900 Billion Dollars

[OnlyOneOklahoma]

That is what the two year tax cut extension is going to cost us. I am pretty left leaning but I do see some merit in the right-wing ideology. I also think John Boehner is going to be the best speaker in my political memory.

But all this talk from the Right about "an adult conversation about the deficit" seems to be for naught, when people start talking money.

I am mad at Obama today for caving in on these tax cuts, clearly the Republicans won and there was no compromise whatsoever on their part.

I will be shocked if DADT gets passed, any other ideologically liberal laws are made while Obama is in office.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

That is what the two year tax cut extension is going to cost us. I am pretty left leaning but I do see some merit in the right-wing ideology. I also think John Boehner is going to be the best speaker in my political memory.

But all this talk from the Right about "an adult conversation about the deficit" seems to be for naught, when people start talking money.

I am mad at Obama today for caving in on these tax cuts, clearly the Republicans won and there was no compromise whatsoever on their part.

I will be shocked if DADT gets passed, any other ideologically liberal laws are made while Obama is in office.

I agree the pubs won, the nominal compromise was them agreeing to extend unemployment benefits.

It's loud and clear neither party is serious about deficit reduction.

[OnlyOneOklahoma]

I should have mentioned that small compromise on the Republicans part. I don't even agree with it and I vote Dem quite often. Extending unemployment is stupid and costly.

[OnlyOneOklahoma]

I just realized that 900 Billion is more than the Bush stimulus that Obama passed. How are Republicans not getting crucified for adding this kind of money to the deficit?

[olevetonahill]

I should have mentioned that small compromise on the Republicans part. I don't even agree with it and I vote Dem quite often. Extending unemployment is stupid and costly.

I guess you could say this if you are employed, But some I know who have been out of work are still out of work thru no fault of their own.

[OklahomaTuba]

That is what the two year tax cut extension is going to cost us.

Letting people keep their own money isn't "a cost".

And why is a liberal all of a sudden so worried about how much we're spending??

[OklahomaTuba]

I just realized that 900 Billion is more than the Bush stimulus that Obama passed. How are Republicans not getting crucified for adding this kind of money to the deficit?Cause Obumblefuc spent that last night at dinner.

[OnlyOneOklahoma]

Dang dude there is no pleasing you. All my neg speks come from you :(

I thought surely this time I would get a green for posting a Republican talking point.

I am fortunate to have survived the recession without losing a job. I even changed jobs once, but two years of unemployment benefits seems a bit too much.

[yermom]

Letting people keep their own money isn't "a cost".

And why is a liberal all of a sudden so worried about how much we're spending??

we're just going to miracle money to pay down the deficit aren't we :D

[OklahomaTuba]

we're just going to miracle money to pay down the deficit aren't we :DSeems as though the fed has that part covered these days. Lord knows we can't even print money now without ****ing it up.

[olevetonahill]

we're just going to miracle money to pay down the deficit aren't we :D

Naw Obama even ****ed that up :D

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148859

[OnlyOneOklahoma]

Letting people keep their own money isn't "a cost".

And why is a liberal all of a sudden so worried about how much we're spending??

being liberal does not mean I cannot be concerned about the future of our country. And right now the deficit is out of control. Everyone has to tighten up, while we right the deficit dragon. We staved off depression, time to get our budget under control. It can be done while preserving social programs, but cuts have to be made for those too.

[yermom]

think of the poor upper class though. haven't the suffered enough?

[OklahomaTuba]

Everyone has to tighten up, while we right the deficit dragon.Hate to break it to you, but everyone has tightened up already.

Well everyone except the fed. government that is.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_djgssszshgM/SZPopHu6GEI/AAAAAAAAAzg/R5LBzirmy4s/s400/budget+deficit.gif

[Sooner5030]

points:

1.lowering taxes and increasing spending is the wrong direction when you are trying to balance a budget

2.boo f'n hoo on the whining about pubs. They are not in charge of anything until January 7th. Right now Ried, Pelosi, Obama and the dems are in control. Just don't pass the bill.

3.If we're gonna raise taxes why not start with the 40 million or so that pay no federal income taxes. It sucks if you're poor but it's not my fault the gubment has been back dooring you additional welfare through the tax system.

4.Back in my econ days I was taught that unemployment "%" consisted of those that were capable of employment, SEEKING employment but unable to get employment. THIS is not possible for 99 weeks. Moveor get a lessor paying job.......no capable person can seek employment for 99 weeks and be unsuccessful.

5. leech society + corporate cronyism = huge deficits

[yermom]

Hate to break it to you, but everyone has tightened up already.

Well everyone except the fed. government that is.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_djgssszshgM/SZPopHu6GEI/AAAAAAAAAzg/R5LBzirmy4s/s400/budget+deficit.gif

you really do want your grandkids to pay for it though, right?

[Caboose]

Letting people keep their own money isn't "a cost".


THIS.

Came here to say the same thing. Self-described "left-leaning" people see not taking your money from you at gunpoint as a "cost" to the government. They think that all money by default belongs to the government. This mind-set is a problem.

[yermom]

Bush gave tax cuts to the people that needed it the least.

we couldn't really afford it then, and still can't the way i see it

[OklahomaTuba]

you really do want your grandkids to pay for it though, right?About as much as I want Obumbles TSA thugs assaulting them and taking pictures of their naked bodies just for the crime of getting on an airplane.

[OklahomaTuba]

Bush gave tax cuts to the people that needed it the least.You mean the people who actually pay taxes shouldn't get a tax cut? Who do you think should get a tax cut then, those who don't actually pay any taxes???

[yermom]

About as much as I want Obumbles TSA thugs assaulting them and taking pictures of their naked bodies just for the crime of getting on an airplane.


i like how you can stay on topic

your timely Oba"insert funny here"ma names keep getting better. repetition is key.

[rekamrettuB]

If the Obama admin is going to raise taxes they dang sure aren't going to do it during the first term.

[yermom]

You mean the people who actually pay taxes shouldn't get a tax cut? Who do you think should get a tax cut then, those who don't actually pay any taxes???

only people making over $200k pay taxes? :confused:

[OklahomaTuba]

i like how you can stay on topic
It's all related, liberals always take. Either they are gonna take your property, or they are gonna take your dignity.

[OnlyOneOklahoma]

About as much as I want Obumbles TSA thugs assaulting them and taking pictures of their naked bodies just for the crime of getting on an airplane.

what kind of answer us this. RED HERRING. This has nothing to do with anything.

Also, raising taxes back to their "natural" state is not taking your money at gun point. You had ten years to put yourself in a better position while crippling our country, time to pay up.

[pphilfran]

The tax cuts won't cost chit... a tenth or two of GDP...

I will pull up the data....the biggest increase in revenue was due to increased cap gains...from a booming stock market....

[OklahomaTuba]

only people making over $200k pay taxes? :confused:No, we're talking about real people here, not government workers and union members.

[OnlyOneOklahoma]

It's all related, liberals always take. Either they are gonna take your property, or they are gonna take your dignity.

here's a hint. TSA was created by the bush administration.

[Caboose]

Bush gave tax cuts to the people that needed it the least.

we couldn't really afford it then, and still can't the way i see it

This is baffling. That would be like me saying I cant afford for you to not give me all of your money. STOP spending more than you have whether you are an individual, a family, or the government. If tax cuts cause tax revenues to be X amount lower, then government should spend X amount less. It isn't hard to understand.

[pphilfran]

My biggest concern is the cut in SS tax rate...down 2%...a program that is already floundering and we reduce revenue further...

[OklahomaTuba]

time to pay up.That's what its all about, cause a community organizer knows how to spend your money better than you do.

ACORN NEEDS MORE CASH!!!!

[yermom]

It's all related, liberals always take. Either they are gonna take your property, or they are gonna take your dignity.

so now republicans are the saviors for human rights?

[XingTheRubicon]

only people making over $200k pay taxes? :confused:


the bottom 50% of US taxpayers, pay 2.9% of the total federal income tax dollars collected


so yeah, pretty much

[OklahomaTuba]

here's a hint. TSA was created by the bush administration.Yeah, and TSA wasn't feeling up children and taking nude photos of everyone until the donks got control of them.

So much for liberals loving privacy.

[OklahomaTuba]

so now republicans are the saviors for human rights?What have liberals ever done for human rights???

[yermom]

the bottom 50% of US taxpayers, pay 2.9% of the total federal income tax dollars collected


so yeah, pretty much

i'm not sure, but something tells me half of the country doesn't make near that amount

[Sooner5030]

If we ended food stamps the lines at Walmart would go faster. I am sick and tired of being behind folks that make two transactions; one for food with their nice gubment provided EBT card and the second transaction with cash for video games and other worthless crap.

[OklahomaTuba]

And since Obama came into office, a lot of people make a lot less!!!

[OnlyOneOklahoma]

That's what its all about, cause a community organizer knows how to spend your money better than you do.

ACORN NEEDS MORE CASH!!!!

another fallacy. Acorn has nothing to do with this.

I am simply saying that taxes are too low and we are subsidizing them by borrowing from China. Spending is ohut of control as well, we have to raise taxes and curb spending to get out of this crisis. Borrowing money from China to keep the rich happy does nothing to address the deficit.

[soonercoop1]

Kind of stupid to give those addicts more money in DC when they refuse to drastically cut the federal government at all...any increase in taxes is worthless until that occurs...

[OklahomaTuba]

I am simply saying that taxes are too low Well if you think you're not paying enough, why not pay more yourself?

[JohnnyMack]

we're just going to miracle money to pay down the deficit aren't we :D

Or......you could not have spent it in the first place.

And I'll qualify that by saying I think both the DoD budget and Obamacare are prime examples of waste.

Good luck however getting either side to relent on one of its sacred cows.

[OklahomaTuba]

Kind of stupid to give those addicts more money in DC when they refuse to drastically cut the federal government at all...any increase in taxes is worthless until that occurs...This would be common sense for most people. How someone can actually believe the biggest single waster of money in world history actually needs more money is baffling.

And this is based on the false assumption that higher tax rates = more tax revenue, which has been proven false many times.

[yermom]

shouldn't you be complaining about Bush? he's the one that passed them as temporary, right?

[okie52]

The tax cuts won't cost chit... a tenth or two of GDP...

I will pull up the data....the biggest increase in revenue was due to increased cap gains...from a booming stock market....

The Charts!!!!!

[OklahomaTuba]

shouldn't you be complaining about Bush? he's the one that passed them as temporary, right?No, congress passes laws, not the executive branch.

[yermom]

you sure bitch about Obama a lot then

[OklahomaTuba]

I like this idear...

In order to balance the budget by 2020, all the feds need to do is cut 3.6 percent of projected budgets in each of the next 10 years. . . .

Note that this exercise isn’t utopian from a small-government POV. That is, it gives oodles of money to the government to maintain a status quo that doesn’t work particularly well. But what it does do is show the relative ease of balancing the budget over time without raising government revenue. When you hear folks talking about how the ‘Bush tax cuts’ are starving government coffers, remind them of that 60 percent increase in real spending over the past decade and point them to this chart.”http://reason.com/blog/2010/12/07/does-preserving-the-bush-tax-r

[OklahomaTuba]

you sure bitch about Obama a lot thenWell he's done such a bang up job so far. I mean, double digit unemployment for nearly his entire term, record debt, record poverty, and now you can't get on a plane without getting sexually harrased and photographed nude.

I mean, what's not to like???

[RFH Shakes]

I am simply saying that taxes are too low...

Incorrect, spending is too high!

[yermom]

Well he's done such a bang up job so far. I mean, double digit unemployment for nearly his entire term, record debt, record poverty, and now you can't get on a plane without getting sexually harrased and photographed nude.

I mean, what's not to like???

he's single handedly passed all those laws, right?

[pphilfran]

The Charts!!!!!

It will take me a while this morning...

I don't understand why the data is not presented by anyone but myself...it is easy to get...historical tables in the Obama budget...

[pphilfran]

I like this idear...
http://reason.com/blog/2010/12/07/does-preserving-the-bush-tax-r



Cutting 3.6% for ten years would be brutal...that is a big cut each and every year...

[Sooner5030]

-get DoD under $500 billion/year

-drop department of education

-get health and Human services under $500 billion/year. end food stamps

-cut labor department by 40 billion/year. curb unemployment compensation

-end the earned income tax credit and other back door welfare programs

-establish flat tax with no deductions - stop picking favorites and subsidizing bubbles.

-provide every citizen with an annual statement of what there portion of the total debt is and add it to their credit report.

[JohnnyMack]

-get DoD under $500 billion/year

-drop department of education

-get health and Human services under $500 billion/year. end food stamps

-cut labor department by 40 billion/year. curb unemployment compensation

-end the earned income tax credit and other back door welfare programs

-establish flat tax with no deductions - stop picking favorites and subsidizing bubbles.

-provide every citizen with an annual statement of what there portion of the total debt is and add it to their credit report.

And give everyone skittles and unicorns too!!!

[AlboSooner]

Hopefully some of that will trickle down.....

I am surprised that people are surprised that a few rich people have more to gain by these tax cuts, and run this country.

[diegosooner]

The tax cuts won't cost chit... a tenth or two of GDP...

I will pull up the data....the biggest increase in revenue was due to increased cap gains...from a booming stock market....

a tenth or two of GDP is quite a bit, isn't it?

[bigfatjerk]

The democrats were so stupid in this entire argument. All they really had to do was try and argue for a millionaires tax and they probably get the raise in taxes they wanted eventually.

But the real problem right now is that there's so many ways for the rich to exempt themselves from taxes. The tax rates need to simplified and exemptions need to be taken out of taxes. Really the best idea is the Fair Tax but it's not happening. A flat tax on everything with no exemptions is the most realistic idea.

[Sooner5030]

And give everyone skittles and unicorns too!!!

unicorns are make believe kinda like hopium and the belief that a government can be sustained when it only raises 60% of the funds needed to pay it's bills.

We are in a really bad spot and the inability of any adults to tell the mob that we have to cut their bennies has made me decide to go to BUNKER DEFCON 1.

DEFCON 1 - buy a safe; keep about 5k in cash, 2.5k in silver coins and 2.5k in gold coins. buy a gun and some ammo

DEFCON 2 - buy 10+ acres

DEFCON 3 - install well and septic on land

DEFCON 4 - build fences and shelter for raising pigs, goats and chickens.

DEFCON 5 - move onto land with RV and build small self sustaining cabin.

DEFCON 6 - build natural obstacles around land to keep people out, go totally galt, starve the beast and stop participating in this ponzi scheme that is the US gubment.

Although, I might have the defcon numbering system backwards. That and I haven't convinced Mrs. 5030 of any of this yet.

[okie52]

It will take me a while this morning...

I don't understand why the data is not presented by anyone but myself...it is easy to get...historical tables in the Obama budget...

I've gotten pretty lazy in the last few months and you and Sapp have been good about providing info. ;)

[diegosooner]

Quote:
Originally Posted by OnlyOneOklahoma
I am simply saying that taxes are too low...
Incorrect, spending is too high!


Janis Joplin once sang a song called, "Combination of the Two."

[Veritas]

Is there anything dumber than cutting revenue (extending the cuts) AND increasing costs (extending unemployment)?

That's just plain stupid.

(I'm heavily on the "extend the cuts, slash unemployment" side of the fence, if you need to know what horse I'm backing).

[JohnnyMack]

Is there anything dumber than cutting revenue (extending the cuts) AND increasing costs (extending unemployment)?

That's just plain stupid.

Taylor Martinez just fumbled again.

[Veritas]

Taylor Martinez just fumbled again.
You shut your whore mouth. Only reason you guys won is because the damn refs gave you an extra three quarters.

[tommieharris91]

KNOW WHO ELSE LIKED TAX CUTS FOR THE POOR?? HITLER.

[OklahomaTuba]

Cutting 3.6% for ten years would be brutal...that is a big cut each and every year...Please. That's Moocheles shopping trip budget to the Spanish Rivera.

[JohnnyMack]

Tuba,

Serious question.

How much of the DoD budget do you think should be cut?

[SoonerProphet]

http://www.heritage.org/budgetchartbook/Images/growth-federal-spending-600.jpg

[diegosooner]

http://www.heritage.org/budgetchartbook/Images/growth-federal-spending-600.jpg

I'm not arguing for growth in federal spending, but the comparison shouldn't be to median income. Aggregate income would be better. e.g., the income for the top 25% might have exploded but may have little or no impact on the median income.

[Caboose]

I'm not arguing for growth in federal spending, but the comparison shouldn't be to median income. Aggregate income would be better. e.g., the income for the top 25% might have exploded but may have little or no impact on the median income.

Also, there are more households.... and still only 1 Federal Government.

[IndySooner]

I'm trying to figure this out:

Republicans would NOT pass unemployment extension because it wasn't funded. It had to be offset by cuts in spending.

Then, they compromise this with extension of tax cuts to the rich, so in other words, the Republicans didn't care about spending as long as it lined their pockets.

Am I off base?

The politicians are ALL corrupt. I'm sick of it.

[Sooner_Bob]

No, we're talking about real people here, not government workers and union members.

I work for the government and I don't make anywhere close to $200k. :confused:

[bigfatjerk]

I'm trying to figure this out:

Republicans would NOT pass unemployment extension because it wasn't funded. It had to be offset by cuts in spending.

Then, they compromise this with extension of tax cuts to the rich, so in other words, the Republicans didn't care about spending as long as it lined their pockets.

Am I off base?

The politicians are ALL corrupt. I'm sick of it.

I agree if the spending continues to go up. If we start cutting spending the next couple of years across the board then I agree with this. I don't see much spending cuts in this session of congress because the republicans don't really have any control over that.

[soonerscuba]

I agree if the spending continues to go up. If we start cutting spending the next couple of years across the board then I agree with this. I don't see much spending cuts in this session of congress because the republicans don't really have any control over that.The Republicans are going to cut spending, this time they promise!

How many times are people going to believe this lie, because we're going on three decades.

[OklahomaTuba]

Tuba,

Serious question.

How much of the DoD budget do you think should be cut?

Probably should be increased, if Obama is going to keep throwing more troops into Afghanistan and keep GITMO open, don't you think?

Besides, DOD's portion of spending is small compared to what we spend in entitlements. SS and Medicare need to be tackled first. Obamacare is going to bankrupt us probably.

[Sooner_Bob]

Anyone know how much foreign aide the US sends out each year?

[bigfatjerk]

The Republicans are going to cut spending, this time they promise!

How many times are people going to believe this lie, because we're going on three decades.

They did a fairly good job of cutting down on spending in the 90s. That was what helped Clinton look so good. And we had the internet boom. Now once they got the presidency Bush went after social issues then the neo-cons took over after 9-11. It was all BS. If the republicans just stay on cutting spending they will do fine.

[OklahomaTuba]

http://www.heritage.org/budgetchartbook/Images/growth-federal-spending-600.jpg[liberal thinking]So obviously the government needs MORE money, and we need LESS.[/liberal thinking]

[Boarder]

And since Obama came into office, a lot of people make a lot less!!!


Yeah, and TSA wasn't feeling up children and taking nude photos of everyone until the donks got control of them.

So much for liberals loving privacy.


That's what its all about, cause a community organizer knows how to spend your money better than you do.

ACORN NEEDS MORE CASH!!!!


No, we're talking about real people here, not government workers and union members.


It's all related, liberals always take. Either they are gonna take your property, or they are gonna take your dignity.


About as much as I want Obumbles TSA thugs assaulting them and taking pictures of their naked bodies just for the crime of getting on an airplane.


Hate to break it to you, but everyone has tightened up already.

Well everyone except the fed. government that is.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_djgssszshgM/SZPopHu6GEI/AAAAAAAAAzg/R5LBzirmy4s/s400/budget+deficit.gif


Seems as though the fed has that part covered these days. Lord knows we can't even print money now without ****ing it up.


Cause Obumblefuc spent that last night at dinner.

Seriously, do you have some sort of Glenn Beckian magic 8 ball to spit out canned buzzword responses to everything? You're kind of slipping, you haven't mentioned a mosque or made a Muslim reference yet.

[bigfatjerk]

http://www.heritage.org/budgetchartbook/Images/growth-federal-spending-600.jpg

If you look at what the Repubs basically did in the 90s. Spending was almost flat. A little up overall, but not straight up like it's been most of the last 10 years with the exception of 2005-2007. That's what I think most people want. Spending over the next 2 years needs to just go way down and remain down.

[Sooner_Bob]

http://www.heritage.org/budgetchartbook/Images/growth-federal-spending-600.jpg

Was this adjusted so that the information for both income and Federal spending included benefits paid out by the Feds? For example, does the income include unemployment benefits, and/or welfare payments? Since I'm sure that expense is included in the Federal spending.

[Blue]

what kind of answer us this. RED HERRING. This has nothing to do with anything.

Also, raising taxes back to their "natural" state is not taking your money at gun point. You had ten years to put yourself in a better position while crippling our country, time to pay up.
How about instead of ripping off the taxpayers AGAIN, we stop unneeded programs, a few wars, and maybe not bail out the EU banks to the tune of 3.3 TRILLION dollars.

It's not our fault. We've been sold out.

[soonerscuba]

If you look at what the Repubs basically did in the 90s. Spending was almost flat. A little up overall, but not straight up like it's been most of the last 10 years with the exception of 2005-2007. That's what I think most people want. Spending over the next 2 years needs to just go way down and remain down.You seem to be ignoring the OMB and pretending the Republican party crafted the 90s budgets, they played their part, but budgeting takes two branches. Looking to the mid 00s as a source of things to do is a new one on me.

I don't think anybody wants the deficit to be higher, I'm just astounded people still think either party has the courage to do anything about it.

[Ike]

http://www.heritage.org/budgetchartbook/Images/growth-federal-spending-600.jpg

couple that with this:

http://modeledbehavior.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/image_thumb18.png

Given that someone here mentioned that the bottom 50% pay about 2.9% of the federal income tax, comparing median household income (which is the upper limit of the bottom 50%) to federal spending really doesn't tell you much of anything. Other than people in that bottom 50% are pretty much being left behind, while the govt and people at the top are benefiting hugely.

[Sooner5030]

Other than people in that bottom 50% are pretty much being left behind, while the govt and people at the top are benefiting hugely.

This is a meritocracy. The country was not founded so everyone could "keep up" but instead so my individual freedoms and liberty would not be trampled by a mob that wants the gubment to help people "keep up" by taxing my commerce.

[Blue]

Whats funny is that tax receipts will continue to go down bc people simply cant pay the IRS. But w/ gasoline taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, and inflation, they'll gig your *** one way or the other.

I don't like unemployment benefits and welfare, but with the way things are right now if people didn't have that, we'd have alot more problems. I think Obama made the right call, but as has been said here, our govt. is sick.

[Ike]

This is a meritocracy. The country was not founded so everyone could "keep up" but instead so my individual freedoms and liberty would not be trampled by a mob that wants the gubment to help people "keep up" by taxing my commerce.

If only we really were a meritocracy...


Taxes are the price you pay for access to the awesome market we have here that allows you to make money with your commerce. For most people, regardless of how good they are at what they do, they would have no shot at making as much money if they had to do it in many other countries, because the markets just aren't what they are here.


Anyway, my point had nothing to do with keeping up, or trampling down...merely that comparing govt spending to median household income is completely useless. Compare it to GDP on the same graph, and you won't see too much of a divergence (because the scale is too large)

[JohnnyMack]

Probably should be increased, if Obama is going to keep throwing more troops into Afghanistan and keep GITMO open, don't you think?

Besides, DOD's portion of spending is small compared to what we spend in entitlements. SS and Medicare need to be tackled first. Obamacare is going to bankrupt us probably.

You are seriously making this argument? Seriously?

The defense budget is far and away the biggest chunk of discretionary spending and you know it. You're not about smaller government, you're about less of what your side opposes and more of what your side covets.

[dwarthog]

I'm trying to figure this out:

Republicans would NOT pass unemployment extension because it wasn't funded. It had to be offset by cuts in spending.

Then, they compromise this with extension of tax cuts to the rich, so in other words, the Republicans didn't care about spending as long as it lined their pockets.

Am I off base?

The politicians are ALL corrupt. I'm sick of it.

Yeah, your offbase.

Unless your idea of fairness is taking everything from people in the top income brackets and giving it to the ones on the lower end that already don't pay anything.




http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k19/dwarthog/Who_pays.png

[bigfatjerk]

You are seriously making this argument? Seriously?

The defense budget is far and away the biggest chunk of discretionary spending and you know it. You're not about smaller government, you're about less of what your side opposes and more of what your side covets.
I'm for getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan completely and getting out of Europe completely. We still have roughly 100k in Europe. And I'm for cutting down on Korea.

But I'm realistic. Neither party really wants to cut down on overseas. The democrats haven't shown any real signs that they want to cut on these areas either.

[GKeeper316]

I should have mentioned that small compromise on the Republicans part. I don't even agree with it and I vote Dem quite often. Extending unemployment is stupid and costly.

its even more costly when those unemployed people start missing mortgage payments and banks foreclose on their property. extending unemployment will cost us, but not nearly as much as the alternative.

until people can find work (that largely isn't out there), they gonna need some help. id rather help them out than have them homeless and banks losing money on defaulted real estate and need another bailout to keep the consumer credit markets running.

[bigfatjerk]

its even more costly when those unemployed people start missing mortgage payments and banks foreclose on their property. extending unemployment will cost us, but not nearly as much as the alternative.

until people can find work (that largely isn't out there), they gonna need some help. id rather help them out than have them homeless and banks losing money on defaulted real estate and need another bailout to keep the consumer credit markets running.

It's the chicken and the egg type thing there though. If the unemployed know they won't getting paid for doing nothing will they try and get a job sooner? Or will they abuse unemployment so they can get money for doing nothing and wait as long as possible to get a job.

[2121Sooner]

I just love Obama.

He runs on getting rid of the Bush tax cuts, taxing the rich, and Change.

Seems that the more things change, the more they stay the same.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

I guess you could say this if you are employed, But some I know who have been out of work are still out of work thru no fault of their own.

I'll be damned! Obama hacked in and is posting under olevet's name!!

[AlboSooner]

Wealth is never created in vacuum. It is an economic absurdity for everybody to be wealthy, so good job to the elite for convincing the middle class to stick up for their cause. I guess Obama lies when he says he'd rather be a one-term president and do the right thing.

[2121Sooner]

Wealth is never created in vacuum. It is an economic absurdity for everybody to be wealthy, so good job to the elite for convincing the middle class to stick up for their cause. I guess Obama lies when he says he'd rather be a one-term president and do the right thing.


What? A Chicago Politician lie? Never......say it aint so Joe!!!

[pphilfran]

For some reason I can't copy the data from photobucket...also the cap gains data is from the IRS and not the Obama budget, sorry for the inaccurate info on the location to find the CG data....

I will have to do it this way...sorry that it looks like chit...

The Clinton tax increase went into effect in 2003 (limit changed higher in 2004).

The budget from 1998, 1999, and 2000 is what gets everyone all hot and bothered...the budget was BALANCED (or nearly so)...all because the income tax rate was increased...

But let's look at facts...

Total receipts as a percent of GDP(Obama budget historical tables)

Look at that....massive increases in revenue....all due to the income tax increase...

1989 18.4
1990 18.0
1991 17.8
1992 17.5
1993 17.5
1994 18.0
1995 18.4
1996 18.8
1997 19.2
1998 19.9
1999 19.8
2000 20.6

Cap gains as a % of GDP for the same years...(from IRS data)...those cap gains exploded in 98, 99, and 2000
1989 2.81
1990 2.13
1991 1.86
1992 2.00
1993 2.29
1994 2.17
1995 2.43
1996 3.34
1997 4.39
1998 5.18
1999 5.96
2000 6.56

All Tax Revenue minus cap gains - corp taxes also increased during this time and they are included in the data below...revenue outside of CG actually went down...how can that be?
1989 15.6
1990 15.9
1991 15.9
1992 15.5
1993 15.2
1994 15.8
1995 16.0
1996 15.5
1997 14.8
1998 14.7
1999 13.8
2000 14.0

So...in actuality all of the revenue gains came from cap gains due to a booming stock market...very little, if any, of the revenue gains came from the pizz ant Clinton tax increase...

The Deficit Commission has it right....it is deductions and loopholes that are the problem...you raise the tax rate and the wealthy have many avenues to use to keep their tax bill low... and you can see that effect in the data above...they moved money from a high tax area and cashed out stocks at the end of a bull run and paid CG's...

Our leadership bitched and moaned...pointed fingers and cried foul...over a couple of tenths of GDP (maybe) when the deficit is 5 or 6%...it ain't gonna come close to balancing the budget like many on the left believe....it ain't gonna kill the economy like many on the right believe...

Typical DC...

[Caboose]

Wealth is never created in vacuum. It is an economic absurdity for everybody to be wealthy, so good job to the elite for convincing the middle class to stick up for their cause. I guess Obama lies when he says he'd rather be a one-term president and do the right thing.

Some people view the tax code as a device to punish the wealthy or to bring about some sort of cosmic justice instead of its actual purpose which is to fund the day to day essential operations of the government.

[pphilfran]

Some people view the tax code as a device to punish the wealthy or to bring about some sort of cosmic justice instead of its actual purpose which is to fund the day to day essential operations of the government.

Well said....

[pphilfran]

Hey....I gotta a star! I am so proud....

[bigfatjerk]

For some reason I can't copy the data from photobucket...also the cap gains data is from the IRS and not the Obama budget, sorry for the inaccurate info on the location to find the CG data....

I will have to do it this way...sorry that it looks like chit...

The Clinton tax increase went into effect in 2003 (limit changed higher in 2004).

The budget from 1998, 1999, and 2000 is what gets everyone all hot and bothered...the budget was BALANCED (or nearly so)...all because the income tax rate was increased...

But let's look at facts...

Total receipts as a percent of GDP(Obama budget historical tables)

Look at that....massive increases in revenue....all due to the income tax increase...

1989 18.4
1990 18.0
1991 17.8
1992 17.5
1993 17.5
1994 18.0
1995 18.4
1996 18.8
1997 19.2
1998 19.9
1999 19.8
2000 20.6

Cap gains as a % of GDP for the same years...(from IRS data)...those cap gains exploded in 98, 99, and 2000
1989 2.81
1990 2.13
1991 1.86
1992 2.00
1993 2.29
1994 2.17
1995 2.43
1996 3.34
1997 4.39
1998 5.18
1999 5.96
2000 6.56

All Tax Revenue minus cap gains - corp taxes also increased during this time and they are included in the data below...revenue outside of CG actually went down...how can that be?
1989 15.6
1990 15.9
1991 15.9
1992 15.5
1993 15.2
1994 15.8
1995 16.0
1996 15.5
1997 14.8
1998 14.7
1999 13.8
2000 14.0

So...in actuality all of the revenue gains came from cap gains due to a booming stock market...very little, if any, of the revenue gains came from the pizz ant Clinton tax increase...

The Deficit Commission has it right....it is deductions and loopholes that are the problem...you raise the tax rate and the wealthy have many avenues to use to keep their tax bill low... and you can see that effect in the data above...they moved money from a high tax area and cashed out stocks at the end of a bull run and paid CG's...

Our leadership bitched and moaned...pointed fingers and cried foul...over a couple of tenths of GDP (maybe) when the deficit is 5 or 6%...it ain't gonna come close to balancing the budget like many on the left believe....it ain't gonna kill the economy like many on the right believe...

Typical DC...
It's this simple for the government. Cut spending and keep the spending down. It'll do more for revenues and the economy than anything else.

[pphilfran]

It's this simple for the government. Cut spending and keep the spending down. It'll do more for revenues and the economy than anything else.


That and grow the economy...

[OklahomaTuba]

It's this simple for the government. Cut spending and keep the spending down. It'll do more for revenues and the economy than anything else.Tell that to the idiot in chief that just quadrupled the budget debt and is now cutting taxes.

[OklahomaTuba]

The defense budget is far and away the biggest chunk of discretionary spending and you know it.
No it's not. Social Security and Medicare are much bigger.

[bigfatjerk]

No it's not. Social Security and Medicare are much bigger.
They are probably all about the same size. All of them need to be cut big time.

[bigfatjerk]

That and grow the economy...

The less money that is involved in the federal government the more it goes to private companies and they can use that money to grow business and hire people. Right now businesses are basically afraid to do anything.

[pphilfran]

They are probably all about the same size. All of them need to be cut big time.

2009
Defense 616 billion
Medicare 390 billion
SS 617 billion

2015 Estimate (Budget historical tables)
Defense 685 billion
Medicare 658 billion
SS 900 billion

In 7 years...

Defense up 15% or so
Medicare up around 65%
SS up 30%

How long can we sustain those trends?

[pphilfran]

The less money that is involved in the federal government the more it goes to private companies and they can use that money to grow business and hire people. Right now businesses are basically afraid to do anything.

I agree....our leaderships focus is on the wrong things...

[JohnnyMack]

No it's not. Social Security and Medicare are much bigger.

You understand the concept of discretionary?

[pphilfran]

We also must not forget interest on the national debt...we are currently paying an extremely low rate for those bonds...the fed has elected to finance with short term bonds since they pay the lowest rates...if interest rates go up we will pay even more in interest going forward...and rates will be going up...

2009 187 billion
2015 571 billion


A triple....

[pphilfran]

You understand the concept of discretionary?

Down the road mandatory spending will eat up the vast majority of any revenue....

It ain't gonna be pretty when all is said and done...

Loopholes will be eliminated...

Tax rates will increase...

Benefits will be cut...

The populace ain't gonna be happy...

[bigfatjerk]

You understand the concept of discretionary?

We have to start cutting here ASAP. Europe is having so many troubles right now because they are at a stage where they have to increase taxes and cut spending. We actually probably aren't at that stage if we decrease spending and decrease entitlements. Maybe I'm wrong on this. But if we keep increasing the entitlement culture in America we'll end up bankrupt like much of Europe. If you read throughout American history the Sam Adams, Jefferson, Madison, Ayn Rand, Reagan throughout history have warned about getting the rich to pay for the poor is just a bad policy. And we keep trying to make this more and more of a welfare state. It's not sustainable.

[Blue]

What about this 350 billion going to European banks? Should that make me mad? Should i stop paying my taxes? You know, since we're under a global financial system already?

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/meet-35-foreign-banks-got-bailed-out-fed-and-just-cpff-banks

[OnlyOneOklahoma]

Bailing out foreign banks is the economic equivalent of stationing troops in bases around the world.

They protect freedom and insure that Americans can do business, and the bailouts insure financial interests are protected.

Were you outraged over the US Fruit and Political revolutions/coups in central America?

[Blue]

Bailing out foreign banks is the economic equivalent of stationing troops in bases around the world.

They protect freedom and insure that Americans can do business, and the bailouts insure financial interests are protected.

Were you outraged over the US Fruit and Political revolutions/coups in central America?

I'm not outraged over any of it. I'm numb to it.

[OnlyOneOklahoma]

me too.

I have hit the stage of liberalism where I am jaded as hell. I guess it is a stage of politics, not any particular ideology.

I guess I will find a person (Andrew Rice) and donate my time to them, and improve the world around me.

[OklahomaTuba]

I have hit the stage of liberalism where I am jaded as hell.
Is there any other stage of liberalism?? It's a failed ideology, (see Europe) and which even Liberalism's brightest star (Barack Hussien Obama) has now turned his back on.

At this point Obama is just Bush's third term. Albeit much less successful, and much more damaging than the previous two. http://www.newworldorderwar.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/bush-obama.jpg

[pphilfran]

How much will the SS cut cost?

A 2% reduction will be about 15% of the total tax...

This year SS will bring in about 900 billion...

15% cut out of 900 billion...135 billion...

Lets look at it a different way...let's look at income tax returns...

I will low ball each number and I will be using AGI...toss in a little rounding of numbers for added spice...and I haven't seen where there will be an income threshold to get the cut so I will include returns showing more than 100k...

2007 data

18 million people filed returns with an AGI above 100k...2 grand a pop...36 billion..

11.7 million made between 75k and 100k...say $1500 per return on average...17 billion...

20 million between 50 and 75k....$1000 per return....20 billion...

45 million between 20 and 50k...$500 per return...22.5 billion...

22 million between 10 and 20k....$200 per return...4.5 billion...

12 million between 5 and 10....$100 per return....1.2 billion...

101.2 billion...

Any way you cut it it will be over a 100 billion for 1 year....probably closer to 150 billion...

With total receipts expected to be 2.1 trillion this will amount to a 6 or 7% cut in revenue...minimum...

[Veritas]

http://www.newworldorderwar.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/bush-obama.jpg
I'd hit it.

[JohnnyMack]

I'd hit it.

http://photos.newsok.com/2/showimage/1283221/medium

[Veritas]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_K5ls3SJu5Qo/S5Zq9dYTr8I/AAAAAAAACmo/fLjKaBKWPV4/s320/UConn.gif

You better look out, butthole, these guys are fierce. FIERCE.

[cccasooner2]

you really do want your grandkids to pay for it though, right?

I have no problem with that.

[soonercoop1]

Might as well keep as much money from the federal government as possible since that seems to be the only way to stop the spending....thats why they don't want a flat tax since they can't socially engineer the tax code...

[StoopTroup]

I read the first page of this one this morning.

Amazingly TubaFest is alive and well.

[picasso]

That is what the two year tax cut extension is going to cost us.

That sounds pretty arrogant. Who in the hell said all of that money belonged to the government?