Halfway through law school.

[Frozen Sooner]

Yay.

I'm going to go take a giant nap now. You guys be good. And please, for the love of god, if you're going to take a security interest in something, file the goddamn appropriate paperwork in the appropriate office and make sure you've got the guy's name right.

[C&CDean]

Half a congrats brother.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

take big nap, play black-ops, repeat

[olevetonahill]

Our little boy is almost growed up, sniff sniff.
Grats bro

[SunnySooner]

Congrats, Froz, enjoy your break.

[Sooner_Bob]

Matlock!

[yermom]

hopefully after tomorrow i'll have one semester/12 hours left of my undergrad

i have no idea what that fraction is :D

[Fraggle145]

Yay.

I'm going to go take a giant nap now. You guys be good. And please, for the love of god, if you're going to take a security interest in something, file the goddamn appropriate paperwork in the appropriate office and make sure you've got the guy's name right.

Post Reported.

[Veritas]

We can say goddamn but we can't say ****? Taking the Lord's name in vain is way ****ing worse the ****ing saying ****!

[yermom]

**** off dip****

[Soonerntxs]

Congrats, now get some sleep!

[Penguin]

Your Honor, I would like this thread stricken from the record.

[NormanPride]

Who's volunteering to Helander just so Froz has something to do? :D

[Midtowner]

I can't think of anything worse than taking a secured transactions class. You must be quite glad to be done with that.

[OhU1]

Been there done that. Sleep, eat, drink, be merry and enjoy the long break!

Finishing law school finals makes you feel like you've been subjected to a mental enema.

[C&CDean]

I had some beers last week with a bunch of 1st year law school geeks from George Mason Law. They had just finished their first final, and were all "oh my gawd, I know I failed...I mean I just completely blew that tort question..."

One of the hotter ones had an Iowa St. sweatshirt on. I asked her about it and she said "I just like the colors, I went to Texas A&M." I go "oh. Well you are an aggie."

Law schoolers are weird mofos.

[JohnnyMack]

Time to fap!

[Frozen Sooner]

I can't think of anything worse than taking a secured transactions class. You must be quite glad to be done with that.


12 years of primary school. Four years of undergrad. Several professional licenses. Year and a half of law school. That's the first exam in my whole life I didn't finish due to time constraints. About halfway through the second question I started writing [citation needed] instead of looking up UCC section numbers. Hey, if the professor can do it on her articles for some poor student to fix, I can do it on my final.

[C&CDean]

You are sooooo gonna fail.

[Frozen Sooner]

Heh. Two people out of 100 finished. One of them told me she simply gave up after the first question.

[Boarder]

Two people out of 100 finished.

So you're saying there's a chance!
http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/116/m_dde09c521a153c9dc0538228ad2962d5.jpg

[WichitaSooner]

So you are halfway to this guy:

http://www.hotelchatter.com/files/admin/caveman_lawyer2.jpg

[Jboozer]

I can't think of anything worse than taking a secured transactions class. You must be quite glad to be done with that.

I can... How about "Federal Securities Regulation"

[Frozen Sooner]

I can... How about "Federal Securities Regulation"

Next semester. :(

On the bright side, no more Federal Jurisdiction. Yay.

[sperry]

I am 3 finals away from being half way done with law school. Wish I was zero finals away.

[Okla-homey]

Next semester. :(

On the bright side, no more Federal Jurisdiction. Yay.

Is "Federal Jurisdiction" bammer law skool for "Federal Civil and/or Criminal Procedure?"

And good for you. Next year will be boring. The trick'll be getting a paying gig after graduation in this horrid Obama economy.

[Frozen Sooner]

It's Federal Jurisdiction. Civil Procedure is taught first year. Criminal Procedure is two other courses (Arrest/Bail-to-Jail). Your school may have called it Federal Courts. There's some overlap with Civ Pro, but much more in depth. Also covers standing, federal common law, private/public rights of action, congressional control of Article III jurisdiction, abstention doctrine, habeas corpus, establishment of legislative courts, in-depth treatment of Erie doctrine, etc.

And I was under the impression this recession started in early 2008. But hey, I have two summer gigs lined up, hopefully I can swing an offer out of one of 'em.

[AlbqSooner]

Kudos Froze.

I despised everything about secured transactions. Even on the Oklahoma Bar exam, they presented a UCC question that was three single spaced pages of facts, at the end of which it said, "Discuss all issues."

The more I read, the more confused I got. I recalled that in the Bar Review courses they said if you are near panic, take a deep breath, write SOMETHING, and go on.

My answer on that question was, "This is a UCC question. The answer can be found in Title 12A, Oklahoma Statutes." That was the location of the UCC at that time. I passed the bar exam, but I am sure the graders read that, had a good laugh, and gave me the minimum points.

Also, when you finish the next semester and get your grades, calculate your GPA to that point. Then, calculate how poorly you can do in the third year and still graduate. I did this and above my desk at home I had a sheet of paper taped that said, "D stands for Diploma". It makes the stress of that third year MUCH less.

[Frozen Sooner]

Hah. Nice. On the bright side, the guy who wrote the Lexis hornbook on Secured was my Contracts II professor, so every time I got hung up on something my professor did, I'd go talk to him and he'd straighten me out.

[StoopTroup]

Congrats I think. Some of your Protege's here aren't exactly painting a future of brightness. Maybe you should have worked on your slider and playing Professional Baseball. :D ;)

[Leroy Lizard]

I can't think of anything worse than taking a secured transactions class.

I can. It was called simply "Jackson." Ike the Physics Dude will know what I'm talking about. I took it at OU from some old prof named Coen (or Cohn, something like that).

The coursework treated me like an animal. But I'm a human being!

[Ctina]

I did this and above my desk at home I had a sheet of paper taped that said, "D stands for Diploma". It makes the stress of that third year MUCH less.

I'm in Nursing school... We just keep repeating the phrase that our first semester teachers said - C's get degree's. :)

[Midtowner]

Also, when you finish the next semester and get your grades, calculate your GPA to that point. Then, calculate how poorly you can do in the third year and still graduate. I did this and above my desk at home I had a sheet of paper taped that said, "D stands for Diploma". It makes the stress of that third year MUCH less.

I did this as well. After the first semester, I was #5 in my class. I had worked my *** off and I already had a job guaranteed when I got out of school (in my father's practice, so it's not like I had much to worry about). Consequently, my preparation and effort declined dramatically. I got a law review invitation and blew it off, I only graduated in the top 50%, but I had a damned good time.

After your first job, what you did in law school is pretty meaningless.

[Soonermagik]

What type of law do you plan on practicing once you get out? IMHO, you should look hard at bad faith litigation. Either that, or maybe something along the lines of family law lol.

[stoopified]

Is it too late to reconsider TRUCKMASTER? :D

[badger]

So... is it true that tons more kids are trying to become lawyers because of all the tales of making tons of money, or is that just a popular rumor?

What will be paid off first - your law school loans or the 30-year mortgage you'll take out on your big new lawyer house after you graduate :)

And finally, are you going to be one of those depressing 100-hours-per-week lawyers, an ambulance chaser, a small county judge that handles all the traffic tickets for the speed traps next to the nearby highway, a happy guy that does probono work for non-profits that gets paid in smiles and fruit baskets, or the chief justice of the Supreme Court?

[Frozen Sooner]

What type of law do you plan on practicing once you get out? IMHO, you should look hard at bad faith litigation. Either that, or maybe something along the lines of family law lol.

Corporate bankruptcy and secured transactions, as it happens.

I don't know that anyone could pay me enough to do family law. Not that it's not honset work, but I just couldn't handle the horribleness of the clients.

[Frozen Sooner]

So... is it true that tons more kids are trying to become lawyers because of all the tales of making tons of money, or is that just a popular rumor?

What will be paid off first - your law school loans or the 30-year mortgage you'll take out on your big new lawyer house after you graduate :)

And finally, are you going to be one of those depressing 100-hours-per-week lawyers, an ambulance chaser, a small county judge that handles all the traffic tickets for the speed traps next to the nearby highway, a happy guy that does probono work for non-profits that gets paid in smiles and fruit baskets, or the chief justice of the Supreme Court?

I'm on full scholarship.

Yes, there's definitely a lot of people applying to law school because of the combination of the economy and the inflated salary numbers people report for first-year attorneys. For example, Alabama Law has been hit with such an increase in applications that the admittance rate for the class of 2013 was 6%. At a public law school. Sure, a brand-new associate at Skadden Arps makes 160k plus bonuses their first year, but you're not realistically getting a job offer at Skadden unless you go to one of the top 15 or so law schools. Same goes for any of the Vault Top Ten firms.

[sperry]

So... is it true that tons more kids are trying to become lawyers because of all the tales of making tons of money, or is that just a popular rumor?

What will be paid off first - your law school loans or the 30-year mortgage you'll take out on your big new lawyer house after you graduate :)

And finally, are you going to be one of those depressing 100-hours-per-week lawyers, an ambulance chaser, a small county judge that handles all the traffic tickets for the speed traps next to the nearby highway, a happy guy that does probono work for non-profits that gets paid in smiles and fruit baskets, or the chief justice of the Supreme Court?


There are so many more people going to law school than there are going to be jobs for, it's depressing. Also, the disparity of salaries is just ridiculous, for those that are lucky enough to get jobs. Those who are going into private practice for large firms will start out making $100-160k, depending on the market ($100 for a small place like OKC, $145 in a Phoenix or Philadelphia, $160 in L.A., NYC, D.C., Houston). If you aren't starting out at a monster firm that pays top dollar, if you're able to secure employment, it's going to be for $40-$50k.


Basically, it's a terrible idea to to go to law school, unless you're getting substantial scholarhip money (and law school tends to give only merit scholarships, not aid-based). Even at the very best schools, about half the class is going to be accepting jobs paying less than what they probably could have earned out of undergrad, despite having dropped $150k for law school. When you go further down the line, that number drops really fast as you go down the school rankings. Meanwhile, law schools publish ridiculous reported salary figures, based on the fact that the people who respond to the questionnaires are the people who are doing well. The people who are working at starbucks after their J.D. tend not to respond to the "how much are you making" question.


So, for all the parents out there, tell your kid to major in something real which has employment prospects out of UG, and not to rely on going to law school, unless you have family connections or something that can insure they get a decent job.

[Frozen Sooner]

There are so many more people going to law school than there are going to be jobs for, it's depressing. Also, the disparity of salaries is just ridiculous, for those that are lucky enough to get jobs. Those who are going into private practice for large firms will start out making $100-160k, depending on the market ($100 for a small place like OKC, $145 in a Phoenix or Philadelphia, $160 in L.A., NYC, D.C., Houston). If you aren't starting out at a monster firm that pays top dollar, if you're able to secure employment, it's going to be for $40-$50k.


Basically, it's a terrible idea to to go to law school, unless you're getting substantial scholarhip money (and law school tends to give only merit scholarships, not aid-based). Even at the very best schools, about half the class is going to be accepting jobs paying less than what they probably could have earned out of undergrad, despite having dropped $150k for law school. When you go further down the line, that number drops really fast as you go down the school rankings. Meanwhile, law schools publish ridiculous reported salary figures, based on the fact that the people who respond to the questionnaires are the people who are doing well. The people who are working at starbucks after their J.D. tend not to respond to the "how much are you making" question.


So, for all the parents out there, tell your kid to major in something real which has employment prospects out of UG, and not to rely on going to law school, unless you have family connections or something that can insure they get a decent job.

Yeah. That.

Unless you get into a T-14 and have substantial family money backing you up or you get a scholarship, going to law school is a bad financial decision.

[Ike]

I can. It was called simply "Jackson." Ike the Physics Dude will know what I'm talking about. I took it at OU from some old prof named Coen (or Cohn, something like that).

The coursework treated me like an animal. But I'm a human being!

heh. Cohn retired right after I came in. He was teaching Goldstein then, and luckily I didn't have to take it from him. From what I was told, it was possible to wind up with a negative score on his tests.

Cohn+Jackson would be the devil.

Although my experience with Jackson was not terrible. There was one other textbook actually that made me want pound my head against a brick wall even more (Statistical Mechanics out of Reichl).

[badger]

If not, family law, what are you gonna do?

[Frozen Sooner]

If not, family law, what are you gonna do?

(Psst. I said what I was planning to do above.)

[badger]

(Psst. I said what I was planning to do above.)

Sorry, thread's already on a new page. What're you gonna do


Corporate bankruptcy and secured transactions, as it happens.

I don't know that anyone could pay me enough to do family law. Not that it's not honset work, but I just couldn't handle the horribleness of the clients.

Thanks for repeating yourself :P

[Frozen Sooner]

Sorry, thread's already on a new page. What're you gonna do



Thanks for repeating yourself :P

Psst. It's even in the post where I said I didn't want to do family law.

Corporate bankruptcy and secured transactions.

[badger]

Pbbth, corporations don't declare bankruptcy anymore :D

[saucysoonergal]

Code courses were always my favorite, especially when the prof lets you bring the code into the final.

[SoonerAtKU]

heh. Cohn retired right after I came in. He was teaching Goldstein then, and luckily I didn't have to take it from him. From what I was told, it was possible to wind up with a negative score on his tests.

Cohn+Jackson would be the devil.

Although my experience with Jackson was not terrible. There was one other textbook actually that made me want pound my head against a brick wall even more (Statistical Mechanics out of Reichl).

I took a class from him when I was an engineering major ('97 or so). He gave tests that were 10 questions, one point each. If you don't answer a question, no foul, but if you answer it wrong, you lose half a point. You could potentially get a -5 on an exam.

The cool thing was that his grade scale was strange, you only needed something like 23 points across all 4 tests to get an A for the class. I had a classmate who did so well, Dr. Cohn actually wrote on his final "Have you considered a career in physics?" That's one of his educational high points.

[yermom]

i heard horror stories about him, but i managed to avoid his class as well

i just took my final for Statistical Physics and Thermodynamics this morning

that class pretty much melted my brain after no math or physics in like 10 years

[Ike]

I took a class from him when I was an engineering major ('97 or so). He gave tests that were 10 questions, one point each. If you don't answer a question, no foul, but if you answer it wrong, you lose half a point. You could potentially get a -5 on an exam.

The cool thing was that his grade scale was strange, you only needed something like 23 points across all 4 tests to get an A for the class. I had a classmate who did so well, Dr. Cohn actually wrote on his final "Have you considered a career in physics?" That's one of his educational high points.

If the story I heard was correct, Dr. Cohn also at one time had a picture of the Space Shuttle Challenger explosion on his door with a caption that was something along the lines of: "This is the result of partial credit"

[Frozen Sooner]

If the story I heard was correct, Dr. Cohn also at one time had a picture of the Space Shuttle Challenger explosion on his door with a caption that was something along the lines of: "This is the result of partial credit"

I love this.

It bothers me sometimes that the bridges I drive across were designed by a guy who got a 60% in a civil engineering course.

Then again, I guess it bothers me that some people are being represented by people whose sole skill was memorizing legal rules.

[Okla-homey]

I love this.

It bothers me sometimes that the bridges I drive across were designed by a guy who got a 60% in a civil engineering course.



It should bother you more that those bridges were built by the lowest bidder.

[yermom]

or the guy with the most powerful uncle/FiL?

[Frozen Sooner]

It should bother you more that those bridges were built by the lowest bidder.

That too.

[Soonermagik]

I work in the legal realm. I'm telling you that the economy tied to lawyers is really bad right now. If fact, I know several graduates from last class that were ranked high in their class and can't find a job. Three of them aren't practicing law at all. One guy actually started a catering business lol.

I know another good friend who lived temporarily in Austin, Dallas, Houston and San Antonio trying to find a job in any legal practice. He was also tops in his class. He took the Texas bar first, but he was forced to come back to OK to take a low paying job. I know what you're saying about there being a flooded market of lawyers. It's not just bad in Oklahoma, but it's bad all over.

I'm not trying to discourage you, just trying to give an honest view of what I have seen. I'm hoping the economy will recover in the next year or two.

[yermom]

something tells me Froze will do okay

[Okla-homey]

something tells me Froze will do okay

He has "life experience," unlike the vast majority of new law grads who do the bachelors straignt to JD thing.

I'd consider the general counsel's office of a financial institution 'twer I in his shoes. Law firms just aren't hiring nowadays.

[Frozen Sooner]

I'll consider it, but as of right now I'm doing the firm thing. We'll see how this summer goes.

[badger]

He has "life experience," unlike the vast majority of new law grads who do the bachelors straignt to JD thing

It's a curse that some students have - they just have to continue being students for as long as possible.

I don't miss exams or endless grade pressure. Do miss football and basketball though.

[Leroy Lizard]

heh. Cohn retired right after I came in. He was teaching Goldstein then, and luckily I didn't have to take it from him. From what I was told, it was possible to wind up with a negative score on his tests.

Cohn+Jackson would be the devil.

The Devil would only get about a 15% on one of Cohn's tests.

I just remember dodging erasers. (If you made a mistake on the board, he threw an eraser at you.) Our homework load in that one class was well over 50 hours per week. And no, I enjoyed none of it.

One time I was at the board presenting my answer to some butt-hard problem involving Green's functions. I'm about halfway through, and he walks up and just ****ing erases everything on the board. And I'm like, "WTF?"