Some interesting facts

[85Sooner]

For those Obama Supporters........ all three of you.;)



When Bush took over the Natl Debt was 5.6 Trillion
in six years he and the repubs increased that by 2.9 trillion in 2006
They were kicked out of office and the dems took over. In two Years they along with Bush increased the Natl Debt 1.5 Trillion.
Then along came Obama who has increased it another 3.5 trillion in two years.
THOSE ARE FACTS. EVERY spending bill has to come out of congress. So blame the Repubs for 6 years-2.9 trillion increase and the Dems 4 years-5 Trillion. THAT IS DEBT.

Next, When Bush came in the unemployment rate was 4.2%. in 2006 in was 4.5%. Then the Dems took over. in two years it was at 6.9% and then Obama took over and now it sits at 9.8%.
THOSE ARE FACTS

Next TAXES;
In 2000 The rates were
15% 0-$22000 BUSH TAX CUTS changes that to 10% for those under $6000.00. For everyone else, their tax rates were decreased by .05 a percent.

That is and I really don't think you consider those who earn 6k per year rich.
Check it out for yourself.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html

NEXT,
Tax income receipts,.... due to the recession in 2000 tax receipts were decreasing. in 2000 they were 1.459 Trillion. in 2001 (the Bush tax cuts and 9/11) . It took 3 years to recover when tax receipts started increasing again and in 2005=1.490 trillion, 2006= 1.719 trillion 2007=1.883 trillion and 2008=1.812 trillion
That is with the same tax rates.
Now Obama with the same tax rate..2009=1.370 Trillion. WHY Because of things like Obamacare, Tax uncertainty, cap and trade etc..... Policies that KILL business..




the warnings were there.and voiced by President Bush but legislation was blocked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM

and in their own words.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs&feature=related

[NormanPride]

Most of this is because of the depression which was engineered under Bush's watch. Obama sucks, Bush sucks, we suck. Go away.

[Midtowner]

Taxes are always uncertain. Congress can change them anytime and without warning. What IS certain is that unless we either raise taxes significantly (without growing the government) or significantly shrink government, then we're looking at a pretty dismal future.

[pphilfran]

For those Obama Supporters........ all three of you.;)



When Bush took over the Natl Debt was 5.6 Trillion
in six years he and the repubs increased that by 2.9 trillion in 2006
They were kicked out of office and the dems took over. In two Years they along with Bush increased the Natl Debt 1.5 Trillion.
Then along came Obama who has increased it another 3.5 trillion in two years.
THOSE ARE FACTS. EVERY spending bill has to come out of congress. So blame the Repubs for 6 years-2.9 trillion increase and the Dems 4 years-5 Trillion. THAT IS DEBT.

Next, When Bush came in the unemployment rate was 4.2%. in 2006 in was 4.5%. Then the Dems took over. in two years it was at 6.9% and then Obama took over and now it sits at 9.8%.
THOSE ARE FACTS

Next TAXES;
In 2000 The rates were
15% 0-$22000 BUSH TAX CUTS changes that to 10% for those under $6000.00. For everyone else, their tax rates were decreased by .05 a percent.

That is and I really don't think you consider those who earn 6k per year rich.
Check it out for yourself.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html

NEXT,
Tax income receipts,.... due to the recession in 2000 tax receipts were decreasing. in 2000 they were 1.459 Trillion. in 2001 (the Bush tax cuts and 9/11) . It took 3 years to recover when tax receipts started increasing again and in 2005=1.490 trillion, 2006= 1.719 trillion 2007=1.883 trillion and 2008=1.812 trillion
That is with the same tax rates.
Now Obama with the same tax rate..2009=1.370 Trillion. WHY Because of things like Obamacare, Tax uncertainty, cap and trade etc..... Policies that KILL business..




the warnings were there.and voiced by President Bush but legislation was blocked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM

and in their own words.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs&feature=related

There was not a recession in 2000....and that was your most accurate statement...

[Oldnslo]

did cap and trade get passed?

[pphilfran]

did cap and trade get passed?

Uhhhhh....let me think for a second.....no....

[KC//CRIMSON]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ah63153bXx0/TN9g_Oc_mAI/AAAAAAAAEaA/ivpZT1K2H7c/s1600/bush-thanks-4-blaming-the-black-guy.jpg

[soonerscuba]

Most of this is because of the depression which was engineered under Bush's watch. Obama sucks, Bush sucks, we suck. Go away.Church. At least the Dems could figure out that their president sucked in two years instead of running around accusing people of treason for 6, which is a pretty minor victory, all things considered.

[Blue]

The partisan **** doesn't help or solve anything. Money runs this world and all of our politicians have sold out to it.

[The]

The partisan **** doesn't help or solve anything. Money runs this world and all of our politicians have sold out to it.


But, but... Libs! LIBS!!!!!

[AlboSooner]

The partisan **** doesn't help or solve anything. Money runs this world and all of our politicians have sold out to it.

Bravo sir. The worst thing we do is to engage in politics like we do in sports: with fanaticism and rooting for one team and only one team.

[bigfatjerk]

Both parties are to blame. 2.9 trillion in 6 years is not exactly good. It's just gotten worse since then. I don't really see a difference between the 2 outside of being more money. Hopefully they cut down the spending and the debt starts to go down.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Some republican politicians are bad apples, fiscally irresponsible, and crooked. The ENTIRE DEMOCRAT PARTY incapable of successfully leading our country in a responsible and honest way. I wish it wasn't so. They are the cause of our major problems in America, and have been for a VERY long time.

[soonerinkaty]

Well, I see partisanship is doing its part here.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Well, I see partisanship is doing its part here.Look at what the Democrats have done throughout history. If you're honest, you will come to the same conclusion as I have. As I said, I sure as he*l wish it wasn't so, but it is so, and we are suffering bigtime as a result of the democrats being in power.

[King Barry's Back]

Taxes are always uncertain. Congress can change them anytime and without warning. What IS certain is that unless we either raise taxes significantly (without growing the government) or significantly shrink government, then we're looking at a pretty dismal future.

I am afraid raising taxes significantly would bring on a dismal future as well, albeit more slowly than if we did nothing. So I am pulling for a downsized govt. But don't touch military spending! (That's where I work!)

[King Barry's Back]

Look at what the Democrats have done throughout history. If you're honest, you will come to the same conclusion as I have. As I said, I sure as he*l wish it wasn't so, but it is so, and we are suffering bigtime as a result of the democrats being in power.

You are absolutely right, and I hope America gives the Republicans another chance in 2012. And I hope even more that the GOP doesn't let them down this time.

Though, if America would be more realistic in their expectations, they wouldn't feel so let down either way.

[Tiptonsooner]

If anyone actually believes, that if taxes are raised, spending won't be increased. I gotta a bridge to sell you.......

[OklahomaTuba]

It could be worse, Obumblefuc could be re-elected. (highly unlikely at this point however)

[The]

Lots of examples of what's wrong with the country in this thread...

[My Opinion Matters]

I know, right?

[Aldebaran]

http://www.yourmoviestuff.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/knuckle-draggers.jpg

[The]

http://melissapierce.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/mouth_breathing.jpg

[Blue]

Why is it so hard of a concept to stop attacking each other and direct your anger where it belongs? The banks that made crooked deal after crooked deal, the CEOs that shipped your job to India, Brazil, China, and the Globalist Politician who thinks there is nothing special about the United States and is in fact embarrased of their country.

[AlboSooner]

Because those who you mentioned spend a lot of money to make sure we are at each other's throats while they ruin the country. And our media is a creation of those very people.

[StoopTroup]

So if 85Sooner isn't getting paid to post this stuff here....he's a complete dumb**** for not getting some payment for it?

[3rdgensooner]

Because those who you mentioned spend a lot of money to make sure we are at each other's throats while they ruin the country. And our media is a creation of those very people.This reminds me of an article I read recently (http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/brunitedstatescanadara/671.php?nid=&id=&pnt=671&lb=), here's the relevant excerpt:

The poll also found significant differences depending how people voted. Those who voted Republican were more likely than those who voted Democratic to believe that: most economists have concluded that the health care law will increase the deficit (voted Republican 73%, voted Democratic 31%); the American economy is still getting worse (72% to 36%); the stimulus legislation did not include any tax cuts (67% to 42%); most scientists do not agree that climate change is occurring (62% to 26%); and it is not clear that Obama was born within the United States (64% to 18%)

On the other hand those who voted Democratic were more likely to incorrectly believe that: it was proven to be true that the US Chamber of Commerce was spending large amounts of foreign money to support Republican candidates (voted Democratic 57%, voted Republican 9%); Obama has not increased the level of troops in Afghanistan (51% to 39%); and Democratic legislators did not mostly vote in favor of TARP (56% to 14%).

In most cases those who had greater levels of exposure to news sources had lower levels of misinformation. There were, however, a number of cases where greater exposure to a particular news source increased misinformation on some issues.

Those who watched Fox News almost daily were significantly more likely than those who never watched it to believe that most economists estimate the stimulus caused job losses (12 points more likely), most economists have estimated the health care law will worsen the deficit (31 points), the economy is getting worse (26 points), most scientists do not agree that climate change is occurring (30 points), the stimulus legislation did not include any tax cuts (14 points), their own income taxes have gone up (14 points), the auto bailout only occurred under Obama (13 points), when TARP came up for a vote most Republicans opposed it (12 points) and that it is not clear that Obama was born in the United States (31 points). The effect was also not simply a function of partisan bias, as people who voted Democratic and watched Fox News were also more likely to have such misinformation than those who did not watch it--though by a lesser margin than those who voted Republican.

There were cases with some other news sources as well. Daily consumers of MSNBC and public broadcasting (NPR and PBS) were higher (34 points and 25 points respectively) in believing that it was proven that the US Chamber of Commerce was spending money raised from foreign sources to support Republican candidates. Daily watchers of network TV news broadcasts were 12 points higher in believing that TARP was signed into law by President Obama, and 11 points higher in believing that most Republicans oppose TARP.

[Aldebaran]

Throwing out words like "globalist politicians" seems suggest a conspiracy. Please illuminate me.

[bigfatjerk]

Why is it so hard of a concept to stop attacking each other and direct your anger where it belongs? The banks that made crooked deal after crooked deal, the CEOs that shipped your job to India, Brazil, China, and the Globalist Politician who thinks there is nothing special about the United States and is in fact embarrased of their country.

I think it's not really that bad a thing to ship jobs over seas. All you have to do to get jobs here is make it easier for business to create and invest in jobs. And the so called shipping jobs over seas is a good thing because it's doing more in trade and more in jobs. All you really have to do is limit restrictions on business to fix these problems.

[StoopTroup]

:pop: :eek: :hot:


http://upload.tinychat.com/logo09/7ef9cb/fc/large/Illuminate_MeRR.jpg

[pphilfran]

Why is it so hard of a concept to stop attacking each other and direct your anger where it belongs? The banks that made crooked deal after crooked deal, the CEOs that shipped your job to India, Brazil, China, and the Globalist Politician who thinks there is nothing special about the United States and is in fact embarrased of their country.



So because of poor trade negotiations US companies should not be able to make use of low cost overseas labor...while the importers do use that cheap labor and undercut prices on US produced products...forcing the US operator to scale back or close down shop....

Far more loans were taken out by greedy people trying to get more house than they could afford then were ever given illegal or falsified loans...

I guess the fed by allowing 100% loans and interest only payment loans is off the hook?

Freddie and Fannie buying those overpriced/suspisious loans also had nothing to do with the meltdown? Didn't Freddie or Fannie do some spot checks to verify the loans they bought? If illegal activity was rampant would those audits find some of those questionable loans? Or did they just buy the paper without checking out what they were buying?

[bigfatjerk]

Freddie and Fannie buying those overpriced/suspisious loans also had nothing to do with the meltdown? Didn't Freddie or Fannie do some spot checks to verify the loans they bought? If illegal activity was rampant would those audits find some of those questionable loans? Or did they just buy the paper with checking out what they were buying?

All the meltdown stuff was really just government ran illegal activities. If anyone really thinks more government control will suddenly fix this you are fooling yourself.

[Blue]

Throwing out words like "globalist politicians" seems suggest a conspiracy. Please illuminate me.

I don't think its a conspiracy anymore. Many bankers, politicians, and media on the world stage have voiced their desire for a New Order.

[StoopTroup]

So because of poor trade negotiations US companies should not be able to make use of low cost overseas labor...while the importers do use that cheap labor and undercut prices on US produced products...forcing the US operator to scale back or close down shop....

Far more loans were taken out by greedy people trying to get more house than they could afford then were ever given illegal or falsified loans...

I guess the fed by allowing 100% loans and interest only payment loans is off the hook?

Freddie and Fannie buying those overpriced/suspisious loans also had nothing to do with the meltdown? Didn't Freddie or Fannie do some spot checks to verify the loans they bought? If illegal activity was rampant would those audits find some of those questionable loans? Or did they just buy the paper without checking out what they were buying?

We're using Freddie and Fannie again right now.

They just bought the paper. We are back to a self-governing type of situation and they are only keeping it all honest again by the Gov't hand slapping a few people and telling them that they might hold them accountable the next time they do it.

It's all still a bad situation....it always has been....it's why I got out of Corporate Accounting in 1990....I found it hard to sleep at night.

[soonerscuba]

I think it's not really that bad a thing to ship jobs over seas. All you have to do to get jobs here is make it easier for business to create and invest in jobs. And the so called shipping jobs over seas is a good thing because it's doing more in trade and more in jobs. All you really have to do is limit restrictions on business to fix these problems.Deregulation would also lead to cheaper unicorn stables and a greater supply of domestic fairy dust.

[AlboSooner]

I think it's not really that bad a thing to ship jobs over seas. All you have to do to get jobs here is make it easier for business to create and invest in jobs. And the so called shipping jobs over seas is a good thing because it's doing more in trade and more in jobs. All you really have to do is limit restrictions on business to fix these problems.

What if the only restriction is amount of profit? Meaning a certain company is making profit, but they like to double that, so they move their jobs in a third world country, paying people 11 cents per hour, while leaving many people here jobless, while the product will be sold in the same market you took the jobs away from.

It is irrational, to me at least, to leave a certain market without jobs, then demand that the same market buy your product. They have no jobs!!!

Sorry Joe, I'm gonna ship your manufacturing job to China, but please buy my product.

[Blue]

I think it's not really that bad a thing to ship jobs over seas. All you have to do to get jobs here is make it easier for business to create and invest in jobs. And the so called shipping jobs over seas is a good thing because it's doing more in trade and more in jobs. All you really have to do is limit restrictions on business to fix these problems.

Which is the exact opposite of whats happening. I do agree in theory, though.

[pphilfran]

What if the only restriction is amount of profit? Meaning a certain company is making profit, but they like to double that, so they move their jobs in a third world country, paying people 11 cents per hour, while leaving many people here jobless, while the product will be sold in the same market you took the jobs away from.

It is irrational, to me at least, to leave a certain market without jobs, then demand that the same market buy your product. They have no jobs!!!

Sorry Joe, I'm gonna ship your manufacturing job to China, but please buy my product.



And if they can't compete with low labor, overseas companies they may not be profitable and will be forced to consolidate or shut down....They have no jobs!!!

[Aldebaran]

Obviously it was ok for everyone to be asleep at the wheel as long as the economy danced a good dance.

[virginiasooner]

Throwing out words like "globalist politicians" seems suggest a conspiracy. Please illuminate me.

That's just another code word for President Obama. Since he wasn't born in the United States, his first allegiance is to Kenya (or Great Britain -- birther logic is confusing).* It's like when the Democratic opposition calls the President "urban" it's more code for him being "not white". And since President Obama doesn't genuflect to the flag enough, he's considered "not patriotic enough" who would put other country's interests ahead of the interests of the United States.** And since President Obama is not constantly wearing a flag pin (made in China), he obviously doesn't love this country more than any Republican on Capitol Hill.

*The President was born in Hawaii in 1962.

** Corporations who ship jobs overseas are more dangerous to the overall welfare of this country than President Obama.

[StoopTroup]

Obviously it was ok for everyone to be asleep at the wheel as long as the economy danced a good dance.

It still is....

You can thank your lucky stars the Pubs are in charge now....

[AlboSooner]

And if they can't compete with low labor, overseas companies they may not be profitable and will be forced to consolidate or shut down....They have no jobs!!!

Good point. However I'd take my chances employing my own people then some other people. Hoping that the same people will see fit to buy my products even though are maybe a little higher. If I was employed at Ford, do you think I'd buy a Honda?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I think it's not really that bad a thing to ship jobs over seas. All you have to do to get jobs here is make it easier for business to create and invest in jobs. And the so called shipping jobs over seas is a good thing because it's doing more in trade and more in jobs. All you really have to do is limit restrictions on business to fix these problems.A company exists to make money. Not to operate in the red, as it, if left alone by politicians, will go under if it can't make expenses.

[Blue]

That's just another code word for President Obama. Since he wasn't born in the United States, his first allegiance is to Kenya (or Great Britain -- birther logic is confusing).* It's like when the Democratic opposition calls the President "urban" it's more code for him being "not white". And since President Obama doesn't genuflect to the flag enough, he's considered "not patriotic enough" who would put other country's interests ahead of the interests of the United States.** And since President Obama is not constantly wearing a flag pin (made in China), he obviously doesn't love this country more than any Republican on Capitol Hill.

*The President was born in Hawaii in 1962.

** Corporations who ship jobs overseas are more dangerous to the overall welfare of this country than President Obama.

Yeah thats exactly what I said, ****stick. How about you not put words in my mouth?

My main target is the Fed and its policies for the last 100 years. The last 10 specifically.

Take your partisan hackery somewhere else.

[StoopTroup]

A company exists to make money. Not to operate in the red, as it, if left alone by politicians, will go under if it can't make expenses.

OK....then explain how Corporations can lose money every quarter for years and still do business? Seriously....I hope you understand what you're saying is complete BS. They exist now so that the top 1% can make themselves wealthy for either doing a fair job of damage control and/or putting their competition out of business without becoming a monopoly.

[bigfatjerk]

A company exists to make money. Not to operate in the red, as it, if left alone by politicians, will go under if it can't make expenses.

Exactly, we would be better off without government running business because companies main goal it make sure their product is going to make money and to make sure everything they do is in top shape to keep making money. Government isn't in it to make money which is why after years their facilities fall to crap.

[bigfatjerk]

OK....then explain how Corporations can lose money every quarter for years and still do business?


Because government allows it. And props up these businesses even if they don't deserve it. If we allow these big businesses to fall or go through bankruptcy and ownership change process they would be better off in the end. Instead we just bail them all out and hope they stay up.

[pphilfran]

Good point. However I'd take my chances employing my own people then some other people. Hoping that the same people will see fit to buy my products even though are maybe a little higher. If I was employed at Ford, do you think I'd buy a Honda?

Most do buy not all...

You won't stay in business for long by selling non competitive vehicles to only your employees...

Our negotiated trade laws are very favorable to imports...

It is a thin line we walk....we want those cheap labor countries to grow and prosper so they can buy our goods...but once they come on stream they are a formidable force...see Japan from the 50's vs today...or China who will be making even further inroads...but you don't want to make it so easy that they dominate the market....

[pphilfran]

Yeah thats exactly what I said, ****stick. How about you not put words in my mouth?

My main target is the Fed and its policies for the last 100 years. The last 10 specifically.

Take your partisan hackery somewhere else.

I say last 15 years...

[StoopTroup]

Exactly, we would be better off without government running business because companies main goal it make sure their product is going to make money and to make sure everything they do is in top shape to keep making money. Government isn't in it to make money which is why after years their facilities fall to crap.

Gov't/State Funded Schools were originally made to educate and not make money either but they do now.

All of you need a reality check. There's the way we want it, the way we think it should be and the way it really is. It usually takes most people years to figure out the way it really is because it's easier to believe what other people tell you or teach you. Eventually some of us figure it out....others continue to cut and paste from political websites.

[Aldebaran]

Dang it... I was planning on using my 69th post for something more productive than politics.


:mad:

[Blue]

I say last 15 years...

Alan Greenspan. What an *******.

[StoopTroup]

Because government allows it.

OK....now we are getting somewhere. And why does Gov't allow it?

[StoopTroup]

Alan Greenspan. What an *******.

It's easy to blame one guy but the way the system is built he was in control and was allowed to run it all. It's still the same way right now only it's not Alan.

[Blue]

Gov't/State Funded Schools were originally made to educate and not make money either but they do now.

All of you need a reality check. There's the way we want it, the way we think it should be and the way it really is. It usually takes most people years to figure out the way it really is because it's easier to believe what other people tell you or teach you. Eventually some of us figure it out....others continue to cut and paste from political websites.

You might be right ST, but doesn't it seem like "the way it really is" is accelerating at an alarming clip into "the way it is now."

We're on a fast track to a Police/security State, DC is running car companies, unemployment is at 10% and 17% U-6, but I guess that just the way "it really is."

Well **** me sideways, why even give a damn?

[Aldebaran]

OK....now we are getting somewhere. And why does Gov't allow it?

Your line of questioning is starting to take on a sinister... leading by the nose... tone.

http://ttcritic.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/silence2.jpg

[Aldebaran]

Why to the American people covet?

[Blue]

It's easy to blame one guy but the way the system is built he was in control and was allowed to run it all. It's still the same way right now only it's not Alan.

I call him an *** bc he and his successors are Keynesians. It'd be nice to get someone who subscribes to Austrian econ in there for a change just to see what would happen. We couldn't do that though, we might pay off the debt, stop printing money, and making bankers trillionaires!

[virginiasooner]

Yeah thats exactly what I said, ****stick. How about you not put words in my mouth?

My main target is the Fed and its policies for the last 100 years. The last 10 specifically.

Take your partisan hackery somewhere else.

No need for namecalling. Please forgive my sarcastic tone. And what you call "partisan hackery" I call expressing my political beliefs. I will not apologize for what I believe. The past 15 years have been incredibly damaging to the infrastructure of this country. But your opinion as to how to correct those problems may be different than mine, but that is no excuse for invective.

[bigfatjerk]

Gov't/State Funded Schools were originally made to educate and not make money either but they do now.

All of you need a reality check. There's the way we want it, the way we think it should be and the way it really is. It usually takes most people years to figure out the way it really is because it's easier to believe what other people tell you or teach you. Eventually some of us figure it out....others continue to cut and paste from political websites.

And we have the system we have now. The best most educated people in our country usually go through the PRIVATE school system.

[Blue]

No need for namecalling. Please forgive my sarcastic tone. And what you call "partisan hackery" I call expressing my political beliefs. I will not apologize for what I believe. The past 15 years have been incredibly damaging to the infrastructure of this country. But your opinion as to how to correct those problems may be different than mine, but that is no excuse for invective.

Sorry for the namecalling.

[Aldebaran]

And/Or live in rich neighborhoods.

[sperry]

A company exists to make money. Not to operate in the red, as it, if left alone by politicians, will go under if it can't make expenses.


Unless it commits frad on a massive scale because there is no one there to check on it: see ENRON, Worldcom, Adelphia, etc.




The problems faced by this company boil down to greed, and it exists on both sides of the political aisle. Politicans essentially exist to keep themselves in office. They keep themselves in office by funding massive campaigns. They fund massive campaigns by getting government funds or tax breaks to interest groups.

[pphilfran]

Alan Greenspan. What an *******.

Yep...just think, he was a financial god at one time...and it goes deeper than Greenspan...

I must admit he made me a ton of money with his policy during the irrational exuberance 90's...

[StoopTroup]

I call him an *** bc he and his successors are Keynesians. It'd be nice to get someone who subscribes to Austrian econ in there for a change just to see what would happen. We couldn't do that though, we might pay off the debt, stop printing money, and making bankers trillionaires!

It might be nice but the folks who have a much larger stake in all of this than even the POTUS does, will be the ones to decide what is best for the World economies. If you think that is just about the US...you are in need of a bit more education in the World economies.

[AlboSooner]

i have enjoyed the courteous and rational discussion in this thread.

[bigfatjerk]

Unless it commits frad on a massive scale because there is no one there to check on it: see ENRON, Worldcom, Adelphia, etc.


And how many of those companies are still around. If you try and lie and cheat or fraud your way through you usually get caught. Unless you are run by the government(FANNIE AND FREDDIE)

[pphilfran]

i have enjoyed the courteous and rational discussion in this thread.

F you Albo and your courteous and rational responses....:D

[StoopTroup]

Your line of questioning is starting to take on a sinister... leading by the nose... tone.

http://ttcritic.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/silence2.jpg

I know. That's why I don't usually teach....I usually just post sarcastically. :D

[AlboSooner]

F you Albo and your courteous and rational responses....:D

+rep

[virginiasooner]

Unless it commits frad on a massive scale because there is no one there to check on it: see ENRON, Worldcom, Adelphia, etc.




The problems faced by this company boil down to greed, and it exists on both sides of the political aisle. Politicans essentially exist to keep themselves in office. They keep themselves in office by funding massive campaigns. They fund massive campaigns by getting government funds or tax breaks to interest groups.

When people scream about "there's too much government regulation" this is when we end up with companies like ENRON, Worldcom, Adelphia, and that whole financial mess on Wall Street. And everyone who screams about government regulation costing too much, I suggest they head to the library and read "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair. If your stomach isn't turned by the working conditions and living conditions of Packingtown, you don't have a stomach. That one book instituted the passage of the Pure Food and Drug Act.

Yes, greed exists on both sides of the aisle. Just remember that it was the five Republican appointees of the Supreme Court who ruled in favor of Citizens United (which opened the spigot to unlimited cash). That one ruling overturned decades of campaign finance rulings. I'm for complete disclosure of all donations to political campaigns. You can't be anonymous and donate even indirectly to a political campaign through a PAC or lobbying group -- in other words, NO FOREIGN MONEY!!!

[49r]

I call him an *** bc he and his successors are Keynesians. It'd be nice to get someone who subscribes to Austrian econ in there for a change just to see what would happen. We couldn't do that though, we might pay off the debt, stop printing money, and making bankers trillionaires!

Well, that and it's got a pansy, socialist-sounding European country name.

[StoopTroup]

I think legalizing Prostitution would help the economy.

[bigfatjerk]

I think legalizing Prostitution would help the economy.

I'm not against that. Just like I think we should legalize drugs. But I'm not too against having these banned in public areas. Basically treat it similar to how we treat alcohol.

[StoopTroup]

You don't have to become a mega-Corporation to be rich either. Yet once the Mega-Corp gives you an offer to sell....you probably ought to sell. Sure there's no direct threat....but if you're wise these days...you better just sell to them and find something else to do.

[StoopTroup]

I'm not against that. Just like I think we should legalize drugs. But I'm not too against having these banned in public areas. Basically treat it similar to how we treat alcohol.

Craigslist?

[pphilfran]

When people scream about "there's too much government regulation" this is when we end up with companies like ENRON, Worldcom, Adelphia, and that whole financial mess on Wall Street. And everyone who screams about government regulation costing too much, I suggest they head to the library and read "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair. If your stomach isn't turned by the working conditions and living conditions of Packingtown, you don't have a stomach. That one book instituted the passage of the Pure Food and Drug Act.

Yes, greed exists on both sides of the aisle. Just remember that it was the five Republican appointees of the Supreme Court who ruled in favor of Citizens United (which opened the spigot to unlimited cash). That one ruling overturned decades of campaign finance rulings. I'm for complete disclosure of all donations to political campaigns. You can't be anonymous and donate even indirectly to a political campaign through a PAC or lobbying group -- in other words, NO FOREIGN MONEY!!!

We have all the regulation we need....though the auditing system is dysfunctional...

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Because government allows it. And props up these businesses even if they don't deserve it. If we allow these big businesses to fall or go through bankruptcy and ownership change process they would be better off in the end. Instead we just bail them all out and hope they stay up...at great expense to the American people.

[StoopTroup]

We need to put a Govt run oversight committee in charge of auditing and prosecuting the Banking Industry.

[virginiasooner]

We have all the regulation we need....though the auditing system is dysfunctional...

Some areas are over-regulated. Some aren't regulated enough. I don't think things are going to get any better over the next few years.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

And how many of those companies are still around. If you try and lie and cheat or fraud your way through you usually get caught. Unless you are run by the government(FANNIE AND FREDDIE)and, who in the govt. is responsible for not policing or not allowing the policing of the Fannie and Freddie?shhh, it's the effing democrats, buying votes from the professional entitlement class.

[pphilfran]

Some areas are over-regulated. Some aren't regulated enough. I don't think things are going to get any better over the next few years.

What areas are not regulated enough?

[Aldebaran]

We should have a halfway through the GWOT party and burn some __________.

[Frozen Sooner]

I call him an *** bc he and his successors are Keynesians. It'd be nice to get someone who subscribes to Austrian econ in there for a change just to see what would happen. We couldn't do that though, we might pay off the debt, stop printing money, and making bankers trillionaires!

Alan Greenspan is a Keynesian?

News to him.

[Ike]

Some other interesting facts:
Tycho Brahe:
a) Had a silver nose
b) Owned an elk which died after consuming too much beer and falling down the stairs
c) Himself died due to a refusal to leave a banquet to relieve himself, as this would have been a breach of etiquette
d) all of the above.

And Alan Greenspan was not a Keynesian.

[bigfatjerk]

Some other interesting facts:
Tycho Brahe:
a) Had a silver nose
b) Owned an elk which died after consuming too much beer and falling down the stairs
c) Himself died due to a refusal to leave a banquet to relieve himself, as this would have been a breach of etiquette
d) all of the above.

And Alan Greenspan was not a Keynesian.

I wouldn't say he was really pro Austrian school either.

[Ike]

I wouldn't say he was really pro Austrian school either.

No, he was Danish.

[Frozen Sooner]

I wouldn't say he was really pro Austrian school either.

There's more than two schools of economic thought.

For cryin' out loud, the man was a close friend and apologist for Ayn Rand. Keynesian my foot.

[bigfatjerk]

Yeah he didn't believe in what Ayn Rand wanted. It's a joke to say he really believed in what Ayn Rand or the Ron Pauls of today want.

[Ike]

I wouldn't say he was really pro Austrian school either.

Oh you meant the other guy? Many would say thats because he would use math.

[bigfatjerk]

Oh you meant the other guy? Many would say thats because he would use math.

Yeah and what you do now uses math at all. Spend like crazy and make up more money thinking everything will always be good.

[DIB]

http://www.beingpeachy.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/large-Hypnotoad_animated.gif

[My Opinion Matters]

There's more than two schools of economic thought.

For cryin' out loud, the man was a close friend and apologist for Ayn Rand. Keynesian my foot.

Pffft. Next you'll want us to believe there's more than two schools of political thought.

[Blue]

It might be nice but the folks who have a much larger stake in all of this than even the POTUS does, will be the ones to decide what is best for the World economies. If you think that is just about the US...you are in need of a bit more education in the World economies.

Sounds like a conspiracy. ;)

[Blue]

Alan Greenspan is a Keynesian?

News to him.

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=003DyC

[Frozen Sooner]

Yeah, your link explicitly concedes he's not a keynesian.

Friedman is a monetarist, not a keynesian. There's rather significant differences between the two schools of thought.

Seriously, that's about as accurate a statement as calling the Pope jewish.

[Blue]

Yeah, your link explicitly concedes he's not a keynesian.

Friedman is a monetarist, not a keynesian. There's rather significant differences between the two schools of thought.

Seriously, that's about as accurate a statement as calling the Pope jewish.

My point with the link is that they are very similar in practice. And we are still doing the same things.

As to your last point....whatever, dude.

[Blue]

Another interesting fact. People who continue to defend DC, the federal reserve, and activist judges tooth and nail and try to dismiss anyone who questions them are becoming fewer in number every day. And thats a good thing.

[Jammin']

The first World Series played entirely on artifical turf was in 1980, Phils vs Royals. Phils won.

[soonerscuba]

1. Deregulation
2. Austrian school (sounds foreign)
3. ?
4. Profit

[AlboSooner]

1. Deregulation
2. Austrian school (sounds foreign)
3. ?
4. Profit

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n501/billmilo/Boot-Landry.gif

[My Opinion Matters]

3=Criminalization of registering as a Democrat.

[Spray]

Boo!

[85Sooner]

There was not a recession in 2000....and that was your most accurate statement...

Excuse me, it started march of 2001. Is that better? The rest of the facts come from our own government reporting offices.

Accept it or not but these are accurate at least to the historical records.