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Okla-homey
12/22/2010, 05:36 PM
is on the verge of resolving "Swing Low Sweet Chariot" is our State Gospel Song. srsly.

Now, I'm not sure the Okie legislature has any business declaring a "State Gospel Song", but if the feel they must, then why not "Wherever He Leads I'll Go"?

That gospel song was written in 1936 by B.B. McKinney at Falls Creek (near Davis, OK) and millions of Okies who have gone to Falls Creek have sung it.



Wherever He Leads I'll Go
FALLS CREEK
B.B. McKinney, 1936

Take up thy cross and follow Me," I heard my Master say;
"I gave My life to ransom thee, Surrender your all today."
Wherever He leads I'll go, Wherever He leads I'll go,
I'll follow my Christ who loves me so, Wherever He leads I'll go.

He drew me closer to His side, I sought His weill to konw,
And in that will I now abide, Whever He leads I'll go.
Wherever He leads I'll go, Wherever He leads I'll go,
I'll follow my Christ who loves me so, Wherever He leads I'll go.

It may be thro' the shadows dim, Or o'er the sotormy sea,
I take my cross and follow Him, Wherever He leadeth me.
Wherever He leads I'll go, Wherever He leads I'll go,
I'll follow my Christ who loves me so, Wherever He leads I'll go.

My heart, my life, my all I bring To Christ who loves me so;
he is my Master, Lord, and King, Wherever He leads I'll go.
Wherever He leads I'll go, Wherever He leads I'll go,
I'll follow my Christ who loves me so, Wherever He leads I'll go.

StoopTroup
12/22/2010, 05:39 PM
As long as it doesn't fall under Sharia Law....I'm good with it.

rekamrettuB
12/22/2010, 05:41 PM
Church and State?

Okla-homey
12/22/2010, 05:43 PM
Church and State?

ya think?

I'm telling you, these guys and gals on Lincoln Boulevard scare me. And I'm not easily scared.

Okla-homey
12/22/2010, 05:44 PM
As long as it doesn't fall under Sharia Law....I'm good with it.

Don't worry, there will be no "State Muslim Song."

Leroy Lizard
12/22/2010, 05:59 PM
So which song do we nominate for State Goth-Metal Song?

badger
12/22/2010, 06:02 PM
Any state that can change a fruit like a watermelon into a veggie can turn a gospel song into something that doesn't have to be church-and-state together.

To hell with the ACLU - make it happen, legislature!

JohnnyMack
12/22/2010, 06:03 PM
We have the most worthless legislature in these here 50 states.

AlboSooner
12/22/2010, 06:08 PM
Why not, if we are the body by casting crowns?

Boarder
12/22/2010, 06:10 PM
ya think?

I'm telling you, these guys and gals on Lincoln Boulevard scare me. And I'm not easily scared.
Why is there no legislator who can stand up and point this out? Seriously, do legislators have to take an 1113 govt class? At least Henry would veto crap like this. Hopefully Fallin will, too.

Okla-homey
12/22/2010, 06:16 PM
At least Henry would veto crap like this. Hopefully Fallin will, too.

I wouldn't count on it. Its single party rule now folks. Our only hope is the Oklahoma Supreme Court to stop the worst of the crapola that'll be generated on Lincoln Boulevard in the coming years.

47straight
12/22/2010, 06:20 PM
If you're taking the day off on Dec. 25, or heck, any given Sunday, I really don't care to hear your church-state complaints.

Frozen Sooner
12/22/2010, 06:22 PM
Meh. That's a pretty tepid endorsement of religion, if it is one.

AlboSooner
12/22/2010, 06:29 PM
If you're taking the day off on Dec. 25, or heck, any given Sunday, I really don't care to hear your church-state complaints.

Apples and oranges my friend.

Leroy Lizard
12/22/2010, 07:41 PM
My feeling is that they know this will be shot down by the state supreme court, which just strengthens their "us against the world" stance.

If I was a state senator, I would just simply tell the public the following:

"Look, I have two reasons for voting this down. First of all, passing legislation that we know will get overruled by the courts is a waste of time and makes it look like we can't gauge the constitutionality of laws before we pass them. I'm a state senator; I want my voting record to reflect that I know the laws in this state and that I can separate big potatoes (things that really affect us) from little potatoes (things that just make us feel smug).

Second of all, even if this legislation had a prayer of passing constitutional muster I would still vote it down because I hate that ****ing song. I truly do. As a state senator I cannot with good conscience inflict such a dreadful piece of **** on our citizens."

Boarder
12/22/2010, 07:44 PM
Well, yeah, there's the fact that there are much better gospel songs, too.

47straight
12/22/2010, 08:14 PM
Apples and oranges my friend.

Both fruits banned by perfect and eternal wall of the separation of church and state.

Now give me my mail on Christmas Day, you theocrats!

OhU1
12/22/2010, 11:15 PM
47 Straight I will take a paid day off for Jerry Falwell's birthday if they pay me for it.

State gospel song. WTF? And IF you feel the need to declare an official state gospel song why pick something that sounds like something that would be sung at a minstrel show?

I was afraid this was the kind of fluff that our "conservative" legislature would give us. They are just proving to me that they are not mature enough to lead and lack the substance to deal with the real world issues of governance. I am feeling more and more like a sucker to vote and campaign for this party of clowns.

SoonerStormchaser
12/23/2010, 01:27 AM
I don't know "Swing Low, Sweet Chariot," but I do know "The Camptown Ladies."

oklaclarinet
12/23/2010, 02:00 AM
You'd think if they were going to name a state gospel song, it would at least be one with Oklahoma ties. I would suggest a song by Albert E. Brumley, who was born near Rock Island (NE part of LeFlore County). His most famous song is perhaps one of the most famous gospel songs ever written ... "I'll Fly Away."

oklaclarinet
12/23/2010, 02:03 AM
Well, apparently "Swing Low" was also written by an Okie, Wallis Willis, a Choctaw in old Indian Territory. So I guess it does have Oklahoma ties.

oklaclarinet
12/23/2010, 02:27 AM
is on the verge of resolving "Swing Low Sweet Chariot" is our State Gospel Song. srsly.

Now, I'm not sure the Okie legislature has any business declaring a "State Gospel Song", but if the feel they must, then why not "Wherever He Leads I'll Go"?

That gospel song was written in 1936 by B.B. McKinney at Falls Creek (near Davis, OK) and millions of Okies who have gone to Falls Creek have sung it.

Homey, I'm curious as to your citation that this song was written at Falls Creek. According to the writings of Billy Graham, McKinney wrote the hymn while in Clanton, Alabama.

Honestly I am not familiar with this hymn at all, and I know a lot of hymns. I would guess that this song is more familiar with the Baptists. So in that sense, "Swing Low, Sweet Chariot" or even "I'll Fly Away" would be more appropriate selections because they have transcended denominational boundaries and are more widely known to those who don't know a lot of church music. The 1909 Fisk Singers recording of "Swing Low" was even #35 on the Recording Industry of America and the National Endowment for the Arts list of Songs of the Century released in 2001.

stoops the eternal pimp
12/23/2010, 02:38 AM
I would vote for "The Devil's in a Phone Booth"(Yes, an actual song I heard in a church one time)...

MR2-Sooner86
12/23/2010, 03:46 AM
I was afraid this was the kind of fluff that our "conservative" legislature would give us. They are just proving to me that they are not mature enough to lead and lack the substance to deal with the real world issues of governance. I am feeling more and more like a sucker to vote and campaign for this party of clowns.

It has been the case for a while now. The Religious Right took over the what most consider "conservatism" and the Republican Party and now you have a bunch of Neo-Cons wanting smaller government unless you mess with Jesus, Israel (God's chosen people yo!), or Intelligent Design being taught in schools then there will be hell to pay.

As for the state gospel song, I vote "Running with the Devil."

Leroy Lizard
12/23/2010, 05:43 AM
I would vote for "The Devil's in a Phone Booth"(Yes, an actual song I heard in a church one time)...

That seals it. The official gospel song for the state of Oklahoma should be "Devil in my Car" by the B-52s. It can even be used by the Oklahoma Highway Patrol in its safety films.

Background vocals: "I can't put on my safety belt."

Voiceover: "He'd better put on his safety belt, because in Oklahoma all passengers are required to wear a safety belt or risk being fined."

Yeah, it could work.

texaspokieokie
12/23/2010, 08:50 AM
We have the most worthless legislature in these here 50 states.

how could you possibly know this ??

achiro
12/23/2010, 08:57 AM
ya think?

I'm telling you, these guys and gals on Lincoln Boulevard scare me. And I'm not easily scared.

To some extent this is what can happen with term limits. You get a bunch of folks who don't know what the hell they are doing down there making decisions.

Midtowner
12/23/2010, 09:02 AM
And how does one achieve standing to challenge this?

Frozen Sooner
12/23/2010, 10:15 AM
And how does one achieve standing to challenge this?

Short answer: since it'd be an Establishment Clause claim, you would have standing as a taxpayer.

Midtowner
12/23/2010, 10:55 AM
Short answer: since it'd be an Establishment Clause claim, you would have standing as a taxpayer.

But the taxpayer standing deals with concerns about how taxpayer funds are spent. Where would taxpayer funds be spent here? Keep in mind this is a resolution, binding on no one. It creates a certificate. Maybe a wikipedia entry. That's about it.

Ike
12/23/2010, 11:02 AM
Can the courts overturn a resolution, as thats what it sounds like this is?

Also, since we are in the nominating game here, I nominate "Plastic Jesus"

Also, I'm none too thrilled today with newly elected representative Josh Brecheen.

Frozen Sooner
12/23/2010, 11:04 AM
I didn't say that as to the merits it's a winner of a suit. I don't think it is. I do think it meets standing requirements simply because it's an act by a legislature that may violate the Establishment Clause. To meet the requirements of Article III standing all you need to do is allege an injury in fact to some common law, statutory, or constitutional right (no matter how small), show that your injury can be fairly traced to the conduct of the defendant, and show that the injury can be redressed by the relief requested (I know you're a lawyer, BTW, I'm just giving this thumbnail for non-lawyers/law students so they know what we're talking about.)

You're absolutely right: the taxpayer standing exception for Establishment Clause violations seems to be limited to exercises of authority under the Spending Clause, at least in recent decisions. But the only time I can think of that the federal courts have applied that limitations was when the Executive Branch donated some surplus office furniture to parochial schools. As a general rule (at least so far as I know, which hey, my knowledge is limited) once you allege that the legislature is spending money to establish a religion, you've got standing. In this case, were I plaintiff's counsel, I'd argue that the legislature diverted at least SOME resources to debate of this bill.

See, for example, the challenge to the national day of prayer that's currently on appeal from one of the DCs in Wisconsin. That didn't really involve any expenditures either.

By the way, does Oklahoma have different requirements for standing? I know that some states are more expansive than Article III.

TUSooner
12/23/2010, 11:18 AM
This thread reminds of this I saw at jazzjest last year:

CWlqpowKkBY

Frozen Sooner
12/23/2010, 11:19 AM
Is he playing with Chris Thile and the Punch Brothers there? Went to go see them in Birmingham several weeks back. Those guys are unbelievable.

Midtowner
12/23/2010, 11:32 AM
Let's say it's Article III. Where is the injury-in-fact? The folks in the Okie legislature seem keenly aware of the standing aspect of establishment clause litigation. For example, the 10-Commandments statute which they voted a few years back to appear on the State Capitol lawn is entirely funded with private money. It's clearly a violation of the Establishment Clause, but we don't get to have that conversation until we can get standing.

Maybe the Okie legislature will force the courts' hand in carving out a broader taxpayer standing exception for establishment clause violations?

Frozen Sooner
12/23/2010, 11:42 AM
I think you're confusing standing with the merits on the 10 Commandments dealie. The Supremes faced a similar fact pattern in Van Orden v. Perry and didn't dismiss on standing, they just held that it wasn't an Establishment Clause violation. (The case is also interesting because I think it's the only time the Court has flat refused to apply Lemon analysis. IIRC, though, the coercion test only got four votes.)

The injury in fact is that the state legislature has used public resources to promote a religion. Under the Establishment Clause, that's enough to get you into court. Again, not going to the merits, which I think are weak.

Midtowner
12/23/2010, 11:52 AM
The merits aren't in question. Standing is.

TitoMorelli
12/23/2010, 11:53 AM
You'd think if they were going to name a state gospel song, it would at least be one with Oklahoma ties. I would suggest a song by Albert E. Brumley, who was born near Rock Island (NE part of LeFlore County). His most famous song is perhaps one of the most famous gospel songs ever written ... "I'll Fly Away."

For tornado alley wouldn't "I'll blow away" be more appropiate?

Frozen Sooner
12/23/2010, 11:59 AM
The merits aren't in question. Standing is.

:shrug: sez you.

okie52
12/23/2010, 12:05 PM
For tornado alley wouldn't "I'll blow away" be more appropiate?

How are you doing Tito?

TitoMorelli
12/23/2010, 12:08 PM
How are you doing Tito?

Hey there, okie - not bad for someone who's been "homeless" for the past month - more productive, at least.

A new courthouse has been completed and opened in Dewey County, btw. The land records area is a nice improvement over the dinosaur of a vault they'd had for umpteen years

okie52
12/23/2010, 12:25 PM
Hey there, okie - not bad for someone who's been "homeless" for the past month - more productive, at least.

A new courthouse has been completed and opened in Dewey County, btw. The land records area is a nice improvement over the dinosaur of a vault they'd had for umpteen years

Many of us have been "homeless" for the last month.

I didn't know you did land work. I haven't been to Dewey for a long time.

TUSooner
12/23/2010, 05:32 PM
Is he playing with Chris Thile and the Punch Brothers there? Went to go see them in Birmingham several weeks back. Those guys are unbelievable.

"Steep Canyon Rangers" they wuz called.