did not work.

The country became strong when it finally agreed on this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Constitution

This is further evidenced by and I quote:



The funny thing is this took effect in 1789 and they started working on the constitution as early as 1787. Now, 71 years later you're saying or somebody here said that they (back in 1860) though of themselves as Virginians, New Yorkers....etc first event thought the preamble clearly states:


"We the people of the United States"

No, Lee was not a patriot he was a traitor and Lincoln saved his hide as a matter of fact!!


Here is a timeline for ya

http://www.google.com/search?q=constitution+of+the+united+states&hl=en&prmd=ivnsb&tbs=tl:1&tbo=u&ei=17g0Tda6MM-p8Aak_bCHBg&sa=X&oi=timeline_result&ct=title&resnum=17&ved=0CGoQ5wIwEA

What do the Articles of Confederation have to do with anything? The Southern states did not want to return to the Articles of Confederation...
If you read the Confederate Constitution, it's almost a verbatim re-write of the US Constitution with a couple of very good improvements.

Yes, the deficiencies of the system made it in the interests of the states to ratify the new Constitution.

I'm still not sure what the Articles of Confederation have to do with any of this aside from the fact that they both contain forms of the word "Confederate."

[Leroy Lizard]

There were more than 300,000 of his fellow Virginians, who chose to fight for the union.

Traitorous bastards.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Wow. If you represent the thoughts of other South Carolinians, I guess the absolute butt kicking that your state received from the great and glorious Union was simply not enough.
You're damn ****ing right it wasn't, bring on round 2. The great and glorious Union which then turned from war crimes in the south to genocide in the west.



The country became strong when it finally agreed on this:

No, Lee was not a patriot he was a traitor and Lincoln saved his hide as a matter of fact!!

Who wants a strong country? Strong countries cause problems. Probably the only good thing Lincoln did as well

[okie52]

You make a good and valid point. Our founding fathers should have settled the issue in 1776, instead of allowing a different generation to deal with it later. The real heroes of our founding fathers like Adams, Jefferson and Franklin wanted to free the slaves with the Declaration, but the southern states wouldn't hear of it. That said, Lee still chose state over country. There were more than 300,000 of his fellow Virginians, who chose to fight for the union.

Most of those people would now be called "West Virginians".

[The Profit]

Traitorous bastards.



You definitely have issues. You should not be ignored.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

You definitely have issues. You should not be ignored.
Would you fight along side Californians or Texans to put down an Oklahoman revolt? Do you love America THAT MUCH?

[The Profit]

You're damn ****ing right it wasn't, bring on round 2. The great and glorious Union which then turned from war crimes in the south to genocide in the west.


Who wants a strong country? Strong countries cause problems. Probably the only good thing Lincoln did as well




Yeah right. You and your Carolinian kin can go to your gun shows and load up. Then, like your foolish forefathers, you can attempt to secede from the union. We will see how you do against B-2 Bombers, tanks, etc. I would imagine that we have another fine general like the great and Godly William Tecumseh Sherman, who can once again give you the proper dose of reality.

[The]

http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/thisdayintech/2010/11/gen_sherman_250x.jpg

Knew how to handle traitors and terrorists.

[The Profit]

Would you fight along side Californians or Texans to put down an Oklahoman revolt? Do you love America THAT MUCH?



You damn right I would. I am an American first and an Okie Dokie second.

[The Profit]

http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/thisdayintech/2010/11/gen_sherman_250x.jpg

Knew how to handle traitors and terrorists.




God Bless that dear man. If I had a hat on when I saw his glorious face, I would have removed it out of respect.

[Thaumaturge]

Whipping slaves and rubbing brine into their wounds is nothing to be commended for. Surely we can all agree on that much.

Apparently not. It's pretty sad, actually.

[soonerhubs]

:pop:

[The Profit]

Apparently not. It's pretty sad, actually.



Thaum, there are some on here, who would prefer that we still had slavery.

[The]

Thaum, there are some on here, who would prefer that we still had slavery.

I'd prefer we stick to just Asians this time.

[The Profit]

I'd prefer we stick to just Asians this time.




Actually, I would prefer the Irish.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Yeah right. You and your Carolinian kin can go to your gun shows and load up. Then, like your foolish forefathers, you can attempt to secede from the union. We will see how you do against B-2 Bombers, tanks, etc. I would imagine that we have another fine general like the great and Godly William Tecumseh Sherman, who can once again give you the proper dose of reality.
I'm sure you can find another war criminal just like him too

[The]

Actually, I would prefer the Irish.

http://photos.demandstudios.com/12/130/fotolia_2883263_XS.jpg

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

You damn right I would. I am an American first and an Okie Dokie second.
Then I have nothing to say. Must be an artificial state mentality

[The Profit]

I'm sure you can find another war criminal just like him too




hmmm. I don't remember the great and glorious General William Tecumseh Sherman being brought up on charges after the war. Please show me where that happened.

[The]

Then I have nothing to say. Must be an artificial state mentality

North Carolina is Best Carolina.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/thisdayintech/2010/11/gen_sherman_250x.jpg

Knew how to handle traitors and terrorists.

equals
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/Iwane_Matsui.jpg

[The]

equals
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/Iwane_Matsui.jpg

Sherman wasn't Mexican.

[OutlandTrophy]

Robert E Lee is a loser

[okie52]

You damn right I would. I am an American first and an Okie Dokie second.

No matter what the issue?

[SicEmBaylor]

Robert E Lee is a loser

He's still alive? Praise Jesus!

[SicEmBaylor]

North Carolina is Best Carolina.

Now you're just being snarky. ;)

North Carolina has too many transplants.

[The Profit]

Now you're just being snarky. ;)

North Carolina has too many transplants.




North Carolina definitely has better barbecue sauce. That mustard-based crap in South Carolina is horrible.

[olevetonahill]

:pop:

Agreed any one keepin score?

[SoonerKnight]

What do the Articles of Confederation have to do with anything? The Southern states did not want to return to the Articles of Confederation...
If you read the Confederate Constitution, it's almost a verbatim re-write of the US Constitution with a couple of very good improvements.

Yes, the deficiencies of the system made it in the interests of the states to ratify the new Constitution.

I'm still not sure what the Articles of Confederation have to do with any of this aside from the fact that they both contain forms of the word "Confederate."

Sic'em the Articles of Confederacy has everything to do with this. I call BS on just a few things were revised from the U.S. Constitution for example Confedrate States Constitution preamble:


We, the people of the Confederate States, each State acting in its sovereign and independent character, in order to form a permanent federal government, establish justice, insure domestic tranquillity, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity — invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God — do ordain and establish this Constitution for the Confederate States of America.

Now the Articles of Confederacy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articles_of_Confederation

Some highlights for you:


Establishes the name of the confederation with these words: "The Style of this confederacy shall be "The United States of America."
Asserts the equality of the separate states with the confederation government, i.e. "Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every power, jurisdiction, and right, which is not by this Confederation expressly delegated."
Does not call the United States of America a "nation" or "government," but instead says, "The said States hereby severally enter into a firm league of friendship with each other, for their common defense, the security of their liberties, and their mutual and general welfare, binding themselves to assist each other, against all force offered to, or attacks made upon them, or any of them, on account of religion, sovereignty, trade, or any other pretense whatever."

Establishes freedom of movement – anyone could pass freely between the states, excluding "paupers, vagabonds, and fugitives from justice." All people are entitled to the rights established by the state into which he travels. If a crime is committed in one state and the perpetrator flees to another state, he will be extradited to and tried in the state in which the crime was committed.
Allocates one vote in the Congress of the Confederation (the "United States in Congress Assembled") to each state, which was entitled to a delegation of between two and seven members. Members of Congress were appointed by state legislatures. Also, individuals could not serve more than three out of any six years.
Only the central government was allowed to conduct foreign relations and to declare war. No states could have navies or standing armies, or engage in war, without permission of Congress (although the existence of state militias is encouraged).

Whenever an army is raised for common defense, colonels and military ranks below colonel will be named by the state legislatures.
Expenditures by the United States of America will be paid by funds raised by state legislatures, and apportioned to the states based on the real property values of each.
Defines the powers of the United States of America: to declare war, to set weights and measures (including coins), and for Congress to serve as a final court for disputes between states.

Defines a Committee of the States to be a government when Congress is not in session.
Requires nine states to approve the admission of a new state into the confederacy. It pre-approved eastern Canada, if it had applied for membership.
Reaffirms that the Confederation accepts war debt incurred by Congress before the existence of the Articles.
Declares that the Articles are perpetual, and can only be altered by approval of Congress with ratification by all the state legislatures.

The point of putting the Articles of Confederacy in there is because the CSA took from both documents. They would protect each other but the states could decide whether the laws were worth following. This is evidenced in both documents. Again when the United States was under Article of confederation it left a lot of holes in what can ultimately be done to protect each other. Sure, the CSA tried to make their confederacy stronger but it did not work. Hell there was no federally trained Army, there was always bickering over logistics and what state was going to pay for what. These states wanted to have more control over their territories. This doesn't work so well as evidenced before our constitution was ratified.

So even though they borrowed from the U.S. Constitution ultimately it ended up being more like the Articles of Confederation in how it worked. I guess that's why our constitution is the oldest in the free world.

Oh and they were all traitors and no state has a right to secede from the union. As evidenced in this ruling in 1869:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._White

[The Profit]

North Carolina is Best Carolina.




It is definitely the Carolina with the most teeth.

[C&CDean]

Look at you dildoes arguing about something that happened almost 150 years ago like you have a clue about any of it.

FWIW, I'm with the Okies first, the other flyover states second, and the flamers on the coasts last. And then Texass.

[The Profit]

Look at you dildoes arguing about something that happened almost 150 years ago like you have a clue about any of it.

FWIW, I'm with the Okies first, the other flyover states second, and the flamers on the coasts last. And then Texass.




Well at least you have Texas in the right spot. Tuck Fexas!!!

[olevetonahill]

Look at you dildoes arguing about something that happened almost 150 years ago like you have a clue about any of it.

FWIW, I'm with the Okies first, the other flyover states second, and the flamers on the coasts last. And then Texass.

Werks fer me Bro

[SoonerKnight]

But when we go to arms and fight for our country we fight for all of us! Do we not? I've taken an oath to the constitution several times never heard this part of it:


Look at you dildoes arguing about something that happened almost 150 years ago like you have a clue about any of it.

FWIW, I'm with the Okies first, the other flyover states second, and the flamers on the coasts last. And then Texass.

[royalfan5]

Do you know who did a good job uniting a country? Otto Von Bismarck.

[C&CDean]

No, I'm fighting for the Okies. **** the rest of y'all.

[SoonerKnight]

You damn right I would. I am an American first and an Okie Dokie second.

Exactly!

[homerSimpsonsBrain]

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/30/shipmentofFail.jpg

[SoonerKnight]

No, I'm fighting for the Okies. **** the rest of y'all.

Good thing Oklahoma will never secede. Now, if * seceded from the union they wouldn't even have to pay me to fight them ****ers!

[Leroy Lizard]

Good thing Oklahoma will never secede. Now, if * seceded from the union they wouldn't even have to pay me to fight them ****ers!

If I'm going to dog them, I'm sure as Hell not going to fight to keep them. Let 'em secede.

[A Sooner in Texas]

Trust me, they'd love nothing better in Texas than to secede.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Sherman wasn't Mexican.
Neither was Matsui

North Carolina definitely has better barbecue sauce. That mustard-based crap in South Carolina is horrible.
YOU LIE

Look at you dildoes arguing about something that happened almost 150 years ago like you have a clue about any of it.


Please enlighten us, dear leader

[C&CDean]

I already did, dildo.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

No, I'm fighting for the Okies. **** the rest of y'all.
Does this count as enlightenment?

[TheHumanAlphabet]

http://i.imgur.com/Fy6rV.gif


Hey! I use this thing to keep the sinus infections away...

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Robert E. Bin Laden, more likely.

Killed more Americans than any other man in history.

Some would argue that Sherman did that... Just sayin'

Some very tough decisions and matters of conscious happened at that time. Many people were honorable, some were dishonorable and all lived in times we do not today. I won't judge as I didn't live then and 100+ years one can academize anything.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

A South Carolinian before an American, yes.

An answer I would expect from a son of South Carolina.

For me it is harder, my parents from Wisconsin, though no ties there. I was born in MS and grew up in Arkie and Georgia. I would say I am a Cracker or a Mississippian before anything else. Tho in this day and age, I see myself more as an American than a particular state. Tho I would like to see states take back some of the rights they seemed to have ceded to the Federal gov.

[Okla-homey]

My loyalty first lies with the people I grew up with, the streets that I played in as a kid, and the town that I called home. I have a lot more loyalty to my state than some dip**** bozos in New York. Community first; state second; the Union third.

Which no doubt is why you wasted eight years of your life at Baylor and now live in Mississippi. Oklahoma loves you too buddy.

[JohnnyMack]

North Carolina definitely has better barbecue sauce. That mustard-based crap in South Carolina is horrible.

All of the east coast, mustard based BBQ sauce sucks its own dick.

[soonerhubs]

All of the east coast, mustard based BBQ sauce sucks its own dick.

Now that is a mental picture that takes creativity. :D

[The]

Some would argue that Sherman did that... Just sayin'

Some very tough decisions and matters of conscious happened at that time. Many people were honorable, some were dishonorable and all lived in times we do not today. I won't judge as I didn't live then and 100+ years one can academize anything.

The difference is that Sherman wasn't a treasonous terrorist. He fought for the United States and Jesus, not slave holding jihaddists in league with Satan.

[okie52]

The difference is that Sherman wasn't a treasonous terrorist. He fought for the United States and Jesus, not slave holding jihaddists in league with Satan.

Glory, Glory hallelujah.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Robert E. Lee didn't like boobies.

[texaspokieokie]

Robert E. Lee was a fine gentleman, a great general & a HERO.

[The]

Robert E. Lee was a fine gentleman, a great general & a HERO.

A hero to terrorists and people that burn this:
http://loganswarning.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/US-Flag.jpg

[C&CDean]

Dude, that flag is ripped and should be burned. Guess that makes RELee a hero.

[The]

Dude, that flag is ripped and should be burned. Guess that makes RELee a hero.

It's a post office flag. What do you expect?

[DIB]

Robert E. Lee extended a traitorous war and then managed to be outwitted by the buffoon U. S. Grant. He was not only a traitor and a terrorist, but also an epic failure.

[C&CDean]

It's a post office flag. What do you expect?

No it ain't. It's a used car dealership flag. The one where you wash cars at.

[The]

No it ain't.

That's a double negative.

[C&CDean]

Is not either.

[The]

Is not either.

It's not ether, either.

[MR2-Sooner86]

Robert E. Lee is a hero to some and a traitor to others. It just depends on which side you're on.

Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Ben Franklin, and others are traitors as well. We call them heros. Sure, they won the war but it doesn't change the fact they were under the rule of the English crown and supported rebellion which was treason. Period.

As for what Lee did with his state, it applies today. Don't believe me? Look around at the Tea Party and the political unrest this country has seen the past few years.

Who would many people rather side with, the state they grew up in where all their friends, family, and their way of life is OR... Obama, Pelosi, and Reid or any other of our elected officials? People don't trust their elected officials today just like they didn't back before the Civil War.

As for the South "getting their butt kicked" as many would say, read your history. The South was close to winning many times. All the pieces just fell into place for the North.

[C&CDean]

It's not ether, either.

What****ingever.

[okie52]

Robert E. Lee extended a traitorous war and then managed to be outwitted by the buffoon U. S. Grant. He was not only a traitor and a terrorist, but also an epic failure.

Obviously you are a history buff. How many generals did Lincoln fire because they couldn't beat this traitorous epic failure?

[C&CDean]

Obviously you are a history buff. How many generals did Lincoln fire because they couldn't beat this traitorous epic failure?

oooh oooh axe me. I just went through Ford's Theater yesterday afternoon.

[soonerscuba]

As for what Lee did with his state, it applies today. Don't believe me? Look around at the Tea Party and the political unrest this country has seen the past few years.I don't think that's fair considering Lee was actually in the military and went to college.

;)

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Robert E. Lee extended a traitorous war and then managed to be outwitted by the buffoon U. S. Grant. He was not only a traitor and a terrorist, but also an epic failure.
The Army of the Potomac outnumbered the Army of Northern Virginia throughout the war handily, even as much as 2:1 by the end of the war. Outgunned, not outwitted.

[MR2-Sooner86]

Robert E. Lee extended a traitorous war and then managed to be outwitted by the buffoon U. S. Grant. He was not only a traitor and a terrorist, but also an epic failure.

Need to go re-read history. May I suggest these books? You can find them on Amazon and for a nice price. You just might learn something.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51NLR%2BVhaiL._SL500_AA266_PIkin3,BottomRight,-12,34_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51XM8-YUUQL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

[oudanny]

Interesting discussion for the most part but to apply today's standards to people and events from 150 years ago is a dangerous proposition. Any by the way, his birthday is the 19th.

[XingTheRubicon]

Robert E. Lee had unparalleled respect from every commanding officer on both sides.

This isn't privileged information. Ignorance is bliss, I guess.

[Penguin]

The South lost. Get over it. I'm not even sure why this is being discussed on an Oklahoma board.

[KABOOKIE]

I'm not even sure why this is being discussed on an Oklahoma board.

Because most people like history? It's a lot better than discussing about going to prison or what the bennie boys in thailand will do for $5

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

The South lost. Get over it. I'm not even sure why this is being discussed on an Oklahoma board.
5 major tribes from Indian Territory were aligned with the Confederacy and the last Confederate General to surrender was an Indian in Indian Territory.

[C&CDean]

The South lost. Get over it. I'm not even sure why this is being discussed on an Oklahoma board.

Listen to the non-flying bird acting like he was there or something.

Ignorance is bliss.

[Leroy Lizard]

Robert E. Lee had unparalleled respect from every commanding officer on both sides.

The North would certainly have loved to have him on their side. Hell, any army at that time would have loved to have him. He's in the Top-20 all-time generals.

What a lot of numbskulls don't realize is that when you are at a serious disadvantage, there is no tolerance for error. A buffoon he was clearly not. (And neither was Grant.)

[Leroy Lizard]

Can someone point out to The that many loyal U.S. soldiers have burned our flag, being that it is the only proper way to dispose of a U.S. flag?

[JohnnyMack]

Because most people like history? It's a lot better than discussing about going to prison or what the bennie boys in thailand will do for $5

Nope?

[SoonerBorn68]

Yep.

[hawaii 5-0]

Immediately after the attack on Ft. Sumter R E Lee was offered the command of all the United States (northern) Army.

Due to his love and duty to his state of Virginia (which still hadn't seceeded yet) he turned the offer down.

Of all the battles Lee commanded, very few times was he beaten. Usually he won or Grant broke off the battle and moved his army (Wilderness, Spotsylvania, Cold Harbor). Lee just kept moving to counter Grant's movements eastward.

Yeah, he lost Gettysburg, a biggie. He didn't want to fight there but when the two armies met he was forced to make a go of it.

My opinion..........Had Stonewall Jackson not been killed 2 months earlier at Chancellersville, his Corps would have been the one to make 1st contact with the Federals at Gettysburg. He was much more aggressive than Lee by a long shot and would have not stopped at Culp's Hill on the 1st day. He was superb at seeing an area and taking full advantage of the terrain and would of immediately taken Cemetary Ridge and forced the Federals to try and dislodge him and the rest of Lee's army. The results would have been very, very different. As it was, Ewell and Hill stopped the attack and the Federals took the high ground.


Surely most here know than Gen. George McClellen ran against and almost beat Lincoln in 1864? He ran on a Peace Policy that would have stopped the war with both the North and South going their own ways.


5-0

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Immediately after the attack on Ft. Sumter R E Lee was offered the command of all the United States (northern) Army.

Due to his love and duty to his state of Virginia (which still hadn't seceeded yet) he turned the offer down.

Of all the battles Lee commanded, very few times was he beaten. Usually he won or Grant broke off the battle and moved his army (Wilderness, Spotsylvania, Cold Harbor). Lee just kept moving to counter Grant's movements eastward.

Yeah, he lost Gettysburg, a biggie. He didn't want to fight there but when the two armies met he was forced to make a go of it.

My opinion..........Had Stonewall Jackson not been killed 2 months earlier at Chancellersville, his Corps would have been the one to make 1st contact with the Federals at Gettysburg. He was much more aggressive than Lee by a long shot and would have not stopped at Culp's Hill on the 1st day. He was superb at seeing an area and taking full advantage of the terrain and would of immediately taken Cemetary Ridge and forced the Federals to try and dislodge him and the rest of Lee's army. The results would have been very, very different. As it was, Ewell and Hill stopped the attack and the Federals took the high ground.


Surely most here know than Gen. George McClellen ran against and almost beat Lincoln in 1864? He ran on a Peace Policy that would have stopped the war with both the North and South going their own ways.


5-0
Unfortunately the war was already lost even if Lee could win at Gettysburg because the Confederacy had just been split into and the Emancipation Proclamation was keeping all European powers away. A victory at Antietam was the south's only hope

[Okla-homey]

Robert E. Lee had unparalleled respect from every commanding officer on both sides.

This isn't privileged information. Ignorance is bliss, I guess.

Not exactly. In fact, there were even quite a few folks, both in and out of uniform on the Confederate side who were not Lee fans. That's also why he was not given a significant command in the field until he became the general of last resort following Joe Johnston's wounding in late June 1862 during the Seven Days battles on the Peninsula.

This Lee as some kind of Marble Man myth was a post-war development.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a Lee fan, and he was a superb combat general, but Sam Grant proved to be at least his equal by mid-1864.

[TUSooner]

Robert E. Lee was one of the finest men this country has ever produced. He was a patriot, a brilliant military leader, and a model human being that others should emulate.

God bless him.

Joshua Chamberlain >>>> R.E. Lee

SicEm = pathetically deluded about almost everything

Seriously -- and reading history forward rather than with hind-sight from the vantage point of an ivory tower -- Lee was one of the great men of his day. Imperfect and on the wrong side of history, for sure, but always seeking to do the honorable thing and often succeeding. But not the demigod of SicEm's deluded, Confederate fantasy

[olevetonahill]

Dayum Yankees

[Half a Hundred]

Not exactly. In fact, there were even quite a few folks, both in and out of uniform on the Confederate side who were not Lee fans. That's also why he was not given a significant command in the field until he became the general of last resort following Joe Johnston's wounding in late June 1862 during the Seven Days battles on the Peninsula.

This Lee as some kind of Marble Man myth was a post-war development.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a Lee fan, and he was a superb combat general, but Sam Grant proved to be at least his equal by mid-1864.

Yup. Lee became a symbol of the pastoral, lost gentleman of the pre-industrial era, the "Old South" that never really existed. Sherman, on the other hand, was the symbol of chaotic, mechanized force that industrialization imposed on the agrarian societies of the world. Finally, Grant represented the decadent, inhumane North that only won through brute force. These legends are far more important in our characterization of the men than who they actually were as people.

Lee was a superb tactician with almost no ability to see the big picture, and was strategically lost after Jackson was killed. Sherman was a reluctant soldier who dedicated his armies to total destruction, as he thought it was the only way to knock some sense into the enemy, and end the war as soon as possible. Grant understood the tactics of the industrial era more quickly than his contemporaries, and given Sherman's strategic vision, made it cohere into a decisive victory.

[Leroy Lizard]

I guess homers aren't restricted to football. :D

[Sooner_Bob]

Dayum Yankees

l_uh8XjgLTE&ob=av2nl

[prrriiide]

A traitor, who rots in hell. He was an extremely poor tactician at Gettysburg. Without the high ground, he should have waited to fight another day instead of sending thousands to their graves.

Tell ya what. You go raise your sword against your brothers, uncles, cousins, their families, your wife's family, your neighbors, all of whom helped you build your life as you know it. You go pillage their farms, burn their houses, kill thier livestock, raze their cities, and destroy their ways of life. You do that to the people closest to you. THEN come back and call R. E. Lee a traitor.

[SicEmBaylor]

So, I'm pretty excited. Next Friday the Mississippi UDC is hosting a "Secession Reception" honoring the 150th anniversary of Mississippi's withdraw from the Union. All current/former members of the UDC, SCV, CofC, and MOSB are invited. I found out about it tonight when I got a call from one of the UDC MS Division officers. I was a national officer and Division President in the CofC, so I'm being put into the program as a "Special Guest" to be "recognized." Recognition always excites me. :D

And then on Saturday they want me to help chaperone a MS Division CofC field trip to Vicksburg. I haven't been involved with the CofC since I aged out, so I'm kind of excited about that as well.

Good times...good times.

[Leroy Lizard]

So, I'm pretty excited. Next Friday the Mississippi UDC is hosting a "Secession Reception" honoring the 150th anniversary of Mississippi's withdraw from the Union. All current/former members of the UDC, SCV, CofC, and MOSB are invited. I found out about it tonight when I got a call from one of the UDC MS Division officers. I was a national officer and Division President in the CofC, so I'm being put into the program as a "Special Guest" to be "recognized." Recognition always excites me. :D

And then on Saturday they want me to help chaperone a MS Division CofC field trip to Vicksburg. I haven't been involved with the CofC since I aged out, so I'm kind of excited about that as well.

Good times...good times.


http://www.myfishgear.com/files/2018671/uploaded/fishing%20reels%20pic%20xs.jpg

[SicEmBaylor]

http://www.phuckpolitics.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/Pot_Meet_Kettle.jpg

[Leroy Lizard]

Who me?!?!?
http://www.barrylou.com/art/whoMe.jpg

[XingTheRubicon]

Not exactly. In fact, there were even quite a few folks, both in and out of uniform on the Confederate side who were not Lee fans. That's also why he was not given a significant command in the field until he became the general of last resort following Joe Johnston's wounding in late June 1862 during the Seven Days battles on the Peninsula.

This Lee as some kind of Marble Man myth was a post-war development.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a Lee fan, and he was a superb combat general, but Sam Grant proved to be at least his equal by mid-1864.

That must be why he was offered supreme command of both sides. Maybe not every single man from both sides favored him, but he was the most respected officer of either side.

[Leroy Lizard]

The dude was the archetypal gentleman. His tenure as university president was also successful. Sharp guy.

[The]

The dude was the archetypal gentleman. His tenure as university president was also successful. Sharp guy.

I assume you like Rommel as well?

[Leroy Lizard]

I assume you like Rommel as well?

Rommel was a class act. Few would disagree with that notion. Even the British who fought him in Africa had the deepest respect for him.

To be honest, I don't LIKE Rommel. I never met him.

May have been the greatest general ever.

[The]

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20071205045443/uncyclopedia/images/7/76/RommelMcDonald.jpg

[Leroy Lizard]

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20071205045443/uncyclopedia/images/7/76/RommelMcDonald.jpg

:confused:

If you're calling Rommel a clown, then you have no clue as to what you're talking about. The Brits certainly didn't consider him a clown.

[The]

:confused:

If you're calling Rommel a clown, then you have no clue as to what you're talking about. The Brits certainly didn't consider him a clown.

It's Rommel McDonald, you dolt.

[Leroy Lizard]

It's Rommel McDonald, you dolt.

That's a horrible play on words. What next? Rommel Reagan? :rolleyes:

[The]

That's a horrible play on words. What next? Rommel Reagan? :rolleyes:

Now that's just stupid.

[Okla-homey]

Tell ya what. You go raise your sword against your brothers, uncles, cousins, their families, your wife's family, your neighbors, all of whom helped you build your life as you know it. You go pillage their farms, burn their houses, kill thier livestock, raze their cities, and destroy their ways of life. You do that to the people closest to you. THEN come back and call R. E. Lee a traitor.

Dear Prrriiide. Meet George H. Thomas.

http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab7/Okla-homey/Thomas200px-George_Henry_Thomas_-_Brady-Handy.jpg

A Native Virginian and US Army officer who did not violate his sacred oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States. Thomas killed reb traitors by the bushel and saved the Army of the Cumberland after the collapse of the Federal line at Chickamauga in September 1863. Later, he commanded the principal Federal force in the western theater that utterly annihilated what was left of the Reb army that foolishly assaulted Nashville in the Winter of 1864. After that, they called him the "Sledge of Nashville."

After the war, he stayed in the Army and commanded the Department of the Cumberland in Kentucky and Tennessee, and at times also West Virginia and parts of Georgia, Mississippi and Alabama, through 1869.

During the Reconstruction period, Thomas acted to protect freedmen from white abuses. He set up military commissions to enforce labor contracts since the local courts had either ceased to operate or were biased against blacks. Thomas also used troops to protect places threatened by violence from the Ku Klux Klan.

[Leroy Lizard]

Dear Prrriiide. Meet George H. Thomas.

http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab7/Okla-homey/Thomas200px-George_Henry_Thomas_-_Brady-Handy.jpg

A Native Virginian and US Army officer who did not violate his sacred oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States.

He shot up his own fellow Virginians? Sounds like a traitor.

[yankee]

North > South

Suck it, you bunch of wanna be rebs.










Boom. Roasted.

[Leroy Lizard]

North > South

Suck it, you bunch of wanna be rebs.

"Waaah, they're flying the Confederate flag! Waaaah, they're praising Robert E. Lee!"

Quit yer sniveling about the Confederacy.

[Okla-homey]

He shot up his own fellow Virginians? Sounds like a traitor.

He shot his fellow Virginians like there was a bounty on them. A fine officer who did his duty.

[olevetonahill]

Dayum Yankees

[TheHumanAlphabet]

There is a reason why the yankees are so hated in the South...

If there had been a MacArthur type leader for the occupation of the South, I would bet there would be less animosity.

Granted to the victors, the spoils, but what some of the yankees did to the South was uncalled for. Carpet baggers the worst.

[Leroy Lizard]

There is a reason why the yankees are so hated in the South...

If there had been a MacArthur type leader for the occupation of the South, I would bet there would be less animosity.

Granted to the victors, the spoils, but what some of the yankees did to the South was uncalled for. Carpet baggers the worst.

The North pretty much illustrated why the South tried to secede in the first place.

[Leroy Lizard]

He shot his fellow Virginians like there was a bounty on them. A fine officer who did his duty.

Sounds more like a hit man.