big 12-2 next year...

[CORNholio]

At first glance when examining the new fangled big 12-2 I could not help but grade it as pure **** and doomed for self destruction. After taking another look I now think it might just be a fairly deep conference with some hope. For example:
1. OU--poised for a title run, annual top 5
2. TX--should be back to usual self at least by 2012, annual top 10
3. OkSt--Lots of momentum could become an annual top 15 team in the '10s
4. A&M--Same as OkSt but with a higher ceiling, could be annual top 10
5. Mizzou--Lacks annual consistency but is still an upstart program with
loads of potential, annual top 20 with occasional top 10 finish
6. TTech--Here's the first steep drop, but if Tubberville gets the ball rolling
and doesn't bolt they could once again become an annual top 25 team
7. K-State--Could be an annual bowl team, not much hope to return to
glory days but still has potential to be quality bowl team
8. Baylor--Upstart program catching some momentum but a very long way
to go before any consistent level of success
9. KU--Bowl game every 4 or 5 years mostly an easy W for the rest of
the Conf
10. ISU--An upset over Tx once every 100yrs is all they really
contribute except for making it an even 10

Chance of survival--60%. Still better than the Big East
Not as bad as it looked at first, would be even more bad *** if TCU was thrown in the mix as well as Arky or ND

Thoughts...

[JLEW1818]

need to add 2 teams in the near future.

conference championship game.

[soonergirlNeugene]

Well I like that with all the teams playing each other, we don't have an entire division that gets to sleepwalk its way into the title game. With the North as sorry as it's been, most years that title game has been a sham.

[CORNholio]

unless one of the top 7 programs goes into a tailspin, we still send 7 team to bowls every year, could easily get 2 teams in the BCS every year. If teams actually schedule decent OOC games strength of schedule stays basically the same

[CORNholio]

need to add 2 teams in the near future.

conference championship game.

that's the only thing that sucks, people talk crap about the CCG but it was always exciting

[usaosooner]

The new look Big XII sucks... I hope something goes down this offseason

[CORNholio]

The new look Big XII sucks... I hope something goes down this offseason

Just look at the cream of the crop.
OU, TX, A&M, OkSt, Mizzou
All of those teams should be ranked next year, couple in the top 10. That's not a bad conference, it's no SEC but it's not much worse than it ever was
That means we play at the very least 4 ranked teams every year, that's about 4 times more than the teams in the big east

[usaosooner]

Just look at the cream of the crop.
OU, TX, A&M, OkSt, Mizzou
All of those teams should be ranked next year, couple in the top 10. That's not a bad conference, it's no SEC but it's not much worse than it ever was
That means we play at the very least 4 ranked teams every year, that's about 4 times more than the teams in the big east

Dane Beebe is that you?

Its in the Pokes nature to crash, Mizzou just lost its QB to the draft, Texas has EXTREME personnel issues,and Aggie starts slow... Thats without mentioning the little sisters of the poor..

[sperry]

Yeah the Big XII is a pretty ****ty conference now. You have OU who is obviously great, Texas who is a great program but won't be good for at least a year or two, and then you have a bunch of second rate at best programs. You also no longer have the conference championship game, which gave our best team a prime time game against a usually pretty decent team.

[Mazeppa]

Why not bring in two more teams, have two divisions and at the end of the season play the best two teams regardless of division.

[MeMyself&Me]

I hope something goes down this offseason

Me too. I don't think they're going to try to do anything but this is what they should do.

First, offer Notre Dame a spot. Point out the fact they can have their own network like tejas and likely OU. Point out that the unequal revenue sharing structure of the Big 12 favors Notre Dame. Point out hat because of those first two points Notre Dame would make more money in the Big 12 than it would anywhere else, including Big 10, Big East, or indy. Tell them, they can bring along any other single program they want that is willing... they can name the one that makes it 12. Point out they have a good chance of dominating a Big 12 North division.

Of course, Notre Dame will say no despite all that.

Then respectfully tell Notre Dame, "We understand and expected that. And we have a contingency plan in case you said no but we want you to know about it before moving forward since it may effect you and you may change your mind." Explain to Notre Dame that plan B will be to invite Louisville, West Virginia, Pittsburgh, and either Cincinnati or South Florida... shooting for 14 total. I think those (or at least enough of those) Big East teams would jump at the opportunity.

Of course plan B would not only place the Big 12 in a Stronger position by adding several large markets and a couple of good programs as well but it also directly places Notre Dame in an uneasy position by targeting the conference that has all their non-football sports AND by restarting the super-conference race.

Once that's been laid on the table, the Big 12 may get Notre Dame or the Big 12 may lay waist to the Big East. Either way, the Big 12 would be much better than it is now.

[MeMyself&Me]

Why not bring in two more teams, have two divisions and at the end of the season play the best two teams regardless of division.

What would be the point of having the divisions?

[CORNholio]

Me too. I don't think they're going to try to do anything but this is what they should do.

First, offer Notre Dame a spot. Point out the fact they can have their own network like tejas and likely OU. Point out that the unequal revenue sharing structure of the Big 12 favors Notre Dame. Point out hat because of those first two points Notre Dame would make more money in the Big 12 than it would anywhere else, including Big 10, Big East, or indy. Tell them, they can bring along any other single program they want that is willing... they can name the one that makes it 12. Point out they have a good chance of dominating a Big 12 North division.

Of course, Notre Dame will say no despite all that.

Then respectfully tell Notre Dame, "We understand and expected that. And we have a contingency plan in case you said no but we want you to know about it before moving forward since it may effect you and you may change your mind." Explain to Notre Dame that plan B will be to invite Louisville, West Virginia, Pittsburgh, and either Cincinnati or South Florida... shooting for 14 total. I think those (or at least enough of those) Big East teams would jump at the opportunity.

Of course plan B would not only place the Big 12 in a Stronger position by adding several large markets and a couple of good programs as well but it also directly places Notre Dame in an uneasy position by targeting the conference that has all their non-football sports AND by restarting the super-conference race.

Once that's been laid on the table, the Big 12 may get Notre Dame or the Big 12 may lay waist to the Big East. Either way, the Big 12 would be much better than it is now.

Adding Big East teams dilutes the product. Also it makes no geographic sense. It's not the big 12's fault New Mexico, wyoming, Colorado (a more populous state than Oklahoma) have no decent programs. Nor is it the big 12's fault that Missouri with what like 6mil people has only one team, really WTH Missouri? With all that said if you are going to go against geography to add teams at least go after national powers, no thank you cincy/south fla/Pitt/Louisville.

[CORNholio]

If and when expansion happens I hope it is to the west or southwest and not the northeast (with the exception of ND). I'll take TCU, AZ, ASU or BYU over any big east team. It's not as horrible right now as everyone is making it out to be though, until this year the Pac-10 and big 10 didn't have championship games or divisions and were considered in the top tier of conferences.

[SoonerGrant]

I'd put Colorado between Baylor and KU for next year. They don't bring much to the table, maybe they will have better luck in the PAC10.

[CORNholio]

I would settle for Tulsa and TCU at the very least, or leave it the hell alone. Tulsa prepare to be gang raped. I don't care about the almighty TV market. I am a fan. I want quality FB games and perhaps a championship game. I actually think given time Tulsa could compete with Baylor/ISU.

[ouwasp]

When a Big XII teams gets left out of the MNC game because the Big 10, SEC, or Pac 12 squeezes by due to a ccg, Dan Beebe should be ousted and mayhem ensue...

While I didn't care for the threat of the ccg to a highly ranked OU team (esp if it was in deep-freeze KC), I think they are about to become a necessary evil.

I think the Big XII has to expand to survive. And not by adding dog-meat teams.

[CORNholio]

When a Big XII teams gets left out of the MNC game because the Big 10, SEC, or Pac 12 squeezes by due to a ccg, Dan Beebe should be ousted and mayhem ensue...

While I didn't care for the threat of the ccg to a highly ranked OU team (esp if it was in deep-freeze KC), I think they are about to become a necessary evil.

I think the Big XII has to expand to survive. And not by adding dog-meat teams.

If the Big 12 ever gets another CCG can we exlude arrowhead from the list of possible sites forever. The north's influence is officially gone. Outside in KC in winter sucks. Mizzou, deal with it.

[MeMyself&Me]

Adding Big East teams dilutes the product. Also it makes no geographic sense. It's not the big 12's fault New Mexico, wyoming, Colorado (a more populous state than Oklahoma) have no decent programs. Nor is it the big 12's fault that Missouri with what like 6mil people has only one team, really WTH Missouri? With all that said if you are going to go against geography to add teams at least go after national powers, no thank you cincy/south fla/Pitt/Louisville.

Geography isn't as important as it used to be for one. Second, once divided into divisions, it wouldn't be that bad.

What national powers do you think the Big 12 could get. Nobody's leaving the SEC, Big 10, or Pac 10 to join the Big 12.

Maintaining the Big 12's future viability is about gaining market shares. We've talked about this quite a bit on this forum. It's not new. The Big East is ripe with big markets for one and Pitt and West Virginia aren't bad overall programs. They don't have Nebraska's history but they're not bad. I do think if we're stretching that far out that a couple more teams would make for better geographic divisions though and that's the reason for including the other two teams but that's not all that necessary.


Now as to my scenario, there is the possibility that Notre Dame just decides to take their chances in the Big East, joining them finally in football and, in that case, those teams may decide to stay put. So "plan C" would be to go after BYU and someone else. The problem with that line is that I don't know if there's another really good option to come in with BYU. We'd basically be adding a team for the sake of getting to 12 to have a conference championship game. Would having a conference championship game be worth feeding an extra mouth that adds virtually nothing? The ones I think that fit that scenario would be Colorado St (bad program but does expand market to Colorado), Air Force Academy (mediocre program but good academics, which is important to Uni Pres, and has a unique appeal), and TCU. Everyone that doesn't think it through wants TCU but they don't add a market that the Big 12 doesn't already control. They would give more people a reason to turn on their TV sets and get higher ratings though, assuming they remain successful. But I think their level of success would fall in the Big 12 under any circumstance for one, their success is completely linked to how long Patterson sticks around for two, and their effect on TV contract revenue for the conference would not be felt until TV ratings were proven for three. In the end, they would eventually add no more to the Big 12 than Baylor.

I do think the Big 12 needs to find a viable way to get back to 12 or more teams. Now that the other 'good' conferences have a championship game, the Big 12's lack of one is going to hurt it. This comes from one that doesn't like the conference champ games.

[CORNholio]

It get's hairy when talking about expansion. In this scenario maybe expansion should also include exclusion. Reassess the teams included. Take the core--OU, OkSt, TX, A&M, TTech, Mizzou, KU (for basketball) and run with it. Make bold moves. If it's all about money, then make it all about money, show Arky, ND, AZ, ASU, TCU, LSU how much more money they can make in this conf than they do now. But don't pretend that it is about one thing and then not treat it as so. If it is all about the dollar then LSU Arky ND AZ ASU can all be swayed with enough of the green.

[MeMyself&Me]

It get's hairy when talking about expansion. In this scenario maybe expansion should also include exclusion. Reassess the teams included. Take the core--OU, OkSt, TX, A&M, TTech, Mizzou, KU (for basketball) and run with it. Make bold moves. If it's all about money, then make it all about money, show Arky, ND, AZ, ASU, TCU, LSU how much more money they can make in this conf than they do now. But don't pretend that it is about one thing and then not treat it as so. If it is all about the dollar then LSU Arky ND AZ ASU can all be swayed with enough of the green.

You can't just 'dump' the dead weight. Well, not in any clean way. You can't just vote Iowa State off the island. You could dissolve the conference but that would mean getting a super majority vote which would have to include some of that dead weight (not going to happen). More likely, you could leave and pay a penalty to the teams you left behind (not cheap).

Having said that, I will agree the idea scenario would be for the the major players of the Big 12 to dissolve the thing and band together with some other close geographic teams that make a simple 8 team conference power players. Imagine a conference like that was simply OU, Texas, Texas A&M, Arkansas, Kansas, LSU, Missouri, Nebraska. But that's nothing but a pipe dream if that. Saying it's only about money is too simplistic. For the Big 12 it's about what is feasible to stay competitive and money is a part of that when you talk about other conferences making more than double per team than the Big 12's members. For programs not in the Big 12, it's about whether breaking tradition is worth the jump to something unproven that might make more money.

[Football Jim]

Forgive me if I missed this being said, but WHAT makes the loss of Colorado any loss at all??? And the corn??? Really, what have they done but suck for over a decade. Sure they could win the north, but so could Baylor if given the chance.
Both of these programs are stuck in neutral.

[soonergirlNeugene]

My only concern about the loss of the championship game is that without a championship to cement the top team, we are likely in for an extended visit from the Mack Brown whaaambulance any time we run into a situation where there is a multi-team tie at the top. He will whine and cry from the last snap of his final game till the bowl selections are made. One thing the championship did was put a final win against any kind of crying attempt he made to bend the rules to suit his team at the end of the season.

[sperry]

A lack of a Big XII championship game could hurt the Sooners in the very first season.


Ryan Broyles needs 1575 yards to break the NCAA career receiving yardage record. Broyles topped that number this year, but would not have done so without a conference championship game.

[MeMyself&Me]

Forgive me if I missed this being said, but WHAT makes the loss of Colorado any loss at all??? And the corn??? Really, what have they done but suck for over a decade. Sure they could win the north, but so could Baylor if given the chance.
Both of these programs are stuck in neutral.

Colorado is associated with a large market. Nebraska is a nationally recognized brand. Both of which are important.

Additionally, the other good conferences have a conference championship game, the Big 12's lack of one is going to hurt in both the human polls and the computer polls:

The human voters are likely to perceive the conference as weaker, or at least view the conference winners road as easier than the SEC, Big 10, and Pac 10 winners since the Big 12 champ didn't have to play an extra game against a good opponent and vote the Big 12 champ lower than other conference champs with similar records.

The computers will hurt the Big 12 champ as well. Since record is one part they use, a 12-1 is better than 11-1. That extra win that the other conference champs have on the books will lessen the effect of any comparative losses. Also, the computers look at strength of schedule. Playing a team with even a Big 12 North champ type record strengthens your strength of schedule. The SEC, Big 10, and Pac 10 champs will be getting that boost. The Big 12 champ will not.

The BCS championship has included a Big 12 team 7 of the last 11 years and usually, if there was a question about who should go, the Big 12 got in. The Big 12 will still send teams to the national championship game but I'm sure the frequency at which that's been happening is pretty much done until the Big 12 finds a fix.