30 for 30 SMU Pony Excess on ESPN Right Now

[sooner59]

Looks good. Waiting for a Craig James sighting.

[OU-HSV]

Didn't take long for the Craig James sighting...within what, 30 seconds of the first bit of the show there was an old school Craig James talking. I'm interested in watching this whole episode because I was pretty much too young back then to know what all happened.

[instigator]

Been waiting for this one. :)

[Soonerfan88]

Just remember James is a liar and a doosh.

[sooner59]

This came on immediately after Cam Newton was named Heisman Trophy winner. Heh. :D

[oumartin]

I hate SMU now, dickerson wanted to play at OU :(

[instigator]

This came on immediately after Cam Newton was named Heisman Trophy winner. Heh. :D

Interesting.

[StoopTroup]

So tamu was as bad as every school in tejas....lol

[Leroy Lizard]

Didn't take long for the Craig James sighting...within what, 30 seconds of the first bit of the show there was an old school Craig James talking.

Since he was half of the Pony Express... yeah, I would expect a Craig James sighting.

[StoopTroup]

Al Micheal's Fro was teh awesome

[OU-HSV]

Since he was half of the Pony Express... yeah, I would expect a Craig James sighting.

True (good point) :D

[OU-HSV]

This came on immediately after Cam Newton was named Heisman Trophy winner. Heh. :D

You know what else I found pretty funny is that Florida basically announced their new coach smack dab in the middle of the Heisman ceremony. I doubt it was planned, but it kinda struck me as "screw you Auburn, we're going to interrupt the bottom line w/our own breaking news"

[StoopTroup]

Craig James should have been put in a shed.

[OU-HSV]

Just remember James is a liar and a doosh.

I already knew this via the Leach situation. I think Craig James is a slimeball p.o.s.

[oudavid1]

Just remember James is a liar and a doosh.


Craig James should have been put in a shed.

Team Leach!

[StoopTroup]

....and they wonder why they lose kids to schools outside tejas.

This really ought to remind folks of why they need to be careful when dealing with :texan: and their kids future/education. Anyone who thinks folks in that state have learned their lesson is crazier than happy clappy :mack:

[oudavid1]

the line ive heard the most, "i hate Texas"

love it.

[3rdgensooner]

This whole show is so prototypical Texas.

[oudavid1]

To bad OU didnt get Dickerson, man we would have been good.

thats a joke, we were awesome!

[BajaOklahoma]

I didn't bother watching it after I read that they (ESPN) basically whitewashed James' part in the mess.
Gotta love revisionist history.

[OUstud]

Dan Beebe would be an NCAA narc...

[oudavid1]

I didn't bother watching it after I read that they (ESPN) basically whitewashed James' part in the mess.
Gotta love revisionist history.

i really dont like Craig


Dan Beebe would be an NCAA narc...

haha this is funny.

[sooner59]

Yeah, I LOL'd when I saw Beebe was a NCAA investigator.

[OUstud]

Paraphrasing Craig: "I looked at this '89 squad like, who are these imposters?"

It was partially his fault! What a horse's ***.

[Leroy Lizard]

I didn't bother watching it after I read that they (ESPN) basically whitewashed James' part in the mess.
Gotta love revisionist history.

What part of the mess was he involved in? I can't find a shred of evidence that he had any role in the NCAA investigation. So are the expected to just make some up?

Not saying he's clean, but you have to base your stories on actual facts. (Well, you don't HAVE to, but it's a good idea.)

[sooner59]

Several pics of Heupel and Owen Field flashed at the end of that 30 for 30. WTF? Heupel was sure highly recruited out of Aberdeen, SD. Heh.

[Sooner_Tuf]

What part of the mess was he involved in? I can't find a shred of evidence that he had any role in the NCAA investigation. So are the expected to just make some up?

Not saying he's clean, but you have to base your stories on actual facts. (Well, you don't HAVE to, but it's a good idea.)

Other being paid to go to SMU? Paid to play? Had knowledge of others being paid as well?

They pretty much glossed over the fact he had offers from from schools that you don't normally pass up to go to SMU. That is what really drew attention to SMU. The sheer number of great players signing with SMU all at one time.

They also just completely glossed over the fact TCU is also located in Dallas and they were very careful to not ever name Texas as a player. That is what SMU did that upset the balance of the SWC. They outbid Texas and aTm for a lot of the better talent in the state of Texas.

[Soonerfan88]

Leroy, James admitted in his own book "Game Day" that he received money while at SMU. His caveat was that "no benefits were ever extended to me from anyone associated with the SMU administration." Of course not, the money was given to him by Sherwood Blount, who had already been banned from connection to the university during the first investigation. Blount was found during the 2nd investigation to still be in charge of the slush fund used to pay the players. BTW, James not only 'worked' for Blount's real estate firm during the off-season but Blount became his agent when he went pro.


Nope, you obviously can't find a shred of evidence that he was involved. :rolleyes:

[Sooner in the Bluegrass]

The one part of the doc that really felt pandering to me was that sequence with the sort of split narrative between the recruiting of Dickerson and the recruiting of James. There were several shots of Dickerson's gold Trans-Am (downpayment allegedly provided by aTm, though it was admitted that SMU then took care of the rest of the payments once he signed with SMU), interspersed with James being an all whitebread, aw shucks golden-boy. While we're led to conclude Dickerson was unapologetically following the money, apparently James' recruitment hinged solely on his girlfriend. Why, James was so concerned about SMU improprieties that the coach felt compelled to call the NCAA office in KC to reassure him that the program was clean!:rolleyes: There was just so little journalistic balance there, IMO. At the very least have someone flat out ask James if he received any incentives to sign with SMU. There seemed to be no interest in pursuing the question at all.

And maybe he was squeaky clean, but it seems downright miraculous given the repeated mentions of this booster and that booster and what they were known to have done or promised, plus the constant refrain of "everyone else does it"-- especially the teams in the SWC, apparently. How much sense does it make that James would have never taken anything? There's guys on the team who have frickin' contracts to get paid by the school, and here's James, a starting RB and one of the star players in the midst of all of this, and he seriously never took a single dime? When they were throwing money at guys like the OL who had torn up his knee and never even saw the field?

Sure, maybe he was clean--the worst, most boneheaded violations seemed to have occurred later after Collins became the HC, well after James was already in the fold. And maybe everything about his recruitment was entirely inocuous, but I find that difficult to believe.*

*Which isn't to say I think James is/was "dirty," per se, but I can't help but think the doc would have been slightly different if James wasn't employed by the network that aired it.

ETA-- Soonerfan88 makes the second 'graph moot, but my complaints with what aired are still valid (I hope)

[Eielson]

Several pics of Heupel and Owen Field flashed at the end of that 30 for 30. WTF? Heupel was sure highly recruited out of Aberdeen, SD. Heh.

Yeah, I don't get that. Why weren't they showing Bomar?

[Leroy Lizard]

Other being paid to go to SMU? Paid to play? Had knowledge of others being paid as well?

I haven't found any substantiation for any of those claims.

Not saying they're untrue, but if you are going to wave that around on a tv show you had better have something solid to back it. I've found nothing, and every time I've asked in here no one has provided anything.


They pretty much glossed over the fact he had offers from from schools that you don't normally pass up to go to SMU.

Perhaps because his girlfriend and future wife was already at SMU? Let's just completely ignore that fact. :rolleyes:

[Leroy Lizard]

Leroy, James admitted in his own book "Game Day" that he received money while at SMU. His caveat was that "no benefits were ever extended to me from anyone associated with the SMU administration." Of course not, the money was given to him by Sherwood Blount, who had already been banned from connection to the university during the first investigation.

Pray tell how this admits he was paid? Telling people you were not paid by the administration is not admitting that you were paid by others.


Blount was found during the 2nd investigation to still be in charge of the slush fund used to pay the players. BTW, James not only 'worked' for Blount's real estate firm during the off-season but Blount became his agent when he went pro.

Nope, you obviously can't find a shred of evidence that he was involved. :rolleyes:

What did Craig say in his book about his work with Blount?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

They also just completely glossed over the fact TCU is also located in Dallas and they were very careful to not ever name Texas as a player. That is what SMU did that upset the balance of the SWC. They outbid Texas and aTm for a lot of the better talent in the state of Texas.You had to like it when Dickerson said that a cows' recruiter told Dickerson that if he didn't sign with the cows', said cows had the power to make sure he never could get a job in the state of tx, or something like that. Dickerson also said on the show that he hated tx for doing that.

[sooner59]

Pray tell how this admits he was paid? Telling people you were not paid by the administration is not admitting that you were paid by others.



What did Craig say in his book about his work with Blount?

Well, that's not how he said it. He said that James DID receive benefits while at SMU. However, he just wouldn't admit that those benefits were from the administration. I could have been reading it wrong though.

[Leroy Lizard]

Well, that's not how he said it. He said that James DID receive benefits while at SMU. However, he just wouldn't admit that those benefits were from the administration. I could have been reading it wrong though.

What did he actually say in the book?

[sooner59]

I don't know. I didn't read it. I was just analyzing what Soonerfan88 was saying. I won't confess to knowing anything about his book or what he actually said.

[BajaOklahoma]

What did he actually say in the book?

I don't have the book to quote from, but I did read it when it came out. It directly contributed to my opinion of him.

[Leroy Lizard]

I'm gaining the impression that there isn't much out there.

I would not be surprised if he took money while at SMU. But I certainly would not insinuate he did with the scant evidence available. All we have are statements from Craig James from his book, which don't admit to much of anything, and for which we're really not sure what he said.

Another way to put it: We have no problem just going ahead and labeling Craig James a crook while at the same time giving a Heisman Trophy to Cam Newton. There is a helluva lot more evidence that Cam was on the take than Craig James.

[sooner59]

Because I am not naive, I am going to go ahead and assume Craig James is as guilty as the ones who were caught and exposed. And it made me sick to watch the Heisman ceremony, because I have 0% doubt that Cam Newton knew what was going on. He WAS the best player in college football, but he should not be eligible. Anybody without blinders sees it. He knew what was going on.

[Leroy Lizard]

Because I am not naive, I am going to go ahead and assume Craig James is as guilty as the ones who were caught and exposed.

That brings up an interesting question: Why was Craig James not caught and exposed?

[sooner59]

That brings up an interesting question: Why was Craig James not caught and exposed?

Don't know, don't care. When associated with that SMU program, he is guilty until proven innocent in my book. I am not the U.S. courts, so I don't have to justify my opinion, though. Just my opinion. He could be innocent. I just don't believe he is. I am entitled to my opinion, and he is entitled to ESPN's resources and pull...not to mention salary. And his son is entitled to Vagisil and Midol.

[Leroy Lizard]

Don't know, don't care. When associated with that SMU program, he is guilty until proven innocent in my book. I am not the U.S. courts, so I don't have to justify my opinion, though.

Sure, but then if I decide to declare Craig James innocent you really can't say much. "He's innocent because I say he is."

[SoonerDood]

When I was very young I heard my uncles talking about how "Craig James took a pay cut when he joined the Patriots." That was waaaaay before he was gainfully employed at CBS/ABC/ESPN/ wherever the heck he first started.

[PLaw]

Leroy, James admitted in his own book "Game Day" that he received money while at SMU. His caveat was that "no benefits were ever extended to me from anyone associated with the SMU administration." Of course not, the money was given to him by Sherwood Blount, who had already been banned from connection to the university during the first investigation. Blount was found during the 2nd investigation to still be in charge of the slush fund used to pay the players. BTW, James not only 'worked' for Blount's real estate firm during the off-season but Blount became his agent when he went pro.


Nope, you obviously can't find a shred of evidence that he was involved. :rolleyes:

Didn't James and Dickerson say on ESPN this past Friday that all of what occurred that caused SMU to get death happened after they were gone? Maybe so, but they were just as big a part of that culture as those that came behind them. What a tool.

BOOMER

[soonerhubs]

This thread reminds me why ignore is a helpful function. I mean why does someone have to argue every damn thing that's ever discussed? Some sabbaticals are too long IMHO.

[texaspokieokie]

Didn't James and Dickerson say on ESPN this past Friday that all of what occurred that caused SMU to get death happened after they were gone? Maybe so, but they were just as big a part of that culture as those that came behind them. What a tool.

BOOMER

the "death penalty" was invoked because smu continued doing whatever they were doing to be on probation in the 1st place.

the 1st probation was due to paying players during time of the "pony excess".

did i just repeat what you said ??

[PLaw]

the "death penalty" was invoked because smu continued doing whatever they were doing to be on probation in the 1st place.

the 1st probation was due to paying players during time of the "pony excess".

did i just repeat what you said ??

Yeah, it was just hilarious with James and Dickerson on the set and both basically proclaiming they were innocent of any wrong doing and it was others that caused the problem.

I lived through the SWC melt-down - got to see the Pony Express first hand.

TCU got nailed for hooking up recruits with call girls.

Tech got nailed for buying a SA kid a pair of boots.

A&M, Houston, Baylor also penalized.

And yes, * even got their wrist slapped.

And Craig James is still a tool.

BOOMER

[loozianna sooner]

Let's not throw too many stones here. If we were competing with the SW conference for recruits I'm sure we brought our wallets along. Heck didn't we buy Marcus Dupree's mom a double-wide?

[picasso]

Let's not throw too many stones here. If we were competing with the SW conference for recruits I'm sure we brought our wallets along. Heck didn't we buy Marcus Dupree's mom a double-wide?

That was probably Switzer and it was after we'd already gotten him on campus.
Yeah, we helped some guys out, but we didn't need to buy recruits. We sold them on the idea of being on a top 5 team and all the shiny hardware that went along with it.
Again I'll say, oSu beat OU out on a big time recruit from my high school in '83 who ended up driving a new Z-28 after signing.
His Dad later told me that Switz wanted him to play FB at OU.

[Eielson]

I'm gaining the impression that there isn't much out there.

I would not be surprised if he took money while at SMU. But I certainly would not insinuate he did with the scant evidence available.

Let's end this crap with a quote from his book.


I’m not going to sit here and tell you I never received a nickel during my playing days.

As if his close association with Sherwood Blount wasn't enough, this confession confirms it. He went on to say that he didn't receive any benefits from anyone associated with SMU administration. I guess he doesn't think Blount was associated with SMU administration.

[XingTheRubicon]

Leroy, I guess you can STFU now.

You've been wrong on this Leach v James thing from the get-go and you're just riding that tidal wave of fail to the bitter end.

[BajaOklahoma]

I'm gaining the impression that there isn't much out there.

I would not be surprised if he took money while at SMU. But I certainly would not insinuate he did with the scant evidence available. All we have are statements from Craig James from his book, which don't admit to much of anything, and for which we're really not sure what he said.

Another way to put it: We have no problem just going ahead and labeling Craig James a crook while at the same time giving a Heisman Trophy to Cam Newton. There is a helluva lot more evidence that Cam was on the take than Craig James.

Interesting how you know what is in the book, without ever having read it. Once you actually read the book, this post might have value.

[texaspokieokie]

Leroy tries to use what he thinks is logic, on this board where logic means nothing.

[PLaw]

One thing to remember about James is that he didn't need anything under the table. Craig played at Houston Memorial HS which at that time was (and I assume still is) a very affluent area. I had frat brothers from Memorial and they were all driving new sports cars provided by mommy and daddy.

Dickerson, on the other hand showed up on the hill top driving a maroon T/A and a blue Monte Carlo with a white landau.

BOOMER

[bluedogok]

Let's not throw too many stones here. If we were competing with the SW conference for recruits I'm sure we brought our wallets along. Heck didn't we buy Marcus Dupree's mom a double-wide?
I'm guessing that you didn't watch the Marcus Dupree 30 for 30 when he refuted that statement.

I knew someone who was recruited by SMU, he said it was ridiculous what they threw at everyone and was so blatant about it. He ended up at TCU and blew out a knee in two-a-days his freshman year and never played. The fact that they were pretty open about it is what got them in trouble.

Look around for some articles in years past about Craig James, he admits and implies a bit more about what he did at SMU than he does in his book that was written after his ESPN contract. There is another book out there about SMU football from the era that is out of print.
A Payroll to Meet: A Story of Greed, Corruption, and Football at SMU - David Whitford (http://www.amazon.com/Payroll-Meet-Story-Corruption-Football/dp/0026271915/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1292181216&sr=1-1)

[Leroy Lizard]

So what is our opinion of Billy Sims? Keith Jackson? (He admitted that he would receive chump change on occasion.)


Interesting how you know what is in the book, without ever having read it. Once you actually read the book, this post might have value.

My gut feeling is that this confession was lifted completely out of context and that he followed it with a "But..."

Am I right?

Has any star player played for four years at a college and not received anything?


I knew someone who was recruited by SMU...

Screw that.


Look around for some articles in years past about Craig James, he admits and implies a bit more about what he did at SMU than he does in his book that was written after his ESPN contract.

Yet you didn't bother to quote any of it or provide a link. :confused:


There is another book out there about SMU football from the era that is out of print.
A Payroll to Meet: A Story of Greed, Corruption, and Football at SMU - David Whitford

So what does it say?

This is the damnedest thing I've ever seen. You hunt for evidence; you supposedly find it, but then you don't post it. You just say you found it. WTF?

All we have so far is a quote by Craig James that was almost certainly taken out of context. Yes, it appears that he admits receiving some fringe benefits from time to time, like all other star players on every team in the U.S. (especially in those days). How much did he receive? Was it significant enough to be branded corrupt?


You've been wrong on this Leach v James thing from the get-go

Actually, I haven't been proven wrong on any of that. So far, Leach hasn't won squat.

[OUinFLA]

I enjoyed the coaches comment on the first year team after the penalty.

"We wern't very big, but we were slow".

they made another one about their qb, cant remember it exactly, something like, "our qb can run the 40 in 3 more seconds than their db"
cant remember the exact quote, but it was funny.

[Leroy Lizard]

This thread reminds me why ignore is a helpful function. I mean why does someone have to argue every damn thing that's ever discussed? Some sabbaticals are too long IMHO.

I didn't argue it. Someone asked why Craig James wasn't crucified on the 30 for 30 show and I said that you can't do that unless you have amassed enough evidence to back the claim and, that while Craig may have been dirty, the evidence wasn't there. And then the fireworks started.

[TMcGee86]

One thing to remember about James is that he didn't need anything under the table. Craig played at Houston Memorial HS which at that time was (and I assume still is) a very affluent area. I had frat brothers from Memorial and they were all driving new sports cars provided by mommy and daddy.

Dickerson, on the other hand showed up on the hill top driving a maroon T/A and a blue Monte Carlo with a white landau.

BOOMER

James went to Stratford, not Memorial. And Dickerson's TA was gold, not maroon.

[Eielson]

I’m not going to sit here and tell you I never received a nickel during my playing days.

...but Leroy most certainly will for me.

[SoonerinSouthlake]

Another way to put it: We have no problem just going ahead and labeling Craig James a crook while at the same time giving a Heisman Trophy to Cam Newton. There is a helluva lot more evidence that Cam was on the take than Craig James.


cam newton-he MAY really have know nothing about the money. But im not an idiot....so dont believe it.

craig james-he MAY been the ONLY top recruit to choose SMU without taking any money. but Im not an idiot....so I dont believe it

[Leroy Lizard]

...but Leroy most certainly will for me.

Never said he didn't.

[soonerhubs]

This threads reads much better for me if you guys would quit quoting mister "argues compulsively."

[OUinFLA]

This threads reads much better for me if you guys would quit quoting mister "argues compulsively."



Black Toque Link (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Black%20Toque&defid=3510463)

[soonerhubs]

Black Toque Link (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Black%20Toque&defid=3510463)


Heh!!


Someone needs to enter LL as an alternative definition.

[tulsaoilerfan]

Just put him on ignore and ur message board experiences will be so much better

[Soonerfan88]

Eielson quoted the passage of James' admitting he took money. I'm not going to type out the entire page just to satisfy Leroy. If you want to know so badly what the book says, you can buy it on Amazon for under $2. If you want to believe James and Newton are pure as driven snow and being unfairly persecuted, more power to you. I'll continue to think they are lying scum with athletic talent.

Overall, I'm done with this thread and done with Leroy - ignore it is.

[Leroy Lizard]

Eielson quoted the passage of James' admitting he took money. I'm not going to type out the entire page just to satisfy Leroy. If you want to know so badly what the book says, you can buy it on Amazon for under $2.

:rolleyes:


If you want to believe James and Newton are pure as driven snow and being unfairly persecuted, more power to you.

One more time: I never said that.

Again, someone asked why they didn't skewer Craig James on the show. I said that, while Craig James COULD have taken money as a player, there was little or no evidence to back it.

[soonerhubs]

Eielson quoted the passage of James' admitting he took money. I'm not going to type out the entire page just to satisfy Leroy. If you want to know so badly what the book says, you can buy it on Amazon for under $2. If you want to believe James and Newton are pure as driven snow and being unfairly persecuted, more power to you. I'll continue to think they are lying scum with athletic talent.

Overall, I'm done with this thread and done with Leroy - ignore it is.

Welcome to the club. It's growing daily.

[Eielson]

Again, someone asked why they didn't skewer Craig James on the show. I said that, while Craig James COULD have taken money as a player, there was little or no evidence to back it.

Other than the fact that he admitted it. :rolleyes:

[/discussion]

[Leroy Lizard]

Other than the fact that he admitted it. :rolleyes:


What he admitted to amounts to nothing more than what any other star player received during that time, no matter what team he played on. If you want to blast Craig James for admitting that he received something, what do you think of Billy Sims? Was he crooked?

[picasso]

What he admitted to amounts to nothing more than what any other star player received during that time, no matter what team he played on. If you want to blast Craig James for admitting that he received something, what do you think of Billy Sims? Was he crooked?

Billy Sims' school didn't get the death penalty. Nor does Sims opine on TV every weekend about college football.
Sims also didn't bring down a college coach along with his son and then preach on and on about ethical behavior whilst opining on said tellie all the while apparently dismissing his own unethical behavior and so on.

Keep hitting your head on the wall, troll lizard person.

[XingTheRubicon]

What he admitted to amounts to nothing more than what any other star player received during that time, no matter what team he played on. If you want to blast Craig James for admitting that he received something, what do you think of Billy Sims? Was he crooked?


LL - There's no proof he took anything.

rest of Earth - Here's the proof.

LL - All the star players took that.

rest of Earth - We're sorry your parents made a wrong machine.

[OULenexaman]

I thought the show was awesome.....and I thought there would be some good discussion in this thread about it..sheesh!!...times have changed here.

[soonerhubs]

LL - There's no proof he took anything.

rest of Earth - Here's the proof.

LL - All the star players took that.

rest of Earth - We're sorry your parents made a wrong machine.

Heheheh! That's worthy of more Hehs, but I didn't want to get to carried away. I figured the more Hehs the more room for someone to find a way to argue against them. :D

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I just watched it myself last night..

I think what people fail to realize about SMU getting the DP is that they were given so many opportunities to stop what they were doing. I talked several years ago to someone involved in the investigation and he said what pushed it over the edge was the boosters being so arrogant about their gifts..They really didn't do anything to hide what they were doing. He said SMU treated us like the parent who threatens to whip their kid but never does..

And with all the boosters being shown last night, there was still an attitude like "Yeah, we did it and would do it again." Their smugness and grinning while talking about what they did..

[picasso]

I thought the show was awesome.....and I thought there would be some good discussion in this thread about it..sheesh!!...times have changed here.

Too many trolls around here these days who seem to have no purpose in life.

[royalfan5]

I enjoyed it but not as much as I thought I might. I think the trailer set the bar too high.

[sooneron]

What's a life?

[sooneron]

I need to see the whole show. I've only seen the last hour. Not enough of dickhead CJ. Or maybe, that's a good thing.

[Soonerwake]

I thought the show was awesome.....and I thought there would be some good discussion in this thread about it..sheesh!!...times have changed here.

No kidding. Four pages of "Craig James is/isn't a liar"..

So, is it pretty much a given that this type of behavior was the norm during those days in big-time college football?? I know what I saw around Norman from 1986-1990. I saw alot of nice cars, especially Nissans... :D

[OULenexaman]

No kidding. Four pages of "Craig James is/isn't a liar"..

So, is it pretty much a given that this type of behavior was the norm during those days in big-time college football?? I know what I saw around Norman from 1986-1990. I saw alot of nice cars, especially Nissans... :D

It was in the SWC. :D I just so happened to have been an F&I Manager for a Nissan dealership from 86 to 90. When floor plan checks were being done many players and Barry himself would swing by with their "Demos" or "service loaners" to have the VIN verified.;)

[OUmillenium]

I watched the 1st hour and thought it was great. They definitely tried to make CJ whitewashed. Everybody with a clue knows he was on the take.

Loved the highlights. I was only 8-10 yrs old during the Dickerson days so I don't remember any of it. Just remember the death penalty references in the mid to late 80s. And Hacksaw Jim Duggan wearing his SMU helmet on MidSouth.

I really enjoyed all the media guys and the head coach interviews. Cool reference to JR Ewing and the Dallas show.

I also loved the "I hate Texass" talk, hilarious. Seemed like Texass got a bit of the whitewash treatment as well.

Seemed to overhype the SWC as the best conference in football but like I said, I didn't follow all of college football as an 8 yr old.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I need to see the whole show. I've only seen the last hour. Not enough of dickhead CJ. Or maybe, that's a good thing.

I think ESPN brass pretty much dictated most of the CJ information that came out of that show...

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I what I didn't realize is how much the SMU DP had to do with the SWC disbanding...

[OULenexaman]

I what I didn't realize is how much the SMU DP had to do with the SWC disbanding...

It put that train in motion.....ALL ABOARD!! Last Call!!:texan:

[badger]

Listening to Craig James at SMU videos, it was like "awww, apple didn't fall far from the tree." Adam James is every bit as d00shy as his daddy was, except without the football talent, hehe.

Makes you wonder... why didn't Adam go to SMU? Oh yeah, because everyone besides Leroy knows that he was part of the Pony Excess that was featured on 30 for 30 and didn't want to associate with that family anymore.

[virginiasooner]

I what I didn't realize is how much the SMU DP had to do with the SWC disbanding...

The SMU death penalty is what drove the SWC into the ditch. That was my second favorite episode of the series (three guesses on No. 1). I thought it was cute that Bear Bryant, in his attempt to recruit Craig James, tried to get his girlfriend to transfer to Alabama. I had forgotten how totally gorgeous Craig James was back in 1979 -- and he still is, pushing 50. I thought the montage at the end was a gratuitous shot -- with the newscaster voiceover of dirty football programs, and showing not one, but two shots of Owen Field. Don't recall them showing the Colliseum, or Reggie Bush!

[Leroy Lizard]

I'll try to post my responses in a single post.



Billy Sims' school didn't get the death penalty. .

SMU didn't get the death penalty on account of Craig James. If Craig had never attended SMU the school would still have been punished by the NCAA and just as severely.

And the fact that the NCAA didn't find out about Billy Sims' fringe benefits also had a lot to do with it.

But you never did really answer the question: If Craig James is corrupt because he received something he shouldn't have, is Billy Sims? This is about the person's character, not the punishment handed out by the NCAA.



LL - There's no proof he took anything.

rest of Earth - Here's the proof. [Well, there was no proof, just recollections of people who supposedly read a book that they conveniently no longer have in their possession.]

LL - All the star players took that.

rest of Earth - We're sorry your parents made a wrong machine.

Again, is Billy Sims corrupt because he took advantage of fringe benefits while playing for OU?

You should be able to answer yes or no. If no, kindly explain the difference between Craig James and Billy Sims.

Now, if we have evidence that Craig was taking huge amounts of money, rather than just chump change like Sims, that would be a difference. Did he?

Again, there is no need to get personal about this. I can understand if Craig James was one of your personal friends, but he's just a former football player and tv personality.

It comes down to this: Craig James, because of the Leach love affair in here and some of his on-air comments, is widely hated. Therefore, we love to assume the worst in him. And anyone that dares defend him is going to get attacked on a personal level. Essentially, most of you are doing to Craig James what Horn fans love doing to Marcus Dupree.

[soonersam]

I FOUND IT FUNNY HOW THEY TRIED TO SELL THE SMU PROGRAM LIKE IT WAS SO RICH IN TRADITION BEFORE THE DEATH PENALTY! 2 GOOD SEASONS IN 30 YEARS ISNT A DYNASTY

[MeMyself&Me]

Just put him on ignore and ur message board experiences will be so much better

I've had him on ignore for a long LONG time but it doesn't work too well when people quote him all the time. A lot of noobs around that haven't figured him out yet.


I thought the show was awesome.....and I thought there would be some good discussion in this thread about it..sheesh!!...times have changed here.

Same here. Just got a chance to watch it off of the DVR having put off hitting this thread. The show was good, this thread, not so much. But I'll try to get it back on track.


I was young when this occurred but should have been able to remember it. I'd always heard of the SMU death penalty and knew nothing about it. Was shocked a few years ago to find out it happened in the late '80s. Can't believe I missed it actually happening so I was excited that this documentary was being done to catch me up to speed.

First, I'm big on video quality. Calibrate my TV and speakers and such to maximize what they can offer. This show was hard to watch due to the source video contrast being turned up so ****ing high. I'm sure that the directer did this on purpose for some reason but I hated it. HATED it.

Second, I was disappointed in the whitewashed portrayal of Craig James. I mean, come on... really? It was obvious to me and I didn't even know the story ahead of time.

Third, it appeared that the producer appeared to want to avoid depicting Tejas as involved with the improper actions of the time. Whenever they'd list off what teams did this and that, it almost appeared they'd list off all the teams in the SWC but Tejas. However, at least when the interviewees bashed Tejas, they let that fly. Also, they showed that Tejas was one of the few schools that voted against the Death Penalty which is a bit interesting. Oh, and there was that newspaper article they showed that had Tejas on probation or losing schollys or something. Garsh, thought Tejas never did anything wrong. Then Dickerson being bullied by a recruiter... I've heard of Tejas doing that too but I always thought it was an exaggeration.

Fourth, I don't think they ever did anything that made OU look bad. They referenced that Dickerson wanted to go to OU but didn't cause other schools were paying him. Then there was the montoge (spelling?) at the end that showed OU quite a bit but I didn't take that as a shot at OU. Just an image of great football programs in general. All the audio bits during that segment were about other programs and not many people would be paying enough attention to that segment to notice anything (it was for credits at the end).

After all that, I enjoyed this 30 for 30 more than any others. Even more than the the Best that Never Was. There were times I was sitting on the edge of my seat waiting for what was coming next and times I kept hitting the replay button thinking "did he just say that?" and wanting catch some headline or such. I don't usually do those kinds of things unless I'm really into the show.

Anybody else seem to make the connection with what June Jones is doing now to what Stoops did for OU when he took over. Inviting all the old people back, regardless of past history? Thought that was cool. It's been long enough. They're not even in a good non-aq conference now. It's time they let go of all that and move forward.

[picasso]

I'll try to post my responses in a single post.




SMU didn't get the death penalty on account of Craig James. If Craig had never attended SMU the school would still have been punished by the NCAA and just as severely.

And the fact that the NCAA didn't find out about Billy Sims' fringe benefits also had a lot to do with it.

But you never did really answer the question: If Craig James is corrupt because he received something he shouldn't have, is Billy Sims? This is about the person's character, not the punishment handed out by the NCAA.



Again, is Billy Sims corrupt because he took advantage of fringe benefits while playing for OU?

You should be able to answer yes or no. If no, kindly explain the difference between Craig James and Billy Sims.

Now, if we have evidence that Craig was taking huge amounts of money, rather than just chump change like Sims, that would be a difference. Did he?

Again, there is no need to get personal about this. I can understand if Craig James was one of your personal friends, but he's just a former football player and tv personality.

It comes down to this: Craig James, because of the Leach love affair in here and some of his on-air comments, is widely hated. Therefore, we love to assume the worst in him. And anyone that dares defend him is going to get attacked on a personal level. Essentially, most of you are doing to Craig James what Horn fans love doing to Marcus Dupree.

I never said James was the sole reason they got the death penalty.

I'm also not much for answering any of your questions. Or even reading them for the most part.

[Soonerfan88]

Also, Sherwood Blount was a huge booster & the main cash man the entire time. After the 1st investigation, SMU supposedly disassociated from him. But when the NCAA came back, Blount was still holding the slush fund - yet another show of arrogance that lead to the death penalty.


Read somewhere that Blount was the only person asked that would not appear on the show or even speak with the producers.

[Leroy Lizard]

I never said James was the sole reason they got the death penalty.

I'm also not much for answering any of your questions.

Not too surprising.

[IGotNoTiming]

Every major college team was buying players... it was the only way to stay competitive. I remember walking around campus and seeing the brand new black corvette that said "BOZ" on the plates. TEXAS did it OU did it..... Miami started doing it and whaddya know they became relevant.... same with FLA, Fla St, all in an effort to win.....
SMU had been warned repeatedly by the NCAA, and the NCAA simply got fed up with the university sticking it's tongue out....
I guess that was one of my only gripes with Barry was the fact that just a few years earlier the NCAA set a precedent that they would not tolerate a renegade program and merely 5 years after the SMU debacle, we imploded...

[texaspokieokie]

i've heard that bosworth had a vette in hi-school.

he wasn't that highly recruited, no school would buy him a car that expensive. JMHO

(i think vettes cost about 20k in those days)

[XingTheRubicon]

Every major college team was buying players... it was the only way to stay competitive. I remember walking around campus and seeing the brand new black corvette that said "BOZ" on the plates. TEXAS did it OU did it..... Miami started doing it and whaddya know they became relevant.... same with FLA, Fla St, all in an effort to win.....
SMU had been warned repeatedly by the NCAA, and the NCAA simply got fed up with the university sticking it's tongue out....
I guess that was one of my only gripes with Barry was the fact that just a few years earlier the NCAA set a precedent that they would not tolerate a renegade program and merely 5 years after the SMU debacle, we imploded...

Boz had a vette before anyone was recruiting him in high school, his family was upper middle class.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

looks like some of you need to read boz's book...

[texaspokieokie]

looks like some of you need to read boz's book...

looks like you need to read the chapter pertaining to the "boz",in Barry's
book.

[pphilfran]

I never said James was the sole reason they got the death penalty.

I'm also not much for answering any of your questions. Or even reading them for the most part.

Why not? Simple questions....

[sooneron]

I thought Boz got the vette from working at the GM plant during the summer.

[texaspokieokie]

I thought Boz got the vette from working at the GM plant during the summer.

needs emoticon.
i thot it was ford.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

looks like you need to read the chapter pertaining to the "boz",in Barry's
book.

wasn't referring to you unless you think he was given the car by the school...and i've read the book several times..

thanks though.

[sooneron]

needs emoticon.
i thot it was ford.

Pretty sure there was never a Ford plant in the okc area.

[texaspokieokie]

Pretty sure there was never a Ford plant in the okc area.

was in dallas, but i think it was gone before the 80s.

somehow, i was thinking KC.

[texaspokieokie]

wasn't referring to you unless you think he was given the car by the school...and i've read the book several times..

thanks though.

oops, thot i was included !!

i think his dad Foster Bosworth (recently deceased,i think) probably bought or @ least helped with purchase of vette.

[pphilfran]

was in dallas, but i think it was gone before the 80s.

somehow, i was thinking KC.

Arlington...still operating...opened in the early 50's...

[sooneron]

Ok, does anyone know where the **** boz spent his summers?

[texaspokieokie]

Pretty sure there was never a Ford plant in the okc area.

well, vettes were never built in okc.

st.louis or bowling green.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I thought Boz got the vette from working at the GM plant during the summer.

No, but he did receive quite the nice salary for very minimal work

[texaspokieokie]

Arlington...still operating...opened in the early 50's...

incredibly stupid on my part. i used to live on Park Row in arlington,not far from the gm plant.

was the baby of "Mr. Arlington", Tommy Vandergriff !!!!

also brot rangers to arlington.

[bluedogok]

Boz had a vette before anyone was recruiting him in high school, his family was upper middle class.
He was a Las Colinas brat and his parents had money well before Brian was ever thought of being a football recruit, his dad was into Porsche's.

[cjames317]

To bad OU didnt get Dickerson, man we would have been good.

thats a joke, we were awesome!

If Dickerson wanted to come to OU, why didn't he? Somebody call the King!

[sooner59]

If Dickerson wanted to come to OU, why didn't he? Somebody call the King!

SMU out-bid us.

[Leroy Lizard]

Boz had a vette before anyone was recruiting him in high school, his family was upper middle class.

Wasn't also Craig James' family?

[cleller]

Wasn't also Craig James' family?


If Craig James were to put on a blindfold, climb a ladder, and drop an apple, would it hit the ground?

By "ground" I mean the surface of the earth, in proximity to the ladder in this equation.;)

[Eielson]

If Craig James were to put on a blindfold, climb a ladder, and drop an apple, would it hit the ground?

By "ground" I mean the surface of the earth, in proximity to the ladder in this equation.;)

Well, you see, the atoms of one object can never touch the atoms of another. Therefore, the apple will never truly touch the ground.

[loozianna sooner]

That was probably Switzer and it was after we'd already gotten him on campus.
Yeah, we helped some guys out, but we didn't need to buy recruits. We sold them on the idea of being on a top 5 team and all the shiny hardware that went along with it.
Again I'll say, oSu beat OU out on a big time recruit from my high school in '83 who ended up driving a new Z-28 after signing.
His Dad later told me that Switz wanted him to play FB at OU.
A fine line between helping a guy out and buying recruits.