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badger
12/27/2010, 11:45 AM
I was once told this about a certain history professor, that to take his class was to take an F and to have absolutely no chance of passing by midterm. I never took his class, but after reading this, I can see why students have a difficult time with him.

OU professor: Heck no to techno (http://newsok.com/ou-professor-heck-no-to-techno/article/3526300?custom_click=lead_story_title)

I am sure anyone who has attended OU recently knows that I am referring to none other than William Savage. There are other professors out there that are determined to fail you, yes, but I've heard that this one absolutely stacks the deck against students, even for 1000 level classes.

I am probably being unfair - I've never taken his classes. Anyone here experience his teaching?

Howzit
12/27/2010, 11:49 AM
Not him, but there used to be an EE prof named Zelby that was the reason I changed majors. He was Hungarian and still sported the concentration camp tatoo'ed numbers on his forearms from his childhood.

I can't imagine what a miserable experience he went through, but he seemed bound and determined to make everyone else's life just as miserable.

Deer lowered I hated that man.

soonerchk
12/27/2010, 11:59 AM
Meh, they said that about Intermediate Accounting as well and I still survived.

badger
12/27/2010, 12:02 PM
There was a prof in the JMC college that seemed to especially hate male students, but every student warned everyone else to avoid her classes. I didn't listen and somehow made a B, but worked my arse off for it. I wonder if that's why people take this guy's class... that and not being able to get into other History prof's classes I guess

Boomer_Sooner_sax
12/27/2010, 12:27 PM
I had this professor and the horror stories are true. I had to retake Oklahoma history...seriously. That guy is a few cents shy of a dollar. Oh, and I wasn't the only one retaking that stupid class either. Over half of my first class was retaking it as well, thankfully, with a different professor.

PhxSooner
12/27/2010, 12:41 PM
Not him, but there used to be an EE prof named Zelby that was the reason I changed majors. He was Hungarian and still sported the concentration camp tatoo'ed numbers on his forearms from his childhood.

I can't imagine what a miserable experience he went through, but he seemed bound and determined to make everyone else's life just as miserable.

Deer lowered I hated that man.

My husband had him. Absolutely brutal class. People were happy to get out with a D.

waynepayne
12/27/2010, 12:51 PM
I was once told this about a certain history professor, that to take his class was to take an F and to have absolutely no chance of passing by midterm. I never took his class, but after reading this, I can see why students have a difficult time with him.

OU professor: Heck no to techno (http://newsok.com/ou-professor-heck-no-to-techno/article/3526300?custom_click=lead_story_title)

I am sure anyone who has attended OU recently knows that I am referring to none other than William Savage. There are other professors out there that are determined to fail you, yes, but I've heard that this one absolutely stacks the deck against students, even for 1000 level classes.

I am probably being unfair - I've never taken his classes. Anyone here experience his teaching?


Savage, who tries to have a cigar in his hand whenever he has a photo taken “because it's offensive"





I have no use for people who try to wrap themselves up in a blanket of self-importance.

StoopTroup
12/27/2010, 01:13 PM
If you study and do the work he asks of you....how bad can it be?

You people who expect to get a "C" for showing up kill me.












:D ;) I had a Physics Teacher that once told me I wouldn't do well in his class. I asked why. He told me he doesn't like men with facial hair. I'm still not sure why he felt that way....but I'm proud of that "C" I got from his class.

oumartin
12/27/2010, 01:23 PM
if he hated christianity you people would love him

yermom
12/27/2010, 01:27 PM
future SicEm? :D

a buddy of mine had Zelby in the 80's i think. a couple of years ago he said he ran into him at OU. i don't think he's still teaching, but still around doing something.

but anyway, Savage is right about some things. Powerpoint, for example. i guess it can be used properly, but lots of times, it really sucks sitting through those things. using technology is a balance. i find a lot of merit in eschewing tech some in places.

the_ouskull
12/27/2010, 01:30 PM
Savage, who tries to have a cigar in his hand whenever he has a photo taken “because it's offensive"

I have no use for people who try to wrap themselves up in a blanket of self-importance.

I know, right?

the_ouskull

OULenexaman
12/27/2010, 01:44 PM
I'll bet this guy is a hoarder...if his office looks like that imagine his house..

JohnnyMack
12/27/2010, 01:49 PM
I know, right?

the_ouskull

The irony police called. You're going to jail.

SanJoaquinSooner
12/27/2010, 01:59 PM
http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=219618&page=1

some interesting comments.

crawfish
12/27/2010, 02:01 PM
Not him, but there used to be an EE prof named Zelby that was the reason I changed majors. He was Hungarian and still sported the concentration camp tatoo'ed numbers on his forearms from his childhood.

I can't imagine what a miserable experience he went through, but he seemed bound and determined to make everyone else's life just as miserable.

Deer lowered I hated that man.

Is he the guy who would give students five minutes to ask questions at the end of class, and if he didn't like the question he'd say "too trivial, too trivial" and go to the next question. There were days when every single question was "too trivial". I went to his office to ask a question, he said "did you read the book?" I said yes. He said, "did you speak to the TA?" I said yes, but I still didn't understand. He then said, "well, read the book again, and if you still don't understand it talk to a TA". He put his headphones on and spun around in his chair.

He got me out of the EE program in a hurry.

My Opinion Matters
12/27/2010, 02:02 PM
http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=219618&page=1

some interesting comments.

No one thinks he's hot?

StoopTroup
12/27/2010, 02:13 PM
future SicEm? :D

a buddy of mine had Zelby in the 80's i think. a couple of years ago he said he ran into him at OU. i don't think he's still teaching, but still around doing something.

but anyway, Savage is right about some things. Powerpoint, for example. i guess it can be used properly, but lots of times, it really sucks sitting through those things. using technology is a balance. i find a lot of merit in eschewing tech some in places.

You're exactly right about that. I can't tell you how many training classes I've sat through to have someone stand in front of me and just read the powerpoint presentation to me. It's insane. In the cases I've seen them misused....the program is great for on-line training for specifics and overview and sometimes in reviewing prior to taking a test on the material they want you to know.....but as a tool for a classroom (?) It takes away from me either reading the powerpoint or takes away from me listening to the guy who is teaching. If anything...it would be a great tool to give out prior to a session/meeting or class and could also be a great way for the speaker to stay on track....but as the complete tool for getting a point across....Hell...I can read. I don't need his help. I'm sure I've seen other misuse but this is one that gets me everytime I see it. It's like the guy who made it the presentation just learned how to use powerpoint and is trying to say "Look at me...I'm a geek now!"....lol

badger
12/27/2010, 02:16 PM
terrible instructor. I made an F in his class, and until now I was an honors Sr. with a 4.0. His exams are vague,and he isn't specific about what he wants you to know.

I realize that Rate My Prof, Pick a Prof and Kill a Prof (just kidding about the last one) are all basically revenge sites - you hate the professor, so if you aren't satisfied with badmouthing them on the evaluation, you can badmouth them further on these sites. But... when the comments are nearly universally bad, then it isn't just about students expecting C's for showing up, but some actual issues.

btw, fun site for professors and those who hate them here. (http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/nosymp.htm) here's an example:



Pretentious Twit of the Year Award

Background: A philosophy professor at Syracuse University has a policy that if even one student in a class reads a newspaper or texts during class, he ends the class on the spot and walks out. One student complained:

“We the students are the customers, the consumers, the ones who make the choice every day to pay attention or not. I pay approximately $30,000 to go here, whether I text in class or not.

Get real here. I pay $30K a year? Not very likely. If this student does have that kind of personal wealth, he's too dumb to keep it for very long. But I seriously doubt that. More likely Mummy and Daddy are paying it, or he's getting financial aid, in which case donors to the university and taxpayers are paying it. Or maybe he's taking out loans, which he will pay back, maybe. Unless it becomes inconvenient and he files for bankruptcy. But it's virtually certain this student himself is not the paying customer.

C&CDean
12/27/2010, 02:23 PM
There's two OU profs I hated.

1. Dr. Dorscine Spigner-Littles. Racist bitch who ate cheetos and drank Dr. Pepper while indoctrinating..er I meant teaching. All the problems in the entire universe are the fault of white males. Period.

2. Dr. Harold Grasmick. Not a bad guy, but if you don't love math with a burning passion that borders on sexual obsession, you're ****ed in his classes. I copped a B in a stats class when working on my Master's, and I worked harder for that B than all the A's I got put together.

yermom
12/27/2010, 02:49 PM
i don't know why i remember Grasmick's name. i think i worked on his computer or helped him on the phone and didn't enjoy the process... just a vague impression of doosh in my memory.

most of my profs have been good. i did have a couple of math professors that were pretty rough, and i'm what most would call "good at math"

waynepayne
12/27/2010, 02:58 PM
future SicEm? :D

a buddy of mine had Zelby in the 80's i think. a couple of years ago he said he ran into him at OU. i don't think he's still teaching, but still around doing something.

but anyway, Savage is right about some things. Powerpoint, for example. i guess it can be used properly, but lots of times, it really sucks sitting through those things. using technology is a balance. i find a lot of merit in eschewing tech some in places.

PP is da debil. I find it EXTREMELY frustrating when professors lecture directly off the PP slides and then have the audacity to have attendance policy. :mad:

JohnnyMack
12/27/2010, 02:59 PM
Is Grasmick the one with the kind of crazy gray hair?

If that's him I drew a picture of me flying a plane and dropping a bomb on his head for the answers to a stats final I didn't know how to answer.

I got a C in his class.

Eielson
12/27/2010, 03:01 PM
"Attend class, pay some attention, highly recommended prof."

"Savage is a challenging instructor. If you want a Rogers and Hammerstein version of State history, you won't get it from Savage. He will challenge you and destroy the intellectually lazy. He enjoys tormenting students who do not want to take the class seriously. If you do, it's not actually very hard."

"One of the best professors I ever had. His class is tough, but the lectures are outstanding - and very entertaining. His grading, I might add, is quite fair."

"Very straightforward guy. Wise man aura, with great stories, deep base of knowledge."

I can't help but be interested in his class. If given the choice, I don't know if I would quite have the courage to take it, but I'd certainly have to think about it. If it's all bad, why would he still be teaching at OU?

badger
12/27/2010, 03:03 PM
While some professors are notoriously student unfriendly, it's hard to not remember the ones who are the complete opposite - the ones that do absolutely everything to get the material in your head and give you every chance to succeed (but of course, not just throwing the answer key your way pre-exam).

Two that come to mind right away are Physics extraordinaire Stewart Ryan and Greek/Roman guru Rufus Fears. I never missed either of their classes. Prof. Ryan needed a volunteer to smash a cinder block while he laid flat on a table in front of the class - I think nobody volunteered because of how crazy it sounded, so he volunteered me. I was one of the many who had their throat slit (by the yard stick he always carried around) during an Alexander the Great battle victory lecture. :eek:

badger
12/27/2010, 03:04 PM
I can't help but be interested in his class. If given the choice, I don't know if I would quite have the courage to take it, but I'd certainly have to think about it. If it's all bad, why would he still be teaching at OU?

This class sounds like it would be fun if there weren't grades involved

Eielson
12/27/2010, 03:10 PM
This class sounds like it would be fun if there weren't grades involved

Yeah, that's kinda what I'm thinking.

Frozen Sooner
12/27/2010, 03:19 PM
I realize that Rate My Prof, Pick a Prof and Kill a Prof (just kidding about the last one) are all basically revenge sites - you hate the professor, so if you aren't satisfied with badmouthing them on the evaluation, you can badmouth them further on these sites. But... when the comments are nearly universally bad, then it isn't just about students expecting C's for showing up, but some actual issues.

btw, fun site for professors and those who hate them here. (http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/nosymp.htm) here's an example:

One would think that the webmaster of the site would know that student loan debt is not ordinarily dischargeable in bankruptcy.

sooner59
12/27/2010, 03:28 PM
One would think that the webmaster of the site would know that student loan debt is not ordinarily dischargeable in bankruptcy.

That is what I thought as well. In my MPN, it specifically says that my student loans are not forgiven in the case of bankruptcy. That was uninformed pretentious bull**** if you ask me.

You don't get to choose to do your job whenever you feel like it. If that is the way you view your job as a prof, then you need to be fired immediately as you are wasting people's time and money. If only one person in the class is paying attention, as a teacher, it is your job to at least get through to that person. The university does not pay you to say "**** it" and go play solitaire.

setem
12/27/2010, 03:31 PM
I took Oklahoma History with him 2 years ago. He is a son of a bitch and he screams and yells for no reason. He is not funny, he is not entertaining and the fact that he does not want to keep up with the technologies that aid in teaching means he needs to be sent out to pasture. I have had some rough professors but he is by far the biggest ******* I have ever met!

badger
12/27/2010, 03:36 PM
One would think that the webmaster of the site would know that student loan debt is not ordinarily dischargeable in bankruptcy.

I thought that too, because it's not like an education can be foreclosed on. Free education paid for by someone else??? That's for scholarship recipients, not loan recipients!

So, since we've discussed the exceptions to bankruptcies, are there any exceptions to tenure? If someone got this professor screaming at setem on Youtube, could tenure be revoked?

C&CDean
12/27/2010, 03:39 PM
Is Grasmick the one with the kind of crazy gray hair?

If that's him I drew a picture of me flying a plane and dropping a bomb on his head for the answers to a stats final I didn't know how to answer.

I got a C in his class.

That's him. He has some wild gray hair, sometimes a beard, wears dirty jeans and hippy sandals to class, etc. Seriously, the guy copped wood doing some stats problems on the board. Some Chinese chick "got it" and she got the only A in the class. I really felt bad for the poor black ladies who worked for DHS and were trying to get their Master's so they could get ahead. They were capitally F U C K E D. In tears. Most of them had to take it over with a different prof.

Frozen Sooner
12/27/2010, 03:40 PM
That is what I thought as well. In my MPN, it specifically says that my student loans are not forgiven in the case of bankruptcy. That was uninformed pretentious bull**** if you ask me.

You don't get to choose to do your job whenever you feel like it. If that is the way you view your job as a prof, then you need to be fired immediately as you are wasting people's time and money. If only one person in the class is paying attention, as a teacher, it is your job to at least get through to that person. The university does not pay you to say "**** it" and go play solitaire.

Well, I'm not saying that his point is completely invalid. However, when being supercilious about the "facts" it's a good idea to be solid on what the facts actually are.

I completely agree with the proposition that professors are paid to do a job, and a part of that job is supposed to be teaching. On the other hand, students at the university level and the postgraduate level are supposed to have certain skills--the professor shouldn't be required to make a subject "interesting" to someone not already interested in the subject.

Take my recent experiences:

Your first year of law school, you're generally required to take the same schedule as every other first year student at your school. One of the classes you're required to take at Alabama is Legal Writing and Research.

Quickly popping over to ratemyprofessor.com, one of the legal writing professors got hammered by some people because he "expects you to know how to write before you take the class." Well, no ****. You presumably have a college degree, Sparky. You should, by this time, know how to construct a sentence and correctly punctuate it. The professor is teaching you how to write in a particular format and construct a legal argument, now how to make your subjects and verbs agree.

I also see an attitude in a lot of students that they can and should cut corners wherever possible. I take grief from people because instead of relying on a commercial outline I actually read each and every case assigned and at least "mini-brief" each one. Then those same people wonder why they don't get the grades they want and complain that law school is too hard.

Frozen Sooner
12/27/2010, 03:44 PM
I thought that too, because it's not like an education can be foreclosed on.

That's not the reason why it's exempt from discharge. Plenty of unsecured debt is dischargeable.

It's not dischargeable for one reason: it's guaranteed by the federal government, who doesn't like paying on defaults. Pretty much the only other things that aren't dischargeable are tax obligations and child support.

For what it's worth, I'm in favor of dischargeability of student loans in bankruptcy. However, I'm more and more in favor of also limiting student loans to those who have a hope of repaying them. Giving someone $250k to go to some Tier Four ****hole of a law school so they can make $30k/year as a contract attorney somewhere doesn't make sense.

badger
12/27/2010, 03:53 PM
Giving someone $250k to go to some Tier Four ****hole of a law school so they can make $30k/year as a contract attorney somewhere doesn't make sense.

Mike Leach went to Pepperdine :D

To quote Dumb and Dumber, "So you're saying there's a chance..." ;)

sooner59
12/27/2010, 03:54 PM
That's not the reason why it's exempt from discharge. Plenty of unsecured debt is dischargeable.

It's not dischargeable for one reason: it's guaranteed by the federal government, who doesn't like paying on defaults. Pretty much the only other things that aren't dischargeable are tax obligations and child support.

For what it's worth, I'm in favor of dischargeability of student loans in bankruptcy. However, I'm more and more in favor of also limiting student loans to those who have a hope of repaying them. Giving someone $250k to go to some Tier Four ****hole of a law school so they can make $30k/year as a contract attorney somewhere doesn't make sense.

I agree completely. As far as what you were saying about expectations from students, I understand that as well. If the students don't care about what you are saying, you shouldn't have to find ways to reach them. This isn't Dangerous Minds, its college. If you give students the info needed to do well in the class, it is up to them, even if they think you are a prick for making them work so hard. Some people need that experience at least once. If everybody in a class is performing horribly, there are probably some questions that should be addressed concerning teaching style/methods. Some profs are pricks but fair. And some are pricks and not fair to students. My only quip with them is that they shouldn't be allowed to end the class and leave if one or two students aren't paying attention. There are other students who are actually there to learn who are being cheated out of their educational experience. If it p*sses them off, they should just kick those students out of the class and continue on, IMO.

Frozen Sooner
12/27/2010, 04:12 PM
Mike Leach went to Pepperdine :D

To quote Dumb and Dumber, "So you're saying there's a chance..." ;)

That he did. Pepperdine is a Tier 1 law school.

Note, by the way, that I'm not saying that a law school outside of Tier 1 is worthless. It's just not worth going $250k into debt. Come to think of it, 95% of Tier 1 isn't worth 250k in debt.

Perhaps max student loans should be based on grades after your first semester: if you don't have at least a B average (or whatever) they reduce the total you can borrow.

caseysooner
12/27/2010, 04:21 PM
I had him in 06 and he was horrible

badger
12/27/2010, 04:32 PM
That he did. Pepperdine is a Tier 1 law school.

Apologies for my libelous slander of dear old distinguished Pepperdine - I just figured it was lower because of its party law school rep :D

Frozen Sooner
12/27/2010, 04:35 PM
Believe it or not, it's a pretty good law school. Don't know that it's worth its price tag, but they do a superb job of placing their students at top firms. New Baylor President and former Special Prosecutor Ken Starr was the Dean of the law school until last year.

OUMallen
12/27/2010, 04:40 PM
That he did. Pepperdine is a Tier 1 law school.

Note, by the way, that I'm not saying that a law school outside of Tier 1 is worthless. It's just not worth going $250k into debt. Come to think of it, 95% of Tier 1 isn't worth 250k in debt.

Perhaps max student loans should be based on grades after your first semester: if you don't have at least a B average (or whatever) they reduce the total you can borrow.

This is worth its own thread, Froze.

Frozen Sooner
12/27/2010, 04:42 PM
I don't know how much mileage we can get out of Pepperdine Law. :D

Midtowner
12/27/2010, 04:42 PM
What should be limited is the amount of loans which can be disbursed at all. Private loans should be done away with and if students are defaulting on their school loans, then those schools should not be allowed to collect student loan money.

The current cost of education has skyrocketed in large part due to the ubiquitous student loan money. Some companies, Kaplan, for example have their nice online colleges which charge a mint and have well more than half of their students defaulting on their loans. They also have very questionable practices where they give people the runaround when they try to leave the institution, hammering them for as much extra fees and tuition as they can.

Education has become a scam in some sectors. I don't completely blame the companies though. You also have to blame the idiots dropping 250K on photography degrees.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/04/your-money/04money.html

badger
12/27/2010, 04:53 PM
Oh yeah, totally agree that the student loan availability has driven up prices. OU raises tuition every year (except that recession one a few years back) for a reason. The cancel-out-the-tuition-raise scholarships they offer (OU Legacy I think they're called?) are scams because it's basically like paying last year's tuition rate each year. Woot.

In any event, I just saw that article about that particular prof and wondered if you all had experienced his class which you were all likely warned not to take or to drop immediately. Then, I remembered that other snooty professor's page from awhile ago and decided to link that too just for fun.

Regardless, college is fun, even if it's not supposed to be :D

OutlandTrophy
12/27/2010, 04:53 PM
That he did. Pepperdine is a Tier 1 law school.

Note, by the way, that I'm not saying that a law school outside of Tier 1 is worthless. It's just not worth going $250k into debt. Come to think of it, 95% of Tier 1 isn't worth 250k in debt.

Perhaps max student loans should be based on grades after your first semester: if you don't have at least a B average (or whatever) they reduce the total you can borrow.

should folks majoring in band and education be allowed to borrow as much as folks majoring in engineering and accounting?

Leroy Lizard
12/27/2010, 04:57 PM
My vote goes for Cohn in the physics department. I have never had objects thrown at me by a prof before Cohn. He was a solid teacher, though. And while his grading was bizarre, you could pass if you tried hard enough.

We had a prof in our department many years ago that, to save paper, would use 6 point font on his exams. He was an environmental nut. Some students simply couldn't read the exams. After hearing students complain, I told one of them: "Take a ream of paper and shred it. Stick it outside his door with a note: 'the next time you use 6-point font, we will shred two reams of paper.'"

Worked like a charm. Unfortunately, I cannot recall the profs name.

Frozen Sooner
12/27/2010, 04:57 PM
should folks majoring in band and education be allowed to borrow as much as folks majoring in engineering and accounting?

Should someone who's making Ds in accounting be able to borrow as much as someone making As in education?

In either case, I'm inclined to say no.

Leroy Lizard
12/27/2010, 05:03 PM
Seriously, the guy copped wood doing some stats problems on the board.

I must be old, because I have no idea what this means.

Leroy Lizard
12/27/2010, 05:06 PM
Should someone who's making Ds in accounting be able to borrow as much as someone making As in education?

In either case, I'm inclined to say no.

Agreed. Once you start deeming some majors more worthy of loans than others, you start social engineering. Let people decide for themselves what they want to do. And who's to say that a music major won't make more money than an engineer?

SicEmBaylor
12/27/2010, 05:18 PM
The absolute worst professor that I ever had was an anthropology professor who had taught at OU for like 15 years. I had the first class he taught at Baylor and it was just...awful. He was so dreadful that I can't even find the words to describe the horror of that class.

soonercruiser
12/27/2010, 05:35 PM
I realize that Rate My Prof, Pick a Prof and Kill a Prof (just kidding about the last one) are all basically revenge sites - you hate the professor, so if you aren't satisfied with badmouthing them on the evaluation, you can badmouth them further on these sites. But... when the comments are nearly universally bad, then it isn't just about students expecting C's for showing up, but some actual issues.

btw, fun site for professors and those who hate them here. (http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/nosymp.htm) here's an example:

Am I rated on the site???
:eek:

Midtowner
12/27/2010, 05:49 PM
should folks majoring in band and education be allowed to borrow as much as folks majoring in engineering and accounting?

Funny story...

I know a lady who took out as much (maybe more) student loan debt at a certain private college for her B.A. in music ed than I did for law school. Completely ridiculous that A) she was that effing stupid; and B) that a "Christian" school would do that to someone.

I believe the state should offer training to teachers for free so long as they teach in public schools. Not only that, but the entrance requirements should be highly selective and the salaries would start to look fair if they were doubled.

Also, do away with tenure.

The
12/27/2010, 05:56 PM
Funny story...

I know a lady who took out as much (maybe more) student loan debt at a certain private college for her B.A. in music ed than I did for law school. Completely ridiculous that A) she was that effing stupid; and B) that a "Christian" school would do that to someone.

I believe the state should offer training to teachers for free so long as they teach in public schools. Not only that, but the entrance requirements should be highly selective and the salaries would start to look fair if they were doubled.

Also, do away with tenure.

Atheist Mooslin.

badger
12/27/2010, 06:03 PM
Am I rated on the site???
:eek:

If you are a college prof probably. I've seen TA's on those sites. Look yourself up and then post a few of the comments here :D

Midtowner
12/27/2010, 06:12 PM
Atheist Mooslin.

Nazi Commie.

`

SicEmBaylor
12/27/2010, 06:13 PM
A couple of friends of mine are doctoral students at Tech, and I have another friend who is a full fledged PhD at South Carolina.

I get amused when I look them up at ratemyprof and read what the kids are saying about them.

What isn't amusing is that I used to help one of them with their homework when we were all undergrads, and now they could quite possibly be my professor. That is not so cool. =(

Frozen Sooner
12/27/2010, 06:15 PM
I believe the state should offer training to teachers for free so long as they teach in public schools. Not only that, but the entrance requirements should be highly selective and the salaries would start to look fair if they were doubled.


I find your premises intriguing and wish to subscribe to your pamphlet.

StoopTroup
12/27/2010, 06:16 PM
A couple of friends of mine are doctoral students at Tech, and I have another friend who is a full fledged PhD at South Carolina.

I get amused when I look them up at ratemyprof and read what the kids are saying about them.

What isn't amusing is that I used to help one of them with their homework when we were all undergrads, and now they could quite possibly be my professor. That is not so cool. =(

Maybe you could get them to just send you a degree in the mail? Are you finished yet? I think it sounds like they owe you one. Call em on the debt. :D

SicEmBaylor
12/27/2010, 06:16 PM
Did any of you have an anthropology prof by the name of Abel when you were at OU?

StoopTroup
12/27/2010, 06:17 PM
Oh the humanity!

SicEmBaylor
12/27/2010, 06:18 PM
Maybe you could get them to just send you a degree in the mail? Are you finished yet? I think it sounds like they owe you one. Call em on the debt. :D

Heh, one of the two at Tech tells me all the time that he might as well have got his degree from one of those mail-in colleges...it'd be worth about the same.

Boarder
12/27/2010, 07:05 PM
Savage is insane. I went to one day of his class and then had the foresight to drop immediately. He spent the class telling us about how the real reason people came to the USA is that they were told the Indian girls loved europeans and put out. He seemed to be trying to intimidate everyone and didn't like it too much when I was chuckling.

He's just a sad old man who wants everyone to be scared of him. I'm sure that 99% are. He does have a deep hatred of GW Bush.

StoopTroup
12/27/2010, 07:13 PM
Savage is insane. I went to one day of his class and then had the foresight to drop immediately. He spent the class telling us about how the real reason people came to the USA is that they were told the Indian girls loved europeans and put out. He seemed to be trying to intimidate everyone and didn't like it too much when I was chuckling.

He's just a sad old man who wants everyone to be scared of him. I'm sure that 99% are. He does have a deep hatred of GW Bush.

Sounds like a bunch of us should get back into school and audit his classes and just sit in there and drive him crazy. To bad Leroid lives in AZ we could just send him. 15 minutes of that and he'd retire.

yankee
12/27/2010, 07:29 PM
Professor sounds like a total, stuck up, doosh bag. Seriously, I don't get why some professors take joy in making kids miserable. I have NO problem with challenging classes, but there is no excuse for purposely trying to fail your class. How many of those reviews stated that his exams covered nothing from his lectures? What a POS.



Oh, and teachers who teach with Powerpoint can DIAF. So basically every one of my professors. And someone made a comment earlier about how they hate profs who use PP and also take attendance. And it's especially maddening when they later post those same freaking slides on D2L. Complete joke.

Can you tell I had a frustrating semester academically?

Rant over.

:mad:

waynepayne
12/27/2010, 07:41 PM
Professor sounds like a total, stuck up, doosh bag. Seriously, I don't get why some professors take joy in making kids miserable. I have NO problem with challenging classes, but there is no excuse for purposely trying to fail your class. How many of those reviews stated that his exams covered nothing from his lectures? What a POS.



Oh, and teachers who teach with Powerpoint can DIAF. So basically every one of my professors. And someone made a comment earlier about how they hate profs who use PP and also take attendance. And it's especially maddening when they later post those same freaking slides on D2L. Complete joke.

Can you tell I had a frustrating semester academically?

Rant over.

:mad:

taht was me and yes those slides are always on D2L so why the freak do I need to go have you read them to me? Let me know when the quizzes are and I'll see ya.


Best class I have had at OU thus far was a grad student. He never ONCE lectured off a PP nor did the class require a textbook. He took the time to get all these articles together for us and put them on D2L and then we would come to class and discuss them. LOTS of discussion and I never missed one lecture.

silverwheels
12/27/2010, 07:43 PM
PowerPoint is awesome.








Not really.

I Am Right
12/27/2010, 07:55 PM
Dr No

Howzit
12/27/2010, 07:57 PM
Is he the guy who would give students five minutes to ask questions at the end of class, and if he didn't like the question he'd say "too trivial, too trivial" and go to the next question. There were days when every single question was "too trivial". I went to his office to ask a question, he said "did you read the book?" I said yes. He said, "did you speak to the TA?" I said yes, but I still didn't understand. He then said, "well, read the book again, and if you still don't understand it talk to a TA". He put his headphones on and spun around in his chair.

He got me out of the EE program in a hurry.

Did he have a little goatee and look like Satan?

This guy would ride his 1960's vintage bicycle all over campus, and if you didn't get out of his way that was your problem.

My dad is an EE and actually went to school with him. He said he wasn't a particularly brilliant student, but was really strange.

I heard that the university knew what a horrible prof he was, but he brought in some pretty good research bucks. No idea if that's truth or a student urban myth.

SanJoaquinSooner
12/27/2010, 08:58 PM
I don't know what the precise ratio is, but it sounds like he's about 1/3 on target and 2/3 nightmare.

He's has some good points about technology - so many solutions looking for a problem. What I've seen in accreditation in education often has it backwards: technology should be a tool to serve the content, but all too often the standard to meet seems to be "how can the content serve technology?" That's why you end up with powerpoint presentations that inhibit rather than facilitate learning.

On the other hand, his point about going to the library and digging falls short with so many academic journals and resources available on-line only. Maybe Oklahoma History research is an exception, I don't know. But I have no doubt that having no e-mail is a handicap in academic life.

So how does that e-mail alarm work, that he was talking about? That would be great for professors to send to students who have early a.m. classes.

SanJoaquinSooner
12/27/2010, 09:02 PM
Also there's a difference between challenging students and belittling them in class. No excuse for that.

Leroy Lizard
12/27/2010, 09:21 PM
Sounds like a bunch of us should get back into school and audit his classes and just sit in there and drive him crazy. To bad Leroid lives in AZ we could just send him. 15 minutes of that and he'd retire.

Tried already. Didn't work. The dude is tough.

A Sooner in Texas
12/27/2010, 09:21 PM
Some profs are fine examples of that old saying, "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach."

Leroy Lizard
12/27/2010, 09:27 PM
I don't know what the precise ratio is, but it sounds like he's about 1/3 on target and 2/3 nightmare.

He's has some good points about technology - so many solutions looking for a problem. What I've seen in accreditation in education often has it backwards: technology should be a tool to serve the content, but all too often the standard to meet seems to be "how can the content serve technology?" That's why you end up with powerpoint presentations that inhibit rather than facilitate learning.

On the other hand, his point about going to the library and digging falls short with so many academic journals and resources available on-line only. Maybe Oklahoma History research is an exception, I don't know. But I have no doubt that having no e-mail is a handicap in academic life.

So how does that e-mail alarm work, that he was talking about? That would be great for professors to send to students who have early a.m. classes.

It's not the PowerPoint; it's what the teacher does during the presentation. Does he ask questions? Are they good questions? Does he have students discuss answers among themselves? Does he make students think?

I have seen some great PP lectures, but usually teachers lean on them as a crutch. That's too bad.

SicEmBaylor
12/27/2010, 11:39 PM
The history department's faculty at Baylor is absolutely fantastic. Admittedly, the poli-sci department is so-so. Almost everyone uses power point, but Baylor professors are pretty big on the socratic method of teaching which I appreciate a great deal. Very few that I've encountered strictly teach the PP.

There is one history professor in particular who is certainly no luddite, but he doesn't use PP. I absolutely adore this guy -- I don't know what he gets paid but it isn't nearly enough. He's an old school professor (though he himself is only in his mid 40's or so) with the tweed jacket, precise speech, and an Anglophile with a deep love for the British Empire and a distaste for, as he says, "anything French."

I've been lucky enough to have 3 different classes with this guy and he simply walks in, pulls a chair up to the front of the class, sits down, crosses his legs, and simply lectures without any notes or PP for the full class period stopping only to ask the random student to analyze a particular event or person...for example why do we think historical figure X decided on historical event Y and what was the result and what might have he/she done differently. Those sorts of questions.

Those classes truly made you feel like your money for college was well spent.

Leroy Lizard
12/28/2010, 01:53 AM
Some profs are fine examples of that old saying, "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach."

Profs have a different view: The rat race is the consolation prize for those who didn't have the sharps to earn a cushy job as a professor.


:D

GKeeper316
12/28/2010, 02:46 AM
dont know about worst, but the best i ever had was a dude visiting from the american university of jerusalem teaching a culters of the middle east class. i got an A in the class and i didn't even try very hard. best thing about the class was that it was right across the street from louie's on campus corner, so i could walk out of class and have a beer in my hand 5 minutes later.

oudavid1
12/28/2010, 05:19 AM
After all my experiences with teachers (2 of which ended up fired), i really am considering wanting a piece of this guy. When it comes down to it, i like to rattle cages and i have never been intimidated but a teacher/professor. I would go into that class not giving two Sh**s about my grade and just try and learn and relate. but i cant stand when students get yelled at and dont express there feelings. Something you cant do on SoonerFans but i have never had a problem doing it in a classroom.

My opinions on teachers/professors aren't normally kind. But i do my best to be reasonable. If they man wanted to fail me, i would get all i could out of him.

OutlandTrophy
12/28/2010, 08:37 AM
you hated your spelling teacher, didn't you?

Boomer_Sooner_sax
12/28/2010, 09:39 AM
Savage is insane. I went to one day of his class and then had the foresight to drop immediately. He spent the class telling us about how the real reason people came to the USA is that they were told the Indian girls loved europeans and put out. He seemed to be trying to intimidate everyone and didn't like it too much when I was chuckling.

He's just a sad old man who wants everyone to be scared of him. I'm sure that 99% are. He does have a deep hatred of GW Bush.

I bet he hates Al Gore for inventing the innerwebs!

texaspokieokie
12/28/2010, 09:44 AM
and also english. maybe just not an expert typist.

SpankyNek
12/28/2010, 09:46 AM
The best Professor I ever had at OU was Dr. Tom Boyd. He was one of the Philosophy chairs. I took his Philosophy of Eastern Religion course, and even though I didn't need it for my major, took a Western course for good measure.

He is the guy that used to do the pre-game prayer at football games (Maybe he still does?)

I was fascinated in his class by the level of discussion, he also brought in excellent guest lecturers from time to time.

SoonerLVZ
12/28/2010, 09:50 AM
I took an Oklahoma History class from OU and Savage was the professor. He passed out the syllabus, looked over the class of 100 and said the class was too big then gave a lecture, the next class he came in and said that there was a test over the first day's lecture. Third class he came in, passed out the results of the test, everyone had an F, and gave a lecture. Fourth class only 25 showed back up, everyone else had dropped. He said "thanks for staying, you are the ones that read the syllabus that says the only tests are the ones listed here, now lets really get started." (first "test" wasn't on it). The whole bad *** thing is just an act. He's a smart ***, but if you are a smart *** back then he won't really mess with you. He actually was one on the LEAST political professors I had. Ended up with an A in the class. And the whole "you'll be lucky if you get a D" thing is something he created to keep class sizes down.

badger
12/28/2010, 10:21 AM
I've heard of teachers that do stuff like that, but never actually experienced one.

If you ever try to get an internship or job with an alum of the school, these are the classes you specifically mention that you took if you did well in them.

Frozen Sooner
12/28/2010, 10:22 AM
The best Professor I ever had at OU was Dr. Tom Boyd. He was one of the Philosophy chairs. I took his Philosophy of Eastern Religion course, and even though I didn't need it for my major, took a Western course for good measure.

He is the guy that used to do the pre-game prayer at football games (Maybe he still does?)

I was fascinated in his class by the level of discussion, he also brought in excellent guest lecturers from time to time.

I had him for Philosophy of Western Religion in like 1994. Great class.

Leroy Lizard
12/28/2010, 11:25 AM
And the whole "you'll be lucky if you get a D" thing is something he created to keep his class sizes down.

FIFY

There is one thing to remember: He didn't keep class sizes down; he just dumped his students into some other professor's class. This lightens his own load at the expense of his colleague's. Busch league.

Frozen Sooner
12/28/2010, 11:49 AM
That's one thing I kind of like about strict curves: that kind of BS doesn't go on. There's definitely things I don't like about curves, especially with smaller classes, but it's nice to know that no matter how "tough" your professor is, he's going to give roughly the same grade distribution as the "easy" professor.

Always made me laugh a little last year when I'd say I had Judge Colquitt for Crim Law and people would say "Oh, may, I hear he's tough." When a class is curved, you're not trying to beat the professor, you're trying to beat everyone else in the class.

Boarder
12/28/2010, 12:07 PM
I think the Boyds are in the religious studies dept now. I have never heard a bad word about either of them.

My favorite professor has been Cowan in astronomy. It was a great class and he made it very interesting and fun.

soonerbrat
12/28/2010, 12:38 PM
do you guys remember a professor there that was stabbed to death by her son? that was my analytical geometry teacher.

i know it's off topic but I just thought about it.

Sooner04
12/28/2010, 02:30 PM
I had Savage's "History of Oklahoma" class in the spring of 2003. Fantastic class. I'd heard so many horror stories about him but the lectures were so good I decided to stick it out. Glad I did. Amazing stuff. His only notes were in a white binder with the outline for lectures he'd probably given a thousand times white at OU.

If you asked a good, well-thought out question you would receive an answer of the same type. If you asked a poor question, one that was answered mere moments ago, well, good luck to you. You just had to listen. Everything you would need was in the lecture.

I still remember the grades I made on my first two tests: C+ and a D--. I'll never know what I made on my final, but it must've been pretty solid because I ended up with a B. I'm more proud of that "B" than any "A" I ever earned at the University of Oklahoma.

Oh, and his rant on Rodgers and Hammerstein was one of the funniest things I've ever seen in my life.

StoopTroup
12/28/2010, 03:49 PM
Teachers Pet

http://blog.studentloannetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/zrclip-011nda5755f.png

Leroy Lizard
12/28/2010, 03:57 PM
That's one thing I kind of like about strict curves: that kind of BS doesn't go on. There's definitely things I don't like about curves, especially with smaller classes, but it's nice to know that no matter how "tough" your professor is, he's going to give roughly the same grade distribution as the "easy" professor.

I'll go along with that, but I feel that grading on a curve is a crutch favored by unmotivated teachers. Having faculty grade on a curve certainly hasn't lightened the complaint load.


Always made me laugh a little last year when I'd say I had Judge Colquitt for Crim Law and people would say "Oh, may, I hear he's tough." When a class is curved, you're not trying to beat the professor, you're trying to beat everyone else in the class.

True, but he could be assigning 60 hours per week of homework; outperforming your fellow students comes down to a war of attrition. By grading on a curve a prof can easily swamp students' abilities to keep up with the coursework. (This is a big problem with online courses.)

SunnySooner
12/28/2010, 04:20 PM
I would say Prof. William Clark was among the best instructors I had at OU. I had him for Macro-Econ, a huge class, and then Honors Micro-Econ, with only 10 or 15 of us. Both times, he was great--very knowledgeable and interesting to listen to. He really knows his ****.

madmartigan
12/28/2010, 05:05 PM
i had savage for a westward expansion history class in '09. i have a minor in history, so i really enjoyed the subject matter of the class, but savage was horrible. i can recall two or three classes where he threw fits because his questions weren't answered correctly or because someone's phone rang and he canceled class right then and there after a lecture about how "stupid our generation is". this class was based off of only two tests, and our first test scores were an a, a b, a d and the rest of the class failed. i worked my *** off and was pleased with a c for my final grade.
he told us a story once about how he lived in texas and was out drinking at some bar and ended up talking to (pre governor) gw bush and how stupid and incompetent the man was and how it was a wonder the man could even form sentences. i am not a political person at all, but savage had that attitude with everyone/everything. and after he told us his drinking with gw bush story, he made it clear that he can talk all the trash he wants to on bush because he actually met him and talked to him.

anyone take any african history classes with jid kamoche? when i read the title of this thread, savage and kamoche both flashed in my mind.

Sooner04
12/28/2010, 05:20 PM
anyone take any african history classes with jid kamoche? when i read the title of this thread, savage and kamoche both flashed in my mind.
I took Kamoche in 2003, about three hours before Savage, on Tuesdays and Thursdays. That was a ROUGH semester. But I made a "B" in his class too. Had both their classes in the GLC. That building is still like a chamber of horrors to me. [shudder]

I've never seen a professor write out ALL the publishing info of a book, but Kamoche did it on the blackboard. REPEATEDLY. I can still hear him saying, "Philip Curtin and Paul Bohannon........"

OhU1
12/28/2010, 05:31 PM
My favorite professor has been Cowan in astronomy. It was a great class and he made it very interesting and fun.

I had Cowen 28 years ago :eek: as a freshman in 1982! I liked him too and glad to see he's still with OU after all these years.

SanJoaquinSooner
12/28/2010, 05:49 PM
Some profs are fine examples of that old saying, "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach."

For Savage, it sounds like he's definitely a doer, as he has published several books and numerous journal articles - which is what historians do - and a rather unorthodox teacher; many say a terrible one and a few say a great one.

Goes to show there isn't a clearly defined set of "best practices" for teaching. One student's queen is another student's sweat hog.

In mathematics a few professors use some variation of "The Moore Method," in which the instructors don't tell student how to do anything - they just give them problems to solve and maybe a few basic definitions and axioms. The students present their solutions in class while the instructor critiques the mathematical arguments presented.

For many students, they find this method quite stressful and unrewarding. They desire to be shown how to do problems "step-by-step." Others find the experience transcending, as they become mathematicians in the true sense of the word. One can learn a great deal from "great lectures" but at some point one must make the content his/her own.

But to me, what is great about university life for students, is the opportunity to encounter a variety of professors. Any pair may be quite different from each other, but both having something invaluable to offer.

sooner59
12/28/2010, 08:37 PM
Peter Barker in the History of Science department was possibly the best prof I had. I ended up minoring in HSCI because of him.

Leroy Lizard
12/28/2010, 09:26 PM
In mathematics a few professors use some variation of "The Moore Method," in which the instructors don't tell student how to do anything - they just give them problems to solve and maybe a few basic definitions and axioms. The students present their solutions in class while the instructor critiques the mathematical arguments presented.

Not a fan. To me, that is what independent study is for.

S.PadreIsl.Sooner
12/28/2010, 09:29 PM
I took Doc Savage twice. The 2nd time was Oklahoma History. And yes, it was hard.

However, this is a college class, right? Not some high school class taught by someone named "Coach". Right?

StoopTroup
12/28/2010, 09:34 PM
Not a fan. To me, that is what independent study is for.

In life...this is what will be required of you unless you decide to teach. I'm not surprised your against a teaching tactic that would produce good employees and bosses.

Boarder
12/28/2010, 09:35 PM
I wasn't so much worried about making a grade in his class (it was History of the West, or something like that). I didn't want to have to learn his whacked out theories. I can only imagine his view of Oklahoma history. He may be right but I'm leaning heavily toward the full of crap/nut case side. I can handle eccentric if there seems to be some coherence.

He told the exact same drinking with Bush story. Hehe.

StoopTroup
12/28/2010, 09:37 PM
Hey John! What the hell are we going to do? The pin won't go into the crane attachment and we're paying $48,000 per hour for this crane! I don't know Tim....why don't everyone just take it easy and you can go Home and figure it out. Let me know when you have a solution in a couple of days and we'll look it over.

Leroy Lizard
12/28/2010, 09:43 PM
In life...this is what will be required of you unless you decide to teach. I'm not surprised your against a teaching tactic that would produce good employees and bosses.

Profs publish papers and so this type of self-reliance is needed even more in academia.

I think that students should take independent study, which is specifically designed for this purpose. (Well, that and to allow students to study topics that are not in the course calendar.)

My problem is that it's just a lazy way to teach. Here's a problem; go figure it out.

Some of the profs do it for select courses that fit this model, which I think is fine. It's no big deal either way, but I'm just not a fan of it.

StoopTroup
12/28/2010, 09:47 PM
Profs publish papers and so this type of self-reliance is needed even more in academia.

I think that students should take independent study, which is specifically designed for this purpose. (Well, that and to allow students to study topics that are not in the course calendar.)

My problem is that it's just a lazy way to teach. Here's a problem; go figure it out.

Some of the profs do it for select courses that fit this model, which I think is fine. It's no big deal either way, but I'm just not a fan of it.

I'll take a guy quick on his feet over a guy that can figure it out in a few days every time when it comes to math. Now....if I'm in need of some sort of research to get funding or stop a bunch of folks from stopping progress because of an endangered species...I'll be glad to hire and put them to work for results. In this World...results is what matters. I could care less if you had a high GPA.

Leroy Lizard
12/28/2010, 09:49 PM
Hey John! What the hell are we going to do? The pin won't go into the crane attachment and we're paying $48,000 per hour for this crane! I don't know Tim....why don't everyone just take it easy and you can go Home and figure it out. Let me know when you have a solution in a couple of days and we'll look it over.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not sure your example made your point.

Leroy Lizard
12/28/2010, 09:52 PM
I'll take a guy quick on his feet over a guy that can figure it out in a few days every time when it comes to math. Now....if I'm in need of some sort of research to get funding or stop a bunch of folks from stopping progress because of an endangered species...I'll be glad to hire and put them to work for results. In this World...results is what matters. I could care less if you had a high GPA.

I don't see how GPA figured into this conversation. And I also don't understand how the speed of the solution works here. The Moore Method isn't based on finding quick solutions.

So I guess you got me confused.

A Sooner in Texas
12/28/2010, 10:09 PM
Profs have a different view: The rat race is the consolation prize for those who didn't have the sharps to earn a cushy job as a professor.


:D

I guess I just prefer being one of those who can, and do.
(and I really don't mind that my job isn't "cushy." I've seen too many idiots who somehow end up in those type of jobs.)


:D

Petro-Sooner
12/28/2010, 10:17 PM
Academia types. Now thats a funny bunch........

How about the "professors" just teach the damn subject and not get all high and mighty. I was one that wasnt very good at calc or chem. Took at calc class one summer with a TA that actually cared and made the class meaningful and I ended up doing well. Who knew I could actually get calculas..... Its about teaching! Not some book youve published.

reevie
12/28/2010, 10:44 PM
I got an A in Savage's OK History class back in 92. But I also give credit for taking Goble's History of OK Politics the same semester.

StoopTroup
12/28/2010, 10:56 PM
I don't see how GPA figured into this conversation. And I also don't understand how the speed of the solution works here. The Moore Method isn't based on finding quick solutions.

So I guess you got me confused.

I'm using logic I guess you aren't.

Leroy Lizard
12/28/2010, 11:04 PM
I guess I just prefer being one of those who can, and do.
(and I really don't mind that my job isn't "cushy." I've seen too many idiots who somehow end up in those type of jobs.)


:D

Let's see... I'm surrounded by hawt coeds all day. I can't be fired. I get paid really well. My benefits are great...

Oh yeah, I really want to join the rat race. I am sooooo jealous. :D


How about the "professors" just teach the damn subject and not get all high and mighty. I was one that wasnt very good at calc or chem. Took at calc class one summer with a TA that actually cared and made the class meaningful and I ended up doing well. Who knew I could actually get calculas..... Its about teaching! Not some book youve published.

Publishing is important. Unfortunately, our priorities have been bent out of whack at the expense of teaching. So I hear ya'.


I'm using logic I guess you aren't.

Sorry that I asked.

A Sooner in Texas
12/29/2010, 12:53 AM
Let's see... I'm surrounded by hawt coeds all day. I can't be fired. I get paid really well. My benefits are great...

Oh yeah, I really want to join the rat race. I am sooooo jealous.


Since I'm a chick, being surrounded by "hawt coeds" does nothing for me. I prefer being surrounded by the hot attorneys I deal with on a daily basis. My pay is plenty, and so are my benefits. I live a comfortable life, and my job is never boring. It can be stressful, but I tend to thrive on that, for some weird reason. I've always worked best under pressure.
And a lot of people consider teaching just as much a part of the rat race as any other job. I know I would, and I know I'm not sooooo jealous of you. :D

Leroy Lizard
12/29/2010, 12:55 AM
Since I'm a chick, being surrounded by "hawt coeds" does nothing for me. I prefer being surrounded by the hot attorneys I deal with on a daily basis.

Being surrounded by attorneys... eeeewwww!!!!


:D

A Sooner in Texas
12/29/2010, 12:57 AM
Being surrounded by attorneys... eeeewwww!!!!


:D


Well, they're prosecutors - you know, the good guys - so that adds to the hotness. :D

sperry
12/29/2010, 02:07 AM
Savage is a real piece of trash. I know for a fact he would have been fired long ago if it weren't for tenure, he would have been fired long ago. He's just a legitimately bad person, treats his students and colleagues horribly, grades his classes in an arbitrary and unfair manner to the students, and overall is just an embarassment to the university. If they could get rid of him, they would.

Leroy Lizard
12/29/2010, 03:18 AM
Well, they're prosecutors - you know, the good guys - so that adds to the hotness. :D

They're Texas lawyers. That's even worse!

Boomer_Sooner_sax
12/29/2010, 12:08 PM
I tell you as well that Josh Wurman was no picnic in Intro to Meteorology. Even our GA didn't know what he was talking about.

badger
12/29/2010, 12:08 PM
I think the Boyds are in the religious studies dept now. I have never heard a bad word about either of them.

The only bad word I would say about wife Boyd is that in her intro class, she was talking down to everyone to the point that I despised going to listen to her. Ever read Harry Potter? Think Umbridge, except without the pen torture. It was toward the beginning of the Religious Studies program start, so perhaps the class has changed since.

GDC
12/29/2010, 01:46 PM
I liked every professor I ever had at OU.

Frozen Sooner
12/29/2010, 02:27 PM
I'll go along with that, but I feel that grading on a curve is a crutch favored by unmotivated teachers. Having faculty grade on a curve certainly hasn't lightened the complaint load.



True, but he could be assigning 60 hours per week of homework; outperforming your fellow students comes down to a war of attrition. By grading on a curve a prof can easily swamp students' abilities to keep up with the coursework. (This is a big problem with online courses.)

Like I said, I have problems with curve grading.

Most of the professors I've heard talk about it don't like the curve because they think if someone performs at an A level, they should get an A, regardless if there's six other people in the class that also perform at an A level.

On the other hand, when you're talking about something as regimented as first year law school classes, where your class ranking after that first year is about 90% determinative of where you'll have your first job after graduation, then there has to be some normalization across professors and classes.

For what it's worth, the only professor I've heard speak favorably about the mandatory curve is a guy who claims that his torts exams are harder than the bar and that the highest grade he's ever given was a 59%.

JohnnyMack
12/29/2010, 02:32 PM
I tell you as well that Josh Wurman was no picnic in Intro to Meteorology. Even our GA didn't know what he was talking about.

I took meteorology for non-majors from Jerry Straka. That class was awesome!

SoonerAtKU
12/29/2010, 02:36 PM
Peter Barker in the History of Science department was possibly the best prof I had. I ended up minoring in HSCI because of him.

I'd like to echo this point here. He may or may not have been the best, but he was in the top 3 that I have ever had the pleasure of hearing.

SoonerAtKU
12/29/2010, 02:39 PM
Also David Ray in the Political Science dept.

Frozen Sooner
12/29/2010, 02:40 PM
I was a fan of Shaun Ledgerwood in the Econ department. I guess he's teaching at Georgetown now.

Frozen Sooner
12/29/2010, 02:41 PM
Hey John! What the hell are we going to do? The pin won't go into the crane attachment and we're paying $48,000 per hour for this crane! I don't know Tim....why don't everyone just take it easy and you can go Home and figure it out. Let me know when you have a solution in a couple of days and we'll look it over.


Also David Ray in the Political Science dept.

Wasn't he visiting from Georgia Tech? I think I had him in '92.

badger
12/29/2010, 02:42 PM
I took London's geology class for non-majors because all of the non-major meteorology classes were full. Found out the week of the final that all of his tests were the same every semester and I should have studied old exam copies instead of the textbook. Raaaaaaaagggggggeeee

(btw, I love this thread. brings back fond memories of college. keep the stories coming)

SoonerAtKU
12/29/2010, 02:45 PM
Wasn't he visiting from Georgia Tech? I think I had him in '92.

He was still there at least into '98 or '99. I had him for Freshman Honors Poli Sci in '96, then I took an awesome summer semester course from him called The CIA and Congress. One of the best electives I had.

Frozen Sooner
12/29/2010, 02:47 PM
Yeah, same guy I think. I had him for honors poli sci as well. He was always so disappointed in me for constantly skipping class.

badger
12/29/2010, 02:48 PM
If any of you ever decide to minor in JMC or just need an upper division elective, get into the Intro to Public Relations class with the guy who just walks around the room with his hands in his pockets the entire time (last name starts with Mc). Group quizzes, where someone in the group had every answer to every quiz (usually a greek) and the tests were insanely easy multiple choice. You had to TRY to not get an A in that class... and yes, you had to show up for the group quizzes to get credit.

yermom
12/29/2010, 02:50 PM
i took David Ray's intro class in 2005

other than purposely putting stuff on the test directly from the book and not mentioning it in class, it was a great class :D

SoonerAtKU
12/29/2010, 02:50 PM
Yeah, same guy I think. I had him for honors poli sci as well. He was always so disappointed in me for constantly skipping class.

Contrast that with my first semester English class, where the professor forgot she had a class the first day and never showed up. To a 7:30 class in the english building all the way across campus.

I turned in 3 of the 5 graded assignments for that class and still got an A somehow. I should have failed that one by default.

badger
12/29/2010, 02:52 PM
Did any of you take David Boren's poli sci class? I never did, but Boren absolutely gushes about the fact that he teaches a class and loves teaching his class.

Frozen Sooner
12/29/2010, 02:53 PM
i took David Ray's intro class in 2005

other than purposely putting stuff on the test directly from the book and not mentioning it in class, it was a great class :D

That threw me a bit, except I almost never went to class, so it worked to my advantage. :D

Law professors do that a lot. Like they'll take part of the fact pattern for the exam from a case that was only a note to a main case that we never discussed in class. If you did the reading and remembered that note case, you were in luck.

yermom
12/29/2010, 02:53 PM
Did any of you take David Boren's poli sci class? I never did, but Boren absolutely gushes about the fact that he teaches a class and loves teaching his class.

i always heard he was barely there and TAs taught it most of the time

yermom
12/29/2010, 02:55 PM
That threw me a bit, except I almost never went to class, so it worked to my advantage. :D

Law professors do that a lot. Like they'll take part of the fact pattern for the exam from a case that was only a note to a main case that we never discussed in class. If you did the reading and remembered that note case, you were in luck.

well, now i probably would have at least read half of the time and gotten an A, but i didn't and got a B

he was great at lecturing though.

yankee
12/30/2010, 01:01 AM
the best professor I've had at OU is probably Wayne Thomas for Financial Accounting. Absolutely hated the class, and it took a good grade on my final exam to get a 'C' in the class. Never thought I'd hate a class but love a professor. Also the only class that powerpoint has actually been used in a somewhat positive and effective manner. Great man, great teacher. He wanted us to all do well. It's just a hard class.

Leroy Lizard
12/30/2010, 05:22 AM
Also David Ray in the Political Science dept.

At this point, I'm not sure we are referring to good profs or bad profs.

Leroy Lizard
12/30/2010, 05:23 AM
If any of you ever decide to minor in JMC or just need an upper division elective, get into the Intro to Public Relations class with the guy who just walks around the room with his hands in his pockets the entire time (last name starts with Mc). Group quizzes, where someone in the group had every answer to every quiz (usually a greek) and the tests were insanely easy multiple choice. You had to TRY to not get an A in that class... and yes, you had to show up for the group quizzes to get credit.

Gee, I would... kinda... like to learn something when I take a class. :rolleyes: