"Mother" and "Father" are insensitive and prejudicial terms...

[Okla-homey]

who knew? And does this mean Mothers Day and Fathers Day must be stricken from the calendar?


'Mother,' 'Father' Changing to 'Parent One,' 'Parent Two' on Passport Applications
By Todd Starnes
Published January 07, 2011
FoxNews.com

The words “mother” and “father” will be removed from U.S. passport applications and replaced with gender neutral terminology, the State Department says.

“The words in the old form were ‘mother’ and ‘father,’” said Brenda Sprague, deputy assistant Secretary of State for Passport Services. "They are now ‘parent one’ and ‘parent two.’"

A statement on the State Department website noted: “These improvements are being made to provide a gender neutral description of a child’s parents and in recognition of different types of families.” The statement didn't note if it was for child applications only.

The State Department said the new passport applications, not yet available to the public, will be available online soon.

Sprague said the decision to remove the traditional parenting names was not an act of political correctness.

Gay rights groups are applauding the decision.

“Changing the term mother and father to the more global term of parent allows many different types of families to be able to go and apply for a passport for their child without feeling like the government doesn’t recognize their family,” said Jennifer Chrisler, executive director of Family Equality Council.

Her organization lobbied the government for several years to remove the words from passport applications.

“Our government needs to recognize that the family structure is changing,” Chrisler said. “The best thing that we can do is support people who are raising kids in loving, stable families.”

But some conservative Christians are outraged over the decision.

“Only in the topsy-turvy world of left-wing political correctness could it be considered an ‘improvement’ for a birth-related document to provide less information about the circumstances of that birth,” Family Research Council president Tony Perkins wrote in a statement to Fox News Radio. “This is clearly designed to advance the causes of same-sex ‘marriage’ and homosexual parenting without statutory authority, and violates the spirit if not the letter of the Defense of Marriage Act.”

Robert Jeffress, pastor of the First Baptist Church in Dallas, agreed. “It’s part of an overall attempt at political correctness to diminish the distinction between men and women and to somehow suggest you don’t need both a father and a mother to raise a child successfully,” said Jeffress. “(This decision) was made to make homosexual couples feel more comfortable in rearing children.”

Chrisler recounted the day she and her female partner tried to get her twin sons passports.

“Even though my partner was their legal mother, had adopted them after I gave birth to them, she still had to put her name in the father field, and that is both discriminatory and makes us feel like second-class citizens,” she said.

Sprague said she would not use the word discriminatory to describe the old passport form.

“I would prefer to use the word imprecise,” she said. “It just didn’t capture the reality of their situation. Clearly, we want to be sensitive to the feelings of other people, but we are also very conscious of our need to introduce the greatest degree of precision to the process.”

Perkins, meanwhile, accused the State Department of disrespecting the law and called on Congress to “take their oversight rule very seriously and intervene in both these circumstances.”

The new gender-neutral passport application will be rolled out in February.

[oudivesherpa]

who knew? And does this mean Mothers Day and Fathers Day must be stricken from the calendar?

NO. It just means we will have parent 1 and parent 2 days.:D

[olevetonahill]

Well **** me runnin.
1st Huck Finn, now this ****. What in hell is this country coming to?:eek:

[olevetonahill]

NO. It just means we will have parent 1 and parent 2 days.:D

Lets see here
Parent #1 has to be the Mom, cause we all know #1 is pissy
Parent #2 has to be the Dad, Cause wimmens think all us men are ****ty characters.

[sappstuf]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_kyYaMHB4tGw/SsU7zi4aRYI/AAAAAAAADkM/uA_F-p2YZFg/s400/thing1+%26thing2.jpg

[olevetonahill]

Whoa 3G, Its a Joke. :rolleyes:
Are ya a little Pissy today ?:D

[3rdgensooner]

So red spek = pissy? I guess there's a lot of "pissy" going around. :D





I don't get the publicizing of spek around here. I'll just publicly express in the future.

[olevetonahill]

Whoa 3G, Its a Joke. :rolleyes:
Are ya a little Pissy today ?:D


So red spek = pissy? I guess there's a lot of "pissy" going around. :D





I don't get the publicizing of spek around here. I'll just publicly express in the future.

Where I say anything about "Spek" I dint I were makin another Joke :P

[3rdgensooner]

Where I say anything about "Spek" I dint I were makin another Joke :PWell I hadn't commented in the thread. So I don't know why else you would have addressed me. Wait! You can read my thoughts? :eek:

[olevetonahill]

Well I hadn't commented in the thread. So I don't know why else you would have addressed me. Wait! You can read my thoughts? :eek:

Sheat, Yer a wimmens, No One can READ yer thots ;)

[salth2o]

Parent 1 F***er just does not have the same ring to it.

[MR2-Sooner86]

Our country is so ****ed.

[Leroy Lizard]

Parent 1's, Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to Be Cowboys


"Parent 1!
Tell your children not to walk my way
Tell your children not to hear my words
What they mean
What they say
Parent 1!

[yermom]

How much time would you rather have fed employees waste explaining to mom #2 that she should fill out the "father" line? Or convincing her to?

Does this line also apply to adoptive step parents?

Seems there are bigger problems to worry about than some form that has little to no relevance to your daily life.

[thecynic]

this is effing ridiculous

[VeeJay]

Since I'm no longer a "Daddy" but just a "parent" then surely this must strike down all those ancient notions about the ahem..."male" parent being the breadwinner amongst most core families.

Therefore, I am well within my rights to sue my ex for all the child support payments I made. And if she can't pay up, then I sue the county, the state and the federal government...in that order. Until my wrong has been satisfied.

[sooner59]

PARENT 1...OF CHILDREN!!!

http://a.espncdn.com/media/motion/2007/0924/hu_070924ncf_gundy_osu.jpg

[XingTheRubicon]

our parent 1 who art in heaven

[Veritas]

This country needs an enema.

[DIB]

I wonder what our ForeParent2s would think about this.

[3rdgensooner]

Our country is so ****ed.


This country needs an enema.

I think we'll be okay.

[Pricetag]

How much time would you rather have fed employees waste explaining to mom #2 that she should fill out the "father" line? Or convincing her to?

Does this line also apply to adoptive step parents?

Seems there are bigger problems to worry about than some form that has little to no relevance to your daily life.
Since at least half the people in this country are dip****s, it also eliminates the possibility of putting the wrong information on the wrong side, as well.

[Midtowner]

Much ado about nothing, really.

Consider how bright TSA and ICE folks are when dealing with what should be painfully obvious. They might blow a gasket over a man who is listed as the mother on a passport.

[Turd_Ferguson]

How much time would you rather have fed employees waste explaining to mom #2 that she should fill out the "father" line? Or convincing her to?

Does this line also apply to adoptive step parents?

Seems there are bigger problems to worry about than some form that has little to no relevance to your daily life.Keep it up young hippy...

[Turd_Ferguson]

I wonder what our ForeParent2s would think about this.I hate you, but I'm gonna spek ya for that...:D

[AlbqSooner]

How much time would you rather have fed employees waste explaining to mom #2 that she should fill out the "father" line? Or convincing her to?

Just tell both of them that it is up to them to decide and declare which one is the dyke in the relationship. Then have them list the dyke as the father. Not that damn difficult.

[Turd_Ferguson]

Just tell both of them that it is up to them to decide and declare which one is the dyke in the relationship. Then have them list the dyke as the father. Not that damn difficult.What are you thinking Alb??? That's to insensitive...

[cccasooner2]

our parent 1 who art in heaven

"Reserve" that. :D

[AlbqSooner]

What are you thinking Alb??? That's to insensitive...

Ima thinking Honesty in Gubmint.:D

[MR2-Sooner86]

I think we'll be okay.

I really don't think so.
Kids can't play tag because somebody could get hurt.
Dodge ball promotes exclusing and bullying.
Kids can't hug each other because it might be taken too far sexually.
A white woman gets fired from her job on Halloween for dressing up as Aunt Jemima and offends some black people.
People can't wear the American flag because it might offend somebody from another culture.
Everybody gets ribbon because there are no losers.
Now this.

Seriously, this country is ****ed. We let slobbery wet vaginas scare us into this PC bull****.

[FirstandGoal]

our parent 1 who art in heaven

Its parent2!!!

Pay 'tention


;)

[badger]

Is the change really because "mother" and "father" are offensive, or because not everyone has a mother and father per se?

Sperm donors or deadbeats who abandon their families probably are not considered mom or dad by their kids, especially if they've never been in their lives.

[proud gonzo]

yeah, I don't think this is an issue of political correctness run rampant. I think this is a rare instance of someone trying to make government forms more accurate and applicable for more people. Families aren't as straightforward as they used to be, and this cuts out the hassle of listing them inaccurately on passports.

[ouwasp]

buncha crap... not surprised what the pc retards come up with anymore though...

oops..."retard" isn't nice is it? oh well...

[goingoneight]

P1ILF.

[Leroy Lizard]

Is the change really because "mother" and "father" are offensive, or because not everyone has a mother and father per se?

Sperm donors or deadbeats who abandon their families probably are not considered mom or dad by their kids, especially if they've never been in their lives.

The form didn't say "Mom" or "Dad" but "Mother" and "Father." If I had a deadbeat dad, I would still consider him a father. I would certainly think "Father" is more accurate than "Parent."

And if the term "Dad" is so wrong, why do we call them "Deadbeat Dads"?

What's next? Parent 3______ Parent 4_______ List Additional Parents________

[yermom]

Just tell both of them that it is up to them to decide and declare which one is the dyke in the relationship. Then have them list the dyke as the father. Not that damn difficult.

do you really want to wait in line behind that?

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

end of the world oh nooooooooooooooooooooooo

[Aldebaran]

You gotta fight... for the right... to be bigoted.

[Sooner_Bob]

Families aren't as straightforward as they used to be . . .

And that's the root of the problem IMO.

[Pricetag]

Because traditional moms and dads have never ****ed up their kids, right?

[Sooner_Bob]

Because traditional moms and dads have never ****ed up their kids, right?


Yep. That's exactly what I said.

[jkjsooner]

I really don't think so.
Kids can't play tag because somebody could get hurt.
Dodge ball promotes exclusing and bullying.
Kids can't hug each other because it might be taken too far sexually.
A white woman gets fired from her job on Halloween for dressing up as Aunt Jemima and offends some black people.
People can't wear the American flag because it might offend somebody from another culture.
Everybody gets ribbon because there are no losers.
Now this.

Seriously, this country is ****ed. We let slobbery wet vaginas scare us into this PC bull****.

I don't think this has anything in common with any of those you listed. The fact is that some children now have parents of the same sex so they changed the form to reflect that. It's just common sense.

Now, if you disagree with same sex unions and/or those couples being parents then that's another issue altogether but as long as we have them it makes sense to make the forms fit the current situation. The passport form shouldn't be used as some sort of statement on morality. There are plenty of other avenues for that.

[Pricetag]

Yep. That's exactly what I said.

Well, you did describe it as the "root of the problem," no? What problem?

[Pricetag]

I don't think this has anything in common with any of those you listed. The fact is that some children now have parents of the same sex so they changed the form to reflect that. It's just common sense.
It doesn't even have to be about that. What sense does it make for one set of information to be bound to one column and one to another on a government form?

[Ike]

meh. It's one goldam form in a government full of millions of forms. Not really worth wasting energy caring about it.

[SpankyNek]

I really don't think so.
Kids can't play tag because somebody could get hurt.

What world do you live in where tag is not allowed?

Dodge ball promotes exclusing and bullying.

Dodge Ball is a tough one...it is normally only played when a school facilitates it...how many "pick-up" dodgeball games have you participated in? We used to play"Bloody Knuckles" to prove something too, but I can't imagine devoting a week of PE to its mastery.

Kids can't hug each other because it might be taken too far sexually.

Again, I haven't ever heard that this was an issue....but after those kids got Meningitis in Oolagah, I have discouraged my daughter from as much physical contact with non-family members as possible

A white woman gets fired from her job on Halloween for dressing up as Aunt Jemima and offends some black people.

She should have known better, as I am sure I have heard you talk on the point of the powers of the employer in situations limiting speech.

People can't wear the American flag because it might offend somebody from another culture.

The fact that people wear the flag as clothing is far more of an indication of our societies lack of respect.

Everybody gets ribbon because there are no losers.

This is nothing new...they've been handing out 6th place trophies since the 70's...Pretty sure that they were received with the same fervor then as they are now...very little

Now this.

Seriously, this country is ****ed. We let slobbery wet vaginas scare us into this PC bull****.
My responses in Bold

In the late 60s, the straight laced establishment used to tell the "Pinko Hippies" things like "This is America...Love it or leave it"....time to take some of their own medicine....I hear the Ivory Coast is nice.

[Aldebaran]

I love it when rants about what is wrong with America include reference to bloody knuckles and White women getting fired for dressing up as Aunt ****ing Jemima.

Brilliant. You can't make this **** up.

[DIB]

What if a kid is being raised by his aunt and uncle? Grandparents? His older sister and her husband? Non-traditional families don't have to indicate a breakdown in society. Sometimes, parents die and the rest of the family is left to pick up the pieces. This form, now, reflects all situations.

[C&CDean]

OK, so has anybody decided for sure who Parent 1/2 are? **** confuses the hell outta me.

[Sooner_Bob]

Well, you did describe it as the "root of the problem," no? What problem?

The failure of the traditional family (mother and father) has lead to those involved thinking they need to find the "perfect family" in other places and with other non-traditional people. This turmoil has lead to many kids growing up without both parents (mom and dad) or to many kids not having a healthy male and/or female role-model. Some turn out just fine and others don't.

It's the whole idea of "officially" implying that the traditional family isn't the preferred environment for kids to grow up. I'm not Parent 1 or 2, I'm dad. And anytime I see this crap on a form I'm crossing it out and replacing it with who I am.

I never said kids who grow up in a traditional family don't have problems.

[Sooner_Bob]

What if a kid is being raised by his aunt and uncle? Grandparents? His older sister and her husband? Non-traditional families don't have to indicate a breakdown in society. Sometimes, parents die and the rest of the family is left to pick up the pieces. This form, now, reflects all situations.

I thought the whole Parent/Guardian thing covered those situations.

[Sooner_Bob]

What if a kid is being raised by his aunt and uncle? Grandparents? His older sister and her husband? Non-traditional families don't have to indicate a breakdown in society. Sometimes, parents die and the rest of the family is left to pick up the pieces. This form, now, reflects all situations.

I thought the whole Parent/Guardian thing covered those situations.

[Pricetag]

It's the whole idea of "officially" implying that the traditional family isn't the preferred environment for kids to grow up. I'm not Parent 1 or 2, I'm dad. And anytime I see this crap on a form I'm crossing it out and replacing it with who I am.
Had you never read this story, had you never heard the commentary about it, do you think you would have had a problem with a form such as the one mentioned here?

I think that people not looking to get pissed off would fill out this form without giving it a thought.

[C&CDean]

Who the **** gets to be parent 1 dammit?

[Sooner_Bob]

Had you never read this story, had you never heard the commentary about it, do you think you would have had a problem with a form such as the one mentioned here?

I think that people not looking to get pissed off would fill out this form without giving it a thought.

Little things like this add to the illusion that the traditional family is valued less and less. Over time they add up.

I'll admit some hack me off more than others and that in the grand scheme of things this by itself may not be a huge issue, but together with other implications I think it's a bad idea.

[Sooner_Bob]

Who the **** gets to be parent 1 dammit?

You're Parent 1 and JohnnyMack is Parent 2.

Happy now?

:D

[DIB]

Can I be parent 3 on that choo-choo train of love?

[texaspokieokie]

i think this sucks & is just more bull**** PC.

[olevetonahill]

Lets see here
Parent #1 has to be the Mom, cause we all know #1 is pissy
Parent #2 has to be the Dad, Cause wimmens think all us men are ****ty characters.


OK, so has anybody decided for sure who Parent 1/2 are? **** confuses the hell outta me.

You dint Pay tention , now did you?:P

[Thaumaturge]

It's a outrage.

[DIB]

It's a outrage.

So, is your face

[3rdgensooner]

I love it when rants about what is wrong with America include reference to bloody knuckles and White women getting fired for dressing up as Aunt ****ing Jemima.
America! **** Yeah!

[Thaumaturge]

The liberals are out of control, and if you don't fall in line, they'll smack you down.

[Midtowner]

As a potential father, I find the term "Parent 2" to be offensive. It's patently unfair for the woman to be termed "Parent 1" simply because she gave birth to the child. I would much prefer the terms "Green Parent" and "Blue Parent," as I'm fairly certain that neither one of those colors are racially or culturally offensive.

[olevetonahill]

Yall are Dumasses
Every one has a Mother and a Father
If yer filling out a form and ya dont know just put UNKNOWN and move on

[sappstuf]

As a potential father, I find the term "Parent 2" to be offensive. It's patently unfair for the woman to be termed "Parent 1" simply because she gave birth to the child. I would much prefer the terms "Green Parent" and "Blue Parent," as I'm fairly certain that neither one of those colors are racially or culturally offensive.

http://www.citytourcard.com/cms/upload/partner/berlin/BlueManGroup.jpg

[Aldebaran]

Every one has a Mother and a Father


You would think so... But realistically, we're only a year or two away from being able to make lesbian sperm and ridding the world of men once and for all.

[Veritas]

I think we'll be okay.
So do I. But I'm pretty sure our definitions of "okay" are quite different.

[Pricetag]

So do I. But I'm pretty sure our definitions of "okay" are quite different.
So? If you both get to be okay, even if her definition is different, are you okay with that?

People are so damn ready to be "outraged" (this word should be stricken from the dictionary for misuse, IMO) that I think many aren't willing to be okay.

[texas bandman]

I always call my parents "Old Man" and "Old Lady". Does that mean I have to call them "Old Parent 1" and "Old Parent 2"? This clealy doesn't display the love and respect that I want to convey when I address my parental units. ;) :D

[Dio]

Heather Has Two Parent 1's

[Pricetag]

One column should be "Legend" and the other should be "Leader."

[LePetomaine]

meh. It's one goldam form in a government full of millions of forms. Not really worth wasting energy caring about it.

Have to agree with this one -- this issue is a giant snore.

As for who gets to be parent no. 1? rock, paper, scissors takes care of that.

[okie52]

I just don't think mother F****r is going to be the same.

[3rdgensooner]

So do I. But I'm pretty sure our definitions of "okay" are quite different.
Okay?

[MR2-Sooner86]

I don't think this has anything in common with any of those you listed. The fact is that some children now have parents of the same sex so they changed the form to reflect that. It's just common sense.

Now, if you disagree with same sex unions and/or those couples being parents then that's another issue altogether but as long as we have them it makes sense to make the forms fit the current situation. The passport form shouldn't be used as some sort of statement on morality. There are plenty of other avenues for that.

I don't disagree with same sex parents. If they want to, fine. However, changing papers for them just so they aren't offended is stupid. How many people on this board have a mom and dad? How many people had two moms or two dads? Exactly. If you do something special for a small group, pretty soon the others will be screaming that they get their way.

"But more kids are being raised by gay parents!"

Again, how many compared to the population? I'd say 9/10 kids have a mother and father and not two of either or. Jumping through all of these hoops to not offend that one set of parents over the other nine is a waste of time.


What world do you live in where tag is not allowed?

Some traditional childhood games are disappearing from school playgrounds because educators say they're dangerous.
Elementary schools in Cheyenne, Wyo., and Spokane, Wash., banned tag at recess this year. Others, including a suburban Charleston, S.C., school, dumped contact sports such as soccer and touch football. (http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2006-06-26-recess-bans_x.htm)


Again, I haven't ever heard that this was an issue....but after those kids got Meningitis in Oolagah, I have discouraged my daughter from as much physical contact with non-family members as possible

West Sylvan Middle School Principal Allison Couch said. "I was observing students hugging other students and the other students didn't feel comfortable."
And then there were the girls who would run the length of the hallway to hug each other between classes, squealing the entire way.
"We're just trying to quell the huge amount of distractions," she said. "With the girls they would hug five or six or seven times between classes." (http://abcnews.go.com/Health/oregon-school-hugging-ban-west-sylvan-middle-school/story?id=10150794)


She should have known better, as I am sure I have heard you talk on the point of the powers of the employer in situations limiting speech.

It wasn't her employer but the employees who went to the employer and complained so much she got fired.



In the late 60s, the straight laced establishment used to tell the "Pinko Hippies" things like "This is America...Love it or leave it"....time to take some of their own medicine....I hear the Ivory Coast is nice.

I love it when rants about what is wrong with America include reference to bloody knuckles and White women getting fired for dressing up as Aunt ****ing Jemima.

Brilliant. You can't make this **** up.

I'll leave the rest to the master... NSFW

h6wOt2iXdc4

[Aldebaran]

I don't disagree with same sex parents. If they want to, fine. However, changing papers for them just so they aren't offended is stupid. How many people on this board have a mom and dad? How many people had two moms or two dads? Exactly. If you do something special for a small group, pretty soon the others will be screaming that they get their way.

"But more kids are being raised by gay parents!"

Again, how many compared to the population? I'd say 9/10 kids have a mother and father and not two of either or. Jumping through all of these hoops to not offend that one set of parents over the other nine is a waste of time.

Typical tyranny of the majority speech.

[3rdgensooner]

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/6/25/68bdad2b-2363-453a-9001-0fe4b5d2a75f.jpg

[MR2-Sooner86]

Typical tyranny of the majority speech.

http://citizented.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/cry_baby.jpg

[Aldebaran]

http://citizented.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/cry_baby.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

[crawfish]

As parent #3 I am offended.

[MR2-Sooner86]

Damn you sure showed me. Trying to turn it on me even though you're the one who's wrong. I don't know if I can handle this. I mean it's obvious I'm dealing with an intellectual superhero here.

I don't know if I should...but I'll try.


Typical tyranny of the majority speech.

Tyranny
yr·an·ny (tr-n)
n. pl. tyr·an·nies
1. A government in which a single ruler is vested with absolute power.

Majority
ma·jor·i·ty (m-jôr-t, -jr-)
n. pl. ma·jor·i·ties
1. The greater number or part; a number more than half of the total.

Since the majority isn't one and the majority isn't a government, no tyranny. Also, in case you didn't realize, we live in a representative republic where people participate in elections and the majority elected officials. Unless of course we're talking the electoral college and even then, the majority winner of that gets the nod.

If you don't like majorities, classes, and a system of government where nobody gets a choice and everybody is under the same rules, may I suggest communism. It just might be what you're looking for. Just don't expect things to change.

[Aldebaran]

Wow. I'm real impressed with your research skillz.

[2121Sooner]

95% of the people on this board will never have to worry about this. You dont need a passport to go over the Oklahoma/Arkansas border so you all should be just fine.

So simmer down

[SpankyNek]

Imagine the legal guardians of a boy having to explain to the customs officials in Costa Rica why Judith Thompson appears as the boys Father on his passport.

[SCOUT]

One column should be "Legend" and the other should be "Leader."

Genius

[stoopified]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_kyYaMHB4tGw/SsU7zi4aRYI/AAAAAAAADkM/uA_F-p2YZFg/s400/thing1+%26thing2.jpg :)

[Okla-homey]

Folks. They can peecee the family order to smitthereens and re-define "family" however they wish, but the fact remains; for about 5000 years of human history, a family is defined as a female mother, a male father, and assorted kiddoes. Preferably and ideally all living under the same roof in a loving and mutually supportive relationship. IMHO, re-defining "family" to include anythig less than the above, is little more than a thinly-veiled attempt to validate arrangements that are something less. And I mean "less" in every substantive sense.

[yermom]

5000 years in what culture?

[Leroy Lizard]

Folks. They can peecee the family order to smitthereens and re-define "family" however they wish, but the fact remains; for about 5000 years of human history, a family is defined as a female mother, a male father, and assorted kiddoes. Preferably and ideally all living under the same roof in a loving and mutually supportive relationship. IMHO, re-defining "family" to include anythig less than the above, is little more than a thinly-veiled attempt to validate arrangements that are something less. And I mean "less" in every substantive sense.

Nailed it.

[SpankyNek]

Nailed it.

Not surprising that you are missing the point here, along with Homey.

The Government has no business determining what a family is.

[Midtowner]

Not surprising that you are missing the point here, along with Homey.

The Government has no business determining what a family is.

Or what a family is not?

[Leroy Lizard]

Not surprising that you are missing the point here, along with Homey.

The Government has no business determining what a family is.

It does all the time. The entire concept of "Deadbeat Dad" is the government enforcing familial responsibilities. What would you say if the dad says, "I refuse to pay child support because I don't consider myself a parent"?

[sappstuf]

It does all the time. The entire concept of "Deadbeat Parent 2" is the government enforcing familial responsibilities. What would you say if Parent 2 says, "I refuse to pay child support because I don't consider myself a Parent 2"?

FIFY!

[SpankyNek]

It does all the time. The entire concept of "Deadbeat Dad" is the government enforcing familial responsibilities. What would you say if the dad says, "I refuse to pay child support because I don't consider myself a parent"?

I would say enforce what the court orders.

A mother could also be the payor. (or parent 2).

Obviously a "father" is absolved from such duties if he allows a couple of lesbians to obtain "guardianship" of said child.

I am sure there have been support orders placed upon non traditional families when having unions dissolved.

[Blue]

Folks. They can peecee the family order to smitthereens and re-define "family" however they wish, but the fact remains; for about 5000 years of human history, a family is defined as a female mother, a male father, and assorted kiddoes. Preferably and ideally all living under the same roof in a loving and mutually supportive relationship. IMHO, re-defining "family" to include anythig less than the above, is little more than a thinly-veiled attempt to validate arrangements that are something less. And I mean "less" in every substantive sense.

Nice.

[Leroy Lizard]

I would say enforce what the court orders.

A mother could also be the payor. (or parent 2).

Obviously a "father" is absolved from such duties if he allows a couple of lesbians to obtain "guardianship" of said child.

I am sure there have been support orders placed upon non traditional families when having unions dissolved.

The courts are very much in the business of determining who is and who is not a parent.

[SpankyNek]

The courts are very much in the business of determining who is and who is not a parent.
True, but I don't believe that paternity is of import when requesting guardian of record during international travel.

If a child is adopted, do you purport that the blood parents are legally required to be on a child's passport?

[Leroy Lizard]

True, but I don't believe that paternity is of import when requesting guardian of record during international travel.

If a child is adopted, do you purport that the blood parents are legally required to be on a child's passport?

I don't believe they are called mother or father anyway.

[waynepayne]

America! **** Yeah!



I have found my sig.

[47straight]

Folks. They can peecee the family order to smitthereens and re-define "family" however they wish, but the fact remains; for about 5000 years of human history, a family is defined as a female mother, a male father, and assorted kiddoes. Preferably and ideally all living under the same roof in a loving and mutually supportive relationship. IMHO, re-defining "family" to include anythig less than the above, is little more than a thinly-veiled attempt to validate arrangements that are something less. And I mean "less" in every substantive sense.

WTF did you think would be the natural consequence of the same-sex marriage you champion?

[Chuck Bao]

I know that you guys are just having your fun.

Personally, I think that this relatively small change is appropriate and needed in the context of the modern family.

Also, I'm hoping that this is a step towards the US State Department finally recognizing same-sex marriages between Americans and foreign nationals.

Alrighty now, carry on with the anti-PC cattlecrap.

[romanvandal]

No offense... but why is this such a big deal? We have bigger and better things to worry about as a country. Such as: national debt, social security, etc.

[bonkuba]

No offense... but why is this such a big deal? We have bigger and better things to worry about as a country. Such as: national debt, social security, etc.


For me....and not to single your post out.....it is how most of this crap has slipped through. Those of us that believe morals are still important have watched this stuff being slowly implemented as we are told "there are more important things to deal with....don't you feel bad??"

Again, I am not bashing your post.

[Aldebaran]

http://www.regruntled.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/youngearth.gif

[Aldebaran]

For me....and not to single your post out.....it is how most of this crap has slipped through. Those of us that believe morals are still important have watched this stuff being slowly implemented as we are told "there are more important things to deal with....don't you feel bad??"

Again, I am not bashing your post.

Morals or bigoted values?

[bonkuba]

Morals or bigoted values?


Morals......something most have but are afraid to speak of because of comments such as this.

[SpankyNek]

Morals......something most have but are afraid to speak of because of comments such as this.

Morality legislation should not be championed by those that would simultaneously push for a smaller government...the two are mutually exclusive.

A marriage is a religious rite. The government has no business recognizing ANY marriages. Civil Union contracts should be afforded to any that share a household together. Why do we extend this benefit to business and not to society at large?

[Aldebaran]

Morals......something most have but are afraid to speak of because of comments such as this.


For what it's worth, if it wasn't bigoted, I wouldn't have called it bigoted. You call it morals, but I fail to see what is moral about oppressing the rights of a minority for the sake of a bigoted set of values.

Wanting freedom as long as it's mom and dad on the passport is a pretty crappy concept of freedom.

[Midtowner]

Why do we extend this benefit to business and not to society at large?

We sorta kinda do. Same sex couples, in Oklahoma, can settle their property issues in court with a dissolution of partnership case. Now, I don't like to be the lawyer walking into a Payne County District Court on the civil docket representing one of two former lesbian partners, but we do have options.

That said, the big problem with that is when those two have established a parental relationship with a child. Not sure what you could do there 'cept tell your client they have no remedy.

[Ike]

Folks. They can peecee the family order to smitthereens and re-define "family" however they wish, but the fact remains; for about 5000 years of human history, a family is defined as a female mother, a male father, and assorted kiddoes. Preferably and ideally all living under the same roof in a loving and mutually supportive relationship. IMHO, re-defining "family" to include anythig less than the above, is little more than a thinly-veiled attempt to validate arrangements that are something less. And I mean "less" in every substantive sense.

Your argument has failed to convince me that this is something worth caring about.

[Sooner_Bob]

For what it's worth, if it wasn't bigoted, I wouldn't have called it bigoted. You call it morals, but I fail to see what is moral about oppressing the rights of a minority for the sake of a bigoted set of values.

Wanting freedom as long as it's mom and dad on the passport is a pretty crappy concept of freedom.

Call me a bigot then because morally I believe a "marriage" is between a man and a woman and that a traditional family consists of a mom and a dad.

I have no obligation to condone a lifestyle (or anything else) I feel is wrong. Trying to guilt me into tolerating it by calling me a bigot is a copout.

[Ike]

Call me a bigot then because morally I believe a "marriage" is between a man and a woman and that a traditional family consists of a mom and a dad.

I have no obligation to condone a lifestyle (or anything else) I feel is wrong. Trying to guilt me into tolerating it by calling me a bigot is a copout.

Are you really condoning another lifestyle by simply accepting the fact that familial arrangements which may be different from yours can and do exist? Further, if you do not condone a particular lifestyle, is it therefore necessary to demand that government cater to the lifestyle(s) you do condone? Are you obligated to righteous indignation when a government form allows for a larger set of lifestyles and/or familial arrangements than just the ones you condone?

[bonkuba]

For what it's worth, if it wasn't bigoted, I wouldn't have called it bigoted. You call it morals, but I fail to see what is moral about oppressing the rights of a minority for the sake of a bigoted set of values.

Wanting freedom as long as it's mom and dad on the passport is a pretty crappy concept of freedom.

Wrong (of course)....and weak argument. Always gotta throw the bigot word around......:rolleyes:

Mom and Dad, as you stated above, are the reason you and I exist....not because two same sex folks decided to bump things around a little......

Morals are what built this country into the greatest country in the world. If you can't or won't believe that then I really do feel sorry for you.

I know that you will have some cute "bigot" type remark to fire back.......which is useless.....but have fun with it.:D

[SpankyNek]

Wrong (of course)....and weak argument. Always gotta throw the bigot word around......:rolleyes:

Mom and Dad, as you stated above, are the reason you and I exist....not because two same sex folks decided to bump things around a little......

Morals are what built this country into the greatest country in the world. If you can't or won't believe that then I really do feel sorry for you.

I know that you will have some cute "bigot" type remark to fire back.......which is useless.....but have fun with it.:D

Iran has a far higher standard of traditional "moral code" than the US. Morals are NOT the benchmark for determining a country's greatness.

[Sooner_Bob]

Are you really condoning another lifestyle by simply accepting the fact that familial arrangements which may be different from yours can and do exist?

Wouldn't you consider not speaking out against something you believe to be wrong condoning it? Doesn't that meet the definition of condone?



Further, if you do not condone a particular lifestyle, is it therefore necessary to demand that government cater to the lifestyle(s) you do condone?


In this case wouldn't the government be catering to something I do not condone? The change is being made to cater to alternative lifestyles that many folks disagree with. I didn't demand this change.



Are you obligated to righteous indignation when a government form allows for a larger set of lifestyles and/or familial arrangements than just the ones you condone?

I get hacked off about a lot of things . . . sometimes it isn't always necessary, but why is it always considered being righteous when someone a little more conservative speaks out against something?

Accepting little things like this change sets the stage for larger changes that could ultimately affect folks who disagree with the lifestyle.

[Aldebaran]

Morals are what built this country into the greatest country in the world. If you can't or won't believe that then I really do feel sorry for you.

I don't need fantasies that require me to gloss over Slavery, Indian Removal, Using nuclear weapons on civilian populations, etc. We are a great country. Almost as great as the myths we tell about ourselves.

[bonkuba]

Iran has a far higher standard of traditional "moral code" than the US. Morals are NOT the benchmark for determining a country's greatness.

Seriously??:D :D Iran....:D :D ....don't even know how to respond to such a crazy statement.

Try telling my grandfather or his generation that morals had nothing to do with our great country. If they were a little younger they would show you how foot meets ***. They built what you and I have now......

Yep....morals are a great benchmark of our country...like it or not....you can't change it. Some are trying to do so, but will fail....

I am still laughing at the Iran piece.....:D

[Ike]

Wouldn't you consider not speaking out against something you believe to be wrong condoning it? Doesn't that meet the definition of condone?

speaking out against language on a form is not the same as speaking out against a particular lifestyle. And while you may not condone the lifestyle, shouldn't a form that is supposed to gather accurate information about our citizens ask questions that can be answered by all of our citizens?


In this case wouldn't the government be catering to something I do not condone? The change is being made to cater to alternative lifestyles that many folks disagree with. I didn't demand this change.


But it does seem that you are demanding a change back to 'mother/father', the more specific language, from 'parent1/parent2', the more general language. If this were catering to someone elses lifestyle, the new language might be instead 'father/father', or 'mother/mother' or 'father/mother/mother/mother...'. So no, I don't buy that using more general language is catering to an alternative lifestyle. It's more a recognition that alternative lifestyles do exist, and if the government is to do it's job of having correct information about it's citizens on their passports, then it should use the most general language possible.



I get hacked off about a lot of things . . . sometimes it isn't always necessary, but why is it always considered being righteous when someone a little more conservative speaks out against something?

Accepting little things like this change sets the stage for larger changes that could ultimately affect folks who disagree with the lifestyle.

Why is it righteous indignation when someone speaks out against a move from a specific question that may not apply to everyone to more general questions on a form designed to acquire accurate information about our citizens? Well, because it is exactly the same as the pissing and moaning about people saying 'happy holidays' in place of 'merry christmas'.

[SpankyNek]

Seriously??:D :D Iran....:D :D ....don't even know how to respond to such a crazy statement.

Try telling my grandfather or his generation that morals had nothing to do with our great country. If they were a little younger they would show you how foot meets ***. They built what you and I have now......

Yep....morals are a great benchmark of our country...like it or not....you can't change it. Some are trying to do so, but will fail....

I am still laughing at the Iran piece.....:D
Ever read the Bible? The Code of Hammurabi? The Qur'an?
These are the cornerstones of the moral code.

I can promise you that the great moral laws of the world's civilizations are followed more closely in the middle east than we can ever hope (or care) to achieve.

[DIB]

Call me a bigot then because morally I believe a "marriage" is between a man and a woman and that a traditional family consists of a mom and a dad.

I have no obligation to condone a lifestyle (or anything else) I feel is wrong. Trying to guilt me into tolerating it by calling me a bigot is a copout.

So, your problem isn't just with homosexuals. Its with everyone that's different. What about single parent households? What about a family that consists of an older sibling raising their younger siblings? What about two grandparents, because the parents died? What about an aunt and uncle? What about Godparents that aren't blood related to the child they're raising?

Do you disapprove of their "lifestyles?"

[bonkuba]

I don't need fantasies that require me to gloss over Slavery, Indian Removal, Using nuclear weapons on civilian populations, etc. We are a great country. Almost as great as the myths we tell about ourselves.

Gloss over?? Seems like you may have a little gloss clouding your mind there my friend. Or maybe inhaled a little too much gloss?:D :D

The myth portion is pretty good as well....

You seriously are just being argumentative right? Come on......heh :D

Oh yeah....believe the myth.

[DIB]

America's moral code is the Constitution. Maybe you should focus less on your morals and focus more on personal freedom.

[bonkuba]

heh......ok you win :D

[DIB]

Gloss over?? Seems like you may have a little gloss clouding your mind there my friend. Or maybe inhaled a little too much gloss?:D :D

The myth portion is pretty good as well....

You seriously are just being argumentative right? Come on......heh :D

Oh yeah....believe the myth.


heh......ok you win :D

Excellent use of deflection. An ideal tactic to appear like you are responding, when you don't have something intelligent to say.

[XingTheRubicon]

^^^internet champion^^^

[bonkuba]

Ever read the Bible? The Code of Hammurabi? The Qur'an?
These are the cornerstones of the moral code.

I can promise you that the great moral laws of the world's civilizations are followed more closely in the middle east than we can ever hope (or care) to achieve.

Let's see.....the Bible - yes....Code of Hammy - been a while but yes........the Qur'an - unfortunately yes.

[bonkuba]

Excellent use of deflection. An ideal tactic to appear like you are responding, when you don't have something intelligent to say.

You figured me out....damn you are good :D Big words scare me so I will go now.

[bonkuba]

^^^internet champion^^^

Are there cookies too? I am kinda hungry after playing with the kiddos :)

[DIB]

^^^internet champion^^^

Wow. What an honor. It would have been enough just to be nominated. I would like to thank God. And Parent 1 and 2 for making me into the internet superstar that I am today. God Bless America...and no one else.

[bonkuba]

Wow. What an honor. It would have been enough just to be nominated. I would like to thank God. And Parent 1 and 2 for making me into the internet superstar that I am today. God Bless America...and no one else.

:D :D

[Sooner_Bob]

So, your problem isn't just with homosexuals. Its with everyone that's different. What about single parent households? What about a family that consists of an older sibling raising their younger siblings? What about two grandparents, because the parents died? What about an aunt and uncle? What about Godparents that aren't blood related to the child they're raising?

Do you disapprove of their "lifestyles?"

If you took that from my post then I apologize. That's not what I meant to communicate.

Single parents have the hardest job in the world. But last time I checked they were either a mom or a dad. Not "parent 1" or "parent 2".

The other cases you mentioned are considered "guardians" and as I've pointed out before would be covered on forms with the labels "parent/guardian".

[SpankyNek]

If you took that from my post then I apologize. That's not what I meant to communicate.

Single parents have the hardest job in the world. But last time I checked they were either a mom or a dad. Not "parent 1" or "parent 2".

The other cases you mentioned are considered "guardians" and as I've pointed out before would be covered on forms with the labels "parent/guardian".

I think this is the essence of the change..it merely says parent1 and parent2 instead of 2 spaces for parent/guardian.

[Sooner_Bob]

speaking out against language on a form is not the same as speaking out against a particular lifestyle. And while you may not condone the lifestyle, shouldn't a form that is supposed to gather accurate information about our citizens ask questions that can be answered by all of our citizens?

But it does seem that you are demanding a change back to 'mother/father', the more specific language, from 'parent1/parent2', the more general language. If this were catering to someone elses lifestyle, the new language might be instead 'father/father', or 'mother/mother' or 'father/mother/mother/mother...'. So no, I don't buy that using more general language is catering to an alternative lifestyle. It's more a recognition that alternative lifestyles do exist, and if the government is to do it's job of having correct information about it's citizens on their passports, then it should use the most general language possible.



Why is it righteous indignation when someone speaks out against a move from a specific question that may not apply to everyone to more general questions on a form designed to acquire accurate information about our citizens? Well, because it is exactly the same as the pissing and moaning about people saying 'happy holidays' in place of 'merry christmas'.


I don't care anymore . . . if labeling someone as "mother" and "father" is insensitive then so be it. By all means change it so nobody gets their feelings hurt.

Let's spend the money to change every Federal form to take into account every possible change, lifestyle, situation known to man.

And then redo it when a new lifestyle or situation comes to light.

Sheesh.

[Sooner_Bob]

I think this is the essence of the change..it merely says parent1 and parent2 instead of 2 spaces for parent/guardian.


Parent/Guardian doesn't cover everyone who could possibly need covered?

[Turd_Ferguson]

Parent/Guardian doesn't cover everyone who could possibly need covered?I think he's just using deflection.

[SpankyNek]

Parent/Guardian doesn't cover everyone who could possibly need covered?

It would, but the form currently says "Father" and "Mother"...I would see no problem changing it to Parent/Guardian as opposed to Parent1/2

[AlboSooner]

Everything else is fixed, so this was the only thing the govt hadn't fixed. thanks uncle sam

[3rdgensooner]

Wow. What an honor. It would have been enough just to be nominated. I would like to thank God. And Parent 1 and 2 for making me into the internet superstar that I am today. God Bless America...and no one else.
I could totally hear Freddie Mercury singing in the background...

[yermom]

It would, but the form currently says "Father" and "Mother"...I would see no problem changing it to Parent/Guardian as opposed to Parent1/2

what is the difference?

[saucysoonergal]

Beldar and Primat say they prefer "Parental Unit One" and "Parental Unit Two".

[SpankyNek]

what is the difference?

My point exactly.

[Aldebaran]

The internet champion posts amongst us. These are heady days.

[AlboSooner]

The internet champion posts amongst us. These are heady days.

lol :hot: