Fight Your Speeding Ticket With Simple Math

[sooner59]

I have no idea how well this would work in real life. What say you, lawyer-types?

http://blog.motorists.org/fight-your-speeding-ticket-with-simple-math/


Many speeding tickets are issued as the result of motorists being clocked with devices that measure how fast a vehicle covers a known distance.

Because some judges and district attorneys are not comfortable with mathematical calculations it is important for the well-prepared defendant to present mathematical based arguments in the simplest of terms. We will start from the end and work backwards.

A vehicle moving one mile per hour will cover 1.47 feet in one second.

If you wish to determine how far a vehicle will travel at a specific speed just multiply that speed by 1.47 feet. For example, if a vehicle is traveling 60 mph it will cover 88 feet in one second. Obviously, it will cover 176 feet in two seconds, etc.

If you are trying to determine how many seconds it would take a vehicle to cover a known distance at a specific speed just divide the distance by the speed and divide the result by 1.47 feet.

This will yield the number of seconds it would take the vehicle to cover a known distance at a known speed.

For example: A vehicle traveling 60 mph will cover 300 feet in 3.4 seconds—-300 divided by 60 divided by 1.47 = 3.4 seconds. If need be you can verify this calculation by multiplying 3.4 seconds times 88 feet (the distance traveled in one second at 60 mph) and the result brings you back to 300 feet.

If you are challenged on the validity of the 1.47 feet per second figure you can prove its validity in very simple terms.

1. There are 5280 feet in one mile so a vehicle traveling one mile per hour will cover 5280 feet.
2. There are 60 minutes in one hour so a vehicle traveling one mile per hour will travel 1/60th of that distance in one minute, or 88 feet.
3. There are 60 seconds in one minute so a vehicle traveling at one mile per hour will cover 1/60th of the distance it covered in one minute, or 1.47 feet.

You could also state that there are 3600 seconds in one hour and divide that number into 5280 feet and the result would be the same, 1.47 feet.

Once the court accepts and understands the source of these numbers you can apply them to your defense.

If you receive a VASCAR ticket you should obtain a description of the distance over which you were clocked, the time it took your vehicle to cover that distance and the speed you are charged with traveling.

If the citation or incident report claims you covered 300 feet in 4.2 seconds and you are being charged with speeding at 60 mph in a 50 mph zone you can readily verify the accuracy, or lack thereof in this case, of the speed you were claimed to be traveling.

At 60 mph you would have traveled 370 feet, not 300 feet. However, at 50 mph you would have traveled 309 feet in 4.2 seconds, indicating that you were driving within the speed limit.

Even if the calculations indicated the error was in the opposite direction, that your speed was underestimated, the speed-reading should not be allowed as evidence against you, thus eliminating the prosecutions principal evidence against you.

In other cases involving radar or pacing, time over distance calculations can prove serious inconsistencies in the officer’s testimony.

If the officer testifies that he clocked your vehicle for 5 seconds and you were going 80 mph, you can prove, by using time over distance calculations, that the officer could not have seen you for more than two seconds, because of a curve or sign, if you had been traveling 80 miles per hour.

[Leroy Lizard]

What if you are driving in SEC territory?

[sooner59]

What if you are driving in SEC territory?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_sjmxrHygBno/SKvwQxIaCuI/AAAAAAAABD4/B6fuXmJpAxQ/s400/HeadExplodeBig.gif

[StoopTroup]

I'm thinking about the time you start asking the cop a bunch of those questions you'll have a lot of checkbook type math to do.

[sooner59]

I'm thinking about the time you start asking the cop a bunch of those questions you'll have a lot of checkbook type math to do.

I think the idea is to actually take it to court and present this tactic. For people with spotless records, it would be just because they are trying to preserve their squeaky clean image. It would probably be most helpful for those who are on their "last strike" before losing their license or something. I thought it was interesting at least.

[afs]

or you could just drive the speed limit.

[sooner59]

or you could just drive the speed limit.

Stop being irrational. ;)

[sooner59]

On a side note, I was riding with my girlfriend (now fiance) a few years back and she turned onto a street at a stop sign. As soon as we turned onto the road, there was a speed limit sign and it was a 45 mph limit. She proceeded to accelerate at a very normal rate up to the speed limit. I then noticed a local patrol car approaching from the opposite direction. I watched her speedometer and she was up to 43 mph by the time the patrol car passed us. It then proceeded to turn on the lights and pull a u-turn and pull us over.

I could not think of anything she had done wrong, so I was very interested in what the officer had to say. He then said that he had clocked her going 54 mph, then slowing down to 45, then speeding back up to 50 mph. It was obvious that one of two things was happening.

1. His radar was off, because she was definitely not speeding, and his explanation was ridiculous.
2. He was lying.

I then told him that she had just pulled onto the road and there was no way she could be speeding yet, and added that I saw him as soon as his vehicle was visible and was watching her speedometer to make sure she wasn't speeding. So there was no way what he said was true.

He then said that if I wanted to argue that was fine, but he was only going to give her a warning. It was the first time she had ever been pulled over so she was visibly upset. I just let it go. If I was driving, I would have probably popped off something, but I didn't want to screw her over. He then explained that he was having a bad day already. I was thinking, "Who gives a ****, that has nothing to do with me."

Anyway, what I am saying is that you can be accused of a violation without actually being guilty of it, and proving you weren't speeding is pretty tough. Police try to meet quotas all of the time. It would be naive to think they never make **** up. Plus, my dad knows quite a few OHPs and even they said their radars aren't that accurate. One guy was driving in his squad car and clocked a tree traveling at 13 mph. So if that tells you anything...

[StoopTroup]

I think the idea is to actually take it to court and present this tactic. For people with spotless records, it would be just because they are trying to preserve their squeaky clean image. It would probably be most helpful for those who are on their "last strike" before losing their license or something. I thought it was interesting at least.

Interesting? It would be interesting to watch someone use that to defend one. That's for sure. When the judge in traffic court is done looking at them and he/she pounds that gavel down....I'd get my old physics/math books and this thread out before I defend my next ticket, however....unless you were prepared to present google images and draw out visuals of all your conclusions and make the cop dispute any of it, I'd be shocked if you'd be able to slow court proceedings down unless the judge found you interesting and liked to see you make a Cop look like a complete dumbass. It would be interesting to watch someone film and make a documentary film ala Micheal Moore style on the misuse of technology by Law Enforcement. I'm just thinking you might not get cameras into many of these courts but I guess transcripts would be available possibly.

So yeah...I guess I could see interesting.

I have tried to contest tickets before just to make sure the a-hole Cop that threaten to take me to jail would have to show up in court. That was interesting. I kind of won as even though the cop showed and I was studying for a final at school and had my books open until my case came up. The Judge heard my plee of no contest but was interested in what I was studying and called me into chambers. We talked for about 5-10 minutes and we went back to court and he closed the case with no mark against my driving record and leveled court costs of $45.00 against me instead of the $125.00 ticket. I'm still not sure to this very day what happened or what I did right but I got the feeling the judge didn't like the cop.

[Veritas]

NWA had it right back in '88.

[StoopTroup]

NWA had it right back in '88.

That was a good song. Not popular with law enforcement. LOL

[Oldnslo]

Not a whole lot of VASCAR in OK. You're much more likely to get a radar-checked ticket.

The testimony is like this:

Officer: I saw the vehicle and estimated its speed to be in excess of the posted limit. I then trained my radar on the vehicle and confirmed the speed to be in excess....

[Jammin']

Anyway, what I am saying is that you can be accused of a violation without actually being guilty of it.

As a black man I am shocked to read this.

[sooner59]

Heh.

[Penguin]

So, cops are risking their jobs, their careers, and their pensions just to eff all of you over. Makes sense to me.

[1890MilesToNorman]

Me no likey the PoPo, they lie, they cheat and they railroad. POS, most of'em.

[1890MilesToNorman]

Oh, and did I say full of **** and jes concerned with raising funds fer their town?

[sooner59]

So, cops are risking their jobs, their careers, and their pensions just to eff all of you over. Makes sense to me.

If you are talking about small town cops, yeah normally. Where I grew up, those who became small town city cops were those that didn't quite fit in back in high school, so they needed a badge and gun so people had to respect them and they could feel powerful. Highway patrols and city cops in bigger cities have much more of my respect because they deal with bigger issues. Don't get me wrong, I have met some small town cops that I have a lot of respect for, but a majority of them are worthless.

[StoopTroup]

Not a whole lot of VASCAR in OK. You're much more likely to get a radar-checked ticket.

The testimony is like this:

Officer: I saw the vehicle and estimated its speed to be in excess of the posted limit. I then trained my radar on the vehicle and confirmed the speed to be in excess....

Here's how my ticket went.

Officer: Son...do you know how fast you were doing?

Me: Not for sure but I'm pretty sure I was speeding?

Officer: Speeding? YOU WERE DOING THE SPEED OF ****ING LIGHT!

4 Cops cars and a helicopter later...I got a ticket instead of going to jail. It was close and there were a few tense moments. :D

[Okla-homey]

My thoughts? If the ticket is a big deal to you:

1) be really nice and respectful when you go to court.
2) Make sure you wear shoes, a shirt, and cover garish tattoos.
3) Wear long pants, even if it's hot out.
4) If you are female, no low-cut tops.
5) Make sure you haven't smoked weed or been drinking for at least 8 hrs before going to court.
6) Turn off your cell phone and do not wear a hat in court.
7) When your case is called, politely say, "the defendant is present your honor." Then when he or she asks you, enter a plea of "guilty" and ask for a deferred sentence.

Deferred equals no conviction, no points. If you pay the fine and have no other run-ins, at the end of the required period - poof! The ticket never happened.

[Boarder]

But what if I post a sweet video of my awesome vette doing 195?

lVv_n_D4ggM

[bent rider]

My thoughts? If the ticket is a big deal to you:

1) be really nice and respectful when you go to court.
2) Make sure you wear shoes, a shirt, and cover garish tattoos.
3) Wear long pants, even if it's hot out.
4) If you are female, no low-cut tops.
5) Make sure you haven't smoked weed or been drinking for at least 8 hrs before going to court.
6) Turn off your cell phone and do not wear a hat in court.
7) When your case is called, politely say, "the defendant is present your honor." Then when he or she asks you, enter a plea of "guilty" and ask for a deferred sentence.

Deferred equals no conviction, no points. If you pay the fine and have no other run-ins, at the end of the required period - poof! The ticket never happened.

I'm not an attorney, but solid advice from what I have seen.

Can't you get the same deal without going to court by talking to the City Attorney/DA or whoeever? (assuming a minor infraction with a fairly clean record)

[StoopTroup]

My thoughts? If the ticket is a big deal to you:

1) be really nice and respectful when you go to court.
2) Make sure you wear shoes, a shirt, and cover garish tattoos.
3) Wear long pants, even if it's hot out.
4) If you are female, no low-cut tops.
5) Make sure you haven't smoked weed or been drinking for at least 8 hrs before going to court.
6) Turn off your cell phone and do not wear a hat in court.
7) When your case is called, politely say, "the defendant is present your honor." Then when he or she asks you, enter a plea of "guilty" and ask for a deferred sentence.

Deferred equals no conviction, no points. If you pay the fine and have no other run-ins, at the end of the required period - poof! The ticket never happened.

That's how I did it....well except that when we went to chambers the Judge offered me to smoke some weed. I smelled a trap and told him I'm cool Bro. No thanks.

[Okla-homey]

Can't you get the same deal without going to court by talking to the City Attorney/DA or whoeever? (assuming a minor infraction with a fairly clean record)

It's possible. If you can track him or her down. If not, go with Plan "A", above.

Please note, communities and counties in Oklahoma with which I'm familiar have a pretty hard and fast policy that they won't defer speeding tix for going 90 m.p.h. or better.

[StoopTroup]

It's possible. If you can track him or her down. If not, go with Plan "A", above.

Tracking them down ain't to hard. Find out what case they are on...go to that Court and as they are leaving politely ask to speech with them regarding your case. Also....dress nice and be respectful. Don't expect anything and if they give you bad news or put you off take it like a man. If they put you off wait until the next case or go to their office and wait them out. Eventually you'll probably get to talk to them. That's what I've done and I've never gotten turned away.

[OUthunder]

I would take the judge some special chocolate brownies.