Big XII future?

[TUSooner]

What is REALLY likely to happen to the now-misnamed Big 12 conference? (Assume -- perhaps unwisely -- that burnt orange hubris doesn't cause an imminent dissolution.)

Will the name change? (I mean really, the "Big 10" with 12 teams and the
"Big 12" with 10? That's too dumb even for the NCAA.)

Will it expand? I thought TCU would come in, but that's out now. Who else are likely #11 and #12? Arky? Boise?!? _________???

Will it shrink to the good ol' Big 8 again? Who would go away?

Try to offer an intelligent response to my stupid questions --- if possible. :D

[oumartin]

Hard to go back to the good ole' big 8 when 2 of those members bolted.

I honestly think it folds within the next four years with Texas likely going independent and OU/OSU will be left scrambling to find a decent conference. SEC might not be so willing to let us in this next time.

I say OU goes to the WAC since we are being drug down by that anchor in stillwater

[allanace16]

Hard to go back to the good ole' big 8 when 2 of those members bolted.

I honestly think it folds within the next four years with Texas likely going independent and OU/OSU will be left scrambling to find a decent conference. SEC might not be so willing to let us in this next time.

I say OU goes to the WAC since we are being drug down by that anchor in stillwater

LOL! Sad but true about Payne County CC. I don't see the SEC taking on Boone State. My guess is OU and Texas go indy, and the rest form the "8 Dwarves" conference.

[fwsooner22]

The SEC and Big 10 and Pac 10 will become super conferences. The little guys (TCU, Boise, Utah) are creeping too close. We will end up in one of those messes. I can see ** independent. We don't carry that kinda clout, wish we did. ** competes nationally in everything from football to tiddly winks. They go and it's over. I bet we have two more years with what's left of the Big 12 and it's anybodys guess.

[KantoSooner]

I am getting a strong sense of deja vu...didn't we have this discussion not too long ago?

[Fugue]

I am getting a strong sense of deja vu...didn't we have this discussion not too long ago?

TUSooner's lack of memory saddens me.

[TUSooner]

In other words, nobody knows anything? ;)

Seriously, you'd think someone would have a plan. Guess not.
I was rather disappointed we didn't go to the PAC 10-or-16. Looks like we maybe shoulda.

[TUSooner]

TUSooner's lack of memory saddens me.

It's not lack of memory; it's inattention. Please! :D


I was hoping for real information, for a change. <shakes head sadly>

[Fugue]

I think that it is worrisome that we haven't heard of any official plan of attack.
It's seems that they are just hoping things will be ok.

[Widescreen]

TUSooner's lack of memory saddens me.

Arrogant.

[HolaKyle]

Dan Beebe dropped the ball, once again. He already had 2 teams leave his conference. After keeping the Big 12 (10) together, he should have done more to bring additional teams in. The current upcoming formula isn't going to be enough for sustained success.

On who those teams would be, I don't know. But the people in charge of the Big 12 get paid enough to figure that out.

It is a little upsetting to see TCU leave for the Big East, when we could have picked them up. I don't feel like it would have been a great addition (especially outside of football), but it could have been a start.

Praise goes to Pac 10 and Big 10 commissioners for stealing away our teams. The Big 12 should have been more agressive.

[bigfatjerk]

TCU adds nothing to the conference. Honestly BYU and Boise add more than TCU. And I don't like either one of those. TCU and Baylor are basically the same.

[Breadburner]

TCU adds nothing to the BIG 12....Not to mention they have jumped conferences multiple times in the last 12 years.....If the Big 12 wants to expand it will have to be teams outside of Texass....ie....AFA...BYU....Arkansas....Northern Illinois....and such....

[IndySooner]

In 3 years, I see it playing out something like this:

Pac 16: Arizona, Arizona State, Cal, Colorado, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Oregon, Oregon State, Southern Cal, Stanford, Texas, Texas Tech, UCLA, Utah, Washington, Washington State

Big 16: Kansas, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, Northwestern, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Penn State, Purdue, Rutgers, Wisconsin

SEC: Alabama, Arkansas, Auburn, Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Kentucky, LSU, Mississippi, Mississippi State, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas A&M, Vanderbilt

ACC: Boston College, Connecticut, Duke, Louisville, Maryland, Memphis, Miami, North Carolina, North Carolina State, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest, West Virginia


These four conferences make up "Division 1" of college football. 8 team playoff starting with conference championship games.

Teams like TCU, Iowa State, Kansas State, Baylor, Boise, etc., get left in the dust of conference expansion.

[jkjsooner]

The part I don't understand is how exposure to the big coastal media markets is what is driving this.

I live on the east coast and these people don't care about college football. Their teams are the Patriots/Giants/Jets/Eagles/Redskins. What is the point of having big markets if people in those same markets don't watch your product?

[KantoSooner]

It's not lack of memory; it's inattention. Please! :D


I was hoping for real information, for a change. <shakes head sadly>

I don't think anyone has any right now, is the point I was making.

On the up side, never forget that the last go 'round on this issue resulted in the concuction of the phrase, 'insipid buttplunger' to describe Dan Beebe. Who knows what marvelousness awaits us in the the months to come?

Be of good cheer!

[picasso]

Hard to go back to the good ole' big 8 when 2 of those members bolted.

I honestly think it folds within the next four years with Texas likely going independent and OU/OSU will be left scrambling to find a decent conference. SEC might not be so willing to let us in this next time.

I say OU goes to the WAC since we are being drug down by that anchor in stillwater

We won't be left scrambling for anything.

[Boomer38Sooner]

They should call it the Great Plains Conference.

[SoonerLVZ]

The part I don't understand is how exposure to the big coastal media markets is what is driving this.

I live on the east coast and these people don't care about college football. Their teams are the Patriots/Giants/Jets/Eagles/Redskins. What is the point of having big markets if people in those same markets don't watch your product?

Does anyone have a link for the ratings average for college football games with TV markets? Just wondering if it's out there to see what it really is.

[OUinFLA]

add BYU and ND to the Big XII and you have most of the Mormons, Catholics and Baptists with a conference to religiously root for.

[TopDawg]

In 3 years, I see it playing out something like this:

Pac 16: Arizona, Arizona State, Cal, Colorado, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Oregon, Oregon State, Southern Cal, Stanford, Texas, Texas Tech, UCLA, Utah, Washington, Washington State

Big 16: Kansas, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, Northwestern, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Penn State, Purdue, Rutgers, Wisconsin

SEC: Alabama, Arkansas, Auburn, Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Kentucky, LSU, Mississippi, Mississippi State, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas A&M, Vanderbilt

ACC: Boston College, Connecticut, Duke, Louisville, Maryland, Memphis, Miami, North Carolina, North Carolina State, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest, West Virginia


These four conferences make up "Division 1" of college football. 8 team playoff starting with conference championship games.

Teams like TCU, Iowa State, Kansas State, Baylor, Boise, etc., get left in the dust of conference expansion.

You really think we'll cut D-1 in half? I think if there is a move toward 16-team conferences across the board, we'll see at least 6 of them. That would be 96 teams out of the current...what is it now...119? 120?

Perhaps even more likely, though, that we go to 8 conferences and actually ADD a handful more teams to D-1.

I love talking about conference realignments. I invented my own scenario last year and we discussed it here...but that was long before any of the realignment stuff happened. My version is shot now.

[PDXsooner]

I think the massive expansion that almost happened this past summer re: the Pac-16 will eventually happen...

Until then, adding BYU and Louisville is the answer. Louisville is equal to Colorado athletically, and adds a decent market and eastern time zone.

BYU has a loyal mormon following and would be a top tier Big 12 football school.

[oudivesherpa]

As long as we are tied to OSU, I think we are screwed. The State of Oklahoma brings little appeal to marketers, only 2.5 million people or slightly smaller than Houston. However, when you say OU football, you have one of the strongest brands in college football. OSU fans don't get it--the put down OU for having a lot of fans who didn't go to OU. This is a makreters dream, only a few schools have a lot of fans who didn't go to school there,
OU, Notre Dame, USC and tOSU. OU brings a lot to the advertisers table, OSU very little. Let the little brother fend for himself.

OU MBA 1969

[bigfatjerk]

I think we need to try and get Notre Dame and BYU if we really want to change things for the Big 12 for the better. I don't see it happening but those 2 seem to me to be the best and most natural fits. They would both bring the most into the conference with big fan bases and good football history. Notre Dame has the best history of any one but BYU is similar to a Colorado in football history.

[Cinco Ranch Cougar]

Sorry for the lengthy note but I received from an Tex A&M buddy of mine. I think this is a very good read on the situation. I also have my thoughts on UT going independent but will not post that now.

With the pending 10-year, $120 million deal with ESPN to broadcast the Longhorn Network (leaked by the Texas admin to the Internet), our friends in Austin have once again fanned the flames of realignment just months after pulling out all the political stops to keep Texas A&M joined at the hip in the revamped Big 12.

At the time, Texas was already out on a limb with the Pac-16 deal and frankly the Aggies threw a monkey wrench into those plans. With the Pac-16 no longer a viable option without A&M, the Big 12 and the Longhorns quickly put together this $20 million for A&M and OU to keep the conference together. And why is that? Because Texas needed more time to put its network deal together and they needed time to start the slow move to independence that begins with establishing long term scheduling contracts. If you’ve noticed, Texas has started to quietly add marquee non-conference future contracts with Maryland, Ole’ Miss, Arkansas, BYU, Notre Dame, Cal-Berkley, and USC. That’s to beef up assets for the future network as well as starting to add national opponents in preparation of a potential move as an independent.

In talking to a couple of Texas sources, they’ve been told that the university’s ideal scenario is to remain in the watered down Big 12. Under this scenario, the Horns not only cash the conference’s $20 million check, but they also get to cash the $12 million check each year from ESPN for the school’s new network. That’s $32 million a year, which is higher (by far) than any other school in the nation….including Notre Dame ($17 million), SEC schools ($20+ million), and of course A&M and OU ($20 million – in Dan Beebe dollars). You wonder why Texas now wants to stay in the Big 12? This Longhorn Network/Big 12 deal makes Texas the richest athletic department bar none, and it’s not even close.

Not only do they pocket tons of TV cash over and beyond its competition, but they get a more manageable conference schedule with the departure of Nebraska and the addition of playing Kansas and Iowa State every year (although no opponent is a cupcake these days for the Horns) which allows them to play national programs in non-conference.

So why would Texas A&M and OU want to be in a conference where their chief rival has the financial deck stacked against them? Well, they don’t and Texas realizes that there’s a possibility the Sooners and Aggies won’t sit still for this arrangement. A source close to DeLoss Dodds and the Texas BOR indicate that they have contingency plans if either or both schools bolt for the SEC. Their second option is taking the plunge to go independent, and they see this as a real possibility and frankly that’s the end game for them except that they won’t give up the $32 million Longhorn Network/Big 12 deal until they have to. Their third option if the independent option doesn’t pan out is to bite the bullet and join a conference. However, with a $12 million network deal around their necks, the conference options are limited. The Pac-16 just doesn’t have the same appeal as it did when basically the Big 12 South was coming along for the ride. The logistics and the money won’t work out going west. The Big Ten will have major heartburn inviting Texas with an existing network contract when the conference has its own very lucrative network contract. That leaves the SEC, and while they would prefer all conference members to split revenues equally, there is no current conference network deal to preclude the Longhorns from joining with its own network contract. Still, the SEC is very leery of the Longhorns who are always the hot chick at the bar that nobody wants to date because she’s so difficult to deal with because she knows how beautiful she is and expects to be treated as such. This is a possibility, but not a very high probability option. Bottom line, what Texas is doing is the first of a series of moves over the next few years to go independent. How quickly Texas A&M and OU react to this contract will determine the speed of the move.

Okay, so we’ve talked about the Longhorns and their motivations with this new network contract, but what about the Aggies and Texas A&M stakeholders and executive management (athletic director, president, BOR)? What are the Aggies thinking at the moment and how will they react to this latest provocative shot across the bow by Texas?

From my sources, the stakeholders are very aware of the financial and competitive consequences of the Texas deal and that Texas A&M will be at an even greater disadvantage if the university accepts the status quo with the new Big 12. By stakeholders, I mean major donors, university administration, and the BOR. Thus, if this goes down, the university will not stand by and accept the status quo of this deal. However, I have been told that the university doesn’t want to act prematurely or hastily and wants to see Texas actually sign the ESPN deal and formalize the arrangement before there’s any action taken. There’s no need to be the first mover here, and unlike last June, the university must have its political ducks in a row before making demands or leaving the Big 12 altogether.

As we’ve speculated back in the summer, we keep hearing that a move will likely come in the late spring of 2011 after the Texas legislative session ends and before the June deadline to notify the conference. Of course, that move will likely be to the SEC where I’ve been told numerous times since this summer that Texas A&M has a standing offer to join the conference as the gateway program to the state of Texas. While Texas A&M and the SEC didn’t consummate their dealings last June, the meetings conducted were very productive and both sides agreed that when the time is right, the Aggies will join the SEC and the offer will remain open for the foreseeable future.

The fact that Texas A&M has this arrangement and has a nice landing spot gives the school much greater leverage in these Big 12 dealings. That’s why the Aggies demanded the $20 million to stay in the Big 12 in the first place. With Texas set to make $32 million as long as the Aggies and Sooners play ball, Texas A&M actually has some leverage over Texas now. It’s this reason why some stakeholders are shaking their heads at Bill Byrne right now, who as recently as last week met with conference officials and pledged A&M’s loyalty to the new Big 12. There’s no question that Bill Byrne feels it’s in A&M’s best interest to stay far away from the SEC and its reputation of bending the rules. He believes that A&M can’t compete in the SEC under the existing circumstances, although you have to wonder how many SEC dominoes fall in this Cam Newton scandal. Byrne does have pockets of stakeholder support and a couple of high dollar supporters, but I’ve been told emphatically from some very good BMA sources that the support is not widespread and won’t hold over this issue. They point to the meetings with the SEC last June when the university moved forward without Byrne’s support. Byrne didn’t even participate in these meetings. When Byrne initially pledged A&M’s support of the Pac-16 proposal, A&M stakeholders and management abruptly reversed course and blinked at the Pac-16 idea which forced that contentious meeting with Longhorn admin in Austin. So there is history of stakeholders reversing course and not taking the lead of the athletic director.

I’ve been assured by these same high level sources that the next round of realignment talks will be no different and that the stakeholders will push to accept an invitation to the SEC. I’ve been told that the split among the donors is not great and that there’s enough support from BMA’s, the president’s office, the Chancellor, and a majority of the BOR to move forward when the time is right. When I bring up future political road blocks or other hurdles that could derail this effort, I’m told not to worry because that’s what June was all about. The politics weren’t in order last summer, but everything will be in order and ready to go next year. Personally, I’m always hesitant of the state’s politics but the stakeholders think they’ve positioned themselves to make a move when the time is right.

As far as Oklahoma, they are now prominently in the SEC discussion and most sources believe if and when A&M goes to the SEC, they will do it with OU. In the past, we’ve heard such a move would be impossible given the ties to Oklahoma State and state politics. Yes, what to do with OSU is always a major concern for the Sooners politically, but legislators in the state are coming to the realization that there won’t be two spots available for both Oklahoma schools in a BCS super conference and the possibility of both Oklahoma schools going to different conferences is feasible. I don’t claim to have inside knowledge of Oklahoma state politics. I’m just passing along thoughts and opinions of those privy to these discussions behind closed doors.

So to summarize, it does appear that the creation of the Longhorn Network will not sit well with university stakeholders at Texas A&M and this should hasten the decision to make a move to the SEC when the time is right…most likely next year. After what happened in June, I’m taking a “I’ll believe it when I see it” approach, but I’ve been told that I’ll see it in 6-7 months.

[bigfatjerk]

I could easily see that happening and it makes sense that this is why the Big 12 isn't really trying to expand.

[SoonerMom2]

I can see OU going to the SEC and leaving OSU behind. Don't think today's legislature will stand up to David Boren. Really think OU came close to leaving with A&M to go to the SEC the last time around.

Staying the way it is not going to work. Frankly after the Big 12 put out their first team and you find out it was voted on before Saturday night's game makes me want to tell Beebee, OSU, Baylor, Texas, and the north schools to pound salt.

[AggieGirl2005]

How do OU fans feel about going to the SEC?

[bigfatjerk]

How do OU fans feel about going to the SEC?

I wouldn't like it. I would think A&M fans would hate it because they would have a tough time every winning in that conference. They have a tough enough time winning in the Big 12 South right now.

[AggieGirl2005]

I wouldn't like it. I would think A&M fans would hate it because they would have a tough time every winning in that conference. They have a tough enough time winning in the Big 12 South right now.

I agree with you - I think it would have been too early to move to the SEC last summer. We need a few years of consistently good seasons first. But I think we could compete, provided we have those good seasons first - we've had three coaches in 10 years...once we settle down and find someone, we'll be okay. Not consistently top 5 okay, but I'd expect like an Arkansas or Auburn. Good seasons with an occasional great season.

[ELP Sooner]

The population of the states involved is overrated. The SEC is not a great market TV wise...it's the brand. The league has a national following. If TV sets were all that mattered why does the Big 12 have a much better TV deal than the Pac 10? The fact is that OKLAHOMA is a national power and will always do well on TV. Sooner fans have nothing to worry about, we are not in a position of being passed over. OKLAHOMA will eventually be part of a super conference for football. In fact I think that eventually football only conferences will come into being and other sports (except mens hoops) will play a more regional schedule because it makes sense moneywise. Going independant is not a good idea for OU or Texas because it makes the season a national championship or bust. How interesting would the OU OSU game last week have been without the added excitement of having the possibility of a conference title on the line? It certainly was a great game, but the stakes are what made it special. The reason the new Big 10-2 will fail is that the "north schools" are interesting and playing 4 instead of 3 of them per year is not good for TV ratings. We had the best of it in the big 12 south...we had "marquee" games like OU-Tech/AM/UT/OSU and UT vs the same...now we have to add an extra ISU or KU on the schedule which adds nothing. Nebraska got screwed in the Big 12...they lost OU-NU and had no real rivalry and only got 3 big 12 south teams per season. If by some miracle the Big 12-2 can get ND and BYU...then it lives otherwise it's just a matter of time. Either way OU will be fine. At the moment the only thing that worries me in the short term is how good OU is going to be the next few years and getting passed over for the BCS title game due to a weak conference. Hopefully the aggressive Non-con schedule that our AD has in place will overcome that.

[3rdgensooner]

BYU won't play basketball on Sunday.

[LiveLaughLove]

David Boren won't split the two. His sons political ambitions would be killed if his dad split the two schools.

Personally I think it would help the state to have two schools in two conferences. Would bring in more tourism but OSU wouldn't like it and so their fans wouldn't. So we are screwed being tied to them all for political reasons.

Boren may have the political power to buck the legislature except for the fact that it is his idea to not split them!

I like Boren as OU president but he didn't put OU first in this last summer. He put politics first and the school will not be the better for it down the road.

Texas gets more power. We get less.

[silverwheels]

As long as we are tied to OSU, I think we are screwed. The State of Oklahoma brings little appeal to marketers, only 2.5 million people or slightly smaller than Houston. However, when you say OU football, you have one of the strongest brands in college football. OSU fans don't get it--the put down OU for having a lot of fans who didn't go to OU. This is a makreters dream, only a few schools have a lot of fans who didn't go to school there,
OU, Notre Dame, USC and tOSU. OU brings a lot to the advertisers table, OSU very little. Let the little brother fend for himself.

OU MBA 1969

The state of Oklahoma actually has about 3.7 million people. Still not a lot, though.

[beegee]

Dan Beebe dropped the ball, once again. He already had 2 teams leave his conference. After keeping the Big 12 (10) together, he should have done more to bring additional teams in. The current upcoming formula isn't going to be enough for sustained success.

On who those teams would be, I don't know. But the people in charge of the Big 12 get paid enough to figure that out.


^this^

[ouwasp]

As long as we are tied to OSU, I think we are screwed. The State of Oklahoma brings little appeal to marketers, only 2.5 million people or slightly smaller than Houston. However, when you say OU football, you have one of the strongest brands in college football. OSU fans don't get it--the put down OU for having a lot of fans who didn't go to OU. This is a makreters dream, only a few schools have a lot of fans who didn't go to school there,
OU, Notre Dame, USC and tOSU. OU brings a lot to the advertisers table, OSU very little. Let the little brother fend for himself.

OU MBA 1969

Amen... leave them in the dust and don't schedule the pokes as a non-conf either......they would dry up and die w/o a reason (beating OU) to exist

[soonerbub]

Cinco that's an interesting article. Personally I don't see OU ever joining the SEC because Oklahoma just doesn't fit w the "old south".

The hilarious part is that texass just shot themselves in the foot this year by going 5-7. If they struggle on the field the next 2 years they lose all of their so-called leverage and bet your *** :mack: knows it.

All the money in the world can't buy texass wins (just like the Dallas Cowboys)

[SoonerMom2]

Boren actually entertained the SEC this summer and that would have been without OSU. Why should we be tied to them. After it was all over, OSU thanked Texas not us for keeping them in the loop. Dan Boren is not going to lose as long as he wants to stay in the House in that district. Don't think he can win as a Democrat statewide for Senate so unless he switches parties OU going on our own is a mute point. There is zero reason to be tied to OSU who has zero respect for OU and spouts it all over the place.

[oudivesherpa]

The state of Oklahoma actually has about 3.7 million people. Still not a lot, though.

Sorry, I was using old data. Houston MSA is 3.9 million and Texas is 24.8 Million. The point is that OU football has a great Brand, a strong draw, regarless of who they are playing a Brand as strong as if not stronger than Texas which has six times the population. If your a college football fan, but not a fan of a Big XII team you are more likely to watch a OU game than any other Big XII school. Notre Dame sucks, but they still have a strong Brand. OU Brand overcomes the small Oklahoma population, Oklahoma State does not. When OSU fans say to OU fans, "did you even go to school there" They make my point,OU draw is greater than it's alumni base. OSU is a State Marketing power (albeit second ranked) while OU is a national power!

[silverwheels]

True, and people also like to hate OU because they ain't OU, so they'll watch just to see us lose.

[Big D Sooner]

What about the Big X? We don't need to be in the same conference as Texas to recruit Texas well (see the 1940s through the 1990s). Do you honestly think Texas would refuse to play us if we left the Big XII? No, is the answer. We could follow Nebraska, renew an old rivalry, and be in a conference that fits our style more. I agree, OU is not an "old South" type of university. We have a Midwestern mentality with a Midwestern coach.

[Big D Sooner]

By the way, before anyone flips their shi* (which always happens), I am just trying to think a little outside the box instead of focusing of the SEC as the only option.

[dvdcrr]

The Big 12 will last forever unless you all decide to quit letting Texas dictate the terms.
But you won't, and bigger money is out there... Big 12 is done in less than five. You can't sit idly by and let Tex get rich off your azz. I see Oklahoma in a super conference somewhere in the Southeast. Keep lookin for that bigfoot Spooners

[mdklatt]

Will the name change? (I mean really, the "Big 10" with 12 teams and the
"Big 12" with 10? That's too dumb even for the NCAA.)


Back in the day I thought the Big 12 should have been named the Great Plains Conference. It still works, except kinda sorta for Mizzou. But **** Mizzou.

[bluedogok]

The part I don't understand is how exposure to the big coastal media markets is what is driving this.

I live on the east coast and these people don't care about college football. Their teams are the Patriots/Giants/Jets/Eagles/Redskins. What is the point of having big markets if people in those same markets don't watch your product?
It doesn't have anything to do with actual viewers, it has to do with potential viewers, that is what the networks are hoping to sell ads. To the commercial buyers that is how they are selling it to media buyers.

[Octavian]

add BYU and ND to the Big XII and you have most of the Mormons, Catholics and Baptists with a conference to religiously root for.



If by some miracle the Big 12-2 can get ND and BYU...then it lives otherwise it's just a matter of time.


This. Give it a shot.


Notre Dame can't stay independent throughout the 21st century. They're now just simply at a structural economic disadvantage as an independent in the Rust Belt.


The Big XII-II could offer them something the Big Ten+2 never could --what they want most --to keep feeling special. We could grant them a football-only "affiliate status" if they don't want to be formal members. They can keep all their other sports in the Big East if they want. They can keep their NBC deal too. Welcome to the Free Market conference.


They'd have access to the Sun Belt and Texas recruiting, something that would further separate them from their Rust Belt neighbors. And they'd become regulars in a region where the Catholic population is exploding -- a whole new slew of potential die hard Catholic consumers just waiting to fall in love with Notre Dame.



Go after Notre Dame regardless of how insane it sounds on the surface. BYU is waiting patiently by the phone. They're ready to join yesterday. But if Notre Dame even entertained the idea, other things would open up. Suddenly, Arkansas would probably be on the table too. Yes, it's crazy. But this isn't 1975. TCU just joined the Big East. ND can't stay independent forever and joining the Big Ten would just make them Purdue. It's worth a shot.

[picasso]

The Big 12 will last forever unless you all decide to quit letting Texas dictate the terms.
But you won't, and bigger money is out there... Big 12 is done in less than five. You can't sit idly by and let Tex get rich off your azz. I see Oklahoma in a super conference somewhere in the Southeast. Keep lookin for that bigfoot Spooners

Do some more research.

[MeMyself&Me]

This. Give it a shot.


Notre Dame can't stay independent throughout the 21st century. They're now just simply at a structural economic disadvantage as an independent in the Rust Belt.


The Big XII-II could offer them something the Big Ten+2 never could --what they want most --to keep feeling special. We could grant them a football-only "affiliate status" if they don't want to be formal members. They can keep all their other sports in the Big East if they want. They can keep their NBC deal too. Welcome to the Free Market conference.


They'd have access to the Sun Belt and Texas recruiting, something that would further separate them from their Rust Belt neighbors. And they'd become regulars in a region where the Catholic population is exploding -- a whole new slew of potential die hard Catholic consumers just waiting to fall in love with Notre Dame.



Go after Notre Dame regardless of how insane it sounds on the surface. BYU is waiting patiently by the phone. They're ready to join yesterday. But if Notre Dame even entertained the idea, other things would open up. Suddenly, Arkansas would probably be on the table too. Yes, it's crazy. But this isn't 1975. TCU just joined the Big East. ND can't stay independent forever and joining the Big Ten would just make them Purdue. It's worth a shot.

This is what I've been saying. Notre Dame isn't as long a shot as others have said. As weak as the Big 12 looks right now, there's a lot for a Notre Dame to like about the unequal revenue sharing, keeping it's own network deal, having an easy north division to deal with, etc etc. It all benefits Notre Dame.

And once Notre Dame is on board, it changes the whole game and then the Big 12 is in a position of strength.

[TUSooner]

I don't think anyone has any right now, is the point I was making.....
Be of good cheer!

That's what I thought, and it's pretty pathetic that this conference is just drifting on the current waiting for other conferences to nibble away at its teams.

And I will be cheery - because there's Only One OU! :D

[TUSooner]

How do OU fans feel about going to the SEC?

I think I'd prefer going West. But I wouldn't fuss about being in the SEC (especially if we could regularly kick the snot out of LSU. :D )

[lexred]

I think most folks don't seem to realize that the old "rich get richer" movement wil eventually get Congress into the mix. Now, that is a terrible thought, but if you remember there have been noises made in the past. The idea that you can just let a lot of state universities twist in the wind while the "haves" dictate the terms will not sit well. Granted, if Congress gets involved they will mess things up big time, but look at the various ideas of so called super conferences and you will see a lot of state universities not being mentioned. That will get a lot of unwanted attention.

[King Barry's Back]

Dan Beebe dropped the ball, once again. He already had 2 teams leave his conference. After keeping the Big 12 (10) together, he should have done more to bring additional teams in. The current upcoming formula isn't going to be enough for sustained success.

On who those teams would be, I don't know. But the people in charge of the Big 12 get paid enough to figure that out.

It is a little upsetting to see TCU leave for the Big East, when we could have picked them up. I don't feel like it would have been a great addition (especially outside of football), but it could have been a start.

Praise goes to Pac 10 and Big 10 commissioners for stealing away our teams. The Big 12 should have been more agressive.


Dan Beebe dropped the ball, once again. He already had 2 teams leave his conference. After keeping the Big 12 (10) together, he should have done more to bring additional teams in.

DAN BEEBE IS NOT A BOSS. HE WORKS FOR BOSSES FROM (formerly 12) 10 SCHOOLS - THE ADS AND PRESIDENTS. IN FACT, WE NOW KNOW HE WORKS FOR BOSSES FROM ONE SCHOOL, LOCATED IN AUSTIN, TX. BEEBE DIDN'T "KEEP" THE CONFERENCE TOGETHER. THE SCHOOL IN AUSTIN, AIDED AND ABETTED BY OU, DID SO.


The current upcoming formula isn't going to be enough for sustained success. THAT'S PURELY YOUR OPINION.

On who those teams would be, I don't know. But the people in charge of the Big 12 get paid enough to figure that out.

It is a little upsetting to see TCU leave for the Big East, when we could have picked them up. I don't feel like it would have been a great addition (especially outside of football), but it could have been a start. TCU WOULD DEFINITELY NOT HAVE BEEN A GREAT ADDITION. IN FACT, THEY WOULD BE A SUBTRACTION. TCU WOULD GENERATE NO TV REVENUE FOR THE LEAGUE. WE ALREADY HAVE FOUR TEXAS TEAMS. THEY WOULD SIMPLY TAKE A SHARE FROM US AND THE REST OF THE LEAGUE.

Praise goes to Pac 10 and Big 10 commissioners for stealing away our teams. The Big 12 should have been more agressive. AGGRESSIVE IN WHAT? KEEPING THEM? OU AND TX STAND TO EARN MORE MONEY WITH THEM GONE. THAT'S OK BY ME.

[King Barry's Back]

This is what I've been saying. Notre Dame isn't as long a shot as others have said. As weak as the Big 12 looks right now, there's a lot for a Notre Dame to like about the unequal revenue sharing, keeping it's own network deal, having an easy north division to deal with, etc etc. It all benefits Notre Dame.

And once Notre Dame is on board, it changes the whole game and then the Big 12 is in a position of strength.

If ND were a possibility, I would agree 100% with you. The main obstacle, however, is ND's own reluctance to join a conference -- even if it means significantly more money. If that reluctance ever changes, they are a game changer for the Big XII.

[King Barry's Back]

withdrawn post. but it still counts!

[bigfatjerk]

I think most folks don't seem to realize that the old "rich get richer" movement wil eventually get Congress into the mix. Now, that is a terrible thought, but if you remember there have been noises made in the past. The idea that you can just let a lot of state universities twist in the wind while the "haves" dictate the terms will not sit well. Granted, if Congress gets involved they will mess things up big time, but look at the various ideas of so called super conferences and you will see a lot of state universities not being mentioned. That will get a lot of unwanted attention.

Are you kidding me? Have you seen what congress has been trying to do the last few decades? They basically promote the rich getting richer.

[OUinFLA]

Let Congress get involved,
we can have a Red Conference, a Blue Conference. 20 teams each.
and then a Green Conference -anyone else who can field a team and has use of a stadium.

The party in charge of the House is the home team.
Big Government = the answer.

:rolleyes:

[soonervegas]

Texas goes independent in 4 years. OU might......

But probably ends up in the Pac 16 with the Pokes

Either option is perfectly fine with me.

[LiveLaughLove]

Independence is a killer, just look at ND. It is antiquated thinking. It's heyday has come and gone. ND cuts off it's nose to spite it's face with it's arrogant "we're independent" crud.

Boren is the reason we have to take OSU with us wherever we go. He stated it himself. His sons ambitions are much higher than a congressional district in timbucktoo. Of course Boren played with the idea of the sec. But without OSU it wasn't happening. Too bad too. It was the thing Texas feared the most.

If we could get ND and BYU, that might save this league. I don't see more than a 5% chance of that. ND saw the weakness in our commissioner and the power Texas wields. I don't think anyone wants to join that mess.

This conference is dead. Texas was the biggest benefactor from it's formation, and it has killed it. They are the scorpion on the frogs back.

It's what they do.

[sooner n houston]

Or, Texas already has a deal worked out with ND and BYU. Just waiting for the right time to spring it on the unwashed masses!

[MeMyself&Me]

ND saw the weakness in our commissioner and the power Texas wields. I don't think anyone wants to join that mess.

Actually, Texas AD and Notre Dame AD are said to be quite close. I know the ND AD isn't the one that makes the final say but you got to think he's got quite a bit of sway with those that do.

[TopDawg]

I hope all of the religiously-affiliated schools form their own conferences. Let 'em battle it out on the field week-in and week-out.

Baylor, BYU, Notre Dame, Rice, SMU, TCU...according to this website (http://www.campuscorner.com/religious-affiliations.htm), Duke, Tulsa and Boston College all qualify. That gives us half of a super-conference. Are there others I'm forgetting? Is Vandy one? Rice? Temple should be. Maybe Southern Nazarene can move up into D-1.